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Is this IP lawyer threatening me?

by JerryFB
21 replies
Okay first, i most certainly am not accusing this person of making a threat and i fully do understand that what he is saying might be 100% true but, it's the way he said it, what do you make of this:

I rang an IP lawyer after acquiring his number from our patent office website, we agreed that if i gave him a word to "check" against existing trademarks so that i could use it for the purpose of selling a particular product (that i make myself) online within my country (Ireland, to use as an irish domain name .ie), so he said that was fine, and quoted me a price of 130 EUR to check this and give me the go-ahead basically.

So today i was on the phone to him, and i got a bit of a land well okay a huge land, he told me how he plans to ring me during the week and give me legal advice plus XYZ you name it, and that it would cost 900 EUR, i said wait.. i only wanted the initial check and go-ahead on the word, and then he said "well hold on now, that was ONLY for me to do the search, there's a lot more that has to be done" i said well we agreed on a check only and your confirmation on using it so i can register the local trademark myself, he said "well you'd be very surprised what other problems you'd run into and WHO might object to you registering it" in a very angry voice, the rest of the conversation wasn't great at all with a sort of passive aggressive tone, hard to explain.

What do i do?

Please offer your opinion, thank you.

P.S. It took me so long to even think of an appropriate word/name, otherwise i would simply use a different one now.
#lawyer #threatening
  • Profile picture of the author misterme
    What threat? Sounds more like he was trying to sell you more on his services, which you might need after all, explaining the unknown pitfalls facing trademarking a word, but frustrated that you weren't buying.
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    • Profile picture of the author JerryFB
      Originally Posted by misterme View Post

      What threat? Sounds more like he was trying to sell you more on his services, which you might need after all, explaining the unknown pitfalls facing trademarking a word, but frustrated that you weren't buying.

      It's not so much a threat like your dead if i ever see you but being completely honest it seemed as if (and i got other opinions) he was kind of saying "with a click of my fingers i could stop all this from working for you".
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  • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
    If he's aggressive or angry, send him a letter by recorded delivery stating that you do not wish to use his services for anything other than the initial check that you paid for.

    That way he can't claim that he believed you had given him the go ahead to do more work.

    Being rude or aggressive is no way for a reputable lawyer to treat their clients. There might well be other work that needs doing, but you want it done by someone who is friendly and helpful and willing to state their costs up front.

    That's my 2c worth.
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    • Profile picture of the author JerryFB
      Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

      If he's aggressive or angry, send him a letter by recorded delivery stating that you do not wish to use his services for anything other than the initial check that you paid for.

      That way he can't claim that he believed you had given him the go ahead to do more work.

      Being rude or aggressive is no way for a reputable lawyer to treat their clients. There might well be other work that needs doing, but you want it done by someone who is friendly and helpful and willing to state their costs up front.

      That's my 2c worth.
      After that phone call i would LOVE to tell him to go fly a kite.. but i know this guy could in a flash turn what i am doing upside down.. i mean he knows it all, this is his area, with ease if i pissed him off he could do what he wants no problem in the world.
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      • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
        Banned
        Originally Posted by JerryFB View Post

        After that phone call i would LOVE to tell him to go fly a kite.. but i know this guy could in a flash turn what i am doing upside down.. i mean he knows it all, this is his area, with ease if i pissed him off he could do what he wants no problem in the world.
        Not sure how things operate in Ireland, but I'd be willing to bet something like you're describing would be illegal. I seriously doubt he's going to jeopardize his law practice simply because you aren't interested in his upsell. At this point, there's nothing left for the two of you to discuss. You're not obligated to keep giving him money simply because he wants you to. You hired him to do something, and he did it. Time to move on, just like you would in any other transaction.
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  • Profile picture of the author pandadoodle
    Sounds to me like hes just trying to upsell his services. If your going to register the trademark yourself which is has its whole host of issues with it, why didnt you just search it your self? Instead of using another party?
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    • Profile picture of the author JerryFB
      Originally Posted by pandadoodle View Post

      Sounds to me like hes just trying to upsell his services. If your going to register the trademark yourself which is has its whole host of issues with it, why didnt you just search it your self? Instead of using another party?
      Because i didn't know how at all, i only learned of trademarks shortly before this and studied and discovered the simplicity of doing things yourself between the initial call to him and the last one.
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  • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
    Originally Posted by JerryFB View Post

    Okay first, i most certainly am not accusing this person of making a threat and i fully do understand that what he is saying might be 100% true but, it's the way he said it, what do you make of this:

    I rang an IP lawyer after acquiring his number from our patent office website, we agreed that if i gave him a word to "check" against existing trademarks so that i could use it for the purpose of selling a particular product (that i make myself) online within my country (Ireland, to use as an irish domain name .ie), so he said that was fine, and quoted me a price of 130 EUR to check this and give me the go-ahead basically.

    So today i was on the phone to him, and i got a bit of a land well okay a huge land, he told me how he plans to ring me during the week and give me legal advice plus XYZ you name it, and that it would cost 900 EUR, i said wait.. i only wanted the initial check and go-ahead on the word, and then he said "well hold on now, that was ONLY for me to do the search, there's a lot more that has to be done" i said well we agreed on a check only and your confirmation on using it so i can register the local trademark myself, he said "well you'd be very surprised what other problems you'd run into and WHO might object to you registering it" in a very angry voice, the rest of the conversation wasn't great at all with a sort of passive aggressive tone, hard to explain.

    What do i do?

    Please offer your opinion, thank you.

    P.S. It took me so long to even think of an appropriate word/name, otherwise i would simply use a different one now.
    abandon the idea of a trademark.

    if you can't fork over 900 for a trademark lawyer there is no way you can defend a trademark.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Walter Parrish View Post

      abandon the idea of a trademark.

      if you can't fork over 900 for a trademark lawyer there is no way you can defend a trademark.
      That's not true. I filed for a trademark years ago. Cost $200 filing fee. Adobe opposed it. I fought back ... and won. Didn't cost me a dime.
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      • Profile picture of the author fluffythewondercat
        "Nice little word you've got here. Shame if anything were to happen to it."

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      • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        That's not true. I filed for a trademark years ago. Cost $200 filing fee. Adobe opposed it. I fought back ... and won. Didn't cost me a dime.
        If adobe would have brought out their dream team you would have had to fork over the Big Bucks for a legal team.

        The thing that most don't understand about trademarks is that nothing is written in stone it's based on use, and defending it.

        As a small company I probably wouldn't even waste time with a trademark, unless it was something technical like hardware or something.
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      • Profile picture of the author ExquisiteMedia
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        That's not true. I filed for a trademark years ago. Cost $200 filing fee. Adobe opposed it. I fought back ... and won. Didn't cost me a dime.
        You can do your own due diligence. In the divorce that I'm going through now, I got scared because of what my lawyer was telling me. I got in touch with a lawyer that represented me a while back, who is closely attached to me in an undisclosed way and she confirmed this.

        For my business, the trademarks and incorporating is all done myself. If I have to defend it in any way, I try to do it myself and will only hire a lawyer as a last resort.
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  • Profile picture of the author SamuelCarter
    It looks like he feels he can get more money about of you. However legally there was no agreement verbally for the extra services he is now mentioning.

    If you feel threatened or he is contacting you continously and you have told him to stop then he could be would be looking at criminal offences etc. However he may dispute this as a civil mater. If you do ever have a conversation and you feel there is a threat then record the conversation. Apart from that business as usual. Crack on, im sure there are plenty of warriors to help with any questions in the relevant sections
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  • Profile picture of the author marketingva
    Jerry,

    I've worked for lawyers, unfortunately, in the United States and the conversation you describe is how they upsell clients. I never saw them do anything negative to someone who didn't buy everything from them. They were just rude and aggressive working on the upsell.

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  • Profile picture of the author JerryFB
    Thanks for the replies, i know it is very unrealistic that he would try and screw me up over something like that but it was just going through my head afterwards about what he might try during the opposition period, or to tip someone off about registering this name before me as it's a few days away or doing something else, but then again this would probably be time consuming on his side so now thinking more positively, why would he bother.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    I have a low opinion of the average lawyer, and have said it before. I have even referred to the scene in liar liar where the boy is in a class and the teacher gets to him and asks what his father does. And he says his dad is a liar. When he explains to the teacher, she says "OH, you mean LAWYER!". The kid shrugs his shoulders, as if to say they are both the same.

    Accident attorneys are often called "ambulance chasers" here, in the US, because they WILL follow down such leads.

    Frankly, upsells should be smoother, and done at the beginning, when you checked the price. So I would go with someone else.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author JerryFB
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      I have a low opinion of the average lawyer, and have said it before. I have even referred to the scene in liar liar where the boy is in a class and the teacher gets to him and asks what his father does. And he says his dad is a liar. When he explains to the teacher, she says "OH, you mean LAWYER!". The kid shrugs his shoulders, as if to say they are both the same.

      Accident attorneys are often called "ambulance chasers" here, in the US, because they WILL follow down such leads.

      Frankly, upsells should be smoother, and done at the beginning, when you checked the price. So I would go with someone else.

      Steve
      Well i have to admit now i have heard from someone reasonably local to me that they had a very bad experience with a particular "patent" attorney. About a year ago he felt he was kind of being almost blackmailed. I understand that he has disclosed the invention (never followed up on it after) to the attorney, but upon deciding to file the short term application himself instead of paying over 3000 to the lawyer, he was told stuff like:

      You know this can become public domain if it was to get out before the process... Sometimes new inventions get bad reviews... You'd never know who might contact companies that manufacture similar products in relation to yours and create a lawsuit etc etc.

      All this came out almost concurrently with the decision to end his services. It could be why he didn't bother after i don't know.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by JerryFB View Post

        Well i have to admit now i have heard from someone reasonably local to me that they had a very bad experience with a particular "patent" attorney. About a year ago he felt he was kind of being almost blackmailed. I understand that he has disclosed the invention (never followed up on it after) to the attorney, but upon deciding to file the short term application himself instead of paying over 3000 to the lawyer, he was told stuff like:

        You know this can become public domain if it was to get out before the process... Sometimes new inventions get bad reviews... You'd never know who might contact companies that manufacture similar products in relation to yours and create a lawsuit etc etc.

        All this came out almost concurrently with the decision to end his services. It could be why he didn't bother after i don't know.
        If he did that(actually made your patent public), and you have proof(Simply of the THREAT), you could SUE THE PANTS OFF HIM, drag his name through the streets, and get him disbarred! He could lose EVERYTHING(CAREER, JOB, MONEY, ETC...), ESPECIALLY if you have a recording or letter with that threat. Frankly, he is an idiot for even STATING that!

        REMEMBER those couple cases a bit over a decade ago where producers got sued for plagerizing scripts they didn't pay for? Basically the SAME thing, except an attorney, at least in the US, is *******REQUIRED******* to take due diligence to keep such things secret. Failing to do so can lead to disbarment, and that means they can't be a lawyer anymore. Granted mistakes can happen, and the court may just let things go, but the threat kind of removes that defense.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author alpinewood
    Banned
    unprofessional maybe but doesn't sound like a threat
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  • Profile picture of the author shane_k
    Originally Posted by JerryFB View Post


    and then he said "well hold on now, that was ONLY for me to do the search, there's a lot more that has to be done" i said well we agreed on a check only and your confirmation on using it so i can register the local trademark myself, he said "well you'd be very surprised what other problems you'd run into and WHO might object to you registering it" in a very angry voice, the rest of the conversation wasn't great at all with a sort of passive aggressive tone, hard to explain.
    I showed this to my father (who is a Lawyer) and he told me that even though this person might have sounded mad to you, that what he said above is a part of his job. And that is to give you fair warning that if you go ahead, either without his representation or another Lawyer's, there are possible problems that you can run into.

    This protects him in case you come back and try and say he never warned you about what could happen, or might happen if you done everything by yourself.

    So he is protecting his own a$$, first and foremost.

    Protecting you is the second reason

    And then upselling you on more services would be the third reason.

    EDIT: My father also told me to mention that the check that you wanted him to run might not be giving you the full information that you need. He said that alot of times clients try and dictate to Lawyers what they think they need, by what they are only willing to pay for. And that what you are willing to pay for, might not always be complete information. Just something else to think about.
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    • Profile picture of the author JerryFB
      Originally Posted by shane_k View Post

      I showed this to my father (who is a Lawyer) and he told me that even though this person might have sounded mad to you, that what he said above is a part of his job. And that is to give you fair warning that if you go ahead, either without his representation or another Lawyer's, there are possible problems that you can run into.

      This protects him in case you come back and try and say he never warned you about what could happen, or might happen if you done everything by yourself.

      So he is protecting his own a$$, first and foremost.

      Protecting you is the second reason

      And then upselling you on more services would be the third reason.

      EDIT: My father also told me to mention that the check that you wanted him to run might not be giving you the full information that you need. He said that alot of times clients try and dictate to Lawyers what they think they need, by what they are only willing to pay for. And that what you are willing to pay for, might not always be complete information. Just something else to think about.
      Wow, very interesting, i know some others here sort of suggested this may be the case but you really elaborated on that side of it there, thanks for running it through your father also.
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