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Why such low prices for WSOs

by Claude Whitacre
71 replies
This is a real question. I spend a lot of time at seminars (sometimes teaching, sometimes as an attendant-prospecting)

Most people have an information product to sell. Usually it's between $500 and $5,000. You know, CDs, a manual or two, a few DVDS. VIOLA! $2,000 product.

I've bought a few near worthless WSOs here. But most are real courses that I would expect to buy for between $1,000-$3,000. Even most of the reports would sell for $300 or more if they were also read onto a CD.

I read posts where people are asking for a "review copy" when the product is $5.
And read posts where a $5 book on Amazon needs more proof that it is the magic pill, before someone will plop down a few dollars.

What is the difference here on this forum?
Is it;
People here are just used to getting something for close to nothing.
Since the products are digital, they just sell for far less.
Most people on this forum are not making any money, and that's the real reason (I'm not trying to be mean here)
It's simply a crowd that isn't used to spending money.
After a few years, it's a matter of price conditioning.

Or, is it that there really is wealth made here that I can't see in huge volume and back end sales?

For example, I bought a WSO for (I think) $27 with nearly 8 hours of video, every document you could think of, software that should have been $500 by itself, and quick answering of customer questions. I was astounded that it wasn't $2,000 from one of the better know Gurus.

I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm serious here. I'm not setting up a WSO myself. I'm nobody's affiliate. Hasn't this question been raised before?

Is offering a product on a forum simply that much different than in a group presentation? That may be the answer, and I'm just not seeing it.
#low #prices #wsos
  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    People here are desperate and they're selling mostly to struggling beginners who have no money and don't value anything at more than $37
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    • Profile picture of the author Thomas Michal
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        I agree with Andy's comment above, and offer the additional observation that over the last 2 - 3 years, the WSO sellers have collectively trained their market "only to buy cheap stuff". (Often, I suspect, under the guise of "Wanting to give fellow-Warriors the best possible prices." )

        They probably think it's because that's what people want to buy.

        It's not a million miles away from the old argument about whether newspapers are full of crap, nonsense and glamour models because that's what sells newspapers or whether that's what sells newspapers because that's what newspaper proprietors have increasingly made available over the last few decades.
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        • Profile picture of the author smallbusinesstoolkit
          I think some people selling their WSOs jut starting their adventure with IM , so selling cheap products is just the way to put the foot in the door.
          This forum has quite a good amount of targeted traffic and you can also test a lot of things.
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          • Profile picture of the author PatrickBrianONeill
            Originally Posted by smallbusinesstoolkit View Post

            I think some people selling their WSOs jut starting their adventure with IM , so selling cheap products is just the way to put the foot in the door.
            This forum has quite a good amount of targeted traffic and you can also test a lot of things.
            While I definitely agree with Andy and Alexa, I am glad you brought this point up.

            WSOs may be the lowest cost split testing tool available while still marketing to a qualified customer base.

            And if your efforts fade like a fart in a whirlwind, you have risked nearly nothing.

            Patrick
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  • Profile picture of the author Dr MaxIM
    I actually was thinking the same, but there are people claiming here that they are making a living from this forum alone. So, probably volumes are good here.
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    • Profile picture of the author JJacobs Investments
      From my experience, when selling to a group compared to selling online it is really comparing apples and oranges. Well kind of. When I'm doing live presentations on products I want to sell, I have to incorporate the following variables into the price of the product:

      1. Travel time for presentations
      2. Travel cost
      3. Marketing costs
      5. Miscellaneous
      6. etc etc

      Ok, now for selling on the internet. I'm in the comfort of my own surrounding - that eliminates travel time/costs. I'm doing my own marketing or I'll be outsourcing it. However, the degree of marketing is no where near the same as compared to doing it live. What overhead do I have on my agenda?

      Some of my single product, can cost an upwards of atleast $1,000 as you've mentioned in your post. It takes X number of sales to finally see a profit, due to the above mentioned variables. Sure, I can sell this same product for $37.99 and make my money based on volume - but how long until profits will be seen?

      Now, lets take that same product and put it for sale on cyberspace. I would be happy to see 5% of sales, of selling the same product at a price of $999. Keep in mind, you as a consumer, don't get to physically see the product, ask me questions, see other questions raised by potential buyers, etc. Are you really going to purchase a product at that monetary value that you can't even pick up and quickly scan for a few pages?

      A few online "reviews" don't justify the pricing for selling a product which I generally sell to group clients compared to online.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
        It's a different marketplace. I sell low priced products online because I can offer some value at a price that many can afford. But in my funnel (I really hate that word, but I don't know what else to use) I have higher priced products and in my education line, I have a live intensive weekend.

        Here I do see some excellent products at really low products and some really abysmal ones. I do think people have been trained to expect really low prices, with the expectation that additional products will be offered at a substantially higher price.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    What she said ^^

    It's now a low-budget pile em high $1 shop. The price has nothing to do with the value and it's based on "say whatever you need to in order to get a sale" and since everyone is using the same hype - it's just a mass of over-hyped and confusing mess where you have no idea from what you see what you're gonna get.
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    Low/no overhead compared to a live presentation. An audience of thousands instead of a hundred or so. Etc.

    George Wright
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    • Profile picture of the author Indecision
      Put it this way, you get what you pay for. Most people selling WSO's have no experience or education in marketing, programming, etc. outside of IM forums.
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      • Profile picture of the author JJacobs Investments
        Originally Posted by Indecision View Post

        Put it this way, you get what you pay for. Most people selling WSO's have no experience or education in marketing, programming, etc. outside of IM forums.
        This is up for debate. Just because a product is being sold for a less amount, doesn't necessarily correlate with the quality of the product.

        I've seen people write-up ORIGINAL information, marked at a price of $19.99. The information was genuine, succinct, and lastly educational.
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        • Profile picture of the author Indecision
          Originally Posted by JJacobs Investments View Post

          This is up for debate. Just because a product is being sold for a less amount, doesn't necessarily correlate with the quality of the product.

          I've seen people write-up ORIGINAL information, marked at a price of $19.99. The information was genuine, succinct, and lastly educational.
          Oh don't get me wrong I know there is some great information from people that know what they are talking about. However I think it would be a very safe bet to assume that the majority of people selling WSOs haven't made a great amount of money online outside of the WSO/IM niche. It's just a vicious circle, "can't make money online, then make money online by telling other people how to make money online!"
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          • Profile picture of the author JJacobs Investments
            Originally Posted by Indecision View Post

            Oh don't get me wrong I know there is some great information from people that know what they are talking about. However I think it would be a very safe bet to assume that the majority of people selling WSOs haven't made a great amount of money online outside of the WSO/IM niche. It's just a vicious circle, "can't make money online, then make money online by telling other people how to make money online!"
            The last sentence cracked me up. It's unfortunate, but that's what it has come down to. Wonder when the system will crack down on those people who are preying on the unfortunate.
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          • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
            Banned
            For example, I bought a WSO for (I think) $27 with nearly 8 hours of video, every document you could think of, software that should have been $500 by itself, and quick answering of customer questions. I was astounded that it wasn't $2,000 from one of the better know Gurus.
            That raises another interesting question....who are the real dummies here, the people selling a $2,000 quality product for only $27, or those paying $2,000 for something they could get for $27?
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            • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
              Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

              That raises another interesting question....who are the real dummies here, the people selling a $2,000 quality product for only $27, or those paying $2,000 for something they could get for $27?
              I see you are trying to be ironicalistic. (I just made that word up)

              No. I go to lots of seminars. I pay for advice. I charge for advice. I know the market. $2,000 is a tad higher than average for a complete marketing package. Maybe $1,700 is the average, if you averaged every information course on some form of marketing. I charge $3,999 for a marketing service. And I get it regularly. From smart people. I wouldn't offer it for less.

              It's the $37 that's the anomaly. I've seen similar things on other forums. Mostly people complaining that they have to pay $10 for a book, when they can get it free in digital form. But these people are never...never the people actually succeeding in business.

              Who are the dummies? People who laugh at other people doing smart things.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                I charge $3,999 for a marketing service. And I get it regularly. From smart people. I wouldn't offer it for less.

                It's the $37 that's the anomaly. I've seen similar things on other forums. Mostly people complaining that they have to pay $10 for a book, when they can get it free in digital form. But these people are never...never the people actually succeeding in business.

                Who are the dummies? People who laugh at other people doing smart things.
                So, why is your Amazon book only $20 bucks? With pearls of wisdom in it from a $4K consultant, I would expect to pay much, much more
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                • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  So, why is your Amazon book only $20 bucks? With pearls of wisdom in it from a $4K consultant, I would expect to pay much, much more
                  I know the answer. Here it is...
                  The purpose of a business book is to demonstraste expertise. It's a calling card. It's part of a PR package. A book is a brochure for your services.

                  Did you know that the average business book, that makes it to a major publisher...sells less than 5,000 copies? And the author makes less than $5,000 total? Most make way less. So why do it? Because the book is simply a "gateway product". It isn't the whole picture. VERY few business authors make a good living selling their books (a few sell collections of self published books and make a living).

                  The money is in what comes after the book is bought. Speaking engagements, consulting, Seminars. The book is a long form sales letter for other services. It's an introduction. A taste of things to come.

                  My book? It's a business card that gets me interviews. It helps get me speaking engagements. And it helps set up huge sales of my services. It supports the idea that I'm an expert.
                  The truth is, I put the cover price at $19.95 and was going to sell it on Amazon for $12.95. After I had the book printed, I found that Amazon won't give discounts off the cover price except in special promotions (like a pre-publication sale). And 19.95 for a 120 page paperback is a lot.

                  The book may eventually make me $5,000. But it has paved the way for far bigger paydays.

                  I haven't even seen a new business book written in the last 20 years, that didn't have a promotional purpose.

                  A book is a taste. The informational product is a complete meal. I have an information product that I wrote just before the book. It gives far more information. The manuals, DVDs, and CDs weigh 13 pounds. The book was a very abreviated version of the course. The course I sell (not here) for $695. I used to sell it for $1,495 at seminars, but now I sell a different thing, a service.

                  And my $3,999 service is impossible to put in book form. It's a service. I do all the work. I can't even make it an information product (not one anyone would impliment anyway).

                  And here is a marketing trick. A 240 page paperback book almost never sells for more than $24.95 on Amazon or in bookstores. Put the same content in a three ring binder, call it a manual...and suddenly that price expectation goes out the door. Now it can fetch $300 if sold with a good sales letter. Wierd stuff.
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                  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
                    This pretty much describes many WSOs
                    And answers your first question.

                    George Wright

                    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                    I know the answer. Here it is...
                    The purpose of a business book is to demonstraste expertise. It's a calling card. It's part of a PR package. A book is a brochure for your services.

                    Did you know that the average business book, that makes it to a major publisher...sells less than 5,000 copies? And the author makes less than $5,000 total? Most make way less. So why do it? Because the book is simply a "gateway product". It isn't the whole picture. VERY few business authors make a good living selling their books (a few sell collections of self published books and make a living).

                    The money is in what comes after the book is bought. Speaking engagements, consulting, Seminars. The book is a long form sales letter for other services. It's an introduction. A taste of things to come.

                    My book? It's a business card that gets me interviews. It helps get me speaking engagements. And it helps set up huge sales of my services. It supports the idea that I'm an expert.
                    The truth is, I put the cover price at $19.95 and was going to sell it on Amazon for $12.95. After I had the book printed, I found that Amazon won't give discounts off the cover price except in special promotions (like a pre-publication sale). And 19.95 for a 120 page paperback is a lot.

                    The book may eventually make me $5,000. But it has paved the way for far bigger paydays.

                    I haven't even seen a new business book written in the last 20 years, that didn't have a promotional purpose.

                    A book is a taste. The informational product is a complete meal. I have an information product that I wrote just before the book. It gives far more information. The manuals, DVDs, and CDs weigh 13 pounds. The book was a very abreviated version of the course. The course I sell (not here) for $695. I used to sell it for $1,495 at seminars, but now I sell a different thing, a service.

                    And my $3,999 service is impossible to put in book form. It's a service. I do all the work. I can't even make it an information product (not one anyone would impliment anyway).

                    And here is a marketing trick. A 240 page paperback book almost never sells for more than $24.95 on Amazon or in bookstores. Put the same content in a three ring binder, call it a manual...and suddenly that price expectation goes out the door. Not it can fetch $300 if sold with a good sales letter. Wierd stuff.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

                      This pretty much describes many WSOs
                      And answers your first question.

                      George Wright
                      George; That's what I would have thought. But of all the "Report" WSOs I've bought, none have had a real agenda to upsell. I keep getting e-mails for affiliate products...but nothing about consulting or further advanced information packages. The upsells offered after you buy are still very inexpensive. I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just not used to it when I look at information products outside of this forum. I've received some good information about the "Why's" here. I just wasn't used to it.
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                • Profile picture of the author smallbusinesstoolkit
                  Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                  So, why is your Amazon book only $20 bucks? With pearls of wisdom in it from a $4K consultant, I would expect to pay much, much more
                  It is a question of targeting the right group of customer.
                  Let`s say you are famous chef, so how you can make money :
                  - release free ebook with a few recipes for freebie seekers
                  - release $9 ebook about cooking
                  - release $15 book on amazon about cooking
                  - release $99 dvd cooking courses
                  - organize $999 2 day live cooking courses
                  - sell $100000 restaurant franchise
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              • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
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                Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

                I see you are trying to be ironicalistic. (I just made that word up)

                No. I go to lots of seminars. I pay for advice. I charge for advice. I know the market. $2,000 is a tad higher than average for a complete marketing package. Maybe $1,700 is the average, if you averaged every information course on some form of marketing. I charge $3,999 for a marketing service. And I get it regularly. From smart people. I wouldn't offer it for less.
                That's great.....but just because you aren't offering it for less doesn't mean someone else isn't. If you can convince people to give you $2,000 for info they could probably pick up at Barnes and Nobles for $20 bucks, more power to you. Doesn't bother me at all. Not sure why that makes those who pay it smart people though, lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author laurenceh
    I do agree Andy but just to give another angle on this, lets not forget some people sell low priced wso's to fill their list with buyers they then sell higher priced products to.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by laurenceh View Post

      I do agree Andy but just to give another angle on this, lets not forget some people sell low priced wso's to fill their list with buyers they then sell higher priced products to.
      That occurred to me. Using WSOs to create a list. I know I get a ton of e-mails from buying WSOs. And even a $10 buyer is far better than a "get a free report" customer.

      Also I see the value in getting lots of testimonials (no matter what the price)

      Interesting discussion.

      Don't get me wrong, I'm very glad I'm spending $17 instead of $500. But it feels strange to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    And there's the mass of people telling others "you don't know what you're doing - no problem make a WSO it's easy money" so they make 'something', 'anything' to sell.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
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      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      And there's the mass of people telling others "you don't know what you're doing - no problem make a WSO it's easy money" so they make 'something', 'anything' to sell.
      This. The "What to do if You're Desperate" Thread has the advice in posts 12, 79, 85, 310, 336, 398, 402, 427, 442, 508, 579, 580, 614, 651, 654, and 732 for example.

      Then there are WSO Courses on How to Sell WSO's (sometimes under the title of Product Creation Courses, but there seems to be a consensus that newbies try just about anything with IM first so let's count those):

      http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...offer+creation
      http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...offer+creation
      http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...offer+creation
      http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...offer+creation
      http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...4-success.html

      I'll stop there, but it's the tip of a pretty freaking large iceberg. The point that I'm trying to get at? Too many people sold the WSO section as a business in itself instead of what it was intended to be: a place for Warriors to give each other great deals on their products. These newbies often created inferior products, and knew that the only way that they were competing with the real product sellers was to win on price. Everyone kept undercutting everyone else, and eventually the regular WSO posters had to go along just to keep selling on the subforum. And that's how we found ourselves here.

      You see it with writing too, and that's how the .000001 per word market was born on here.
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
        Originally Posted by Joseph Robinson View Post

        This. The "What to do if You're Desperate" Thread has the advice in posts 12, 79, 85, 310, 336, 398, 402, 427, 442, 508, 579, 580, 614, 651, 654, and 732 for example.
        My word. You're dedicated!
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        • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
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          Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

          My word. You're dedicated!
          Search feature saved a lot of time .
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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        Originally Posted by Joseph Robinson View Post

        Too many people sold the WSO section as a business in itself instead of what it was intended to be
        This, too.

        Originally Posted by Joseph Robinson View Post

        You see it with writing too, and that's how the .000001 per word market was born on here.
        And this, too.
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        • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
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          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          And this, too.
          To expand on the writing bit (for me as a writer I hold as much confusion/contempt/disappointment for writing prices as others do for WSOs) the same WTDIYD treatment:

          Newbies have been told to write in posts 3, 11, 12, 38, 47, 95, 121, 144, 153, 156, 163, 168, 174, 184, 185, 204, 218, 279, 291, 317, 328, 339, 375, 379, 398, 402, 404, 409, 414, 415, 450, 463, 471, 485, 581, 614, 626, 651, 712, 721, 732

          Disclaimer just to make sure: I'm not "shooting the messengers" for suggesting writing, and not bashing the What to do if You're Desperate thread either (it's one of countless threads where advice on writing and WSO's are given out). Just pointing out the sheer number of times that this advice is given out.
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    • Profile picture of the author domain2day
      I totally agree with you here. Most of the "gurus" are mostly just interested in building their lists. You pay $7 for the best traffic idea the world has ever seen, and they now have you on their list and want to sell you many more products.

      "The money's in the list." How many times have you heard that? Why is that?

      Because it's true.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    I can't speak for all people selling WSOs...but:

    1. A WSO is supposed to be a "special" offer for Warrior members. The original purpose was intended to be to give other members the best deal possible.

    2. Some of us use the JC Penny theory of selling and that is to set the price at the lowest possible price we'll accept for a product, instead of trying to find the highest profit margin for a product.

    Now, combine 1 and 2 and this is how I set my own WSO prices. If you're not willing to give other Warriors the best possible deal, you probably shouldn't list it as a WSO. A WSO used to be as much about giving other Warriors a good deal as it was to make money.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I can't speak for all people selling WSOs...but:

      1. A WSO is supposed to be a "special" offer for Warrior members. The original purpose was intended to be to give other members the best deal possible.

      2. Some of us use the JC Penny theory of selling and that is to set the price at the lowest possible price we'll accept for a product, instead of trying to find the highest profit margin for a product.

      Now, combine 1 and 2 and this is how I set my own WSO prices. If you're not willing to give other Warriors the best possible deal, you probably shouldn't list it as a WSO. A WSO used to be as much about giving other Warriors a good deal as it was to make money.
      Kurt: Your product was actually one I was thinking of. Huge value, tiny price.
      And I get the thing about "Sharing". I give my share of free advice here too. I actually feel obligated because of the great value I've received here.

      OK, maybe that's really the answer. But some of these WSOs look like they have taken months to build. For $50? Not from me.

      I see the reports for $17. A 25 page report, even one stocked with value, may take me a day to write (maybe even a few hours). I see that.

      I'm talking about the courses. Including software, video, documents, sample reports, websites, and more. Anyway, I appreciate you guys giving some ideas.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        Kurt: Your product was actually one I was thinking of. Huge value, tiny price.
        And I get the thing about "Sharing". I give my share of free advice here too. I actually feel obligated because of the great value I've received here.

        OK, maybe that's really the answer. But some of these WSOs look like they have taken months to build. For $50? Not from me.

        I see the reports for $17. A 25 page report, even one stocked with value, may take me a day to write (maybe even a few hours). I see that.

        I'm talking about the courses. Including software, video, documents, sample reports, websites, and more. Anyway, I appreciate you guys giving some ideas.
        Hi Claude,

        Thanks for the comments.

        Video Thunder took me a couple of weeks to write, a few hours a day. Often I write for myself and much of Video Thunder was about research, testing and experience and then compiling what I learned into a document I could refer to, sort of a collection of notes.

        From there, it was easy to convert to a product. And when I price things, I generally use the "lowest price I'm willing to sell for" model. I do have a sales page for Video Thunder where it sells for more than the WSO price, but to be honest, I'm conflicted about this because I'd like to give everyone the lowest price, but this is against the spirit and letter of the WSO rules.

        I think the biggest problem with low price points with WSOs has more to do with getting affiliates. Most marketers don't agree with the "lowest possible price" and are only interested in how to make the most money.

        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        George; That's what I would have thought. But of all the "Report" WSOs I've bought, none have had a real agenda to upsell. I keep getting e-maiols for affiliate products...but nothing about consulting or further advanced information packages. The upsells offered after you buy are still very inexpensive. I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just not used to it when I look at information products outside of this forum. I've received some good information about the "Why's" here. I just wasn't used to it.
        I'm "guilty" of this...I never claimed to be the best marketer.

        Again, I wrote Video Thunder for myself, then turned it into a product. The true value of Video Thunder is for ME to use it, not create a customer base to sell to.
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  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    I was just thinking the same thing earlier when I saw a WSO for $27. I have a photography promotion where I made almost $5000 in less than a month and I wouldn't sell the plan for just $27.
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  • Profile picture of the author cooler1
    Because most WSOs are just rehashed crap with over hyped sales pages and are not worth more than they cost in most cases although there are exceptions.
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    • Profile picture of the author Indecision
      Originally Posted by cooler1 View Post

      Because most WSOs are just rehashed crap with over hyped sales pages and are not worth more than they cost in most cases although there are exceptions.
      not worth the paper they're printed on
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  • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
    Saturation has brought about desperation in WSO.

    And people from countries with low standard of living don't have any problem selling WSO for $15 or $7 because it means a lot to them.

    Also true, top Imers now simply just use WSO to build list first before offering their products for a higher amount after relationship and trust have been built.
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  • Profile picture of the author clive1956
    It is my understanding that the products are supposed to be priced lower on the warior form,then any where on the internet!
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    • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
      Originally Posted by clive1956 View Post

      It is my understanding that the products are supposed to be priced lower on the warior form,then any where on the internet!
      True to your words..that is why it's called Warrior Special Offer.

      It's actually a place where people will get a product or service that a very cheap rate than it's usual price.

      However, how cheap it will be has to do with how much it's been sold outside the community and it's just the sellers choice anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author goguy
    Some are definitely targeting interested member with fewer dollars to spent, while some selling at low price in other to attract members that will subscribe to what they are offering and later charge them on recurring basis.
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  • Profile picture of the author Martin Lee Jr
    Sadly - it looks like the place is turned into Ebay. A Marketplace where sellers compete on price instead of value. Thank goodness everyone is not doing it. Maybe you should have to meet some criteria before creating a WSO, other than joining the War Room, and paying your fee .

    Like a certain posts minimum. Like 1000 or better posts.

    I know many will disagree with that statement.

    Yes, I know if they do that - it may disqualify some of the best WSO creators as many of them don't post on here too often, but it would cut down on some of the slop, and we would feel better about getting a quality WSO.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cali16
      Originally Posted by Martin Lee Jr View Post

      Maybe you should have to meet some criteria before creating a WSO, other than joining the War Room, and paying your fee .

      Like a certain posts minimum. Like 1000 or better posts.
      I completely agree with you that WSO sellers should have to meet more criteria than joining the War Room and paying their fee. Personally, I would require them to be a WF member for a minimum of 1 year before selling a WSO. But whether or not the current requirements will ever change is up to Allen.

      However, having a high post count requirement would just cause some eager WSO sellers to ramp up their post count with endless posts that don't add any real value. We already see this problem a lot; needing 1000 (or even 500) posts to have a WSO would be a nightmare for the forum (and especially for the mods!)

      A couple of the bests WSOs I've ever purchased were from people who don't post often but who definitey know their stuff.

      As for the low-priced WSOs; when I first joined the forum 5 years ago, WSO prices typically ranged from $27 to $67. Anything below $17 was extremely rare (at least from my recollection). The current WSO forum is a very different place.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post


    Is offering a product on a forum simply that much different than in a group presentation? That may be the answer, and I'm just not seeing it.
    I think the basic answer to your question is the marketplace.

    Those people who attend seminars show that they have
    money and are willing to spend it for their education.
    Most people on the WF are trying to make it and the
    vast majority are struggling.

    I've received similar comments from WF customers
    as "you should be selling this for a lot more" but
    my sales results show that $37 is the big bump that
    most Warriors stall at. So if your WSO goes over
    that price sales fall off drastically. (My own tests.)
    So you hope that the volume would make up the
    difference which doesn't always work out.

    Also keep in mind that some vendors use the WSO
    as a list builder for a higher priced upsell--so the
    WSO may just be a loss leader.

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      I think the basic answer to your question is the marketplace.

      Those people who attend seminars show that they have
      money and are willing to spend it for their education.
      Most people on the WF are trying to make it and the
      vast majority are struggling.

      I've received similar comments from WF customers
      as "you should be selling this for a lot more" but
      my sales results show that $37 is the big bump that
      most Warriors stall at. So if your WSO goes over
      that price sales fall off drastically. (My own tests.)
      So you hope that the volume would make up the
      difference which doesn't always work out.

      Also keep in mind that some vendors use the WSO
      as a list builder for a higher priced upsell--so the
      WSO may just be a loss leader.

      -Ray Edwards
      That was hugely valuable information. Thank you.
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  • Profile picture of the author pandadoodle
    I was talking about something very similar to this today. I was thinking about offering up a WSO for $1000 + but was talked out of it because of the "cheap" selling that has sort of become accepted here.
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    • Profile picture of the author Raydal
      Originally Posted by pandadoodle View Post

      I was talking about something very similar to this today. I was thinking about offering up a WSO for $1000 + but was talked out of it because of the "cheap" selling that has sort of become accepted here.
      There have been WSO's with that price range but has been
      in usually higher prices services such as copywriting. So I
      wouldn't automatically eliminate the possibility by the
      price.

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  • Profile picture of the author SunnyDelight
    I think WSOs are a great way to get your foot in the door as an IMer. From what I have seen most WSOs have a few higher priced upsells which really bring in the money.

    If I was just starting out I'd definently do WSOs. They help build your name and credibility up so that you CAN sale those $2000 courses. Who's going to spend $2000 dollars on a course from a guy that has literally NO track record in IM? I know I wouldn't.

    Another thing I think is... It helps newbies get in the habit of making money and gain confidence in their work and sales pitches. Most newbies aren't going to be able to sell a $2000+ course right off the bat when they first start.

    Starting small gives them experience and knowledge so that they can make those big sales. Of course you can always expand on previous product by making it physical and even more up to date and indepth.

    Its a great plan I think for newbies starting out to sale a few $10 and $15 products. After you build a name and record. Scale up and go bigger!
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    • Profile picture of the author Sleika
      Just to be a devils advocate, the apparent value is being over valued ... $5,000, come on

      A typical book or DVD/CD at the store is somewhere between $20 and $30 bucks with the same information that is being provided in these WSO's

      Coaching is another story all together, but the info products need a realistic price range
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Sleika View Post

        Just to be a devils advocate, the apparent value is being over valued ... $5,000, come on

        A typical book or DVD/CD at the store is somewhere between $20 and $30 bucks with the same information that is being provided in these WSO's

        Coaching is another story all together, but the info products need a realistic price range
        You have the same image of CDs that people have of books. A CD is $10...everyone knows that. You aren't buying the Cd. You are buying the expertise of the author. I know that's contrary to most beliefs, but it's the clearest way I can explain it. And $5,000 is way at the high end, and usually involves coaching in some way. But a $1,000 box of DVDs is extremely common. Just... not.... here.
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  • Profile picture of the author cbader
    I agree with many of the answers above. But let us not forget competition, that will drive prices down down down.
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    • Profile picture of the author pandadoodle
      Originally Posted by cbader View Post

      I agree with many of the answers above. But let us not forget competition, that will drive prices down down down.
      Not everything is about price in the business world.

      Most people go out of business because they drop prices so LOW they can't live or profit of the cost they charge. Sure you might be busy but if you can't pay your overheads, save, pay tax, take a wage there isn't much point being the cheapest is there.

      The only reason people go so cheap is because they can't sell the product / service they offer in the first place so assume going cheaper is the way to get sales.
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  • Profile picture of the author emigre
    It's all about "perceived value" that affects how much someone is willing to pay for your product - that's what I was told, anyway.
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    • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
      hmmmmmm
      I could probably write a few volumes on what I think, but I will keep it short.

      An offline presentation is going to cater to a different audience who knows, what they want and how much they are going to spend. They are going to pay for what they get most likely 1 time.

      WSO's on the other hand whether good or bad help to build up a list, give the ability to upsell down the road and through webinars, also give you the ability to repackage the product and sell it over and over again.

      Many and I really don't encourage this put out a decent product and their going to do 1000+ at least building their lists, and then bombard that list 2 to 10 times daily with other WSO offers. I'm assuming if they have a good model that they can get 30 to 50% to buy the newer WSO's. Now, how much is that per day? lolol Looking at the cost of a WSO 10 to 27 bucks a pop that's 5k to 13.5k per a day, without all the overhead.
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    This may shed some light on what the WSO forum is meant to be.

    Sadly the old archived forum seems to be down. Happily the Wayback machine has it.

    It's a thread started by Allen, titled...

    The Warrior Forum - How Can This Forum Make You $50,000 Or More?

    George Wright
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  • Profile picture of the author TeamBringIt
    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    This is a real question. I spend a lot of time at seminars (sometimes teaching, sometimes as an attendant-prospecting)

    Most people have an information product to sell. Usually it's between $500 and $5,000. You know, CDs, a manual or two, a few DVDS. VIOLA! $2,000 product.

    I've bought a few near worthless WSOs here. But most are real courses that I would expect to buy for between $1,000-$3,000. Even most of the reports would sell for $300 or more if they were also read onto a CD.

    I read posts where people are asking for a "review copy" when the product is $5.
    And read posts where a $5 book on Amazon needs more proof that it is the magic pill, before someone will plop down a few dollars.

    What is the difference here on this forum?
    Is it;
    People here are just used to getting something for close to nothing.
    Since the products are digital, they just sell for far less.
    Most people on this forum are not making any money, and that's the real reason (I'm not trying to be mean here)
    It's simply a crowd that isn't used to spending money.
    After a few years, it's a matter of price conditioning.

    Or, is it that there really is wealth made here that I can't see in huge volume and back end sales?

    For example, I bought a WSO for (I think) $27 with nearly 8 hours of video, every document you could think of, software that should have been $500 by itself, and quick answering of customer questions. I was astounded that it wasn't $2,000 from one of the better know Gurus.

    I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm serious here. I'm not setting up a WSO myself. I'm nobody's affiliate. Hasn't this question been raised before?

    Is offering a product on a forum simply that much different than in a group presentation? That may be the answer, and I'm just not seeing it.
    People on this forum, will not pull out their wallets and pay $200, $500, and even $2000.
    90% will not, unless it is something so damn special-- that the price bleeds a value that is at 10 to 100 times more. WSO is called a warrior special offer for a reason, the prices are a bit lower-- so everyone can get a treat or have significant savings.

    Now, if you are at a conference or on a webinar, then the prices tend to be higher and the prospect selection will be much deeper and 100% more qualified/selected. When this happens, people tend to spend more money and the sellers can sell at higher prices.

    This forum is filled with all types of people, all have different budgets and different levels of incomes. All are interested in making money, but not all will pay outrageous prices for-- a product or service.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TeamBringIt View Post

      People on this forum, will not pull out their wallets and pay $200, $500, and even $2000.
      90% will not, unless it is something so damn special-- that the price bleeds a value that is at 10 to 100 times more. WSO is called a warrior special offer for a reason, the prices are a bit lower-- so everyone can get a treat or have significant savings.
      Personally, I have sold $100 products here and $500 products here successfully. I've also bought products in the hundreds numerous times, and many others have also. I would say that a large portion of "buyers" are newbies scouring the WSO forum for freebies or prices so low they amount to freebies. They have never been my target market and by the same token, the kind of products that appeal to them are not the kind of products that I would be interested in. There are serious buyers on this forum that will pay for quality. Whether or not a $4K price tag would go over, I can't say as I haven't seen a WSO offering such a product or service here. That doesn't mean that there isn't one hiding somewhere ... just that I haven't seen it.
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  • Profile picture of the author OnlineAddict
    I think if the WSOs were more expensive, the newbies would benefit much more from it, too. Now, a typical newbie buys 10-20 WSOs for $100-200, reads them all and tries to start too many business at the same time, without doing one of them properly. If the same person bought just 1 for $100-200 after reading the reviews and picking a niche that he actually likes and understands a little, he would dedicate more time to it and would be more successful, too.
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    • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
      Originally Posted by OnlineAddict View Post

      I think if the WSOs were more expensive, the newbies would benefit much more from it, too. Now, a typical newbie buys 10-20 WSOs for $100-200, reads them all and tries to start too many business at the same time, without doing one of them properly. If the same person bought just 1 for $100-200 after reading the reviews and picking a niche that he actually likes and understands a little, he would dedicate more time to it and would be more successful, too.
      I think it depends on the audience.
      Me- I did hosting, web design, and affiliate marketing near the beginning.
      According to my banker a lot of business people who have been laid off or fired, or just quit their day gigs were going into Affiliate and Internet Marketing.

      So, what I'm saying is we are kinda new, but not totally new.
      So, when I saw a WSO by Tristan Bull and another by Alex Jeffrey's both 10bucks or under. I grabbed them because I wanted to be up to date.

      If they would have priced them 100 to 200 bucks - I wouldn't have purchased at all.
      1 - Because funds are limited, learning how IM works and developing sites under wordpress.
      2 - Because I only want an updated version on how IM and AM work today.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    Lots of people just promote wsos to help build their list, make a name, and to add them to their buyer list.

    Then, later on, comes the $5,000 product
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Murdaugh
    To build a list.

    To get attention.

    To get customers into your funnel.

    To pitch an up-sell.

    To "wow" customers with great content for next to nothing so they stick with you over the long term.

    You'd be surprised how well a $97 upsell can convert from a $7 front-end. Or what the LTV of a $7 buyer can be if someone knows how to manage an email list. It's a hungry market place.

    IMO it's a list-builder, and a chance to give back to the community. There's a lot of crap. There's also a lot of opportunity to build a list, build a following and make a name for yourself.
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  • Profile picture of the author FIP
    As has been touched on here a number of times..whether directly or otherwise:

    WSO's imo are not cheap in a lot of instances. $5 isn't cheap if it leads you to buy an OTO, a couple of upsells/downsells and then half a dozen product recommendations...from there get on a list and on lists of other Im'ers via solo ads/JV's etc etc etc.

    The result hundreds of $$ spend and further confusion...

    Cheap we say? I don't think so
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Cheap is relative, depending on the value/quality of what you get.
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    nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author Simon Ashari
    Read through the posts. I don't think anyone has addressed the whole issue.

    What makes the WSOs so cheap when they offer so much value (which they do)?

    A combination of the following:

    Low barrier to entry ($40)

    Can try and fail with low risk (again $40)

    expectation of market

    ability for seller to pad list with buyers for low cost (repeating the $40 figure)

    lack of confidence of sellers

    ability to sell 'one problem, one solution' short reports in an economically viable way.

    Any others I've missed?
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Murdaugh
    Any others I've missed?
    Ascension and retention.

    It's not uncommon for your average low-ticket buyer to ascend a sales funnel and become a hyper-responsive customer.
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  • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    What is the difference here on this forum?
    Is it;
    People here are just used to getting something for close to nothing.
    Since the products are digital, they just sell for far less.
    Most people on this forum are not making any money, and that's the real reason (I'm not trying to be mean here)
    It's simply a crowd that isn't used to spending money.
    After a few years, it's a matter of price conditioning.
    The answer is not a question of what is different on this forum, but what is different about seminar attendees that fork over $2,000 for a product instead of buying the WSO equivalent for $17.

    First of all, seminar buyers likely don't know this forum exists. The prime seminar buyer is the couple at or nearing retirement age that needs to make nest egg money, and fast. So forking over $500 or $2,000 that they really can't afford to spend sounds like a decent idea at the time. The younger portion of the crowds are tech dummies who are intrigued by the mysteriousness of using their computer to make money online instead of getting a "real job." Throw in an atmosphere of peer pressure from each other to "go for it" and they buy in.

    The one thing seminar attendees all have in common is that each fit the stereotype of the perpetual newbie who will make little to nothing online no matter how long they keep at it. And those are the types of buyers the seminar organizers just love.... the ones who need to keep buying because they keep failing. It's a similar story at the "no money down" real estate investment seminars. The same core group of people go to those again and again, but they never buy any property.

    There is no problem with WarriorForum pricing in general. You can go to the bookstore and get a 400 page business book for $14.95. So I don't think a WSO of the same price is this astonishingly good value. Different types of content, but the value of knowledge attained can be similar if the WSO is decent.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

      The answer is not a question of what is different on this forum, but what is different about seminar attendees that fork over $2,000 for a product instead of buying the WSO equivalent for $17.

      First of all, seminar buyers likely don't know this forum exists. The prime seminar buyer is the couple at or nearing retirement age that needs to make nest egg money, and fast. So forking over $500 or $2,000 that they really can't afford to spend sounds like a decent idea at the time. The younger portion of the crowds are tech dummies who are intrigued by the mysteriousness of using their computer to make money online instead of getting a "real job." Throw in an atmosphere of peer pressure from each other to "go for it" and they buy in.

      The one thing seminar attendees all have in common is that each fit the stereotype of the perpetual newbie who will make little to nothing online no matter how long they keep at it. And those are the types of buyers the seminar organizers just love.... the ones who need to keep buying because they keep failing. It's a similar story at the "no money down" real estate investment seminars. The same core group of people go to those again and again, but they never buy any property.

      There is no problem with WarriorForum pricing in general. You can go to the bookstore and get a 400 page business book for $14.95. So I don't think a WSO of the same price is this astonishingly good value. Different types of content, but the value of knowledge attained can be similar if the WSO is decent.
      Dear DubDubDubDot (If that is your real name!)

      Actually, pretty insightful. You are right about some seminars. There are lots of seminars that frankly rely on newbies to make money, or retired people without strong business skills. You are right about the peer pressure, and the heat of the moment. And there are "Seminar Junkies". Everything you say, I agree with.

      But that's not the kind of seminar I was talking about. I'm not talking about the general public attending a "No money down" seminar. I meant business marketing seminars attended mostly by reasonably advanced marketers. And speeches I give to groups of business owners.

      And you are right about seminar buyers not knowing this forum exists. In fact, I have other sources of information product that I never share with anyone, especially other seminar attendees. It would destroy their point of view.

      And there is another difference between business books (even 400 page ones) and some WSOs I've seen here. Business books almost always try to appeal to a more general audience. So the information is less specific.

      For example, I've read just about every book on cold calling on the phone. Maybe 25 books. Some good, some less so.

      But I bought a WSO for $27 here that gave a very specific script that I would have paid $500 for gladly. It was a few very short videos and about 25 pages of script. Some of the WSOs are far better than a book sold in bookstores.
      It changed the way I made appointments over the phone.

      And there is a huge difference between some of the crap sold at seminars to newbies and the in depth training offered to advanced audiences. And some of that advanced training I got here, from a few WSOs. In fact, some from free posts answering questions.

      There have been some intelligent posts that have answered my question in full. Thanks guys.
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  • Profile picture of the author ecommercevisibility
    Nice question. This is because most of the WSOs are crap and worthless. People are just packaging or re packaging free information and trying to make a few bucks. A lot of people have been scammed again and again.

    Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

    This is a real question. I spend a lot of time at seminars (sometimes teaching, sometimes as an attendant-prospecting)

    I read posts where people are asking for a "review copy" when the product is $5.
    And read posts where a $5 book on Amazon needs more proof that it is the magic pill, before someone will plop down a few dollars.

    What is the difference here on this forum?
    Is it;
    People here are just used to getting something for close to nothing.
    Since the products are digital, they just sell for far less.
    Most people on this forum are not making any money, and that's the real reason (I'm not trying to be mean here)
    It's simply a crowd that isn't used to spending money.
    After a few years, it's a matter of price conditioning.

    Or, is it that there really is wealth made here that I can't see in huge volume and back end sales?

    For example, I bought a WSO for (I think) $27 with nearly 8 hours of video, every document you could think of, software that should have been $500 by itself, and quick answering of customer questions. I was astounded that it wasn't $2,000 from one of the better know Gurus.

    I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm serious here. I'm not setting up a WSO myself. I'm nobody's affiliate. Hasn't this question been raised before?

    Is offering a product on a forum simply that much different than in a group presentation? That may be the answer, and I'm just not seeing it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Anonymous Affiliate
    Why are WSOs priced so low? very simple...

    Because they target the typical WarriorForum browser: a newbie with the shinny object syndrome, jumping endlessly from one "magic secret" to the next one without ever truly building a sensible business. As a result, that target audience prefers to buy 10 different shiny new products (WSOs) at $7 than one "serious" product at $97.

    You see, unfortunately most people here at the WF don't want to purchase business tools... they want to buy shinny gimmicks. Why? because they never truly meant to take IM as a serious business to begin with.

    The same applies to every niche. Take the Lose Weight niche and the success of **** Berry pills. Those who purchased **** Berry pills never truly meant to lose weight, because if they did they would have done the ONLY proper way to lose weight: eat healthier and sweat more. But they weren't up to that, thus savvy marketers gave them their version of a shinny gimmick: **** Berry pills, and they sold millions of them.

    Guess what: the same principles to Internet Marketing.

    As marketers, our job is to provide the marketplace with the type of offers they demand, and let's be honest here: 95% of Warriors get a kick by collecting a bunch of Wordpress or Facebook gimmicks (which will hardly ever be put to any profitable use), and thus that's what experienced WSO creators (those selling thousands of units) throw at them on a daily basis.

    Offer and demand guys... that's what this game is all about, and that's why WSOs are priced so low: the offer is targeted to a very specific demand.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
    The overhead to launch a WSO is ridiculously low. And while many fail to make much money, a wso seller with a good, well-targeted product can recoup their costs and make a profit. That's all many are asking of this marketplace...so they try to adjust price to match expected demand and provide a necessary profit margin.

    I do think the growing number of overseas wso vendors does tend to pull prices lower, since in some of these countries, they need even less of a margin to be profitable. For instance, I know a seller in an eastern European republic for whom one successful wso can pay 6 months of his living costs!....not easy, for sure, but in his case, worth trying.

    Man, I wish my costs were that low!
    _____
    Bruce
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  • Profile picture of the author paul nicholls
    Apart from some of the things that people have already said:

    One of the reasons why wso`s may seem so cheap is because you end up getting more buyers through the door

    if someone is willing to spend $9.95 on a product then you stand a far better chance of selling them a more expensive product as an upsell or OTO

    if however, you started your price at $27 you would get far less sales (in most cases)

    once you do a few wso`s you will know exactly what i mean

    getting buyers through the door is priority even if they only purchase a $5 product off of you

    paul
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  • Profile picture of the author JabMonkey
    The low prices are like loss leaders at retail stores. The real value for the sellers are the email optins and the upsells...but a lot of WSOs make big sales, so it's not really a "loss". Some bank thousands on one low priced product.
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