Is this an ethical money maker

12 years ago

Not very ethical, unless you have an agreement with the WSO seller. Unless you can really pull some volume, I really doubt anyone would be interested. It's a very thin line from what you want to do and keep selling other people's products and pocketing the money yourself. Who's to say you didn't sell it 100 times and payed out 5 times the seller?

And there are some other disadvantages for sellers ... like the inability to follow up with the buyer. Also, how about when the product is not an ebook, but rather access into a private blog? You're going to mirror their website?

I understand where you're coming from as an affiliate, but truly, if they haven't been captivated by the thread from the moment they visited it, maybe it wasn't a strong offer. If you didn't offer a mouth watering bonus and sold that rather the product itself, well, then you haven't done a very good job at being an affiliate. So yes, I'm sure by doing things the proper way, you won't lose sales as an affiliate..

Gabriel

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petemcal

12 years ago

A lot of people buy instructional packages online and resell them at a mark up. Ethical? I'm not sure it's unethical.

If you've generated the demand and can charge a certain price then I don't see anything wrong with that. You get the price you want and the WSO seller gets the price they want. It's Win-Win

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Joe R Piercey 12 years ago

I think you'll have a hard time to convince a product creator to take part in this.

I don't see what's unethical about it...assuming you would conduct this business honestly.

Joe
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Andy Fletcher

12 years ago

It's less an ethics question and more a legal question ... it's not. Don't do it.

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markjob

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher

It's less an ethics question and more a legal question ... it's not. Don't do it.

So you show me how its ilegal?

So what if some guy here is creating logo's at $15 and you know people how are wanting a logo for their company. You charge them $150 for a logo. They send you their requirements and you send in those requirements to the logo guy!! You would say that's ok because its simply outsourcing right?

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Andy Fletcher 12 years ago

Originally Posted by markjob

So you show me how its ilegal?

Copyright law.
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- markjob 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher
  
  Copyright law.
  
  But im not selling it saying its mine.
  
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Frank Donovan 12 years ago

Originally Posted by markjob

So you show me how its ilegal?

You're selling something that you don't have. Nor do you have a trade/supplier agreement with the product owner.

If the WSO owner decided to withdraw the product, you wouldn't even be able to fulfill your orders.
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sbucciarel

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by markjob

So you show me how its ilegal?

So what if some guy here is creating logo's at $15 and you know people how are wanting a logo for their company. You charge them $150 for a logo. They send you their requirements and you send in those requirements to the logo guy!! You would say that's ok because its simply outsourcing right?

Well, you are reselling someone else's product without a reseller license for one. The scenario you described with buying a logo service is not even close to being the same. You don't get the logo until you pay.

Why would a buyer trust that you are accurately paying for each of HIS product that you are selling?

I suggest that you get permission from the seller before attempting this or you're going to get hit with copyright infringement take down by the seller when he finds your landing page.

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RiuAkira

12 years ago

if it is not legal then it is not ethical

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brentb 12 years ago

Originally Posted by RiuAkira

if it is not legal then it is not ethical

So I guess we know your stance on gay marriage and medicinal marijuana!

Let's say its NOT legal to do this without permission... so just get permission and you can do it! - Case Closed
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markjob

12 years ago

I personally only see it as being the middleman. You find a hungry crowd, you know where to find what they are looking for. You simply give it to them for a small profit. Just like if you are using ebay and you find a hot niche. What if you know where you can get your hands on the stuff this hot niche wants? you source the product to them once they pay you. The seller is still getting what he wants.

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Rbtmarshall

12 years ago

After that wso ran its course here on warrior forum, then was in the small percentage that actually have staying power and went into clickbank, there would be no problem as I see it.'

what you are proposing is bypassing any type of middleman service. I doubt that anyone would want to go for that. The middleman: clickbank, warriror forum, or any other affiliate network holds accountability for both the product creator and publisher.

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taskemann

12 years ago

Originally Posted by markjob

I don't know if this is expectable or not so please let me hear your views?

I want to promote some of the good WSO's i have come across on this forum, but what i do not want to do is send the interested traffic through to the warrior WSO section. Mainly because i believe they could possibly become blinded by all what's going on in this forum and that would affect conversions form my traffic.

Could I instead create a sales page based on the offer/service and on that page have a PayPal button so when someone clicks and buys from me at say $17 i then go to the WSO seller and buy his/her product/service for $5 and of course keep the difference. This would mean that if ten, twenty, thousands, of people buy from my page it would mean me buying like hundreds of copies at a time. Is this simply being the middleman by finding something people want and giving it to them? The creator gets his sale and I make some off the top?

To do that you'll need a re-seller license from the product creator.

But after what I've read from your post, why not create a regular landing page where you describe the product, how it works, what it can do and why your audince need it and how it can help them and how it can cover their needs and then just simply link a "Buy Now" button to the WSO sales page/thread?

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Joseph Robinson

Banned 12 years ago

If the WSO's target audience is willing to pay $15, why wouldn't the seller just cut you out and raise their prices? The model is a failure before it gets off of the ground.

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markjob

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Joseph Robinson

If the WSO's target audience is willing to pay $15, why wouldn't the seller just cut you out and raise their prices? The model is a failure before it gets off of the ground.

Because my targeted traffic knows nothing about this place. They don't know that what they need is called "traffic ATM" or "viral social spider" {not actual wso's } All they know is that they need more traffic or want to go viral in the social media area. I can simply give them something they didn't even know was out there.

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Joseph Robinson

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by markjob

Because my targeted traffic knows nothing about this place. They don't know that what they need is called "traffic ATM" or "viral social spider" {not actual wso's } All they know is that they need more traffic or want to go viral in the social media area. I can simply give them something they didn't even know was out there.

Let's assume your students aren't mentally challenged though. It's only a matter of time before they start thinking "hm, I wonder where he finds all these things". If they're smart they're researching the product before they buy. Just takes one to find the WSO forum, realize they're being had, and raise hell.

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markjob

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Joseph Robinson

Let's assume your students aren't mentally challenged though. It's only a matter of time before they start thinking "hm, I wonder where he finds all these things". If they're smart they're researching the product before they buy. Just takes one to find the WSO forum, realize they're being had, and raise hell.

Why would they raise hell? If you buy something on ebay you know for sure that if its a new product the guy selling it is cashing in right? Sourcing from some China wholesaler. And sure if you do your own research and you find where he is getting it from BOOM! you found a great place to get XYZ from, you don't then go off on some rant to the guy you first purchased from saying you ripped me off!! He had what you wanted and you purchased it.

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Joseph Robinson

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by markjob

Why would they raise hell? If you buy something on ebay you know for sure that if its a new product the guy selling it is cashing in right? Sourcing from some China wholesaler. And sure if you do your own research and you find where he is getting it from BOOM! you found a great place to get XYZ from, you don't then go off on some rant to the guy you first purchased from saying you ripped me off!! He had what you wanted and you purchased it.

Completely different markets. You're trying to play in the IM field, where everyone is a potential scammer/spammer. Different audiences will have different reactions. A newbie who is being charged more than they should have been in the IM field is quick to call foul. See: 90% of every thread deleted from here ever.

You sure you understand your target market?

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Kay King

12 years ago

It would be a better plan to rewrite+update an existing WSO and sell it as your own.

...and they start coming out of the woodwork.:rolleyes: Wrong advice - this would be derivative copy which is still copyright violation. The fact that something "is done" doesn't make it legal or ethical.

I'm shocked at those who say they don't see a problem - a little critical thinking might be in order for you.

Who would provide support and help for using the products? No seller of a $5 WSO is going to keep answering your questions day after day.
Who pays for refunds? A WSO seller isn't going to send refunds to one person several times. What happens to your reputation when your activities become known here?

How long before you start just reselling the ONE product on your harddrive instead of placing an order each time someone bought through your page? Who would know, right?

Don't underestimate the reach of this forum.

You don't have the right to reprice someone else's product in the first place. You aren't granted the right to resell most WSO products.

So the real answer is:

The WSO section isn't a wholesale site where you can wheel and deal as you please. Laws apply - and forum rules apply. The terms and conditions set by sellers apply.

Members who prey on or violate the rights of other members - aren't members for long here. Good thing to keep in mind.

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Rbtmarshall

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

...and they start coming out of the woodwork.:rolleyes: Wrong advice - this would be derivative copy which is still copyright violation. The fact that something "is done" doesn't make it legal or ethical.

It is how one warrior has made $2 Million In 4 Years.

Don't shoot the messenger

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Kay King 12 years ago

I know it's done - but I would not recommend it. A smart person can take facts and rearrange and add to them and create a good product without outright theft. Let's face it - most IM methods are not anything new...just newly stated. There is seldom something "new, never seen before" when it comes to IM.

Most reading the advice would simply copy/paste and retitle...and be in trouble. Or they would rearrange some sentences or words and follow the exact organization/titles of the original. They end up in trouble and crying "so and so told me it was OK".

So - while it's true you can use information from products to adapt and use to create your own product....you can't just rewrite and resell without putting yourself at risk.

Didn't mean to shoot directly at you - I just know what happens when brand new people looking to make money read what sounds like an "easy" way to do it.
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markjob 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Rbtmarshall

It is how one warrior has made $2 Million In 4 Years.

Don't shoot the messenger

Yeah I read this thread too. Was an interesting read I must say. It went along the same lines as what Kay King said:

"A smart person can take facts and rearrange and add to them and create a good product without outright theft. Let's face it - most IM methods are not anything new"

And this is going to be something I will be looking at doing. Not to make a load of REHASHED wso's but to take the facts and rearrange and add to them to create even more value.

In here there is an endless source of good products but have plenty of room for improvement and that is where I can recreate with added value. Is that simply copying? Well if it is then i guess 90% of all the WSO's you see in here are copies.
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- CDarklock 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by markjob
  
  In here there is an endless source of good products but have plenty of room for improvement and that is where I can recreate with added value.
  
  I used to sell a course on this as a WSO. Sold a couple hundred of them.
  
  Just sayin'.
  
  The iffy part here is how the sale is handled. If someone buys a WSO from you, how do they get the WSO and where do they enter the vendor's funnel?
  
  Do they download it from you? That's redistribution. You need a licence from the vendor for that.
  
  Do they see the vendor's OTO and upsell offers? If not, you're costing the vendor an opportunity.
  
  Do they get on the vendor's mailing list? If not, you're costing the vendor a customer.
  
  There's a lot more going on than just the downloaded WSO. That's the real key, and it's also why you don't want to send them here. Not sending them here has value to you, and the general wisdom is that the vendor should be compensated for that value.
  
  Most vendors are happy to make a deal where you send your audience down a custom funnel, made just for your people, often with special bonuses and content created exclusively for them. That's what a WSO is, really - a custom offer for Warrior Forum members and visitors. If you don't want to send your traffic to the Warrior Forum, you need to arrange a different offer.
  
  And if there's money in it, most vendors will at least listen to your proposal.
  
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  "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
  
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Kay King

12 years ago

You are looking for ways to justify your idea - rather than look clearly to see where any problems might be in your plan. You are not talking "outsourcing" where you take a logo or similar order and pay someone to do the work.

You are asking about "reselling" a product - and most WSOs do not permit resalel of the product.

I can simply give them something they didn't even know was out there.

You would be marking up the price of someone else's product and reselling the product without the right to do so. You don't have the right to reprice a WSO in the first place unless the seller grants you that right outside the WF.

Sellers here would notice if one person is buying multiple copies - and track down exactly what you are doing. You'd find yourself unable to buy anything here shortly.

Stop defending your plan and look at it from a seller and WF perspective and you'll see the plan is filled with holes.

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markjob

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

You are looking for ways to justify your idea - rather than look clearly to see where any problems might be in your plan. You are not talking "outsourcing" where you take a logo or similar order and pay someone to do the work.

You are asking about "reselling" a product - and most WSOs do not permit resalel of the product.

You would be marking up the price of someone else's product and reselling the product without the right to do so. You don't have the right to reprice a WSO in the first place unless the seller grants you that right outside the WF.

Sellers here would notice if one person is buying multiple copies - and track down exactly what you are doing. You'd find yourself unable to buy anything here shortly.

Stop defending your plan and look at it from a seller and WF perspective and you'll see the plan is filled with holes.

Thank you, this is the type of answer i was waiting to see pop up. Maybe others have said it already but your explanation resonated with me. Cheers.

Thanks guys for all your input. I think I know what I will do with all my traffic.

Mark

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Michael Harris

12 years ago

Seems like a lot of work on your part,
especially if you take a moment and ask yourself..

If you had a product and someone was doing that to you,
how would you appreciate it?

It's out of the box thinking you are using and that is a cool thing,
on top of that you mention you have traffic..

Why not create a product of your own and plug your traffic
into it..

That way everyone wins..

All the best..

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markjob

12 years ago

Originally Posted by quantumtiger

Seems like a lot of work on your part,
especially if you take a moment and ask yourself..

If you had a product and someone was doing that to you,
how would you appreciate it?

It's out of the box thinking you are using and that is a cool thing,
on top of that you mention you have traffic..

Why not create a product of your own and plug your traffic
into it..

That way everyone wins..

All the best..

This was just a quick idea as im getting a ton of traffic after months and months of hard labour. I put this quick idea here to gauge peoples reactions. Its a great place to get a feel for this type of stuff.

As for doing my own product?? way to busy trying to automate my traffic methods.

Again thanks everyone for your reactions.

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Rbtmarshall

12 years ago

I don't think it would have anything to do with a copyright violation.

Hes not selling it as his own. He is adding his commission on top of their offer price here in the WSO section. but bypassing any type of accountability from a 3rd party

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rosetrees

12 years ago

I suspect there's a bid difference between reselling or outsourcing a service, such as seo, logo design, web design and selling a product.

Product producers, whether physical or digital always have the choice of whether to sell the product themselves or to supply them to retailers. If they sell them to retailers they are giving permission for them to sell them on.

For digital products a licence agreement would also have to be in place as it is possible to sell multiple copies of the same product.

Many WSO sellers have affiliate programs, why not use those?

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Rbtmarshall

12 years ago

Without a 3rd party middle man holding both the WSO creator and publisher(you) acountable, what would prevent you from buying one copy and selling it 1000 times?

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Patrick Batty

12 years ago

Hey Mark,

Personally I don't like the plan.

If a WSO is good enough to offer to your readers, surely the WF isn't something you should be afraid to send them to.

Just my humble opinion, for what its worth.
Cheers
Patrick

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contentwriting360

Banned 12 years ago

First, you must have a written agreement or permission from the owner of the WSO for you to resell his or her product(s). You just can't resell it without a written permission. That is stealing. However, if Warriors saw that you're selling a product that is exactly the same as with the owner, you may not attract a good traffic of buyer because they'll just purchase the product from the original owner. Not to mention that it's much cheaper.

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Rbtmarshall

12 years ago

Here's a known secret:

It would be a better plan to rewrite+update an existing WSO and sell it as your own.

People do it all the time.

unethical maybee, illegal no.

life is unfair.

Personally I wouldn't do it, the making money online crowd is not my target market

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contentwriting360 Banned 12 years ago

Not everything that happens in unison is worth imitating. Just saying.

It would be a better plan to rewrite+update an existing WSO and sell it as your own.
People do it all the time.
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- Rbtmarshall 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by contentwriting360
  
  Not everything that happens in unison is worth imitating. Just saying.
  
  I agree, did you read the rest of that post. I said I wouldn't do it, but why withhold common knowledge from a fellow warrior?
  
  I guess it depends on whether we are here to help or profit off each other.
  
  Thanks
  
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louie6925

12 years ago

Apart from the legal ethics and re-selling flaws in the plan, you need to stop and look if its even a viable business model!

Firstly, nearly all wso's have between a 2-10% refund rate, and you need to consider that, that is at a much cheaper price than you want to sell for! You will end up refunding plenty! Unless you don't offer a refund, but then your conversions will take a major hit!

Secondly, Back in the real world, one of the benefits that wso sellers really take advantage of, is the fact that their buyers will be added to their email list, where they can create a buyers list. That will remove that advantage for the seller, and sometimes that can be worth more to them than the wso itself.

Thirdly, Yes it is a question of ethics, and in this industry, if you even have to ask the question in the first place, then alarm bells should be ringing!!

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brentb

12 years ago

Also, you aren't thinking about chargebacks.... they would all fall on you. Since you keep buying his ebook, you cannot charge back the actual seller or your card/paypals will all be blocked and you will not be able to purchase any more... so you will have to eat every single charge back!

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Randall Magwood

12 years ago

No-go. Don't do it. Just sell and market your products in the "excellent" way that they should be.

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Is this an ethical money maker

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