by Monthy
97 replies
Do you guys recommend at all formal education in marketing/finance/economics?

I know it's not "necessary" - there are many people making a lot of money online, who didn't even go to college - but my question is, can it help?
#education #formal #internet #marketing
  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
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    If you have the opportunity to get an education you take it, plain and simple.
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    • Profile picture of the author jkibbles
      Originally Posted by Joseph Robinson View Post

      If you have the opportunity to get an education you take it, plain and simple.
      Exactly. I won't say that I was a fantastic student at any point in my school career. For that matter, I pretty much scraped through High School on my test scores, right up until the time that I notice that I was making what I thought was good money and dropped out. It wasn't until years later that I realized my education was lacking and took steps to remedy it. I was 23 when I got my GED, and almost 30 when I took my first college course. Since then, I've tried to maintain a schedule of taking at least one course a semester, whether it's a credit course or an elective through the local community college.

      Throughout history, there are stories of entrepreneurs that made a fortune without an education. While these are inspiring, they also make me wonder how much more successful they could have been if they had been formally educated.
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      • Profile picture of the author Matthieu Miser
        I think that an education is important for more than just making money.

        I think that an education is important simply for the sake of being educated.
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      • Profile picture of the author ksmusselman
        Originally Posted by jkibbles View Post

        Exactly. I won't say that I was a fantastic student at any point in my school career. For that matter, I pretty much scraped through High School on my test scores, right up until the time that I notice that I was making what I thought was good money and dropped out. It wasn't until years later that I realized my education was lacking and took steps to remedy it. I was 23 when I got my GED, and almost 30 when I took my first college course. Since then, I've tried to maintain a schedule of taking at least one course a semester, whether it's a credit course or an elective through the local community college.
        Sounds like me! 10-1/2th grade education, GED @ 17, finally got around to college at 24 and it took me the next 10 YEARS to get my Assoc. Degree in Business Mgmt.

        Since then, I've taken a few credit and non-credit courses at the local community college.

        Has it helped? Well, since I was an adult with two kids by the time I got to college, I have to say yes, it did. I learned that I loved to write and took two journalism courses; I learned I'm really bad at math. LOL

        But I learned to appreciate learning! And I've realized over the last 20+ years that I learn better with video than with textbooks.

        I spend a great deal of time on YouTube viewing educational videos actually that have to do with writing and all kinds of things that I would otherwise have eventually learned in college had I stayed in.

        Neither of my kids went to college but my son did go to a technical school after high school and got his welding degree. And would you believe that at 31 years old, he actually gave me a hug and thanked me for encouraging him to further his education and get some type of certification! I almost cried! :-)

        My daughter learns by doing. I always thought she'd do something technical, like electronics or something because she's my "go-to person" for hooking up anything electronic. She really enjoyed her "wire harnessing" job for almost 15 years until the company shut down. But she's never had any intention of going back to school. It's just not in her personality, although even at 37 yrs old, she may still surprise me one of these days. ROFL

        But anyway, I would say that even if you just take some post-high school non-credit courses, at the very least, you'll learn how to study and you'll be better at learning.
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  • Profile picture of the author cferfland247
    If you planing about making money that's fine you need not to take formal education. But education is must if you want to be an educated
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    • Profile picture of the author RevenueGal
      With online marketing, I don't figure it's a must.

      I don't think college is necessary, but the more educated you are in the field you're working in should make you more qualified and successful. I'm a college graduate, but I believe in continuing my education...I never quit learning. I study a variety of topics. I love learning.

      I think people in this day and age are looking more into studying directly for the field you're entering into. For some that may just require attending a vocational-technical school.

      Apprenticeship-type training that allows you hands-on training of skills is still one of the best ways to learn, I believe... it'd be good if our society offered more of these types of opportunities.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mousumi
    If time permits. go and complete your education. My husband wanted to be a linguist and he is still waiting for the right time.......at the age 31, I don't think it's too late for him..but the sooner the better.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Monthy View Post

    I know it's not "necessary" - there are many people making a lot of money online, who didn't even go to college - but my question is, can it help?
    Yes, I think it can help.

    I suspect that if you compare small business owners who've done some kind of book-keeping/accounting course with those who haven't, the overall success-rate's clearly going to be higher among the first group?

    I also suspect that many people "trying IM" decide that they won't worry about book-keeping at all, to start with, they'll just "wait and see whether they make any money first, and then think about going to an accountant later if they do", and that the success-rate is significantly lower among those people (maybe partly because they're less businesslike and less suited to self-employment to start with, and partly because there are so many opportunities to get into trouble when you haven't thought about this stuff in advance)?

    Some people here like to decry formal education almost as a matter of principle, I know, and there are always exceptions (and they're the ones most often discussed!), but if you compare the "IM prospects" of someone who didn't go to college at all with someone with an MBA, I know which one my money's on!

    I can't prove any of this, of course.
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    • Profile picture of the author ksmusselman
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      I suspect that if you compare small business owners who've done some kind of book-keeping/accounting course with those who haven't, the success-rate's going to be higher among the first group?
      True, because if you've been exposed to some type of accounting, even if it's just basic business accounting, you'll realize just how important it is to your business. You'll also get an idea of whether you should do it yourself or outsource that part of your business.

      I can do the basics, like add and subtract to come up with my profit/loss, but the rest of it? We have an accountant. :-)

      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      ... but if you compare the "IM prospects" of someone who didn't go to college at all with someone with an MBA, I know which one my money's on!

      I can't prove any of this, of course.
      Oh, absolutely! Even IM without an education compared to someone who only took just one semester at community college "may" be more successful!
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    • Profile picture of the author Fishing
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Yes, I think it can help.

      I suspect that if you compare small business owners who've done some kind of book-keeping/accounting course with those who haven't, the success-rate's going to be higher among the first group?

      I also suspect that many people "trying IM" decide that they won't worry about book-keeping at all, to start with, they'll just wait and see whether they make any money first, and then think about going to an accountant later if they do, and that the success-rate is significantly lower among those people (maybe partly because they're less businesslike and less suited to self-employment to start with, and partly because there are so many opportunities to get into trouble when you haven't thought about this stuff in advance)?

      Some people here like to decry formal education almost as a matter of principle, I know, and there are always exceptions (and they're the ones most often discussed!), but if you compare the "IM prospects" of someone who didn't go to college at all with someone with an MBA, I know which one my money's on!

      I can't prove any of this, of course.

      Book Keeping is my biggest demon, I hate it, and get backed every year.

      Got to find a better CPA.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizamanda
    If I were you...I'll take the chance to have formal education first....somehow I believe that formal education build our way of thinking to be more strong and structured. But...it's really there is no right and wrong about this...like you said, many people success without going through the formal education...but, maybe because they're just blessed by the above average intelligence and perseverance....

    Best of luck
    Bizamanda
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Statistically, college graduates earn far more than high school graduates even when tuition costs are taken into account. There are also intangibles for higher education such as more business networking options through alumni and professional organizations in one's chosen course of study as well as access to business opportunities in stratified socio-economic circles. Although mitigating circumstances can offset some earnings discrepancies, within statistical deviation limits it can be said income expands as formal education increases.
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  • Profile picture of the author Green Moon
    Formal education is no guarantee of success, but there is no question that formal education opens some doors that are otherwise closed. It creates opportunities and choices. Can you achieve success choosing from only the remaining path? Sure, but more choices are almost always better.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bobby Asburn
    Any way formal education is of course important for us. It teaches us how to take decision and tech us to how to make our future enlighten with good decision.
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  • Originally Posted by Monthy View Post

    can it help?
    It didn't help me in any way.

    Instead of spending 4 years studying that theoretical crap, spend them building your business. You will learn MUCH more.
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    • Profile picture of the author ksmusselman
      Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

      It didn't help me in any way.

      Instead of spending 4 years studying that theoretical crap, spend them building your business. You will learn MUCH more.
      You know, I felt the same way several years ago, but with age comes wisdom and I now have absolutely no regrets in at least getting my associate degree.

      And actually, you can go for maybe 18 months and simply get a certification in your field of interest and it will help!
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    • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
      Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

      It didn't help me in any way.

      Instead of spending 4 years studying that theoretical crap, spend them building your business. You will learn MUCH more.
      The question though is who are you learning from? Most likely the best lessons are coming from those who are educated both formal and in the real world.
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  • Profile picture of the author ksmusselman
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    The ill-educated rich are the most boring people in the world.

    "Look at me! I made money while all those smart people were becoming cultured. Now I can annoy them with my noxious presence. If they're so smart, how come they ain't rich?"

    I think we should banish them to their own island or something.
    I love it! I know, "High school drop out makes a million in two hours with this one simple technique!" Riiight.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ten
    Formal education is USUALLY not a bad thing, IMO.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    When a formal education in marketing is really beneficial is if you ever work with major corporations where the marketing team has formal education.

    You will want to be able to communicate with them using their vocabulary and understanding.
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  • Profile picture of the author retsced
    I left a well paid plastering job to go back to college. If i hadn't made that decision, I'd still be plastering right now, and hating every minute of it. You never know what doors can open up for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author ALittleTF
    Cant believe how many people in here are saying that its not that necessary or isnt really a guarantee blah blah blah..

    Duhhhhhhhhhh! Formal education isnt a guarantee and far from it. Infact you will take a TON of classes that make no sense and have no applicability to what you want to do in life.

    You take formal education because it opens your mind to new thoughts and ideas along with many different perspectives than your own. It makes you smarter in more ways than you can imagine. The main thing you learn is a solid work ethic and skills to work with others and under pressure.

    Not to mention is something great to fall back on, and the great people you meet through the process.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
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      Originally Posted by ALittleTF View Post

      Cant believe how many people in here are saying that its not that necessary or isnt really a guarantee blah blah blah..

      Duhhhhhhhhhh! Formal education isnt a guarantee and far from it. Infact you will take a TON of classes that make no sense and have no applicability to what you want to do in life.

      You take formal education because it opens your mind to new thoughts and ideas along with many different perspectives than your own. It makes you smarter in more ways than you can imagine. The main thing you learn is a solid work ethic and skills to work with others and under pressure.

      Not to mention is something great to fall back on, and the great people you meet through the process.
      Everyone just wants to be the guy/gal that bucked the system and made it big. You know how it is .
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      Originally Posted by ALittleTF View Post

      You take formal education because it opens your mind to new thoughts and ideas along with many different perspectives than your own. It makes you smarter in more ways than you can imagine. The main thing you learn is a solid work ethic and skills to work with others and under pressure.
      You're completely right, but I've noticed in countless forum discussions about education, that many Warriors seem to look at education only in terms of its earning potential, and then not even to acknowledge the overwhelming overall income disparities between college graduates and others. In other words, you're right, but long experience here has taught me - in a strange, almost-educational process of its own - that you probably won't change anyone's mind. I never can, anyway ...
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      • Profile picture of the author ALittleTF
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        You're completely right, but I've noticed in countless forum discussions about education, that many Warriors seem to look at education only in terms of its earning potential, and then not even to acknowledge the overwhelming overall income disparities between college graduates and others. In other words, you're right, but long experience here has taught me - in a strange, almost-educational process of its own - that you probably won't change anyone's mind. I never can, anyway ...

        Yeah i can understand what your saying but damn thats crazy. I just graduated from SDSU and while i still no nothing about the tech industry (graduated as an international studies/Comm major) I still bring a different train of thought to my team.

        And college is LEGENDARY. if you have the opportunity, do it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark72
    Most of the top gurus (the ones who really make money) don't have any formal education but many of them do have a past history of offline marketing prior to coming online.

    Formal education is all fine and dandy, but it counts for nothing without experience.
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    • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
      Originally Posted by Mark72 View Post

      Most of the top gurus (the ones who really make money) don't have any formal education
      True, but consider that they are constantly pushing the legal limits of what they do. The FTC and state attorneys general are constantly looking at them.

      Every success story comes at a cost be it years spent on education, investment risk, trial and error or in the big MMO gurus case, a legal risk. If you remove the life sacrifice of formal education, that has to be made up for in another way.

      So, no, a formal education isn't always necessary.... but you will pay in some other way.
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  • If you want to be a corporate executive, get a degree (not because you require the education, but because you require the certificate).

    If you want to be an entrepreneur, get your business going and learn the ropes straight from the battlefield. Experience trumps theoretical education.

    And if you want to "open your mind" and " enlighten yourself", grab a backpack and travel the world for ****'s sake.
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  • Profile picture of the author andy mac
    As with most things one can muddle through and learn most things without a formal education ...... but that takes time, and a lot of trial and error. Formal education in my opinion is never wasted, learning proven techniques tried and tested. And once you get your qualification, it cannot be taken from you. I certainly am from the school of thought that if you get the opportunity to go and learn something you are interested in then do it. Its one of those opportunities that later on in life are harder to come by. I hope this helps.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
      Banned
      Originally Posted by andy mac View Post

      As with most things one can muddle through and learn most things without a formal education ...... but that takes time, and a lot of trial and error. Formal education in my opinion is never wasted, learning proven techniques tried and tested. And once you get your qualification, it cannot be taken from you. I certainly am from the school of thought that if you get the opportunity to go and learn something you are interested in then do it. Its one of those opportunities that later on in life are harder to come by. I hope this helps.
      Exactly, and this brings up a point that I think a lot of the "forget college, get money" people miss. Now, if you're going to college and muddling through required classes to get a degree you will be wasting your time and money. The people who think of college like that though either never went themselves or don't have an entrepreneur's mindset (and will fail in business anyways).

      College isn't high school: you don't just "show up" to get a piece of paper. You pick a field that you want to master (in this case business, accounting, whatever), and you put in extra effort to master it. There are resources at school that can't be matched in the outside world. On top of that, you have a protection here that you cannot have "going out and just doing it". College is pretty much your last chance to make mistakes with few consequences, and I'm not just talking about drinking and sleeping with "questionable" girls.

      People that say students should skip this crucial stage of development for whatever reason can probably be directly attributed to causing a lot of the messes that the world is in today. Lack of education leads to a lot of stupid s***.
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      • Originally Posted by Joseph Robinson View Post

        If you're going to college and muddling through required classes to get a degree you will be wasting your time and money. The people who think of college like that though either never went themselves or don't have an entrepreneur's mindset (and will fail in business anyways).
        Originally Posted by Joseph Robinson View Post

        I recently switched my major to hospitality management because it will make it easier for me to break in at Disney. I've networked with a ton of college program students, and others within the resort as I conduct my research. That is what is going to get me a job after graduation.
        Hehehe.... So first you talk about "Having an entrepreneur's mindset" but then you say that you're actually looking to "get a job at Disney after graduation"... see the king size oxymoron right there mate?

        For people who TRULY have an entrepreneur's mindset, a graduation is not needed because they don't need to get any job... they CREATE their own job. They do not need to shove any paper in front of anyone's door in order be allowed to be part of any successful venture because... they CREATE their own venture. They don't need to "network" in order to have a chance to work at Disney... They CREATE their own freaking Disney!

        And yes, I have a college certificate in Business, and I shoved it around earlier on in my life: it got me a decent job with a comfy salary, plus dental, plus a company car. Oh, and a retarded boss added to the package. That's about it.

        And guess what? the moment I stopped waiving my degree/CV around and I created my own business, it was the moment I started making proper money (10 times more money, actually) and properly building success in my professional career.

        Wanna work for someone else (Disney or else)? get a degree and become a white-collar worker. Wanna create your own business and make millions? don't waste 5 years of your life studying outdated theoretical stuff and get that business rock'n'rolling already!
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    • Profile picture of the author ksmusselman
      Originally Posted by andy mac View Post

      As with most things one can muddle through and learn most things without a formal education ...... but that takes time, and a lot of trial and error. Formal education in my opinion is never wasted, learning proven techniques tried and tested. And once you get your qualification, it cannot be taken from you. I certainly am from the school of thought that if you get the opportunity to go and learn something you are interested in then do it. Its one of those opportunities that later on in life are harder to come by. I hope this helps.
      This is very, very true. At 53 yrs. old I went back to our local community college to get a certificate in Web Design. I "thought" at the time that's what I wanted to do. (I'm one of those kids that still hasn't learned what she wants to be when she grows up :p)

      Well, I made it through one term, then halfway through the second - and too late to drop! - I landed in the hospital with the flu! (I'm still paying off the tuition!)

      Anyway, back at home and on the days I was able to sit up long enough, I hit YouTube. And proceeded to learn everything I would have learned not only in that semester but in the next two terms as well - for free!!

      But I'm still glad I went! I did learn something from the little bit of time I went. I got the very starter basics of programs I wouldn't have wanted to try in the first place. My Adobe Design Premium CS4 went onto my tuition bill so I didn't have to pay for that up front out of pocket. And I proved to myself that even at my age with my disabilities, I could still cut it with the young kids (I was the oldest in ALL of my classes!)

      Oh, and I decided I did not want to go into Web Design for a living. ROFL
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  • Profile picture of the author mootonandy
    Originally Posted by Monthy View Post

    Do you guys recommend at all formal education in marketing/finance/economics?

    I know it's not "necessary" - there are many people making a lot of money online, who didn't even go to college - but my question is, can it help?
    Only if you can afford it. But I do think formal education is over hyped by the education industry itself. I believed all their propaganda and went to university and it hasn't helped me at all, done the opposite really.
    Answer to your question, yes it can help but it can also do a lot of damage.
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    • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
      Originally Posted by mootonandy View Post

      Only if you can afford it. But I do think formal education is over hyped by the education industry itself. I believed all their propaganda and went to university and it hasn't helped me at all, done the opposite really.
      Answer to your question, yes it can help but it can also do a lot of damage.
      All I know is that these days a college education is what a high school diploma used to be. So, anyone who is younger let's say 18 to 30ish who steps up and say's they have never taken a college course is like someone telling me that they lack a lot of the basics.
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  • Profile picture of the author SuperDJ
    Formal education has it's merits. But it isn't everything. Especially in the UK; damn, the number of people that have degrees in somewhat specialist areas now working in tescoss/boots/superdrugs, being treated harshly, low pay and many hours.

    Yes, I'm talking about Pharmacists.

    If you're education isn't largely practical, then you definitely do not need to go to University/College to gain the knowledge and skills to become successful. They'll only end up reading powerpoint slides to you all day anyways. People like Scott H Young learning 4 year degree's in 12 months online, it really makes me wonder.

    Though if you ever say "I don't want to learn again." - something is definitely wrong imo.
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    • Profile picture of the author mootonandy
      Originally Posted by SuperDJ View Post

      Formal education has it's merits. But it isn't everything. Especially in the UK; damn, the number of people that have degrees in somewhat specialist areas now working in tescoss/boots/superdrugs, being treated harshly, low pay and many hours.

      Yes, I'm talking about Pharmacists.

      If you're education isn't largely practical, then you definitely do not need to go to University/College to gain the knowledge and skills to become successful. They'll only end up reading powerpoint slides to you all day anyways. People like Scott H Young learning 4 year degree's in 12 months online, it really makes me wonder.

      Though if you ever say "I don't want to learn again." - something is definitely wrong imo.
      I know loads of people who went to university and didn't get the amazing job they were led to believe they were going to get.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
        Banned
        Originally Posted by mootonandy View Post

        I know loads of people who went to university and didn't get the amazing job they were led to believe they were going to get.
        A big part of that is because they just went through the motions and collected a piece of paper. I recently switched my major to hospitality management because it will make it easier for me to break in at Disney (was previously going with the very general business management and accounting as a minor).

        I spend hours each day researching the industry in both the general library and the college of hospitality management's library. I'm at Disney parks more than I am at my own house. Heck, I spend so much time on the subject that I'm making it into my cornerstone niche! I've networked with a ton of college program students, and others within the resort as I conduct my research. That is what is going to get me a job after graduation. The piece of paper is a baseline. My connections, my research that goes above and beyond course requirements, and my activity as a business owner within the industry itself is going to set me ages ahead of those with just a degree.

        Could I accomplish the same thing without a degree? Maybe, but the degree of difficulty would be much higher. The same thing holds true for literally every field. It's not hard to get a job after graduation if you put in the leg work and care about your field enough to go above and beyond.
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        • Profile picture of the author mootonandy
          Originally Posted by Joseph Robinson View Post

          A big part of that is because they just went through the motions and collected a piece of paper. I recently switched my major to hospitality management because it will make it easier for me to break in at Disney (was previously going with the very general business management and accounting as a minor).

          I spend hours each day researching the industry in both the general library and the college of hospitality management's library. I'm at Disney parks more than I am at my own house. Heck, I spend so much time on the subject that I'm making it into my cornerstone niche! I've networked with a ton of college program students, and others within the resort as I conduct my research. That is what is going to get me a job after graduation. The piece of paper is a baseline. My connections, my research that goes above and beyond course requirements, and my activity as a business owner within the industry itself is going to set me ages ahead of those with just a degree.

          Could I accomplish the same thing without a degree? Maybe, but the degree of difficulty would be much higher. The same thing holds true for literally every field. It's not hard to get a job after graduation if you put in the leg work and care about your field enough to go above and beyond.
          Sure, if you play it in an intelligent way then you can land on your feet - but it doesn't turn out so well for people who made the wrong choices. The way they sell it to gullible young kids like its going to make them have an amazing life is really wrong IMO - especially working class kids who can't even afford it.
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          • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
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            Originally Posted by mootonandy View Post

            Sure, if you play it in an intelligent way then you can land on your feet - but it doesn't turn out so well for people who made the wrong choices. The way they sell it to gullible young kids like its going to make them have an amazing life is really wrong IMO - especially working class kids who can't even afford it.
            I agree completely. The situation I outlined is not conventional wisdom and is not advocated by the education industry or anything like that at all, at least here in the states. It's a damn shame too, we could be so much farther as a society in general.
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    • Profile picture of the author ksmusselman
      Originally Posted by SuperDJ View Post


      Though if you ever say "I don't want to learn again." - something is definitely wrong imo.
      THAT is the key phrase, right there. No matter what type of education, one should never want to stop learning!
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  • education..... YES

    Formal education..... Depends on ur goals.

    You don't need formal education to be successful, but statistics show: an educated person WILL make more in their lifetime than an uneducated person. This is for the career minded individual...... We are entrepreneurs and online marketers, you can self educate on any topic you want, and be successful at it.

    there's a long list of successful people with NO formal education, but that's not the norm.....

    the norm is... Hard work, dedication, action, and knowledge of the industry you are in, will yield positive results.

    I have a BA, and MBA, and may eventually go for PhD (I'm guessing no if u asked me today)...... I have long term career and entrepreneurial goals. I know my education will open doors , on top of my business success.
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    • Profile picture of the author ksmusselman
      Originally Posted by Marketinc Solutions View Post

      education..... YES

      Formal education..... Depends on ur goals.
      Exactly. I have an Assoc. Degree from a culmination of a private university, a community college and finally a business school. And I don't regret any of it. But then, I never graduated high school in the traditional sense and wearing that cap and gown for a ceremony was very important to me, even though I was 35 when that finally happened.

      I've also spent the last 19 years constantly self-learning - ebooks, books, a couple of non-credit courses, etc.

      I think one of the problem areas with high schools and colleges/universities today, at least when I was going, is that they don't put enough focus on business ownership and entrepreneurship in any way, shape or form. It's all "get a Job" focused. Doing your Resume, getting an interview, follow up letters, job applications, getting along in the workplace ...

      How about outsourcing? Communications? Marketing for the small business? No, at least here in the US in the colleges I went to, you didn't have any of that. You have to teach yourself these things.

      So IMHO, if you already know by the time you graduate HS that you are NOT going to be employed by anyone else but yourself, I think self-education is going to be a lot more important than formal education.

      The Internet has so many resources, including free resources, that you can teach yourself the equivalent of a Specialized Degree; i.e., like at the school I went to. Granted you won't get that accredited piece of paper but when was the last time a customer on the list of an IM person was asked for their CV?
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  • Profile picture of the author nksurf
    Sometime college educations does help you communicate better with other professionals.
    For example, you can ask the other person what their SWOT are.
    If you know what SWOT is then the other person does not feel that they have to explain EVERYTHING to you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Justin Spencer
    Hi,

    I disagree with most opinions stating in favor of a formal education.

    Formal education will be nothing more than a great disservice to you.

    Many well respected and successful men who have proved the most creative, innovative, powerful and clear in their endeavors, have more than not, unanimously agreed that formal education is a waste of time and money.

    Claude Hopkins for example, never went to college.

    He went to thousands of lectures to contrast his 'education from action' with 'education taught in colleges'.

    His blunt conclusion was similar to this: "Going to college for 4 years will require another 4 years to un-learn every theory that you were indoctrinated with"

    Mark Twain also said something among these lines:

    "I will never let a college interfere with my education".

    This topic is subject-dependent of course. Becoming a brain surgeon is a different story.

    If you want to be successful in business, marketing or advertising, don't go formal.

    -Justin
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    • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
      Originally Posted by Justin Spencer View Post

      Hi,

      I disagree with most opinions stating in favor of a formal education.

      Formal education will be nothing more than a great disservice to you.

      Many well respected and successful men who have proved the most creative, innovative, powerful and clear in their endeavors, have more than not, unanimously agreed that formal education is a waste of time and money.

      Claude Hopkins for example, never went to college.

      He went to thousands of lectures to contrast his 'education from action' with 'education taught in colleges'.

      His blunt conclusion was similar to this: "Going to college for 4 years will require another 4 years to un-learn every theory that you were indoctrinated with"

      Mark Twain also said something among these lines:

      "I will never let a college interfere with my education".

      This topic is subject-dependent of course. Becoming a brain surgeon is a different story.

      If you want to be successful in business, marketing or advertising, don't go formal.

      -Justin
      This argument is made a lot and it's biggest flaw is not factoring in that we are not all equal.

      Some people have a high level of intelligence, natural business sense and all the luck of being in the right place at the right time. Those are the people within the success group who preach that college is a waste of time for everyone.

      But then you look at the guy who is just kind of average and views "business" as a place you go to work 8 hours a day to do as little as possible without getting fired. That's the guy who is in desperate need of the structure of a formal education. How many newbies showing up here crying poor fall into this category? I would imagine a good amount, and they have zero chance of making things work online just as they can't get anything decent going for themselves offline either.
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      • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
        Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

        This argument is made a lot and it's biggest flaw is not factoring in that we are not all equal.

        Some people have a high level of intelligence, natural business sense and all the luck of being in the right place at the right time. Those are the people within the success group who preach that college is a waste of time for everyone.

        But then you look at the guy who is just kind of average and views "business" as a place you go to work 8 hours a day to do as little as possible without getting fired. That's the guy who is in desperate need of the structure of a formal education. How many newbies showing up here crying poor fall into this category? I would imagine a good amount, and they have zero chance of making things work online just as they can't get anything decent going for themselves offline either.
        Exactly.
        Just look at the threads we got gurus, business people, even mark twain mentioned. Many were great what they did for many of the reasons they mentioned, but some on the thread need to really check themselves, because they have done nothing lolol. I mean if they got the guru status without getting educated it's worth a listen to hear what they are saying, but if not, its just all excuses.
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    • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
      Originally Posted by Justin Spencer View Post

      Hi,

      I disagree with most opinions stating in favor of a formal education.

      Formal education will be nothing more than a great disservice to you.

      Many well respected and successful men who have proved the most creative, innovative, powerful and clear in their endeavors, have more than not, unanimously agreed that formal education is a waste of time and money.

      Claude Hopkins for example, never went to college.

      He went to thousands of lectures to contrast his 'education from action' with 'education taught in colleges'.

      His blunt conclusion was similar to this: "Going to college for 4 years will require another 4 years to un-learn every theory that you were indoctrinated with"

      Mark Twain also said something among these lines:

      "I will never let a college interfere with my education".

      This topic is subject-dependent of course. Becoming a brain surgeon is a different story.

      If you want to be successful in business, marketing or advertising, don't go formal.

      -Justin
      I can almost gurantee you that those lectures Claude went to were given by those who were formally educated.
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  • Profile picture of the author mjsing3r
    "If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library."

    -Frank Zappa
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  • Profile picture of the author Broderick Boyd
    #1 - Get a face to face or over the phone "sales" job. This is the best education in marketing that you could get.

    #2 - Most of what they teach in "formal" universities on marketing you can learn online from Wikipedia or from buying a textbook on the subject.

    #3 - Study the basics, again such as sales, and learn how to find out what the market wants, what the "hot" markets are, and how to do your proper market research. Learn the demographics, the language that they use, their fears, frustrations, challenges, hopes, aspirations, desires, goals etc. and you will understand how to serve markets better than any "formal" or informal "education" could teach you.

    Hope that helps!

    -Brody
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    • Profile picture of the author birddog200
      I can't even believe I made it through and graduated. I must have spent more on beer than on tuition. It was on one of those drunken nights that I found IM and never even used my degree.
      If the next google update leaves me without an income, then I have something to fall back on.
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    • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
      Originally Posted by Broderick Boyd View Post

      #1 - Get a face to face or over the phone "sales" job. This is the best education in marketing that you could get.

      #2 - Most of what they teach in "formal" universities on marketing you can learn online from Wikipedia or from buying a textbook on the subject.

      #3 - Study the basics, again such as sales, and learn how to find out what the market wants, what the "hot" markets are, and how to do your proper market research. Learn the demographics, the language that they use, their fears, frustrations, challenges, hopes, aspirations, desires, goals etc. and you will understand how to serve markets better than any "formal" or informal "education" could teach you.

      Hope that helps!

      -Brody
      I agree about the text books, but how many are actually going to open text books?
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  • Profile picture of the author albert12
    The best bet is learning something that you love and not for the money. You will make money if you do what you love. Its hard but I am working on a masters degree now and am extremely happy I made the decision to go.
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  • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
    Originally Posted by Monthy View Post

    Do you guys recommend at all formal education in marketing/finance/economics?

    I know it's not "necessary" - there are many people making a lot of money online, who didn't even go to college - but my question is, can it help?
    I will say learn as much as you can from wherever you can. Just make sure you got good teachers.
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    • Profile picture of the author heavysm
      I'm pushing to get as much education as possible. I'm only 23 but I already see that having a stimulated mind that is well balanced allows you to see the open opportunities in any market. Lack of stimulation and you're stuck in old ideas. It gets hard to innovate or even just to adapt.

      So yes, I believe it is of great importance to get a formal education to better open your mind. Shoot, I am basically a full time IMer yet my degree is in Philosophy. Both seeing the forest for the trees and analyzing the crap out of one sentence to find deeper meaning has definitely opened me to innovate in my business than had I just did IM with nothing else.
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        If you have the fortunate opportunity of going to a University then by all means do it.

        You can do IM in conjunction with taking classes. And like Alexa said (and I have to agree) an Education in Business ,whether it be Finance or Accounting, can be of help to you in many ways.

        One other thing and few have mentioned it...... to me it is personal.

        Google or even in some instances List building can go south on you. Your business could possibly go down the tubes. And Your money can vanish in a flash even your car and house could be taken away.

        But one thing they cannot take away from you is that Diploma that you earned and worked so hard to get.

        And that is something you can carry proudly throughout the rest of your Life !!
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      • Profile picture of the author taffie
        Because formal education is well structured, it's very good as it helps you to be more organised and focused, and many other attributes. It's a great additional to making money but not a must. It definitely increases credibility.
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Some one said that a Diploma is just a piece of paper just like I guess a Marriage Certificate is a piece of paper ??

          Anyway, the fact of the matter is that I have two young daughters. If they want to get in this business when they are older that is fine ,and I would support them 100 % if they were happy. College or no College.

          But if you asked me what I would honestly hope and want for them deep down inside ?? I say and will say to them DEFINITELY, DEFINITELY get their College Degree at ALL costs. It just opens up soooooooooo many more doors and allows them to have sooooooooo many more options in Life than this stuff.

          It is just plain and simple is that !!

          Now this being a Forum full of business owners, entremanures , and just people making money online then I can understand the biased attitudes here of not really needing a college degree. Sure, for this stuff you don't ! Thats a fact ! I know that. Any Joe Schmuck who has a little street smarts and work ethic and desire can do it.

          That being said, I hope each of you who do say it is just a piece of paper..... PLEEAZZZZEE ( I implore you) let your own children (if you have them or in the future) make that decision of whether it is just a piece of paper or worth way more than that !!

          Do not let that opportunity get away from your children because of your own biased outlook and experiences in Life!! There is a World outside of IM believe or not

          If the opportunity exists for your children to get a College Education Degree by all means let them go for it.
          I cannot stress this enough !!!!!!!!

          Do not say them that 'look baby, Daddy makes $200K a year from home without a college degree so you do not need one either'.......That is just being a cop out !

          So let them decide

          With one, it will make the doors open exponentially wider for them in this World we live in.
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          • Profile picture of the author mootonandy
            Originally Posted by discrat View Post

            But if you asked me what I would honestly hope and want for them deep down inside ?? I say and will say to them DEFINITELY, DEFINITELY get their College Degree at ALL costs. It just opens up soooooooooo many more doors and allows them to have sooooooooo many more options in Life than this stuff.
            If I'm not rich enough to fund it for them then I'm going to do the exact opposite. I'd rather they get a skill they can market like hairdressing or something.
            I got a degree from a good university and the great things I was told were going to happen just didn't.
            The only people guaranteed to win from you spending thousands of $ on education is the education industry.
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      • Profile picture of the author cashp0wer
        Definitely go for it if you have the time and money. My degree is very far from IM (computer information systems) but it has served me well in this business. I am all for getting as much education as you can.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimShaw
    It is important but I think the important thing is to study what you like, more than what you have to...
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  • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
    I went to college because it was a pre-requisite for getting
    a better-paying job in the offline world. Then I went into
    the military for 20 years, where more formal education was
    a pre-requisite for getting promoted beyond a certain point.

    In all those years, I NEVER really used what I was learning
    in those college classes.

    Now, I find myself falling back on some of the things that I
    learned, like statistical analysis, when making business
    decisions.

    The education that I gained in the world of work has proven
    far more valuable than my formal education, but the formal
    education swung certain doors open.

    If I were starting out today, I would still pursue that formal
    education, but I'd have an online business at the same time,
    and if education got in the way of a growing business, I'd
    probably drop out.

    20/20 hindsight

    Willie
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  • Profile picture of the author DotComBum
    No, it's not necessary, since it can be learn by trials and errors and also if you have some creativity and good ideas, you can make money online regardless what your education level is.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
    Originally Posted by Monthy View Post

    Do you guys recommend at all formal education in marketing/finance/economics?

    I know it's not "necessary" - there are many people making a lot of money online, who didn't even go to college - but my question is, can it help?
    Formal Education can really help lots, but not required, the one thing that it does, is build confidence, which is necessary to succeed in anything.

    There are things that you will learn formally that you will not learn here, and there are things you can learn here that you will never learn formally.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnB23
      I think formal education can put you in a box.

      -Look at the number of guys in marketing, business, finance who never went to college or never even got a masters (which some might think of as a requirement). It's a loooong list.

      Claude Hopkins
      Jay Abraham
      Richard Branson
      Gates, etc.

      I think the problem with formal education is what they teach is "safe" (not necessarily effective). In finance, there's all these precepts that they teach....about modern porfolio theory, rate of return, analyzing cash flow, etc. The real world isn't as neat as many academic theories. This is what a lot of successful people exploit. I.e. Claude Hopkins going door to door learning how to sell.

      There's quotes in Claude Hopkins book (my life in advertising), about learning more from the common man, the man selling things on the street....vs formal, book education.

      -I don't think you get breakthroughs in a classroom. Everything is "safe" or conservative. Or the standard way of doing something. Also, I think successful people can do one thing exceedingly well. You don't really need "everything" in a standard classroom.

      Also, I think there's something to be said for common sense. It alone has value in the business world (and in life). You can make things too complicated and lose touch with reality (i.e. the economic crisis). How many businesses lose touch with reality? It's a lot.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by JohnB23 View Post

        Look at the number of guys in marketing, business, finance who never went to college or never even got a masters (which some might think of as a requirement). It's a loooong list.
        It's actually a long list of very well-known, highly publicized exceptions. The list of people of whom that isn't true is incomparably longer, John. Worldwide statistics monitored by governmental, industrial, civil service and university researchers for many decades have proven, reliably and conclusively, that incomes among college graduates are greatly higher, even after allowing for the cost of the education. There are exceptions, of course, and they're always the ones discussed, but this stuff is simply factual. And interestingly, it's so valid that it remains true, to some extent, even in countries with completely screwed-up economies (such as Kazakhstan and Cuba).

        I don't disagree with most of your other points, though. I just think they're not too relevant to the discussion, because their frame of reference is limited to "income potential", which isn't even what education is primarily about.
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        • Profile picture of the author 4DayWeekend
          Qualifications might help you get a better foot in for an interview for a good 'day job' if that is what you're after... :p

          If you're entrepreneurial, well, I guess it's open for debate...

          I'd probably favor the argument that it doesn't help - but there are pros and cons. For me my Computer Science degree probably helped a little with the technical side of my IM business... But other than that, it didn't really aid at all.

          I came out as a 22 that wasn't hugely confident speaking to people and with a lot less money than people who just got a job out of school.

          Being entrepreneurial, confidence and some money to invest can be important.

          You only learn skills like communication in the 'real world'.

          It definitely positions you to get a better 'job' though
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          • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
            Originally Posted by 4DayWeekend View Post

            Qualifications might help you get a better foot in for an interview for a good 'day job' if that is what you're after... :p

            If you're entrepreneurial, well, I guess it's open for debate...

            I'd probably favor the argument that it doesn't help - but there are pros and cons. For me my Computer Science degree probably helped a little with the technical side of my IM business... But other than that, it didn't really aid at all.

            I came out as a 22 that wasn't hugely confident speaking to people and with a lot less money than people who just got a job out of school.

            Being entrepreneurial, confidence and some money to invest can be important.

            You only learn skills like communication in the 'real world'.

            It definitely positions you to get a better 'job' though
            lol nice try, but computer science means that you think a certain way. thinking in detail goes a long way in any business.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnB23
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          It's actually a long list of very well-known, highly publicized exceptions. The list of people of whom that isn't true is incomparably longer, John. Worldwide statistics monitored by governmental, industrial, civil service and university researchers for many decades have proven, reliably and conclusively, that incomes among college graduates are greatly higher, even after allowing for the cost of the education. There are exceptions, of course, and they're always the ones discussed, but this stuff is simply factual. And interestingly, it's so valid that it remains true, to some extent, even in countries with completely screwed-up economies (such as Kazakhstan and Cuba).

          I don't disagree with most of your other points, though. I just think they're not too relevant to the discussion, because their frame of reference is limited to "income potential", which isn't even what education is primarily about.
          I don't think they are necessarily the exceptions. Look at the Forbes 400 list. Year after year, there are a significant number of people with little formal education.

          I.e. there's the classic immigrant story. I arrived penniless in NYC at age 12 from Europe. Built a retail super chain, etc. Or dropped out of college to pursue X.

          -I think college is somewhat analogous to going on a very long escalator ride. Like those long moving walkways at the airport. You stay in, get a salary, benefits for 30 years.

          There are an awful lot of opportunities outside of that walkway. The list of IM gurus and authors without much formal education is quite long. I think its kind of ironic....a guy like Claude Hopkins, a pioneer in direct response advertising was not in favor of college. Pioneers in some fields can be self made.

          -The problem with wealth creation, business, advertising.....there's so much creativity, self drive, misc outside forces that can affect your outcome.

          The reason that college grads make more money on average isn't necessarily because they teach great things.

          -You have a self selected, motivated group.
          -Highschool sets the bar very low. You're not going to make much money there.
          The lack of vocational training in this country. Comparing a plumber or electrician to an art history major probably isn't going to be a good comparison for the college.

          If there's another internet advertising field in 10 years, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the gurus and authors are self taught. I think its almost predictable....in some fields, a certain number of the success stories will be self taught.
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by JohnB23 View Post

            I don't think they are necessarily the exceptions.
            It's statistical fact that they're exceptions. College graduates, overall, earn significantly more than others. This has been proven and documents in a huge number of countries over many, many decades. As I mentioned above, it's even true in countries with "economies" like those of Cuba and Kazakhstan. You can deny it all you want, but you can't stop it from being true, because it is true.

            Originally Posted by JohnB23 View Post

            I think college is somewhat analogous to going on a very long escalator ride. Like those long moving walkways at the airport. You stay in, get a salary, benefits for 30 years.
            Exactly as I explained above, you're looking at the value of education primarily as an economic one. For many people, that isn't the primary purpose of education. You're not alone, there, in this context: that's how most Warriors discuss it, in most of the (many) threads on this subject. To me, that's still a very limited and limiting perspective, though - and I'll declare my own potential bias openly: I'm currently a PhD student.

            Originally Posted by JohnB23 View Post

            There are an awful lot of opportunities outside of that walkway.
            There are indeed. And fomally educated people can take advantage of them every bit as much (and sometimes more) as non-formally educated people. I'm doing so, and so are many others I know.

            You're looking at "education" as something that limits its recipient to conventional employment. That's simply not so: education generally increases options, rather than reducing them. Again, this is fairly factual, I think.
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            • Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              It's statistical fact: College graduates, overall, earn significantly more than non-graduates.
              That is true... for those searching for a job.

              But the point of this thread is to discuss this topic from an entrepreneur's point of view (meaning NOT searching for a job). And as far as entrepreneurs go, a certificate does not improve your income in any way. Quite the opposite actually: it sets you back 4 years and tens of thousands of dollars that could have been directly invested in your business, instead of being invested in a generalist and often outdated trivia knowledge.

              As an entrepreneur, I think I will keep my 4 years and tens of thousands of dollars and invest them in my business, so I can get actual REAL-WORLD education... which in business (online or offline) it's the only one that matters.
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              • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

                That is true... for those searching for a job.
                Yes indeed ... and thanks for helping me to make my point.

                The assumption is typically that "searching for a job" is the value of education. And it just isn't.

                Plenty of highly educated people become entrepreneurs. But in a forum full of entrepreneurs (and aspiring entrepreneurs), if you look at education in terms of "searching for a job" then of course you're going to find a hugely anti-educational bias, compared with similar discussions in other places, simply because so many people here don't want and never wanted a job (I'm one of them, though I don't have the anti-educational bias) or want to give up a job.
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            • Profile picture of the author JohnB23
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              It's statistical fact that they're exceptions. College graduates, overall, earn significantly more than others. This has been proven and documents in a huge number of countries over many, many decades. As I mentioned above, it's even true in countries with "economies" like those of Cuba and Kazakhstan. You can deny it all you want, but you can't stop it from being true, because it is true.

              Exactly as I explained above, you're looking at the value of education primarily as an economic one. For many people, that isn't the primary purpose of education. You're not alone, there, in this context: that's how most Warriors discuss it, in most of the (many) threads on this subject. To me, that's still a very limited and limiting perspective, though - and I'll declare my own potential bias openly: I'm currently a PhD student.

              There are indeed. And fomally educated people can take advantage of them every bit as much (and sometimes more) as non-formally educated people. I'm doing so, and so are many others I know.

              You're looking at "education" as something that limits its recipient to conventional employment. That's simply not so: education generally increases options, rather than reducing them. Again, this is fairly factual, I think.
              There are a few reasons why I'm leery of college education.

              A. The price has gone up significantly in the last 30 years. I think this is a fact. At the rate of inflation, or much higher.

              B. What they teach is somewhat questionable, and/or overly basic. I.e. I graduated from college in 2004 with a degree in finance. I had marketing classes....they teach....the 4 p's? I think everyone has heard of that. The michael porter 5 forces model.

              They skim the surface. Kind of like telling you the types of keys on a piano. The real question is, what do you do with those keys. How hard do you press them. Traditional marketing is also being rapidly supplanted (i.e. the decline of traditional broadcast media and advertising).

              I don't look at college just in a money making sense. But also, practicality.

              C. There are an awful lot of personalities and people to learn from that aren't covered in college. This isn't just a money making idea. But general knowledge. College is suppose to be this great bastion of knowledge. Why do they leave out so many great thinkers?

              Look at advertising and selling. Do they cover...Claude Hopkins, Albert Lakser, Leo Burnett, etc? Why not?

              I think if you have the wrong pre conceived ideas, education can limit you to conventional employment. How often have you heard the story....it took me 10 years to get rid of this idea I had, before I could be successful, or before I could do X. Or, I had to unlearn something, before I could do X. If its a tightly wound idea, it can be hard to get rid of it.

              They also completely miss common sense. Which has profound implications for later in life (after you're 20's). Common sense alone can be a masters or ph d.

              I.e. two men go through life after their 20's.

              One has a very high economics degree. Wharton, all these letters after his name. Studies all the economic numbers. Can write long economic papers. Remember all the economists who thought their was no recession. Or homes were going to go up forever.

              Then there's the man on the street. He really sees the recession. Much more in tune with reality. They're going to see two different worlds.

              Also, you have to learn about yourself....what you're good at, what your inclinations are. That's whats valuable.
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              • Originally Posted by JohnB23 View Post

                What they teach is somewhat questionable, and/or overly basic. I.e. I graduated from college in 2004 with a degree in finance. I had marketing classes....they teach....the 4 p's? I think everyone has heard of that.

                .........

                They skim the surface. Kind of like telling you the types of keys on a piano. The real question is, what do you do with those keys.

                .............

                College is suppose to be this great bastion of knowledge.
                Man, I totally agree with you.

                College *is* supposed to be a great bastion of knowledge... but unfortunately that knowledge remains basic, outdated and 100% theoretical. As a result, it remains mostly useless.

                Real-life example: my college years were the late 90s, and I was studying Business. Back then, the world was going through the infamous dot.com bubble: Yahoo, Ebay, Amazon and the rest were taking the world by storm, everybody was talking about "the internet", "e-commerce", "the dot-com new age", "Silicon Valley", etc... Yet in college we were being taught stuff like Taylorism, Henry Ford's assembly line, etc (stuff from the beginning of the 20th century). I was like "teacher, dude, read the papers! I don't want to know about what was hot in the 1930's, I want to know about what's hot now!".

                Guess what: by the time I got my degree in 1999, I was never taught a single relevant thing about this "e-commerce" thing that was in the media every single day. Not a single lesson on online business... and I was studying Business for Pete's sake! LOL, it's almost comical...

                A friend of mine, studying Computing Engineering, was reporting the same problems: the stuff they were studying at College had long been mainstreamed and on the verge to become totally outdated by newer technology. None of that new technology was being taught. Students' knowledge would be already outdated by the time they'd finish their studies.

                What is the point of studying something that's outdated, overly generic, entirely theoretical, and with hardly any application to the real world out there? is that truly a bastion of -useful- knowledge in any way? or is the only purpose of college to get the damn Certificate so you can beg around for your first job? Not very entrepreneurial-minded, is it?

                Oh well... at least I can explain pretty darn well what the Henry Ford's assembly line model is about... :rolleyes: Oh yeah, and I had some wild parties too! :p
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  • Profile picture of the author Tayman
    In most cases, any time someone has invested a lot of time, money and effort into a goal they will defend that choice to the death. Its part of what defines them. You can't attack someones belief system head on and expect positive results.

    Most colleges teach you skills to be an employee and not the creative thinking necessary to be a leader or entreprenuer.

    In the IM world, you can attend college but you won't see massive success without attending the school of hard knocks as well.


    If you want to be "cultured" you need to learn things from multiple perspectives. Our graduates think learning stops once the degree is obtained.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheSalesBooster
    Education is always good.

    But paying 10-50k a year to go to a class where someone teaches you from a book is questionable.

    Experience trumps education every time.

    Although there is a difference between going to school for something like business and going to school for something like engineering. Engineering is a pretty universal skill, meaning there are fundamentals that everyone who does engineering must follow.

    But when you go to school for something like business... there are no rules written in stone that will guarantee you will create a successful business. There are just the fundamentals... They basically give you the tools needed to build your business, but you still have to build it.

    So is a business degree worth it?

    If it costs you $50,000 to get your business degree I would say NO. It's not worth it..

    Spend that $50,000 experimenting and learning from your mistakes. You will gain more knowledge by doing that than any 4 year graduate straight out of business school.

    Most of these kids who come out of business / marketing school expect to be hired by big advertising agencies because they have a piece of paper with their name on it. Truth is nobody in advertising gives a shit about that paper. In fact they probably laugh at the idea of people paying thousands of dollars to go to school for a piece of paper that is given out to millions of people every year.

    Let me make this very clear. You're not special because you have a degree...

    The only thing that piece of paper is good for is getting your foot into the door. The rest is up to you.
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    • Profile picture of the author mootonandy
      Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster View Post

      Education is always good.

      But paying 10-50k a year to go to a class where someone teaches you from a book is questionable.

      Experience trumps education every time.

      Although there is a difference between going to school for something like business and going to school for something like engineering. Engineering is a pretty universal skill, meaning there are fundamentals that everyone who does engineering must follow.

      But when you go to school for something like business... there are no rules written in stone that will guarantee you will create a successful business. There are just the fundamentals... They basically give you the tools needed to build your business, but you still have to build it.

      So is a business degree worth it?

      If it costs you $50,000 to get your business degree I would say NO. It's not worth it..

      Spend that $50,000 experimenting and learning from your mistakes. You will gain more knowledge by doing that than any 4 year graduate straight out of business school.

      Most of these kids who come out of business / marketing school expect to be hired by big advertising agencies because they have a piece of paper with their name on it. Truth is nobody in advertising gives a shit about that paper. In fact they probably laugh at the idea of people paying thousands of dollars to go to school for a piece of paper that is given out to millions of people every year.

      Let me make this very clear. You're not special because you have a degree...

      The only thing that piece of paper is good for is getting your foot into the door. The rest is up to you.
      The 50k you mention is usually borrowed money for a lot of working class kids, which from a risk/reward perspective makes it an extremely silly thing to do.

      risk - many thousands of $ of debt
      only guaranteed reward - piece of paper with something printed on it.

      Its just part of the dogma of most modern societies that 'education is always good', so most people accept it without scrutinising it properly. If 'education' was replaced with 'gaining marketable skills' then I would be more inclined to agree with it.

      Why would upper/middle class people want working class people to become one of them when they would have to go to the trouble of replacing their working class? Most modern societies NEED working class people or theres no middle/upper class. I think they are happy for working class people to get a university education just as long as they will spend the rest of their life in debt and make them even poorer than they would have been if they hadn't have gone to university. Its a win-win situation for them, in my opinion.
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    • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
      Originally Posted by TheSalesBooster View Post

      Education is always good.

      But paying 10-50k a year to go to a class where someone teaches you from a book is questionable.

      Experience trumps education every time.

      Although there is a difference between going to school for something like business and going to school for something like engineering. Engineering is a pretty universal skill, meaning there are fundamentals that everyone who does engineering must follow.

      But when you go to school for something like business... there are no rules written in stone that will guarantee you will create a successful business. There are just the fundamentals... They basically give you the tools needed to build your business, but you still have to build it.

      So is a business degree worth it?

      If it costs you $50,000 to get your business degree I would say NO. It's not worth it..

      Spend that $50,000 experimenting and learning from your mistakes. You will gain more knowledge by doing that than any 4 year graduate straight out of business school.

      Most of these kids who come out of business / marketing school expect to be hired by big advertising agencies because they have a piece of paper with their name on it. Truth is nobody in advertising gives a shit about that paper. In fact they probably laugh at the idea of people paying thousands of dollars to go to school for a piece of paper that is given out to millions of people every year.

      Let me make this very clear. You're not special because you have a degree...

      The only thing that piece of paper is good for is getting your foot into the door. The rest is up to you.
      I think its better if you actually dive into the school thing and find out for yourself.

      I had a prof who taught me retail from a book. His selection of the book was excellent. How did I know? because I started studying business at the age of 15.
      Oh, let me tell you about the prof teaching the course lolol. Have you ever heard of hersheys? well he dated the daughter. Have you ever heard of Mergers and Acquisitions? This prof was responsible for the start of that.

      My point is you normally wouldn't get that hands on type of training in the Real World and this school wasn't even an Ivy College.

      Another course I took delt with the future of business. The prof. was in advertising and marketing at one point. Anyway, this course covered Affiliate Marketing and Multi Level Marketing this was back in the early to mid 90s.

      Again I say you normally don't get that type of start and training in the Real World.

      The problem here is that people are lazy and rather wallow in their own self pitty. So, what if one guru comes out of 1 million. That means that 1 million are low achievers to middle of the road and never get the guru status. So, my point this time is that you are better off getting as much education as you can, rather it be formal or otherwise. Just make sure you pick the right teachers.
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  • Profile picture of the author pinakin
    Getting an education doesn't matter, you need to have knowledge don't try to be a jack of all but try to be master of one. If you are master in any field I guarantee you that success will follow you
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  • Profile picture of the author Big Al
    Feel like I'm kissing Ken Claudhill's ass at the moment...

    Does anyone here know the difference between education and training?

    I don't think so.
    Education = instruction in some subject

    Training = to teach a person to do something

    That's a key point.

    IMHO I think it could be beneficial to do a marketing degree or whatever. Just that it's highly likely it will be up to you to fill the gap between the theory taught in class and application in the real world.

    Perhaps with part-time jobs, your own business or arranging real world experience during the course.

    I did a degree and it was an essential pre-requisite despite being far removed from real world application. The best way to actually be good at the job was having the right attitude and combining real world experience with curiosity. Reading, going to seminars and listening to the people who know what they were talking about.
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  • Profile picture of the author ceenote100
    You can educate yourself when it comes down to marketing. There are plenty of books on the subject you can check out at your local library. Why waste money taking up classes?
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by ceenote100 View Post

      You can educate yourself when it comes down to marketing. There are plenty of books on the subject you can check out at your local library. Why waste money taking up classes?
      I agree completely with this. I'd hate to get a formal education in "marketing". I don't even think of "marketing" as "formal education" (though I acknowledge that in some places it just about can be, these days, with "degrees" available in "business studies" and even specifically in "marketing"). Not my idea of "education" at all.
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  • Profile picture of the author eternalsongbird
    In my opinion, for making money education is a must. It might not be formal education. Practical education and experience are more effective than formal education for making money.
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    • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
      Originally Posted by eternalsongbird View Post

      In my opinion, for making money education is a must. It might not be formal education. Practical education and experience are more effective than formal education for making money.
      Any way you put it whether it be in the classroom or the WF one still has to gain that experience. Look at your WF failures the ones who ignore the basics of IM, sitting around for years before they build a list, or get their hands dirty. Yet I'm sure they have heard it over and over again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Earning eMoney
    If you take education in online marketing then you can work more professionally and it would be more beneficial to you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jessie Stevens
    I bought a few books on internet marketing. So far making decent money online. My thing is "Work Smarter, Not Harder". My degree was in animal science, now, its nothing, I didn't finish my courses. I work at an animal hospital "learned my job hands on". No point in school for me. I've always been able to make money without having to go to school. Besides, even if I wanted to go to school, I couldn't afford it.
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  • Profile picture of the author George Lee
    I am in favor of formal education at every opportunity. However; the mainstream educational system (formal college) may be geared more to brick and mortar business than you would find useful if you were working solely online. You would have to be good at taking principles and applying them to your method of operation to get the most out of it.

    You might be better off to utilize a OJT technique and self study the areas that you need to learn
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    • Profile picture of the author taffie
      Fact is, in this day and age, you can't afford to not have a degree in my opinion, the only problem is whilst it opens many other doors, these doors are to the world system, which is get a degree and get a job and so on, and as we may all know, you can only earn so much with this system.

      In most cases, these type of graduates never think of doing their own thing, and where they do, it will be some conventional way of doing it, which I just find way time consuming and risky.

      I say this because I have got good graduate friends who are stuck in the rut race and when we reason, they are never interested in looking at the opportunities online business avails and boy, only if they new what they could achieve with the knowledge and skills the have acquired. They actually shun online Internet marketing as a business, which is a real shame.

      I have so much to say on this but I am just going to cut it shot, however, I think it's highly important to guide your children in their careers and to make sure they get it, because they often don't, you know youngsters, they got their own ideas too.

      Bottom-line is, like Jim Rohn said, "Formal education will make you a living, and personal development will make you a fortune"

      A combination of the two can be explosive. Can you imagine what these young graduates would do if they had the knowledge one can acquire through personal development and the online marketing world?

      I think they need this stuff badly because there are too many of them and there is no work for all of them, the sooner they realise this the earlier we can alleviate the job crisis problem IMHO.

      Sadly, it's a question of choice and perception I suppose!
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  • Profile picture of the author Curtis2011
    Originally Posted by Monthy View Post

    Do you guys recommend at all formal education in marketing/finance/economics?

    I know it's not "necessary" - there are many people making a lot of money online, who didn't even go to college - but my question is, can it help?
    Economics - Only if it interests you personally. It won't help you much in business.

    Finance - YES, at least at a basic level. If you want to turn internet marketing into a real business someday (read: more than a sole proprietorship), then you definitely need to understand the basics of corporate accounting. Even if you remain a one-man operation, it still helps to know the basics of an income statement.

    Marketing - Do not learn this from traditional schooling. To be frank, the professors in marketing schools just don't know what the hell they are talking about. You will learn a lot more about marketing from good internet marketers who teach direct marketing methods like Eben Pagan than you will learn in 4 years in a marketing degree at a public university.
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  • Profile picture of the author dcristo
    It's my impression that most get into IM too young when they have no "business" sense. Learning SEO and other IM stuff doesn't make you a business person.

    It's better to get an education when you're young. If it teaches you nothing relevant to your business (which is doubtful) at least you will become more disciplined which will come in handy further down the track.
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  • Profile picture of the author dafnait
    Education is important yet don't forget one can be self educated,
    both ways are great as long as you committed to it, and motivated to learn!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author rising_sun
    Banned
    A fisherman have enough money sometimes more than enough ,it's not means that he is graduated or a Ph D or a fish expert from reputed university.
    By the way formal education can't give you money but it can give you professional attitude , a social value , a grammar to earn money.
    If you wanna earn money only it is not necessary to take formal education but it has some moral value.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin McNally
    There is no right or wrong answer as it depends on a number of factors.

    I enjoyed 4 years at my local university and completed a BA Honours Degree and to this day I have never used anything in that course ! Back then it didn't cost me a penny to attend university but the same course today might put you $30k in debt.

    With that type of money you can even start your own small business and learn on the job.

    For certain occupations a degree is a must but in many cases now an employer will prefer experience and a proven track record of achievement.

    Now if you get the chance to study the top rated course at the best university that is a different ball game.
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  • Profile picture of the author amarch81
    I know every wants to make money...but i strongly believe you have to educate yourself first. Take a step back to take 2 steps forward.
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  • Profile picture of the author kevin08
    Without education you are nothing
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