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Does this hack you off (or not)?

by GarryMSayer
18 replies
I was having a Skype chat with a friend the other day and the subject of email marketing and listbuilding came up.

My friend automatically adds customers to their mailing list after purchase using JVZoo's automatic integration, whereas for years in other niches and the IM niche, I tend to use a squeeze page offering a compelling free gift, free product upgrades etc in exchange for my (new) customer's email address. For those who don't wish to optin there is a clickable link at the bottom that takes them to a OTO or a download page.

NOTE : I did use JVZoo's automatic subscribers integration for a launch last weekend as a test but noticed only half of my customers have subscribed!?

I want people to "want" to be on my list. My friend thinks people "accept" they're going on a vendor's list after purchasing a product.

So here's a few questions for y'all :

1. Would you prefer to be given the choice of opting into a marketers mailing list after purchase or are you happy being automatically added?

2. If you are automatically added do you look to unsubscribe straight away or give the marketer the benefit of the doubt?

3. If you willingly optin to a list to get a free gift after purchase, do you then have a tendancy to opt out straight away once you have downloaded the gift or give the marketer the benefit of the doubt?

4. In both cases do you have more respect, and likely look out for future emails, for the marketer who automatically added you to their list or the marketer that "compelled" you to optin to their list?

5. Do you not give a damn either way?

Looking forward to your feedback.

Garry.
#listbuilding #questions #quick #warriors
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I don't care either way. I rarely sign up for a list to get something for free, and I rarely stay on a list because I bought something. I'm very selective about lists I stay on and there's only a few of them.

    In most cases when I buy something, I'll automatically get a please confirm your subscription link via email and just delete it.

    I'm not interested in people sending me affiliate promotions and that is exactly what most list owners do when they've got you on their list.
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanmilligan
    Banned
    Number 5... lol

    Seriously though, I have to kind of agree with your friend, most people in the IM niche would just accept it at least.

    Personally, my first email in my auto-responder always tells the people exactly what they will receive in the next 20 emails from me and a little note telling them how to unsubscribe if they don't want to learn/receive any of that - that way it's there choice if they want what I have to give.
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  • Profile picture of the author JoeyXoto
    1. Would you prefer to be given the choice of opting into a marketers mailing list after purchase or are you happy being automatically added?

    I think i would prefer a choice; but if I am added automatically I would accept it as I have brought a product from them. So I would kind of expect some marketing, and occasionally am happy to anticipate it from certain people.

    2. If you are automatically added do you look to unsubscribe straight away or give the marketer the benefit of the doubt?

    90% of the time, give them the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes theres some good offers. I always welcome good content and quality offers.

    3. If you willingly optin to a list to get a free gift after purchase, do you then have a tendancy to opt out straight away once you have downloaded the gift or give the marketer the benefit of the doubt?

    I've never opted out of a list straight away. I have opted out after 3/4 emails if the content sucks. Especially when I'm being sold 7 products every day of the week. That is poor marketing.

    4. In both cases do you have more respect, and likely look out for future emails, for the marketer who automatically added you to their list or the marketer that "compelled" you to optin to their list?

    Not more respect, but as I said I am still interested to see what they can offer.

    5. Do you not give a damn either way?

    Not really Just give me good content, or I'll opt out.
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  • Profile picture of the author gcbmark20
    Hi Garry,

    I have been on that many lists in the past I am completely numb to it I suppose.

    As for using that idea yourself, I suppose to anyone wondering whether to use it or not, you would just have to do some good old testing on it to find what results you get.

    The thing is though that if someone has just purchased something from you; they should be willing to trust you enough for them to be on your email list shouldn't they?

    I suppose it depends what niche you're in along with many other factors.

    Good question Garry and all the best with your future efforts my friend!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Becker
    I'm happy to be added automatically, if I don't want on the list for updates, I just don't confirm the optin.

    In fact I think I prefer that rather than have to fill out a form, though a form is nice in case I want to use an address different than my PayPal address (for product updates).

    I rarely download free gifts, they don't impress me at all and are just a deterrent to focusing on the product I purchased.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      I'd rather have the option - that way I can choose which email address to give.

      Automatic sign-ups are irritating because I like to keep my PayPal address free from sales messages and product updates.
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  • Profile picture of the author JabMonkey
    I study as many marketer's email tactics as I can, and I try to get on as many lists as I can because of that, so it's convenient for me if they just auto-add me.

    But leaving my personal preference out of this (rare, I know), it's a fact that roughly 70% of your customers now will also be your future customers; so it's good to get them on your list however you can.

    They can always opt out if they are offended by this auto-add travesty, whereby the cyber gods dump a big bucket of crap on their heads for the thrill of it all , but most won't.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
      My experience has been this... let's say you have a free product, which you want to use to build your list, so that you can eventually upsell your subscribers on one or more of your paid products.

      Option A - In order to get the free product, these subscribers MUST opt-in to your list (and confirm) first.

      Option B - You give them the free product straight away, and make the opt-in completely optional (but still use compelling copy, such as "Like our free product? Wait until you see what we have in store next! Sign up to our VIP list to be the first to hear about it, and to get a BIG discount as soon as it becomes available").

      In my tests, you will get more subscribers with option A (at least temporarily). But you will make more money with option B.

      Because with option B, everyone is on your list because they WANT to be. And THAT is what you want. Not to mention... your complaint rates and bounce rates will be lower (In the 5 years I've been with Aweber, I've never even gotten close to their complaint rate "limit" when using option B, but I've gone a "little" over on a handful of occasions when using option A).

      Also, another very good reason to use option B is that when you send out an email blast to your paid product, you will have a FAR higher conversion rate than when sending the same blast out to the "option A" list. And the better your conversion rate is, the more affiliates you will attract.

      That is just my personal observation though, so your results may vary. But I'd suspect that most others who have tested this will have similar results.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Lenaghan
    Originally Posted by GarryMSayer View Post

    1. Would you prefer to be given the choice of opting into a marketers mailing list after purchase or are you happy being automatically added?
    Makes no difference to me. I usually add myself anyway so I can see what they do after the sale. Getting added automatically just saves me a step.

    Originally Posted by GarryMSayer View Post

    2. If you are automatically added do you look to unsubscribe straight away or give the marketer the benefit of the doubt?
    Benefit of the doubt. A few marketers have sent surprisingly valuable follow-ups that I would have missed if I hadn't been signed up for their list. Including a couple that I've wound up chatting with and have promoted my offers.

    And it can be interesting to see how other people handle the follow-ups, in both good and bad cases.

    Originally Posted by GarryMSayer View Post

    3. If you willingly optin to a list to get a free gift after purchase, do you then have a tendancy to opt out straight away once you have downloaded the gift or give the marketer the benefit of the doubt?
    The free gift wouldn't be my incentive in most cases anyway, so this wouldn't really have a bearing on it for me.

    Originally Posted by GarryMSayer View Post

    4. In both cases do you have more respect, and likely look out for future emails, for the marketer who automatically added you to their list or the marketer that "compelled" you to optin to their list?
    I'm more likely to look out for future emails from someone who offers real value in the first 2 or 3 follow ups. It doesn't matter much how they got me on the list after buying.

    If those first couple of follow-ups are junk, I generally either unsubscribe or if I'm being lazy, just keep getting them and deleting them until my next email purge.

    Originally Posted by GarryMSayer View Post

    5. Do you not give a damn either way?
    Yes. I should have read question 5 before the rest - could have saved myself some typing

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author zapseo
    #5.

    (That's all I really wanted to say, but that's too short of a message for the WF...)
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  • Profile picture of the author domain2day
    Either way I usually opt-in to study the emails and product offers I receive. I usually remain on the email list if the sender offers good advice and information. Often times I unsubscribe, though, when I feel like the emails are not providing anything useful for me. It's just "hey check this out" affiliate links, then I unsubscribe because I get plenty of those emails and most people are promoting either the same thing (new product launch) or similar services/products.
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  • Profile picture of the author GarryMSayer
    Some really interesting replies so far, keep 'em coming folks.

    The consensus so far seems to suggest people expect to get added to a marketers mailing list when purchasing a product from them. However some would like to fill out a form/squeeze page so they can choose which email address receives future emails - this is actually another reason why I've always set up squeeze pages in the past. I've read several times that people infrequently check their PayPal email address.

    Irrespective of how subscribers were added to a vendors list we don't want to be continually pitched to, we want content that gives us value. However some of us stay on marketers lists for the purpose of learning their email marketing techniques etc.

    It's also advisable to tell your new subscriber what they can expect from being on your list. I think that's a great way of introducing yourself to them by making your intentions perfectly clear. Just gotta make sure you stick to them.

    What is also very interesting is some marketers put little value on stuff that is free.

    Brandon you also make a great point about how to get people on your list because they "want to" and build a list of subscribers (not great in number), who are potentially more responsive. The example you use is for a free entry point in your funnel, but I've done variations of this technique on some of my niche download pages for paid products.

    Awesome comments.

    Garry.
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  • Profile picture of the author PatrickBrianONeill
    Originally Posted by GarryMSayer View Post


    1. Would you prefer to be given the choice of opting into a marketers mailing list after purchase or are you happy being automatically added?

    2. If you are automatically added do you look to unsubscribe straight away or give the marketer the benefit of the doubt?

    3. If you willingly optin to a list to get a free gift after purchase, do you then have a tendancy to opt out straight away once you have downloaded the gift or give the marketer the benefit of the doubt?

    4. In both cases do you have more respect, and likely look out for future emails, for the marketer who automatically added you to their list or the marketer that "compelled" you to optin to their list?
    #1 - I STRONGLY prefer to be given the choice of opting into a marketer's mailing list after purchase.

    #2 - When I am automatically added I unsub asap. I don't care how good their rep is, or if they seem solid. If they were "the goods" they would not have to resort to such gray areas to build their list.

    #3 and #4 - If I willingly opt in to a list to get a free gift, I give the marketer the benefit of the doubt, and I can't wait to get emails to check him/her out. And I do not desire to ever hear from the auto-adder.

    Thanks for bringing up this discussion, Garry.

    Patrick
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    • Profile picture of the author GarryMSayer
      Originally Posted by CoolAromas View Post

      #1 - I STRONGLY prefer to be given the choice of opting into a marketer's mailing list after purchase.

      #2 - When I am automatically added I unsub asap. I don't care how good their rep is, or if they seem solid. If they were "the goods" they would not have to resort to such gray areas to build their list.

      #3 and #4 - If I willingly opt in to a list to get a free gift, I give the marketer the benefit of the doubt, and I can't wait to get emails to check him/her out. And I do not desire to ever hear from the auto-adder.

      Thanks for bringing up this discussion, Garry.

      Patrick
      That's pretty much how I feel, Patrick. However it appears we're in the minority.

      If it's a marketer I've purchased something from previously, I "generally" don't so much mind the auto-add - especially if I'm happy with the way they go about their email marketing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by GarryMSayer View Post

    1. Would you prefer to be given the choice of opting into a marketers mailing list after purchase or are you happy being automatically added?
    I don't really care, much.

    I suppose, given a choice, I'd rather be asked, but I recognize that they have the right to add me automatically and I don't mind that.

    Originally Posted by GarryMSayer View Post

    2. If you are automatically added do you look to unsubscribe straight away or give the marketer the benefit of the doubt?
    What doubt? I don't feel any doubt. They're allowed to add me automatically. There's no problem there.

    It's just like any other list, as far as I'm concerned. If they send me stuff I don't like receiving, I'll unsubscribe.

    Originally Posted by GarryMSayer View Post

    3. If you willingly optin to a list to get a free gift after purchase, do you then have a tendancy to opt out straight away once you have downloaded the gift or give the marketer the benefit of the doubt?
    The same as above.

    Originally Posted by GarryMSayer View Post

    4. In both cases do you have more respect, and likely look out for future emails, for the marketer who automatically added you to their list or the marketer that "compelled" you to optin to their list?
    Whoa ... hold on a minute: where did "compelled" creep into it?!

    A marketer must not let me pay for a product and only then tell me that I "have" to opt in, in order to get delivery of the product. That's "compelled" (and it's idiotic).

    That's changing the terms of the contract of sale after payment! :p

    As a vendor, you have to do that once (and get a substantiated complaint about it) for PayPal to close down your account immediately. And they're right, because that's changing the terms of the contract of sale after payment. Who wants to do business with people who do that?! PayPal doesn't, and neither do I.

    Discussed in quite some detail in this thread: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post6910329
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    • Profile picture of the author GarryMSayer
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Whoa ... hold on a minute: where did "compelled" creep into it?!

      A marketer must not let me pay for a product and only then tell me that I "have" to opt in, in order to get delivery of the product. That's "compelled" (and it's idiotic).

      That's changing the terms of the contract of sale after payment! :p

      As a vendor, you have to do that once (and get a substantiated complaint about it) for PayPal to close down your account immediately. And they're right, because that's changing the terms of the contract of sale after payment. Who wants to do business like that?!

      Discussed in quite some detail in this thread: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post6910329
      Maybe I didn't word this correctly enough because that's NOT what I meant. I'm not talking about being forced to submit an email address to receive a product you've just purchased, I'm talking about creating an "additional" compelling incentive to get someone on your list AFTER they've purchased from you.

      I'm fully aware of PayPal's stance on forced optins.

      Let me revisit the initial question to see how you came to that conclusion...

      And the answer is I'm not really sure.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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        Originally Posted by GarryMSayer View Post

        Maybe I didn't word this correctly enough because that's NOT what I meant.
        Sorry, Garry. I took "compelled" the wrong way.

        I did wonder why I was the first in the thread to be making this point! My mistake - apologies.

        Originally Posted by GarryMSayer View Post

        I'm talking about creating an "additional" compelling incentive to get someone on your list AFTER they've purchased from you.
        Got it.

        I have no problem with that, at all. Either way.

        (For the record, I don't even mind them forcing me to opt in to get delivery, as long as they tell me that before I pay, so that I have the choice of whether or not I want to do business with them on that basis. And it wouldn't actually put me off, because I'll respect them for being up-front and honest about it.)
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  • Profile picture of the author GarryMSayer
    Hey... no problem, Alexa.

    Glad we got that sorted out, all those emoticons were making me feel quite uneasy.

    Thanks for your feedback!
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