I SAW THE LIGHT! ..Making money in the Offline Biz has NEVER been easier!

138 replies
I'll say only five words: Niche Hosting plus free Design.

1) Get yourself a Reseller Account.

2) Offer Hosting + domain registration at reasonable rates to niche customers (e.g.: offer it only to dentists or restaurant owners or whatever).

3) charge 'em like $29.95/month for hosting + maintenance and give 'em a custom design for FREE as an incentive to sign up (24 month hosting contract). You could even outsource the whole design part.

THING IS: Those business owners, they ALL know each other.. one restaurant owner meets another one.. they talk about websites.. restaurant owner A says: "look at my new homepage".. restaurant owner B replies "wow, who did that?".. SHABANG! You get a new customer.

It's all about word-of-mouth propaganda.

I started a new venture last week and i already have 27 customers, each paying about 30 bucks per month (But i won't tell you my niche, LOL )


Cheerz,
Chris.
#biz #easier #light #making #money #offline
  • Profile picture of the author Maria Gudelis
    Congrats Chris!! I love the forced sign up for 24 month hosting - brilliant!

    I can just imagine now your upsell $$$ now too!!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Bruno
    Thanks for sharing great business model.

    One thing about professionals....

    They want higher standards so you may end up shelling out 1/2 or more for a good site design from your 24mo contracts unless your doing it yourself.

    Frank Bruno
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    • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
      Originally Posted by Frank Bruno View Post

      One thing about professionals....

      They want higher standards so you may end up shelling out 1/2 or more for a good site design from your 24mo contracts unless your doing it yourself.
      Yep, that's right - I'm doin' it all myself and my standard is VERY high.
      But i'm pretty sure that even if you outsource the design work, you *can* make a nice income.
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
    Oh btw, in order to speed up the process of getting the first few customers i did this:
    I advertised my service on niche forums and said something like:

    "[described my killer offer] .. since we are new on the market we'd first like to get some response on our offer - we'll start our services when we get at least 20 interested clients, so have a look at our website and pre-register for our hosting/design offer - and don't hesitate to tell your buddies about this, SPREAD THE WORD!"

    IF you really have something good to offer, they WILL do everything they can to refer you some customers since they WANT (NEED) your design/hosting and they realize they won't get it if you won't get any other clients.
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  • Profile picture of the author koolwarrior
    Banned
    chris...what webhost are you using for reseller hosting? I'm definitely interested in doing something like this.
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    • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
      Originally Posted by koolwarrior View Post

      chris...what webhost are you using for reseller hosting? I'm definitely interested in doing something like this.
      I'm using a local company over here in germany - but you could check out.. perhaps hostgator or surpasshosting, never tried'em tho.
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  • Profile picture of the author joe.marsh
    Chris...

    Another great idea and system.

    Thats why I love this forum.

    Thanks,
    Joe
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  • Profile picture of the author koolwarrior
    Banned
    i have hostgator now for my own collection of websites. I was just looking at hostgators reseller packages.

    Now, I definitely might do it. A+
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  • Profile picture of the author xlfutur1
    It sounds good, but what do you do when 100 of your clients want changes to their website in 1 week? do you just hand it over to them and make them do stuff on their own? I suppose you could charge a backend package for maintenance. Have you had this problem yet?
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    • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
      Originally Posted by xlfutur1 View Post

      It sounds good, but what do you do when 100 of your clients want changes to their website in 1 week? do you just hand it over to them and make them do stuff on their own? I suppose you could charge a backend package for maintenance. Have you had this problem yet?
      Well, personally, i'm providing my services to a niche where the sites won't need to be updated for a long time (or it would just be some very minor changes.. like exchanging one photo or something..)
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  • Profile picture of the author IMDimWit
    Nice model and congrats on your success. I'm off to check on a reseller account...
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  • Profile picture of the author pj413
    Originally Posted by ChrisByrns View Post

    I'll say only five words: Niche Hosting plus free Design.

    1) Get yourself a Reseller Account.

    2) Offer Hosting + domain registration at reasonable rates to niche customers (e.g.: offer it only to dentists or restaurant owners or whatever).

    3) charge 'em like $29.95/month for hosting + maintenance and give 'em a custom design for FREE as an incentive to sign up (24 month hosting contract). You could even outsource the whole design part.

    THING IS: Those business owners, they ALL know each other.. one restaurant owner meets another one.. they talk about websites.. restaurant owner A says: "look at my new homepage".. restaurant owner B replies "wow, who did that?".. SHABANG! You get a new customer.

    It's all about word-of-mouth propaganda.

    I started a new venture last week and i already have 27 customers, each paying about 30 bucks per month (But i won't tell you my niche, LOL )


    Cheerz,
    Chris.

    Very nice offline model, but how much would it cost to outsource the web design?
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  • Profile picture of the author richdirtygirl
    Originally Posted by ChrisByrns View Post

    I'll say only five words: Niche Hosting plus free Design.

    1) Get yourself a Reseller Account.

    2) Offer Hosting + domain registration at reasonable rates to niche customers (e.g.: offer it only to dentists or restaurant owners or whatever).

    3) charge 'em like $29.95/month for hosting + maintenance and give 'em a custom design for FREE as an incentive to sign up (24 month hosting contract). You could even outsource the whole design part.

    THING IS: Those business owners, they ALL know each other.. one restaurant owner meets another one.. they talk about websites.. restaurant owner A says: "look at my new homepage".. restaurant owner B replies "wow, who did that?".. SHABANG! You get a new customer.

    It's all about word-of-mouth propaganda.

    I started a new venture last week and i already have 27 customers, each paying about 30 bucks per month (But i won't tell you my niche, LOL )


    Cheerz,
    Chris.
    Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

    You add a package for promotion and you have them!!!!

    RDG
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  • Profile picture of the author Oracle_320th
    great job This proves that online business can make a lot money from offline world
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  • Profile picture of the author FlightGuy
    Maria made a great point - now they're all upsell $$ potential.

    Start talking to them about lead capture mechanisms and how much they need to have it installed on their website, and what it can do for them. Use real figures and statistics (restaurants are very easy to do this with).

    Great job, keep it up!

    John Dennis
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  • No matter how you go about this, IM for offline rocks!

    There's only one real threat -- what if some IM'er in your area beats you to it?!
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  • Profile picture of the author chrisnegro
    What do you think the price points of $39.95? Do you think this will work or do you think this is pushing it?

    P.S. Nice tip Chris !

    Cheers,

    Chris Negro
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    • Originally Posted by chrisnegro View Post

      What do you think the price points of $39.95? Do you think this will work or do you think this is pushing it?

      P.S. Nice tip Chris !

      Cheers,

      Chris Negro
      I have ran across a couple of clients with outrageous hosting bills (some services included), but still.

      Client A, was signed up with a company that was charging $90 a month. His site was a five page HTML site, with very little traffic - and no scripts.

      The company said they were providing maintenance and traffic - THEY WERE NOT - at least, none of those things were measurable.

      Client B was quoted $800 a month hosting/maintenance, and would build the website for free. This is with a huge International telecom corp. They promised 60 PPC visitors a month.

      Judging by those two cases, does $39.95 seem like a lot? I DONT THINK SO!
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  • Profile picture of the author GoGetta
    Awesome tip Chris!

    Chris Negro - I would think that price would be ok!

    GoGetta
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  • Profile picture of the author Nevada Gal
    Originally Posted by ChrisByrns View Post


    I started a new venture last week and i already have 27 customers, each paying about 30 bucks per month (But i won't tell you my niche, LOL )


    Cheerz,
    Chris.
    Gee Chris, and I was ready to turn my hosting over to you....LOL

    Great job and great idea. Way to roll the dough $$$

    Lisa, the NevadaGal
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  • Profile picture of the author dejoliet31
    Geat job, Chris. You have given me another door opener in the offline biz... even without knowing your niche. LOL.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adaptive
    Awesome tip, Chris, thanks!

    I wonder if there's enough interest in the theme of Offline Marketing to make a dedicated forum for it?

    Regards,
    Allen
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    • Profile picture of the author Riz
      Hi Allen,

      There is a lot of interest in offline marketing. I know of 3 other forums specifically dedicated for this.

      Baal

      Originally Posted by Adaptive View Post

      Awesome tip, Chris, thanks!

      I wonder if there's enough interest in the theme of Offline Marketing to make a dedicated forum for it?

      Regards,
      Allen
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  • Profile picture of the author GoGetta
    Yeh Baal's right, there are a few forums dedicated to offline marketing already.

    Namely,

    Offline Is A Goldmine
    Local Biz Builders

    Awesome forums if you are interested in learning more about this niche and what you can do! Everyone doing this now is more than happy to help as well!

    GoGetta
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    • Profile picture of the author JordanFrancis
      Firstly, thank you Chris for sharing your business model.

      Okay. So let me get this straight:

      You provide a free site, domain registration (?) and hosting for $30 a month on a 24 month contract. Is that right? I didn't see you mention any additional prices for the domain registration, so forgive me if I am wrong.

      So that means that each customer is worth a total of around $720 (over the 2 year period) without taking into consideration your costs (hosting + your time creating the site, maintaining it + support).

      Am I missing something here? Because that looks like a great deal for your customers but not at all for you.

      On the other hand, all of the above relates to the front-end - and there ARE plenty of back-end potentials to explore.

      Ultimately, it is indeed impressive that you got 27 customers in such a short time. I just hope you don't get too bogged down with maintenance and support for your $800/month (minus fees)
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      • Profile picture of the author moncef
        Originally Posted by JordanFrancis View Post

        Firstly, thank you Chris for sharing your business model.

        Okay. So let me get this straight:

        You provide a free site, domain registration (?) and hosting for $30 a month on a 24 month contract. Is that right? I didn't see you mention any additional prices for the domain registration, so forgive me if I am wrong.

        So that means that each customer is worth a total of around $720 (over the 2 year period) without taking into consideration your costs (hosting + your time creating the site, maintaining it + support).

        Am I missing something here? Because that looks like a great deal for your customers but not at all for you.

        On the other hand, all of the above relates to the front-end - and there ARE plenty of back-end potentials to explore.

        Ultimately, it is indeed impressive that you got 27 customers in such a short time. I just hope you don't get too bogged down with maintenance and support for your $800/month (minus fees)
        Was going to basically post the same question.
        Can somebody explain this better?

        Regards,

        Moncef
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  • Profile picture of the author kevin1mil
    Thanks for sharing, Chris.

    So you just help them to create a site tat's all?? or you have to update content on behalf of them?
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  • Profile picture of the author Phil Spinelli
    You're under cutting yourself.

    I hear the yellow pages is charging $400 per month for a basic site (one year contract).

    biglocal.com charges 99 to $149 per month, just to submit your site to some directories and you get a crappy free website (one year contract)

    If you're offering anything worth while, $30 per month is a joke (on you)

    There are a lot of cheap people out their, but many also agree you get what you pay for. Charging more, will probably get you better clients too

    You should be charging to build the site, especially if it's SEO'd.
    You should be charging more for monthly hosting.
    You should be selling more sales, customer and profits, NOT just a website
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    • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
      Originally Posted by Phil Spinelli View Post

      You're under cutting yourself. (...)

      biglocal.com charges 99 to $149 per month, just to submit your site to some directories and you get a crappy free website (one year contract)
      See? "a crappy free website" - I could perhaps also charge like $150 per month, but if the client's not happy he/she wouldn't recommend me to his/her buddies. By offering a low fee + high quality, my service is more attractive and i get more attention.

      But as you said - Each to their own.
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
    My hosting package includes a free top-level domain (.com or .de). On top of that they get a free design. (But my clients have to provide the content/texts)

    The thing is: The design takes me about 2 hours, it's really just a simple 2 or 3 page html site with custom header/footer/design elements.

    Those pages are pretty static and the maintenace is basically just changing a line of text or replacing an image once every month, if that!

    The fact that i got 27 customers in such a short period is just because:

    a) i was (and still am) the first and only to provide this kind of service to this niche
    b) the people in this niche all NEED/WANT a basic, static site
    c) those people are VAIN as hell and WILL show their new site to their colleagues, who also NEED a site
    d) $30 a month is just a drop in the bucket for them, i can easily bump my prices up to like $60/mo (what i'm in fact going to do) and still get new clients.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve Sanchez
      Awesome idea. Thanks for sharing. I love this place.
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  • Profile picture of the author JordanFrancis
    Thank for providing more details, Chris.

    Regarding whether it is too low a price or not... you can charge whatever you want - at least you got paying clients, and quickly. Which is more than many will ever do, whatever the price.

    It's all good in this wonderful diverse world of ours
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  • Profile picture of the author Phil Spinelli
    I charge $100 per hour for consulting (and my clients always make that back, plus some), so in a sense, my consulting is FREE

    For a basic website and SEO, I would charge at lease $500 (and that's low) and minimum $100 per month for maintenance (and my clients always make that back, plus some) so in a sense, my web design and maintenance is FREE

    And I'm cheaper then many others.

    Actually, I'm FREE. My services don't cost my clients anything.

    That's how you guys should be selling your services.

    If you're providing value to your clients, charge em for it.
    If you can increase their amount of prospects, charge em for it
    If you can increase their conversion from prospects to paying customer, charge em for it
    If you can increase their customer value/worth, charge em for it


    They will pay you any amount (within reason) if you are generating more in profits then they are paying you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Leatherman
    Chris,

    Congrats on your business plan and the results you have had.

    Some of you folks are forgetting that Chris obviously wanted to do a test of his chosen niche and get people that would share their site with the others in the same niche. Then he also has shown he will boot the price for his later customers. Good thinking Chris.

    You have to remember that many of these offline folks will continue to renew their contract with him, just as they do automatically with their yellow page ad. His residual income from this basic plan over say 10 years will bring him over $92,000 and this of course does not include the other customers he will continue to ad at the higher price of $60 per month.

    I say again go get em Chris.

    Ken Leatherman
    The Old Geezer
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  • Profile picture of the author Phil Spinelli
    Everybody has their own thing.

    But this kinda stuff has already been tested.

    good luck
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  • Profile picture of the author merigot123
    Obviously with the way things are economically, marketers have a tremendous edge when it goes to tapping into the offline which is wide open. It is a of matter of going out there and applying the necessary skills. You just cannot fail if you are honest with people and if the value provided always exceeds the return (in the beginning ) because you want those peopleto keep coming back for more.
    Cheers...
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  • Profile picture of the author Jay Rhome
    Thanks for sharing this. All my IM efforts have been colossal failures. In fact, I can't even remember failing at something for so long (13+ FULL time months) but in a weird way I've developed expertise that could be very useful for local businesses. I knew that, but didn't feel like getting into the sales/personal service business model again, but you made me change my mind. It beats "regular" jobs. I too feel you should charge more but it got your foot in the door so go reap your rewards.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randy Bheites
    That's great that you clicked with this market. You have to have the temperament for that business model though. Me, I hate customers, don't like having to interact with them. I much prefer business models with lots of automation and handing off customer relations to others.
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    have a great day

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  • Profile picture of the author william.jack38
    Hey bryns, done a good job. But what the reason for hiding your niche? Its a mouth publicity so no one can eat your money. Please share with us.
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    • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
      Originally Posted by william.jack38 View Post

      Hey bryns, done a good job. But what the reason for hiding your niche? Its a mouth publicity so no one can eat your money. Please share with us.
      Okay here you go:

      I'm offering domain-name registration + hosting + design to:

      "professional" ladies (call them h**kers, h*es, pr*stitutes, escorts - whatever you like)

      The first client i got was actually an escort agency, they wanted sites for all their 16 ladies - from that point the word spread in no time.
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      • Profile picture of the author tnleverett
        Originally Posted by ChrisByrns View Post

        Okay here you go:

        I'm offering domain-name registration + hosting + design to:

        "professional" ladies (call them h**kers, h*es, pr*stitutes, escorts - whatever you like)

        The first client i got was actually an escort agency, they wanted sites for all their 16 ladies - from that point the word spread in no time.
        LOL Brilliant!!!

        I like this!

        T
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      • Profile picture of the author iwanttomakemoney
        Originally Posted by ChrisByrns View Post

        Okay here you go:

        I'm offering domain-name registration + hosting + design to:

        "professional" ladies (call them h**kers, h*es, pr*stitutes, escorts - whatever you like)

        The first client i got was actually an escort agency, they wanted sites for all their 16 ladies - from that point the word spread in no time.
        That's a really good niche you have going for you. Good job! I'm thinking about offering that to a few small businesses around my area. For me, I'm thinking about hobby shops. The problem is whether or not they are willing to foot $30/month or anything close to that. We'll see, because I have pretty good relationships with those retailers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Hackbridge
      Originally Posted by william.jack38 View Post

      Hey bryns, done a good job. But what the reason for hiding your niche? Its a mouth publicity so no one can eat your money. Please share with us.
      How many times have we read about people having their niches stolen? I can't believe that you should even ask!?

      Brian
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    My question is if you started the business one week before your
    original post and got 27 customers in that week what could you
    possibly have done that was of any real value other than putting
    a website on a hosting account?

    Are they expected to promote it themselves? How would you
    have time to do what is necessary for good search engine results
    for all 27 in one week? That's a lot of work.

    I'm not trying to be negative about your success but call me
    skeptical about the real value to the customer.

    Tsnyder
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    • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      what could youpossibly have done that was of any real value other than putting a website on a hosting account?
      I did just that, plus the design expertise (when it comes to that niche) i offered was enough to convice my potential clients.

      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      Are they expected to promote it themselves?
      they promote it themselves, and they already knew how to do it. Just they didn't have a site they *could* promote.
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      • Profile picture of the author J smith
        This one time I decided to do somethign similar (was a similar thread/idea a bit ago on wf) Where I'd offer a free .com name + free wp theme design (artisteer =p) and 4-5 pages of content (clients provide text) Put up some tutorials to explain/show clients how to update their wp site. All that for a pathetic 10$/month (but the idea here is that at 3 clients per day after a year I'd have 1,000 clients making me around 10k in fairly passive income)

        So, all enttusiastic I got to a real estate office (where I work) and offer it to about 10-15 agents there to gouge the respones.. Well, I almost got half a response! (something along the lines of "I am thinking about it") lol, anyone wants to tell me what I was doing wrong? Granted I should've probably said I'll charge 100$ a month and 500$ set up fee, but act now and the set up fee will only be 250$!

        But still, anyone wants t guess what went wrong? (other than the average age of an agent in my office being 45-50)
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        • Profile picture of the author MarkR
          J Smith,

          I can't say for sure where you went wrong. But my thought is that a bunch of broke real estate agents, that usually have broker-funded sites already, that haven't been able to sell houses in a long time wasn't the best place to start. The real estate market has been brutal for a year or two, at least in my area. The only three "collections" issues I've ever had (that most people don't talk about) with my offline web design business are all three real estate related, and all recent. That's the one market I won't do business with anymore unless I get 100% upfront.

          I would try another market that is in better shape, that doesn't require constant modifications (houses sold, listed, off-market, etc.). Restaurants, doctors, plumbers, chiropractors, electricians and other businesses that people can't (or won't) do themselves and are a necessity in life are maybe a better way to go! Try it and see.

          Mark
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        • Profile picture of the author T.R. McCarroll
          Originally Posted by J smith View Post

          This one time I decided to do somethign similar (was a similar thread/idea a bit ago on wf) Where I'd offer a free .com name + free wp theme design (artisteer =p) and 4-5 pages of content (clients provide text) Put up some tutorials to explain/show clients how to update their wp site. All that for a pathetic 10$/month (but the idea here is that at 3 clients per day after a year I'd have 1,000 clients making me around 10k in fairly passive income)

          So, all enttusiastic I got to a real estate office (where I work) and offer it to about 10-15 agents there to gouge the respones.. Well, I almost got half a response! (something along the lines of "I am thinking about it") lol, anyone wants to tell me what I was doing wrong? Granted I should've probably said I'll charge 100$ a month and 500$ set up fee, but act now and the set up fee will only be 250$!

          But still, anyone wants t guess what went wrong? (other than the average age of an agent in my office being 45-50)
          I think you needed to sell them on the benefits of getting a website including the exposure of course, but the fact they can cut back on their print advertising (saving cash), their website is exclusive to them, they have the opportunity on their very own website to offer referral fee(s), if legal in your area, etc.... BENEFITS.. go after the movers and shakers in your company, once they are talking about your service the others will follow... real estate agents don't like to get trumped.

          Thom
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    • Profile picture of the author Glenn Leader
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post


      %< snipped

      I'm not trying to be negative about your success but call me
      skeptical about the real value to the customer.

      Tsnyder
      One thing the OP can do is put a front end on his sites and create a
      directory for his city/niche, and then promote that. A blog would be
      a simple solution, and would work well for this application.



      Glenn
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    • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
      Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

      My question is if you started the business one week before your original post and got 27 customers in that week what could you possibly have done that was of any real value other than putting
      a website on a hosting account?

      Are they expected to promote it themselves? How would you
      have time to do what is necessary for good search engine results
      for all 27 in one week? That's a lot of work.

      I'm not trying to be negative about your success but call me
      skeptical about the real value to the customer.

      Tsnyder
      Any real value to WHO? Hey - this is 2009. If a business isn't on the internet, it's because they don't know how and they don't have any employees that know how. If the did or had, they'd be there.

      This gets them ON the net, and opens up the door for a LOT of added-value services like content development, SEO, marketing...

      And remember - just like the old guy who charges $500 to hit the broken machine in the right spot, it's not only time that is being exchanged for value here - it's KNOWLEDGE.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
        Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

        Any real value to WHO? Hey - this is 2009. If a business isn't on the internet, it's because they don't know how and they don't have any employees that know how. If the did or had, they'd be there.

        This gets them ON the net, and opens up the door for a LOT of added-value services like content development, SEO, marketing...

        And remember - just like the old guy who charges $500 to hit the broken machine in the right spot, it's not only time that is being exchanged for value here - it's KNOWLEDGE.
        With all due respect being on the internet is akin to having a pamphlet on
        file in the Library of Congress. You know it's there but unless you tell someone
        its exact location they'll probably never see it.

        The value of having a website isn't in just being on the 'net. The value of
        a website is no different than the value of any other form of advertising. It's
        measured in dollars spent by actual customers who purchased your goods and
        services as a direct result of your advertising.

        If the client doesn't know how to drive targeted traffic to their site they
        are wasting their advertising budget regardless of how much knowledge you
        may possess... your knowledge alone doesn't bring them real customers. That
        requires work... and that's a lot of work to do for 27 clients in one week.

        Tsnyder
        Signature
        If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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        • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
          Originally Posted by Tsnyder View Post

          With all due respect being on the internet is akin to having a pamphlet on
          file in the Library of Congress. You know it's there but unless you tell someone
          its exact location they'll probably never see it.

          The value of having a website isn't in just being on the 'net. The value of
          a website is no different than the value of any other form of advertising. It's
          measured in dollars spent by actual customers who purchased your goods and
          services as a direct result of your advertising.

          If the client doesn't know how to drive targeted traffic to their site they
          are wasting their advertising budget regardless of how much knowledge you
          may possess... your knowledge alone doesn't bring them real customers. That
          requires work... and that's a lot of work to do for 27 clients in one week.

          Tsnyder
          I completely agree with you.. but in this special case, my clients know how to promote their sites: they are handing out biz cards, they rely on word of mouth, they announce their services in special online directories - having an own website adds a lot of value to their profile..
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Congratulations, you just invented a web development company (which incidently is a pretty old business model).

    You'll soon find that your $360 a year client that gets a free site in exchange for expensive hosting will ultimately turn into $2500 in overhead.

    You're goint to have to figure out how you're going to afford all the changes they are going to want to make to the website on an ongoing basis, track your hourly work and connect that with accounting so you can get billed accordingly, and then deal with all the issues when they figure out that they can use a whole plethora of free sitebuilder tools with much cheaper hosting and demand to get out of the deal with you - suing your on the same basis of a health club where you cannot force someone to pay for services that they don't use in the future.

    I think it's amusing how a bunch of IM guys are freaking out over a very old business model that was invented 15 years ago... and trying to rush to the table and compete in a very mature market. I mean, it's great that everyone is out rustling up local business -- but the path is littered with landmines. It's not the autopilot nirvana that IM'ers dream about with money coming in while you sleep.

    It's a lot, lot, lot of ongoing, hard work.

    I started a web development company in 1994 and sold it in 1999 to a large publishing firm.

    Yes, ExRat, I am talking about my experience again, because I have it. ;-)
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    • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      You're goint to have to figure out how you're going to afford all the changes they are going to want (...)
      I can't stress this enough - in this niche it's pretty much set up and forget.
      It's not that they need a completely new site each and every month. Believe me, i made my homework regarding this niche.
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      • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
        Originally Posted by ChrisByrns View Post

        I can't stress this enough - in this niche it's pretty much set up and forget.
        It's not that they need a completely new site each and every month. Believe me, i made my homework regarding this niche.
        Yeah, I guess that hookers don't really need to keep their profiles updated. I can't imagine any of them actually getting any better looking over time, or dropping STDs off the roster.

        :p
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        • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
          Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

          Yeah, I guess that hookers don't really need to keep their profiles updated. I can't imagine any of them actually getting any better looking over time, or dropping STDs off the roster.

          :p
          Well, my clients aren't those trailer park, redneck, std-ridden, cheap ass kind of h*es. They are business women with class and style (and more money than the average IM'er).
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          • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
            Originally Posted by ChrisByrns View Post

            Well, my clients aren't those trailer park, redneck, std-ridden, cheap ass kind of h*es. They are business women with class and style (and more money than the average IM'er).
            The smileys were to indicate joking. I missed your niche disclosure in your later post.

            If you're a single guy, maybe you could work out some trade.


            ^
            |
            |
            This is another smiley face to indicate my jesting.
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            • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
              Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

              The smileys were to indicate joking. I missed your niche disclosure in your later post.
              Oh.. ohhh, i got that now!

              @Jsmith:
              People are generally hesistant when you offer them some kind of service. In my case.. i had the idea, created my site and was looking for an opportunity - but wasn't pushing it. Then (surprisingly on the same day my site went live - pure coincidence), i saw an online advert "We need websites for our girls - contact info: xxxx(at)xxxxxxx.xx". I hit 'em up, described my services and the rest is history.
              Later that week, i got orders from all around the country and when i asked from where they got my url, they replied "i just phoned with a buddy and she showed me her new website".

              Cheers,
              Chris.
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          • Profile picture of the author GeorgeO7
            I basically do an inversion of this process.

            I give away the first year web hosting on my dedicated server. Each client gets their own unique IP address.

            I then sell a well crafted, targeted website, fully optimized for their local keywords that really works and brings them new business.

            My fee is only $2500 - $6000 + ongoing maintenance fees of $50 - $500 per month.

            I do offer a guarantee that IF their website fails to double their investment over the course of one year, that I will refund their purchase in full and take the site off line.

            I've never had to refund a client, they all renew their web hosting and continue some sort of maintenance agreement to ensure the on-going success of their website.

            My clients DOMINATE their local market and refer their business friends. I never have to advertise other than my website which also DOMINATES the SERPS for my keywords.

            Some keys to success:

            Do what your promise.
            Provide excellent and timely service.
            Exceed their expectations.
            Get them new business.
            Do ask for referrals.

            George
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            • Profile picture of the author MarkR
              George,

              That sounds great! But how do you document the real value/revenue your site brought in over the first year or any time frame? How do you track that?

              If a client challenged you to say your site didn't bring in double the value, what do you show them? It's got to be more directly related to revenue than just "the number of unique visitors" the site pulled in.

              Thanks!

              Mark
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              • Profile picture of the author GeorgeO7
                Originally Posted by MarkR View Post

                George,

                That sounds great! But how do you document the real value/revenue your site brought in over the first year or any time frame? How do you track that?

                If a client challenged you to say your site didn't bring in double the value, what do you show them? It's got to be more directly related to revenue than just "the number of unique visitors" the site pulled in.

                Thanks!

                Mark
                The offline business is about relationships. Working with the client and fine tuning their websites. After 3 months, I review their accrued Google Analytics with them and make suggestions to improve performance. If the website were not pulling it's load... I would know and hear about it.

                I get great feedback from my clients about how well the site is working... how it eased their load of information disemantion... client stories from them as to how they were found on the web, etc..

                This works for me... and for them. As I said previously, I can just take it offline. No One has ever requested that. After one year, I am off the hook.

                The bottom line is that it works for them and they are happy.

                George
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          • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
            There's something missing from the strategy you mention in your original post...

            Helping the businesses you work make real sales and profits.

            You certainly can make good money charging business owners fees to put up a website for them.

            And you can charge a WHOLE lot more than what you're charging at the moment.

            Web designers have been making a living doing things this way for years.

            But if you're not helping businesses make real profits over what they pay you it's a rip off regardless of what your fees are.

            Put another way if I charge a business $300 a year for a website and that business makes 0 profits from the website I just ripped them off for $300.

            On the other hand if I charge a business $5,000 to implement an internet marketing strategy and that business makes $10,000 in profits from it I just did them a tremendous service and the owner is likely to hire me over and over even at this multi thousand dollar fee.

            As a Warrior you need to act with integrity and make sure you're genuinely helping the business owners you work with...not just lining your own pockets.

            Kindest regards,
            Andrew Cavanagh
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            • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
              Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

              (...)
              But if you're not helping businesses make real profits over what they pay you it's a rip off regardless of what your fees are.(...)
              I'm talkin' about MY niche, Andrew. My clients get MORE profits - they advertise their services on forums, directories, etc already and having a website adds value to their biz. Consider this:

              ------------------------------------------------------
              Name: Iris
              Contact: xxxxx (at) blahblah (dot) com

              OR:

              Name: Iris
              More info on my homepage at: iris-xxxxxx (dot) com
              ------------------------------------------------------

              While i respect you for being a "top notch" warrior, please don't come across implying i rip off people - that's simply not the case.



              Kindest Regards,
              Chris Byrns.
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              • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
                Originally Posted by ChrisByrns View Post

                I'm talkin' about MY niche, Andrew. My clients get MORE profits - they advertise their services on forums, directories, etc already and having a website adds value to their biz. Consider this:

                ------------------------------------------------------
                Name: Iris
                Contact: xxxxx (at) blahblah (dot) com

                OR:

                Name: Iris
                More info on my homepage at: iris-xxxxxx (dot) com
                ------------------------------------------------------

                While i respect you for being a "top notch" warrior, please don't come across implying i rip off people - that's simply not the case.



                Kindest Regards,
                Chris Byrns.

                I'm not implying that you're ripping off people.

                What I"m saying is that your post is imcomplete because it leaves out that crucial piece of information...how you help the business owners you work with make real sales and profits.

                What I want to know is what you do to ensure your clients make more profits than they pay you in fees.

                It's not meant to be taken as an attack...just asking for more information and trying to remind people that getting hired is only part of the equation when you work with business owners.

                You also need to focus on getting them real results.

                Kindest regards,
                Andrew Cavanagh
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                • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
                  Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

                  (...) just asking for more information and trying to remind people that getting hired is only part of the equation when you work with business owners.

                  You also need to focus on getting them real results.

                  Kindest regards,
                  Andrew Cavanagh
                  THAT is correct! You have to provide a SERVICE.. in my case the clients won't even need SE optimization and all that, just having a site gets them 3+ more clients a week (they told me) because their offer looks more "professional".
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          • Profile picture of the author robertseo
            Cool idea thanks!
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          • Profile picture of the author Spotted_Doe
            I can vouch for the fact that the Local Biz Builders Forum is THE place to get the best offline info. I've been a member for over a year and visit daily.

            LocalBizBuilders - Powered by vBulletin
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert_Rand
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      Congratulations, you just invented a web development company (which incidently is a pretty old business model).

      You'll soon find that your $360 a year client that gets a free site in exchange for expensive hosting will ultimately turn into $2500 in overhead.

      You're goint to have to figure out how you're going to afford all the changes they are going to want to make to the website on an ongoing basis, track your hourly work and connect that with accounting so you can get billed accordingly, and then deal with all the issues when they figure out that they can use a whole plethora of free sitebuilder tools with much cheaper hosting and demand to get out of the deal with you - suing your on the same basis of a health club where you cannot force someone to pay for services that they don't use in the future.

      I think it's amusing how a bunch of IM guys are freaking out over a very old business model that was invented 15 years ago... and trying to rush to the table and compete in a very mature market. I mean, it's great that everyone is out rustling up local business -- but the path is littered with landmines. It's not the autopilot nirvana that IM'ers dream about with money coming in while you sleep.

      It's a lot, lot, lot of ongoing, hard work.

      I started a web development company in 1994 and sold it in 1999 to a large publishing firm.

      Yes, ExRat, I am talking about my experience again, because I have it. ;-)
      Funny, I think it's the exact opposite.

      Considering well over 1/2 of business owners still don't have a website and a big % of the rest need help I think the industry is still in it's infancy.

      Hard work? Maybe if you choose to not to outsource.

      The truth though, is that even though you'll have plenty of pain in the ass clients... you'll rarely hear from most of them.

      Just like most people who stop going to the gym... They continue paying - automatically.
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      • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
        Originally Posted by Robert_Rand View Post

        (...)
        The truth though, is that even though you'll have plenty of pain in the ass clients... you'll rarely hear from most of them.
        Just like most people who stop going to the gym... They continue paying - automatically.
        Exactly! With restaurants (e.g.) you'll have a lot of work, updating the sites.. On the other hand, with.. say.. nail art studios.. the only updating you'll have to do is change the prices once every six months - or upload a new batch of photos.. All this can be done in 10 minutes.
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        • Profile picture of the author MarkR
          The value of having a website isn't in just being on the 'net.
          Spoken like someone who's been in this offline local business game for a while! Great insight.

          Exactly. Any business owner that has his act together should be justifying every marketing dollar he/she spends. It's only good business.

          Armed with just 2-3 case studies of successful websites you've built for local businesses gives you more than enough credibility to sell the heck out of this kind of service over and over again. Being able to say that you have an average annual return on investment of 400% or 1,300% or whatever it is, is music to a smart business owner's ears.

          You'd be surprised how many small businesses just pay $100's a month to Yellow Pages or the phone company or whoever to "manage their Internet advertising" and get way less value that most IMrs can provide for less money.

          This offline, local business opportunity is and has been a goldmine. I continue to struggle to build a process whereby I can prove/document the hard dollar value of my sites. With the social proof of the incredible ROI, selling to local businesses becomes just taking orders!

          I'm still open to hearing workable ideas. Bring 'em on!

          Mark
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          • Profile picture of the author chrisnegro
            Originally Posted by MarkR View Post


            You'd be surprised how many small businesses just pay $100's a month to Yellow Pages or the phone company or whoever to "manage their Internet advertising" and get way less value that most IMrs can provide for less money.
            Mark:

            Something to consider (and chew on) is the Yellow Page advertising does bring "known traffic" that brings business to the business owner. What Chris is suggesting is offering hosting and updating their website which does not bring "known traffic" to their website. There is a difference here in my opinion. One brings traffic....the method Chris is suggesting does not bring traffic ---unless their is an add on package later on.
            Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
      Amen to this post, Michael. The sad part: most people won't realize how much work this involves in the long run with some markets until they're neck-deep in change requests. And get ready for the backlash when you try to bill for site changes after building the site for free. :rolleyes:

      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      You'll soon find that your $360 a year client that gets a free site in exchange for expensive hosting will ultimately turn into $2500 in overhead.
      Signature

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      • Profile picture of the author MarkR
        BlueSquares,

        Good point, and one to be careful with.

        That is certainly a consideration, but I think a properly built contract/agreement that specifies no further modifications are done without additional fees, can solve that problem easily. Or offer a "Gold Plan" and raise the monthly price and state that the monthly fee includes X hours of site maintenance, if needed (no carry over month to month) and you're covered.

        Change requests can be performed by anyone with the knowledge if you don't want to play that game. And you could consider the change requests another source of recurring revenue if you wanted to participate.

        So, if handled properly upfront, I see the change requests/overhead as an opportunity, not a challenge. Just clearly articulate what the customer gets and doesn't for $0, and specify the charges for modifications up-front and you'll save a lot of headaches.

        Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author Phil Spinelli
    They are business women with class
    you mean
    ass
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  • Profile picture of the author jamesdj1
    Amazing how this decent thread went from Marketing to sticking up for hookers. LOL

    Chris congrats for taking action and on the success you are having regardless of the niche.

    There's another marketing lesson found in this thread from RDG who posted...

    IM Leadership

    Saw it like 5 times already, just can't take it out of my mind... will find the way out eventually... lol

    RDG
    Howie's showing exactly how you can create another stream of profit by simply "repositioning content you already have or own" using it for what is now another hot market topic... "taking your marketing skills offline".

    He's not really talking or teaching about anything really new or different from what he's been the past two years...just positioned it differently.
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    • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
      Originally Posted by jamesdj1 View Post

      Amazing how this decent thread went from Marketing to sticking up for hookers. LOL
      Hey, i didn't want to share my niche - I only did because i didn't feel like replying the same to all the pm's i got.



      Originally Posted by jamesdj1 View Post

      Chris congrats for taking action and on the success you are having regardless of the niche.
      Thanks, man!
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  • Profile picture of the author msoon2k
    very nice idea
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
    I recently took this a bit further, in order to convince the customers that are undecided whether they should use my service:

    Since my potential clients are not too internet-savvy, i offer a free "check out my services" package.. I basically design their site for free and put it up on a temp url (myservice.com/clientxxx/xxxxxxblah_previewarea_xxxx/preview.html).

    When they see the result, they usually want me to register a domain and finalize the site.

    Of course, i wouldn't advise you to do this if your service caters to a niche that know's how to rip a design and then just gets some cheap hosting.

    But as a designer you should know how to protect yourself - one tip to protect your works is (i used it before and i won a lawsuit with this):

    Take a screencapture of the site you created for your client, print it out, put it into an envelope and mail this letter to yourself. Do this on the very same day you created it. When you get it, put it into a safe, don't open it. The postmark makes it an official document. Just in case you're suing someone, pull this envelope out and open it.. the defending party will have a hard time explaining why you have a screencap of their site, dating from before their domain was registered.
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    • Profile picture of the author MarkR
      Chris,

      You touched on something I was going to post. You could always give the potential customer a screen capture of the page(s) you designed, so they can't rip off the HTML for it. Depends on how paranoid you are and the niche you're into.

      Also, on another topic, I struggle to find a nearly foolproof way to quantify the value local businesses are getting from the sites I create. I can't just say "look, you got 487 visitors this month". That's not real revenue to a local business owner. I need to say "look, you sold 7 deals, worth $1,387.00 this month - all from leads from my $120/month website".

      I thought of having a coupon on the site, that visitors can bring in and get a discount, or get a free something, and then track the number of coupons. How do you create a tracking system that you can tie actual business sold dollars to the value of the site? I'm not talking about email marketing here, just tracking website visitors that turn into real incremental business.

      And no, I don't want to interview hookers, etc.

      I mean a real provable system for tracking value of a site for an offline business. i.e. how many more meals at a restaurant? How many loads of laundry for a dry cleaner? How many more mortgages for a mortgage broker?

      Mark
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      • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
        Originally Posted by MarkR View Post

        Chris,

        You touched on something I was going to post. You could always give the potential customer a screen capture of the page(s) you designed, so they can't rip off the HTML for it. Depends on how paranoid you are and the niche you're into.
        That's of course the most simple solution to this, but you can't show the "functionality" of the site this way.
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        • Profile picture of the author chrisnegro
          Originally Posted by ChrisByrns View Post

          That's of course the most simple solution to this, but you can't show the "functionality" of the site this way.
          Do a Camtasia Video of the site and try blurring out the url (if possible) or create the video size box small enough where they can't see the URL (just brainstorming for you).

          Cheers,

          Chris Negro
          Signature

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      • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
        Originally Posted by MarkR View Post


        (...) just tracking website visitors that turn into real incremental business.

        I mean a real provable system for tracking value of a site for an offline business. i.e. how many more meals at a restaurant? How many loads of laundry for a dry cleaner? How many more mortgages for a mortgage broker?

        Mark
        Well, that's something i've been thinking about a lot lately - You could *perhaps* create a website with just ONE special offer.. or with all the offers renamed (not the usual "menu 1", but
        "special xxx") ..when the client walks in and enquires about that offer, the business owner knows that the customer has seen the website.

        Or, you tell the biz owner to get a seperate phone # which is listed only on the site.
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  • Profile picture of the author stsnelson
    Chris,

    Great job. Keep doing what you're doing and within a years time come back and let us know how things turn out.

    I target a different market and I do not make any changes to the sites once up except changing a phone number or picture. It's pretty much a set it up and leave it type of site.

    It's not new but it works when you fully understand your target market.
    Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
      Originally Posted by stsnelson View Post

      Chris,

      Great job. Keep doing what you're doing and within a years time come back and let us know how things turn out. (...)
      Thanks! ..And i definitely will share my story in a year. (Let's hope it will still be a success-story =)
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  • Profile picture of the author chrisnegro
    Warriors:

    This has gotten me thinking of how to nail down a niche where there would be "low maintenance" of updating website content. Any thoughts on some niches that are low maintenance outside of the "professional ladies" niche?

    This should be an interesting twist to the thread !

    Chris Negro
    Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author MarkR
      Chris,

      I'm thinking the same way!

      From my view, medical professionals, whether they be doctors, chiropractors, podiatrists, orthopedic surgeons, allergists, etc. would be great places to target. They don't change their service offerings, or their locations, or their prices, or much of anything else. They have money, and are historically very poor marketers.

      I'm thinking most people have a family doctor and/or a pediatric doctor (i.e. won't be searching Google for one). But most don't have a regular chiropractor or a regular orthopedic surgeon or a family podiatrist or an allergist, and may look to Google for locations / doctors close by, which will help bring in leads for these types of doctors. Your thoughts?

      Mark
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      • Profile picture of the author chrisnegro
        Originally Posted by MarkR View Post

        Chris,

        I'm thinking the same way!

        From my view, medical professionals, whether they be doctors, chiropractors, podiatrists, orthopedic surgeons, allergists, etc. would be great places to target. They don't change their service offerings, or their locations, or their prices, or much of anything else. They have money, and are historically very poor marketers.

        I'm thinking most people have a family doctor and/or a pediatric doctor (i.e. won't be searching Google for one). But most don't have a regular chiropractor or a regular orthopedic surgeon or a family podiatrist or an allergist, and may look to Google for locations / doctors close by, which will help bring in leads for these types of doctors. Your thoughts?

        Mark
        Actually...nice tips Mark...they make total sense! Many thanks for your thorough response!


        Chris Negro
        Signature

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      • Profile picture of the author xlfutur1
        Originally Posted by MarkR View Post

        Chris,

        I'm thinking the same way!

        From my view, medical professionals, whether they be doctors, chiropractors, podiatrists, orthopedic surgeons, allergists, etc. would be great places to target. They don't change their service offerings, or their locations, or their prices, or much of anything else. They have money, and are historically very poor marketers.

        I'm thinking most people have a family doctor and/or a pediatric doctor (i.e. won't be searching Google for one). But most don't have a regular chiropractor or a regular orthopedic surgeon or a family podiatrist or an allergist, and may look to Google for locations / doctors close by, which will help bring in leads for these types of doctors. Your thoughts?

        Mark
        Medical professionals is a good niche. I've checked domains of all the towns in my area and almost all the domains (ex. www.citynamedentist.com) are not taken. I use jon leger's webcompanalyst to see how hard it would be to rank in the top 3 and its a joke. some of the top spots have only a couple of links pointing to their sites.

        There are plenty of dentists that don't have sites, and putting up a quick 5-8 page wordpress site with contact form (cforms) wouldn't take long at all. You could just do one for them, charge them $27 bucks a month for hosting, then tell them that you can get them ranked number 1-3 but to do that would be alot of extra work and that would be $100 per month (or more) as soon as that happened. There are lots of ways to work in the back end stuff.
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        • Profile picture of the author MarkR
          xlfutur1,


          I agree. Medical can be great. But it pays to be picky about what type of doctor.

          My only disagreement is the choice of "dentists". My contention is that most people already have a preferred dentist (except new families moving to the area) and therefor won't search Google for a dentist. Most people see a dentist at a young age and stick with them if they like them, until they move.

          Whereas, most people don't have a regular, long-standing relationship with a chiropractor, or a podiatrist. Those are generally one-time problems (car accident, sports injury, foot injury, etc.) being solved. Therefore, many more people will use Google to find a local office for those types of situations. I think focusing on a business that people haven't been doing business with for many years is a better long-term strategy. i.e. I've used the same dry cleaner, dentist, family doctor, and grocery store for many years. But when I need a plumber, a podiatrist, a roofer, or a landscaper, I go to Google to find options in my city. See the difference? Make sense? I hope I'm not all wet!

          Mark
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          • Profile picture of the author xlfutur1
            Originally Posted by MarkR View Post

            xlfutur1,


            I agree. Medical can be great. But it pays to be picky about what type of doctor.

            My only disagreement is the choice of "dentists". My contention is that most people already have a preferred dentist (except new families moving to the area) and therefor won't search Google for a dentist. Most people see a dentist at a young age and stick with them if they like them, until they move.

            Whereas, most people don't have a regular, long-standing relationship with a chiropractor, or a podiatrist. Those are generally one-time problems (car accident, sports injury, foot injury, etc.) being solved. Therefore, many more people will use Google to find a local office for those types of situations. I think focusing on a business that people haven't been doing business with for many years is a better long-term strategy. i.e. I've used the same dry cleaner, dentist, family doctor, and grocery store for many years. But when I need a plumber, a podiatrist, a roofer, or a landscaper, I go to Google to find options in my city. See the difference? Make sense? I hope I'm not all wet!

            Mark
            I understand, and there are many people that already have a dentist, but searches are still done for a dentist in a certain area or town every month. I still see dental ads in newspapers, yellow pages and val pak so they do spend money on advertising to get new patients. Even if they get a word of mouth referral, people still tend to go to the internet to check out their webpage, and if they don't have one, it doesn't make them look very professional. I would guess that chiropractors, plumbers, roofers, podiatrists,etc would be just as good prospects. Its easy to see who has a website when you do a search, so its worth the time to research if you are going to go after this strategy.
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    • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
      Originally Posted by chrisnegro View Post

      Warriors:

      This has gotten me thinking of how to nail down a niche where there would be "low maintenance" of updating website content. Any thoughts on some niches that are low maintenance outside of the "professional ladies" niche?

      This should be an interesting twist to the thread !

      Chris Negro
      DJ's / Entertainers - I've done some sites for those kind of guys and the only updating i had to do in the past 2 years was 1) changing an address, 2) adding some lines of text to the discography-section, 3) changing a background color for one dude and 4) adding a link to a fansite.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jim Cockrum
    Brilliant strategy Chris - thanks for sharing. Interested in a membership at OfflineBiz.com? PM me if you are.
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  • Profile picture of the author stevenh512
    I actually had a similar idea a while back.. won't reveal my niche, but let's just say my brother and I both know a lot of people who would be interested if the price is right.

    I wouldn't use a cheap "shared" reseller account though, my plan involves either a dedicated server or a VPS.. and rather than offering custom design services, I'd be offering a preinstalled CMS (I'm thinking Joomla). Price would probably be a lot lower than what you're offering considering my niche, but 2 or 3 customers would more than cover my costs and everything else would be pure profit.
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    • Profile picture of the author chrisnegro
      Originally Posted by healymedia View Post

      Definitely not a new concept at all, but definitely one that can bring in big money.

      For reference, check out this site:
      martialartsites.com

      My brother knows a guy who's site is run by these guys and its almost sad how much he pays to get essentially nothing but hosting. Changes are almost never made.

      Check out the price structure of what these guys offer, then do a google search of martialartsites.com (every site they host has their link in the bottom corner) and take a look at just how many martial arts schools use this service.

      You won't need to be a mathematician to figure out how much these guys make to provide a templated site and hosting.

      How do you get the Wizard Software Program so you can offer this to your clients in a specific niche? If there was a Wizard Script or Software to do this....this would be powerful

      Thoughts?

      Chris Negro
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      • Profile picture of the author Glenn Leader
        Originally Posted by chrisnegro View Post

        How do you get the Wizard Software Program so you can offer this to your clients in a specific niche? If there was a Wizard Script or Software to do this....this would be powerful

        Thoughts?

        Chris Negro
        Hi Chris,

        I do have a very simple system for achieving something like this, and once
        my videos have been recorded, I plan to offer as a inexpensive WSO as
        payback to this wonderful forum...It will probably be the week after next
        before I get the time to complete this work...But I warn you, the system is
        very simple indeed... a lot of people will kick themselves when they see it's
        simplicity and ease.

        HTH

        Glenn
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        • Profile picture of the author Hackbridge
          That sounds awesome! I'd love to see the videos when they're done. I approached a business today. I know that they don't have a website and have been wanting to get my foot in their door for sometime.

          Brian
          Originally Posted by Glenn Leader View Post

          Hi Chris,

          I do have a very simple system for achieving something like this, and once
          my videos have been recorded, I plan to offer as a free WSO as payback
          to this wonderful forum...It will probably be the week after next before I
          get the time to complete this work...But I warn you, the system is very
          simple indeed... a lot of people will kick themselves when they see it's
          simplicity and ease.

          HTH

          Glenn
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        • Profile picture of the author chrisnegro
          Originally Posted by Glenn Leader View Post

          Hi Chris,

          I do have a very simple system for achieving something like this, and once
          my videos have been recorded, I plan to offer as a free WSO as payback
          to this wonderful forum...It will probably be the week after next before I
          get the time to complete this work...But I warn you, the system is very
          simple indeed... a lot of people will kick themselves when they see it's
          simplicity and ease.

          HTH

          Glenn
          Thanks Glenn.....would love to hear more about this system you have.

          Cheers,

          Chris Negro
          Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author billionareHuman
    $810 per month to manage 27 clients? I'm sure they're not all calling you for changes/updates/help at the same month but if half of them are, that's quite a lot of time for $810 per month.
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  • Profile picture of the author ryansjones
    That kind of reminds me a bit of Global Domains International. They too have an interesting type of system, where you can get a web hosting plan through them as well as take advantage of their 5 tiered affiliate program where you can refer others to the company and get commissions for whatever web hosting plan they get through the company. I've only gotten 2 sign ups so far though (though I have gotten at least 40 different leads since joining), though part of the reason of my low performance there is that I have been focusing much of my efforts of putting my websites together, so that might change once my websites are complete and have an autoresponder system in place (possibly either with traffic wave or aweber) to follow up with leads.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adaptive
    [DELETED]
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  • Profile picture of the author Adaptive
    Chris, let's take this to private messaging. Can you please delete your post and I'll delete mine.

    Regards,
    Allen
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    • Profile picture of the author chrisnegro
      Originally Posted by Adaptive View Post

      Chris, let's take this to private messaging. Can you please delete your post and I'll delete mine.

      Regards,
      Allen
      Done......
      Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author Glenn Leader
    Originally Posted by majidmaskat View Post

    well done chriss, but we internet marketers are not so familar with offline things, except postcards....
    Then you should do a lot more reading around this forum. There's tons of good info for offline biz.

    Glenn
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
    Another niche that won't need a lot of maintenance would be beauty salons / nail art studios.. you set 'em up once with a custom wordpress design (cms style) and the only thing you'll have to do once in a while is upload some new images. Or add a news-item when they run a special offer.. when you have a good setup, this can be done in five minutes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Phil Spinelli
    I'm still lost as why someone would build a site for a professional service industry for FREE and charge like $30 bucks per months for hosting?

    These people make good money, charge em more money.
    And provide a top notch professional service.

    If you're an electrician in a lower income area you may charge $50 bucks an hour for service. In an upper income area you may charge $200 per hours (for the same job)

    I guess it's the mental attitude and self worth thing.
    People who feel like they are worth more money charge more money.
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    • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
      Originally Posted by Phil Spinelli View Post

      I'm still lost as why someone would build a site for a professional service industry for FREE and charge like $30 bucks per months for hosting?
      Just because it takes me an hour or two to create a professional design (6 years of experience), i overdeliver and the word of mouth propaganda is off the hook. Plus, maintenance is next to none - when i started the thread i had 27 clients, now i have 49.. stop wondering and do the math.
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      • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
        Originally Posted by ChrisByrns View Post

        Just because it takes me an hour or two to create a professional design


        just to prove my point.. 5 mins of photoshop and them clients are HAPPY! ..plus another 20 mins of coding/adding content.

        Hey, no hard feelings, Phil! =)
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  • Profile picture of the author freudianslip27
    Hey Chris,

    Congrats on your fantastic results

    The only thing I would suggest here is for you to consider if you are underselling here. You are getting clients quickly and that's awesome, but what if you could have gotten 2/3rd's of them at a $60/month price point? You would have been making more and had less work to do.

    I think that the best money can be made with upsells though, and you've certainly put yourself in a position to do that

    Matt
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  • Profile picture of the author elitementor
    Hi Chris,

    Great Info you are sharing! I actually started doing something similar recently.
    My only challenge has been finding some designers/coders and even a
    webmaster I can depend on! I outsource everything since I don't do
    any of that. I have plenty of business that I can offer to designer/coder
    but no one I can really depend on. My customers depend on me, but my challenge
    is 1. putting together a dependable team and 2. Finding dependable designers/coders
    who won't price gouge in exchange for consistent work!

    Congrats to you and your success!
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  • Profile picture of the author greenovni
    Great idea... might implement it to the spanish market
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    • Hi,
      Can someone tell me how or where can I learn to create websites or website design? I would love to put this thread to the test, but I have no idea about web design, .
      Im going to do this if I can figure out the web design part, I will invest in a designated host!
      Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
      Will to pay for someone to walk me through this.
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      • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
        Originally Posted by exmark05@yahoo.com View Post

        Hi,
        Can someone tell me how or where can I learn to create websites or website design? I would love to put this thread to the test, but I have no idea about web design, .
        Im going to do this if I can figure out the web design part, I will invest in a designated host!
        Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
        Will to pay for someone to walk me through this.
        Unfortunately, REAL webdesign is not a thing you can learn in a minute or two. I will give you some background infos about me: i started drawing comics at the age of 4.. always was an artist, y'know ..in the early nineties i did commercial ANSI art for BBS's.. then, i did logos and graphics in the so-called "demo-scene". The program of choice was Deluxepaint back then. ..Then came the internet and i started using/learning photoshop and HTML, i never used dreamweaver or homesite - just good 'ole msedit.

        My advice would be.. get photoshop, learn how to use it. Or if you're on a budget, get GIMP. This may take some time - let's say 6 months.

        Then, get comfortable with wordpress themes, to the point that you can create your own theme. Do it and create a basic theme, consisting of a header, footer, background, menu elements, etc.

        When you're at this point.. you should have the routine to create a wordpress blog plus some custom graphics in no time.

        Being a REAL designer takes a lot more.. you have to have an eye for colors, layout, what works and what not, you need your own style, etc.. this usually can't be achieved in 6 months.
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  • Profile picture of the author chrisnegro
    I'm more interested in concentrating on one or two niches (instead of many right now) and build a kick **s website that I can wash, rince, repeat with other businesses (within that niche) and just change the name, contact information and pertinant details pertaining to that business.

    Anybody have a concrete plan or idea? I'm been discussin this with some people via PM but there doesn't seem to be a cookie cutter strategy or plan to get this done.

    Thoughts?

    Chris Negro
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
    just buy a multi domain license for a really good wp theme that fits that niche.
    then, just edit the header..
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    • Profile picture of the author chrisnegro
      Originally Posted by ChrisByrns View Post

      just buy a multi domain license for a really good wp theme that fits that niche.
      then, just edit the header..

      Do you recommend any? Is it better to use a Word Press Theme or get a hold of a Website Wizard that the business owner can use (or maybe you can use to prepare the website for your client).

      If you can answer this question (which one will be better and more efficient) I think we found the Holy Grail here -- interms of marketing buzz for your hosting angle.

      Thoughts?

      Chris Negro
      Signature

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      • This tread has got my head spinning with excitement!
        MarkR- thanks for the PM, I will be glad to use your affiliate link when the time comes!

        Ok, I was doing a little research on a particular business that does have a website that is managed by novator systems,
        I couldnt believe that this site didnt come up with some easy keywords for my area, I guess the SEO with novator systems sucks.

        My question is how much do you think that they are charging to manage and host a florist, this florist is involved interflora! I would imagine a good bit, ?
        Also, thoughts on if you think it is possible on taking over hosting and could i provide the same product (much better SEO) as novator systems?
        i really mean the e commerce and updating with specials, does anyone have experience with something like this

        Thanks
        Josh
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  • Profile picture of the author Galactus
    Originally Posted by ChrisByrns View Post

    I'll say only five words: Niche Hosting plus free Design.

    1) Get yourself a Reseller Account.

    2) Offer Hosting + domain registration at reasonable rates to niche customers (e.g.: offer it only to dentists or restaurant owners or whatever).

    3) charge 'em like $29.95/month for hosting + maintenance and give 'em a custom design for FREE as an incentive to sign up (24 month hosting contract). You could even outsource the whole design part.

    THING IS: Those business owners, they ALL know each other.. one restaurant owner meets another one.. they talk about websites.. restaurant owner A says: "look at my new homepage".. restaurant owner B replies "wow, who did that?".. SHABANG! You get a new customer.

    It's all about word-of-mouth propaganda.

    I started a new venture last week and i already have 27 customers, each paying about 30 bucks per month (But i won't tell you my niche, LOL )


    Cheerz,
    Chris.
    Now why dont we all think that way ! well done!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jon Alexander
    I actually think this is a neat idea. My only worry is that as it becomes more pervasive, prices attainable will drop.
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  • Profile picture of the author jameshax
    Chris,
    sounds like a good idea. I wish there was no competition though. Where I am from, there is a huge amount of competition in hosting and web page design etc. I got a friend doing EXACTLY this, but all I hear from him is complaining.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnSpangler
    There is actually a ton of great info sprinkled throughout a number of forums including WF.

    If you just did a quick search through the WF using the term offline you'd have more than enough material to be super successful but you need to take ACTION.

    Since reading Andrew's original offline post on getting off your backside and just start talking to business owners, I started working offline in August of 2008 I now have over 40 clients and have increased my rates to over $2000/mo.

    I started a coaching program and private consulting business all from the knowledge I gained right here in this forum.

    Now the easy part was the learning the hard part was getting up the courage to talk to a business owner.

    But after my first few interviews with business owners I survived and actually learned quite a bit from talking to them about their business.

    I learned to ask better questions and by asking better questions the business owner feels I am "in tune" with THEIR business.

    An inherent trust is established because I am more interested in how I may help them than I am how much can I make off this person.

    Provide the results for the customer and the rewards follow but NOTHING happens unless you take action.

    To your success,
    John
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  • Profile picture of the author Terri LC
    all I know is because people know I'm into online business ventures and understand how marketing works, EVERYONE keeps asking me to suggest a good webmaster, everyone wants a simple website (poet, make-your-own babyfood, dentist, and a bunch of non-profits/members of my org I work for) it's crazy....they don't have a clue of where to start!
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    • Profile picture of the author Keith Boisvert
      Well, my clients aren't those trailer park, redneck, std-ridden, cheap ass kind of h*es. They are business women with class and style (and more money than the average IM'e
      ....Because we all know the trailer park hoes don't need full blown websites, a small Google maps listing will do just fine. Dude, you are missing the boat! You are leaving an untapped market behind!(ok, it is well tapped, but not really marketed to)

      Redneck trailer park hoes are people too! And what about the midget hookers? Everyone just overlooks them...


      Keith
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  • Profile picture of the author lilydab
    Good luck with your venture.As long as it works for you thats all that matters!
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  • Profile picture of the author dndoseller
    Some businesses will pay thousands of dollars just to have a site made. The vast majority of corporate America has no idea that you can manipulate how sites get listed in Google. They barely know about Adwords. Maybe 1 person in the company runs a campaign and knows anything.

    I know, I have been a Webmaster in large corporations since 94. Most have done absolutely nothing to promote their Web site. It just gets traffic naturally as part of the business process.

    People are way too knowledgeable and savvy on this forum for their own good. In general folks here think potential customers know way more than they actually do. We are on the Internet all day everyday dealing with web-based businesses and we assume too much.

    I work in an international company right now with hundreds of millions in revenue and there is even a rampant lack of basic computer skills. All the super tech-savvy firms get the attention in the news and we buy from them online. But there are still millions if not billions of people who have problems finding a document they saved "somewhere" on their PC. In fact there are billions of people out there in the world that do not even have PCs yet!

    The key to charging more therefor is to find business customers with a regular solid income and who are not tech savvy and need your help...desperately. If you do that you can charge 10x and more what the business model on this thread indicates. They don't want cheap, they want good, trustworthy and reliable people who can help lead them to where they know the "should" be online, and they will pay for it.
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    • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
      Originally Posted by dndoseller View Post

      Some businesses will pay thousands of dollars just to have a site made. The vast majority of corporate America has no idea that you can manipulate how sites get listed in Google. They barely know about Adwords. Maybe 1 person in the company runs a campaign and knows anything.

      I know, I have been a Webmaster in large corporations since 94. Most have done absolutely nothing to promote their Web site. It just gets traffic naturally as part of the business process.

      People are way too knowledgeable and savvy on this forum for their own good. In general folks here think potential customers know way more than they actually do. We are on the Internet all day everyday dealing with web-based businesses and we assume too much.

      I work in an international company right now with hundreds of millions in revenue and there is even a rampant lack of basic computer skills. All the super tech-savvy firms get the attention in the news and we buy from them online. But there are still millions if not billions of people who have problems finding a document they saved "somewhere" on their PC. In fact there are billions of people out there in the world that do not even have PCs yet!

      The key to charging more therefor is to find business customers with a regular solid income and who are not tech savvy and need your help...desperately. If you do that you can charge 10x and more what the business model on this thread indicates. They don't want cheap, they want good, trustworthy and reliable people who can help lead them to where they know the "should" be online, and they will pay for it.
      bingo

      The SMB market is even more abysmal in their understanding.
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      • Profile picture of the author MarkR
        What would be a good CMS to use other than WP or Joomla?
        Well, that depends. Is it a static HTML site? If so, CushyCMS is as easy as it gets, and free.

        Mark
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        • Profile picture of the author bionictortoise
          This is basically what Offline Gold is all about, but $30 a month is really limiting. Is that all you think you're work is worth?

          I know two people who do this already and one charges $350 for the site and $180 per month per client - (they have quite a few) and uses the keywords as the domain, rather than the business name - that redirects to the original biz site. They also do lots of PR and articles for that so the traffic goes up every month.

          But the keyword domain is always the marketer's. They rent it out, and if the client ever wants to quit, the site goes to their competitor, with a ready-made rush of traffic because the last company did a lot of their own SEO by updating the blog every week!

          I guess that's a hybrid system between offline IM and lead generation.
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  • Profile picture of the author ronakg
    Chris, it looks like you're perfectly set up to upsell them on autoresponders. They're probably already spending hundreds of dollars on advertising...you can approach them by saying: I can show you how to eliminate your ad expenses; then set up an autoresponder to start collecting emails, and pretty soon, they can start sending offers to the list and generate cash at will! Google "stupidly simple cash cow", which gives you the details.
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  • Profile picture of the author willyboy104
    This all sounds great and I have my idea, the skills necessary and everything else however how would I get my initial clients from?

    I was considering approaching the niche market door to door however how professional would a 19 year old look walking in to a shop asking to design and host them a website for $45 a month or whatever. It might just be me but the image doesn't seem to fit. So with that problem in mind, how else could I promote offline without having to sell myself as well?
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  • Profile picture of the author AndyBlackSEO
    Yes, I think the 24 months is what they're tied to, so if they want to keep the site running after that, they'll just pay monthly. That's how I understood it.

    If I were you though, I'd charge something like $69 for the first payment and then $39.95 per month.

    That would include a simple cms system so that they can easily update their own content. This adds value to them and would mean less work for you. You'd just give them access to online videos to show them how to use it.

    I'd then offer them a good value seo package and maybe outsource this. Of course, you'd make a profit on this.

    If you played your cards right you'd have quite a little empire in no time with little work involved for yourself.
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  • Profile picture of the author Instructor
    What would be a good CMS to use other than WP or Joomla?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jimnopks
    Great Idea Chris,

    You started this thread a year ago and said you would give us an annual report.

    Is your plan still rocking?

    If, did you sign up any Midget hookers? That's what I want to know.


    Jim
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