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The internet marketing niche has to start taking responsibility

by jamawebinc
25 replies
The internet marketing niche has a reputation for having many scams in it.

Some people in the market get very defensive when this is brought up, but here is one of the big reasons for this that the internet marketing community must start taking responsibility for.

The "deadline" that is not real.

Going through my emails recently I checked some that I hadn't opened for weeks.
There were some new product launches going on recently by bigger names in the market and many of the emails had deadlines in them of differing types.

You know..."last chance" - "Closes in 12 hours" etc.
Then, sometimes the "re-open" emails come for another "limited time only" are sent as well.

Well, when I went to the order page days, if not weeks, after the supposed deadline the offer was still available and I could have ordered the products.

If I could order after the deadline that was emphasized so much, I am left to conclude that the deadline was not real. Either that or the marketer just happened to forget to change the page or put the "sold out" sign on the page.

I could believe the latter....if it happened once.

But, this is not an isolated incident. It happens - from the same people - over and over again.

When people see a deadline, and after the deadline passes the offer is still available, people can get the impression they have been lied to or manipulated, and rightly so.

Until people in the niche start to take responsibility for this - the niche will suffer with a bad reputation and have problems with things like bans from google adwords, merchant accounts putting tighter restrictions on sites like these and so forth.
#internet #marketing #niche #responsibility #start #taking
  • Profile picture of the author AndrewStark
    Well said, but the only way it will stop is when conversions drop.

    Also it's the people at the top who are selling this crap method as the reason for their success that means it filters down as fact, and the blind herd will follow without question. I mean I've just paid "Guru X" a lot of money, if I don't follow this advice I won't become the overnight success that the salespage promised.

    As long as newbies come along and fall for it, then it will continue. Sad but true.
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    • Profile picture of the author shane_k
      Originally Posted by AndrewStark View Post

      Well said, but the only way it will stop is when conversions drop.

      Also it's the people at the top who are selling this crap method as the reason for their success that means it filters down as fact, and the blind herd will follow without question. I mean I've just paid "Guru X" a lot of money, if I don't follow this advice I won't become the overnight success that the salespage promised.

      As long as newbies come along and fall for it, then it will continue. Sad but true.
      I find it funny how everyone always wants to point the blame at "Guru's"

      I don't think it has to do with the so called Guru's selling crap, I think it has more to do with the their students who buy their stuff not really understanding those tactics and strategies well enough to implement them properly.

      Like I said above, if you tell your customers that they better buy your product within the next 3 days because you are pulling it off the market, and in 3 days you keep your promise and no one can buy it anymore, then how is that a scam?

      The problem comes in when someone doesn't know what they are doing, or maybe they do and their actions are not congruent with what they are saying. They tell their list that they better buy the product within 3 days but after 3 days the product is still available.

      Is that the "Guru's" fault?

      No

      That is that individual marketers fault for misleading his own customers.

      EDIT: Just want to add, that if you do hear someone tell you to purposefully mislead your own customers, then run the other way. They are definately not someone to follow.

      And if you do mislead your own customers "because they told you to" and because "if I don't follow this advice I won't become the overnight success that the salespage promised." then that is your fault and you should take responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming the Guru who told you to mislead them, because it still comes down to your choice to follow that advice or not.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

        The internet marketing niche has a reputation for having many scams in it.

        [snip]

        Until people in the niche start to take responsibility for this - the niche will suffer with a bad reputation and have problems with things like bans from google adwords, merchant accounts putting tighter restrictions on sites like these and so forth.
        "The Internet marketing niche?" Really?

        How do you propose that "people in the niche" start taking responsibility?

        The only thing you can take responsibility for is yourself and your actions.

        If Joe Guru or Willard Wannabe wants to use phony scarcity tactics, or any other questionable/shady methods, there's not much the rest of us can do to stop them, except not buy the products or services offered.

        These soap box rants sound good and they do tend to get a reaction, but they about as much effect on things as a popcorn fart in a hurricane. The scammers will continue to scam, the cheaters will continue to cheat, and people will continue to rant that someone has to change things.
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        • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post


          These soap box rants sound good and they do tend to get a reaction, but they about as much effect on things as a popcorn fart in a hurricane. The scammers will continue to scam, the cheaters will continue to cheat, and people will continue to rant that someone has to change things.
          Of course it won't do any good.

          But, it's a discussion forum...so I started a discussion about an observation I made.
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

            Of course it won't do any good.

            But, it's a discussion forum...so I started a discussion about an observation I made.
            And I followed it with my own observation...

            Last time I looked, discussion took more than one person. And you've been around long enough to know how this particular line of discussion would likely turn out.

            As an acquaintance of mine likes to say, "I got no beef with you, man."
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        • Profile picture of the author Ali Rangwala
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          "The Internet marketing niche?" Really?

          How do you propose that "people in the niche" start taking responsibility?

          The only thing you can take responsibility for is yourself and your actions.

          If Joe Guru or Willard Wannabe wants to use phony scarcity tactics, or any other questionable/shady methods, there's not much the rest of us can do to stop them, except not buy the products or services offered.

          These soap box rants sound good and they do tend to get a reaction, but they about as much effect on things as a popcorn fart in a hurricane. The scammers will continue to scam, the cheaters will continue to cheat, and people will continue to rant that someone has to change things.
          Very true. The problem isn't specific to any particular group of business people, it's not even a general business problem, it's a human problem.

          Employing deception for the sake of gain is a ubiquitous practice among human beings, it is down to the individual to overcome this innate tendency.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    It's all sales pitch and it's not just in internet marketing this happens. In the real world too, companies tell you the sale is for a limited time only or a product us reduced from $100 to $20. It was never $100 in the first place.
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  • Profile picture of the author sirtiman
    Just think this, It's time for you to be a good guy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    Do the right thing, and lead the way.

    I blame bright shiny object syndrome.

    Most marketers believe they are "one step away" from the magic bullet.

    Unfortunately, many wolves take advantage of that notion.

    But remember, that's advantageous for those who offer value, to the business and lives of their prospects.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Franklin
    jamawebinc....

    You bring up a good point...You start to get jaded with the whole scarcity tactic that you see in emails. It's not just email and it's not just in IM....If you look at a lot of non-IM product sales pages (such as on Clickbank), you will see lots of wording that implies that the pricing is time-sensitive and/or when you click away and you read the time-sensitive pricing content on an exit popup.

    It's been happening for a long time....You and I who have been in IM long enough find it ineffective but I would bet that a lot of the newcomers fall for the scarcity tactic because, well, they just haven't seen it enough!
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    • Profile picture of the author kimkitch
      Unfortunately in this day and age and the way the economy is, there will be many more new people looking to find a way of raising quick cash. This is why the the product sellers offering to ease their worries will always use the time sensitive method on the sales page.

      The trouble is that people get burnt and then stereotype all of the other internet marketers that actually have good products in the same bracket as scammers.
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  • Profile picture of the author shane_k
    I wouldn't say that "the deadline that is not real" is a scam.

    I think that the problem is not with the tactic itself but with people who are not using it properly.

    if you set a deadline and people can come back to the page a week or a month later and still get the product then of course that is going to affect your credibility.

    But if you set a deadline and stick to it, even though it might mean a little less money for you in the present, the next time you set a deadline and tell your list that the product is a deadline they will be way more responsive because they know that you mean it.

    Do this two or three times and your list will become highly responsive and take action the next time you set a deadline.

    But you have to follow through with your actions, not just your words.

    And I think that is where the problem comes in, is that alot of these people you are noticing are setting deadlines, limiting the number of products, but their actions are not following through with their words.

    and it is that inconsistency that is bothering you.

    but if I set a deadline and I mean it, and I follow through on my words with action and I pull the product from the market, thus keeping my promise, how is that a scam?

    yes I realize that there are real scams out there, but there is a difference between real scams, and people who don't fully understand a tactic and/or strategy, and they are using it wrong.
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    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
      Banned
      Originally Posted by shane_k View Post

      I wouldn't say that "the deadline that is not real" is a scam.

      I think that the problem is not with the tactic itself but with people who are not using it properly.
      But if you set a deadline and stick to it, even though it might mean a little less money for you in the present, the next time you set a deadline and tell your list that the product is a deadline they will be way more responsive because they know that you mean it.
      If you set a deadline and stick to it, that's not a deadline that is not real, is it? It is, in fact, a deadline that IS real.

      Like I said above, if you tell your customers that they better buy your product within the next 3 days because you are pulling it off the market, and in 3 days you keep your promise and no one can buy it anymore, then how is that a scam?
      It's not. But no one said it was. The OP made clear he was talking about people who have a bogus deadline that they aren't sticking to.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marcus Rockey
    Thanks for the thread!

    I have witnessed supposed deadlines since I started online too. Scarcity is one excellent tactic and certainly increases revenues.

    I agree that the market needs to take responsibility and live by their promises. I also agree that (as said by others) that it's the individuals who must start that process of being honest and up front.

    I've heard it said that an internet marketer (and any business person for that matter) should avoid doing anything that will tarnish their reputation. This is never more prominent for online marketers. Digging out of a "bad rep hole" is more difficult than starting fresh from the ground up.

    In my opinion it is morally questionable to create deadlines and not stand by them and shows a lack in their marketing skills or their belief in them or their belief in their products or services....

    So...

    What is the real benefit in creating a dead line?

    Creates urgency...
    Curiosity...
    Demand...

    and

    leaves you in a vulnerable position where threads like this arise.

    Does the difference in profit outweigh the affect on reputation?

    Currently I would say yes.

    Because...

    1. A large percentage of buyers are likely to be newcomers who either lack experience to ask the question "is the deadline real?" And many newcomers fall by the way side pretty quickly.

    2. Not enough people recognize the deadline as false, and if they do it is rarely challenged.

    I would like to say that I have a mentor/coach that is very well known and successful. He has spoke of the issues of living up to your promises and scarcity. This guy is one of the major Guru's of today and is ethically correct. While some may be morally questionable other are certainly not.

    Thanks

    Marcus Rockey
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  • Profile picture of the author IMSince2003
    There's two stores near me that have been going out of business for the last 10 years. One is a furniture store and the other is a Pakistani floor rug store.

    Honesty? Can this business even compare EVER with Wall Street? Enron? Madoff? C'mon, let's get real here...
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    What's the Internet Marketing niche? Did I miss something? Internet marketing is a practice that describes selling every conceivable product imaginable on the Internet. Niche? :rolleyes:

    How does a "concept" take responsibility?
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  • Profile picture of the author tylerjaysen
    was this a thread to complain about a sales letter having a deadline....or counter on it....really?

    ..I don't know what's more pathetic...someone who took the time to actually post about this....or me actually responding to the thread.....ughh...

    Listen.....get over it man....if you want to make money online...then there are some things you have to get used to....and scarcity tactics is one of them....they work....that's why you see them.

    ...is the timer pulling a fast one..??...Yeah maybe....but if the product is bad ass....and it will help you make money....then for gods sake,....buy it and take action to make money....instead of coming on here squeeling about how you don't like deadlines on sales pages...and that IMers need to take responsibility.

    ....the only person responsible for your success...or lack thereof....is YOU.
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    • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
      Originally Posted by tylerjaysen View Post

      was this a thread to complain about a sales letter having a deadline....or counter on it....really?
      No, that is not what this thread was about at all.

      This thread was about my opinion as to ONE reason why the IM niche has a bad reputation.

      A deadline is one of, if not THE most important part of the offer.

      That's nothing new. Retail stores have sales all the time. "This weekend only" etc.
      Supermarkets have sales - many times every week - "Ground chuck regularly 3.49 lb - this week only 2.49 lb"

      However, getting back to the reputation of the IM niche - or as I like to call it - the how to make money online niche -

      When you teach others how to sell their products and services and you teach people about the importance of a deadline but you then teach

      ...You have to come up with a reason for a deadline...

      How your reason must be genuine...

      When you teach that you have to be cool and not one of "those" type of marketers...

      But then your own deadline is not real (as well as the reason why) and you are among the top people in the IM niche for the last decade.

      Yes, that can raise questions and give the niche a bad reputation.

      I call bullshit

      What if it was taught in a more honest way?

      Like...

      "Look...you need a deadline man. You need to give people a reason to order now and a deadline of some type is THE best way to do this...bar none!

      Even if you don't keep the deadline...put one in your offer.

      It will be better for your credibility in the future if you do follow the deadline of course, but you must must must include it in every offer you make if you want to have more sales.

      Try to come up with a good sounding reason why you have the deadline. It doesn't have to be real, it only has to sound like it is.

      Some people may call it lying, some may call it a marketing tactic, it's all part of the game and you have to know how to play the game well if you want to make the most sales you can."
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  • Profile picture of the author IMSince2003
    Popcorn fart? Hurricane?
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  • Profile picture of the author PhilippaWrites
    I agree with the OP. If we then discover that that part of the sales pitch is a lie, we start to question what else is a lie.

    I was sent a link to a live webinar, starting in 10 minutes! Quick quick! I clicked the link, and the URL was whateveritwas.com/ARCHIVE/webinarreplay

    I didn't mind watching an old webinar - why lie to me and tell me it was live?! It just made me dismiss everything else that IM guy said (and caused me to unsub as a result).

    Telling the truth is not only the responsible and ethical thing to do, it also will pay dividends when our audience realise they can actually trust us.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    So, you're calling a bit of hype and scarcity a scam? That's pretty drastic. Takes a whole lot more than a little marketing trick for me to feel something is a scam. I feel scammed when I don't receive what I purchased, or someone steals something from me, or item isn't even close to what is described in the sales pitch.
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    • Profile picture of the author celente
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      So, you're calling a bit of hype and scarcity a scam? That's pretty drastic.
      sb is totally right, get with the program guy.

      Damn marketers right! YOu can whine all you want but at the end of the day, no matter who, what, where you are selling, remember you are FIRST a marketer of your business, not a sales man. Always have to remember that.

      Taking responsibilty, well this part has nothing to do with nothing....really, its not up to anyone to oversee this, so you sort of locked in a dark room screaming at no one.
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  • Profile picture of the author FIP
    Jamawebinc

    Well said. Its always good to see the responses, reactions and the discussion that results.

    Tolstoy once said that;
    "Everyone talks about changing the world, but nobody talks about changing himself"

    Thats always a balancing act in my view, as sometimes there is a need to move beyond yourself to try to make a difference or at least state what you think or see.

    I see the IM world as an enormous opportunity - and it keeps getting better because from my corner of the world i'm seeing a lot of things that aren't holding up or that are proving to be questionable.

    The fact is that there is a enormous conflict of interest with a lot of marketing and looking after your people or your list.

    All you can hope to do is go about your business in a way and manner that reflects and exudes ethics and genuine value adding and helping others.
    But of course it isn't that black and white because that assumes what others may want - or think they want.

    I guess though that ultimately if you are a certain type of operator with a certain type of message, you will attract similar types of people.

    The marketing now is getting much more savvy and sophisticated - but its still marketing.
    The longer you are in this the more it becomes apparent.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    Most people try to emulate the IM/MMO gurus and fail miserably. The "gurus" obviously know what they're doing, and the newbies try the same with great futility. The hype isn't going away anytime soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author therichb
    IM is still a hidden wealth creator for thousands of marketers, no one tells you the right way of their money making concept.

    Starting to find more new ways is good enough in the present times
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