This Is The 'Secret' The Guru's Always Leave Out About Making Money Online!

83 replies
Lately I have seen alot of gurus promise the world and leave out 1 important element to making money online!

THE ODDS Are Stacked Against You when you first start out online!

YES!

What was that I hear you say??? 'HUH... but I thought I was gunna be a rockstar and make 1 Million dollars before next Thursday!'

Well, I am not saying that is impossible, but there is a 99% chance it will not happen! Sorry to burst your bubble!

To really hit it out of the ball park and to succeed when are starting out, you have to KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!!!

But most of all you need a HIGH CONVERTING SALES FUNNEL!

It is not as EASY as it sounds.



- You need to have your own products.
- You need to know how to write sizzling sales copy.
- You need to know how to write squeeze pages and follow up messages
- You need to know how to do customer support
- You need to know how to deal with refunds
- You need to know how to split test, prices, sales pages, offer etc.

And more....and more.... you get the picture.

But no one really tells you this, most people get to a stage where they discover this far down the line when it is too late.

Lets face it these things take years of experience.

And better still, 97% of people waist more money trying to find something better or the holy grail.

It is a vicious cycle that many people get caught up in.

It has far more disastrous consequences for some as they quit their jobs, relationships, do not socialize just to follow their dream of potentially making it HUGE online.

That is what the GURU's are not telling people....and these are just SOME of the MAIN REASONS that people fail online.

So before you quit your job, and go after this dream of yours, remember this small piece of advise and commit to working hard, and most of all TAKING ACTION on the things you see, hear and buy.

I learnt most of my stuff by NOT buying and reading ebooks or attending those 10k weekend seminars. I learnt by studing what the GURU where doing, and their sales funnel process!!!

OK its not gunna make you a guru or big time marketer in a week, but it will give you more experience and teach you more than any product will I think.

What they do not tell you is DO WHAT I DO..... not what I SAY!

There is so much power in just buying a small product from a guru,, and watching and recording what they are doing....upsells, downsells, cross sells, and OTO are they using videos, where are they taking you and why???? You know the whole kit & kaboole. See if you can reverse engineer their system into your business..... There is huge power in this, and no one seems to do this!!!

With Marketing There is a POWER IN THE PROCESS! I like to call it.

Just some food for thought.
#ecret #guru #leave #making #money #online
  • Profile picture of the author Henry White
    Agreed! Listen to what the genuine gurus are saying - the ones making 8- and 9-figure (net), not the charlatans, the fake-it-until-you-make-it crowd - but above all study what they're doing from every angle! Then you probably won't need their US$2,000 mega-product in every format known to civilized man. Or, worst case, you'll certainly be able to afford it the next time it's offered.
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    • Profile picture of the author celente
      Originally Posted by Henry White View Post

      Agreed! Listen to what the genuine gurus are saying - the ones making 8- and 9-figure (net), not the charlatans, the fake-it-until-you-make-it crowd - but above all study what they're doing from every angle! Then you probably won't need their US$2,000 mega-product in every format known to civilized man. Or, worst case, you'll certainly be able to afford it the next time it's offered.
      Good thinking.

      Where my income did well, was to buy and just study their process.

      Even a $29 product, that a guru sells, watch what he does.... if he is smart and knows what he is doing....as stated above, you see he will offer lots of things, OTO, upsells....heck!... he will probably offer it to you for like $1 if you keep saying no LOL....see what they do? Study that and ask yourself why they do this? and then see if you can apply these to your business sales pages. MAGIC HUH?
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  • Profile picture of the author IntoughShape
    beautfiul post and dead on to the point.
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    • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
      I think the guru's tell you all the time or at least steer you in the right direction. The problem is people don't listen. I see it every day on the warriorforum. People rather socialize with their dreams and all rather than listen to good sound advice. I've seen funnels, I've seen your own product, it's all here right on the warrior forums, but people just don't listen. They see what they want to see basically.
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      • Profile picture of the author celente
        Originally Posted by Walter Parrish View Post

        I think the guru's tell you all the time or at least steer you in the right direction. The problem is people don't listen. I see it every day on the warriorforum. People rather socialize with their dreams and all rather than listen to good sound advice. I've seen funnels, I've seen your own product, it's all here right on the warrior forums, but people just don't listen. They see what they want to see basically.
        yup welcome to the online marketing MATRIX

        now where did I leave dem' pills...and stuff!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Gray
    Yes I agree, it took me a while to find a coach online who was 100% the real McCoy and didn't hide anything, when found him, it was the beginning of my success.

    Take time to find those who are honest and it will be worth the effort.

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Morgan
    This Is The 'Secret' The Guru's Always Leave Out About Making Money Online!
    oh no, you have given away the secret that many gurus didn't want revealed ! lol

    This post will be an eye opener for many marketers
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  • Profile picture of the author theory expert
    Banned
    Aside from me making $9000 a month in 9 minutes. The post is good.

    I think really the gurus don't emphasize the cons. They usually just gloss over or mention in passing for the most part. You have to really raise your own consciousness in order to see what is really going on...then when you do, I pray you have the wherewithal to do it.
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    • Profile picture of the author celente
      Originally Posted by theory expert View Post

      Aside from me making $9000 a month in 9 minutes. The post is good.

      I think really the gurus don't emphasize that cons. They usually just gloss over or mention in passing for the most part. You have to really raise your own consciousness in order to see what is really going on...then when you do, I pray you have the wherewithal to do it.
      $9000 in 9 minutes. Wow. Good stuff.

      But I sure bet it did not come with hard work, and dedication. But awesome.

      Dont worry I did not smell the cheese either when it was right infront of me.

      Tis amazing, how much money you can make from just one subscriber, using funnels and other tactics. Especially if you are good with copy!
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    • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
      Originally Posted by theory expert View Post

      Aside from me making $9000 a month in 9 minutes. The post is good.

      I think really the gurus don't emphasize the cons. They usually just gloss over or mention in passing for the most part. You have to really raise your own consciousness in order to see what is really going on...then when you do, I pray you have the wherewithal to do it.
      I think they do well enough. I mean heck you are a newbie learning something for the first time and I assume ready to follow everything down to the letter, like other newbies on the WF.

      I mean we can't expect a guru to hit them over the head with it lolol.

      I have had times though where I've felt like training them and sticking their faces in it like when you train a puppy. lololol
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  • Profile picture of the author entrepreneurjay
    Yep, yep it is really no secret that listbuilding, and product creation is where the real money is.

    I as well as hundreds of other successful marketers say this all the time. It is up to whoever takes our advice to listen.

    It is no big mystery.

    The mystery to me is why more people do not listen!
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  • Profile picture of the author critterman
    What a great post!! I have only been doing this for about a month now ... only made a little bit of money (still in the hole) as was starting to get frustrated until I told myself ... you have only been doing this for a month ... what do you expect?? I went into this with a realistic goal to help supplement my income not be an overnight millionaire.

    Thanks for this
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  • Profile picture of the author Amores
    100% agree. I've got back into "online game" just few months ago and was shocked by WSO here. So much cr*p for sale and the most funniest thing is that people buy it and then even thanks for that. I bought 3 and honestly just 1 worth it.

    The best learning process by my opinion is
    - take it slow
    - do not rush things
    - keep money in your pocket as long as possible
    - follow blogs/people who know what they are doing
    - read, read, read, read, read, read
    - apply and test
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    • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
      Originally Posted by Amores View Post

      100% agree. I've got back into "online game" just few months ago and was shocked by WSO here. So much cr*p for sale and the most funniest thing is that people buy it and then even thanks for that. I bought 3 and honestly just 1 worth it.

      The best learning process by my opinion is
      - take it slow
      - do not rush things
      - keep money in your pocket as long as possible
      - follow blogs/people who know what they are doing
      - read, read, read, read, read, read
      - apply and test
      How do you know who knows what they are doing???
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  • Profile picture of the author goindeep
    Im kind of agreeing and kind of not agreeing.

    I think it is totally feasible to make money from the start and I know of many that have... not me

    I think instead of throwing out a random figure like 99% its probably better to suggest that nothing is certain and as with offline business, online business is also not a sure thing and that failures far out weight successes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    Well look at how the majority of gurus make their money?

    By selling you their products.

    By writing sales copy.

    By convincing you that you NEED their products.

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  • Profile picture of the author Joshster
    I like the description I heard from a certain English marketer who calls it:

    "Chocolate covered broccoli"

    You have to sell the chocolate (easy button, $9000 in 9mins, etc...) or no one will buy it, but as soon as they bite into it they get what they need, the nutritious broccoli (or unattractive hard work).
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Awwww you mean you can't click the mouse button and $100 bills fly out of your monitor after all?

    But but but but you mean THIS IS LIKE A REAL BUSINESS AND EVERYTHING?

    lol
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  • Profile picture of the author WinstonTian
    Wrong.

    This is the reason why most fail.

    I repeat, people fail, because they copy.

    The right key to six figs and beyond is having your own
    independence.

    You need to rise and fall, and learn from mistakes.

    Winston Tian
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    Cheers,
    Winston
    The Beginner's Doctor

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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Ya know, these "You need to do the work" posts would be a lot more convincing if they didn't have signatures attached to them saying the same things they're warning you not to fall for.

      I've got a warning of my own for you, folks: The minute you see someone engaged in generic guru-bashing, start asking questions about the person doing the talking.

      First question: Why bash some vague and unidentifiable entity, using meaningless buzzwords?

      Answer: It's a sales tactic, designed to make you see the speaker as being on your side, helping you in the battle against "them." If you'll just buy their ... "whatever" ... they'll guide and protect you.

      Yeah. Right.

      A lot of the factual advice in the OP is accurate and useful. The emotional style has a whole other purpose, which is pretty clear if you look at the poster's history over time.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author David-JP
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post


        First question: Why bash some vague and unidentifiable entity, using meaningless buzzwords?

        Answer: It's a sales tactic, designed to make you see the speaker as being on your side, helping you in the battle against "them." If you'll just buy their ... "whatever" ... they'll guide and protect you.

        Yeah. Right.

        A lot of the factual advice in the OP is accurate and useful. The emotional style has a whole other purpose, which is pretty clear if you look at the poster's history over time.

        Paul
        Us vs. Them, and polarization is incredibly powerful. People love to hate and blame others.

        You'll also notice that in addition to not saying who the guru's guilty of not teaching you the hidden secret are, they will use a persons name when promoting the positive side of what they are teaching. eg. "John Smith is crushing it using this technique".


        David
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      • Profile picture of the author celente
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Ya know, these "You need to do the work" posts would be a lot more convincing if they didn't have signatures attached to them saying the same things they're warning you not to fall for.

        I've got a warning of my own for you, folks: The minute you see someone engaged in generic guru-bashing, start asking questions about the person doing the talking.

        First question: Why bash some vague and unidentifiable entity, using meaningless buzzwords?

        Answer: It's a sales tactic, designed to make you see the speaker as being on your side, helping you in the battle against "them." If you'll just buy their ... "whatever" ... they'll guide and protect you.

        Yeah. Right.

        A lot of the factual advice in the OP is accurate and useful. The emotional style has a whole other purpose, which is pretty clear if you look at the poster's history over time.


        Paul


        2 things.....

        1) There are no undertones here, I am not twisting anyones arm to buy anything. This is an open forum where anyone can openly share, tips tricks, topics anytime 24 hours a day. And I love that. So you do not really really have a point. This is not guru bashing, just the plain and obvious that I have seen.

        2) Going back and looking over your chat history....I can say that your input in here, use to be pretty solid, but now seems that you wish to flame users, and sit on the high horse. :rolleyes: What happend to the old paul. Oh well. :rolleyes:
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        • Profile picture of the author George Wright
          Originally Posted by celente View Post

          2 things.....

          1) There are no undertones here, I am not twisting anyones arm to buy anything. This is an open forum where anyone can openly share, tips tricks, topics anytime 24 hours a day. And I love that. So you do not really really have a point. This is not guru bashing, just the plain and obvious that I have seen.

          2) Going back and looking over your chat history....I can say that your input in here, use to be pretty solid, but now seems that you wish to flame users, and sit on the high horse. :rolleyes: What happend to the old paul. Oh well. :rolleyes:
          The old Paul is alive and well, managing somehow with admin and the other mods to keep this place in fairly decent condition.

          Your thinly disguised sales OP and lame attempt to discredit Paul is a major fail.

          George Wright
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          1) There are no undertones here, I am not twisting anyones arm to buy anything. This is an open forum where anyone can openly share, tips tricks, topics anytime 24 hours a day. And I love that. So you do not really really have a point. This is not guru bashing, just the plain and obvious that I have seen.
          Oh, I have a point, celente. It was phrased perhaps a bit less bluntly than is going to be effective. Allow me to rephrase it in clearer terms:

          Please stop using this forum as a self-promotional venue.
          What happend to the old paul.
          He spends the time that used to go into marketing discussion dealing with spammers, scammers, and the occasional long-term member who abuses the forum in stealthier ways.

          A bit of advice, sir: I am not going to play the debate game with you. You have your rope. Decide what you're going to make with it. A noose or a ladder. It's your choice.


          Paul

          PS: Nice edit to the signature...
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          • Profile picture of the author kaizense
            Well slightly off tangent but personally don't really bother about gurus or the entire culture of group of followers.

            That said mentoring, coaching are much healthier perspectives and mindsets for the parties involved.
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          • Profile picture of the author celente
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Oh, I have a point, celente. It was phrased perhaps a bit less bluntly than is going to be effective. Allow me to rephrase it in clearer terms:

            Please stop using this forum as a self-promotional venue.

            Paul, no need to rephrase, I do not see any rule in here that disallows sig links?

            Time to hop down off that high horse mate. Well...at least give it a go
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Paul, no need to rephrase, I do not see any rule in here that disallows sig links?
              You have been warned about this repeatedly in the past.

              A signature which is within the rules (as your original was and the new one is) is not cause for comment, unless accompanied by content in a post that leaves an impression of self-promotion.
              Time to hop down off that high horse mate.
              Spare us all the lame attempts at spin, celente. That stuff only works on the inexperienced.

              Moderators enforce the rules, which means telling people "No" quite often. When told "No," some folks feel the need to spin the situation.

              Enforcing the rules becomes "sitting on a high horse." If you warn someone before banning them, you're said to be making threats and power-tripping. If you don't warn them, you're supposedly arbitrary and unfair. If you disagree with someone, you must have some sort of "connection" with the person on the other side of the issue.

              Blah blah blah. Heard it all, hundreds of times.

              You've been playing close to the edge for a long time, sir. You got away with things you probably shouldn't have. You can either take this as a nudge back from the edge or you can jump over. I don't care which. That's your choice.

              As I said, though, I am not playing the debating game with you.


              Paul
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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                He reported me. Wants the thread shut down.

                Seriously?

                Dude, you may not believe this, but you're way better off dealing with me than most of the other mods right now. You've pushed it far enough that several of them would have probably just banned you for a month or two, rather than discuss the situation. And one of them would very likely just have removed you permanently.

                Enough of what you say has value that I'd rather give you a choice. And I know, from long experience, that you are not going to choose to step back from the edges and stay back from them unless it's a public discussion.

                If you were the only one playing near the edge, I wouldn't care. You're not, and every time some new person sees you doing it and getting away with it, they're going to be tempted to do the same. Having less experience, they're likely to go right over that edge into nukedom for spamming.

                They're going to be angry. Usually at us, because of what they will perceive as favoritism, in letting "senior" people do things they can't.

                Not a useful example to allow.


                Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author shane_k
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Ya know, these "You need to do the work" posts would be a lot more convincing if they didn't have signatures attached to them saying the same things they're warning you not to fall for.

        I've got a warning of my own for you, folks: The minute you see someone engaged in generic guru-bashing, start asking questions about the person doing the talking.

        First question: Why bash some vague and unidentifiable entity, using meaningless buzzwords?

        Answer: It's a sales tactic, designed to make you see the speaker as being on your side, helping you in the battle against "them." If you'll just buy their ... "whatever" ... they'll guide and protect you.

        Yeah. Right.

        A lot of the factual advice in the OP is accurate and useful. The emotional style has a whole other purpose, which is pretty clear if you look at the poster's history over time.


        Paul

        I for one get tired of people pointing their fingers and want to blame others whether that is 'the government' , 'the rich' , or 'guru's' for their problems or why they themselves aren't successful, instead of taking responsibility for their own actions.

        And Guru-bashing is becoming a cliche in and of itself.

        It's getting old and is actually quite boring truthfully.

        I know that people use it as a tactic in their sales copy to try and position themselves as "I am on your side, buddy!" and "You can trust me, I am not like them, I am different."

        But usually when I see sales copy start with Guru bashing I hit the back button because if they don't have the imagination to come up with something different than the same thing that everyone else is doing, then their product is probably going to be the same as everyone else's also.
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      • Profile picture of the author Simon Ashari
        I see guru bashing is still alive and well on this forum. I don't think any of them have hidden the 'secret'. I see high profile IMers constantly imploring (even begging) their customers to take action, build a list, etc.

        They have an abundance mentality.

        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post


        Answer: It's a sales tactic, designed to make you see the speaker as being on your side, helping you in the battle against "them." If you'll just buy their ... "whatever" ... they'll guide and protect you.
        Classic 'us vs them' narrative.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Simon,
          I see guru bashing is still alive and well on this forum.
          It started here in 1997, and has continued largely unabated since. There is little likelihood it will stop. Guru-bashing is easy credibility, if you don't get called on it.

          Plus, there are all those spin potentials. If the "guru" fights back, they're bullying you. If their friends call you on the BS, you can accuse them of sucking up or being on the accused's payroll. And the conspiracy theories! They're a goldmine, if you're a media slut.

          The best part of all? You don't ever have to worry about the effort of thinking, or even checking your facts. There will always be people eager to believe their failures are the fault of some repressive regime or thieving miscreants.

          Fun for the whole family!


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Simon,It started here in 1997, and has continued largely unabated since. There is little likelihood it will stop. Guru-bashing is easy credibility, if you don't get called on it.

            Plus, there are all those spin potentials. If the "guru" fights back, they're bullying you. If their friends call you on the BS, you can accuse them of sucking up or being on the accused's payroll. And the conspiracy theories! They're a goldmine, if you're a media slut.

            The best part of all? You don't ever have to worry about the effort of thinking, or even checking your facts. There will always be people eager to believe their failures are the fault of some repressive regime or thieving miscreants.

            Fun for the whole family!


            Paul
            I think you just wrote someone's next sales letter for them.
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Andy,
              I think you just wrote someone's next sales letter for them.
              Probably. For a book called "Confirmation Bias Secrets Revealed!"


              Paul
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              • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                Andy,Probably. For a book called "Confirmation Bias Secrets Revealed!"


                Paul
                Subheading "It's not your fault you're stupid, broke and fat"?
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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  Dear friends,
                  (And you are all my dear friends, aren't you?)

                  In the 60s and 70s, it was The Man who was keeping you down. Over time, exposure has pushed these villains back into the shadows, and advances in women's rights have changed the repressive demographic.

                  It's all so confusing, isn't it?

                  So, who do you blame for your undeserved state today? If you're convinced you're smart, you'll blame the real villains: The Gu-rus.

                  Truth in advertising requires that we disclose that this is a mythical categorization. An honest appreciation of reality assures us that you won't have a clue what that means, so we're safe.

                  Who Ya Gonna Call?
                  GooRoo-Busters

                  Yes, we are the world's leading authorities in debunking leading authorities. And that internal logical inconsistency doesn't bother us in the least. Isn't that a source of infinite comfort?

                  We're convinced! That should be good enough for you! Believe us! We're on your side!

                  Really. We promise!

                  !!!!

                  [Order Now]
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                  • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
                    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                    Dear friends,
                    (And you are all my dear friends, aren't you?)

                    In the 60s and 70s, it was The Man who was keeping you down. Over time, exposure has pushed these villains back into the shadows, and advances in women's rights have changed the repressive demographic.

                    It's all so confusing, isn't it?

                    So, who do you blame for your undeserved state today? If you're convinced you're smart, you'll blame the real villains: The Gu-rus.

                    Truth in advertising requires that we disclose that this is a mythical categorization. An honest appreciation of reality assures us that you won't have a clue what that means, so we're safe.

                    Who Ya Gonna Call?
                    GooRoo-Busters

                    Yes, we are the world's leading authorities in debunking leading authorities. And that internal logical inconsistency doesn't bother us in the least. Isn't that a source of infinite comfort?

                    We're convinced! That should be good enough for you! Believe us! We're on your side!

                    Really. We promise!

                    !!!!

                    [Order Now]
                    Paul,

                    Are you coming out as one of the evil gurus? Should we start an #OccupyWarriorForum campaign? Fight the 1%!

                    Lol

                    Caleb
                    Signature

                    Caleb Spilchen

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                  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
                    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                    Dear friends,

                    !!!!

                    [Order Now]
                    Paul,

                    Your order now link is dead. Please fix.

                    George Wright
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                    "The first chapter sells the book; the last chapter sells the next book." Mickey Spillane
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                    • Profile picture of the author The Real Deal
                      This thread has been a real eye opener for me in what's considered acceptable or not on the WF.

                      I consider myself pretty cynical when reading anything, so I always take any obvious financial interest a poster may have into account when reading in an online forum. However, in the WF I always thought that the value of the information in the actual post was the most important part, not the signature.

                      To me it's obvious that most people will design their sig to get as many clicks as possible, so I expect them to be hypey...

                      I don't know the OP or anything about his history, and that is obviously part of the reason for Paul's warning to him, because I have seen some other examples of posts that are fairly obviously "self promotional" if viewed that way. When they give solid good advice I never thought they would be considered a problem on the forum though. In fact, I just thanked Jason Parker for a post just like this one (that I thought was excellent) a few minutes ago!

                      Most people write stuff for selfish reasons. Often money, but sometimes people write stuff just to feel good about themselves...like we have contributed something and helped someone.

                      Regardless of what the reasons are, I think it's important to remember that most people who post anything online do so for selfish reasons in one form or another...
                      Signature

                      I've made over $6 million dollars in profit from simple websites, mostly affiliate sites. Click here if you want to learn my simple formula for success, and want my team and I to help you build your online business [WSO].

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                      • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by The Real Deal View Post


                        I don't know the OP or anything about his history,
                        That's understandable as the whois details for the site in his sig file
                        suggests he's using a fake name on the forum.
                        I wonder why?
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                  • Profile picture of the author Patrick Batty
                    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                    Dear friends,
                    (And you are all my dear friends, aren't you?)

                    In the 60s and 70s, it was The Man who was keeping you down. Over time, exposure has pushed these villains back into the shadows, and advances in women's rights have changed the repressive demographic.

                    It's all so confusing, isn't it?

                    So, who do you blame for your undeserved state today? If you're convinced you're smart, you'll blame the real villains: The Gu-rus.

                    Truth in advertising requires that we disclose that this is a mythical categorization. An honest appreciation of reality assures us that you won't have a clue what that means, so we're safe.

                    Who Ya Gonna Call?
                    GooRoo-Busters

                    Yes, we are the world's leading authorities in debunking leading authorities. And that internal logical inconsistency doesn't bother us in the least. Isn't that a source of infinite comfort?

                    We're convinced! That should be good enough for you! Believe us! We're on your side!

                    Really. We promise!

                    !!!!

                    [Order Now]
                    Those darned gooroos .. the getcha every time!
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  • Profile picture of the author SteveSRS
    It ALMOST NEVER happens that I buy products for the product itself.

    Why I buy products?
    To see
    HOW the product is delivered.
    HOW the sales funnel is build
    HOW they did their follow-ups
    HOW and with what they OVER DELIVER

    My advice to newbies:
    Choose the product your buy wisely. If a sales letter puts you in a mode to buy, I mean really convinces you, then a light should go ON.
    BUY it AND STUDY every step in the process and the sales letter and document it for your own use.

    If the actual product then helps you out that is only an extra

    -Food for Thought-

    P.s. I somewhat agree with the remark about copying, you should not literately copy but learn from it. And also; better a good copy then a bad newly created product / method / etc. !
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  • Profile picture of the author shane_k
    Originally Posted by celente View Post


    THE ODDS Are Stacked Against You when you first start out online!
    My thought is that is ok if people say the odds are stacked against me.

    Because even though they might be, I still have a better chance at becoming a success in business (whether online or offline) then all those other fools out there who are spending all their hard earned money on the Lottery, or at a Casino, or a Bingo hall, or on any other type of gambling hoping to hit it big but where the odds are really, really stacked against them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    Paul,

    Oh boy, when I first read the original post it simply screamed promotional.

    Then I read where you gave a very civil suggestion for the OP to stop it.
    Strike #1.

    Then a snark reply from the OP.
    Strike #2.

    Then a civil warning from you.
    Strike #3

    Now he has the audacity to not only stand behind his self-promotional attitude and disrespect the civil suggestion he also has the audacity to report you!

    Not my call, but I hope he gets some time off if only to forewarn others.

    @ celente

    Seriously, all you wanted was people to contact you and say "show me the way" and you would essentially say "For a fee I'll set you free."

    C'mon. Did you really expect that someone like Paul would not call you out.

    Digging your own hole.

    Jeffery 100% :-)
    Signature

    Entrepreneurs starting out and small businesses without giant staffs and budgets.

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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Jeffery,

      It was even more obviously promotional before he edited his signature to remove the "$9,000 a month" part. Gotta love it when people try to manipulate the context to make others look more extreme, eh?

      The "civil" part doesn't matter in a conversation like this. That's called being "on a high horse," which is not really much different than being called abusive for more direct language. The spin is something of a constant.

      This is part of the problem with letting people get away with things for too long. They start to believe they're entitled, and they respond reflexively to challenges. That's as much my fault as his.

      If I had thought that deliberate rudeness would have been more productive in this circumstance, though, I'd have chosen that route. It's not my preferred style, but I'm not allergic to it when it gets things done with less time and hassle.

      It's also sometimes the most thoughtful approach. It lets people walk away feeling justified and superior, and gives them "evidence" to support those feelings. In those cases, we both get what we want. They get to leave feeling like they won, and we don't have to listen to them any more.

      Everyone wins.


      Paul
      Signature
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      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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      • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Jeffery,

        It was even more obviously promotional before he edited his signature to remove the "$9,000 a month" part. Gotta love it when people try to manipulate the context to make others look more extreme, eh?
        Yepper and I almost took his original post and created a generic "Fill in the blank" post.

        Did not see the original sig though I kinda suspected it was .. suspect, lol.

        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        The "civil" part doesn't matter in a conversation like this. That's called being "on a high horse," which is not really much different than being called abusive for more direct language. The spin is something of a constant.
        Hat off to you sir.

        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        This is part of the problem with letting people get away with things for too long. They start to believe they're entitled, and they respond reflexively to challenges. That's as much my fault as his.
        Well, you have always given the benefit of the doubt accompanied by sound advise and that is fair enough most times for most people.

        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        If I had thought that deliberate rudeness would have been more productive in this circumstance, though, I'd have chosen that route. It's not my preferred style, but I'm not allergic to it when it gets things done with less time and hassle.

        It's also sometimes the most thoughtful approach. It lets people walk away feeling justified and superior, and gives them "evidence" to support those feelings. In those cases, we both get what we want. They get to leave feeling like they won, and we don't have to listen to them any more.

        Everyone wins.
        Paul
        Especially if the person is stopped from taking advantage of members. Thats the intent of his post in my opinion.

        You Walk The Walk Paul,
        Jeffery 100% :-)
        Signature

        Entrepreneurs starting out and small businesses without giant staffs and budgets.

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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Jeffery,
          Especially if the person is stopped from taking advantage of members. Thats the intent of his post in my opinion.
          I think his intent was to sell, but that's not the same as taking advantage of people. If the product delivers what was promised, and it's not sold to people who can't possibly use it, I don't see that as "taking advantage."

          I have no idea about his product, so I couldn't even form an opinion on that aspect of the thing.

          The problem with selling in a discussion section, as you know and as I'll repeat for folks newer to forums, is that it tends to proliferate until it pushes out the discussions. Soft-selling in a forum does the same, but it's more annoying to the people reading it because it assumes the reader isn't smart enough to know it's out of place.


          Paul
          Signature
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          Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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  • Profile picture of the author markcr
    Banned
    It's the same in ALL business. You need an edge, luck, timing AND if you have that you need to work it b*** hard to have a chance.

    All this "it's so easy," Click a button" "read a book" attend a seminar" and profits fall into your lap is non-sense.

    I know many people who would never even attempt to start their own business. At least they are wise in that they know the sacrifice needed to even stand a chance.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chri5123
    Going back to the OP I don't think "gurus" hide anything from you. The fact is that NO-ONE "guru" or otherwise can MAKE you take the RIGHT actions - unfortunately that comes from trial and error and loads of mistakes before you reach a level of success.

    I think this video sums it up WHY people don't take the next step:


    Is a long video but well worth a watch - the HARDEST thing about starting out is the belief that it will work for YOU.

    That is not just in IM but anything.

    Just my 2 pence.

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author gcbmark20
    YES YES YES!!!

    The answers are already there my friends!

    They are showing you their systems by directing you through their pages and towards their sales funnels etc.

    They would make far more much money by just helping people instead of sending them to dodgy products they have created that is just a bunch of ideas.

    Give people what they want and you shall be rewarded!

    Give and give some more until that subscriber can't wait to hear from you again.

    Even if you are promoting affiliate products at least make sure they are well worth the money and much more.

    Great post and honest too!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Give people what they want and you shall be rewarded!
      Even if what they want is "Free, perfect, and NOW?"
      Signature
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      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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  • Profile picture of the author Maui Joe
    Go make a WSO out of your post for the ultimate in irony.
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  • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
    Celente,

    There is a button on the forum, called "show your signature", that you can simply uncheck. I know many people that when, a post looks like it would be an attempt to promote their signature link, they simply disable it.

    If this thread is not self promotional, why not hit that button?

    Just food for thought

    Caleb
    Signature

    Caleb Spilchen

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  • Profile picture of the author tylerjaysen
    hey man...very good post..and to the point.

    Yeah all those things in your list that you mentioned..are a must...to make legit money online..and have a sustainable business. This is different from say...being an amazon affiliate...or selling kindle books...where you often just get the initial sell.

    Here..like what the gurus are doing..you are building a long-term system online that builds loyal customers...and a list of buyers. You must always run leads through a sales funnel...because people usually don't buy the first time they see your offer.

    And creating an online website...that is good at selling and converting...is an art form that newbies won't have at the beginning. As anything that's worthwhile..it takes time.

    So when you see a so called guru whos killing it...they usually have spent years grinding it out...and finally learning what works.

    What you said in your post....works.

    This is what I do now.

    I've found...that after years of jumping from one thing...to the next..to the next...that building a long term business is the only way to go

    This has to be the best way to make money in the universe. The lifestyle is one that everyone dreams of. But the gurus are selling the results...the dreams....after it took them years to get there.

    This is what the newbie sees....they see the dream..and don't realize all the grinding that went in to making the dream a reality.

    If I was just starting out....I would...pick a system that is already built and proven to convert...and ready to go.,...you just have to plug in to it and market it.

    Then...freakin focus...and stay consistent. Don't get discouraged after no sales from 30 leads...and then jump on the next thing.

    This is the recipe to make a ton of cash online.
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  • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
    Starting a business online or offline involves some risk, and lots
    of hard work. There are lots of things that you need to know,
    and to get right.

    Entrepreneurs have to be risk takers and proactive.

    At the same time, no one is hiding anything from you.

    Trying to reverse engineer what you see someone else do
    may or may not be a good idea because you really don't know
    how well it's working for them. Often the process that you
    observe might be someone doing some testing.

    Do what you see the successful do, but make sure that you
    are actually modeling success.

    Willie
    Signature

    Did You Realize That The Majority Of Launches FAIL?
    Here's how to do a wildly successful launch!

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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Caleb,
      Are you coming out as one of the evil gurus?
      No-no-no. Get it straight: As a moderator, I'm an Evil Tyrant.

      Sheesh. This isn't rocket surgery, after all...


      Paul
      Signature
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      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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      • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Caleb,No-no-no. Get it straight: As a moderator, I'm an Evil Tyrant.

        Sheesh. This isn't rocket surgery, after all...


        Paul
        The old Paul humor is back I see :-)

        Caleb
        Signature

        Caleb Spilchen

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  • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
    Banned
    Originally Posted by celente View Post


    And better still, 97% of people waist more money trying to find something better or the holy grail.
    Are those the one's in the weight loss niche?
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  • Profile picture of the author WalterWhite
    When i look at those HYPE Videos on How to make Money Online i cant help my self than to associate it with this quote "Love was invented by the poor...to get laid"

    NEVER FORGET THAT !!

    I promote the HYPE Products myself because LETS FACE IT clickbank is FULL OF THEM and sometimes I feel bad for those People and seeing a LOT of REFUNDS the last months !

    Because they don't see the REAL IMAGE and the REAL STEPS needed to make a MIN income Online...

    Anyway...I think in the near FUTURE they will ban products like this.

    Germany has already a new LAW since 2011 that all ADVERTISING CLAIMS must be true !

    So RED BULL kinda changed their commercial there because the fact "you won't get wings"

    Anyway...Hustle Day & Night because the days of MAKE MONEY ONLINE FAST are coming to a DEAD END !

    Only Authority sites,Trusted Blogs and stuff like that will survive !

    P.s. FORGET ABOUT SEO, LIST BUILDING AND OTHER CRAP !

    In the FUTURE sites will be ranked on SOCIAL POPULARITY and people will be contacted directly trough their SMARTPHONES using Social Apps like Facebook etc- EMAIL will be Old School !

    Google is changing...YouTube as well....Facebook Runs the Town and so on...!!
    Signature

    Please do not use affiliate links in signatures

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    • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
      Originally Posted by WalterWhite View Post

      Anyway...I think in the near FUTURE they will ban products like this.

      Germany has already a new LAW since 2011 that all ADVERTISING CLAIMS must be true !
      First, congrats on using capitals. I know finding the shift key and/or caps lock key was a long process.

      "in the future they will ban products..." I guess your not really keeping up with the times, as many products have been banned for making false statements.

      Marketplace - ClickBank

      As for your comment about "Germany", I think its kind of ironic you choose Germany, the country that respects the least amount of Internet laws (IE: Copyright - very much so not respected)...

      Almost EVERY country with an internet presence doesn't allow false advertising claims.... the FTC in the US, Canada has regulations etc....

      I don't know ANY country with a large internet presence that allows false advertising...

      But perhaps you do.

      Caleb
      Signature

      Caleb Spilchen

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  • Profile picture of the author Caleb Spilchen
    Originally Posted by krystalskull View Post

    Have to agree with you point. No doubt that they leave behind the real stuff. Your title sounded like some product promotion LOL
    Wasn't just the subject line...
    Signature

    Caleb Spilchen

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  • Profile picture of the author Joshster
    Interesting post! Got some talented people moderating this forum, as has been said you could write sales copy from this post alone!

    Did my post get lost in the mayhem of all this?

    Here it is again for reference

    "I like the description I heard from a certain English marketer who calls it:

    "Chocolate covered broccoli"

    You have to sell the chocolate (easy button, $9000 in 9mins, etc...) or no one will buy it, but as soon as they bite into it they get what they need, the nutritious broccoli (or unattractive hard work)."
    --------------------------------------------------

    It goes against the grain but is so true! Sell what people want, and deliver what they need?
    Signature
    Looking to form an LLC or C/S Corporation?
    See my review of online co's here http://ji1.org/LLCs
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  • Profile picture of the author Brad Berry
    This is Inspiring and revolting at the same time. We all know that to go this far, guru's advice is important and also doesn't matter at the same time. All we need to know from guru is their sales funnel and how we can apply it into our own business model.

    I need to be more focused on doing rather than listening and reading. Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      It goes against the grain but is so true! Sell what people want, and deliver what they need?
      You forgot one step: Promise 'em what they want, deliver what you promised 'em, and sneak in what they need.

      Been saying that for years. I'm hardly the first, either, although the phrasing is original. I got the message, albeit not quite so directly, from a movie I saw when I was a kid. 'Mary Poppins.' Just a spoonful of sugar...

      The idea probably pre-dates language. Goes back to the first Mother.


      Paul
      Signature
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      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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      • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        You forgot one step: Promise 'em what they want, deliver what you promised 'em, and sneak in what they need.

        Been saying that for years. I'm hardly the first, either, although the phrasing is original. I got the message, albeit not quite so directly, from a movie I saw when I was a kid. 'Mary Poppins.' Just a spoonful of sugar...

        The idea probably pre-dates language. Goes back to the first Mother.

        Paul

        “Men are not troubled by things themselves, but by their thoughts about them”.

        “First say to yourself what would you be; and then do what you have to do”.
        both . . Epictetus (C. 55 – C. 135) Greek Stoic Philosopher

        “What it lies in our power to do, it lies in our power not to do”.
        Aristotle (383-322 BC) – Greek Philosopher




        .
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Originally Posted by Horny Devil View Post

          "Men are not troubled by things themselves, but by their thoughts about them".

          "First say to yourself what would you be; and then do what you have to do".
          both . . Epictetus (C. 55 - C. 135) Greek Stoic Philosopher

          "What it lies in our power to do, it lies in our power not to do".
          Aristotle (383-322 BC) - Greek Philosopher.
          Is this the part where we're supposed to sneak in jokes about Old Blue Eyes and Scooby snacks?

          Great quotes. Especially the first.
          Signature
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          Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    After all these years, I still don't know what a g-u-r-u is.

    There are a lot of so-called "secrets" when it comes to having a business online, many of which, are no longer secrets when you learn their lessons. One of the biggest lessons I learned the hard way was to get absolute clarity on what I really wanted to accomplish from my own business.

    It took a few a years, but one of the best things I ever did was take a little mini-vacation away from all the distractions at a modest hotel. I had no computer, only a pad of paper and a pen. On that Friday night all I did was meditate and think. I learned from one of my mentors at the time that it was incredibly important to ask the right questions.....questions that empowered me.

    The following day, Saturday, I took out that note pad and began writing down my thoughts, specifically, on what I wanted out of my business. I then wrote down all my interests, my hobbies, passions, my strengths and my weaknesses.

    That night I outlined a simple plan on how I was going to achieve it. And I put dates next to them (not set in stone of course). There seems to be this new wave trend where coaches are telling people to "throw away those deadlines" or dates, which to me is silly because your brain needs a target.

    Putting deadlines and dates next to my goals was one of the best things I ever did. But what topped that was getting absolute clarify on what on wanted and why I wanted to acheive them.

    RoD
    Signature
    "Your personal philosophy is the greatest determining factor in how your life works out."
    - Jim Rohn
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Originally Posted by celente View Post

    What was that I hear you say??? 'HUH... but I thought I was gunna be a rockstar and make 1 Million dollars before next Thursday!'

    Well, I am not saying that is impossible, but there is a 99% chance it will not happen! Sorry to burst your bubble!
    Last night I was looking at the PBS documentary Money & Medicine
    and the presenter claimed that 50% of all the money spent on
    medicine in the U.S is waste. The problem is that you don't
    know which 50% is wasted.

    It was also noted the 13 out of 14 men doctors recommend
    for prostrate surgery do not need the surgery and would
    survive without it. The problem? They don't know which
    one of the 14 don't really need surgery.

    So it's not just limited to "guru selling" but life in general
    I guess.

    Everyone thinks s/he will be in the 1%. It's called hope.

    -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author Lakezilla
    Some Guru's do tell you this, people don't always listen. Of course there are many so-called Internet Marketing Guru's who don't tell you this because they are trying to sell you something!

    You can definitely make money on the Internet today but it takes hard work, time and effort.
    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author sylviad
    Originally Posted by celente View Post

    ...

    - You need to have your own products.
    - You need to know how to write sizzling sales copy.
    - You need to know how to write squeeze pages and follow up messages
    - You need to know how to do customer support
    - You need to know how to deal with refunds
    - You need to know how to split test, prices, sales pages, offer etc.

    And more....and more.... you get the picture....
    One other important consideration is the product choice. Just because it's a popular topic doesn't necessarily mean you can do well with it, especially if it has an overload of competition.

    So product choice is probably one of the most important "secrets". You can copy what a guru is doing, but there could be a lot of things on his/her side: knowledge of the product, who they know, support from others (backlinking, promotion, product creation, marketing, successful JV partners, etc.), knowing the market - first hand perhaps, length of time in the business, established reputation, etc.

    Perhaps in time you can compete in such an environment, but how much time are you willing to wait to match their success? Many marketers are impatient. So persistence is another key.

    You need realistic expectations and the mindset to do what is necessary for as long as it takes to succeed .

    Sylvia
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  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    It would help if someone put together a graphic or flowchart for new marketers showing all the key skills it takes, how many years it takes achieve competency in each one, and the rest of it. It's much tougher, in retrospect, to be for example a successful online marketer, than to become a successful local business consultant (I've done both).

    With brick n mortar consulting, you establish position w/industry articles, network at chamber of commerce meetings/rotary groups to be a speaker, meet w/mgmt teams to pitch contracts and get the work. Online there's a Lot more skills involved, like:

    +website design (html/wp/blogging)
    +product development skills
    +graphics design
    +video production
    +writing skills for articles/emails
    +copywriting skills
    +customer service/support
    +jv/affiliate marketing skills
    +product launch skills
    +competitive research skills
    +seo/link building skills
    +social media skills
    +salesmanship skills
    +traffic/lead generation
    +public speaking/presentation skills/webinars


    just comes to the top of my mind... all are required, and all are difficult, to do at a level that generates an income year after year. People should tell everyone about all those skills that are needed.

    I've 'made it', making a decent income, and have never worked harder in my life. And never enjoyed my life more... this is thrilling stuff. Whenever I reminisce and remember back when I had a corporate job, I always visit the www.dilbert.com site and say thank goodness I'm an entrepreneur, this last near-20 years. (^_^)
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  • Profile picture of the author Morphius
    The Tony Robbins video is fantastic.
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    • Profile picture of the author The Real Deal
      Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

      That's understandable as the whois details for the site in his sig file
      suggests he's using a fake name on the forum.
      I wonder why?
      I don't see how using a pen name on the forum has got anything to do with credibility?

      Lot's of people use pen names both on their websites and forums for lots of different reasons. As far as I'm concerned that's completely legitimate and acceptable.

      When I mentioned that I don't know the history, I was referring to this:

      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      You have been warned about this repeatedly in the past.

      A signature which is within the rules (as your original was and the new one is) is not cause for comment, unless accompanied by content in a post that leaves an impression of self-promotion.
      Signature

      I've made over $6 million dollars in profit from simple websites, mostly affiliate sites. Click here if you want to learn my simple formula for success, and want my team and I to help you build your online business [WSO].

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      • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by The Real Deal View Post

        I don't see how using a pen name on the forum has got anything to do with credibility?
        Well unless someone is famous in another field,
        The only reason I can see for using a fake name,
        is that it makes it easier to move on to the next one when you're caught.
        If you can't even be honest with your name,
        it's not a very good start.
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        • Profile picture of the author The Real Deal
          Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

          Well unless someone is famous in another field,
          The only reason I can see for using a fake name,
          is that it makes it easier to move on to the next one when you're caught.
          If you can't even be honest with your name,
          it's not a very good start.
          I don't want to derail this thread any further, but as I said there are lots of legitimate reasons why people use pen names. Here is a recent thread about them.
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          I've made over $6 million dollars in profit from simple websites, mostly affiliate sites. Click here if you want to learn my simple formula for success, and want my team and I to help you build your online business [WSO].

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        • Profile picture of the author Horny Devil
          Banned
          Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

          Well unless someone is famous in another field,
          The only reason I can see for using a fake name,
          is that it makes it easier to move on to the next one when you're caught.
          If you can't even be honest with your name,
          it's not a very good start.
          I suggest you count the number of members using pen-names, graphic avatars, and the like. It may take you quite some time. I'm certain they're not all famous in another field. And I'm equally certain not all are dubious as you imply.
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  • Profile picture of the author WalterWhite
    Please do not mention the Word GURU makes me sick !

    So much scam out there...

    Clickbank is a Playground for them and we are making them Millionaires over night !

    They are no GURUS...They just play in the right team in this game !
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    Please do not use affiliate links in signatures

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  • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
    Originally Posted by celente View Post

    - You need to have your own products.
    - You need to know how to write sizzling sales copy.
    - You need to know how to write squeeze pages and follow up messages
    - You need to know how to do customer support
    - You need to know how to deal with refunds
    - You need to know how to split test, prices, sales pages, offer etc.

    And more....and more.... you get the picture.
    So in summary, I need good advertising. Thanks for the big secret. They see me rollin' soon!

    Originally Posted by celente View Post

    But no one really tells you this, most people get to a stage where they discover this far down the line when it is too late.
    Anyone reading this forum is exposed to your "secrets" all the time.


    If you want to know the real secret why guru bizops generally do not pan out..... it's because they are printing info that you want and not necessarily what you need. When they frame the bizop out as easy money with no experience necessary, that puts serious limitations on what they can talk about.

    Ultimately it comes down to the natural born ignorance of people honestly believing they can reach the income level of a doctor (11 years of schooling) after just one evening of going through course materials they probably didn't even pay $100 for.

    I'm hard on the gurus, yet at the same time there is a very demanding marketplace throwing money at this material. In the words of comedian Ron White, you can't fix stupid.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Rob,
      I don't see how using a pen name on the forum has got anything to do with credibility?
      A lot, for many people. Ultimately, though, credibility is a subjective matter.

      My personal view: If a person isn't selling anything here, or trying to push an agenda that's destructive to someone else, I don't really care if they're functionally anonymous.

      One small caveat: If you're new, completely anonymous, and cross the lines, I'm much more likely to just hit the ban button. It's not like you have any real investment in that account, after all.

      If you're selling something, that's a whole other issue. If there's a complaint and I see user12345[at]g-mail[dot]com as the address, no domain connected or one with "private" registration, and no real way to know who's actually making the offer... Let's just say your credibility drops a lot. And yes, that does affect how I choose to act on a complaint.

      Some people don't care at all. For others, it's a big issue. And for people who've moderated here, like Les, it's a Big Red Flag. For moderators, a big chunk of the process is about patterns.

      For example, most people seeing posts from a new account with the username robertwilliams634 would assume they're reading a comment by someone named Robert Williams. A moderator here would assume the person was, 9 times out of 10, an Indian or Bangladeshi spammer. And, at least that 9 times out of 10, we'd be right. Because that's one of their patterns.

      If you're in Madras and claim to be in Madras, your location is irrelevant. If you're in Madras and claim to be in NYC, you've become suspicious. That hurts you if there are questions. That's part of the pattern of a specific type of problem poster.

      If you're posting from Dubai or Pakistan or Singapore and use an avatar of a busty northern-European woman, we know what that's usually about, too. You don't get any extra chances with that pattern. Cross one line and you're gone.

      If you've been using the same pseudonym for years and never been a problem, we don't care what you call yourself. One of my favorite totally online acquaintances is someone whose name I don't know. He's used the same pseudonym for longer than I've been online. I read his name somewhere once, but by then I didn't care enough to remember. I would never have cause to use it.

      A consistent individual pattern matters, too. Good or bad.


      Paul
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      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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