Is it irrational to dislike MLM related stuff?

151 replies
Hey guys,

I have been involved in online marketing for around 6 months.
And I have an instant aversion to anything MLM related...NM isn't far behind and I avoid it unless it's totally irresistible...

Do you guys think I'm crazy, should I just do whatever to make money?

Edit: I should add that I am into "Law of Attraction" type stuff and definitely want to pay forward and help and inspire others to achieve success on my way to personal success. I also have significant personal goals too
#dislike #irrational #mlm #network marketing #related #stuff
  • Profile picture of the author jamiebarclay
    Hey there,

    You have asked a great question.

    Most people that get into the Internet Marketing space or MLM or Network Marketing get into the business for the wrong reasons.

    Obviously the point of business it to make money, but unfortunately it is not that simple. People never really take into account the human aspect of business and the purpose of doing the business.

    If you are entering a business just for the sake of making a quick buck then this will usually not be enough to drive you to success.

    When thinking about a business, think long term like could I see myself doing this in 12 months time, and could I see myself doing this in 3 to 5 years.

    Also asks yourself what is the purpose of me doing this business. Your 'why' is more important than the money. The money will show up when you have clarified in your mind why you are doing something.

    MLM and Network Marketing is a way to leverage somebody else's system to make money. But at the end of the day if you dislike the business model and don't see yourself calling people and convincing them of a business model you are not passionate about then I would not get into it.

    Any questions let me know
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert X
    I have seen it work for others and I have had a little success myself but I never stayed with it. I think that's a big problem that everyone has is not staying with any money making opportunity long eneough to make it work

    Robert X
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    • Profile picture of the author David-JP
      The main problem I have with with MLM is that you are building someone else's business. You are building them a sales network which you have little control over. They can change terms, payouts or go out of business. At least if you are an affiliate marketer who has a list, you can change the product you are promoting if the product is bad, or payments arent made properly. You have some control over the sales network.

      David
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      • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
        Originally Posted by David-JP View Post

        The main problem I have with with MLM is that you are building someone else's business. You are building them a sales network which you have little control over. They can change terms, payouts or go out of business. At least if you are an affiliate marketer who has a list, you can change the product you are promoting if the product is bad, or payments arent made properly. You have some control over the sales network.

        David
        With the vast majority of mlm companies you can build your own list, so that's not even an issue. The important thing here is that if someone is interested in a mlm opportunity, they shouldn't be convinced by someone at a meeting or by watching an online presentation.

        One should do their own research, talk to the leadership of that company, and see if the information is solid......if proven numbers are hard to come by (or none at all) then that's a major red flag. Any legitimate mlm company that cares of their distributors / members will have nothing to hide and will gladly share their figures with you.

        I generally don't like to jump into mlm threads because it's usually full of nonsense and a lot of ignorance. There's one fact that escapes most people in this forum: that there are a lot of well-known Warriors who use mlm as one of their multiple income streams.

        Yes, mlm has bad apples, so does IM, so does the forex market, so does Wallstreet, etc. So yes, I think it's irrational to dislike mlm-related stuff because you have to ask yourself, where does that "dislike" actually come from? Is it coming from stuff you've read in a forum? Is from one bad experience (or two) by sitting at a high-pressure Quixtar meeting?

        Or is the dislike coming after doing research of the industry? The industry isn't for everybody.

        RoD
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      • Profile picture of the author HealthBuff
        Originally Posted by David-JP View Post

        The main problem I have with with MLM is that you are building someone else's business. You are building them a sales network which you have little control over. They can change terms, payouts or go out of business. At least if you are an affiliate marketer who has a list, you can change the product you are promoting if the product is bad, or payments arent made properly. You have some control over the sales network.

        David
        I suggest David you never purchase any groceries or take aways - you will be in grave danger of building some one elses business - which of course you couldn't abide to do!
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  • Profile picture of the author O0o0O
    If you look at it from the Law of Attraction standpoint, your destiny is the subject you think about. So, if you're thinking about "I don't like MLM", then the subject is MLM, and you will therefore attract MLM. If you're thinking about "I want to avoid NM", then the subject is NM, and you will attract NM... and so on.

    That being said, if you're thinking about "Do whatever just to make money", you're thinking about money, and you will attract money from all sorts of avenues - both good and bad.

    The Law of Attraction works well for you, but only if you do it right. For example, if all you think about is MLM, then you will end up doing MLM just for the sake of doing MLM and for no other reason but that. Time will pass you by and you will find yourself in MLM after MLM going nowhere. The same goes for NM and money. If all you think about is "getting more money", then you will never be satisfied because no matter how much money you attract to yourself, you will never have enough, because you will always be thinking about "getting more money". (Have you ever asked your spouse: "Hey, want to plan a trip for next year?" and they say "No, I'm not thinking about that. I'm focused on getting more money." Not good.)

    The solution is to think about it the right way. For example: "I want to make enough money so I can enjoy a relaxing day in the Caribbean with my family." Now... this thinking will attract you money, a relaxing day, the Caribbean, and an enjoyable time with your family. When you think about something, you've got to think about exactly what you want.

    So, yes, you can dislike MLM if you want to. You can like it if you want to as well. But whether you like it or not, if you choose to use it as a tool to help you reach your goal, it may begin to work. And when it begins to work, you may begin to like it. If you like the tool, then use it. Hope this helps. :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
    If you align with the correct MLM company and the correct TEAM.... Absolutely nothing wrong with MLM. It's strictly a marketing and distribution channel.

    MLM has come a long way. Of course there are still some companies and teams that live in the past and still give it a bad rap. Just stay away from these.

    Now for my big hint: As you build a downline team, ALWAYS make sure you have a way to contact each member. Then, if you did pick a bad company that starts changing things or goes under, just contact your team and move to another company. It's basically the same thing as changing affiliate links.

    Now MLM is no different then any other business model when it comes to.... YES you have to actually work the business!

    The main benefit that MLM can produce is a very large residual income that can last an extremely long time after you quit working and retire.

    Next hint: STAY AWAY from new MLM companies that don't have proven long term records. Also check with the BBB to see how they rate them. Also DO NOT join a team that is not going to HELP you to become a success.

    I'll shut up now.

    Re's
    Rob
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  • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
    You're not alone. Many, MANY people dislike MLM/network marketing. Unfortunately, it has a bad reputation for several reasons.

    HOWEVER, it's important to understand what network marketing IS. Network marketing is nothing more than a business model. That's it!

    If MLM makes your skin crawl, then don't do it. It's just that simple.

    If you think you might like to be involved with MLM, it's a good idea to be clear about several things:

    1. MLM is a business model and distribution channel (nothing more).

    2. If you're considering an MLM company, go with one that's been around a while and has a solid reputation. (Herbalife, Mary Kay, etc., come to mind.)

    3. Understand that recruiting other distributors is part of the business model and be willing to do it to be successful.

    4. Treat it like a business and get the training you need.

    I can't stress this enough!

    Most MLM's don't offer anywhere near enough training, in spite of their "complete training programs." DaniJohnson.com is one such independent company (not affiliated with any particular MLM company) that specializes in training MLMers to succeed in MLM. (Dani Johnson is a multi-millionaire and made her millions in MLM. She has also been featured on ABC's Secret Millionaire.)

    I've been involved in a couple of MLM's over the years (back when I was much younger and very green). I never made ANY money, but that was because I knew ZIP about business. The companies are very reputable.

    I'm not personally involved with any MLM right now, but I DO know that MLM is not a scam, like so many think it is. Unfortunately, there are a lot of shysters.

    MLM tends to attract Harriet Housewife and Joe Beer Belly who know ZIP about business and worse, aren't interested in learning and actually treating their business LIKE A BUSINESS.

    Most people with an MLM wrongly think they're in the MLM business. They're not. They're in the nutrition business, the beauty business, the financial planning business, etc. MLM is just the business model!

    If you're eying an MLM company you like, consider it. But if you decide to go with it, make sure you get involved with a good upline/team. (Or get the support you need from a company like DaniJohnson.com to be successful.)

    If the whole idea gives you the heebie jeebies, forget about it.

    Your level of understanding about your MLM business, your training and your personal feelings about it will determine your success. If you feel slimy, embarrassed or awkward about your MLM business, you probably won't do what it takes to succeed.

    Knowing what I know now, I could probably get involved with an MLM and be successful at it. However, I'm working on building my own company. I deliberately chose not to get involved with MLM because unfortunately, MLMers have a handicap right from the start:

    So many hate MLM sight unseen that the MLMers start with one foot in the hole. They have to get past the MLM objection/misunderstanding before they can even talk about their business. Personally, I don't want the deck stacked against me like that.

    Hope that all makes sense!

    Michelle
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    • Profile picture of the author kaizense
      There are really some good replies in this thread. Yeah MLM does have a bad rep in quite a couple of ways. MLM as an idea is actually pretty ok. The execution of it though can really suck big time eg pipedreams mlm. MLM based on solid/good products and services are a step in the right direction. And some of this companies are listed on stock exchanges.

      That said, it's gonna be a lot healtier for you to focus on what you wanna do rather than what you don't want to do or averse to. Just let it slight and be neutral about it. It's perfectly fine though to say nah selling pipe dreams without anything to back it up just ain't my style
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
      Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post

      I've been involved in a couple of MLM's over the years (back when I was much younger and very green). I never made ANY money, but that was because I knew ZIP about business. The companies are very reputable.
      But did you learn from those reputable companies that you would need to have a business background to succeed? Or did they sell you the promise of an instant business and all the training needed for anyone to succeed in it? If it's the latter, then maybe the good reputation isn't so well deserved.

      As a matter of fact, the term "reputable company" is totally meaningless, since companies spend millions to control their image to sell more; not to give people a clear picture or the good and bad.

      If companies were forced to advertise their dark side, many would lose 99% of their customers instantly; a lot of people have been murdered by proxies to enhance the profits of companies that remain respected, household names. When hundreds of millions or billions are at stake, the gloves often come off.

      Ford motor company, and I believe the bulk of the biggest oil companies at the time, gave preferential treatment to their Nazi customer over the US during WWII; they played both sides, but many expected and preferred that the Nazis would succeed. Somehow I doubt that played prominently in company literature and ads in the US.

      I suspect not many people would have joined Mary Kaye, had the brochure contained pictures of some of the thousands of cute little bunnies with "scientists" dropping chemicals in their eyes to see how fast they would burn, alongside the pretty pink Caddies. But it matters not; the company remains one of the most "reputable" of MLMs; truth and reputation are distant cousins at best.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joshster
    Wow some great replies...have given me a new perspective on the whole thing...

    It makes me realize that it's the whole thing of selling to a crowd who are most likely not going to succeed due to the fact that they are looking for an easy button...But it is these very people who are funding the top ~20%.

    Perhaps that is why I have such a hard time being comfortable with marketing as a whole. It certainly helps to clarify and understand that basic premise.

    On the other hand if I look at it with LOA twist then, it becomes simply a matter of offering people a chance to better themselves. But that they have to actively grab hold of it, and not to feel bad that the majority will miss the target...Since they have had every chance.

    This is like a brilliant therapy session for me, WOW thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author StefanPaulGeorgi
    My issue with MLM is that it's not focused...

    MLM Person: "We're selling this great product, so you can get lots of other people to sign up and sell this product too."

    Me: "But, like, can I focus on just selling the product?"

    MLM Person: "Errrrr. I guess you could actually sell the product. I don't know...No one really does that..."

    In other words, it seems to me like the "product" in MLM is essentially just your "bait" for signing up more people, who you then train to sign up even more people, getting revenue every time you do.

    So you can clearly make money in MLM, but it's hard for me to think of it in flattering terms...

    In my mind, that makes your aversion quite rational.
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    • Profile picture of the author DGFletcher
      Originally Posted by StefanPaulGeorgi View Post

      My issue with MLM is that it's not focused...

      MLM Person: "We're selling this great product, so you can get lots of other people to sign up and sell this product too."

      Me: "But, like, can I focus on just selling the product?"

      MLM Person: "Errrrr. I guess you could actually sell the product. I don't know...No one really does that..."
      .
      *Shudder*. I remember that. I got in a discussion with a potential "upline" about "well, why can't I just post the object I'm selling online like a normal product"? (I actually still like that particular product...)

      She flipped a lid. "No of course you can't do that! It's illegal! How dare you! If they did it like that, then we wouldn't have downlines!!!"

      *Sigh*. I was like, 19. I wish I would have just called the main company instead of taking her word for it.
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    It's totally rational. MLMs are often frauds. Plus I don't want to sell to friends.
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      1. MLM is a business model and distribution channel (nothing more).

      Michelle made an excellent point. If a company has great products and happens to use MLM as its distribution model, put your prejudice aside to decide whether or not the company's business model, products and distribution method fits your personality, lifestyle and business goals.

      Case in point: My sister just decided to get involved with Pampered Chef, which sells quality kitchenware through home parties. It's a great fit for her because she's an outgoing person with a lot of affluent friends. When she told me about it, I asked her if the company used Multi-level Marketing. She had to ask her husband what that meant. It really wasn't an issue for her because the business was so suitable for her.

      Marcia Yudkin
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  • Profile picture of the author jamesrich1
    MLM and Network marketing is the same thing. I have only found a few companies that I actually believed in their product. With affiliate marketing the ability to earn off a downline is not there. The closest thing to MLM inside of internet marketing is a product owner. 80-99% of a successful product owners sales comes from its affiliates. Having leverage underneath you is a HUGE ADVANTAGE for being able to minimize your work load. MLM gives you that ability. If you build a team who can produce results you will be able to have more potential leverage then a product owner. A lot of people frown on the methods taught inside of MLM companies which is to make a list of friends and family members, cold calls and prospecting in Walmart. I dislike those marketing methods but I do like that MLM allows you to build massive leverage underneath you. Name one other business model that allows you to earn income that spreads like a virus if your team is successful?
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by jamesrich1 View Post

      MLM and Network marketing is the same thing.
      Not quite.

      An MLM company, specifically, is a network marketing company in which the commissions paid for sales of the company's products are divided between multiple levels. That's most, but not all, of them.

      I'm no lawyer, but that's the effective legal and regulatory definition (I think in almost all parts of the world - certainly everywhere where MLM is flourishing).

      There are other network marketing companies in which the commissions are not divided between multiple levels - so the terms "network marketing" and "multi-level marketing" are not actually the same thing.

      There are direct sales companies, some of which are NM companies (but others aren't) ...
      There are NM companies, some (most) of which are MLM companies (but others aren't).

      Originally Posted by jamesrich1 View Post

      A lot of people frown on the methods taught inside of MLM companies which is to make a list of friends and family members, cold calls and prospecting in Walmart.
      The people I've known who have made high-6-figure and 7-figure incomes from network marketing haven't done that at all, and haven't even been willing to sponsor people who intend to do that because they wouldn't be willing to spend time "supporting" downline members with those 1950's-style approaches. They believe in presenting their business opportunity only to people who are already looking for a business opportunity, not in trying to "persuade" anyone.

      Their experience is that it's easy to "persuade" people and sign them up, but those people are all among the 90%-95% who drop out, and aren't still there a year later building your business for you.

      It has this in common with affiliate marketing, article marketing, and most aspects of internet marketing, actually: quality and relevance are everything, and people with a quantitative approach to it are the ones who "make up the numbers" - in more ways than one.

      My problem with MLM (and I'm an ex-MLMer myself, who isn't at all "anti" MLM) isn't really with MLM at all: it's with all the scammy things pretending to be MLM which are actually illegal pyramids. There seem to be far more of those than genuine MLM's. Eventually, a regulatory case against them builds up (usually - in the US - because they have few genuine retail customers and are really promoting mostly the opportunity to promote the opportunity - which is certainly illegal, if sometimes difficult to prove), and they tend to have a limited lifespan. But the people behind them then just start another one which also has a limited lifespan, and so on.

      Although there are some good, very long established, supremely ethical MLM's in which the emphasis is on retailing genuine products of high quality at lower-than-shop prices (people can make millions in those: many have done so and many still are), it often seems there are more things pretending to be MLM than real MLM's, at the moment. I see one or two promoted regularly by Warriors which lawyer friends assure me won't still exist in 2 years' time. Some of the "distributors" know perfectly well what's going on, and are concerned only about how much they can make before the ax inevitably drops, knowing that they're almost certainly not, themselves, going to be prosecuted or sued. Others are genuinely naive enough not to think it through, check the founders' histories and the legal/regulatory situation, and will end up telling themselves that "they were unlucky" before repeating their mistakes all over again. And again. And again. Being similarly "unlucky" on every such occasion - a real triumph of hope over experience.

      The sad reality is that it's often difficult for the public to tell the difference between a genuine MLM and an illegal pyramid sales company. The large latter group don't run around telling people "We're in pyramid sales and selling the opportunity to promote a business opportunity". They imitate legal, ethical, successful MLM's (typically glossing over the fact that they're not making many genuine retail sales to genuine retail customers who are not involved with the business opportunity at all - which regulators and courts care about very much indeed!), and as so many US court-case records and company wind-ups show, some of them do that successfully even for years, while all the time breaking the law. Unfortunately, this is simply factual.
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  • Profile picture of the author jonj31070
    MLM is a viable business model that is taught in colleges all over. Some multi millionaires got rich using MLM. The main thing that I would recommend is to research the company thoroughly. There are many good companies out there that are honest and have a good program, and there are some bad ones. Just like all types of business models, you will need to educate yourself and work hard to make it work.
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  • Profile picture of the author techbul
    MLM has been associated with scams for a long time in IM, but it is nevertheless a legit business model. If you want to start one you should research it a bit, then check out those that went well, and try to out-perform those.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEO Haven
    What people need to realize is that all these MLM sites aren't there to make you rich, you're there to make THEM rich.

    My opinion? MLM is a huge waste of valuable time.
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  • Profile picture of the author ProAffiliate01
    I just (as others have alluded to) dislike MLMs that make huge promises and generate no real monetary returns. I want to separate the good from the bad.
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  • Profile picture of the author neilh1uk
    Great thread.......I don't think it's irrational not to like MLM/NM.....I've been involved with them in the past and one at the moment that I am thinking of getting out of......one of the reasons is that from time to time they introduce a new product at an even higher price tag which you would need to buy to qualify for commissions at that level.....and so it goes on......yes you can make money from it, but it is a large distribution network for the owners first and foremost who can print money with every additional product line.....

    I think the other factor comes down to personality. Some people are no doubt born to succeed in MLM/ NM. If however, you just don't fit into the whole team building thing.....because maybe you are an ostensibly private person....don't beat yourself up for it.....there are plenty of other income streams in other areas that you could focus on.
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  • Profile picture of the author bigballin6161
    Why build up someone elses business that you have no control over. 99% of the people associated with MLM are annoying as hell.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mpresev
      My ex coworker was one of my best friends at work. He tried to get me in ACN. I didn't join because I didn't like MLM but went to the meeting anyway to support my friend. He doesn't talk to me anymore.

      Oh they pressured me and pressured some more. It was scary. I didn't have a good experience.

      You know what they say about "when ppl chase you, ppl run away" I felt like that.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
        Originally Posted by Mpresev View Post

        My ex coworker was one of my best friends at work. He tried to get me in ACN. I didn't join because I didn't like MLM but went to the meeting anyway to support my friend. He doesn't talk to me anymore.

        Oh they pressured me and pressured some more. It was scary. I didn't have a good experience.

        You know what they say about "when ppl chase you, ppl run away" I felt like that.
        That is a shame you got pulled into a bad MLM experience and lost a friend over it. When someone takes the approach of pressuring someone to join it almost always ends in either disaster or the person being pressured not making any money.

        I just can't understand that "old fashion sales" approach some still use. You make a lot more money and don't lose friends by simply "sharing and sifting". The people interested will speak up and you don't piss off the people that have no interest at that time.

        And to top it off! The people that do join your team the proper way actually make money!

        There is no place for high pressure sales tactics in todays MLM. Yes some, can we say, uneducated idiots sadly still think that is the only way to build a team. They almost always end up with a team of thousands and don't understand why they are not making big money.

        Then you have the teams that do it right and make big money with smaller teams that actually want to be in the business.

        Re's
        Rob Whisonant
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  • Profile picture of the author 32paul52
    Lots of opinions on MLM here.

    I have been involved a few years back, and I have tended to take from it what I thought was the good points:

    1. The training - Pick one with a great training system that's others can follow as everyone who gets involved is at a different level.

    2. Understand not everyone wants the same thing, and the important thing that not everyone will do anything.

    3. Relationships- its all about it

    4. Churn - lots drop out -its fact of life.

    5. Some people become "over zealous" -carried away thinking that everyone should join

    I think you have to find something that you love doing and would do without being paid.

    If you want to improve your sales skills its definitely worth looking at....
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    • Profile picture of the author Joshster
      Thank guys,

      You just hit the nail on the head for me. Someone I know just asked me to do something for them (it's a certain type of personality that bothers me a little...I need to let that feeling go); and I was immediately reminded of these comments:

      Originally Posted by 32paul52 View Post

      Lots of opinions on MLM here.
      5. Some people become "over zealous" -carried away thinking that everyone should join
      And

      Originally Posted by neilh1uk View Post

      I think the other factor comes down to personality. Some people are no doubt born to succeed in MLM/ NM. If however, you just don't fit into the whole team building thing.....because maybe you are an ostensibly private person....don't beat yourself up for it.....there are plenty of other income streams in other areas that you could focus on.
      Yes Yes! Thank you.

      ************

      Originally Posted by kaizense View Post

      ...
      That said, it's gonna be a lot healthier for you to focus on what you wanna do rather than what you don't want to do or averse to. Just let it slight and be neutral about it. It's perfectly fine though to say nah selling pipe dreams without anything to back it up just ain't my style
      Concentrate on what you want rather than focus any energy on negative things:
      OH YES Thank you for that one!

      Thank you all folks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ten
    I don't think that you are crazy. Perhaps if the MLM was about something you are passionate about, then you might even like it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tayman
    Mlm is a god way to build a residual income. If you don't agree with the business model, I would avoid it.
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  • Profile picture of the author tagalog
    My wife and I were into MLM with a company called Telco Communications (now no longer trading). They had a clause in their contract that allowed them to change the earning conditions to whatever they wanted to. Virtually nobody was aware of the clause, indeed it was so well hidden it was almost invisible.

    Anyway, through working VERY hard, getting out of bed at 5 am in freezing cold weather and standing in snow and ice for hours selling to the public, we eventually got our residual income up to £500 (USD800.00) every month and then having very little work to be done.

    You've guessed it, Telco pulled the plug and changed their conditions and the £500 became about £20 within weeks. There were others involved who lost as much as £2000 per month. AND, there was absolutely NOTHING anyone could do about it.

    The bottom line was that all but a few of us packed it all in feeling embittered and angry.

    Happily, Telco lost so many of their top marketers, they had to change their name and eventually went out of business.

    For what it is worth, it was an American business and we were honestly passionate about what we were selling as it was a great product. BUT, never again!

    Since then we have had many other MLM agents approach us but neither my wife or I will ever touch another MLM product.

    So you take your chance with every so-called oportunity.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
      Originally Posted by tagalog View Post

      My wife and I were into MLM with a company called Telco Communications (now no longer trading). They had a clause in their contract that allowed them to change the earning conditions to whatever they wanted to. Virtually nobody was aware of the clause, indeed it was so well hidden it was almost invisible.

      Anyway, through working VERY hard, getting out of bed at 5 am in freezing cold weather and standing in snow and ice for hours selling to the public, we eventually got our residual income up to £500 (USD800.00) every month and then having very little work to be done.

      You've guessed it, Telco pulled the plug and changed their conditions and the £500 became about £20 within weeks. There were others involved who lost as much as £2000 per month. AND, there was absolutely NOTHING anyone could do about it.

      The bottom line was that all but a few of us packed it all in feeling embittered and angry.

      Happily, Telco lost so many of their top marketers, they had to change their name and eventually went out of business.

      For what it is worth, it was an American business and we were honestly passionate about what we were selling as it was a great product. BUT, never again!

      Since then we have had many other MLM agents approach us but neither my wife or I will ever touch another MLM product.

      So you take your chance with every so-called oportunity.
      The MLM business model is not the problem. This can even happen with affiliate programs. They can start out paying 30% commission and then suddenly change it to 5% commission if they want. So don't blame the MLM model for this. Blame business relationships in general.

      Re's
      Rob Whisonant
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant View Post

        The MLM business model is not the problem. This can even happen with affiliate programs.
        It can, Rob, but the reality is that most affiliates promote a far wider range of products from different vendors/companies/manufacturers than do most MLM distributors, who are therefore, to all intents and purposes, far more dependent on the survival, longevity, whims and payment-method-changes of the companies with which they're associated.

        Indeed, part of the joy of being an affiliate marketer is the enormous flexibility we have, in that regard.

        If the vendor of one of my "main products" suddenly cuts the commission from 75% to 25%, I can quickly and easily drop his product like a stone and replace it with something better paid, without it even impacting my business much while I'm actually doing that. Not typically true of "MLM accidents" at all!

        I'm generally in the "pro-MLM camp" here, in such discussions, but I thought Tagalog made an entirely good and valid point in his post, and made it well.

        Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant View Post

        They can start out paying 30% commission and then suddenly change it to 5% commission if they want. So don't blame the MLM model for this.
        To all practical intents and purposes, that is a problem of the MLM model, given the reality that people in MLM don't promote a product or two from each of 15/20/30 different vendors like so many successful affiliate marketers do. It does make one much more risky than the other. Simply because the nature of the model predicates that MLM distributors are more at risk of adverse consequences from being at the mercy of the company than affiliates tend to be in affiliate marketing.

        Though I'm pro-MLM in principle, I admit that the exact point Tagalog made illustrates one reason why I'm happier and more comfortable, myself, with affiliate marketing than I was in MLM. One dramatic commission-change/payment-change from a vendor can have only a very minimal and temporary effect on me.

        I don't think anyone can seriously dispute this reality, can they?
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        • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          I don't think anyone can seriously dispute this reality, can they?
          You bring up some valid points. I guess I should have added...

          As long as you stick with an MLM company that values their name and brand. AKA = Stay away from small single product MLM companies. The small ones can easily close up shop and rise as a new company. The big ones that have tons of money invested in their name and brand have to much to lose by screwing over distributors.

          I guess that would MOSTLY hold true for all companies including ones that have affiliate programs. I have seen a few big companies screw their affiliates over many times.

          Re's
          Rob Whisonant
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      • Profile picture of the author tagalog
        Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant View Post

        The MLM business model is not the problem. This can even happen with affiliate programs. They can start out paying 30% commission and then suddenly change it to 5% commission if they want. So don't blame the MLM model for this. Blame business relationships in general.

        Re's
        Rob Whisonant
        I agree totally. But the point of my post was to make it clear that MLM can be a heart-breaker. I did not mention that sometime later I joined SkyBiz and that went into liquidation leaving people like myself with egg on their faces and a lot of wasted hard work and lost income.

        So, MLM is not all it is cracked up to be. As you say. An MLM company can change the commission rates whenever they like, so my advice is to stear clear of MLM unless you feel 1000% sure it will last for many years to come.
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        • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
          Originally Posted by tagalog View Post

          I agree totally. But the point of my post was to make it clear that MLM can be a heart-breaker. I did not mention that sometime later I joined SkyBiz and that went into liquidation leaving people like myself with egg on their faces and a lot of wasted hard work and lost income.

          So, MLM is not all it is cracked up to be. As you say. An MLM company can change the commission rates whenever they like, so my advice is to stear clear of MLM unless you feel 1000% sure it will last for many years to come.
          SkyBiz was not an MLM... it was an illegal pyramid scheme
          and many of us sounded the alarm on that one from the beginning.
          Many didn't listen and lost money and hard work.

          SkyBiz also did not go into liquidation... it was shut down by regulatory authorities.
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  • Profile picture of the author joshugrady
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Smith
      The concept of MLM is a wonderful thing. The reality is what we make of it. In theory, if each of us could find five friends who would purchase quality products or services every month and duplicate through a few levels, we could all make very nice residual incomes and enjoy financial and time freedom.

      The reality is that humans don't tend to stick with things and tend to lack the necessary persistence and character to be successful at any business. That is why most of the world are not now and never will be successful business owners.

      The concept of MLM is excellent. The execution is a whole different can of worms.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Personally, it's not my cup of tea. But I've written copy for
    the market and made some people very rich as a result of
    using internet marketing strategies to grow their business.

    So I've found some of my highest paying client in that
    market. I tried MLM for many years and the people
    (downline) management side of things didn't
    fit my style of business so I laid it aside for internet
    marketing. But I still have great respect for the
    business model.

    -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author prasanth5
    The main complaint against MLM opportunity is that it allows an individual to earn on the hard work done by his downline, sometimes 5 levels deep!
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    Here's my own opinion about MLM.

    It is the best business model out there ever. If you take a look at regular affiliate programs online, there are many people who are on this path right now. They go to an affiliate network, pick one or two products that they really like, and then promote them like crazy thinking that this is the best way to go.

    What's wrong with that? First of all, they will not earn residual income. They usually get paid once and then thinking that they are succeeding. WRONG. They are not. They are just throwing money on ads down the drain. They are wasting their time and energy.

    Second, they will never earn money from the efforts of others.

    People think that affiliate programs is the way to go but they are wrong. I can speak on this with authority because I was one of them for like 4 years. I sold over 3000+ one time commission products. That was my biggest mistake online but I learned many things along the way up until now.

    MLM is the way to go because you get duplication and you earn residual income.

    Another thing that everyone here needs to realize is that MLM is all about NUMBERS. People still don't get it.

    They want everyone that they recruit to do well. They want everyone on their team to duplicate. They want everyone on their team to take action.

    What I learned is that 5%-10% of the people ( or maybe lower) your bring in will take action and hopefully become leaders themselves.

    The fact is that many will quit.
    Some will stay with the membership.
    Many will not do anything.
    Very few will take action and do well.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    I was once paid to write a humorous article about MLM.

    I managed to write a quite comic article because MLM is a mess, and it makes you transform all you relationships into prospects.

    I personally would never get involved in something like that. I accepted to write this article because I really believe that MLM is a joke.



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  • Profile picture of the author Steve L
    This may have already been mentioned, but my main beef with MLM is that 99.9% of the companies out there are pushing crummy products and the only reason people buy them is to be apart of the "business".

    They always want you to push the opportunity first, but if it was such a solid business with a solid product, you should be able to resell the product and make a living wage simply from that. This is usually not the case. Usually, the only way you can make any real money is by building your "downline", which of course makes it a pyramid scheme in essence.
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  • Profile picture of the author FoieGras
    Banned
    Originally Posted by joshi View Post

    Hey guys,

    I have been involved in online marketing for around 6 months.
    And I have an instant aversion to anything MLM related...NM isn't far behind and I avoid it unless it's totally irresistible...

    Do you guys think I'm crazy, should I just do whatever to make money?

    Edit: I should add that I am into "Law of Attraction" type stuff and definitely want to pay forward and help and inspire others to achieve success on my way to personal success. I also have significant personal goals too
    You have the right to hate an industry who fails 97-99% of the people joining it. I was one of them. Even the products, especially the nutritional supplements, while some are terrific for one's health, cost way too much.*coughUSANAcough*
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  • Profile picture of the author aizaku
    I dont subscribe to it because it does SEEM like a pyramid scheme.

    Why bother with that shady arrangement when you could focus on a niche online and draw in traffic that converts into sales. With your online business You can be the end all and be all - with YOUR site, YOUR videos and YOUR product.

    however I did find this interesting news report that seems to highlight MLM in a positive light, you be the judge:

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    • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
      Originally Posted by aizaku View Post

      I dont subscribe to it because it does SEEM like a pyramid scheme.
      All business is a pyramid. You have the boss, then the managers, then the workers. That's a pyramid.

      Even a single person business is a pyramid. You have the proprietor, support services, outsourcing, affiliates. Same pyramid structure.

      I'm not sure of any business that would not fall under the pyramid structure. You have to have a pyramid structure for a business to work. Just try having a lateral or other structure and you lose total control of your business.

      Yes I know I am stretching it a bit. Just trying to show a different view point. Pyramid structured business is good business.

      Re's
      Rob Whisonant
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve L
        Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant View Post

        All business is a pyramid. You have the boss, then the managers, then the workers. That's a pyramid.

        Even a single person business is a pyramid. You have the proprietor, support services, outsourcing, affiliates. Same pyramid structure.

        I'm not sure of any business that would not fall under the pyramid structure. You have to have a pyramid structure for a business to work. Just try having a lateral or other structure and you lose total control of your business.

        Yes I know I am stretching it a bit. Just trying to show a different view point. Pyramid structured business is good business.

        Re's
        Rob Whisonant
        When I say pyramid scheme, I'm referring to the fact that really the only way to make any real money in MLM is to bring more suckers underneath you. Which, when drawn on a whiteboard, resembles a pyramid.

        A real business can be sustained from selling a product or service, without the need to build some sort of "downline".

        Even if a business is sustained from affiliates, at least the affiliates are making money from selling the product directly, and not by building a downline.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Steve Longoria View Post

          When I say pyramid scheme, I'm referring to the fact that really the only way to make any real money in MLM is to bring more suckers underneath you. Which, when drawn on a whiteboard, resembles a pyramid.
          That's a huge part of the ever-repeated problem in conversations like this, Steve: you're using the words "pyramid scheme" with a totally different meaning from how every court, legal document, regulation, regulatory body, lawyer and consumer rights group in the world uses it.

          That just isn't what the words "pyramid scheme" mean.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
          Originally Posted by Steve Longoria View Post

          When I say pyramid scheme, I'm referring to the fact that really the only way to make any real money in MLM is to bring more suckers underneath you. Which, when drawn on a whiteboard, resembles a pyramid.
          Hmmmm... So in your eyes "affiliates" would be suckers? Let's say you have a business and sell a product. But to make really good money you have to recruit people under you to do the selling. You just described affiliate marketing.

          So in your eyes.... What business operates without what you call suckers? Seriously think about it.

          All business models are shaped in a pyramid style if you like it or not.

          Re's
          Rob Whisonant
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          • Profile picture of the author AdwordsMogul
            Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant View Post

            Hmmmm... So in your eyes "affiliates" would be suckers? Let's say you have a business and sell a product. But to make really good money you have to recruit people under you to do the selling. You just described affiliate marketing.

            So in your eyes.... What business operates without what you call suckers? Seriously think about it.

            All business models are shaped in a pyramid style if you like it or not.
            ...
            There is a difference. An affiliate doesn't have to recruit another affiliate to make money.

            Now, due to the emotional nature of the topic, I will stick with just a couple of simple reasons why the particular companies with "solid" reputations are not right for a REAL business person.

            I'm referring to Amway and Herbalife

            1. You can't advertise the products - so if I have $2000 and want to do an ad in a paper I can't.

            Regardless of the reasons given, this seriously cripples you as a "business owner"

            2. You can't mark up your prices. So your profit is dependent on what those above you tell you.

            3. You cannot change the name of the product or the packaging. Again, that's not allowing you to market the way you see fit.

            Plus, of course, you cannot put your own brand on the products.

            So?

            Only people who actually make a living running a business can full grasp the impact of the points above - and I'm just scratching the surface of the surface here.

            Reality?

            As Perry Marshall put it "There is business newbies get into and there is real business."

            But...

            Most MLM "fans" will follow one of the following paths, regardless of what we say here:

            1. They will just go on till they give up/wake up
            2. They will wake up and cross to the other side and start selling the dream
            3. They will start making money, working harder than everyone else because the moment they stop, the money stops,(hoping one they it will get easier. It won't.)

            Hehe!

            Let the emotional, angry responses begin.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steve L
              Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul View Post

              There is a difference. An affiliate doesn't have to recruit another affiliate to make money.

              Thank you! I will now politely excuse myself from this thread before the trolls enter.
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              • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                I'v known people to make real money with MLM. I've been in a couple of MLM companies, and made good money. And I've been very happy with the products I've used that are marketed through MLM channels.

                The only reason MLM is not for me, is that I have learned that I very much prefer dealing with business owners, and not consumers.

                And the vast majority of people in MLM are not business people. Mostly, because the majority of people everywhere are not business people. And training non-business people is not one of my strengths.

                So there!
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                • Profile picture of the author robestrong
                  I'd like to weigh in on this a little bit. I've gone back and forth with whether or not it's moot (i.e. whether or not the rest of the world is essentially just MLM in business and IM), but I've finally decided that it's not.

                  I'm very much not a fan of the near cult-like affinity that it's members show. That's probably one of my greatest dislikes of it, and the concept that you can succeed where most will fail (statistically), seems almost like reverse fatalism, and I've always found rather irrational.

                  I don't particularly dislike people who do MLM, only the fact that they claim that what they do is a legitimate business, rather than just a part of a larger system to make the people at the top richer (which, coincidentally, they often dislike in the rest of the world).

                  It's hard to tell whether it's just a harmless microcosm of society as a whole, or a more rigid, more oppressive structure.

                  Finally I wanted to say that I've never had anything particularly against people's ability to be able to do it -- heck I think that pyramid schemes should be legal as long as people know what they are getting into.
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                • Profile picture of the author curly sue
                  When I started using the internet, i used to hate sales pages, look where i am now; creating them. So you will be surprised that someone out there is making legitimate money from MLM products, you just need to change your view about something to make it work for you too.
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                • Profile picture of the author TerranceCharles
                  MLM is a viable concept and have made millionaires. I personally used to be involved with MLM and built a nice size paying downline. However, most of the tactics that other MLMer's use have given the model a bad rep. It's a big pet peeve as soon as someone even start pitching me on it, no matter how long they've built a relationship with me.

                  It kind of seems like the blind leading the blind, people telling you how to make a residual $10k a month and they're not even making a dime themselves. More like selling the dream of making money, rather than selling what the actual product itself does. But the biggest problem I see with MLM is the training. 5 bring 5 that bring 5 - that doesn't work.

                  You can succeed with MLM if you can do one thing, train your team how to duplicate their team. I've seen it all too many times, people get in and after they're sold and payed their hard earned money, don't have a clue on how to recruit and teach their team to recruit, so they quit once they've realized that all the hype has worn off.
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                  • Profile picture of the author davidbatchelor
                    Originally Posted by TerranceCharles View Post

                    MLM is a viable concept and have made millionaires. I personally used to be involved with MLM and built a nice size paying downline. However, most of the tactics that other MLMer's use have given the model a bad rep. It's a big pet peeve as soon as someone even start pitching me on it, no matter how long they've built a relationship with me.

                    It kind of seems like the blind leading the blind, people telling you how to make a residual $10k a month and they're not even making a dime themselves. More like selling the dream of making money, rather than selling what the actual product itself does. But the biggest problem I see with MLM is the training. 5 bring 5 that bring 5 - that doesn't work.

                    You can succeed with MLM if you can do one thing, train your team how to duplicate their team. I've seen it all too many times, people get in and after they're sold and payed their hard earned money, don't have a clue on how to recruit and teach their team to recruit, so they quit once they've realized that all the hype has worn off.
                    Great points there.

                    What if one could out source the whole process though?
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                • Profile picture of the author tsunamistarter
                  I don't care much for MLMs, but I do like network marketing - the concept of one-to-one and one-to-a-thousand (with social networks) marketing makes sense and works.
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            • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
              Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul View Post

              There is a difference. An affiliate doesn't have to recruit another affiliate to make money.

              Now, due to the emotional nature of the topic, I will stick with just a couple of simple reasons why the particular companies with "solid" reputations are not right for a REAL business person.

              I'm referring to Amway and Herbalife

              1. You can't advertise the products - so if I have $2000 and want to do an ad in a paper I can't.

              Regardless of the reasons given, this seriously cripples you as a "business owner"

              2. You can't mark up your prices. So your profit is dependent on what those above you tell you.

              3. You cannot change the name of the product or the packaging. Again, that's not allowing you to market the way you see fit.

              Plus, of course, you cannot put your own brand on the products.

              So?

              Only people who actually make a living running a business can full grasp the impact of the points above - and I'm just scratching the surface of the surface here.

              Reality?

              As Perry Marshall put it "There is business newbies get into and there is real business."

              But...

              Most MLM "fans" will follow one of the following paths, regardless of what we say here:

              1. They will just go on till they give up/wake up
              2. They will wake up and cross to the other side and start selling the dream
              3. They will start making money, working harder than everyone else because the moment they stop, the money stops,(hoping one they it will get easier. It won't.)

              Hehe!

              Let the emotional, angry responses begin.
              Big difference between MLM fans who chase a dream and MLM business people that run a business. One does not equal the other. They use completely different marketing methods. The MLM fan usually pissed off his friends and family while the business person does not.

              One thing you missed and most people miss is that MLM is a "distribution channel" it's not the actual business or marketing channel. You make your business what you want. You can use or not use the "distribution channel" of MLM in your business.

              The best way to make money in my opinion is to work MLM for the "long term" benefit and work some other type of business model like affiliate marketing, product creation etc for the "short term" gains.

              Re's
              Rob Whisonant
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            • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
              Originally Posted by AdwordsMogul View Post

              There is a difference. An affiliate doesn't have to recruit another affiliate to make money.

              Now, due to the emotional nature of the topic, I will stick with just a couple of simple reasons why the particular companies with "solid" reputations are not right for a REAL business person.

              I'm referring to Amway and Herbalife

              1. You can't advertise the products - so if I have $2000 and want to do an ad in a paper I can't.

              Regardless of the reasons given, this seriously cripples you as a "business owner"

              2. You can't mark up your prices. So your profit is dependent on what those above you tell you.

              3. You cannot change the name of the product or the packaging. Again, that's not allowing you to market the way you see fit.

              Plus, of course, you cannot put your own brand on the products.

              So?

              Only people who actually make a living running a business can full grasp the impact of the points above - and I'm just scratching the surface of the surface here.

              Reality?

              As Perry Marshall put it "There is business newbies get into and there is real business."

              But...

              Most MLM "fans" will follow one of the following paths, regardless of what we say here:

              1. They will just go on till they give up/wake up
              2. They will wake up and cross to the other side and start selling the dream
              3. They will start making money, working harder than everyone else because the moment they stop, the money stops,(hoping one they it will get easier. It won't.)

              Hehe!

              Let the emotional, angry responses begin.

              Nothing angry or emotional here... I knew you'd eventually show up
              and demonstrate your complete lack of understanding of a business model
              you write about as if you know something about it!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    Someone once said that MLM is the "sewer" of Internet marketing.

    But, I personally have lots of friends who have made small fortunes.

    I think pitching anything to your close friends and family is "cheap", which many mlm guys do unfortunately. (But whatever, nothing against those that do, it's just not for me).

    I've made good money with it, but understand those with opposing viewpoints.

    (I also make money with affiliate marketing, my own products, list building).

    So you can see I'm a man of all trades and not a "mlm goon".

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    • Profile picture of the author Paleochora
      Originally Posted by Sarevok View Post

      Someone once said that MLM is the "sewer" of Internet marketing.
      Its a shame that some fool said that. Not just because MLM far pre-dates 'Internet marketing' whatever the definition of that might be, but because the internet makes the whole process of teambuilding and training so much easier.

      Back in the late 80s and early 90s when I was active in this sector we gave out and posted video and audio cassettes, spent hours driving up & down the country running trainings and events. I was not uncommon to be in a hotel meeting room 5 nights/days of the week. With e-mail, skype, webinars, online video as communication methods I am sure it is far easier to build, train and maintain a team now than ever before.
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  • Profile picture of the author Yogini
    I agree with a lot of the points above. I have gotten text messages at 11 pm and been called multiple times by friends who became involved in mlms and I believe that they are trained to be persistent. I felt the amount of contacts was over the top and I wasn't heard. For instance, one person was promoting a supplement that had the content of many vegetables and kept talking about how there were research studies by respected doctors etc. All MLMS have doctors involved for "credibility". When I did look for reviews, there was a lot about how high the sugar content was in the supplements and other negatives.

    It also seems that when 5 levels of distributors get cuts that the products are being marked up quite high. Many also require a certain amount of credits in order to be able to buy the products at an affordable level to resell. Sometimes you have to buy the doctors own products to get the best wholesale pricing.

    Also, the distributor pages are identical so they do not do well in search engines.

    Debbie
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  • Profile picture of the author hardnova
    wiki, wiki, wiki, wiki, troll bait.

    MLM businesses operate in all 50 states. New businesses may use terms such as "affiliate marketing" or "home-based business franchising". Many pyramid schemes try to present themselves as legitimate MLM businesses.[11] However, there are people who hold that all MLMs are essentially pyramid schemes even if legal.[10][31][32][33]
    The United States Federal Trade Commission states "Steer clear of multilevel marketing plans that pay commissions for recruiting new distributors. They're actually illegal pyramid schemes. Why is pyramiding dangerous? Because plans that pay commissions for recruiting new distributors inevitably collapse when no new distributors can be recruited. And when a plan collapses, most people - except perhaps those at the very top of the pyramid - end up empty-handed."[34]
    In a 2004 Staff Advisory letter to the Direct Selling Association, the FTC states:
    Much has been made of the personal, or internal, consumption issue in recent years. In fact, the amount of internal consumption in any multi-level compensation business does not determine whether or not the FTC will consider the plan a pyramid scheme. The critical question for the FTC is whether the revenues that primarily support the commissions paid to all participants are generated from purchases of goods and services that are not simply incidental to the purchase of the right to participate in a money-making venture.[35]
    The FTC warns "Not all multilevel marketing plans are legitimate. Some are pyramid schemes. It's best not to get involved in plans where the money you make is based primarily on the number of distributors you recruit and your sales to them, rather than on your sales to people outside the plan who intend to use the products."[36] and states that research is your best tool, giving eight steps to follow:[36]
    1. Find — and study — the company’s track record
    2. Learn about the product
    3. Ask questions
    4. Understand any restrictions
    5. Talk to other distributors (beware of shills)
    6. Consider using a friend or adviser as a neutral sounding board or for a gut check
    7. Take your time
    8. Think about whether this plan suits your talents and goals
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  • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
    Legit MLM:

    You push a product as an affiliate and get paid 20% commission. Along the way you occasionally recruit some people to also be affiliates and you get 5% of their earnings.


    Scam MLM:

    You pay $50 to join the program (a fee to join or you may get something in return). You then recruit other people to join the program for the same $50 and you get a 20% commission. You also get 5% of their earnings. It's important to note that the only thing being sold under the scam MLM is the $50 join fee that you paid and you are now trying to get others to pay.


    The problem with my scam MLM example is that the average affiliate will not recruit enough people to cover their $50 investment. And even if they do, it is indeed a type of pyramid scheme that people go to prison for if the pyramid gets too big.


    Never under any circumstances should you pay a fee in connection with joining an affiliate/MLM program (not for hosting, ad materials, training or anything else). 100% of programs with this requirement are a scam. There are no exceptions.
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    can you guys please stop typing all this mumbo jumbo and join my empowerment group...... HA HA HA LOL. LMAO!
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  • Profile picture of the author MLMBrander
    Originally Posted by Joshster View Post

    Hey guys,

    I have been involved in online marketing for around 6 months.
    And I have an instant aversion to anything MLM related...NM isn't far behind and I avoid it unless it's totally irresistible...

    Do you guys think I'm crazy, should I just do whatever to make money?

    Edit: I should add that I am into "Law of Attraction" type stuff and definitely want to pay forward and help and inspire others to achieve success on my way to personal success. I also have significant personal goals too
    Hey Josh -cool question.

    You shouldn't feel bad if you have such "aversions" for MLM -though I'd like to contest that MLM is not = just do whatever to make money. People's opinion might be subjective rather than objective depending on their experience w/ MLM. Knowing 96% or more of MLMs are scamish there are still legitimate businesses out there w/ the same business model.

    If you are the "inspire others kinda guy" go for the best and legal way to make money -Affiliate Marketing and just stay away from MLM.

    HINT**: Successful MLMs --> Product Driven
    Unsuccessful MLMs --> Make More Money Driven

    Cheers!
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    • Profile picture of the author Joshster
      Originally Posted by MLMBrander View Post

      Hey Josh -cool question.

      You shouldn't feel bad if you have such "aversions" for MLM -though I'd like to contest that MLM is not = just do whatever to make money. People's opinion might be subjective rather than objective depending on their experience w/ MLM. Knowing 96% or more of MLMs are scamish there are still legitimate businesses out there w/ the same business model.

      If you are the "inspire others kinda guy" go for the best and legal way to make money -Affiliate Marketing and just stay away from MLM.

      HINT**: Successful MLMs --> Product Driven
      Unsuccessful MLMs --> Make More Money Driven

      Cheers!
      Hey Thanks

      I have a friend who is in a new phone/credit card type network marketing deal. Solid product. Seems fully legit and backed by super well known business people (billionaires are involved in it).

      My friend is the office admin to the 'affiliate' program director. And the thing that drives be batty is all the RaRa and daily phone calls/webinars. It's all so hypey, I just had to back off...

      IMO, the NM/MLM space is designed for the type of personality that relishes the whole team building thing. Perhaps it's a good alternative and fit for people coming out of the traditional structured corporate world?
      -- (I never did fit in too well...!)

      - For my taste these things only really work if you are one of the program originators - And then you hire someone to run the actual program!
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  • Profile picture of the author Missouri31
    I've always wondered with MLMs....the people that get involved, why?

    Why sell someone else's line of makeup, or cleaning product, or whatever it is?

    If you are so passionate about that particular industry, create your own product and sell it yourself or create your own MLM for it.

    No, it's not nearly as easy, but the potential rewards are much greater.
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  • Profile picture of the author betterwtveter
    I am part of one because I am hooked to the product and trainings. But You need to do a ton of research to make sure it is legit and that the pay plan agrees with you. I use a a 5 of 5 plan. I find five legitimate reviews about the company and I personally talk to five people in the company to see how their success has been and make sure they are being honest.
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  • Profile picture of the author embrown
    It really just depends on the company. I 50% of the money I make comes from NM (I like the term social selling, now ) . I only deal with companies that offer products/services that I use and can offer value to others. A lot of companies/people have given the whole industry a bad name because there are a lot of companies that have a "product" as an excuse to have pay scheme. I can't get behind those.

    Honestly, if the product can stand on its on, sell in stores and such then its valid and I can get behind it. But, you have to do your research.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by embrown View Post

      50% of the money I make comes from NM (I like the term social selling, now ) .
      Just a suggestion, Embrown, but living in the US, you might want to be very careful how and in front of whom you use that term to describe your business. Regulators and courts are strict about this whole business of using other terms to describe multi-level marketing. If the company of which you're a distributor is registered and regulated as a multi-level marketing company, then I believe "MLM" is the term you have to use, to describe the business opportunity to potentially interested parties?

      There are companies like "Melaleuca" whose distributors sometimes skirt around regulatory/legal accidents by describing it as "consumer direct marketing" (or some expression like that) in an attempt specifically to avoid using the expression "MLM", but the company's own compliance department doesn't recommend that, and it's taking a real chance. I've even seen them saying openly that "it isn't MLM", which is clearly not right (I think those are probably just very naive newbies, before they learn better!).

      "Just saying".
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  • Profile picture of the author evilsaigon
    I join for the fun of it. I usually prefer those with spillovers, and then you just choose to join under a very active referrer (one that advertises the MLM site a lot, you can join from those advertisements as a matter of fact) and just watch the spillovers lol.

    Of course, it's definitely NOT a long-term solution but if you just want to experiment with some risk, you can just try out one with spillovers.

    I can understand many shun at the idea of MLM, and it's not irrational, but I think it beats something riskier like gambling online where it's insanely difficult to withdraw your winnings. You can try out MLM just for the fun of it I can say.
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  • Profile picture of the author mialove
    My association with MLM - scam.

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  • Profile picture of the author sicocos
    I think the same MLM , money game .......
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  • Profile picture of the author betterwtveter
    There are two reasons why people call MLM a scam.
    The first reason is that people expect to join an mlm and get rich quick without knowing anything about marketing. You must know how to market the business or you will fail. Once a person fails, they wish to blame the company as a scam instead of blaming themselves.
    The Second legitimate reason why people call mlm a scam is if the company has a false product. If The product or service is made for nothing to do nothing, but to mainly take your money, than run for the hills. You need to make sure the company has a legitimate product base in order to call it legitimate business in stead of a scam.
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  • Profile picture of the author srodoks
    MLM is a good way to build a residual income. if u dont agree with the business model, i would avoid it
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  • Profile picture of the author magiceyes
    ..as with everything else you have to have the "right" mentality for MLM.
    Yes, there's some 1 or 2% making millions out of this business (I believe mostly scam).

    Who in their right state of mind would have the heart to even think of deceiving family, friends or older people with some shabby MLM products?

    Based on my own experience I often find the same kind of products for a much lower price (50-80% off).

    You end up selling something you have no control over.
    People are not stupid. Eventually they will figure out who you are and what you're doing.

    If anyone wants to loose his/her dignity and self respect, go ahead.
    Start selling MLM face-to-face and you'll see the results in no time.
    Go online if you need more time to get accustomed to your new "face".

    Yes, there's a whole lot of money to be made, but based on what?
    Even if you make some money I don't think you'll feel great about it (well, depends of what kind of person you are)..

    Meg
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by magiceyes View Post

      ..as with everything else you have to have the "right" mentality for MLM.
      Yes, there's some 1 or 2% making millions out of this business (I believe mostly scam).

      Who in their right state of mind would have the heart to even think of deceiving family, friends or older people with some shabby MLM products?

      Based on my own experience I often find the same kind of products for a much lower price (50-80% off).

      You end up selling something you have no control over.
      People are not stupid. Eventually they will figure out who you are and what you're doing.

      If anyone wants to loose his/her dignity and self respect, go ahead.
      Start selling MLM face-to-face and you'll see the results in no time.
      Go online if you need more time to get accustomed to your new "face".

      Yes, there's a whole lot of money to be made, but based on what?
      Even if you make some money I don't think you'll feel great about it (well, depends of what kind of person you are)..

      Meg
      Well, Meg... I've been doing it since the early 70s and I feel
      just great about it! Of course, I've never done what you described
      and have met relatively few people who have. I think maybe you
      don't really know that much about it...
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  • Profile picture of the author Bluesman Of MLM
    I cant complain.. I make a lot of money in the network marketing industry. But not the traditional way. Chasing family, friends, and complete strangers just didnt work for me and doesn't work for 97% of all network marketers. People fail for 2 reasons.

    1. Mindset is poor
    2. No one to talk to. (no quality prospects)

    The real problem is leads. Once I figured out to generate my own leads and build a list, then my life changed. Attraction Marketing is the only way to go. I wouldnt say its a waste of time like others are saying. I know alot of people that are in the IM world and boy do they waste their time.

    If you dont feel attracted to the business model thats fine. Its not for everyone. To each their own.

    Its really not about the products but more the dream and the why. Just like in IM you identify someones problem and offer a solution. The internet marketing world is no different when it comes to marketing
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  • Profile picture of the author TheSalesBooster
    This should answer any questions you have about MLM



    if that still doesn't satisfy you, just take a look at the income disclosure statements MLM companies are forced to put out. You will see that 99%+ of people never make enough money to live off of. The only people who make money with MLM are the people on top.
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    • Profile picture of the author danfac2012
      I participated in MLM previously selling beauty & health products. Unfortunately I didn't made it but all my up lines who started around the same time as me made it really big. I still believe that you can make a lot of money from MLM if you are persist.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bluesman Of MLM
      Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster View Post

      This should answer any questions you have about MLM

      Penn and Teller Bullshit S08E05 Easy Money Part (1/2) - YouTube


      if that still doesn't satisfy you, just take a look at the income disclosure statements MLM companies are forced to put out. You will see that 99%+ of people never make enough money to live off of. The only people who make money with MLM are the people on top.
      Great source you have there. You may want to educate yourself first before saying the only ones on the top make money. Sounds very ignorant
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      • Profile picture of the author TTGSteve
        I just recently started with a new MLM company and within probably 3 days I made enough to pay for my membership and also make profit. So, it's working for me. *shrugs*
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster View Post

      just take a look at the income disclosure statements MLM companies are forced to put out. You will see that 99%+ of people never make enough money to live off of.
      Most of them, of course, aren't expecting or trying to, either. So it's hardly a "99% failure".

      The same is also true of internet marketing, by the way. And probably many other forms of self-employment.

      Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster View Post

      The only people who make money with MLM are the people on top.
      This is just prejudiced nonsense.

      I myself did it for a year, when I was 18, and made money from it.

      Everyone "joins" an MLM in the same position. Their incomes depend on what happens "below" them, not "above" them. Many of the highest-earning distributors in some of the world's longest-established MLM companies are people who've joined in recent years. Nobody earns more from their businesses than they do.

      Got any other opinionated nonsense you want refuted?
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      • Profile picture of the author Scrambler
        Sorry about the rambling post, however I just wanted to share some experiences with MLM.

        I dont think it is irrational to dislike MLM. There are lots of horror stories out there about folks spending thousands of dollars trying to strike it rich in MLM. And lets face it, anyone that has a friend or relative into MLM will tell you its no fun getting the sales pitch all the time.

        I think the key to doing well with MLM is finding a good program that offers you some flexibility. It also means working hard, get rich quick seekers should avoid MLM. Many MLM programs are very restrictive when it comes to promoting their products online. So do your research and fully understand the terms in your "consultant" contract if you go the MLM route.

        If you violate the terms of your consultant contract, especially if you are working online, your fellow consultants will dime you out to your "upline" supervisor / consultant. If you are lucky its a warning, if you are not lucky you are booted. To me thats a major drawback with MLM, I am not free to go for it and unleash the marketing hounds when it comes to promoting products.

        Also, understand that you are working for another company and overnight they can make you or break you.

        Our last best effort in serious online MLM was in the health, beauty, and fitness market. This particular MLM pushed the products of well known model / actress who was popular in the 70s and 80s. She is now a marketing powerhouse on cable shopping networks, online, etc....

        I jumped on the band wagon early and each consultant was given a cheesy cookie cutter sales website with a shopping cart. As long as I did not list my name, affiliation with the program, or the name of said supermodel in my domain name the terms of the consultant contract were silent on creating a site to funnel customers to my cheesy consultant site shopping pages. And thats exactly what I did.

        While I was not getting rich it only took a few months to start seeing about a hundred bucks a month in commissions. But this was very early in the game and business was increasing steadily.

        Once some of the more traditional MLM upper tier folks figured out what I was doing it did not take long to start getting some hate mail. Some actually demanded I joined their upsell tree or "face the consequences." In my opinion they were really more interested in keeping the "herd" under control, or in this case under the wing of their up sell network. This lone wolf strategy was very unsettling to them.

        However other consultants really thought I had a good thing going and wanted to replicate what I was doing.

        Naturally the next step in the plan, which I know was going to royally piss off the upper tier, was to set up a reseller account on Host Gator and host other consultants websites like mine for a monthly fee.

        Alas all good things come to an end. Before I could move on scaling up supermodel sold off her MLM to a much larger MLM where commissions were pitiful and went back to hawking her wares on cable TV and the net.

        After doing a cost benefit exercise I determined proceeding was just not a good option.
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      • Profile picture of the author TheSalesBooster
        Originally Posted by Bluesman Of MLM View Post

        Great source you have there. You may want to educate yourself first before saying the only ones on the top make money. Sounds very ignorant
        Well known TV show vs your opinion. Guess who wins?



        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Most of them, of course, aren't expecting or trying to, either. So it's hardly a "99% failure".

        The same is also true of internet marketing, by the way. And probably many other forms of self-employment.
        aren't expecting or trying to make money?

        So people like spending their time and money for nothing?

        and the 99% figure is pretty accurate. Go look at any income disclosure statements from any MLM company. You will see that 99%+ of the members never make enough money to live off of. Meaning they make less than 5k-10k a year.

        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post


        This is just prejudiced nonsense.

        I myself did it for a year, when I was 18, and made money from it.

        Everyone "joins" an MLM in the same position. Their incomes depend on what happens "below" them, not "above" them. Many of the highest-earning distributors in some of the world's longest-established MLM companies are people who've joined in recent years. Nobody earns more from their businesses than they do.

        Got any other opinionated nonsense you want refuted?

        HA!, can you backup your statements about the people who recently join make the most? because that's just wrong.

        When I say the people at the top are making the most, I'm talking about the actual owners and people who have a stake in those companies. Those are the real winners in MLM.

        Also I said most people don't make enough money to live off of. Not that they don't make money. You obviously didn't make any real money otherwise you would still be doing it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster View Post

          aren't expecting or trying to make money?
          That wasn't what you said. You said "enough money to live off of". :rolleyes:

          Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster View Post

          So people like spending their time and money for nothing?
          Nobody suggested anything like that. You're trying to refute something that wasn't even said. :rolleyes:

          Many are in it just through being regularly re-ordering customers, who've signed up in order to get their own products at a wholesale discount. Those people are all "distributors" as well, and they're all included in the statistics you're "quoting" (actually you're "quoting" nothing - you're just making it up as you go along, as people habitually do when they're full of opinionated nonsense). Many are not promoting the business at all. Many more are promoting it only a little, and have no intention of trying to make enough money "to live off of". You can dispute it until you're blue in the face, but you can't stop it from being true, because it is. :rolleyes:

          Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster View Post

          and the 99% figure is pretty accurate.
          Nobody disputed the figure.

          Just what it signified. :rolleyes:

          Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster View Post

          Go look at any income disclosure statements from any MLM company. You will see that 99%+ of the members never make enough money to live off of. Meaning they make less than 5k-10k a year.
          Nobody disputed that.

          The same is doubtless true of internet marketing as well. :rolleyes:

          Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster View Post

          Also I said most people don't make enough money to live off of. Not that they don't make money.
          Let's see, shall we? Here are your words (I'm pasting this): "The only people who make money with MLM are the people on top." As others above have correctly pointed out, that's untrue. It's prejudiced nonsense. There are plenty of people not "on top" making money, as well. I was one of them. Yes, I do incomparably better in IM than I ever did in MLM. I never made more than a few thousand from MLM, over a year, and I can't live on that. That doesn't make your "information" correct, or even plausible, though. And it isn't.
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          • Profile picture of the author TheSalesBooster
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            Let's see, shall we? Here are your words (I'm pasting this): "The only people who make money with MLM are the people on top." As others above have correctly pointed out, that's untrue. It's prejudiced nonsense. There are plenty of people not "on top" making money, as well. I was one of them. Yes, I do incomparably better in IM than I ever did in MLM. I never made more than a few thousand from MLM, over a year, and I can't live on that. That doesn't make your "information" correct, or even plausible, though. And it isn't.
            Of course people CAN possibly make money doing it. My whole point was even if you DID make money with it, chances are you wouldn't make enough to live off of it. Meaning its a waste of time.

            To me, making 3,000 doing MLM in a year isn't making money. You might think it's making money, but I consider that a huge loss because of the time you waste doing it.

            So your just nitpicking at the phrase "only the people at the top are making money" because you think someone making a couple thousand doing MLM in a year is making money. To me it's not, but you might because you probably don't value your time as much as me. Still doesn't change the fact that the people at the top are the ones who make 99%+ of all the money.
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  • Profile picture of the author napoleonfirst
    The MlM world is great if you are the founder of an MLM firm. You will have a strong sells force if you hire some of the top MLM recruiters out there to build strong network. This is the aspect that I love about MLM a cheap and strong force of sellers around the world.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kim Kula
    I am involved in MLM 1.5 years ago and trying to do something right, but to the realization, I don't do fare well in MLM system. I do want to thank Joshter and talfighel for valuable information on MLM. I am glad to find this forum and learn more about internet marketing methods. I am pursuing other avenues to earn money instead of asking people to join into my MLM business..it is too much hassle. I agree that some people dislike how MLM works, lose a friend, etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
    Originally Posted by Joshster View Post

    Hey guys,

    I have been involved in online marketing for around 6 months.
    And I have an instant aversion to anything MLM related...NM isn't far behind and I avoid it unless it's totally irresistible...

    Do you guys think I'm crazy, should I just do whatever to make money?

    Edit: I should add that I am into "Law of Attraction" type stuff and definitely want to pay forward and help and inspire others to achieve success on my way to personal success. I also have significant personal goals too
    If you don't like it, why did you start a thread about it? There must be many things you do like; why not concentrate on those. It just seems a little strange to me to ask people to talk you out of your dislikes because maybe if you changed your mind, you could make some money with them.

    The fact is, we can't ever do all the things we want to do at the high level we would like; there just isn't enough time in one lifetime. One of the most universal frustrations in life, and also the greatest cause of Warriors failing to make money, is trying to pursue too many things.

    So if you're crazy, it isn't for hating MLM, but for considering doing something you hate just for money when there are probably dozens of things you love that you won't get around to, that could each make you a multimillionaire.
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  • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
    Originally Posted by Joshster View Post

    Do you guys think I'm crazy, should I just do whatever to make money?
    It's best to focus on delivering real value to people.

    If you're genuinely concerned about the lives of
    people you do business with and you go out of your
    way to find things that can enhance their lives in
    various ways you should be doing well.

    Kindest regards,
    Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Strong
    Keep in mind when you're replying to previous posts that this thread is from last September, the OP hasn't posted in it since October. As usual, someone decided to bump the thread earlier today for some stupid reason, acting as if only a few hours have gone by.

    It's not like we don't see enough of these endless MLM argument threads already. Let's dig up the old ones so we can do it some more.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joshster
    I'm still keeping an eye out on the thread though
    ...and enjoying reading peoples views!
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    • Profile picture of the author cobwab
      MLM is just bullsh*t. It will cost you more than you make. See #73.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by cobwab View Post

        MLM is just bullsh*t. It will cost you more than you make. See #73.
        I love it when people post irrational BS as if it's fact... lol
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  • Profile picture of the author Kim Phoenix
    Well, years ago, I was involved with an MLM. It was the first business I ever did, but I spent WAY more than I ever made. I also wasted a lot of valuable time. In that particular business, it was the mentality of "fake it 'til you make it." You never really knew if anyone was making any money. However, I was always intrigued by Robert Kiyosaki's book, "Rich Dad, Poor Dad." In that book, he specifically mentioned that MLM was a smart thing as you could leverage your time to make money, instead of trading hours for dollars.

    Eventually, someone approached me about a different NM business. It was not MLM (based on how the compensation plan worked). I made real money with it, it had an awesome compensation plan, but it was still not for me. That money was all made on real sales, not on carried product inventory, etc.

    If you get into MLM or Network marketing, and you don't like talking to people, it will not be a good fit. I just didn't like feeling like I always had to be on the lookout for people to talk to about my business or my products as I went about ALL my daily activities. Many people don't mind this though, and it's a good fit for them.

    The reason MLM and NM has gotten a bad wrap is because there's been some MLM business owners who are fanatical. They're not all like that though. There are some very good business models out there, and you need to compare them before deciding on one that is right for you.

    In the end though, you have to enjoy what you're doing. I was making good money with the second one, but it was not what I wanted to be doing.

    Hope that helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kim Phoenix
    Just thought about something else....
    I should also add that although it wasn't for me, I know many people personally who do NM and they're making VERY GOOD money (the company publishes real cheque amounts). Plus, they don't get paid well if they don't work, so it's not MLM. In other words, they can't make money off the efforts of other people.

    All my point is is that people CAN make money with NM businesses (I didn't say MLM, because I only was involved with one, and the ones at the top were making most of the money in that business).

    Anyway, I would never advise anyone to become involved with MLM or NM if he/she wants to do it just for the money, and you don't have a thick skin. It's not an easy business, and it's not fun if you don't like it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lilpoboy1978
      I'm in a very new NM company and I am already making around $1200/mo residuals.. by summer I expect to be making around 8k a month at least. I don't normally get involved in these but this one had a product and comp plan that I could stand behind.

      Rock on.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bluesman Of MLM
    2 reasons why people fail in MLM --

    1 Consistency - There not consistent and expect to see results right away
    2 Leads - the truth is if you have no leads, you have no business.

    Does MLM work - definitely does. I can say that 100%- 8 months ago I was broke and just had enough to pay the rent. I still made it happen. I learned how to generate leads using the internet and my life changed.

    So please if anyone is reading this thread and seeing posts from people that say its BS- DONT LISTEN to them! Thats called ignorance. Either they never been involved and just voice their opinion because they think they know it or were involved and never took consistent action, so they quit and blame their failure on the industry, company etc, except their self.
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  • Profile picture of the author RachelLily
    You're not alone MLM is modern slavery. Assuming you like MLM stuff. If you work hard busting your ass everyday, and your up lines get passive income from your selling without doing anything, it seems to be a slavery is being conducted. Do you want to know why people are willing to do that? Mostly, because they are not to brilliant. Let us compare how many people are CEOs and how many people are employees, which one do you think has the more number? That is right my friend, the CEOs, because smart people are minority in this universe.

    Realized or not, MLM is fit to be considered as a modern method of slavery. Once people buy some slaves, they can sit back do nothing and their slaves will earn them money.

    In the past, rich land lords loved to buy slaves to do plenty of work for them. And the slaves loved to follow their masters for a small ransum of food. In the present time, it seems like the smart love to create a system of modern slavery, cloaked as MLM. And the dumb seem to love following it as slaves, earning their masters a lot, and a few for themselves.

    The masters enjoy incomes gladly without working, as normal human should react. They also consider establishing networks of slaves are decent investments. Of course, those the dumb and dumber down lines do not realize that they are slaves. They are the dumb plus lame, remember?
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by RachelLily View Post

      You're not alone MLM is modern slavery. Assuming you like MLM stuff. If you work hard busting your ass everyday, and your up lines get passive income from your selling without doing anything, it seems to be a slavery is being conducted. Do you want to know why people are willing to do that? Mostly, because they are not to brilliant. Let us compare how many people are CEOs and how many people are employees, which one do you think has the more number? That is right my friend, the CEOs, because smart people are minority in this universe.

      Realized or not, MLM is fit to be considered as a modern method of slavery. Once people buy some slaves, they can sit back do nothing and their slaves will earn them money.

      In the past, rich land lords loved to buy slaves to do plenty of work for them. And the slaves loved to follow their masters for a small ransum of food. In the present time, it seems like the smart love to create a system of modern slavery, cloaked as MLM. And the dumb seem to love following it as slaves, earning their masters a lot, and a few for themselves.

      The masters enjoy incomes gladly without working, as normal human should react. They also consider establishing networks of slaves are decent investments. Of course, those the dumb and dumber down lines do not realize that they are slaves. They are the dumb plus lame, remember?
      Thanks for the entertainment. That is, perhaps, the silliest anti-MLM post
      ever offered on this forum... and that's saying a lot... LOL
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    • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
      Originally Posted by RachelLily View Post

      You're not alone MLM is modern slavery. Assuming you like MLM stuff. If you work hard busting your ass everyday, and your up lines get passive income from your selling without doing anything, it seems to be a slavery is being conducted. Do you want to know why people are willing to do that? Mostly, because they are not to brilliant. Let us compare how many people are CEOs and how many people are employees, which one do you think has the more number? That is right my friend, the CEOs, because smart people are minority in this universe.

      Realized or not, MLM is fit to be considered as a modern method of slavery. Once people buy some slaves, they can sit back do nothing and their slaves will earn them money.

      In the past, rich land lords loved to buy slaves to do plenty of work for them. And the slaves loved to follow their masters for a small ransum of food. In the present time, it seems like the smart love to create a system of modern slavery, cloaked as MLM. And the dumb seem to love following it as slaves, earning their masters a lot, and a few for themselves.

      The masters enjoy incomes gladly without working, as normal human should react. They also consider establishing networks of slaves are decent investments. Of course, those the dumb and dumber down lines do not realize that they are slaves. They are the dumb plus lame, remember?
      I'm not a fan of MLM, but this has to be one of the silliest posts I've ever read on this forum. Slaves of the past never "loved to follow their masters for a small ransom of food"; the definition of slavery is forced labor; not people who sell themselves for large amounts of food.

      Obviously, they had to be fed to maintain the workforce, but not a "ransom of food"; this implies that slaves must have been idiots incapable of feeding themselves, therefore willing to give up their freedom and homes for food; absurd suggestion. You perhaps hold a world record for the most laughable misuse ever, of the word "ransom".

      And your tortured metaphor is otherwise clearly nonsense, because the definition of slavery is forced labor. You are calling people dumb for joining, but slaves were never taken because they were dumb, and got talked into it, even though it was a bad deal for them; they were taken by force.

      It has always struck me as odd how often you see people insulting others, while demonstrating the very characteristic they are trying to smear their targets with.

      If I were you, I'd avoid using the word "dumb" in future posts.
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  • Profile picture of the author karlmay1980
    To be honest I got into MLM and Network Marketing but didn't like it much, those at the top make the money and the money and usually rely on some at the bottom not making anything, so I got out.

    I do however after 4 or 5 years see and know lots of people making money quickly with some really good money these days with what look more ethical models that provide good resources to make money quickly.

    I think I may of just chose the wrong ones and jumped in when starting out, and have been very tempted to give it another crack recently.
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  • I started off in MLM but didn't work out for me. Too many cold calls or networking involved. Was a good experience though and got me into IM.

    Tough to get into though unless you love networking
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    • Profile picture of the author davidbatchelor
      Originally Posted by ExpertSEOServices View Post

      I started off in MLM but didn't work out for me. Too many cold calls or networking involved. Was a good experience though and got me into IM.

      Tough to get into though unless you love networking
      I hear ya.

      That is why I decided to out source the building of the MLM company I am with.

      That way I don't have to cold call, network or any of the other negatives associated with building an MLM business.

      The strategy is definitely working for me.
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    • Profile picture of the author sunnywonder
      Originally Posted by ExpertSEOServices View Post

      I started off in MLM but didn't work out for me. Too many cold calls or networking involved. Was a good experience though and got me into IM.

      Tough to get into though unless you love networking
      It's hard if the company doesn't provide you with the tools at your back office . I was with Efusjon in 2009 and all the marketings tools were there : website ,one click post on the facebook etc . Product was great ......
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  • Profile picture of the author davidtye
    I think the important thing is not whether it is MLM or not but is it ethical and morally ok?
    To make money you have to do what you have to do and if it is MLM so be it as long as it is a good product and genuinely ethical then sure.
    You are not scamming people and doing a runner so it is fine.
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  • Profile picture of the author Devin X
    Banned
    MLM is a distribution model. It is a sales job, NOT a business (it's not even a franchise). Serious entrepreneurs do not bother with MLM schemes unless they are creating them...which I frown upon anyway. I have strong opinions on the matter that I don't care to elaborate on right now, but know this, you are perfectly fine my friend. =)
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by TheRealDudeman View Post

      MLM is a distribution model. It is a sales job, NOT a business (it's not even a franchise). Serious entrepreneurs do not bother with MLM schemes unless they are creating them...which I frown upon anyway. I have strong opinions on the matter that I don't care to elaborate on right now, but know this, you are perfectly fine my friend. =)
      Man... I wish I had known all this before I paid a buttload of taxes
      on my not a business these past many years. Crap... just when I
      thought I was a serious entrepreneur the final judge and arbiter of
      all that is entrepreneurial has decided I'm not.

      Save me from myself... I'm begging you!
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      • Profile picture of the author sunnywonder
        Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

        Man... I wish I had known all this before I paid a buttload of taxes
        on my not a business these past many years. Crap... just when I
        thought I was a serious entrepreneur the final judge and arbiter of
        all that is entrepreneurial has decided I'm not.

        Save me from myself... I'm begging you!
        Depends what MLM you are in . For example , my previous matrix was able to hold 31,000 people and when you filled it up you are staying with the same residual income if you are satisfied if not then get another spot and build another matrix and so on ....Unlimited business centers = unlimited $$$$
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        • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
          Originally Posted by sunnywonder View Post

          Depends what MLM you are in . For example , my previous matrix was able to hold 31,000 people and when you filled it up you are staying with the same residual income if you are satisfied if not then get another spot and build another matrix and so on ....Unlimited business centers = unlimited $$$$
          I think you misunderstood my post... I was being sarcastic
          to the guy who said what I do isn't a business and I'm not an
          entrepreneur.
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  • Profile picture of the author sunnywonder
    Well , there is no right answer to this question unless you experience the "pyramid" and went through your own ups and downs . A little info on the pyramid scheme .
    Pyramid scheme happens when the company persuades business through a change of money from one person to another, without a physical exchange of product. A typical Network Marketing company these days offers products in exchange for compensation or sales commission. Think about Herbalife, Amway, Mary Kay , Quixstar etc.
    The government has cracked down on the pyramid schemes and as well as network marketing companies on it entire. To avoid been dragged into the scheme always check:
    Does the company have license?
    Are they backed up by the law firm?
    Is the product changing hands?
    Do you get paid on the volume of the product sold?
    Another typical problem with Network Marketing Companies /Multi Level Marketing companies is that they compensate people differently -some make money under one plan, some under another .
    I'd tried almost all with no success in some and with the great success in another . All network companies have the potential to make you money depending on how hard you are willing to work. The real question is,"Is this network marketing company past what is known as a saturation point?"
    More to come ,running out of time but love the subject
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  • Profile picture of the author moneymakerway
    MLM business could be an opportunity worth checking in my opinion!
    But the most important thing is creating your own site and building a list. I mean I try to do this in a proper way through providing value and building trust and relationships.
    I like diversification and going with only one business opportunity (can be MLM) can be risky because you really don't know what is going to happen with it in the future.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
    Hmmmm... I noticed the post saying MLM is modern day slavery. That got me really thinking. Let's compare 2 business models.

    1. Corporate... One top guy and tons of people working under him or her. Chances for any of his or her workers making it to the big guy position is little to none.

    2. MLM... Every person in the network has the same chance as each other to make it to a big guy position. In fact all can make it to a big guy position if they work hard at it.

    Now what model looks more like slavery? I know neither are. Was just a fun comparison.

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  • Profile picture of the author davidbatchelor
    Many of us already know that the MLM Industry is currently around $130 Billion per year. It is Endorsed by virtually all the major Billionaires out there (Buffet, Clinton, Gates, Trump, Kiyosaki) and on its way to a Trillion$ Industry.

    The public's inability to SELL is MLM's #1 epidemic problem.
    People can't make money. People dropping out = Attrition.

    Over 99% fail in MLM. Because most people CANNOT sell. Over 99% are NOT Professional Salesmen. Only less than 1% succeed.

    But there is good news. There is a light at the end of the MLM tunnel...

    Listen, we hire an ATTORNEY when we need legal representation. We hire a DOCTOR when we need our health/Bodies fixed. We hire Engineers to build for us. But in the world of MLM, and the obvious Profession that is in dire need to-be-hired, a Professional Salesmen or SYSTEM for HIRE was never available.

    LOGIC: Successful Salespeople are well trained and in a league of their own, much like Doctors, Attorneys and Engineers. TRYING TO SELL on your own is the same way an ordinary person would try to spearhead their own medical treatment or surgery or draw up their own legal contracts. *Not wise!

    So in "MLM", when a Sales "Leader" tells you: "if I can do it - anyone can do it too" - is perhaps one of the biggest misleading statement anyone can make.

    In simple words...

    • We hire an ATTORNEY when we need legal representation. • We hire a DOCTOR when we need our health/Bodies fixed. • We hire Engineers & Architects to build for us.

    So Why Not Hire PROFESSIONALS to build your Network Marketing Business - For you?

    In the world of MLM, and the obvious Profession that is Direly-Needed;
    A Professional Salesmen or SYSTEM for HIRE was never available.
    Until now...
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    • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
      Originally Posted by davidbatchelor View Post

      Many of us already know that the MLM Industry is currently around $130 Billion per year. It is Endorsed by virtually all the major Billionaires out there (Buffet, Clinton, Gates, Trump, Kiyosaki) and on its way to a Trillion$ Industry.

      The public's inability to SELL is MLM's #1 epidemic problem.
      People can't make money. People dropping out = Attrition.

      Over 99% fail in MLM. Because most people CANNOT sell. Over 99% are NOT Professional Salesmen. Only less than 1% succeed.
      My experience with MLM has been people that are salesmen suck at it. MLM is a completely different marketing channel. I personally find if someone joins my downline and follow my instructions to the "T" they do great. But when a salesman joins they usually think their way of selling is best and end up quitting and saying MLM is bull.

      Now a salesman that CAN totally and completely forget what they have learned about selling and CAN follow instructions does fine with MLM.

      MLM is about sharing, not selling. MLM products are sold by becoming a product of the product. You "share" your experiences with a product the same way you share information about a great restaurant you found or a great movie you watched.

      Now if you forget about the network marketing approach MLM follows, a salesman could do fine "selling" products just like the old vacuum salesman did.

      You may personally be seeing different results with salesman. But I sure have not in my many years of experience with MLM.

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      • Profile picture of the author davidbatchelor
        Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant View Post

        My experience with MLM has been people that are salesmen suck at it. MLM is a completely different marketing channel. I personally find if someone joins my downline and follow my instructions to the "T" they do great. But when a salesman joins they usually think their way of selling is best and end up quitting and saying MLM is bull.

        Now a salesman that CAN totally and completely forget what they have learned about selling and CAN follow instructions does fine with MLM.

        MLM is about sharing, not selling. MLM products are sold by becoming a product of the product. You "share" your experiences with a product the same way you share information about a great restaurant you found or a great movie you watched.

        Now if you forget about the network marketing approach MLM follows, a salesman could do fine "selling" products just like the old vacuum salesman did.

        You may personally be seeing different results with salesman. But I sure have not in my many years of experience with MLM.

        Re's
        Rob Whisonant
        Hey Rob,

        A professional salesperson is all about finding needs and providing solutions. So I would have to totally disagree with you and your assumptions about professional sales people.

        So seen as you are making such bold claims where are your third party credentials to back that up?
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        • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
          Originally Posted by davidbatchelor View Post

          Hey Rob,

          A professional salesperson is all about finding needs and providing solutions. So I would have to totally disagree with you and your assumptions about professional sales people.

          So seen as you are making such bold claims where are your third party credentials to back that up?
          Let's see. Personal business experience with training MLM downline. Personal experience of many other MLM experts I work with.

          Also when you get a chance, go talk to Don Failla or his wife. I guess you could call them MLM experts on steroids. They will tell you the same thing.

          Let me know if I am wrong on this. You sell a product to teach people to be salesmen. Am I correct?

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          Rob Whisonant
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          • Profile picture of the author davidbatchelor
            Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant View Post

            Let's see. Personal business experience with training MLM downline. Personal experience of many other MLM experts I work with.

            Also when you get a chance, go talk to Don Failla or his wife. I guess you could call them MLM experts on steroids. They will tell you the same thing.

            Let me know if I am wrong on this. You sell a product to teach people to be salesmen. Am I correct?

            Re's
            Rob Whisonant
            Hey Rob,

            I said third party validation.

            So for example, a few monthly business reports with your KPI's.

            Or which MLM company are you with and how big is your team? Which level are you at in the compensation plan?

            You are mistaken, we are a sales and marketing company dedicated to it's members to build their businesses virally. Our members do not have to sell anything, we do it for them.
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            • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
              Originally Posted by davidbatchelor View Post

              Hey Rob,

              I said third party validation.

              So for example, a few monthly business reports with your KPI's.

              Or which MLM company are you with and how big is your team? Which level are you at in the compensation plan?

              You are mistaken, we are a sales and marketing company dedicated to it's members to build their businesses virally. Our members do not have to sell anything, we do it for them.
              I'm not going to play mine is bigger than yours with you. Sorry about that. Just go talk to the THIRD party I mentioned. He and his wife are experts and looked up to by everyone in the know in the MLM scene.

              Apparently OUR experiences differ. That's not a problem. That's called life. You train the way you see as the best and I will train the way I see is best. It's really that simple.

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              Rob Whisonant
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              • Profile picture of the author davidbatchelor
                Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant View Post

                I'm not going to play mine is bigger than yours with you. Sorry about that. Just go talk to the THIRD party I mentioned. He and his wife are experts and looked up to by everyone in the know in the MLM scene.

                Apparently OUR experiences differ. That's not a problem. That's called life. You train the way you see as the best and I will train the way I see is best. It's really that simple.

                Re's
                Rob Whisonant
                Ah as I thought, no actual third party documentation.

                That's OK, I learnt years ago that documentation wins over conversation every time.

                I wish you success anyways.

                Warmly,
                ~ David
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                • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
                  Originally Posted by davidbatchelor View Post

                  Ah as I thought, no actual third party documentation.

                  That's OK, I learnt years ago that documentation wins over conversation every time.

                  I wish you success anyways.

                  Warmly,
                  ~ David
                  Do you know who Don Failla is? Did you call Don Failla? He can provide you with the type of facts you are looking for. He actually enjoys doing that.

                  Was trying to help you out by pointing you to an expert on the subject matter at hand.

                  Like I said before my PERSONAL experience is the opposite of yours.

                  Note I said PERSONAL in all my posts about it.

                  What you do may work for you. In fact it must work or you would not be doing it. But... For me and most people in the business they find it does not work for them.

                  I did not you say you do ALL the work for everyone. If that's the case then who really cares as long as the bottom line is getting a bigger boat! Cue Jaws music here.

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                  Rob Whisonant
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                  • Profile picture of the author davidbatchelor
                    Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant View Post

                    Do you know who Don Failla is? Did you call Don Failla? He can provide you with the type of facts you are looking for. He actually enjoys doing that.

                    Was trying to help you out by pointing you to an expert on the subject matter at hand.

                    Like I said before my PERSONAL experience is the opposite of yours.

                    Note I said PERSONAL in all my posts about it.

                    What you do may work for you. In fact it must work or you would not be doing it. But... For me and most people in the business they find it does not work for them.

                    I did not you say you do ALL the work for everyone. If that's the case then who really cares as long as the bottom line is getting a bigger boat! Cue Jaws music here.

                    Re's
                    Rob Whisonant
                    Hey Rob,

                    The thing is that above you were portraying yourself as the expert and now you are shifting the spot light to Don Failla. So one would have to assume that you are not nearly as successful as you tried to portray yourself earlier.

                    Rob, re read my post and then explain to everyone reading this how what you just said makes sense, when you said For me and most people in the business they find it does not work for them.

                    We are a sales and marketing company dedicated to it's members to build their businesses virally. Our members do not have to sell anything, we do it for them.

                    So as I already said, why wouldn't it work for most or in fact all?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
                      Originally Posted by davidbatchelor View Post

                      Hey Rob,

                      The thing is that above you were portraying yourself as the expert and now you are shifting the spot light to Don Failla. So one would have to assume that you are not nearly as successful as you tried to portray yourself earlier.

                      Rob, re read my post and then explain to everyone reading this how what you just said makes sense, when you said For me and most people in the business they find it does not work for them.

                      We are a sales and marketing company dedicated to it's members to build their businesses virally. Our members do not have to sell anything, we do it for them.

                      So as I already said, why wouldn't it work for most or in fact all?
                      You are moving back to trying to play mine is bigger than yours...

                      Plain and simple. You don't know me and I don't expect you to believe anything I say. Don has a lot more experience and success than me personally and I would venture to say all of us discussing this topic in this thread combined. He is also a well know expert on the subject. So I was pointing you to someone you possibly would know and respect. I'm not getting into semantics with you. I don't know you, have never heard of you and I'm sure you don't know me or have ever heard of me.

                      It's really no big deal to disagree with each other. That's what is nice about people and things being different. What works for you and apparently many does not work for me and many that I know. I'm sure the reverse is also true.

                      I don't corner the market on a method and neither do you. People are allowed to disagree on methods. No ONE method is the best, like no one brand of automobile is the best.

                      Now that you can take to the bank.

                      We are both way off topic now for this thread. It needs to move back to topic or run the risk of being locked.

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                      Rob Whisonant
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                      • Profile picture of the author davidbatchelor
                        Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant View Post

                        You are moving back to trying to play mine is bigger than yours...

                        Plain and simple. You don't know me and I don't expect you to believe anything I say. Don has a lot more experience and success than me personally and I would venture to say all of us discussing this topic in this thread combined. He is also a well know expert on the subject. So I was pointing you to someone you possibly would know and respect. I'm not getting into semantics with you. I don't know you, have never heard of you and I'm sure you don't know me or have ever heard of me.

                        It's really no big deal to disagree with each other. That's what is nice about people and things being different. What works for you and apparently many does not work for me and many that I know. I'm sure the reverse is also true.

                        I don't corner the market on a method and neither do you. People are allowed to disagree on methods. No ONE method is the best, like no one brand of automobile is the best.

                        Now that you can take to the bank.

                        We are both way off topic now for this thread. It needs to move back to topic or run the risk of being locked.

                        Re's
                        Rob Whisonant
                        I totally agree Rob.

                        As I previously said, I wish you success.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
                    Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant View Post

                    Do you know who Don Failla is? Did you call Don Failla? He can provide you with the type of facts you are looking for. He actually enjoys doing that.

                    Was trying to help you out by pointing you to an expert on the subject matter at hand.

                    Like I said before my PERSONAL experience is the opposite of yours.

                    Note I said PERSONAL in all my posts about it.

                    What you do may work for you. In fact it must work or you would not be doing it. But... For me and most people in the business they find it does not work for them.

                    I did not you say you do ALL the work for everyone. If that's the case then who really cares as long as the bottom line is getting a bigger boat! Cue Jaws music here.

                    Re's
                    Rob Whisonant
                    Rob...

                    Do yourself a huge favor and ignore David. He loves to run
                    around forums pretending to be an MLM expert when, based
                    on everything I've ever seen him post, he actually knows very
                    little.... based on my 30+ years in this business. You are precisely
                    correct about the success rate of professional salesmen... they don't
                    make great network marketers for a variety of reasons until they
                    learn to set aside most of what they've been taught in the world outside
                    of mlm.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
                      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

                      based on my 30+ years in this business. You are precisely
                      correct about the success rate of professional salesmen... they don't
                      make great network marketers for a variety of reasons until they
                      learn to set aside most of what they've been taught in the world outside
                      of mlm.
                      Thank you. You actually summed up what I was trying to share in less and more precise words.

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                      Rob Whisonant
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                    • Profile picture of the author davidbatchelor
                      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

                      Rob...

                      Do yourself a huge favor and ignore David. He loves to run
                      around forums pretending to be an MLM expert when, based
                      on everything I've ever seen him post, he actually knows very
                      little.... based on my 30+ years in this business. You are precisely
                      correct about the success rate of professional salesmen... they don't
                      make great network marketers for a variety of reasons until they
                      learn to set aside most of what they've been taught in the world outside
                      of mlm.
                      Are you still holding a grudge because of me calling you out on the SendOutCards forum?

                      As already stated, professional sales is all about finding a need and offering a solution, if you choose to ignore that, you do it at your own peril.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
                        Originally Posted by davidbatchelor View Post

                        Are you still holding a grudge because of me calling you out on the SendOutCards forum?

                        As already stated, professional sales is all about finding a need and offering a solution, if you choose to ignore that, you do it at your own peril.
                        Nice try...you didn't call me out on anything... anywhere.

                        I know very well what professional sales is about... I'm one
                        of the best you'll ever have the pleasure of meeting. I also
                        know that the strategies and tactics employed by professional
                        salespeople are a little too over the top for mlm.

                        Anyone with any success and experience in mlm has learned
                        that any time you have to sell someone on joining you they
                        don't stick around long.

                        I suppose if one off commissions is all you care about then go for it.
                        If long term residual income is your goal you might want to try a different
                        strategy.
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                        If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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                        • Profile picture of the author davidbatchelor
                          Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

                          Nice try...you didn't call me out on anything... anywhere.

                          I know very well what professional sales is about... I'm one
                          of the best you'll ever have the pleasure of meeting. I also
                          know that the strategies and tactics employed by professional
                          salespeople are a little too over the top for mlm.

                          Anyone with any success and experience in mlm has learned
                          that any time you have to sell someone on joining you they
                          don't stick around long.

                          I suppose if one off commissions is all you care about then go for it.
                          If long term residual income is your goal you might want to try a different
                          strategy.
                          Here we go, another person promoting supposedly how good they are. Please if you are that good, you don't need to blow your own trumpet to try and get peoples attention.

                          Professional sales is even more important in MLM because they are both about finding a need and offering a solution by asking the right questions it is as simple as that.

                          Any tactics that employ manipulation or anything like that is definitely not professional sales despite what you might try and get some to believe.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                            Gentlemen... There are a number of reasons MLM-related discussions tend not to last here. The hostility that usually comes with them is one of the biggest.

                            Let's try to be civil, eh?


                            Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author ekxstores
    Herbalife I heard is huge MLM. Its a traded stock, but not really doing that well.

    I avoid MLMs myself.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ben Gordon
    The truth? MLM is only really profitable if you're the owner or in the first levels. True story: a company made a physical product and started selling it (I think they were selling like 200 units a day at the time). I told him I would gradually increase his sales with no effort on his part for a fee. Cause he knew me well from other partnerships we've done, he decided to give it a go. All I did was print flyers and put them inside every purchase basically saying to sign up as an affiliate and get paid good money for selling these. What do you know? Next thing I knew we had recruited thousands of people who sold the stuff for him. Up to day he's selling over 5,000 units a day, and around 75% of it comes from the MLM scheme (plus it's growing).
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  • Profile picture of the author thedanbrown
    Originally Posted by Joshster View Post

    Hey guys,

    I have been involved in online marketing for around 6 months.
    And I have an instant aversion to anything MLM related...NM isn't far behind and I avoid it unless it's totally irresistible...

    Do you guys think I'm crazy, should I just do whatever to make money?

    Edit: I should add that I am into "Law of Attraction" type stuff and definitely want to pay forward and help and inspire others to achieve success on my way to personal success. I also have significant personal goals too
    It really depends on how you define mlm. Like some people see Empower Network as MLM or really any multi-tier compensation structure...

    Personally I think there are some really good and no-scam multi-tier programs so I would say that you should do your research before you judge a company.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joshster
      Hey Dan,

      I changed my mind and decided not to post my thoughts on EN!

      Nice blog BTW


      Originally Posted by thedanbrown View Post

      It really depends on how you define mlm. Like some people see Empower Network as MLM or really any multi-tier compensation structure...

      Personally I think there are some really good and no-scam multi-tier programs so I would say that you should do your research before you judge a company.
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  • Profile picture of the author ZaneAbden
    The Best way to make MLM work for you and other is not by asking them to join you but by helping solve their problems using your MLM products then from here if they see the result of your MLM products then it will be so easy for them to join your team and then from here they can go and look for similar people who they have similar problem to them before they try your MLM products and so on
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  • Profile picture of the author ldb102082
    I think the issue with MLM's is people dont go into it with a clear understanding that its a zero sum game. At the end of the day your social network becomes depleted and someone's left holding the bag.
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    • Profile picture of the author tigertale
      I've heard that in any MLM company about 3% of the people in it do extremely well. About 90% give up any particular company within a year.

      I know one of the 3% guys. He has a hide as thick as a turtle shell. He would be in the top 3 % of any company. He is only interested in the business, not the product. If the people under him lose money, he doesn't care. I'm not saying they are all like that but I couldn't do it.

      There is so much information on the internet about companies, owners, complaints, etc. that it is easy to find what flaws companies have.

      It amazes me that so many people do not bother to research where they are putting their money and time.

      Also I've found that it is difficult to have a strictly unique MLM product that won't soon have something similar that is priced better in stores.

      They may claim that they save on advertising costs. But when they are paying out seven levels that it is a lot of product cost. (If you don't have any levels, guess who makes all that extra profit).

      If selling and recruiting are your thing - go for it.

      Me, no thanks.
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      • Profile picture of the author thewebspot
        Originally Posted by tigertale View Post

        I've heard that in any MLM company about 3% of the people in it do extremely well. About 90% give up any particular company within a year.

        I know one of the 3% guys. He has a hide as thick as a turtle shell. He would be in the top 3 % of any company. He is only interested in the business, not the product. If the people under him lose money, he doesn't care. I'm not saying they are all like that but I couldn't do it.

        There is so much information on the internet about companies, owners, complaints, etc. that it is easy to find what flaws companies have.

        It amazes me that so many people do not bother to research where they are putting their money and time.

        Also I've found that it is difficult to have a strictly unique MLM product that won't soon have something similar that is priced better in stores.

        They may claim that they save on advertising costs. But when they are paying out seven levels that it is a lot of product cost. (If you don't have any levels, guess who makes all that extra profit).

        If selling and recruiting are your thing - go for it.

        Me, no thanks.
        You would have to recruit many people. Just recruit that guy lol
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      • Profile picture of the author thewebspot
        You can't convince people that are sour on it. A lot of network marketing is speed. You just have to move on instead of showing proof and credibility that it is real (with a good company). Those people wont be good at it.

        I do it. I love it. Its not easy. I dont make a lot. Enough to pay for my 2 cars. You cant support a family. You have to look at it as additional income. Ill take a free car or 2.

        To be successful at it you have to have credibility. That's why it is hard for young people especially talking to older people. If Warren Buffet sat down and showed you a presentation and wanted you to join, you would join. If its the brother-in-law who starts and never finishes anything shows you it, you wont want any part.
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        • Profile picture of the author Ron Smith
          Network marketing is misunderstood by most people including a substantial portion of the forum members on this thread. It is similar to Internet marketing in that most people will fail. The ones who pick a good company offering quality products or services, take the time to learn the business and treat it like a business and most importantly stick with it until they make it work will be rewarded with a nice residual income. The rest will fail and say that it doesn't work. Some mlm pros have offered some good advice in this thread. MLM is not easy. Most people won't have the persistence or character to do it. Just like IM.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by ldb102082 View Post

      I think the issue with MLM's is people dont go into it with a clear understanding that its a zero sum game.
      That's an interesting statement. How is it a zero sum game?
      That claim generally means someone must lose in order for
      someone to win. Please explain how that applies to a legitimate
      MLM.

      At the end of the day your social network becomes depleted and someone's left holding the bag.
      That certainly has never been my experience.
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    • Profile picture of the author CyberAlien
      Originally Posted by ldb102082 View Post

      I think the issue with MLM's is people dont go into it with a clear understanding that its a zero sum game. At the end of the day your social network becomes depleted and someone's left holding the bag.
      Really? So that's the case with huge company's like Mary Kay and Avon lol?
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  • Profile picture of the author Oliver Williams
    When you think about how many unethical marketing tactics that have been employed over the years (by a select few) it is not irrational to dislike MLM related stuff.

    It's the old story of a select few hurting the reputation of the industry making it harder for the honest companies out there.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
      Originally Posted by Oliver Williams View Post

      When you think about how many unethical marketing tactics that have been employed over the years (by a select few) it is not irrational to dislike MLM related stuff.

      It's the old story of a select few hurting the reputation of the industry making it harder for the honest companies out there.
      This is also true of people under the "internet marketing" umbrella, wall street firms, banks, doctors, lawyers, etc.

      Granted that some over-zealous mlmers (and companies) have given the industry a black-eye, but that can be said about nearly anything else.

      Then again, I see a ton of irrational stuff in this forum every time I log in here. Take a look at any autoresponder thread and roughly 1 to 2% of what's in those threads contain the truth.

      Jump over to the SEO forum and you'll see irrational stuff in there all the time. It reminds me of people who agrue over what's better, a PC or an Apple computer? Or paid advertising versus SEO (or versus social networking), etc.

      People have irrational opinions all the time. Darn, I have quite a few of them myself. Part of it is marketer's bias and part of it is people reguritating what they've read elsewhere and some parts of it is bad experience. I know plenty of people who hate mlm / network marketing/ relationship marketing / whatever you call it / simply because they attended ONE presentation and it turned them off.

      Ok, that's going to happen. But that's a symptom of a bigger issue; one could argue that most people quit nearly anything that seems like it's going to involve too much work.

      A true, professional network marketer is going to run their business like a business. They aren't going to hassle their "warm market" (they don't need to) and they're going to have an effective, strategy which will involved using many time-tested marketing principles (such as building their own list).

      I can understand some people's sentiments, but I still contend that people who don't do any or very little research and just dislike mlm because of preconceived notions or something they've read from someone else is irrational.

      Then again, we see it every day in this forum.

      RoD

      Originally Posted by Chase Watts View Post

      Really? So that's the case with huge company's like Mary Kay and Avon lol?
      I'm glad you brought this up. I onced dated a very successful Mary Kay representative. She worked her ass off for many years, but ultimately got to a point where she could quit her job and stay at home with her family.

      It was a tough, hard road for her, but she treated it like a real business. And as she built her business she beefed up her skill set such as her sale's skills, online marketing funnels, how to get targeted traffic, attend networking events, reached out to her local community, etc.

      Most people FAIL at ANY business because it's NOT easy. It's not unique to mlm, it's not unique to internet marketing, it's not unique to any of IM's subsets (like affiliate marketing), etc. It takes hard work, street smarts, and a certain perservance to make it in any business.

      RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author Make Money Ninja
    To OP:

    I am a fan of Napoleon Hill and the law of attraction, manifestation, whatever you want to call it.

    I find it entertaining, but sadly it is total bullshit.

    The only thing that gets results is getting rid of distractions and doing the work. Also, question everything and never accept anything unless it has solid logical/scientific principals that proove its worth. The law of attraction sadly has none of these.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Make Money Ninja View Post

      The law of attraction sadly has none of these.
      I'm on your side of that discussion, in general, and I agree with all the rest of your post. But "none" is a slight exaggeration, here. (Some aspects of it actually have a fairly unambiguously proven underlying basis in behavioral psychology. "Just saying" ).
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    • Profile picture of the author John Rogers
      Originally Posted by Make Money Ninja View Post

      To OP:

      I am a fan of Napoleon Hill and the law of attraction, manifestation, whatever you want to call it.

      I find it entertaining, but sadly it is total bullshit.

      The only thing that gets results is getting rid of distractions and doing the work. Also, question everything and never accept anything unless it has solid logical/scientific principals that proove its worth. The law of attraction sadly has none of these.
      I agree in the sense that if you think it's bullshit, it's not going to work for you.

      I also agree that there is a lot of stuff out there that is oversimplified or written by people trying to make money from the popularity of a phenomenon that they know nothing about.

      On the other side of the coin, I read Think and Grow Rich in the mid 90's, used some of the "law of attraction" stuff in the book, and it produced results that I specifically attribute to doing those exercises.
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      • Profile picture of the author davidbatchelor
        Originally Posted by John Rogers View Post

        I agree in the sense that if you think it's bullshit, it's not going to work for you.

        I also agree that there is a lot of stuff out there that is oversimplified or written by people trying to make money from the popularity of a phenomenon that they know nothing about.

        On the other side of the coin, I read Think and Grow Rich in the mid 90's, used some of the "law of attraction" stuff in the book, and it produced results that I specifically attribute to doing those exercises.
        Obviously it works provided we take the action like you did John.

        The biggest issue why it doesn't work for so many is they don't follow through like you did and take massive action.
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    • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
      Originally Posted by Make Money Ninja View Post

      To OP:

      I am a fan of Napoleon Hill and the law of attraction, manifestation, whatever you want to call it.

      I find it entertaining, but sadly it is total bullshit.

      The only thing that gets results is getting rid of distractions and doing the work. Also, question everything and never accept anything unless it has solid logical/scientific principals that proove its worth. The law of attraction sadly has none of these.
      Napoleon Hill goes well beyond just LOA. He is also the one that says if your plan doesn't work, scrap it. When Hill teamed up with C.W. Stone they placed an emphasis on having a 'success system' that never fails. That goes well beyond wishful thinking. They both knew you had to sell something to someone too.
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