Why Is It So Hard To Teach People How To Make $$$ ?

91 replies
Something I think about a lot are all the suffering newbies here on WF.

Like I always come on here to see threads from people where it seems like their lives are about to end. They say stuff like "my wife left me, I'm $70,000 in debt and about to lose my home... I need to make $!" How are we suppose to react to stuff like this? Just ignore it?

Then people actually come into those threads, and make 1 post explaining how these people can make $$$.

But there is a SERIOUS problem with this. The problem being, I have never read one post or idea, then went and made money with that idea. I'm sure there are experts who can, but I'm not an expert, nor is this thread targeted at those types.

Here is a hypothetical situation to consider.

Someone comes on here and asks how they can make money on clickbank. Alexa comes into the thread and drops a bunch of useful links for them.

So and so person respects her, so they use the links, and try to make money with clickbank... right up untill they fail miserably.

There always seems to be 1 major element missing in these situations. In this case, its Alexas brain. Imagine her brain like a pizza (I apologize if this offends you Alexa ).

To make money with that brain-pizza, you need the WHOLE PIE. The information you get, isn't even = to 1 piece of pie. Its like 1 piece thats been thrown into a blender, then the sauce is squeezed out on top of a spoon, and thats what you get to work with.

You still need her writing abilities, her sales abilities, her experience in dealing with people, all the failures shes made and learned from... there are so many other pieces to the pie that you will never get.

Not unless you COMMIT YOURSELF like she has. Or like any successful person has.

The reason I'm making this thread is I'm begining to notice how DIFFICULT it is to teach a newbie how to do what I do. And when I first started teaching people, I thought "this is the easiest thing in the world, so ANYONE should be able to learn it".

Kinda like you see that 1 line thrown around here all the time. "If I can do it, you can do it". Its something I've stopped saying because I've realized its simply NOT TRUE. Just because you can do something, does NOT mean the next person can.

So before you take any advice on here, really consider that fact. Its basic human nature. When you become good at ANYTHING, you always take for granted how much you REALLY know.

I think that is super important for both gurus and newbies to keep in mind. I ignorantly began talking about the fact that what I was doing was "super simple" to do. Untill I realized after weeks of coaching people (for free)... that its really NOT easy. I possess a unique set of skills I never realized I had. I guess they are a natural part of my personality, and I just expected other people to be the same way... which was really stupid.

This was also the reason I didn't want to charge for coaching my first time. I could always hear this question in the back of my mind. "How sure can I really be, that other people can do what I do?"

How sure can you be, that other people know what you know?
How sure can you be, that other people see the world like you?
How sure can you be, that your unique life experiences aren't the reason why you're so successful?
How sure can you be that your methods will REALLY work for other people?
How much do you ignore your own talents and advantages because $$$ wants you to believe you are like everyone else?

Do people not give themselves enough credit? All the gurus? All the successful people? Do they really have NO IDEA how advantaged they are?

I'm really curious how many gurus on here ignore these questions.

All I'm suggesting is that people think about these ideas in a realistic way. Sometimes if you REALLY want to be successful, you need to commit yourself 250% to modeling another persons LIFE. What they read, what they eat, what they talk about, every single little thing they do.

Does it sound obsessive/creepy? Probably. But do I think its the best way to learn? Absolutely. I have 1 guru who I stalk the hell out of on here. I even take advice about things that have NOTHING to do with money.

Its more about the mindset, HOW they think, WHY they make the decisions they do. What would YOU rather know? The details of how they make money, or the motivating forces that caused them to discover all those details in the first place?

This probably sounds like new age psychobabble for all I know.

If you're focused on 10 seperate gurus, its going to be damn impossible to model all their unique talents and abilities. People say you should absorb all the things that mesh with your invididual personality.

But do you have ANY IDEA how long this takes? And couldn't it be possible that your personality, and your way of viewing life, is the exact reason why you're failing?

Thats why if you want my honest advice, pick **1 guru**. Make damn sure that your guru is successful and knows what the hell they are doing.

Then become a monkey on that gurus back. If you don't like the label "guru", then lets just use the label "friend". Make 1 good friend on WF, someone who is willing to help you, then model that person like a son models their father. Or like a daughter models their mother.

I honestly believe you need this type of foundation to make money. Don't be overly passionate about too many ideas or people. Find someone or something you can truely relate to. One thing that will drive you right past the finish line.

I have NO IDEA if this is good advice. I'll be honest about that. But these types of thoughts go through my head everyday. So its open to criticism. Clarity is one of the hardest things to obtain in a world full of distraction. So I can't think of a much better way to gain clairity. I'm sure there are other ways, I just haven't found them yet.

-Red
#$$$ #impossible #make #people #teach
  • Profile picture of the author tylerjaysen
    yeah this is a good thread....and we all start out as newbies....

    ...I have found that in order to help a newbie....instead of holding their hand as we run across the finish line together.....

    .....it is much better to let them find out on their own. This is the true secret to making it online....if you're serious....then even as a newbie...you will find out what you need to do in order to be successful...

    ....the best thing to do when starting out....is find someone who is doing what you want to be doing...and do what they do...

    ...but also...you gotta go out and fail your way to success...and take action and learn all that you need to know to make sense of things online.

    Yeah you will choke here and there...but that is the point..and how it works...

    ...too many newbies try and get into making money online...like you say...when they're at the rock bottom and have no where else to turn...they read hype claims out there online...and see ..oh you too can make $15K by tmw....

    ....so they buy some crappy little product...spend maybe a few hours on trying to make it work...and when the cash isn't rolling in the next day...they get all frustrated and give up.
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  • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
    We all have our area of specialization and if am not a mentor there is no way i can spoon feed a newbie with my unprofessionalism.

    At most, the best thing one can do is to provide helpful link.

    From what i know, those who succeed and become what they are today learn to forge ahead on their own.

    When I was starting out I use to have a mentor that i always bombard with silly questions like how do i turn articles into PDF. He told me to only ask questions that can not be found easily and thought me how to use Google search and places like WF to quickly search for simple things like turning articles to PDF.

    I bet 95% of members here are not mentor or coach.

    Therefore, they do not have a ready made formula for newbie to success.

    My advice to newbie who can not hire a mentor or coach is to cut and join, ask, research, compare till you get there.
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  • Profile picture of the author ComicWarrior
    Well, you can find any kind of people...anyway you must be a great teacher, because you have to cover all the aspects of internet marketing. Expecially if you are talking to a newbie. I met a person who has been really kind with me. He spent many times on Skype in video chat teaching me a lot. Very useful!
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  • Profile picture of the author theory expert
    Banned
    A rhetorical question..

    I don't think no one person is made up of the same stuff I am therefore, there is no one person for me to model. Again, the variables to success is endless and I would never just follow one guru because me and that guru isn't the same in all aspects of mindset. Listening to a guru in matters unrelated to marketing would be foolish for me at best.

    Sounds good though and if it works for you then do it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Corey Geer
    The problem isn't why is it so hard to teach people how to make money, it's why is it so hard to get them to do anything?

    Several useful launches and products come and go without making any more successful stories. A lot of people have implemented this idea into their head that internet marketing should be like clicking a button and money just starts flowing into your account.

    Once they realize it's not that easy, they simply throw the product away, or store it on their hard drive and onto the next one!

    I really believe teaching people something is easy, but getting them to actually do anything is hard.

    It's not for everyone. Some people aren't meant to be on the computer the majority of the time or be their own boss. Some people need that structure, that client telling them what to do or that guiding hand to tell them exactly what to do via a job.

    The majority of the new people I meet give up within a month or within purchasing a few articles because they're now broke and realize making money online isn't as fast as it should be for them.

    They always say you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but I disagree with that. You can teach an old dog any trick you want to teach them but getting them to do it is the real trick.

    Corey
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  • Profile picture of the author FIP
    Redshifted

    Thats a quality post and no its not some new age hocus pocus...imo at least. It shows you think and that you feel.

    Heres a couple of quotes that further reflect my thoughts on this:

    "You don't get what you want. You get what you are."
    -Wayne Dyer.

    "No one save us but ourselves;
    No one can and no one may,
    We ourselves must walk the path,
    Teachers merely show the way."
    -Nancy Wilson Ross


    "Trust is imperative. It does not verify itself with a verbal recommendation or assurance - its demonstrated with action and intent."
    - Me

    IM (and life) is littered with questionable characters. Its also an opportunity to seek out the right people and the right information.

    Build relationships. Build trust. Add value. Do it from the heart as well as the head - have the right intentions.

    If you are going to work with ANYONE...get a feel for who they 'are'...not who they say they are.

    It may take a little time...in many instances it doesn't
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    "If one advances confidently in the direction of his own dreams and endeavours to live the life which he has imagined - he will meet a success unexpected in common hours"
    -Thoreau

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  • Profile picture of the author IMSince2003
    That is exactly why I got into coaching. I've written a ton of ebooks both for my own sites and for other people to sell. When I get inquiries from people trying to put the system into practice, I never cease to be astonished by their interpretation of my presentation. It's like comparing the living person to their photo. So, you are right, those one liners are not helpful. On the other hand, when I was really new, years ago, I did try out the advice of fellow warriors and DID figure it out. Yes, I failed a whole LOT while doing it and so will the newbie who just started their journey. You must balance time and money. To shorten the time spent you spend more money. To save money, you expend more of your time learning. You must decide where to strike the balance.
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  • Honestly, nothing will ever help a newbie other than just having the reason to just start doing the work. There are many products and systems out there what work and have created a lot of success for different people with different strengths and areas of specialty.

    Remember though 'help' is a two-way street and you can't help those who don't wanna help themselves.
    Even if you give someone a clear cut blueprint and system to follow that's made $x in x months, people will often quit if they don't make it on the first try. Or second try. Or third.

    Spoon feeding newbies isn't going to help em as much as it is going to detriment them. Remember Frank Kern's two commandments. Don't f*** around (means, stop wasting time buying product to product, not doing anything about it and complaining to others at forums and actually do the work) and don't be a p***y (means, have the guts to take a risk and invest in actual marketing and dont be afraid to fail a few times).
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    • Profile picture of the author MasterBox
      Originally Posted by Michaelangelo Flores View Post

      Honestly, nothing will ever help a newbie other than just having the reason to just start doing the work. There are many products and systems out there what work and have created a lot of success for different people with different strengths and areas of specialty.

      Remember though 'help' is a two-way street and you can't help those who don't wanna help themselves.
      Even if you give someone a clear cut blueprint and system to follow that's made in x months, people will often quit if they don't make it on the first try. Or second try. Or third.

      Spoon feeding newbies isn't going to help em as much as it is going to detriment them. Remember Frank Kern's two commandments. Don't f*** around (means, stop wasting time buying product to product, not doing anything about it and complaining to others at forums and actually do the work) and don't be a p***y (means, have the guts to take a risk and invest in actual marketing and dont be afraid to fail a few times).
      I remember back when I was a newbie, and how I wished I had someone to yes "hold" my hand and say follow my steps and do exactly as I do. Otherwise we all know the so called "gurus" out there (that includes ALL the well know ones) will NEVER give you everything to achieve success, its their way to make more money off someone which FRANKLY I find that to be pittyful preying on people that really are trying to earn a few extra dollars to get by, but rather is stolen from the greedy guru that claims success due to having such good copywriter!
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  • Profile picture of the author RPaige
    I 100% agree with FIP about getting a feel for who they are when it comes to who you want to work with. So many people look at IM in such an odd way. If you were to begin a new job at a new company, you would expect to take some time and figure out how the company works, what your job actually entails, and learn how you need to perform that job within that company environment.

    I look at IM, or any business for that matter, in the same way. It takes time, energy, work, and lots of learning. I also believe that personality has a great deal to do with your success than most would admit to. I know many people who would not have the discipline to put in the hours unless they were specifically being told to do so.

    Just my 2 cents!
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  • I find that people don't follow through. You can practically hand it to them on a silver platter and they still won't do it.
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  • Profile picture of the author TeamBringIt
    It all comes down to skills and taking action. People can post methods for noobies but most do not have the skills, to make the method work 100%. Even, if they did have the skills, most will not take action and will just jump to another plan and then another plan.

    Making money, is all about having a good system in place and taking massive action and making that system work for you.
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    • Profile picture of the author fin
      TL;DR

      But here's a quick opinion,

      I spoke about this with Richard V the other day. Some people will 'make it' no matter what happens. They have something in their head that takes 10,000 pieces of advice and sh1ts (it's over 18's now, does that mean we can swear ) out the right answer.

      Others will need mentoring and spooned the answer. I tiny percentage might not even make it with that.

      People are being told the wrong things. Giving people advice will only help the people who would have 'made it' anyway.

      People need to start teaching something else that I can't put my finger on.
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  • Profile picture of the author Isaiah Jackson
    Holy Cow!!! Talk about one of the most influential posts I have read here in a very long time. This goes a long a freemium I made a few months back called "The Newbie Mistake" where I talked about close to the same thing.

    The example I used was the following:

    Person A: Tells you to do affiliate marketing so you try that and make $1,000 in one month.

    Person B: Tells you, that you should be doing some stuff with Adsense and you manage to make only $200 in 6 months.

    Based on the following who would you most likely ask for advice. If you are like me then you would go to person A for advice on anything or at least Affiliate Marketing.

    With that said fantastic post Red, makes a whole lot of sense.

    - Isaiah Jackson
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    Controversial Free Report Reveals - Cutting Edged Strategy That Made $1,448 In 28 Days From A Tiny List Of 188 Subscribers. - Click Here For More Info
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  • Profile picture of the author Charles AK
    People don't wan't to learn things for them selfs, they expect people to show them the ropes when they could easily find the same information doing a simple google search, you can't teach people that don't want to learn, you could give someone valuable information that could make them a million dollars richer and they will never take the challenge.

    it amazes me how many WSO's people buy and never even look at, they are just wasting their money if they don't take action.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by freevideosforlife View Post

      it amazes me how many WSO's people buy and never even look at, they are just wasting their money if they don't take action.
      Most people don't want a business. They want to be entertained with the fantasy of owning a business. That WSO is like a PPV movie to them. They pay $5 or $7 or $10 so they can have a pleasant fantasy for a few hours and escape from reality. And if you get what you pay for, that's not really a waste of money.
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      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        Most people don't want a business. They want to be entertained with the fantasy of owning a business. That WSO is like a PPV movie to them. They pay $5 or $7 or $10 so they can have a pleasant fantasy for a few hours and escape from reality. And if you get what you pay for, that's not really a waste of money.
        This is the truth.

        Once they see how much work is involved, they get antsy and start looking for something else immediately.
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      • Profile picture of the author mmntv
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        Most people don't want a business. They want to be entertained with the fantasy of owning a business. That WSO is like a PPV movie to them. They pay $5 or $7 or $10 so they can have a pleasant fantasy for a few hours and escape from reality. And if you get what you pay for, that's not really a waste of money.
        Yeah, this pretty much sums it up right here. People want to "buy the dream", they don't want to create the dream, because they are lazy and don't want to think for themselves.

        The folks who are self motivated will buy that WSO and integrate the concepts into their ongoing marketing efforts and continue adding revenue streams and building their empire.
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      • Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        Most people don't want a business. They want to be entertained with the fantasy of owning a business. That WSO is like a PPV movie to them. They pay $5 or $7 or $10 so they can have a pleasant fantasy for a few hours and escape from reality. And if you get what you pay for, that's not really a waste of money.
        This is EXACTLY what I've been saying for years.

        Most people coming into the Make Money Online arena are not really looking to actually create and grow a business (and all the hard work associated with it). They just want a quick fix of the ole good "what if I won the lottery" high. They get entertained by it for a few minutes/days/weeks, and then they move on to the next thing.

        That's why it's so difficult to teach newbies: because 90% of newbies don't truly mean business.
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      • Profile picture of the author IMSince2003
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        Most people don't want a business. They want to be entertained with the fantasy of owning a business. That WSO is like a PPV movie to them. They pay $5 or $7 or $10 so they can have a pleasant fantasy for a few hours and escape from reality. And if you get what you pay for, that's not really a waste of money.
        That's really insightful. I never heard it quite put that way before. It really makes a lot of sense viewed that way. The reader imagines all the profit that they can make and feels really good for a while. Once that initial blush is gone, they go buy another WSO and start the feel good feelings all over again.
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    I can answer this in 6 simple words....

    "They....Won't.....Get.....Off.....Their....AS S!"
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  • Profile picture of the author O0o0O
    Much of what you say makes sense, but I disagree on the monkey-see-monkey-do mentality. Although it is beneficial to copy what works, it is even more important to educate yourself as well, especially in this fast-paced ever-changing world.

    With that said, the top three reasons I can think of why it is so hard to teach people how to make money (or how do anything for that matter) are:

    1. The teacher doesn't know how to teach.
    2. The student doesn't know how to learn.
    3. The student chooses not to learn.

    Once the "gurus" reach the top and become successful, chances are no one has taught them how to teach the students. Remember the "teach a man to fish" quote? Here it is:

    If you give a man a fish, then he will eat for a day.
    If you teach a man how to fish, then he will eat for a lifetime.

    And my addition to that is:
    If you teach a man how to teach others how to fish, then perhaps the world will eat for a lifetime.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    Most people want the magic bullet, and are unwilling to put in work.



    "It's hard to work with people who don't want to work"-bobby the brain
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    It's because people aren't willing to try stuff... Like, take an idea and run with it, make changes and test until it works. Everyone thinks if you follow something without thinking on your own that it will work then give up after 2 days.

    The truth is everyone makes small changes to things without realizing it just by decisions they make. Therefore, you have to pick a method and run with it and like I said make changes and keep track if it's improving results, making it worse or making no change at all.

    The reason people don't want to put in the work is because they are lazy... It's a lot of work to run an online business and get it to the point of making money and most people don't want to do that.
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  • Profile picture of the author FIP
    Seems to me a lot of people try to create a business in IM by telling other people to do exactly the same as they do to be successful.

    Whilst it sounds compelling...there is a very real presence of a conflict of interest there.

    Some who label themselves as coaches are not coaching...they are upselling information. They are taking advantage of a generic title that suggests they have their clients best interests at heart.
    These people are not coaches in my opinion. They are sales people. Some do not have the level of awareness or training (and training can be from any number of areas) to help that information they are selling to be fully appreciated and absorbed by the client/student....into knowledge and awareness.

    In other words theres a skill set missing and that can be critical in relation to people getting the message.

    Is it a coaches job to upsell to an unsuspecting client? Is it a coaches role to deliberately lead a client towards more upsells?

    Its a fine line. If there is value there and a transparent relationship then I think thats fine.

    But thats just my opinion based on my values and approach. I appreciate the IM world is made up of many people and approaches.

    I think before many assume the role/moniker of a coach they need to understand what that entails...and...ensure the client/student knows what that is.

    Of course there are coaches and there are coaches....and there are experts and there are experts.

    IM enables many to assume a role. In so many ways its like a movie set. Take a role, learn your lines and go from there.

    Trouble is once you are around long enough you realise the movie you are watching is a re-run with the same old roles regurgitated by new actors.

    Coaches or actors?...

    Experts...or experts at becoming an expert?

    Its alarming at times to see some very inexperienced people setting themselves up as experts based on information they were able to obtain to assume that mantle.

    Can you add real value?
    Are you really interested in doing that?

    Ironically it is often the less heralded who can offer the best outcomes and value because they are coaches first and salespeople second.
    Big $$$ and big ticket items are not always the best options - particularly for new players.

    That said, IM is primarily about selling so that needs to be understood in the equation.

    Gets complicated
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    -Thoreau

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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    There is such a learning curve to get into for newbies online. They have to learn how to create product, bonuses, copywriting, marketing, etc. That's why most start off with affiliate marketing. But even so still, you can show someone your EXACT model of how you make money with affiliate marketing, and then they'll still not do anything except waste your time with more questions - and know implementation.
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  • Profile picture of the author hustlinsmoke
    I found out along time ago with myself and the ones I helped that information overload is usually the culprit that slows a person down. They start to do one thing and while researching stumble upon something else that intriques them.

    So now its my job to keep them on track and to finish what they start, so I lay out lessons for them, Make sure they have a plan to follow and make sure they do the homework. If they have time left they can play but they finished there chores that were assigned to them.

    I know I sort of put that in school terms and kid's terms, but sometimes we need a heavy hand to stay focused and keep pushing forward.
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    • Profile picture of the author madelyndon
      Originally Posted by hustlinsmoke View Post

      I found out along time ago with myself and the ones I helped that information overload is usually the culprit that slows a person down. They start to do one thing and while researching stumble upon something else that intriques them.

      So now its my job to keep them on track and to finish what they start, so I lay out lessons for them, Make sure they have a plan to follow and make sure they do the homework. If they have time left they can play but they finished there chores that were assigned to them.

      I know I sort of put that in school terms and kid's terms, but sometimes we need a heavy hand to stay focused and keep pushing forward.
      You really summed it up for me there! I can't speak for all newbies, but I know for myself it has nothing to do with being lazy and not wanting to take action. It was just focusing on one thing and not getting distracted. For example, I first started a blog and I was working a lot on creating content and updating the look of it. I would come on here and read something about website security, or backing up my blog and it would get me thinking, "wait, what about security and where do I backup my blog?" So, although these things are important, there seemed to be a lot of these details that you don't see in the beginning steps that are posted for newbies. You typically see, "pick a niche, buy a domain...build a list." I'm working on 3 websites right now, and I am just taking it one small step at a time. The one thing I find crazy on here, are the newbies trying to make money by teaching other people how to make money. WTF Really makes no sense! At least go try another niche, make some money and THEN teach people. It reminds me of my dad....loves to give me advice on playing poker, yet he always loses to me. :rolleyes:
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      A man asked Buddha "I want happiness" Buddha said " First remove "I" that's ego, then remove "want" that's desire. See now you are left with only happiness "
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      • Originally Posted by madelyndon View Post

        You really summed it up for me there! I can't speak for all newbies, but I know for myself it has nothing to do with being lazy and not wanting to take action. It was just focusing on one thing and not getting distracted. For example, I first started a blog and I was working a lot on creating content and updating the look of it. I would come on here and read something about website security, or backing up my blog and it would get me thinking, "wait, what about security and where do I backup my blog?"
        One thing I've learned is that it is incredibly important to outsource tasks that are tedious to do and can be completed by someone who already has that skillset for a small amount of money.

        When I first started, I set up every blog for myself. It was simple work but it took me too much time to set it up and make it look the way I wanted. I've since found that I can normally pay someone on fiverr $5 to $10 and have this done, as well as optimized for speed and security. Or I can post a job on odesk and get it installed, customized and have a logo made for not much more.

        These are things that would take me days to learn and hours to implement. Considering my time is worth way more than $5 or $10 an hour, I've learned that it's about doing what I do well and outsourcing anything that is time consuming but doesn't need my personal touch.
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        • Profile picture of the author madelyndon
          Originally Posted by Attraction Marketing View Post

          One thing I've learned is that it is incredibly important to outsource tasks that are tedious to do and can be completed by someone who already has that skillset for a small amount of money.

          When I first started, I set up every blog for myself. It was simple work but it took me too much time to set it up and make it look the way I wanted. I've since found that I can normally pay someone on fiverr $5 to $10 and have this done, as well as optimized for speed and security. Or I can post a job on odesk and get it installed, customized and have a logo made for not much more.

          For me, I've learned that it's about doing what I do well and outsourcing anything that is time consuming but doesn't need my personal touch.
          That is great advice! My first blog was such a pain. I would look up YouTube videos on how to place my logo and spend the night getting it right. On the other hand, there is something about that blog I love and I think it is because I made it all happen. My 2 other sites, people on here built for me. Best money I ever spent! Your post reminds me of other things I should be outsourcing.
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  • Profile picture of the author therichb
    People generally dont take care of how to be consistent enough while applying strategies to earn online .

    This creates a mess & the so called online marketers are kept at the same level as they were before...
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  • Profile picture of the author FIP
    hustlinsmoke

    Spot on re info overload. Is there any other business that is so dynamic in the way it changes and evolves and is represented by so many dfferent ways and approaches like IM?

    Maybe not!

    I still am challenged by basic technical things I should know - it gets very challenging to keep up, but if you don't have a 'can do' attitude, then you may as well try something else.

    The good news imo is if you can master the dynamics here you ar ein fact setting yourself up to be a flexible and adaptive person in a world that is rapidly changing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
      lets be honest here. when we give a newbie advice they simply don't do what we say. a lot of the things they will find to be to simple, or something that they don't want to do, so they don't do them.

      best advice I think anyone can give is show them the basics, answer any questions, and let them tough it all out.

      =============================================
      otherwise you end up with this type of scenario. lol
      grab that wso by sonso it's a must have.
      find a niche you like by doing this that and the other
      write some articles blogs hubpages to get traffic

      = the newbie answer to what you said:
      hmmmm everyone on wf is saying that wso and gurus are scammers
      so, I won't get that wso he mentioned
      "mind you the wso was by a guru who hammered out the basics"

      hmmmm I don't know what niche to follow even though weight loss, IM, acne
      seem to come up as good. I'm overwhelmed
      2 weeks later they go with the weight loss niche, even though its not as popular now

      hmmmm I would write some blogs, articles, hubpages, but I just can't imagine getting traffic that way, most people are using facebook, twitter and seo. he must
      not know what he's talking about when he told me to write.
      "post wf how do I get likes on facebook"
      "post wf whats the best way to get traffic"

      After all of that the newbie comes back and tells you or even better never asks you a question, but never fails to post how all wso's are bogust, all guru's are scammers, and IM is run by cutthroats. lol
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  • Profile picture of the author thatkeywordguy
    Part of the problem is the un-sustainability of the typical methods that are taught in IM.

    I've seen lots of days when I was flying high and saying "This is easssyyy" -- only to have Google change their mind and tank my websites.

    I've read lots of books that had tricks.
    I've read lots of books that had a neat method or two.
    I've read lots of books that worked between algorithm updates.

    But I've personally never read an IM guidebook that really laid out a step-by-step guide to a long term sustainable whitehat business--based on economic fundamentals.

    I make money online. But it sure as hell ain't easy. I think this business is rock hard personally. I couldn't teach anyone to do what I do.

    But if anyone out there has found the killer PDF by which I can make 100,000 dollars a year (using whitehat methods that will still be around in 36 months) then please, post a link!
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    • Profile picture of the author shane_k
      Originally Posted by thatkeywordguy View Post

      Part of the problem is the un-sustainability of the typical methods that are taught in IM.

      I've seen lots of days when I was flying high and saying "This is easssyyy" -- only to have Google change their mind and tank my websites.

      I've read lots of books that had tricks.
      I've read lots of books that had a neat method or two.
      I've read lots of books that worked between algorithm updates.

      But I've personally never read an IM guidebook that really laid out a step-by-step guide to a long term sustainable whitehat business--based on economic fundamentals.

      I make money online. But it sure as hell ain't easy. I think this business is rock hard personally. I couldn't teach anyone to do what I do.

      But if anyone out there has found the killer PDF by which I can make 100,000 dollars a year (using whitehat methods that will still be around in 36 months) then please, post a link!
      Check out pretty much anything by Marlon Sanders.

      The Product Dashboard

      The Amazing Formula

      The Marketing Dashboard

      These are not PDF's but larger courses probably around $57 - $67. But very valuable and totally whitehat. And what he teaches is pretty much what you will find here for free but if you don't want to have to dig through all the junk to find the diamonds then check his stuff out.
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  • Profile picture of the author iRunThis
    Wow.

    The OP, and the comments. All things that I've thought about... I thought I was the only one.

    This is great and most of you are right!

    CDarklock, funny that you mention that because I thought the same exact thing when "meditating" one night and internet marketing and WSO's crossed my mind. I thought to myself, "Why do people buy these "get rich quick" WSO's, read it, discover that it's complete hype and BS. Then turn around and buy another one." I realized that, like you said, they're not paying for the WSO to make money initially. They're paying for the idea, for the motivation, and the "feel good" feeling that you get when you feel like your life is about to change for the better.

    JaVaun T
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by iRunThis View Post

      I realized that, like you said, they're not paying for the WSO to make money initially. They're paying for the idea, for the motivation, and the "feel good" feeling that you get when you feel like your life is about to change for the better.
      Technically, dopamine and serotonin are the ONLY two things you enjoy, and your brain synthesises them just as readily through fantasy as it does with reality.

      So it's just their drug of choice. Some smoke weed. Some drink liquor. Some buy WSOs.

      And some vendors know perfectly well what they are - drug dealers - and have built their entire business around that knowledge and its implications.
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  • Profile picture of the author adsassist
    Here is my insight on being a newbie for all most a year and I am a person that will never give up. No matter how long it takes.

    To me its seems teaching/learning a physical skill, like making an artical into a PDF is very easy. You are told the steps, you take action and you get a artical into a PDF. I personaly could make a WSO on the physical side of IM. Here are the steps, you need to take action and you will get the results. This does not mean you will make money.

    This is what I think with myself.
    Learning the mental/psychology skills of people and yourself is the problem. Some people have it and some dont. I myself did not have this skill. I am still learning and taking small actions so failer will be small. This skill seems harder for me to understand then most. Taking someones hand and walking them through it is not a bad thing if you understand what you are walking them through.

    Like I said, I could walk anyone through building a website and getting affiliate products on it with out a problem. To make money with it intails understanding the people that are looking for that product. Understanding why and how people buy these products. Just becuase someone likes a product doesnt mean they are going to buy it. You have to research into your buyer. Understanding the pychology on how that person thinks and giving them what they want.

    This is the skill I think I need to learn. From what I learned, I think this is the main skill for any business. The people that are sucessful have this skill and some times over look that some dont. So they teach the physical skills needed and wonder why they failed.

    I think the best teacher would be one that understands their students on a psychology level. Understanding why and what thoughts the student has. Work with them on tasks to build this skill where the student doesnt even relize they are using that skill. Naturally understanding this skill where they could teach it to someone else.

    If you can not teach a skill, you yourself do not understand that skill.

    Thats why I think most newbies fail. Looking to make money and learning every skill they can. Over looking that they need to understand the thoughts of people and rarely being told to learn that skill.

    Thats just my thoughts on things. So please dont beat me up to bad. I am still learning.
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    • Profile picture of the author Silas Hart
      The only thing you can do is nag. There is some people out there, that I might even say is the majority, that only do things by being nagged. I asked someone who made 7 figures a year in the same industry why I had a lot of "drop outs" or people that just lose interest. He said "Think of all of the people stuck out there with fast food jobs, or making minimum wage... there is no real reason why those people can't find jobs making twice as much doing just a little more in some factory or something."

      I stopped nagging. Its unfortunate that these are the same people that look for tiny little excuses as to why something didn't work for them, and these are the same people that typically leave a generic "this didn't work" negative response on WSO threads.
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  • I love this thread.

    What amazes me is that the same unique set of skills that make me a perfect fit for online marketing have made me a complete mismatch for any job that I've ever worked in. I would always excel, but strangely not that interested or motivated in other jobs. With IM, however, I feel motivated by the smallest accomplishments. Like I'm doing something that really matters. It's like coming home.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeatherH
    Wow!! I've bookmarked this page! Thank you all so much for this!!
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  • Incidentally, I think this is the lesson that newbies must learn before they can become successful at online marketing. They must pinch pennies, sure, because they truly don't need every course or piece of software ever made to be successful in this business. They do need to learn how to manage, however. This is tough for people who think that they must do everything themselves or have been trained for years to be worker bees instead of the queen... you get my meaning LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author Likha Tyson
    Banned
    No , it's not really a big issue to help people make money online if you are dealing with an educated person who knows the basics of internet and english , other wise , it's not going to be possible at all..:p
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  • Profile picture of the author HorseStall
    I think the hardest thing to teach is work ethic.There has been a cultural shift and many don't take pride in hard work, they want to make money fast without the work.
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      The bottom line is the people you're trying to teach aren't carbon copies of you...they don't have the same foundation (experience, education and personality) that you've accumulated over your lifetime.
      This. Very much this.

      I wrote a product a couple years ago about how to write articles. It isn't anything at all the way I myself write articles, because I started writing short fiction thirty-five years ago. You want to write like me? Read several thousand books and write for 35 years. That's what I did.

      But you can't really do that, so I taught something easier. And a bunch of people said "You don't write like that at all. You're trying to keep us from being like you. You want us to keep writing bad articles."

      So I pulled the product off the market and now you can't get it. That does a much better job of keeping them writing bad articles. As far as keeping them from being like me, well, I can't do anything to stop them reading thousands of books and writing for 35 years
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  • Profile picture of the author thatkeywordguy
    In the words of George from Seinfeld:

    "It's like saying to Pavarotti, 'Teach me to sing like you.'"

    When you watch a professional surfer, the little tiny muscle movements that he's making in his legs basically are not conceptually different than those of a beginner.

    But he has a much more refined and subtle application in each movement, that is based on years of training.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    in any "how to make money field" which included the IM market, there are really only a relatively few people who can actually afford to pay the big bucks to get serious help from serious experts. These people pay people huge sums of money for the real answers to their specific problems.

    Like me, I have done a fair bit of fairly high level consulting. I have been paid 10k per day on lots of occasions to walk into a business and give them a very specific and detailed list of exactly what they are doing wrong and how to turn things around.

    now, if you don't have big money you can't afford that. But you might be able to afford a $40 book that gives a few examples and some solid advice on any given topic related to the success of your business. but in doing so you then have to figure out which of those lessons you need to apply to your business and exactly how to do that. Thats where people screw up. They buy a course, or an ebook.

    its basically the difference in warren buffet telling you to invest in big cap dividend paying stocks. versus paying warren buffet big money to tell you exactly what stocks he is putting his money into.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    You guys ever run across this model/explanation of competency:

    Unconscious Incompetent

    Conscious Incompetent

    Conscious Competent

    Unconscious Competent.

    Stages we go through when we're learning a new skill. So here come the newbs, Unconscious Incompetents. They don't know what they don't know.

    And here we are, Unconscious Competent teachers. We "Just Do It."

    Tough fit.

    When the newbie moves to Conscious Incompetent, they've had their wake-up call. They know they don't know something. Now they're ready to learn.

    Then we can teach them how to become Conscious Competents. They'll know what to do in this state, but be thinking about how to do it. The wizardry of "I just know what do to and do it" comes later.

    Make sense?

    Matching up the Unconscious Incompetent ("Hey! I just found Warrior Forum and wanna make some money!") with Unconscious Competent ("I just made some money. It's easy") is very difficult. You have to wait until a Conscious Incompetent shows up at your door and then they're ready.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    You simply cannot "teach people how to make money".

    Not even a Harvard Business School MBA will teach you how to do that.

    You must learn how to make money on your own. What works for one person is never guaranteed to work for others.

    If that were the case, every franchise in existence would be wildly successful - and that simply isn't the case.
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  • Profile picture of the author JabMonkey
    Not everyone is cut out for this, but for the rest the problem as I see it is not that it is difficult to teach newbies, it is difficult to keep them focused and motivated.

    I tried teaching one old guy (older than myself anyway and I'm no youngster), and it was like trying to teach a five year old with ADHD.

    He was constantly surfing and running into different offers and claims...and I noted he had the same problem most newbies have: they want the magic bullet - the thing that is going to make them financially secure with little or no effort.

    Many of them SAY "I want to LEARN how to make money online," but they leave out the unspoken part running in the back of their mind:

    '...so long as I don't have to do much.'
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    • Profile picture of the author Rymen1993
      Well, people want to make $100-$200 dollars doing nothing. They want to be ''spoon fed'' with all kinds of methods that are used by 80% warriors.
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    • Profile picture of the author cashp0wer
      I have tried to teach very smart people this business but they just couldn't handle it. It wasn't that they weren't smart enough they just didn't realize how much work it was actually going to be and were not motivated enough to stay with it.
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      • Profile picture of the author J Bold
        Originally Posted by cashp0wer View Post

        I have tried to teach very smart people this business but they just couldn't handle it. It wasn't that they weren't smart enough they just didn't realize how much work it was actually going to be and were not motivated enough to stay with it.

        That's really the issue in a nutshell isn't it?

        People, even smart people who may be very successful in their profession outside of internet marketing, even running another business, somehow still get caught up in the dream of internet money somehow being like magic fairy dust that will appear out of thin air for minimal effort. It's crazy how people just lose their heads when it comes to making money online and forget everything they know about making money in the "real world." Internet money is the real world and takes effort just like any other kind of business. That's no different.

        The only huge difference I would say is typically with business offline there's much more capital needed at the beginning whereas you can start your IM career on practically nothing, and still succeed if you are persistent and following the right advice.
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        • Profile picture of the author jamescanz
          I haven't read all of the responses but I am going to chime in as someone who has only 1 month under his belt being an authority affiliate.

          First of all ... I know exactly how it feels. Why? Because I am an expert at building muscle and losing body fat. I know more than enough to get anyone from out-of-shape into "holy sh*t you f*cking look awesome!" shape.

          Yet, so many people just want to look awesome, they might lose motivation, get information overload, not see results, quit etc (just like with making money)

          I am also one of those people who has a difficult time making money online ... granted I am new to this ... but I plan on doing this for the rest of my life. I have no other options.

          The point I am making is that it all comes down to one thing ...

          THE MIND SET

          I'm friends with, worked with, and have been coached by the best natural drug free bodybuilder in the world and have learned more from him than any high school diploma, college degree, or personal trainer certification could ever give me.

          When someone wants something bad enough ... I just don't there being any other reason that makes such a big difference than the mind set.

          And you can usually tell when someone REALLY wants it, compared to someone looking for a quick fix.
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  • Profile picture of the author TaylorLu
    Banned
    This post should really be taken into consideration. Too much people are in such situations...
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  • Profile picture of the author Dimitris Skiadas
    This is a GREAT advice.

    Everyone has a different personality.Some people learn quicker than others but they can't apply easily what they learn.

    Some others, no matter how hard you try to teach them anything, they just don't want to succeed.

    Others, do not need much.Maybe they are smarter than you are and commit more easily to their goals and succeed through time.

    Thanks for sharing. Making money online is NOT for everyone. I have tried to teach my friends how to make money online.None of all 4 of them has made it.They have NO patience to succeed.

    It doesn't matter how hard a coach is trying to make you succeed if the other person has no confidence, no goals,doesn't commit or take action.And eventually he fails.

    Thanks again.

    Dimitris
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  • Profile picture of the author WebPen
    That's a great post man.

    I've been realizing this lately as well. Sometimes we take the skills that we learn along the way for granted.

    For example, let's say that I'm giving a course on how to use PLR. I might say "buy some PLR with a sales page, buy your own domain, put the sales page on your own hosting, and then start driving traffic"

    ...well to a newbie, I might as well be speaking in Greek.

    "How do I know if the PLR has a sales page?"
    "Where do I get the PLR?"
    "Where do I buy my own domain? How much does that cost?"
    "Where do I get my own hosting? How much is that? How do I set it up? How do I point my domain to the hosting?"
    "How do I put my salespage on the hosting? How do I make a PayPal button?"

    ...

    That's a LOT of questions- and we haven't even gotten to the traffic generation methods yet!
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  • Profile picture of the author SuperDJ
    This is a very sexy thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author letsmakeit
    Its hard for newbies to learn how to make money online because its hard for them commit fully to a system to make it work. It is hard to really put a strong effort into something if you are constantly questioning if it is going to work in the first place. That one of the main reasons why it is so hard to break into this industry as a newbie. It also is the reason why people jump back and forth between methods in the result of never mastering anything.
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  • Profile picture of the author sanwacik
    Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post

    Something I think about a lot are all the suffering newbies here on WF.

    Like I always come on here to see threads from people where it seems like their lives are about to end. They say stuff like "my wife left me, I'm $70,000 in debt and about to lose my home... I need to make $!" How are we suppose to react to stuff like this? Just ignore it?

    Then people actually come into those threads, and make 1 post explaining how these people can make $$$.

    But there is a SERIOUS problem with this. The problem being, I have never read one post or idea, then went and made money with that idea. I'm sure there are experts who can, but I'm not an expert, nor is this thread targeted at those types.

    Here is a hypothetical situation to consider.

    Someone comes on here and asks how they can make money on clickbank. Alexa comes into the thread and drops a bunch of useful links for them.

    So and so person respects her, so they use the links, and try to make money with clickbank... right up untill they fail miserably.

    There always seems to be 1 major element missing in these situations. In this case, its Alexas brain. Imagine her brain like a pizza (I apologize if this offends you Alexa ).

    To make money with that brain-pizza, you need the WHOLE PIE. The information you get, isn't even = to 1 piece of pie. Its like 1 piece thats been thrown into a blender, then the sauce is squeezed out on top of a spoon, and thats what you get to work with.

    You still need her writing abilities, her sales abilities, her experience in dealing with people, all the failures shes made and learned from... there are so many other pieces to the pie that you will never get.

    Not unless you COMMIT YOURSELF like she has. Or like any successful person has.

    The reason I'm making this thread is I'm begining to notice how DIFFICULT it is to teach a newbie how to do what I do. And when I first started teaching people, I thought "this is the easiest thing in the world, so ANYONE should be able to learn it".

    Kinda like you see that 1 line thrown around here all the time. "If I can do it, you can do it". Its something I've stopped saying because I've realized its simply NOT TRUE. Just because you can do something, does NOT mean the next person can.

    So before you take any advice on here, really consider that fact. Its basic human nature. When you become good at ANYTHING, you always take for granted how much you REALLY know.

    I think that is super important for both gurus and newbies to keep in mind. I ignorantly began talking about the fact that what I was doing was "super simple" to do. Untill I realized after weeks of coaching people (for free)... that its really NOT easy. I possess a unique set of skills I never realized I had. I guess they are a natural part of my personality, and I just expected other people to be the same way... which was really stupid.

    This was also the reason I didn't want to charge for coaching my first time. I could always hear this question in the back of my mind. "How sure can I really be, that other people can do what I do?"

    How sure can you be, that other people know what you know?
    How sure can you be, that other people see the world like you?
    How sure can you be, that your unique life experiences aren't the reason why you're so successful?
    How sure can you be that your methods will REALLY work for other people?
    How much do you ignore your own talents and advantages because $$$ wants you to believe you are like everyone else?

    Do people not give themselves enough credit? All the gurus? All the successful people? Do they really have NO IDEA how advantaged they are?

    I'm really curious how many gurus on here ignore these questions.

    All I'm suggesting is that people think about these ideas in a realistic way. Sometimes if you REALLY want to be successful, you need to commit yourself 250% to modeling another persons LIFE. What they read, what they eat, what they talk about, every single little thing they do.

    Does it sound obsessive/creepy? Probably. But do I think its the best way to learn? Absolutely. I have 1 guru who I stalk the hell out of on here. I even take advice about things that have NOTHING to do with money.

    Its more about the mindset, HOW they think, WHY they make the decisions they do. What would YOU rather know? The details of how they make money, or the motivating forces that caused them to discover all those details in the first place?

    This probably sounds like new age psychobabble for all I know.

    If you're focused on 10 seperate gurus, its going to be damn impossible to model all their unique talents and abilities. People say you should absorb all the things that mesh with your invididual personality.

    But do you have ANY IDEA how long this takes? And couldn't it be possible that your personality, and your way of viewing life, is the exact reason why you're failing?

    Thats why if you want my honest advice, pick **1 guru**. Make damn sure that your guru is successful and knows what the hell they are doing.

    Then become a monkey on that gurus back. If you don't like the label "guru", then lets just use the label "friend". Make 1 good friend on WF, someone who is willing to help you, then model that person like a son models their father. Or like a daughter models their mother.

    I honestly believe you need this type of foundation to make money. Don't be overly passionate about too many ideas or people. Find someone or something you can truely relate to. One thing that will drive you right past the finish line.

    I have NO IDEA if this is good advice. I'll be honest about that. But these types of thoughts go through my head everyday. So its open to criticism. Clarity is one of the hardest things to obtain in a world full of distraction. So I can't think of a much better way to gain clairity. I'm sure there are other ways, I just haven't found them yet.

    -Red
    This has really harpooned me because I myself teach Internet Marketing and it is so very true that you really cannot be "SURE" if the ones you are teaching are really ever grasping what you teach.

    Everybody sees what one teaches differently no matter how simple it may appear to be. Not everyone "thinks" the same way. It takes painstaking patience to teach something YOU know to somebody else who doesn't know it at all and then, you still don't have that guarantee that they understood what it is you're teaching.

    I agree that one should grab hold of a guru (or friend) like a pit bull and never let go.

    Thank you again for this thread. It was very - "well put".
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  • Profile picture of the author GaurabBorah
    I see the same people buying many of the WSO's which makes me wonder whether they are really applying what they are buying or just get and start looking for something else the other day.

    Many people assume things and I don't know somehow they make themselves believe that its not going to work for them. They make some money with one method and then instead of scaling it they leave it in hope of something better.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
    I think one of the reasons, which prevails lots, is that there are many, many, many people trying to teach people how to make money online, who themselves are not successful at making money online.

    This goes back to an old saying "You cannot give what you do not have". In other words, you gotta have something in order to give it. Many of the people trying to give this type of advice out, do not have it.

    This in my opinion is one major reason.
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    • Profile picture of the author GlobalTrader
      Originally Posted by Steve Wells View Post

      I think one of the reasons, which prevails lots, is that there are many, many, many people trying to teach people how to make money online, who themselves are not successful at making money online.

      This goes back to an old saying "You cannot give what you do not have". In other words, you gotta have something in order to give it. Many of the people trying to give this type of advice out, do not have it.
      Steve,

      I agree with most of what you have stated but consider the fact that most professors in universities have never actually worked a job in the industries they are teaching students who will ultimately be degreed and attempt to enter those industries.

      A large percentage of the students will never succeed in the industries they chose as their major but there are a small percentage who will and yet they ALL received the same education from someone who most likely never worked a day in that type of industry.

      I believe another factor in the failure to succeed in online marketing or any business for that matter is the JOB mentality that we all are subjected to from the time we enter school to the time we graduate.

      There is little, if any, emphasis given to 'starting one's own business'. Most of the emphasis is learning skills to help you get a good "JOB". Having that drilled into you on a daily basis for all those years it really takes someone who has a burning desire to become successful in any business and that desire comes from within.

      You can read all the motivational books, attend all the seminars, read all the books but it all still comes down to each individual and his or her desire to succeed in a business of their own, whatever that business may be.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
        Originally Posted by GlobalTrader View Post

        Steve,

        I agree with most of what you have stated but consider the fact that most professors in universities have never actually worked a job in the industries they are teaching students who will ultimately be degreed and attempt to enter those industries.

        A large percentage of the students will never succeed in the industries they chose as their major but there are a small percentage who will and yet they ALL received the same education from someone who most likely never worked a day in that type of industry.

        I believe another factor in the failure to succeed in online marketing or any business for that matter is the JOB mentality that we all are subjected to from the time we enter school to the time we graduate.

        There is little, if any, emphasis given to 'starting one's own business'. Most of the emphasis is learning skills to help you get a good "JOB". Having that drilled into you on a daily basis for all those years it really takes someone who has a burning desire to become successful in any business and that desire comes from within.

        You can read all the motivational books, attend all the seminars, read all the books but it all still comes down to each individual and his or her desire to succeed in a business of their own, whatever that business may be.
        Yes, there are many professors who teach others things that they themselves have not done in the real world. But on the other hand there are many who teach things that they have done in the real world, and still do in the real world.

        As for Universities teaching people how to "start their own business". This is not really taught in Universities because college is meant to funnel the masses into working for other companies or corporations. Not to be individuals. It's part of the system of this world that shapes the mentalities of almost everyone on the planet.

        The story goes like this.......

        "If you do not go to college, youll never amount to anything"

        "If you want to be successful in life, you need a college education"

        These lines shoved down kids throats as soon as they get into at least grade school. Building a mentality that is not FREE to believe in success by ones own advances but having to rely on the system to be successful.

        This defeats people.....in general. The rest is history, we see it everyday.

        People afraid to start their own business. Afraid to step out on a limb, for fear of failure. It's been breed into them.

        Universities are a great place to learn, but they are a training ground, or funnel system to work for someone else.........
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      • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
        Originally Posted by GlobalTrader View Post

        Steve,

        I agree with most of what you have stated but consider the fact that most professors in universities have never actually worked a job in the industries they are teaching students who will ultimately be degreed and attempt to enter those industries.

        A large percentage of the students will never succeed in the industries they chose as their major but there are a small percentage who will and yet they ALL received the same education from someone who most likely never worked a day in that type of industry.

        I believe another factor in the failure to succeed in online marketing or any business for that matter is the JOB mentality that we all are subjected to from the time we enter school to the time we graduate.

        There is little, if any, emphasis given to 'starting one's own business'. Most of the emphasis is learning skills to help you get a good "JOB". Having that drilled into you on a daily basis for all those years it really takes someone who has a burning desire to become successful in any business and that desire comes from within.

        You can read all the motivational books, attend all the seminars, read all the books but it all still comes down to each individual and his or her desire to succeed in a business of their own, whatever that business may be.
        /\ Thats a phenomenal point. Not to single you out, but I have a life experience of my own that strongly relates to that.

        In the course of my education, I took 16 classes on psychology.

        Social psychology
        Abnormal Psychology
        Evolutionary psychology
        Psychology of adolescents
        Behavoiral Psychology
        History of Psychology
        Crisis Intervention
        Clinical Psychology
        Statistical Psychology
        Advanced Personality Theories in Research
        Externship in Clinical Psychology


        ..... I'll be honest I can't remember them all but it was a lot.

        Did I learn some really cool stuff? Absolutely. Almost like school had given me a bunch of "WSOs" on psychology. I learned some neat tricks and techniques, very few of which I actually TRIED in school.

        HOWEVER.

        You want to know WHEN I learned the most about psychology?

        As strange as it will sound, first, there were my 4 years in the seduction community as I was going to college. That helped me MORE than school itself. It was real world testing/application. In school, I only had *1* class (the last one I mentioned) that involved real world experience, and that class was really WEAK. Most of what we did was scripted.

        On top of that, because I love psychology so much, and wanted to learn more about myself, I saw a psychotherapist for 6 years (I'm not crazy, but in college I may have thought I was).

        That guy taught me more about people than any single professor I had while in school. He would often tell me that the crap my professors were teaching me was flat out wrong.

        He would CHALLENGE what I was being taught at my uni. He would talk to me A LOT about women (which had to be half of everything we talked about) and his lessons on other things in life.

        I liked this guy so much I began to MODEL the way he thought, the advice he gave, how he delt with people. And if you want my honest opinion, having that type of mentor helped me more than anything. The guy had 40 years of real world experience applying psychology. So he KNEW what worked and what didn't. And I HAD TO KNOW what he knew.

        He was also one of the best "salesmen" I've ever met in my life. Along with some of my mentors in the seduction community. I think I told him at least a dozen times that I wanted to stop therapy, and he'd make it impossible to leave. He wouldn't force me, he wouldn't put me on these guilt trips... it was this absolute attitude of indifference that always worked. Like "thats fine, everyone needs to take breaks from time to time. Just let me know when our last session will be ok?" And that last session was delayed for years lol. Everytime he did that I realized he was more of a professional than a friend, and thats WHY I kept going back.

        I wanted to learn how to be "professional" like he was.

        But once again, there is that whole concept of finding a "guru" you can relate to, and sticking with it long term. I had NO IDEA when I was in school that I would ever get into marketing. When I DID get into marketing, I realized it was the perfect choice for my personality.

        The ironic part is I always leave these "credentials" out when I try to help people, because I know they will use them as excuses. Instead of thinking "hey maybe this guy knows something useful", they think "no way in hell can I learn what he knows". To me, those are the people who don't really want to learn. Because when you are REALLY passionate about something you don't make excuses for why you can't do it. Learning 1 new thing should excite you so much that you want to immediately get out & try it. And if you are not that person... then maybe marketing isn't your real passion? Maybe you're interested in money 1000xs more than you care about people? Just remember, money doesn't have emotions. People do.

        -Red
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      • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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        • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
          Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

          You have to bear in mind that someone teaching MMO is doing so based on his or her own experience at it. That said, someone teaching it who has not been successful at it...it makes one wonder what qualifies them to teach it in the first place.
          Not necessarily.

          While it's true you need to be honest (don't sell instructions on a MMO method, saying or insinuating you've used it when you haven't), the WF is often too harsh on people selling MMO info without having done it themselves. (Although I think the cynicism is often justified because of the large volume of scammers.)

          There IS room for the "reporter" -- that is, someone who goes out and researches methods, interviews people who have successfully used the methods, and then sells the info. Just so long as they don't pretend they've done it if they haven't.

          This is a very valid way to sell MMO info even if you haven't done it.

          Personally, I was hugely attracted to the offline marketing craze here on the WF and it sparked an idea. However, I've "tweaked" the idea considerably. Instead of selling IM services to my local business market, I chose to serve an industry on a national level. To cover what I don't know, I've brought in guest experts as faculty to share/teach their info. Several are multi-millionaires.

          My own MMO successes are very modest, but my faculty covers my weaknesses and makes up for my lack of experience (i.e. my lack of huge MMO success). My business model allows me to stand up and offer MMO info to my target industries with complete integrity.

          I can stay in the MMO field, focusing on offline marketing and feel completely good about it because it's in complete integrity. I'm truly thrilled about what I'm building right now -- and thrilled that I don't have to be sneaky about it or pretend to do something I haven't to make a buck.

          There ARE ways to do whatever you want to do with complete integrity in a way that's truly of service to your customers if you're willing to spend the time to figure it out. (And yes, it DOES take some time to figure out sometimes. Don't be in such a hurry to make a buck that you feel you must be unethical.)

          Michelle
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    • Profile picture of the author GaurabBorah
      I don't disagree with you. But in the end if you are not making money then its not the teacher but its because of you.

      You can learn hell lots of things from all the brilliant teachers around the world but in order to be successful you need to apply them yourself, make mistakes, learn from them and then do it again successfully.

      Originally Posted by Steve Wells View Post

      I think one of the reasons, which prevails lots, is that there are many, many, many people trying to teach people how to make money online, who themselves are not successful at making money online.

      This goes back to an old saying "You cannot give what you do not have". In other words, you gotta have something in order to give it. Many of the people trying to give this type of advice out, do not have it.

      This in my opinion is one major reason.
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  • Profile picture of the author WarrenPeterson
    Great OP and some great replies.

    I'll add my experience, and hope this helps some as well.

    I'm a business coach so I work with all sorts (current clients range from a guy opening a new restaurant to a woman opening a rental home cleaning business), although few are what would fall into the traditional IM type of entrepreneur. However, I do get those clients now and then as well.

    It is quite interesting with the clients who are more in the IM-mindset, as they tend to want to know what 'system' to try first (or similar language). And I always reply to them that I have no idea. That tends to shock them a bit.

    I spend most of my first few calls with clients working with them, about them. We spend lots of time on mindset. If I have no idea who they are, what drives them, why they need to do what they need to do, what their own pain points are, what their pleasure points are, what sort of work they love to do, and what sort of work they hate to do, there is zero chance I can help them build a real business.

    There is a disconnect between making money and running a business; a major one. Even folks who have run companies for a long time have this disconnect. I had this myself even for many years.

    It is one thing to chase after money, buy the new product/system/plan, and another thing entirely to design and build a successful business. This point should be one that new folks take to heart.

    For folks who come in and are in a serious state of need, while the money demand is there, answering that need alone will not help, there are usually other serious issues in their life. People in that state have far more going on that simply the lack of adequate income.

    They shouldn't buy anything (sacrilege I know...) until they have spent time learning about themselves. Otherwise the lack of success with all the various systems will cause frustration, and odds are very high that if they are in that serious financial state the frustration will move to outright depression.

    I wish there was more time spent on this issue actually. Between the desire to get started and taking action there is real work that needs to be done. That real work is often the difference maker between success and burn-out.
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  • Profile picture of the author webby99
    Not all newbies are bad. I've been reading this forum and threads for about a year and there is alot of useful information, however, if you don't know how to use this information it does you no good. I'm struggling but, I ask questions and read. I've found out real quickly especially when your looking for help on the internet that people tend to shun you. I'm not saying that's bad, but their are truly motivated people who are willing to learn and could possibly be an asset that are right now reading and trying to implement what they have read. Unfortunately for those who are hardworking and understand what it takes to be a successful entrepreneur get shot down by would be mentor's because of the ignorant lazy slackers they have come across in their career......
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  • Profile picture of the author ShutupAndEarn
    Most people ask too many questions and over complicate it. If they throw up one website that does not convert instantly they give up.

    A lot of people also buy a ton of WSO's that claim to make $2,000 in 24 hours and when they don't they give up.
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  • Profile picture of the author charidemos
    The time we live in is the easiest to make money in for the average folk, so I think it's lack of character the main contributing factor when it comes to failure. Lack of consistency, motivation and drive.
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  • Profile picture of the author shane_k
    As someone who's day job is teaching, training and motivating others in a highly competitive industry you will start to realize that there is a lot more to it than just showing them or telling them what to do.

    A lot of other things come into play. Things such as...

    Their habits
    What do you know about their habits? Are they organized or disorganized? Are they lazy, and/or impatient? Are they used to procrastination? Are they the kind of person who constantly rationalizes to themselves that it is ok to watch another episode of “The Big Bang Theory” instead of doing that task they know they have to get done.

    Their own beliefs about themselves and about what is possible in the world
    What do you know about their beliefs about themselves and what they feel is possible or what they deserve? If they are the kind of person who believes that they are a failure, or that they can never do anything right, well that is going to have a huge impact on whether they succeed or not. What about their beliefs about money? If you are trying to coach someone and they have been taught their whole lives that anyone who is rich is a dirty, greedy, scoundrel, then you are going to see them do a lot of self-sabotaging.

    Your own skills
    How good are you at being able to communicate your ideas to others in a ways that they understand what you are talking about?
    How flexible are you in your own communication? By this I mean are you able to notice if what you are saying isn’t getting through and when you see that are you able to adjust what you are saying in a way so they get it?

    Your knowledge of the subject you are teaching
    How well do you know it? Are you trying to coach while learning yourself at the same time?
    Or have you been there and already succeeded?
    And not only that, but have you failed and pulled yourself up out of that failure?
    If they make mistakes do you know how to troubleshoot and correct those mistakes?

    Their skills
    Do they have the skills to apply what you are teaching? If not are they willing to take the time to learn those skills?
    If they want to make money but they are not willing to put in the time and effort to learn the skills to do that then that is a problem and a discussion that you will have to have with them.
    Imagine someone coming to you and wanting to ride a bike. But they don’t want to take the time to learn how to balance, how to pedal, how to steer, how to brake, etc. It’s no different with IM.

    And I haven’t even mentioned having to deal with all the misconceptions, misinformation and competing ideas, that they might have read about Internet Marketing and what they believe it is.


    As you can see a lot more goes into coaching and training than just having the ability to show someone how to build a backlink or how to create a website, or telling them to do steps #1, #2, and #3 and they will be successful.
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  • Profile picture of the author paul nicholls
    I have found that you can teach people all the information they need to know to create an income online but what it really comes down to is "the person"

    They actually have to go out there and get there hands dirty and just jump in

    The information which you give them is just a small piece of the pie as you say but it`s still a vital piece of the pie because without this piece they would even more lost and unable to even start

    I have found that the people that end up succeeding are people that have "get up and go" "determination" "patients" "focus" and "perserverence"

    those are all the qualities which i often see in many people which seem to succeed online

    Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
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    It's not hard to teach people. It's hard to teach the wrong people.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Horny Devil View Post

      It's not hard to teach people. It's hard to teach the wrong people.
      Most people are the wrong people.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
    I don't think that you can "teach" someone how to make money.

    If we look at it in terms of IM I believe you can teach them the steps you are taking to make money and also show them the steps they need to take.

    However whether they can adapt, spot markets, go forward and make more money from that is up to them.

    One thing I have found is that to make money online or off you need to be resourceful and understand that no one thing lasts forever. The web is always changing so you need to have a passion for it and enjoy what you do.

    If you are trying to teach someone that is looking for a "pain free" quick buck then they may not be successful.

    You CAN teach the mindset to be successful that will cause the person to push through barriers however until they get there.

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
    Excellent advice! Pick one mentor/coach/guru and shut everyone else out!

    It's a key point of advice I've been posting here on the WF:

    Pick ONE! Pick ONE product or service. Pick ONE niche. Pick ONE business model. Pick ONE mentor/coach.

    And then FOCUS!

    F -- Follow
    O -- One
    C -- Course
    U -- Until
    S -- Successful

    You dilute your efforts when you try to do too many things at once or listen to too many people. Pick your coach wisely and then shut everyone else out.

    I've been blessed with a FABULOUS coach! I've paid her $8K just this year alone. (And $3K in 2010.) After this Nov. though, she'll no longer be doing business coaching. (I'm having separation anxiety and feel abandoned. )

    I feel so privileged to learn from her. She's my role model for a woman in business. Not only did she teach us the how-to's, she's taught us the mindsets and other "soft" skills necessary for business success.

    Now, I'm currently casting about for another coach. I think I've found one and intended to join his mastermind last month but just wasn't able to swing it. If there's an opening, I'll see if I can do it in Oct. Hmmm...

    Michelle
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    • Profile picture of the author fin
      Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post


      I've been blessed with a FABULOUS coach! I've paid her $8K just this year alone. (And $3K in 2010.) After this Nov. though, she'll no longer be doing business coaching. (I'm having separation anxiety and feel abandoned. )
      Not trying to pry into your finances here, but has that resulted in you making a lot more profit than $8K.

      Otherwise it doesn't really matter how 'fabulous' they are.
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      • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
        Originally Posted by fin View Post

        Not trying to pry into your finances here, but has that resulted in you making a lot more profit than $8K.

        Otherwise it doesn't really matter how 'fabulous' they are.
        As I recall, you've asked me this before and I answered it. Do a search.

        (I just did a quick search and can't find it. I don't have the time right now...)

        Michelle
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  • Profile picture of the author EireBiz
    Great post.Some golden nuggets in here. One thing I did notice is no body mentioned patience.It can be so frustrating trying to teach some people.Little tasks that you or I take for granted may seem daunting for others. Showing patience will not only benefit them but you could also eventually have a person very beneficial to your future. Sometimes it is all too easy to dump the slow ones and move on.
    I do agree that most people out there are just looking to get rich quick which we all know won't happen.But in that haystack there are a few needles. A bit rusty perhaps but with a polish of patience good things will happen.
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  • Profile picture of the author solomos
    thats a great thread! Thanks all for your contibution. I was really thinking of buying a course etc but now i ll concentrate of WF, study and possibly try to find a mentor after a while if need it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
      Originally Posted by solomos View Post

      thats a great thread! Thanks all for your contibution. I was really thinking of buying a course etc but now i ll concentrate of WF, study and possibly try to find a mentor after a while if need it.
      Just an FYI...

      I STRONGLY recommend buying at least one comprehensive IM course. Mentoring can be expensive and courses are usually much less expensive.

      A good, comprehensive IM course will give you a step-by-step plan. Relying solely on the WF and Google will cause a lot of confusion and take a LONG time. Worse, the advice here tends to focus on just TACTICS instead of an overall, complete blueprint.

      (Example: when someone asks "What kind of business should I start?", some "genius" here will answer "Article marketing." Article marketing is NOT a business! It's a marketing method.) You're trying to cobble a business together from bits and pieces of a puzzle which will take an unnecessarily long time.

      Buying even just 1 comprehensive IM course will shorten up your learning curve immensely.

      Michelle
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  • Profile picture of the author Heretic
    I think that everything in life has a barrier or an activation energy (just like a chemical reaction).
    If you can give to the system enough energy to surpass the initial barrier you're at a good point. Even after that you've given enough energy you still have to give energy to the system to sustain itself or you're lost...
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ten
    I mean this as constructive feedback. Perhaps if it is hard to teach them, then you are doing it wrong... or at least there would be a way to do it that feels maybe not easy, but at least not hard.
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  • Profile picture of the author Susan A
    Teaching people is a science itself, a set of skill that need to be perfected time over time. Not every successful person can be a teacher, we all know that. At least as a student myself, I need to be able to distinguish between a successful guru and good teacher and guru.
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  • Profile picture of the author sadneck
    Red, very well put! I think you summed up the issues of teaching others perfectly, and I do believe it is not in the teaching that the connection is missing, but in the people being taught there is an inner link missing. I think two of the points you made directly relate to this; you said "COMMIT YOURSELF" and "If you're following 10 different gurus...."

    I think this may be at its simplest form the missing connection... We have to understand a new persons point of you, (the point of view we had when we entered IM.) We were hungry for one sale! Just one, that first sweet $5 to $35! We probably spread our efforts thin, never following through on a method.

    I believe real success comes when you take ONE METHOD, or ONE TEACHING and you apply it until there is no energy left in your body. You apply the technique today, you apply it tonight, and you apply tomorrow. When you are done you then apply it next month, and you continue to apply it the month after that.

    You must get sick of applying the technique and you must do nothing else.

    This is when our success came. I stayed up all night and manually submitted software. 4PM, I will never forget it. Clickbank emailed me... "Clickbank Sale USERNAME ######" or something along those lines.

    Thats when I thought, "Rinse, repeat and do it better and faster!"

    Best of luck to every one new, and thanks again Red for the great post.

    Andrew
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  • Profile picture of the author napoleonwill
    Money making tactics are a band-aid solution. If you develop that core foundation of an abundance mentality, you will always have more ideas than time. This requires reading hundreds of books on mindset. Anthony Robbins, Napoleon Hill, Brian Tracy, business biographies, the list is endless. People want success without focusing on the path. People need to put their heads down and just work. Read every book on success you can. Keep reading even when you start making some money. Be a student of the game. People underestimate how much work is actually involved in developing that abundance mentality.
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  • Profile picture of the author mjmagee
    Hi Everyone
    I'm brand new here and this post caught my eye. I have been trying to get into internet marketing for a while and have not been able to do anything and it has nothing to do with work ethic I have worked for myself for many years and understand the good and bad of working for yourself. What I found is how I analyze things in my head. I was a boat mechanic for 30 years and can no longer do that type of work but I know that I have to understand how something works to be able to fix it or make it even better. My problem with IM is that because of all the different stuff out there I haven't been able to wrap my mind around how it works to even take that first step. I also have realized by teaching younger mechanics that everyone learns different. I personally learn better by watching and then doing rather than reading and then doing. I also find the information is scattered out ther so it's tough to get going in the right direction. I just signed up for Chris Farrells site and am finding his way of teaching so far is working for me it's making things click. I am going into this as if I know nothing and taking the baby steps necessary for a solid foundation.
    So thats it from a real noobie and I'm looking to be at your levels soon .
    Thanks for reading
    Mike
    PS I'll take any advice you have to offer
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  • Profile picture of the author vonsar
    Im money making tolerant but not as much . Not a problem tho, even if i dont make 100 bucks a day
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