Minor 'vent' about "repeater" posts.

The reason is called "no time" as in "I have no time to read all of the other posts, so I'm going to answer the question and leave."

Uh..good post - lol

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George Wright

12 years ago

I think that comes from some giving answers without reading the other replies first.

George Wright

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Richard Van

12 years ago

Originally Posted by JabMonkey

The reason is called "post count accumulation" as in "I'm going to skim all of the other posts, and answer the question, like everyone else already has, to get some sig exposure and try and look good"

Fixed that one for you.

Or below you have a more toned down version...

Originally Posted by George Wright

I think that comes from some giving answers without reading the other replies first.

George Wright

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JabMonkey

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Fixed that one for you.

Or below you have a more toned down version...

Lol! Yeah, that too, but I didn't want to offend anyone...I'm just a friendly monkey.

I didn't write the second post by the way...that was my split personality character, MonsterMonkey. He wrote it.

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fin

12 years ago

Some people are absolute idiots.

It has nothing to do with not reading the replies.

Someone could ask how to make $1000 and he could get a reply like 'Youtube videos.'

What the hell does that even mean? Either 50 people are so stupid they think listing a traffic technique will magically make someone money, or they think others are stupid enough to click on their sig.

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tonicemarketing

12 years ago

Keep in mind you also have people that are just trying to get their post count up. Used to be a real problem in the WSO threads until they stopped counting those.

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NomdePlom

12 years ago

Originally Posted by tonicemarketing

Keep in mind you also have people that are just trying to get their post count up. Used to be a real problem in the WSO threads until they stopped counting those.

I believe this is part of the answer. Newbies should review the guidelines - there are cautions regarding these sort of posts.

The other possibility is some very young people posting here.

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JabMonkey

12 years ago

I'll add that because of the borg-like learning processes of people trying to make money online, a lot of answers are adopted and then simply spit out when certain questions are asked.

You can gauge the percentage of original thought on a marketing forum by the number of people buying autoblogs and auto-pilot systems. The more people buying, the less original content being posted.

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FIP

12 years ago

If theres a thread with 50 posts on it i'm not always going to go through them all based on the time of doing that - sometimes I will of course, depending on my level of interest or feel for the quality of the thread.

As to why repetition happens I think its probably obvious. Either people don't read all the posts or they do read the posts and they are looking to add content to get their post count up perhaps?

Sometimes though a repetitive message/response sends a clear message of agreement/disagreement. That can be valuable in its own way.

You can't control a thread or those who post on it. I gave that up years ago on a site I was a major contributor on.
It used to frustrate me too.

There will always be the one liner brigade or those who don't have quality advice/opinion to give.

Thats just the way it is.

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Andyhenry

12 years ago

Is it really that simple? It's people not reading or wanting to increase post count?

Maybe I'm missing the point here - but why is post count so important?

Is it just that people think there's an element of social proof to having a high post count? or that they think they won't be listened to if they only have a few posts?

Some of the most respected members of this forum have low post counts - but when they post - people listen.

I 'get' the whole random posting for sig exposure thing - I report many posts for that these days because it's so blatent, but I guess I want to believe that those are the isolated few that just don't care about the community and that the majority of members here want to retain the value and quality that is also in abundance here.

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tonicemarketing

12 years ago

The reason that immediately come to mind are:
1)They are new to the site. You need so many post to private message unless you become a warroom member.

2) You could be interested in launching a WSO. It looks much better (to me at least) to see someone that has been here and contributed to the community.

3)Similar to #2. They have a product to promote and want the signature plastered in as many places as posible.(sorry just read your last point.)

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Is it really that simple? It's people not reading or wanting to increase post count?

Maybe I'm missing the point here - but why is post count so important?

Is it just that people think there's an element of social proof to having a high post count? or that they think they won't be listened to if they only have a few posts?

Some of the most respected members of this forum have low post counts - but when they post - people listen.

I 'get' the whole random posting for sig exposure thing - I report many posts for that these days because it's so blatent, but I guess I want to believe that those are the isolated few that just don't care about the community and that the majority of members here want to retain the value and quality that is also in abundance here.

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Andyhenry

12 years ago

Originally Posted by tonicemarketing

2) You could be interested in launching a WSO. It looks much better (to me at least) to see someone that has been here and contributed to the community.

But surely that thinking is flawed - because if anyone actually looks at their "contribution" they'll quickly see it's all irrelevant one-liners repeating what other people already said.

That would be enough to make me NOT be interested in anything they're selling.

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Richard Van

12 years ago

Andy,

If it isn't post count, signature exposure, the want to launch a WSO, stupidity or any combination of, what do you reckon it is?

I'm pretty out of ideas.

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Andyhenry

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Andy,

If it isn't post count, signature exposure, the want to launch a WSO, stupidity or any combination of, what do you reckon it is?

I'm pretty out of ideas.

Me too.

There's just so much of it I was hoping it wasn't really like that and I'd missed something which would put it in a more positive context.

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Arunabh Singh

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Andy,

If it isn't post count, signature exposure, the want to launch a WSO, stupidity or any combination of, what do you reckon it is?

I'm pretty out of ideas.

I think some people do it to increase their post count so they look like they are an established member when they launch their WSO. They are delusional enough to think that they can pull it off.

Some people are just not bothered to read the whole thread and are only interested in dropping their signature link.

Some do it out of sheer stupidity I guess.

So I guess it is a combination of all of the above factors.

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MissTerraK 12 years ago

I think that perhaps, when you are new to the forum, it is a pretty intimidating place especially when you factor in all the majorly successful warriors within it with years of experience.

If these newer members have been reading the boards for awhile, they also see that at times, some posters are lambasted for something they've said. Couple that with they may be relatively new to internet marketing as well, they may feel what they know is inferior to what others know.

They do however, want to be a part of the forum and participate in posting in the threads, so they slowly get their feet wet by saying something that has already been posted and make it short and sweet. They wait to see what reaction they get if any and go to the next thread that interests them. With time, they may open up more and start posting more meatier responses.

That is with newbies and new members combined. With older members, imo, there just is no viable reason or excuse, other than what others have already posted above.

That's my take on it, anyway.

Terra
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Green Moon

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Andy,

If it isn't post count, signature exposure, the want to launch a WSO, stupidity or any combination of, what do you reckon it is?

I'm pretty out of ideas.

Some people simply think that no one else has expressed the idea as well as they can. I know people who do essentially the "repeater post" in a group conversation in real life. They are not stupid, in fact they are often smart, but they don't realize that everyone else isn't interested in hearing them express the same idea in their "new' way.

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R Hagel 12 years ago

I would suspect it has something to do with how many cats the poster owns. The more cats you have, the more time you spend trying to get them to quit jumping on the keyboard while you're typing.

Trust me, I'm speaking from personal experience. If you're in the eternal battle of "keep the cats off the keyboard," you just don't have time to read every single post in a thread. And you certainly don't have time to create an original thought.

Bottom line? More cats = more "me too" posts.

Becky

p.s. And this post illustrates the opposite problem -- those who want to "stand out" by offering a different viewpoint. Even if the different viewpoint is total BS.

PPS. Dubai Apartments // Lower Insurance Rates // Buy Viagra Online
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FilipinoRockstar

12 years ago

Its kind of sad, really. Its hard to to tell if people here are really trying to contribute or not.

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

But surely that thinking is flawed - because if anyone actually looks at their "contribution" they'll quickly see it's all irrelevant one-liners repeating what other people already said.

That would be enough to make me NOT be interested in anything they're selling.

I think that's just the minority of people. As long the sales copy of the WSO is good, anyone can be sold to.

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retsced

12 years ago

Yes, it's an absolute joke. I hate those stupid generic questions that have been asked a million times already...

"What's the best traffic generating strategy?"

This question was only asked an hour ago and already it has a boat load of replies like this...

youtube
article marketing
social media
blah blah blah

As if this information is not common knowledge to the idiot asking the question and the other idiots answering it.

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Banned 12 years ago

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12 years ago

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Mark Singletary

12 years ago

I hear you but in the spirit of fair play, I can see a post about searching the forum in a rant about repeater posts being appropriate.

Think about it - most repeater threads "how do I", "is ___dead", "not making any money" normally gets the poster an admonition to search the forum because it's been talked about hundreds of times.

I don't know the other poster but I can see his post as being somewhat on topic if we're willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

On the other hand, he may have read "repeater posts" in the title and didn't actually read what it was about and so assumed searching Google would eliminate repeater posts.

Mark

Originally Posted by joseph7384

How about posts like this, they really get under my skin when a post has completely noting to do with the topic at all.

Another thing that's mind boggling is why wasn't I issued a pair of these search Goggles, I really would like to get some and what is the advantage of using them.

~Joseph
P.S. All 50+ posts of this poster are one liners, no more then a sentence.

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Fraggler

12 years ago

Maybe some are just trying to join the conversation and become part of the community; it's hard to break the ice when you're new.

Another point is that sometimes the first person can answer the question perfectly but it carries little weight until his view or response is backed up by many others.

I guess if such threads are annoying then I have to ask why do you keep reading them when they've been answered in the first half-dozen responses anyway?

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Martin Avis

12 years ago

I suspect that arrogance is the main culprit.

Some people are too arrogant to read a whole thread because they think their time is more important than anyone else's. It isn't laziness because if that was case they wouldn't bother to read and reply at all.

And then there are those who are so arrogant that they think that their opinion, even if it has already been stated by others, is more important and so restate it. They just love to see their name in print.

I'm sure that stupidity plays a big part too, but arrogance underpins it, in my view.

By the way, I have read the entire thread and I don't think that I'm repeating any previous answer, but if I am, please consider that there is another possible factor: aging brain syndrome.

Martin

P.S. Another reason I've just thought of is that some posts are so incomprehensible and muddled that it is very difficult to understand them, so repeating what they meant to say is easy to do without knowing you've done it!

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

Andy

Is it really that simple? It's people not reading or wanting to increase post count?

Add in "wanting to be helpful," and "wanting to be a part of things" like Troy said, and yeah. It's really that simple.

But surely that thinking is flawed - because if anyone actually looks at their "contribution" they'll quickly see it's all irrelevant one-liners repeating what other people already said.

People looking at a WSO thread rarely go check out the seller's posts.

FIP summed it up: That's just the way it is.

Paul

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Cali16

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Martin.Avis

I suspect that arrogance is the main culprit.

Some people are too arrogant to read a whole thread because they think their time is more important than anyone else's.

I disagree. Just because someone doesn't take the time to read every post in a thread (especially a lengthy thread), because they're short on time, doesn't mean they're arrogant or that they automatically regard their time as more valuable than everyone else's.

It can be a bit time consuming to read through a thread that's gone on for more than 2 pages. Should it be a rule that you must read every single post before offering a response, because you might just say something that someone else has already said?

If I understood Andy correctly (based on one of his later posts), he was referring more to the short one-liners that offer nothing and repeat previous similar one-liners, rather than those posts from people who are genuinely trying to contribute but perhaps stated something very similar to an earlier post (forgive me if I'm wrong, Andy).

I guess, for me, there are just far bigger annoyances on the forum than similar posts appearing in a thread (I'm not referring to the "good post" type posts). It's typical of forums, and is to be expected in longer threads because a lot of people skim through many of the posts before replying and don't read every single word. But is that arrogance? I would say very rarely.

As for boosting one's post count, certainly there are some who post simply for that reason - usually they're new to the forum. It's easy to spot that behavior when someone who just joined makes 25+ one-line posts in the span of a few minutes.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents (and my apologies if it too closely resembles anyone else's 2 cents!

)

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discrat

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Cali16

I disagree. Just because someone doesn't take the time to read every post in a thread (especially a lengthy thread), because they're short on time, doesn't mean they're arrogant or that they automatically regard their time as more valuable than everyone else's.

It can be a bit time consuming to read through a thread that's gone on for more than 2 pages. Should it be a rule that you must read every single post before offering a response, because you might just say something that someone else has already said?

If I understood Andy correctly (based on one of his later posts), he was referring more to the short one-liners that offer nothing and repeat previous similar one-liners, rather than those posts from people who are genuinely trying to contribute but perhaps stated something very similar to an earlier post (forgive me if I'm wrong, Andy).

I guess, for me, there are just far bigger annoyances on the forum than similar posts appearing in a thread (I'm not referring to the "good post" type posts). It's typical of forums, and is to be expected in longer threads because a lot of people skim through many of the posts before replying and don't read every single word. But is that arrogance? I would say very rarely.

As for boosting one's post count, certainly there are some who post simply for that reason - usually they're new to the forum. It's easy to spot that behavior when someone who just joined makes 25+ one-line posts in the span of a few minutes.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents (and my apologies if it too closely resembles anyone else's 2 cents!

)

I will have to agree with this to some extent. If I see a Thread 4 pages long, I have been guilty of possibly repeating an answer. But I will only post to the original Posters first post without reading every post if it is something that I have a strong ,strong opinion about !

Normally like now, I do try to read thru every Post on the Thread.

Also I do think (like others have said here already) that people go in and try to increase their post count ,and get their sigs noticed or qualify for WSOs. But their pretty easy to spot.

And just like I did right now, answers are often repeated to reinforce one's own personal opinion!

Oh, and Andy out of the dozen or more WSOs I have bought in the last few years, I can honestly say I have not once read any of the WSO Seller's Posts on Warrior. Not once.
But now that you mention this, it seems to be a really prudent way to go about buying a WSO. I will try it next time, definitely

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Andyhenry 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Fraggler

I guess if such threads are annoying then I have to ask why do you keep reading them when they've been answered in the first half-dozen responses anyway?

Well - you don't know until you've read them. That's the point most people don't bother with. It's like when you're talking to someone and rather than listening they're just waiting to talk - what was said before them is just not factored in to what they say - but they don't even realise because they were in their own head.
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Michael Harris

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Fraggler

Maybe some are just trying to join the conversation and become part of the community; it's hard to break the ice when you're new.

Another point is that sometimes the first person can answer the question perfectly but it carries little weight until his view or response is backed up by many others.

I guess if such threads are annoying then I have to ask why do you keep reading them when they've been answered in the first half-dozen responses anyway?

I have to agree with you Fraggler,

During my relatively short time as a warrior I've never been forced to read
any posts..

I've only ever read the ones I wanted..

I thought success is about focusing on where you're going and what you want..

Not about focusing on others..

I love this forum for what it represents and would hate to see any censorship introduced..

Man.. one of the fun things of online marketing for me, is sifting through the BS to find find that "nugget of info" and then implementing it and watching what happens..

If online marketing and everything that comes with it is no longer an adventure, then there is always a day job..

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Walter Parrish

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Hi,

I just wanted a little vent about something that confuses me, maybe someone can enlighten me about why it happens.

You know the threads start with something like "what types of ways are there to ........" (insert topic in dotted space).

Then one person replies with a few ideas - fine.

Then another person replies with a few more - fine.

Then the next person replies stating one or two of the same ideas that the first response provided - not quite sure why.

Then the next person replies restating another one of the previously provided answers.

Then again.

Then again.

So you end up with one person asking a question and getting 50 responses but with 45 of them being the same thing that already got posted in multiple responses already.

I can understand if someone says "which is best" or something where they're looking for a body of weight behind certain ideas, but when they want a list and people are blindly just reposting the same things that have already been posted - I don't get it.

Why?

from my view its a contest to maybe sale products or services down the road, with the main goal being to show that you are some type of authority.

normally the average mind will remember two things.
whats said at the beginning of the convo or thread, and what's said at the end of the convo or thread.

everything else inbetween is just gray matter and normally not remembered at all.
so, your savvy person who wants to be the authority and doesn't have anything more to add will usually try to be one of the first to respond or at the tail end.

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Kurt

12 years ago

Some people just have to be heard, even if they have nothing to say.

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Jacob Padget

12 years ago

Surely, if you are requesting a list of something, then you will consider the list to be more reliable if it is comprised of consensus suggestions/ideas. Therefore, the more people mention such a suggestion or idea, the more confident you are going to be in it. The alternative would be that every idea would be mentioned once, you would simply have a long list of ideas and - by virtue of being a novice in this area, thus asking the question - you would have very little means of deciphering which are the best ideas.

This is not to imply that the most popular ideas are always the best ones, but it is generally a good idea to learn from the experience of others, unless/until you have good reason to do otherwise. And this coincides with the motivation for making the post, once again.

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Andyhenry

12 years ago

I was wondering how many times it would happen in this thread

so I'm paying close attention to answers

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George Wright 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

I was wondering how many times it would happen in this thread so I'm paying close attention to answers

In that case I would like to point out that I was posting above while the post above mine was being written and not after skipping it.

George Wright
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contentwriting360

Banned 12 years ago

People may be posting the same answers over and over again because they cannot afford to read all posts. For example, if I do see that there are 199 posts already, I will never read all those 199 posts. I will just read the first 1 to 5 posts and the last post before I share my thoughts.

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David Keith

12 years ago

someone around these parts has a sig that speaks to this a bit. The sig says something like "smart people talk because they have something to say, idiots talk because they have to say something."

Sadly, I would guess there is more truth to that statement than most of us want to believe. Along the same lines, there are probably fewer true marketing experts around these parts than many people think.

With everyone selling some sort of "how to market using xxxx". Everyone sorta comes off as an expert at first glance. Many of us who have been around the block a few times understand that many of these experts are not people who really should be giving advice in the first place.

Given that, it doesn't surprise me at all to see "me too" answers with relatively few truly unique contributions.

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Ryan David

12 years ago

If I ask a question, I'm happy to see a lot of responses. People can say the same thing and phrase it in a way that resonates with the OP.

I don't think most people read through posts and say "Hmm. Looks like Joe Blow covered that here." If that was the case, those article syndication threads wouldn't have all those replies. It's basically 4 people rephrasing things in different ways.

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Andyhenry

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Ryan David

If I ask a question, I'm happy to see a lot of responses. People can say the same thing and phrase it in a way that resonates with the OP.

I don't think most people read through posts and say "Hmm. Looks like Joe Blow covered that here." If that was the case, those article syndication threads wouldn't have all those replies. It's basically 4 people rephrasing things in different ways.

Hey Ryan,

I hear you - but I think I'm referring to something slightly different.

I agree that different people posting their own version of the same information is not a bad thing - if they're restating it in a new way to express it differently.

It's the 4 word posts which literally use the same exact words as several previous posts that I really notice, because they clearly don't care what's already been posted and they're not being considerate - rather literally just saying something for the sake of it with no consideration of whether it's wanted/needed.

Someone saying how much is a certain product and getting 50 responses with the exact same price would be an extreme example of what I'm referring to.

I love to hear different people's perspectives on things, so I definitely wouldn't have a problem with someone realising something had been said but wanting to restate/rephrase it because they think that's worth doing.

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Ryan David

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Hey Ryan,

It's the 4 word posts which literally use the same exact words as several previous posts that I really notice, because they clearly don't care what's already been posted and they're not being considerate - rather literally just saying something for the sake of it with no consideration of whether it's wanted/needed.

Ah, I see. Maybe it is people pumping up their post count then. Although that seems so strange to me that it doesn't seem plausible, but I'm not super active in the WSO forum so maybe that stuff does matter.

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Troy_Phillips

12 years ago

You can get it on fiverr for only $5

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MissTerraK 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Troy_Phillips

You can get it on fiverr for only $5

Ha!

Now careful, Troy.

The next thing you know, there are going to be about 100 or so offers there for writing compelling rants for only five bucks.

Terra
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Michael Ten

12 years ago

It doesn't bother me so much. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

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WarrenPeterson

12 years ago

In addition to the good points above, it is also somewhat a result of our ADHD society.

Folks don't feel they have the time to be bothered to read everything and just want to hop in. I'm just glad we don't see too much texting shorthand in forums (yet), but that absolutely will become part of the 'dialogue' sooner or later.

This type of thing is the same as what often happens in face-to-face conversations. Often the second person is not listening to the first person, and only waiting for an opportunity to start talking themselves.

The same issues happens on most forums, about most subjects. There are a handful of topics that are raised all the time, with the same basic answers each time.

I've been on forums of one sort or another for longer than I want to admit (I started with modems and BBS). There is a 'flow' to how forums move over time, and as per the audience expectations.

I'd be curious to know, if someone took the time to every make such a study, what sort of correlation between demographics and post style/length existed.

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GarrieWilson

12 years ago

I would post an answer but now I am scared that my reply might be the same as someone else's and people will consider it being done for post count, sig views or some other nefarious activity.

Garrie

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JohnMcCabe

12 years ago

Originally Posted by fin

What the hell does that even mean? Either 50 people are so stupid they think listing a traffic technique will magically make someone money, or they think others are stupid enough to click on their sig.

Jamie, don't shortchange the stupidity of some people - sometimes it's both.

:p

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Andy,

If it isn't post count, signature exposure, the want to launch a WSO, stupidity or any combination of, what do you reckon it is?

I'm pretty out of ideas.

Once you take those out, I think it may be a combination of things.

Human beings are herd animals. We evolved to function in groups, so we seek to belong to groups and be accepted by those groups.

Running an online business can be a very solitary activity. And because running a business online falls outside the norm of most peoples' social groups (friends offline, family, coworkers, etc.), those herds often cast out the 'odd' member. Or at least relegate them to the fringes of the herd.

They come here, and find a herd that is like them, and want desperately to be accepted. Being different is what put them on the outs with their other herds, so they don't want to lose this one. Being reasonably intelligent (remember, we already ruled out the truly stupid above), they try to fit in by aping the behavior of the established herd members.

Eventually, they either learn their place in the herd and become positive contributors who are excused the occasional 'me too' post or they move on to yet another herd.

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shane_k

12 years ago

if you think about it, this kind of behaviour is no different than when you are sitting with a group of people in the real world (not in a forum) and you ask a similar question.

One person will answer and a few others will say the exact same thing because they agree with it.

Maybe I am not as cynical as others but I think it has to do with agreeing and wanting to contribute and help out.

Sure it could be about increasing their post count or sig exposure also, but if look at it like I said above and notice that it is natural behaviour that even takes place outside of forums then I think what I said makes sense.

I think the difference is also that in the real world if someone gives you a one word answer you can ask them to elaborate on that, or say, "What do you mean by that?" In this sense you are starting to engage them in a conversation.

So you could also say that if the OP is asking a question and recieves a one word answer, if they are not satisfied by that, then it's up to them to ask the poster to elaborate a bit more, or ask them for more information, thus continuing the conversation.

if they don't then the conversation dies out, just like in the real world.

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Randall Magwood

12 years ago

Some folks dont read all the comments that have been made, so they just skip to the bottom of the page to insert their answer to the question.

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Isaiah Jackson 12 years ago

Originally Posted by JabMonkey

The reason is called "no time" as in "I have no time to read all of the other posts, so I'm going to answer the question and leave."

Uh..good post - lol

Originally Posted by George Wright

I think that comes from some giving answers without reading the other replies first.

George Wright

Originally Posted by Randall Magwood

Some folks dont read all the comments that have been made, so they just skip to the bottom of the page to insert their answer to the question.

Based on the quotes above it is save to say that great minds think alike, this will also answer the question.

Like those before me have said, some people don't want to read an entire page worth of comments and I don't blame them it could be time consuming.

Another thing that I have found when reading the entire thread along with all of the posts is that although some of them may be informative some of them will end up sparking negativity. I was just reading a thread earlier and seen the posts made by other Warriors, which could have easily corrupted the mind of the OP.

That being said some would just hit that "quick reply" button and leave the comment.

Ways to stick out from the crowd though at least this is something that I will start implementing and don't mind sharing is to start doing video response posts

Time consuming yes worth it you bet it is will you stand out from all the noise yes you will

In regards to the post count, I feel it is useless to leave a post on a thread that doesn't deliver any type of value at all, but that is just me. But some people on here would think other wise and you and I have seen them posting along in the WF

Okay enough with that hope everyone is having and will continue to have a wonderful day.

- Isaiah Jackson
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Mark Singletary

12 years ago

My two cents:

1. I think posts from posters that don't read (or at the least skim enough to know what everyone else is writing) are rude and goes against the family/giving back spirit of a discussion board. There has been a lot of bad advice given simply because someone didn't take the time to know what the discusssion is about. It's like they drop by someone else having a conversation and give their opinion without regard to anyone else and leave.

Especially bad are those that say "I'm not going to read all those posts".

2. If you have a thread with 50 replies, sometimes it's good to know that 28 posts recommended Paypal, 26 Clickbank, 14 2Checkout, 13 Clicksure, and 7 Amazon payments. Notice that is more than 50 replies but sometimes a "vote", so to speak, about a particular method or tool can be very helpful in the decision process.

3. Sometimes I think the 4 word exact repeats you mention may be some sort of forum spam bot. There are cases where the exact, word for word, post are repeated. Not just an idea or a list but the entire post.

4. How many ways is there to say "get an autoresponder service and start building a list?" Since many of the tasks, tools, and systems that are used online are very simple, a lot of it is repeats. For example according to big brother there are about 22,900 posts or mentions of Aweber on this forum. Is there really that much to say about them or how to use them or why use them? Much of that is repeats.

Mark

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sadneck

12 years ago

Its a term I have coined as "drive by answering".

It happens throughout many threads, and sometimes it not only involves these types of threads, but it also involves threads where people ask questions. Have you ever noticed how when your the owner of a thread expected to answer a question, you will get many people asking the same question, (even if it has been answered previously.)

Very few read every single post anymore.

The "Reserved for FAQ" works great!

Andrew

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cashp0wer 12 years ago

I'll put in a repeat post - good post - I notice the same thing also and have also always wondered why too.
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jamesrich1

12 years ago

Isn't it ironic that a post about having repeat answers has repeat answers, lol.

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IMHypeless

12 years ago

But...but how will I boost my post count then?

As many others said before (and this is not just the case with WF, it happens on pretty much any relevant forum on daily basis), people usually don't even read replies, the just go straight to typing.

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CDarklock

12 years ago

Originally Posted by IMHypeless

people usually don't even read replies, the just go straight to typing.

I don't usually have time to read all the replies to a thread.

I come to the forum and I have a small amount of time to see what's going on. Someone is asking a question. I have the answer. I am not going to read all the replies to see if someone else already gave the answer. I am going to whack reply and give the answer myself. Then I am going to leave the thread.

If you would rather I don't leave the answer until I've read all the other replies to see if it's already been given, I would be happy to not answer so many questions. That will save me even more time.

People have this idea that I spend hours in the forum. This is not true. I come to the forum for a couple minutes at a time. I read a little, maybe post something, then leave to do other things. I will do this on and off throughout the day on a half dozen forums and social media. But about 75% of my time is spent not being on ANY of them.

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Richard Van

12 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

I have the answer. I am not going to read all the replies to see if someone else already gave the answer. I am going to whack reply and give the answer myself. Then I am going to leave the thread.

Of course Caliban but I don't think you're the kind of person Andy is referring to. Your answers are very much worth listening to and I can almost gaurantee, no one else in the thread would have a reply like yours, even after several pages. That is a compliment.

If you would rather I don't leave the answer until I've read all the other replies to see if it's already been given, I would be happy to not answer so many questions. That will save me even more time.

Don't be ridiculous, I'd rather you carried on as you are now. Perhaps post more often.

People have this idea that I spend hours in the forum. This is not true. I come to the forum for a couple minutes at a time. I read a little, maybe post something, then leave to do other things. I will do this on and off throughout the day on a half dozen forums and social media. But about 75% of my time is spent not being on ANY of them.

I haven't seen you here or read many of your comments for some time. I'd prefer it if you did spend more time on the forum, I enjoy reading your posts and threads.

As I said, I don't think you even crossed Andy's mind before he wrote this and you certainly didn't cross mine before I made my first post in this thread. :p

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Andyhenry

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

As I said, I don't think you even crossed Andy's mind before he wrote this and you certainly didn't cross mine before I made my first post in this thread. :p

Nope - I forgot CD even comes here anymore.

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CDarklock

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Nope - I forgot CD even comes here anymore.

I'm very angry at this industry right now. Have been for a little over five months. I would not be good company, so I've been avoiding it.

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Andyhenry

12 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

I'm very angry at this industry right now. Have been for a little over five months. I would not be good company, so I've been avoiding it.

At this industry?

I'm not even sure what that means - or how it relates to this forum.

I don't consider IM as an industry - more as a group of people - some of whom I consider good friends and like to keep up with and meet up to chat with, and others who I have no interest in or desire to pay attention to.

IM is just a set of activities and relevant to specific people in different ways.

What the mass of people or even the well-known few are doing is really not my concern so I can't begin to imagine what 'the industry' could do that I'd give much notice to, let alone be able to get angry about.

Surely it's only people that you can get angry with - not "the industry"?

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CDarklock

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

I don't consider IM as an industry - more as a group of people

Yeah, that's kind of what an "industry" is. A community of people engaged in the same general line of business.

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Andyhenry

12 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Yeah, that's kind of what an "industry" is. A community of people engaged in the same general line of business.

Wow - I'm glad I'm just a member of this forum then and not part of this 'industry' you're angry at.

I can't imagine what I've done to make you angry but just the thought that you're angry because of what other people are doing/have done disturbs me.

Life's too short to feel bad about what other people are doing - it's hard enough to stay happy with what you doing yourself to add what other people do to the mix.

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CDarklock

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

I can't imagine what I've done to make you angry but just the thought that you're angry because of what other people are doing/have done disturbs me.

Why would you be disturbed because of what I am feeling/have felt?

Honestly, I don't see the difference.

Emotion is natural and normal. It is also irrational. When your emotions are out of control, you avoid the situations that exacerbate them. The endocrine system adapts; they don't last forever.

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Andyhenry

12 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Why would you be disturbed because of what I am feeling/have felt?

Honestly, I don't see the difference.

Emotion is natural and normal. It is also irrational. When your emotions are out of control, you avoid the situations that exacerbate them. The endocrine system adapts; they don't last forever.

Because you're person and I think you deserve to be happy - not feeling bad.

Emotions are largely under our control.

It's easy to ride them and feel like they control us - but most of the time we are their master if we choose to be.

Sure it takes time and practice and some people would rather ride the rollercoaster - but what's "normal" is not necessarily what's best or required.

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CDarklock

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Emotions are largely under our control.

I don't believe this is true. Our BEHAVIOUR is under our control, but I don't believe our emotions are. We feel how we feel and that's that. What we choose to DO about it is another matter.

And our choices of action have limits. Knowing those limits is important. If I can't trust myself to behave in certain company, it is prudent to avoid that company.

By way of further example, our strength is also largely under our control. I've put a lot of work into mine, and I can bench press a refrigerator. I cannot, however, bench press a Buick. It is no less unrealistic for me to expect EVERYONE to bench press a refigerator than it is for me to expect myself to bench press a Buick.

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Andyhenry

12 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

I don't believe this is true. Our BEHAVIOUR is under our control, but I don't believe our emotions are. We feel how we feel and that's that. What we choose to DO about it is another matter.

.

That's where our opinions differ.

In my experience - my emotions are largely triggered by my beliefs and expectations.

So rather than my reaction and behaviour being driven by my emotional response, it's the other way around - my strategy to reacting to such things is what guides how emotional I get.

So when I was young I would flip out when my car was stolen and feel like a victim, but now I just notice it has happened and find another way to get where I was going and do not have an emotional response.

I guess it's just a matter of priorities and relativity. I now know that material stuff is a very superficial level to be focused on so while I factor in what I need and want, if I don't get it it's not a problem, and if I do get it I don't get overly aroused.

So while I wouldn't say that we don't have natural emotional responses, in my experience - once they start they still have to go through our control systems, which can either have someone at the wheel or not.

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CDarklock

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

That's where our opinions differ.

In my experience - my emotions are largely triggered by my beliefs and expectations.

So when a person lies to you... representing that they will do something on your behalf... it is your BELIEF AND EXPECTATION that they will do so.

But you cannot control whether they do, so when they don't, you do not control this.

You could, of course, have chosen not to believe and expect them to do what they said. Some people would call that cynical.

Others would call believing and expecting foolish.

I am leaning toward the latter.

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Andyhenry

12 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

So when a person lies to you... representing that they will do something on your behalf... it is your BELIEF AND EXPECTATION that they will do so.

But you cannot control whether they do, so when they don't, you do not control this.

You could, of course, have chosen not to believe and expect them to do what they said. Some people would call that cynical.

Others would call believing and expecting foolish.

I am leaning toward the latter.

Of course - you don't control other people.

It's very common to set expectations of other people's behaviour and get let down, but as you rightly said - you don't control their behaviour so if your expectation is not met, your response will be based on how much emotion you attach to having it met.

Co-incidentally I had a very related experience along these exact lines yesterday. Someone close to me (the closest) just got screwed over in a way that will now cost me around $150k in the next 6 months. We were both aware of the outrageous behaviour and the negative nature of what this person (previously considered a good friend) has just done and what the 'normal' reaction to this would be from most people.

However, we both have a similar perspective about the part our own values play in such times and were able to immediately agree to just drop it and look to the future rather than go to a negative mindset to ruminate on the unfair, nasty, selfish behaviour of the other person - we know that feeling bad reduces our resources and chose not to go there.

This is a fact and I KNOW that in the past I would have gone to that negative place and felt quite rightly that I had been 'made' to feel like that, but now I know it's not true and I'm just sharing my experience in the hope that in some small way it may resonate with something inside you that understands this and wants to make more positive choices in some instances in the future.

I'm not beating a drum to try and make anyone think I know better about them or anyone else, just pushing quite hard to share my experience so that maybe someone who reads this thread and is in a bad place may consider that they may be able to help themselves to a better place quicker than they first thought.

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fin

12 years ago

Manipulation isn't complete control. You can believe something is behind you in a lucid dream, but when you turn around it's not always there. Manipulation is manipulation.

I'm surprised you're bringing up the Dalia Lama a lot, yet you have no idea what lucid dreaming is. Don't you know what enlightenment is?

Complete awareness. That's not just when they are awake. It's also while they dream and sleep. Buddhist monks lucid dream for years (Google dream yoga) and finally after a lifetime they are able to dissolve the dream (subconscious) and be in complete awareness. It's only when they are fully aware during wake, dream and sleep that they reach Nirvana.

And most will never get that far, and people reach it by shutting themselves off from human contact for years. That sounds like putting your subconscious in a cage, don't you think? Not controlling it.

************************************************** *****

Flight or flight response isn't running or fighting.

It's about anxiety, fear, excitement. Emotions.

************************************************** *****

You can't just pick and choose emotions as you please.

I've never said you can't keep any emotions locked up. I just said you're not in control of them. I don't know what that's so hard to understand.

************************************************** ****

Don't feel sorry for me. It was the best thing that ever happened.

EDIT: I think we can forget this argument/debate now, lol.

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Richard Van

12 years ago

Originally Posted by fin

Manipulation isn't complete control. You can believe something is behind you in a lucid dream, but when you turn around it's not always there. Manipulation is manipulation.

I'm talking about by definition, it is a form of control. I never mentioned complete.

I'm surprised you're bringing up the Dalia Lama a lot, yet you have no idea what lucid dreaming is. Don't you know what enlightenment is?

Dalai Lama, not Dalia, that's a misspelling of a flower.

I have been meditating and studying Buddhism for 5 years. Of course I know what enlightenment is. I also know what lucid dreaming is, I've read your entire blog and have been aware of lucid dreaming for many, many years.

Why did you wrongly assume I didn't know what lucid dreaming is? You didn't read what I wrote properly, here is the only time I mentioned it.

Out of interest, when I dream, am I conscious or is that my subconscious creating the images?

I only ask as you believe in lucid dreaming.

That was me asking you a question Jamie. Don't put words in my mouth. I was pointing out you believe in it. I didn't say I didn't believe in it, nor did I say I didn't know what it was. I've told you in previous posts I'd read your blog. How could I not know what it was?

You can't just pick and choose emotions as you please.

Never said you could Jamie, I said you can control and change them if you're aware they serve you no purpose.

I just said you're not in control of them. I don't know what that's so hard to understand.

I said you can change the emotion. You can't and you don't think it's possible because you've convinced yourself that you can't. I have though, in many areas of my life, so I disagree and was simply trying to show you that. You can't accept that though.

EDIT: I think we can forget this argument/debate now, lol.

Argument? I don't think you should come to forums when intellectual discussions like this appear as arguments to you Jamie.

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fin 12 years ago

I'm not going to argue over what it means. A popular explanation is:

You are the captain of the ship, but you don't control the ocean.

So no, you can't control your dreams, though I sometimes explain it like this because it's easy for people to understand. I wish you could control them and it does get easier over time.

But the subconscious will always fill in the missing pieces.

************************************************** ******

It was just when you said, "you believe in lucid dreaming."

It sounded like someone would talk about Santa Claus .

You'd be a great lucid dreamer. Meditation is one of the core elements to my technique, which I'm building up to.

************************************************** ******

See above.

************************************************** *****

That's cool. I don't have any argument there.

************************************************** *****

I accept it.

************************************************** *******

I say argument, but I really like these. I only say argument because sometimes I come across strongly to prove a point. But it's just a little battle to me, no hard feelings when it's over .
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discrat

12 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

I don't believe this is true. Our BEHAVIOUR is under our control, but I don't believe our emotions are. We feel how we feel and that's that. What we choose to DO about it is another matter.

I have read extensively about what you are saying ,and I can say that your statement is more or less a crock . Let me leave by saying that your BRAIN and MIND are two different things.

Take a look at the book 'You are not your Brain' by Jeffrey Schwartz, MD.
You might learn a thing or two !

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fin

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Emotions are largely under our control.

I don't think psychologists, people who have suffered from mental illness and their families would agree with you.

And they'd be right.

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Andyhenry 12 years ago

Originally Posted by fin

I don't think psychologists, people who have suffered from mental illness and their families would agree with you.

And they'd be right.

Thanks for making a massive generalisation, mindreading the people in it and then stating their opinion for them.

Your generalisation is wrong because I fall into that group. It's funny that you would even think that I'd say stuff like this just because it's my opinion without any consideration for whether it's true or not.

I won't bore you with my history but I'm talking from experience - MY experience. OBVIOUSLY that doesn't apply to everyone, some people are NOT in control of themselves in many ways.

My point - not that you're actually bothered is that many people do not realise that you can control your responses, emotions and behaviours to a higher degree than most of us normally do, and therefore assume that they're a victim of those emotions and there's nothing they can do, which for many people is just not the case and they could be so much happier if they were aware of their options.

It's like with IM - many people think that you can't make great money while doing what you love and helping others. They think it's all hype and lies - and therefore behave accordingly. They don't realise that their negative and limited mindset has poisoned their perspective and shut off from them a massive amount of opportunity.

like people saying that no-one wins the lottery and so they don't bother - of course people win the lottery but they never will because they don't buy a ticket.

But as usual I never seem to agree with any thing you say so no change there.

Thanks for your contribution to the thread.
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Richard Van

12 years ago

Originally Posted by fin

I don't think psychologists, people who have suffered from mental illness and their families would agree with you.

And they'd be right.

They would but I don't believe Andy is mentally ill, that is a variable that can prevent emotional control and once again, we have a lot of variables. I also don't think it's beyond someone suffering mental illness to recover and gain control over their emotions.

I believe the Dalai Lama is rather good at emotional control.

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Jill Carpenter

12 years ago

Originally Posted by retsced

Yes, it's an absolute joke. I hate those stupid generic questions that have been asked a million times already...

"What's the best traffic generating strategy?"

This question was only asked an hour ago and already it has a boat load of replies like this...

youtube
article marketing
social media
blah blah blah

Yes, but the internet moves quickly. A lot can change in just an hour.

Originally Posted by CDarklock

I'm very angry at this industry right now. Have been for a little over five months. I would not be good company, so I've been avoiding it.

Originally Posted by CDarklock

And our choices of action have limits. Knowing those limits is important. If I can't trust myself to behave in certain company, it is prudent to avoid that company.

By way of further example, our strength is also largely under our control. I've put a lot of work into mine, and I can bench press a refrigerator. I cannot, however, bench press a Buick. It is no less unrealistic for me to expect EVERYONE to bench press a refigerator than it is for me to expect myself to bench press a Buick.

Isn't the whole point to outsource everyone else to bench press the Buick for you and then take the credit for getting the job done yourself?

Anyway, I didn't read much else in this thread as I just need to get my post count up a bit higher.

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fin

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

They would but I don't believe Andy is mentally ill, that is a variable that can prevent emotional control and once again, we have a lot of variables. I also don't think it's beyond someone suffering mental illness to recover and gain control over their emotions.

I believe the Dalai Lama is rather good at emotional control.

It respect your opinion, but the fact of the matter is we DON'T control our emotions.

Andy rightly pointed out we can change things like our beliefs which will guide our emotions. But you don't control them.

If he came in and saw his wife being screwed by another dude he would be pretty pissed. He could tell himself there's other fish in the sea, but he still doesn't have final say on what he feels.

Andy can swing it anyway he wants and moan about his problems, but saying anyone controls their emotions is plain and simply wrong.

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fin 12 years ago

Or to put it another way: you don't control your subconscious mind.
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Richard Van

12 years ago

Originally Posted by fin

Andy can swing it anyway he wants and moan about his problems, but saying anyone controls their emotions is plain and simply wrong.

Well the Dalai Lama would have a good chat with you, as would most Buddhists and me.

Just because you think something is wrong doesn't make it so.

Out of interest, when I dream, am I conscious or is that my subconscious creating the images?

I only ask as you believe in lucid dreaming.

One more point.

If something pisses you off, you react in a certain way that you've learned to act in. If you didn't like that emotion or the response, you could very easily change the response. In time, the emotion would cease as well.

You can call me wrong all day long, I've done that with many aspects of my life and things that used to piss me off, make me laugh now.

Are you saying that's impossible and although I now laugh at situations that made me angry before, I'm not really laughing, I'm still angry?

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fin

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Richard Van

Out of interest, when I dream, am I conscious or is that my subconscious creating the images?

You can manipulate a dream, but you don't control it. Imagine your conscious mind having to produce every blade of grass and every mark on the ground.

Originally Posted by Richard Van

I only ask as you believe in lucid dreaming.

It's scientifically proven

Look, I've been though my own few years of problems, but I don't really want to start a pissing match about them on the Internet.

I used to have anxiety, depression and very bad stress (mental fatigue) for years. I could certainly control how I felt normally, but when my mind started to go I never had a hope in hell of controlling what I was thinking.

The main reason I get so heavily involved with lucid dreaming is because I knew it created a direct path to my subconscious mind. I used lucid dreaming to finally get over the anxiety. I'd wake up inside a dream and expose myself to situations where I'd become anxious. My amygdala would then realize there wasn't a problem and my flight or flight response would stop setting itself off.

Finally after years I no longer get anxious and feel free, but I'm under no illusion I control my emotions.

To say so is to say you control your flight or flight response. To jump of a bridge with a bungy cord and feel absolutely no emotion because you are tied in. I know you know that's not the case. In that instant your heart would jump if only for a second.

So that's why I have an opinion on this.

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Richard Van

12 years ago

You can manipulate a dream, but you don't control it. Imagine your conscious mind having to produce every blade of grass and every mark on the ground.

It's scientifically proven

Isn't manipulation a form of control?

I used to have anxiety, depression and very bad stress (mental fatigue) for years. I could certainly control how I felt normally, but when my mind started to go I never had a hope in hell of controlling what I was thinking.

Yes and I agreed earlier that mental illness is a big factor in being unable to control feelings and emotions.

To say so is to say you control your flight or flight response.

No. They are your most basic primeval responses. They are not emotions, they are reactions. Fighting and running are not emotions. They are a response to the most basic primeval fear a human can have. One should never want nor attempt to control that, it is there to save your life.

To jump of a bridge with a bungy cord and feel absolutely no emotion because you are tied in. I know you know that's not the case. In that instant your heart would jump if only for a second.

I agree and this is what I mean. Jumping off a cliff will invoke fight or flight. I'm talking about more basic emotions. I may get annoyed in traffic jams. The emotion I feel is anger. I can change that emotion by simply telling myself to relax, listening to calming music, whatever. Being angry in a traffic jam will not get me anywhere any quicker. In time, traffic jams will cease to annoy me. I have controlled that emotion in that situation.

Sometimes I feel down. I recognise this and realise I don't want to be down. Once consciously aware that I'm feeling down and that it serves me no purpose, I find it very easy to shift my emotion to happiness. That is a fact.

I'm not talking about the most primitive emotion we have, I'm talking about anger, sadness, being jealous, etc. These are all emotions that can affect us day to day. These can be controlled.

I'm sorry to hear you've had these issues Jamie and I appreciate where you're coming from but we're not singing from the same hymn sheet here.

I have very much enjoyed this discussion though.

Originally Posted by fin

It's two people coming from different angles, but I'd still say no-one has absolute control over their emotions.

EDIT. I think this ^ applies to us as well Jamie.

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Andyhenry

12 years ago

Originally Posted by fin

Look, I've been though my own few years of problems, but I don't really want to start a pissing match about them on the Internet.

I used to have anxiety, depression and very bad stress (mental fatigue) for years. I could certainly control how I felt normally, but when my mind started to go I never had a hope in hell of controlling what I was thinking.

Finally after years I no longer get anxious and feel free, but I'm under no illusion I control my emotions.

So that's why I have an opinion on this.

So - we're saying the same thing.

I believe when I started this line of conversation I put in caveats for such unavoidable situations. I'm sure of that because I was married to someone with depression for 10 years so that was clearly in my mind when I was typing, that there are people who are in a position where they are out of control and don't have the resources to resolve that without help of some sort (chemical, psychological etc..)

I would argue that your strategies for removing the problem you had are exactly what I'm referring to.

Sure you can't prevent the instinctual response - but after that, once you train yourself to spot those responses happening you can often put in a strategy for where they go next.

As Richard said - if you're stuck in traffic you can get angry - if you have no other strategy in place. I love being stuck in traffic because I use driving time as learning time or relaxing time, so I'm relaxed and/or learning regardless of the traffic conditions.

If I didn't have such a 'plan' for how to behave in those situations I could easily get bored/irritated/angry etc. - but since I don't see those conditions as useful I don't allow them where I can avoid it.

I'm not talking about removing all emotional responses - that would be a boring existence.

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fin

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

So - we're saying the same thing.

I believe when I started this line of conversation I put in caveats for such unavoidable situations. I'm sure of that because I was married to someone with depression for 10 years so that was clearly in my mind when I was typing, that there are people who are in a position where they are out of control and don't have the resources to resolve that without help of some sort (chemical, psychological etc..)

I would argue that your strategies for removing the problem you had are exactly what I'm referring to.

Sure you can't prevent the instinctual response - but after that, once you train yourself to spot those responses happening you can often put in a strategy for where they go next.

As Richard said - if you're stuck in traffic you can get angry - if you have no other strategy in place. I love being stuck in traffic because I use driving time as learning time or relaxing time, so I'm relaxed and/or learning regardless of the traffic conditions.

If I didn't have such a 'plan' for how to behave in those situations I could easily get bored/irritated/angry etc. - but since I don't see those conditions as useful I don't allow them where I can avoid it.

I'm not talking about removing all emotional responses - that would be a boring existence.

Yeah, you can definitely put great strategies in place.

I think a lot of it stems from beliefs, so like you said, if you can keep them happy it's a lot less likely you will go down the dark path.

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Andyhenry

12 years ago

Originally Posted by fin

It respect your opinion, but the fact of the matter is we DON'T control our emotions.

Andy rightly pointed out we can change things like our beliefs which will guide our emotions. But you don't control them.

If he came in and saw his wife being screwed by another dude he would be pretty pissed. He could tell himself there's other fish in the sea, but he still doesn't have final say on what he feels.

Andy can swing it anyway he wants and moan about his problems, but saying anyone controls their emotions is plain and simply wrong.

Yeah I love to moan about my problems - one day maybe I'll share them with you.

You seem to be trying to prove that your perspective is right and mine is wrong when what I have offered is my experience - how you think you can tell me that my experience is wrong I'm not sure and I'm not really inclined to try and work it out.

I think you're just generalising based on your own experience - which is fine, but to then say that any other perspective is 'wrong' is well, just wrong.

You set out a scenario and stated what my reaction would be - and you're not aware of if this has actually happened to me or not - and what my reaction was. In fact, I have been in many positions which I believe you would attribute base 'uncontrollable' reactions to me which would not align with reality so I would request that you stop telling me how I would react in certain situations because it's clearly outside your ability to do so correctly.

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fin

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Yeah I love to moan about my problems - one day maybe I'll share them with you.

You seem to be trying to prove that your perspective is right and mine is wrong when what I have offered is my experience - how you think you can tell me that my experience is wrong I'm not sure and I'm not really inclined to try and work it out.

I think you're just generalising based on your own experience - which is fine, but to then say that any other perspective is 'wrong' is well, just wrong.

You set out a scenario and stated what my reaction would be - and you're not aware of if this has actually happened to me or not - and what my reaction was. In fact, I have been in many positions which I believe you would attribute base 'uncontrollable' reactions to me which would not align with reality so I would request that you stop telling me how I would react in certain situations because it's clearly outside your ability to do so correctly.

I'm not trying to prove anything is right or wrong.

I just think we're looking at it differently.

You seem to be saying you can control your emotions, but from my perspective it looks like you're meaning we can keep our emotions under control.

It's two people coming from different angles, but I'd still say no-one has absolute control over their emotions.

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Yeah I love to moan about my problems - one day maybe I'll share them with you.

I don't underestimate what you've been through. I'd rather just not talk about them.

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Andyhenry

12 years ago

Originally Posted by fin

I'm not trying to prove anything is right or wrong.

I just think we're looking at it differently.

You seem to be saying you can control your emotions, but from my perspective it looks like you're meaning we can keep our emotions under control.

It's two people coming from different angles, but I'd still say no-one has absolute control over their emotions.

Now that's something we can both agree on.

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discrat

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

At this industry?

I'm not even sure what that means - or how it relates to this forum.

I don't consider IM as an industry - more as a group of people - some of whom I consider good friends and like to keep up with and meet up to chat with, and others who I have no interest in or desire to pay attention to.

IM is just a set of activities and relevant to specific people in different ways.

What the mass of people or even the well-known few are doing is really not my concern so I can't begin to imagine what 'the industry' could do that I'd give much notice to, let alone be able to get angry about.

Surely it's only people that you can get angry with - not "the industry"?

I got you Andy ! What Industry is CD talking about ?? All of this stuff that people talk about here and other forums are so diversified and so many different ways of starting a business online and offline.

Thats it I will say I am pissed off at the Industry of 'Business'

Makes no sense unless exactly specified !! lol

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Andyhenry

12 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

I don't usually have time to read all the replies to a thread.

Someone is asking a question. I have the answer. I am not going to read all the replies to see if someone else already gave the answer. I am going to whack reply and give the answer myself. Then I am going to leave the thread.

Dammit - When I read the other reply saying that it's sometimes due to arrogance I didn't actually believe it.

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IMSince2003

12 years ago

Becky, thanks for the viagra link.

And yes, I raise my hand for additional post count AND sig. exposure.

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volkansen

12 years ago

lol half of the responses are the same in this thread too

"they don't read other posts first" - "they want to increase their post count" - "signature exposure" etc.

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nasuryono

12 years ago

LOL - ever heard the term "the wisdom of the crowd?"

I think you are experiencing that first hand.

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Andyhenry 12 years ago

Originally Posted by nasuryono

LOL - ever heard the term "the wisdom of the crowd?"

I think you are experiencing that first hand.

I find other people's perspectives really interesting - as long as they're not all expressed in the same words.
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gpwilson

12 years ago

Believe me if i was in your position i would not ask this type of question. My focus is to get the perfect answer. If i get the perfect answer then what is the reason to think about repeated answer of the same question. But you are absolutely right. Those who are doing this, do not favor themselves and other as well.

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Paul Myers

12 years ago

Cali,

Should it be a rule that you must read every single post before offering a response, because you might just say something that someone else has already said?

In some forums, that's more than a rule. It's a "get beat up verbally by the other members if you don't" infraction.

Andy,

Emotions are largely under our control.

I think you two may be talking about slightly different things. At least, I hope you are.

Our immediate emotional responses to a thing are not voluntary, so they could be said to be out of our control. That would be a hard statement to disagree with in the "right now."

That we create the value structures that determine those reactions is also true, which puts our immediate responses under some long-term control, which is what I think you meant. (If I'm wrong about either reading, gents, please correct me.)

Those are not conflicting positions.

I think most of us agree that our actions are, for the most part, within our control.

Typed before I completed reading the thread. Some very interesting perspectives after the part that evoked this response. The wisdom of crowds, indeed!

Paul

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Andyhenry

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Cali,In some forums, that's more than a rule. It's a "get beat up verbally by the other members if you don't" infraction.

Andy,I think you two may be talking about slightly different things. At least, I hope you are.

Our immediate emotional responses to a thing are not voluntary, so they could be said to be out of our control. That would be a hard statement to disagree with in the "right now."

That we create the value structures that determine those reactions is also true, which puts our immediate responses under some long-term control, which is what I think you meant. (If I'm wrong about either reading, gents, please correct me.)

Those are not conflicting positions.

I think most of us agree that our actions are, for the most part, within our control.

Typed before I completed reading the thread. Some very interesting perspectives after the part that evoked this response. The wisdom of crowds, indeed!

Paul

Exactly Paul,

This is why I persisted with this variation on the subject of the thread - so often we have threads where peoples opinions are at variation with each because they are talking about different things using the same terms, but also there are times (like this one I think) where different people are talking about the same thing from different perspectives and seem initially in opposition, but when you dig down a bit past the point where to start to appreciate each others position (rather than just posting with only your own position in mind) you realise you're saying similar things, but that the focus of the subject area is just slightly different.

When someone responds quite harshly to a comment it's often because it hit a nerve and they perceived that it conflicted with their experience. When you share enough detail you realise that you both share a lot of perspective when you describe your position from an appropriate perspective.

I can say - yes we can control our thoughts and someone can read "we control all of our thoughts" and instantly disagree. But when you break it down we're in agreement when you get specific.

I meet a lot of people that 'forget' the level of control they have available to them and behave like they have no control - and would tell you they have no control until you get them to think about the ways and situations in which that generalisation does not apply.

It's the old Tony Robbins fire-walk mentality - if I can do this in 'that' situation - what else could I do that I thought I couldn't?

I'm always open to learning new perspectives and have complete respect for alternate ones - it's one of the things I love about this forum, you can get through an arguement and have a decent discussion about things you feel strongly about and gain new understandings.

Andy

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JohnMcCabe 12 years ago

Originally Posted by fin

Or to put it another way: you don't control your subconscious mind.

It depends on how you define 'control'. If you look at control like controlling the movement of a pen across a piece of paper, you are correct - you don't control it.

If you look at control like controlling a hunting dog at a field trial, a great deal of control is available over time. The subconscious mind is a goal seeking mechanism. Controlling it means setting the goal it seeks and defining what a successful outcome looks like.

Look at the way you explained using lucid dreaming to help with anxiety. You, in the dreams, deliberately put yourself into the kind of situation that made you anxious and then defined what you wanted as a reaction. That carried over to your waking life.

[Tangent Warning] When I popped the unread messages button for this thread and read the new posts - all of them - I felt like I'd just taken a right turn in a NASCAR race... [/Tangent]
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CDarklock

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Cali,In some forums, that's more than a rule. It's a "get beat up verbally by the other members if you don't" infraction.

That would be one of those "unwritten rules" I keep talking about.

I'm fine with getting verbally beaten up if my answer's already been given, but I generally find that's not the case. Usually because my answers are much longer and generally weirder.

Our immediate emotional responses to a thing are not voluntary, so they could be said to be out of our control. That would be a hard statement to disagree with in the "right now."

That we create the value structures that determine those reactions is also true, which puts our immediate responses under some long-term control, which is what I think you meant.

I would agree with both of these statements. Most negative emotional responses are the result of an error - and I've found it productive to view them as an internal drive to identify the patterns of behaviour and expectation which created it, so they can be either modified or anticipated.

In a relationship, for example, you might be angry at your significant other for not taking out the trash. This is because you erroneously expected them to take out the trash.

The productive response is to identify why your expectation was erroneous - does your SO simply wait longer before taking out the trash, in which case you can just slightly alter your expectation, or is it a battle of wills where they desire NEVER to take out the trash and expect YOU to do it every time?

Because then, you pretty much have to resign yourself to being the one who takes out the trash. And if that's not acceptable, maybe this relationship is doomed. (WHO THE HELL DOESN'T EVER TAKE OUT THE TRASH?!)

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Andyhenry

12 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

In a relationship, for example, you might be angry at your significant other for not taking out the trash. This is because you erroneously expected them to take out the trash.

The productive response is to identify why your expectation was erroneous - does your SO simply wait longer before taking out the trash, in which case you can just slightly alter your expectation, or is it a battle of wills where they desire NEVER to take out the trash and expect YOU to do it every time?

Because then, you pretty much have to resign yourself to being the one who takes out the trash. And if that's not acceptable, maybe this relationship is doomed. (WHO THE HELL DOESN'T EVER TAKE OUT THE TRASH?!)

Or - you could tell them what your expectations are and decide together what you want/need from each other, so that they KNOW what your expectation is.

That way you know they are aware of the effect of that behaviour on you.

Many times people will happily change their behavior once they know your expectations, but some people just get angry and don't enlighten the other person about why - which IS a recipe for disaster.

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CDarklock

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Or - you could tell them what your expectations are and decide together what you want/need from each other, so that they KNOW what your expectation is.

That would be the identification process I mentioned.

But when you tell them your expectations, the person who will NEVER take out the trash does not SAY "I am never going to take out the trash."

Because people lie. People are selfish, lazy, ignorant, and mean by nature. They won't tell you what they really think or what they are really doing. They tell you what they think will get them what they want.

If you think this is a horrifying view of the world, you may actually be able to figure out why I spent several months avoiding this or any other forum.

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Andyhenry

12 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

People are selfish, lazy, ignorant, and mean by nature. They won't tell you what they really think or what they are really doing. They tell you what they think will get them what they want.

I disagree.

That's certainly not my nature or that of the most of the people in my life. If it was - they wouldn't be in it for long.

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CDarklock 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

That's certainly not my nature or that of the most of the people in my life. If it was - they wouldn't be in it for long.

And you remove them because:

(a) You are selfish. You want your life to be "better," and you think it will be better without them in it.

(b) You are lazy. Those people are difficult to deal with, and you would rather not do it.

(c) You are ignorant. You don't know or care why they are like this or how to fix it.

(d) You are mean. Clearly they would benefit from your example, but you would rather deprive them of it, probably to punish them for being that way in the first place.

Fin points out people "wouldn't have survived long if they never worked in teams," but somehow misses the selfishness of "I don't want to die" or the laziness of "I don't want to do all the work" or the ignorance of "I don't want to learn every skill." Working in teams is the subjugation of a single natural desire - that to be mean - to satisfy three others.

What makes us human is the ability to transcend our nature. We are not required to be selfish, lazy, ignorant, and mean. But in the absence of social constraints, we are, because that is our natural state.

The overwhelming majority of people claiming otherwise live in a bubble of sorts, where they're insulated from most people and only have to deal with the things they've selfishly selected for themselves, since they lazily don't want to deal with the rest, which allows them to remain ignorant of the rest, and then meanly assert that these behaviours aren't "natural" - but that other people are damaged or deformed.

They claim it's not normal that you think you should get the last slice of pizza. It is, instead, a flaw - a failure in your mental makeup that someone, somewhere, has done to you. Maybe it's even your own fault.

It's just like diamonds. The natural state of a diamond is to be brilliantly cut and polished, as we all know, because they certainly do not naturally start out as dirty old rocks in the ground. That would be silly.
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- Andyhenry 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by CDarklock
  
  And you remove them because.....
  
  Hey, I know - it's your nature to want the last word on a subject like this, so I'm not going to play along and keep giving you a wall to bounce your ball off.
  
  Life's too short.
  
  You want to have a version where everyone is selfish, lazy and ignorant (which just happens to let you believe that you being like that is not your fault, it's your nature) - that's up to you.
  
  It's not my place to tell you what version of the world you should live in.
  
  I'm gonna choose a different one.
  
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fin 12 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

People are selfish, lazy, ignorant, and mean by nature.

Not by nature.

They wouldn't have survived long if they never worked in teams.
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IMSince2003

12 years ago

Wow, what a mind bending turn this thread has taken. It's a lot more interesting now. I agree with CD when he says that if you are in a bad state of mind, you should steer clear of things that exacerbate that bad state.Having said that, the WF is a great place to vent and can be a healing place too.

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Andyhenry

12 years ago

Hey John,

That's my perspective on these things too.

I've met a lot of people with varying problems which have been helped by putting in place strategies for when they happen in the future so that the same automatic response is not the only result.

Sure you don't control everything - but if you understand what's happening you can certainly weight the dice in your favour.

For example - I used to struggle to get going in the mornings, I'd wake up then wander around the house half asleep for a while, then have a coffee and start to think about what I needed to do that day and it would be a couple of hours until I was productive.

These days I wake up just before the alarm set time and my head is instantly where it used to take me hours to get.

How? because I program myself before I go to sleep and put anchors in place that pull me into the state I want to end up in.

The same as when I was always traveling - I forgot where I parked my car at so many airports that I had to come up with a strategy, so as I walked away from the car I would turn around and take mental pictures of what I would see when I was coming back to the car and then plug those in to be triggered upon landing when returning from the trip. That way I just got to the carpark and then referred to my snapshot and knew instantly where to go and what it would look like. I also supplemented that with actual photos and information when mobile phones got clever, but that was more as a backup just in case.

If you decide beforehand what outcome you want - you can literally program yourself to not jump into your default behaviour response - to many situations.

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fin

12 years ago

Nobody is touching my pizza.

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JohnMcCabe 12 years ago

Originally Posted by fin

Nobody is touching my pizza.

And I have the fork scar on the back of my hand to prove it...:p
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davepilgrimus

12 years ago

lol...This was a great post! Thanks I needed a good laugh today!

True. People don't read all the comments.

Guess we all like the sound of our own voice. haha

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