Is it irrational to dislike MLM related stuff?

The main problem I have with with MLM is that you are building someone else's business. You are building them a sales network which you have little control over. They can change terms, payouts or go out of business. At least if you are an affiliate marketer who has a list, you can change the product you are promoting if the product is bad, or payments arent made properly. You have some control over the sales network.

David

There are really some good replies in this thread. Yeah MLM does have a bad rep in quite a couple of ways. MLM as an idea is actually pretty ok. The execution of it though can really suck big time eg pipedreams mlm. MLM based on solid/good products and services are a step in the right direction. And some of this companies are listed on stock exchanges.

That said, it's gonna be a lot healtier for you to focus on what you wanna do rather than what you don't want to do or averse to. Just let it slight and be neutral about it. It's perfectly fine though to say nah selling pipe dreams without anything to back it up just ain't my style

But did you learn from those reputable companies that you would need to have a business background to succeed? Or did they sell you the promise of an instant business and all the training needed for anyone to succeed in it? If it's the latter, then maybe the good reputation isn't so well deserved.

As a matter of fact, the term "reputable company" is totally meaningless, since companies spend millions to control their image to sell more; not to give people a clear picture or the good and bad.

If companies were forced to advertise their dark side, many would lose 99% of their customers instantly; a lot of people have been murdered by proxies to enhance the profits of companies that remain respected, household names. When hundreds of millions or billions are at stake, the gloves often come off.

Ford motor company, and I believe the bulk of the biggest oil companies at the time, gave preferential treatment to their Nazi customer over the US during WWII; they played both sides, but many expected and preferred that the Nazis would succeed. Somehow I doubt that played prominently in company literature and ads in the US.

I suspect not many people would have joined Mary Kaye, had the brochure contained pictures of some of the thousands of cute little bunnies with "scientists" dropping chemicals in their eyes to see how fast they would burn, alongside the pretty pink Caddies. But it matters not; the company remains one of the most "reputable" of MLMs; truth and reputation are distant cousins at best.

*Shudder*. I remember that. I got in a discussion with a potential "upline" about "well, why can't I just post the object I'm selling online like a normal product"? (I actually still like that particular product...)

She flipped a lid. "No of course you can't do that! It's illegal! How dare you! If they did it like that, then we wouldn't have downlines!!!"

*Sigh*. I was like, 19. I wish I would have just called the main company instead of taking her word for it.

1. MLM is a business model and distribution channel (nothing more).

Michelle made an excellent point. If a company has great products and happens to use MLM as its distribution model, put your prejudice aside to decide whether or not the company's business model, products and distribution method fits your personality, lifestyle and business goals.

Case in point: My sister just decided to get involved with Pampered Chef, which sells quality kitchenware through home parties. It's a great fit for her because she's an outgoing person with a lot of affluent friends. When she told me about it, I asked her if the company used Multi-level Marketing. She had to ask her husband what that meant. It really wasn't an issue for her because the business was so suitable for her.

Marcia Yudkin

Not quite.

An MLM company, specifically, is a network marketing company in which the commissions paid for sales of the company's products are divided between multiple levels. That's most, but not all, of them.

I'm no lawyer, but that's the effective legal and regulatory definition (I think in almost all parts of the world - certainly everywhere where MLM is flourishing).

There are other network marketing companies in which the commissions are not divided between multiple levels - so the terms "network marketing" and "multi-level marketing" are not actually the same thing.

There are direct sales companies, some of which are NM companies (but others aren't) ...
There are NM companies, some (most) of which are MLM companies (but others aren't).

The people I've known who have made high-6-figure and 7-figure incomes from network marketing haven't done that at all, and haven't even been willing to sponsor people who intend to do that because they wouldn't be willing to spend time "supporting" downline members with those 1950's-style approaches. They believe in presenting their business opportunity only to people who are already looking for a business opportunity, not in trying to "persuade" anyone.

Their experience is that it's easy to "persuade" people and sign them up, but those people are all among the 90%-95% who drop out, and aren't still there a year later building your business for you.

It has this in common with affiliate marketing, article marketing, and most aspects of internet marketing, actually: quality and relevance are everything, and people with a quantitative approach to it are the ones who "make up the numbers" - in more ways than one.

My problem with MLM (and I'm an ex-MLMer myself, who isn't at all "anti" MLM) isn't really with MLM at all: it's with all the scammy things pretending to be MLM which are actually illegal pyramids. There seem to be far more of those than genuine MLM's. Eventually, a regulatory case against them builds up (usually - in the US - because they have few genuine retail customers and are really promoting mostly the opportunity to promote the opportunity - which is certainly illegal, if sometimes difficult to prove), and they tend to have a limited lifespan. But the people behind them then just start another one which also has a limited lifespan, and so on.

Although there are some good, very long established, supremely ethical MLM's in which the emphasis is on retailing genuine products of high quality at lower-than-shop prices (people can make millions in those: many have done so and many still are), it often seems there are more things pretending to be MLM than real MLM's, at the moment. I see one or two promoted regularly by Warriors which lawyer friends assure me won't still exist in 2 years' time. Some of the "distributors" know perfectly well what's going on, and are concerned only about how much they can make before the ax inevitably drops, knowing that they're almost certainly not, themselves, going to be prosecuted or sued. Others are genuinely naive enough not to think it through, check the founders' histories and the legal/regulatory situation, and will end up telling themselves that "they were unlucky" before repeating their mistakes all over again. And again. And again. Being similarly "unlucky" on every such occasion - a real triumph of hope over experience.

The sad reality is that it's often difficult for the public to tell the difference between a genuine MLM and an illegal pyramid sales company. The large latter group don't run around telling people "We're in pyramid sales and selling the opportunity to promote a business opportunity". They imitate legal, ethical, successful MLM's (typically glossing over the fact that they're not making many genuine retail sales to genuine retail customers who are not involved with the business opportunity at all - which regulators and courts care about very much indeed!), and as so many US court-case records and company wind-ups show, some of them do that successfully even for years, while all the time breaking the law. Unfortunately, this is simply factual.

My ex coworker was one of my best friends at work. He tried to get me in ACN. I didn't join because I didn't like MLM but went to the meeting anyway to support my friend. He doesn't talk to me anymore.

Oh they pressured me and pressured some more. It was scary. I didn't have a good experience.

You know what they say about "when ppl chase you, ppl run away" I felt like that.

Thank guys,

You just hit the nail on the head for me. Someone I know just asked me to do something for them (it's a certain type of personality that bothers me a little...I need to let that feeling go); and I was immediately reminded of these comments:

And

Yes Yes! Thank you.

************

Concentrate on what you want rather than focus any energy on negative things:
OH YES Thank you for that one!

Thank you all folks.

The MLM business model is not the problem. This can even happen with affiliate programs. They can start out paying 30% commission and then suddenly change it to 5% commission if they want. So don't blame the MLM model for this. Blame business relationships in general.

Re's
Rob Whisonant

All business is a pyramid. You have the boss, then the managers, then the workers. That's a pyramid.

Even a single person business is a pyramid. You have the proprietor, support services, outsourcing, affiliates. Same pyramid structure.

I'm not sure of any business that would not fall under the pyramid structure. You have to have a pyramid structure for a business to work. Just try having a lateral or other structure and you lose total control of your business.

Yes I know I am stretching it a bit. Just trying to show a different view point. Pyramid structured business is good business.

Re's
Rob Whisonant

Its a shame that some fool said that. Not just because MLM far pre-dates 'Internet marketing' whatever the definition of that might be, but because the internet makes the whole process of teambuilding and training so much easier.

Back in the late 80s and early 90s when I was active in this sector we gave out and posted video and audio cassettes, spent hours driving up & down the country running trainings and events. I was not uncommon to be in a hotel meeting room 5 nights/days of the week. With e-mail, skype, webinars, online video as communication methods I am sure it is far easier to build, train and maintain a team now than ever before.

Hey Thanks

I have a friend who is in a new phone/credit card type network marketing deal. Solid product. Seems fully legit and backed by super well known business people (billionaires are involved in it).

My friend is the office admin to the 'affiliate' program director. And the thing that drives be batty is all the RaRa and daily phone calls/webinars. It's all so hypey, I just had to back off...

IMO, the NM/MLM space is designed for the type of personality that relishes the whole team building thing. Perhaps it's a good alternative and fit for people coming out of the traditional structured corporate world?
-- (I never did fit in too well...!)

- For my taste these things only really work if you are one of the program originators - And then you hire someone to run the actual program!

Just a suggestion, Embrown, but living in the US, you might want to be very careful how and in front of whom you use that term to describe your business. Regulators and courts are strict about this whole business of using other terms to describe multi-level marketing. If the company of which you're a distributor is registered and regulated as a multi-level marketing company, then I believe "MLM" is the term you have to use, to describe the business opportunity to potentially interested parties?

There are companies like "Melaleuca" whose distributors sometimes skirt around regulatory/legal accidents by describing it as "consumer direct marketing" (or some expression like that) in an attempt specifically to avoid using the expression "MLM", but the company's own compliance department doesn't recommend that, and it's taking a real chance. I've even seen them saying openly that "it isn't MLM", which is clearly not right (I think those are probably just very naive newbies, before they learn better!).

"Just saying".

Well, Meg... I've been doing it since the early 70s and I feel
just great about it! Of course, I've never done what you described
and have met relatively few people who have. I think maybe you
don't really know that much about it...

I participated in MLM previously selling beauty & health products. Unfortunately I didn't made it but all my up lines who started around the same time as me made it really big. I still believe that you can make a lot of money from MLM if you are persist.

Great source you have there. You may want to educate yourself first before saying the only ones on the top make money. Sounds very ignorant

Most of them, of course, aren't expecting or trying to, either. So it's hardly a "99% failure".

The same is also true of internet marketing, by the way. And probably many other forms of self-employment.

This is just prejudiced nonsense.

I myself did it for a year, when I was 18, and made money from it.

Everyone "joins" an MLM in the same position. Their incomes depend on what happens "below" them, not "above" them. Many of the highest-earning distributors in some of the world's longest-established MLM companies are people who've joined in recent years. Nobody earns more from their businesses than they do.

Got any other opinionated nonsense you want refuted?

MLM is just bullsh*t. It will cost you more than you make. See #73.

I'm in a very new NM company and I am already making around $1200/mo residuals.. by summer I expect to be making around 8k a month at least. I don't normally get involved in these but this one had a product and comp plan that I could stand behind.

Rock on.

Thanks for the entertainment. That is, perhaps, the silliest anti-MLM post
ever offered on this forum... and that's saying a lot... LOL

I'm not a fan of MLM, but this has to be one of the silliest posts I've ever read on this forum. Slaves of the past never "loved to follow their masters for a small ransom of food"; the definition of slavery is forced labor; not people who sell themselves for large amounts of food.

Obviously, they had to be fed to maintain the workforce, but not a "ransom of food"; this implies that slaves must have been idiots incapable of feeding themselves, therefore willing to give up their freedom and homes for food; absurd suggestion. You perhaps hold a world record for the most laughable misuse ever, of the word "ransom".

And your tortured metaphor is otherwise clearly nonsense, because the definition of slavery is forced labor. You are calling people dumb for joining, but slaves were never taken because they were dumb, and got talked into it, even though it was a bad deal for them; they were taken by force.

It has always struck me as odd how often you see people insulting others, while demonstrating the very characteristic they are trying to smear their targets with.

If I were you, I'd avoid using the word "dumb" in future posts.

I hear ya.

That is why I decided to out source the building of the MLM company I am with.

That way I don't have to cold call, network or any of the other negatives associated with building an MLM business.

The strategy is definitely working for me.

It's hard if the company doesn't provide you with the tools at your back office . I was with Efusjon in 2009 and all the marketings tools were there : website ,one click post on the facebook etc . Product was great ......

Man... I wish I had known all this before I paid a buttload of taxes
on my not a business these past many years. Crap... just when I
thought I was a serious entrepreneur the final judge and arbiter of
all that is entrepreneurial has decided I'm not.

Save me from myself... I'm begging you!

My experience with MLM has been people that are salesmen suck at it. MLM is a completely different marketing channel. I personally find if someone joins my downline and follow my instructions to the "T" they do great. But when a salesman joins they usually think their way of selling is best and end up quitting and saying MLM is bull.

Now a salesman that CAN totally and completely forget what they have learned about selling and CAN follow instructions does fine with MLM.

MLM is about sharing, not selling. MLM products are sold by becoming a product of the product. You "share" your experiences with a product the same way you share information about a great restaurant you found or a great movie you watched.

Now if you forget about the network marketing approach MLM follows, a salesman could do fine "selling" products just like the old vacuum salesman did.

You may personally be seeing different results with salesman. But I sure have not in my many years of experience with MLM.

Re's
Rob Whisonant

Hey Dan,

I changed my mind and decided not to post my thoughts on EN!

Nice blog BTW

I've heard that in any MLM company about 3% of the people in it do extremely well. About 90% give up any particular company within a year.

I know one of the 3% guys. He has a hide as thick as a turtle shell. He would be in the top 3 % of any company. He is only interested in the business, not the product. If the people under him lose money, he doesn't care. I'm not saying they are all like that but I couldn't do it.

There is so much information on the internet about companies, owners, complaints, etc. that it is easy to find what flaws companies have.

It amazes me that so many people do not bother to research where they are putting their money and time.

Also I've found that it is difficult to have a strictly unique MLM product that won't soon have something similar that is priced better in stores.

They may claim that they save on advertising costs. But when they are paying out seven levels that it is a lot of product cost. (If you don't have any levels, guess who makes all that extra profit).

If selling and recruiting are your thing - go for it.

Me, no thanks.

That's an interesting statement. How is it a zero sum game?
That claim generally means someone must lose in order for
someone to win. Please explain how that applies to a legitimate
MLM.

That certainly has never been my experience.

Really? So that's the case with huge company's like Mary Kay and Avon lol?

This is also true of people under the "internet marketing" umbrella, wall street firms, banks, doctors, lawyers, etc.

Granted that some over-zealous mlmers (and companies) have given the industry a black-eye, but that can be said about nearly anything else.

Then again, I see a ton of irrational stuff in this forum every time I log in here. Take a look at any autoresponder thread and roughly 1 to 2% of what's in those threads contain the truth.

Jump over to the SEO forum and you'll see irrational stuff in there all the time. It reminds me of people who agrue over what's better, a PC or an Apple computer? Or paid advertising versus SEO (or versus social networking), etc.

People have irrational opinions all the time. Darn, I have quite a few of them myself. Part of it is marketer's bias and part of it is people reguritating what they've read elsewhere and some parts of it is bad experience. I know plenty of people who hate mlm / network marketing/ relationship marketing / whatever you call it / simply because they attended ONE presentation and it turned them off.

Ok, that's going to happen. But that's a symptom of a bigger issue; one could argue that most people quit nearly anything that seems like it's going to involve too much work.

A true, professional network marketer is going to run their business like a business. They aren't going to hassle their "warm market" (they don't need to) and they're going to have an effective, strategy which will involved using many time-tested marketing principles (such as building their own list).

I can understand some people's sentiments, but I still contend that people who don't do any or very little research and just dislike mlm because of preconceived notions or something they've read from someone else is irrational.

Then again, we see it every day in this forum.

RoD

I'm glad you brought this up. I onced dated a very successful Mary Kay representative. She worked her ass off for many years, but ultimately got to a point where she could quit her job and stay at home with her family.

It was a tough, hard road for her, but she treated it like a real business. And as she built her business she beefed up her skill set such as her sale's skills, online marketing funnels, how to get targeted traffic, attend networking events, reached out to her local community, etc.

Most people FAIL at ANY business because it's NOT easy. It's not unique to mlm, it's not unique to internet marketing, it's not unique to any of IM's subsets (like affiliate marketing), etc. It takes hard work, street smarts, and a certain perservance to make it in any business.

RoD

I'm on your side of that discussion, in general, and I agree with all the rest of your post. But "none" is a slight exaggeration, here. (Some aspects of it actually have a fairly unambiguously proven underlying basis in behavioral psychology. "Just saying" ).

I agree in the sense that if you think it's bullshit, it's not going to work for you.

I also agree that there is a lot of stuff out there that is oversimplified or written by people trying to make money from the popularity of a phenomenon that they know nothing about.

On the other side of the coin, I read Think and Grow Rich in the mid 90's, used some of the "law of attraction" stuff in the book, and it produced results that I specifically attribute to doing those exercises.

Napoleon Hill goes well beyond just LOA. He is also the one that says if your plan doesn't work, scrap it. When Hill teamed up with C.W. Stone they placed an emphasis on having a 'success system' that never fails. That goes well beyond wishful thinking. They both knew you had to sell something to someone too.