Dealing with adult babies

15 years ago

Yep,

Full refund and a polite email.

I have to admit I have taken or two customers to task about their attitudes, but its not the best strategy! I guess its just a case of dealing with them as quickly and professionally as possible.

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Clark

15 years ago

Maybe you didn't tell them what type of rocket fuel to use:

Search Engine Optimization Secrets

I will show you how to rocket to the top of Google while still following their rules. Your sites will stay at the top as long as you follow my system.

You set the expectation that was ohhh.... shall we say, misleading?

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Brad Gosse 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Clark

Maybe you didn't tell them what type of rocket fuel to use:

You set the expectation that was ohhh.... shall we say, misleading?

Actually no. It would be misleading if I said "overnight" or "in a few short hours".

Trust me I have plenty of happy clients
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Chris Lockwood

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Clark

You set the expectation that was ohhh.... shall we say, misleading?

Did he say that they would get those results in 5 days? That seems pretty fast to decide that things weren't working.

Not sure what was misleading there.

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Clark

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood

Did he say that they would get those results in 5 days? That seems pretty fast to decide that things weren't working.

Not sure what was misleading there.

Chris, I never heard of a rocket taking more than 5 days to reach the top.

Besides, the OP's interpretation isn't what matters here, it's the customer's that does.

Read the sales letter then comment.

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bottomline11 15 years ago

People who constantly or are just looking for agolden goose will never be successful no matter how you define success. They don't want to put forth the effort and learning to make it happen.
Maybe if you give this person a full refund and nicely explain that they are not the end all, they just might wake up and realize they doing nothing more than wasting your time and theirs and get on with their lives.

Best of luck and don't waste to much thoiught and time on people like this because unfortunately for them and the world they just aren't worth it.

Matt
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Chris Lockwood

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Clark

Chris, I never heard of a rocket taking more than 5 days to reach the top.

Besides, the OP's interpretation isn't what matters here, it's the customer's that does.

Read the sales letter then comment.

Reach the top of what? Try getting a rocket to Mars in 5 days.

I have not seen the sales letter, duh. So don't expect me to have read it since it hasn't been posted here.

So if the customer thinks he will get to the top of Google in 10 seconds, that is reasonable?

Don't tell me when to comment.

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Debbie Songster

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Clark

Chris, I never heard of a rocket taking more than 5 days to reach the top.

Besides, the OP's interpretation isn't what matters here, it's the customer's that does.

Read the sales letter then comment.

The best predictor of the future is the past.

Considering the customer has a $7k past history of failure I would venture to to guess the CUSTOMER'S expectation warped.

$7k worth of mistakes and failures is more than a "misleading" bit of copy on a sales letter.

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Clark

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Debbie Songster

The best predictor of the future is the past.

Considering the customer has a $7k past history of failure I would venture to to guess the CUSTOMER'S expectation warped.

$7k worth of mistakes and failures is more than a "misleading" bit of copy on a sales letter.

... and that's all it is, a guess.

I'm not surprised at those people who feel qualified to own a slingshot when dealing with customers who genuinely utilize the information within the tin to the best of their knowledge and ability yet fall short and "reach out" for help yet never receive it.

Maybe that's one of the reasons why the MMO niche is full of habitual buyers and something that shouldn't be held against them.

Just a guess as well.

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Debbie Songster

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Clark

... and that's all it is, a guess.

I'm not surprised at those people who feel qualified to own a slingshot when dealing with customers who genuinely utilize the information within the tin to the best of their knowledge and ability yet fall short and "reach out" for help yet never receive it.

Good grief man, do you not see the pattern here?
If this was one or two purchases, it would be different.

I'm basing this on the man's history of spending 7 thousand dollars.
Not $700 and not $70

$7,000

Thats a lot of money to spend. If that amount of money doesn't motivate you to get the job done I don't know what will.

Now to address your comment of "people who feel qualified to own a slingshot when dealing with customers who genuinely utilize the information within the tin to the best of their knowledge and ability yet fall short and "reach out" for help yet never receive it."

How do you know this $7k person has "genuinely utilized the information"?
How do you know that he has utilized ANY of the $7k worth of information he has invested in?

We don't...

All we know is he tried the OP product and expected results within 5 days

Perhaps that was why the other products "failed" him. He expected results in 5 days with those too and didn't get it.

You really shouldn't assume that the people in this thread are unwilling to help someone who has "fallen short and reaching out for help".
I'm sure many of us have gone far and above the call of duty to help people who really shouldn't be doing this type of business in the first place
I know I have.

And, I have been used, abused and trampled on by those who take advantage of my good nature and giving disposition. So, its not a crime for the OP to "evaluate" the customer and determine that this "problem child" is going to be far too much work for the investment.

You have to draw the line somewhere.

You can't fix stupid and no good deed goes unpunished.

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mywebwork

15 years ago

You have offered a refund, that should do the trick.

Sadly this is what a lot of people think about making money on the Internet, just click a mouse a few times and go back to bed while the profits roll into your bank account. This myth is fueled by sleazy late night infomercials and inflated "guru" earnings claims that flood your mailbox.

You may want to look at your sales copy and specify what can reasonably be achieved with your marketing course so there are no future misunderstandings, this is especially important if your target market consists primarily of beginners.

Bill

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Clark

15 years ago

Oh, it's a slow rocket... I get it now.

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Brad Gosse 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Clark

Oh, it's a slow rocket... I get it now.

Point taken. I am going to re-work my copy. Maybe I should change it to "take the bus to the top of google" LOL

To be fair this guy is at the top of google. His niche just sucks
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Debbie Songster

15 years ago

Brad - giving a refund and removing them from your "life" is all you can do.
There are people out there that can't be helped.
If you think you are going to fail you will fail and after spending $7k this person hasn't learned the lesson.
Making money online means being a leader of your own business. Marketing is only one facet of that business.

There are some people who are workers and some who are leaders - clearly this person is NOT a leader.

Don't waste your time and effort trying to help someone be something they can't. Unfortunately these types of people suck all the life out of you with their negative attitudes and self defeating ideas.

Every time this person fails they become more and more negative. Based on their $7k record, I'd say you are at the tail end of a long loosing streak and you will have to suffer through every failure story that the $7k investment has "created" for this person.
It's not worth your time.

Their reason for failure is a lot deeper than someone else's product or course. They have to fix whats broken inside them before they will ever be successful (if ever) at any venture they try.

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tommygadget

15 years ago

Well at least they bought the product first. I've had people pepper me with questions, obervations, complaints BEFORE buying anything from me

TomG.

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Raydal 15 years ago

Originally Posted by tommygadget

Well at least they bought the product first. I've had people pepper me with questions, obervations, complaints BEFORE buying anything from me

TomG.

And I thought I was the only one. This is FUNNY.

I think that I offer a lot of free stuff on my blog and by posting
tips on the WF, but every now and then you'll get people who
want to milk you with NO INTENTION OF USING YOUR SERVICES.

I'm a little more diplomatic in my replies than to say, "Do you
think I started this business yesterday?"

I'm a kind fella --- too kind according to my wife.

Let's form a support group. "12 Steps to ..."

-Ray Edwards
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Clark

15 years ago

they have spent over $7k on home based businesses over the last few years

Now Brad, I want you to seriously think if dumping this customer is your best approach.

This customer could very well be your prized testimonial of your system if you are willing to see the potential that exists within it and your customer. Could be a real-life case study for success that you could incorporate into your system and also use to presell it.

If you don't want him, send your buyer my way and every other buyer that annoys you

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Brad Gosse

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Clark

Now Brad, I want you to seriously think if dumping this customer is your best approach.

This customer could very well be your prized testimonial of your system if you are willing to see the potential that exists within it and your customer. Could be a real-life case study for success that you could incorporate into your system and also use to presell it.

If you don't want him, send your buyer my way and every other buyer that annoys you

Link me up dawg, you can have them all LOL

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Clark

15 years ago

Sweet - You sell your product for $391.00 USD?

Feel free to PM me your "adult baby" list anytime.

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Peter Soos

15 years ago

Same person may buy a race car and wonder why they don't come in first. If spending money alone guaranteed results this forum wouldn't be needed (sad face goes here).

You can never stop learning and buying a $1997 course that gives you a small part of the equation won't get it either. A friend of mine in business once told me that every now and then you've got to smile...fire your clients in a nice way and be thankful to those that get it. Get rid of the negative baggage and smile,

Peter Soos

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Brad Gosse

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Peter Soos

Same person may buy a race car and wonder why they don't come in first. If spending money alone guaranteed results this forum wouldn't be needed (sad face goes here).

You can never stop learning and buying a $1997 course that gives you a small part of the equation won't get it either. A friend of mine in business once told me that every now and then you've got to smile...fire your clients in a nice way and be thankful to those that get it. Get rid of the negative baggage and smile,

Peter Soos

So true man.

I have fired clients before and it never feels wrong. This guy and his wife are actually nice people but someone I know very well always says "You can't fix stupid".

I would rather give him and his wife back their money. I have never denied a refund request. In this case I am forcing the refund on the customer for my own sanity. For every one of him I have 50-100 happy customers. I can't complain.

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MWGrubb58

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Brad Gosse

So true man.

I have fired clients before and it never feels wrong. This guy and his wife are actually nice people but someone I know very well always says "You can't fix stupid".

I would rather give him and his wife back their money. I have never denied a refund request. In this case I am forcing the refund on the customer for my own sanity. For every one of him I have 50-100 happy customers. I can't complain.

You are doing the right thing!

Life is way too short to deal with people who are griping and complaining because your system didn't do the job. Many people who find a system doesn't work realize that it isn't the fault of the system, but rather, THEY didn't follow it!

Just my two cents.

Cheers,

Millard

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BrianMcLeod

15 years ago

Investing time and money into "turning" an energy vampire has nearly always proven futile to me -- despite heroic efforts to do that time and again over the years.

Toxic people rarely appreciate your efforts, especially when there may be any kind of upside for YOU rather than THEM exclusively. They are remarkably self-absorbed and almost invariably suffer from delusional entitlement issues.

I'm not poo-pooing what Clark is saying... Merely pointing toward the ROI... You can bend over backwards trying to help the unhelpable and once your back breaks, they just step over you and find a new "host".

My suggestions is to either gently refund in good faith or lay down some specific ground rules with them early on about reasonable expectations. Sometimes, customers that are about as bright as a box of rocks can be completely in the dark about what seems quite obvious to us (and others). So, first step should always be a little clarification. When that (usually) goes nowhere, then...

Best,

Brian

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billyboy

Banned 15 years ago

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JustaWizard

15 years ago

Setting aside the "rocket" part for now; one possible positive suggestion is to make clear in your promo material that this is not an overnight thing, and that they'll get the results if they're willing to stick with it; maybe even use a "takeaway", something along the lines of "this is not for you if you believe wishing makes dreams come true" or "if you're looking for instant results overnight after barely lifting a finger, this is not for you".

Best,
David

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Chris Lockwood

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JustaWizard

Setting aside the "rocket" part for now; one possible positive suggestion is to make clear in your promo material that this is not an overnight thing, and that they'll get the results if they're willing to stick with it; maybe even use a "takeaway", something along the lines of "this is not for you if you believe wishing makes dreams come true" or "if you're looking for instant results overnight after barely lifting a finger, this is not for you".

The problem with that is that the people looking for instant results do not read or understand the whole page. So no matter what you say they will still make their unrealistic assumptions.

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Clark 15 years ago

Originally Posted by billyboy

I can't even see Superman doing this Clark.

LOL - clever.

Most cannot see the opportunities that exist under their nose.

My previous comment was in relation to the "system" that was sold to the customer.

Testimonials (social proof) are very powerful and answers that basic question in the prospects mind, "Can I do this too?".
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Dan C. Rinnert

15 years ago

Originally Posted by billyboy

I can't even see Superman doing this Clark.

Superman could submit your site to 1,000 directories, leave comments on 1,000 blogs, set up 100 different blogs with rewritten PLR content linking back to your site, setup an advertising program on Facebook, set up some Twitter accounts and get several hundred new followers, set up 100 different websites on different servers utilizing rewritten PLR content to point back to your website, ditto for Squidoo, generate a newsworthy story to tie in your product and draw attention to it, all during his lunch break.

You'd be at the top of Google by 5:00 p.m. ;-)

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sam12six

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

Superman could submit your site to 1,000 directories, leave comments on 1,000 blogs, set up 100 different blogs with rewritten PLR content linking back to your site, setup an advertising program on Facebook, set up some Twitter accounts and get several hundred new followers, set up 100 different websites on different servers utilizing rewritten PLR content to point back to your website, ditto for Squidoo, generate a newsworthy story to tie in your product and draw attention to it, all during his lunch break.

You'd be at the top of Google by 5:00 p.m. ;-)

He could not!! He'd get flagged as a spammer and get your site blocked.

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Louis Raven

15 years ago

Stop all contact with them. You've already waisted enouhg time on them which you could have created an article that would be sending you 800+ visitors a year. At a 1% convesion at $40 that's a possible $320 you may have lost dealing with this person.

Seriously, I fire the babies without even thinking about it, but don't assume I don't give a few hours of my time each week to those who really want to learn. I'll always find time for those.

Louis

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Clark

15 years ago

The "secret" is in setting the proper expectations inclusive of properly "qualifying" your prospect.

Sometimes, the student needs extra upfront attention AND... they're willing to pay for that lifeline if you offer it to them otherwise, the right thing to do would be to refund them in accordance to your guarantee.

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BrianMcLeod

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Clark

The "secret" is in setting the proper expectations inclusive of properly "qualifying" your prospect.

Sometimes, the student needs extra upfront attention AND... they're willing to pay for that lifeline if you offer it to them otherwise, the right thing to do would be to refund them in accordance to your guarantee.

Of course, this is very true... and an extremely important point.

Nonetheless, there will ALWAYS be a statistical subset of your customers that are essentially "bottom feeders". These are the people that buy to bitch, and bitch to buy. They buy (and buy, and buy) to keep getting another hit of that ephemeral high from taking an affirmative action in a state of deep emotional intensity...

NO amount of conversion killing baby talk will eliminate them because they're not really paying that much attention to what you're saying anyway...

They've bought from you not because of reason, but because of emotion... based on their own internal projection of their future experience with your product or service.

They don't read disclaimers, they don't read acknowledgements or terms of services, they don't read instructions...

But most of all, they DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY DON'T KNOW.

They are your most expensive customers to support, chewing up a largely disproportionate percentage of your customer service resources...

It's the 80/20 rule at work again -- 20% of your customers taking up 80% of your time.

You owe it to your GOOD customers to eliminate bad apples from the bunch. You make more money, you serve them better... everyone's a winner, except for the whiner, and you can't do anything about that anyway, can you?

Best,

Brian

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artwebster

15 years ago

The best way to deal with this sort of person is to simply repeat their email back to them with several question marks at the end of each sentence.

I don't do internet marketing but I do have a health and welfare function that often brings me into contact with people who will ask stupid things like - "what should I do about excess flatus in the pouch?"

Sending that back like this - "what should I do about excess flatus in the pouch?"????? works every time.

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Ron Killian

15 years ago

I agree, give him his money back, be nice and let it go, least that's what I'd do. It's amazing how easily some people can get upset. It can be hard sometimes, often you want to say, "wait a minute idiot..", but as others have said, it's not worth it. You should have enough happy customers to offset the few that bug you.

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Clark

15 years ago

I posted the sales letter passage here in post #3 -> http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...tml#post631840

So, that answers your question

Reach the top of what?

As for your next question:

So if the customer thinks he will get to the top of Google in 10 seconds, that is reasonable?

Here is my answer in post #18 ->http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...tml#post632063

For anyone interested, here is some insight into Internet Marketing Sins: An Open Letter to All Internet Marketers

Have a nice day

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NikkiM

15 years ago

Good Discussion, by the way, I noticed that in Internet Marketing there seems to be a lot of people think they can buy into a system and get millions with no effort.

It seems to me that everyone is chasing after the goose that holds the golden egg.

No matter what your sales letter is saying, there will always be the few babies that will cry if it doesn't happen overnight. I'm not saying that the sales letter needs to be revamped just because you have a few criers.

People have to remember that sales letters are designed to draw people in and let them know what you have to offer. The guarantee solidifies the quality of the product, but should not be there to be abused.

I would like to believe that if you have a product or service that really works, you will be profitable in the numbers that are following the system that is laid out in front of them. There are babies in every market, so don't focus too much attention on them.

As long as your product or service is more productive than filled with whiners, chances are you have a solid product. Throw them a bone, and move on to bigger, better, things.

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Dan C. Rinnert

15 years ago

Originally Posted by NikkiM

Good Discussion, by the way, I noticed that in Internet Marketing there seems to be a lot of people think they can buy into a system and get millions with no effort.

Perhaps because a lot of sales copy promises them exactly that?

I mean, there's an ad on the radio for an Internet marketing system, where you "could be making money in minutes."

And some Internet marketers wonder why people think they can get rich easily with little effort or why some people, who have probably bought such systems and not gotten rich overnight, think that Internet marketing is a scam?

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Clark

15 years ago

I agree with you, Brian.

Only, when you've done your due dilligence and delivered on what you promised yet the customer is still not satisfied or wants to take advantage of your time and resources without adequate compentation outside of the business agreement both parties agreed to.

Yes, I believe it is best to politely suggest an alternate avenue of support for them to take their business to someone better qualified to meet their needs/wants. There is nothing wrong with that at all.

It is common for businesses to refer customers to other businesses which specialize in customized products that will better meet their needs.

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peter gibson

15 years ago

I'll add 0.02 cents here to say this; anyone who has purchased 7k worth of online coaching and systems in the past would know full well that 5 days to a top spot and loads of cash is a bloody pipe dream. He would know it even if he merely glanced at all that expensive material.

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Clark

15 years ago

Debbie, your rebuttal is full of contradictions especially when you finish your thought with a definitive statement after previously mentioning that we don't have all the facts about the customer which, I fully agree with.

You can't fix stupid and no good deed goes unpunished.

Again, I'm not surprised by your reaction to the customer whom you don't even know.

I use customer feedback to review the gaps which exist in my product/service without casting stones at my customers because there is value in the feedback for me and them and that's where I draw the line between emotional reaction and critical thinking when I receive customer feedback.

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Martin Luxton 15 years ago

When I was teaching in London, my school used me to 'troubleshoot' problem classes. Their profile was one, two or all of the following - lack of progress, no class dynamic, lots of complaints.

9 times out of 10 I could turn the class around and then hand it over to another teacher. It wasn't always easy and it required a lot of time and energy, but I could fix it. Occasionally there were classes I could do nothing with which would then go to another trouble shooter and she would often resolve the problem.

The question is - are you a teacher as well as a marketer?

Yes, there are customers who will never 'get it' and one of the most important things a teacher has to learn is how to identify unsalvageable energy vampires so they don't drag all the others down through stealing too much of your time.

But, the most satisfying thing for me was seeing a class move from boredom and misery to brightness and learning.

Now, about this guy who has spent $7,000. You could spend $20,000 in the IM niche and still have nothing but crap on your hard drive. Did you ask him which programmes he bought and what action he took?

Maybe if your system had been the first thing he ever bought he might have succeeded instead of becoming a habitual failure because all the stuff he bought before was incomplete (Shock! Horror! Who would sell incomplete systems?) or misleading.

This guy has spent a lot of money and is willing to spend more. Why not make him a pro bono case study if you feel bad about taking his money?
Try and turn him round and get him on the road to success.

People often complain because they are confused, not because they want to be problematic. I was confused for 2 years until I realized I couldn't trust a large percentage of people whose lists I subscribed to.

Why not do an in-depth needs analysis of his problems, doubts and his abilities and see if you can look at this again with fresh eyes? (You might even be able to create a product out of this).

Martin
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Glenn Newsome 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Clark

Oh, it's a slow rocket... I get it now.

Originally Posted by Clark

Chris, I never heard of a rocket taking more than 5 days to reach the top.

Well, if the rocket is going to the nearest star, it would actually take light years. It would still be traveling fast.

Originally Posted by Clark

Debbie, your rebuttal is full of contradictions

Just a thought.
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JayXtreme

15 years ago

I gotta say.. that, I would personally check this guy out.. if he has a serious attitude towards this thing..

Then get to work with him... how much more social proof do you need than a step by step case study with a student following YOUR strategy in detail.. from broke to bank?..

This situation is screaming out for you to grab it by the horns and make it good.

Obviously, you need to first assess the customers mindset in relation to his own success. If he is prepared to go for it with your help.. then I would be asking him to come stay with me whilst we made this work.. there is nothing more solid than actual results with people following your own strategy.. in my opinion.

Peace

Jay

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Ricky Parker

15 years ago

I usually outsource the diaper changing.

Trust me, the bigger they get the bigger the mess is to clean up.

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valerieSONORA

15 years ago

I can't handle adult babies. Don't have the patience.

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DJ-Sound

15 years ago

There is a lot of good information in here.

I also second just giving a full refund and a email stating that it does take work to get to the top of google. (I would then say since you've have had alot of bad luck lately how about joining my 1on1 coaching for $xxx a month and I promise to get you on track)

You gotta be selective in your clients.

-Ryan

Thanks

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Gavin Stephenson

15 years ago

LOL. if they spent more time taking action and less time complaing maybe they would get somewhere. Everytime I find a problem customer I create a video on it.

I got someone one time thought that they could make an Income working passively online with free marketing techniques. So Made a video showing how HUGE the internet is and how much web space they was covering with the small amount of work they done..

Hey I can't help it. It might be rude. But, to be honest sometimes you have to be rude.

Baby Adults, I guess its good that person hasnt given up. But i bet your customer is doing the same things. Tell him / her if you want different results do something different. Treat it like a real business. After that Ignore them..

Only spend time on superstars