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Life Without Paypal. PayPal Escape Plan. Emergency PayPal Alternative. And More. Hopefully Much More

by George Wright
23 replies
Hi All,

I couldn't decide what subject line to use for this thread so I used them all.

Reality check

Whether some "successful" business people can comprehend it or not. PayPal "seems" like the only choice for many.

Due to whatever circumstances, which are varied and many, some people just can't get a merchant account, the incredulous tone and the saying "Just get a merchant account!" is not an answer to this problem for most who are really worried about losing their PayPal account. That is why they are sick worried.

Some very well respected authorities online got started with products like, "How to get a bank account when you are with chex system," based on their own real life experience, Just to name one out of many.

As a result of many posts regarding the sudden freezing of PayPal accounts some labour under fear day and night thinking "What will I do If PayPal freezes my account?" What if PayPal does a credit check on me and closes me down?" On and on.

End of Reality Check

I thank the school of hard knocks for teaching me that THERE IS AWAYS A WORK AROUND FOR EVERYTHING.

If your PC gets Stolen or crashes there is a work around. I over a period of time I've had them stolen and crash and instantly I found a work around. And the work around was not going out and buying a new PC.

By the way does anyone remember what a famous doctor came here to the WF needing?

My point above is just to impress on ME and you that there is ALWAYS a work around.

Back to the PayPal problem.

Yes Virginia there is Life after PayPal.

Several years ago when I was an IM baby I had my PayPal account frozen, and my alternative family member account frozen. I was innocent but those who don't believe "innocent" people's accounts get shut down won't believe my explanation so I won't give one. Those who do know this happens don't need an explanation.

So here is what I want this thread to do; Discuss paypal alternatives other than "get a merchant account."

I'm going to post this challenge to come up with workarounds for PayPal and then immediately post "my" workarounds in the next post.

I hope this thread helps any and all who live from day to day in fear of being shut down, that is I hope it helps relieve the fear. And I hope it helps those who have been frozen by PayPal to keep on keepin' on.

By the way as I write this I like PayPal and I use them every day. I know the reality is that could change in 5 minutes. Yet I'm not afraid. (anymore)

George Wright
#alternative #emergency #escape #life #paypal #plan
  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    OK,

    Here is my "Plan B."

    Plimus. Pure and simple Plimus. If you read all of the features of Plimus they have some that are even better than PayPal.

    Here is my "Plan C."

    Take everything I've learned and sell online and sell it offline.

    I've attended pitches for $6,000 seminars for products that I could put on a CD and sell all day at $100 a pop and make a nice living.

    That's mine,
    What's yours?

    George Wright P.S. EDIT: I almost forgot. Some things you can't do online unless you pay with PayPal. Things like paying Allen to run a WSO. Solution. Buy a debit card from your local Variety store or check cashing shop and pay through PayPal using the debit card. P.P.S. Need a bank account. Peoples' bank of Paris Texas.
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    • Profile picture of the author milan
      Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

      OK,

      Here is my "Plan B."

      Plimus. Pure and simple Plimus. If you read all of the features of Plimus they have some that are even better than PayPal.
      ..

      George,
      I opened a Plimus account and had the first 7 sales come in yesterday. Guess what, out of 7 sales I got 5 or 6 complaints on the Plimus order system. First they asked customers to verify their (paypal) email, not exactly in a subtle way (used the word "fraudelent" in a message). Then, a robot called people to the phone they entered (that is not mentioned to the customers anywhere) as a security measure. In one case the customer entered their home phone number while being at work. It took almost the whole day to resolve the "problem". In another case the customer entered a valid number, but the system emailed saying the phone number was invalid (non US customer, the system was wrong). This is supposed to be buying ONLINE. Can't find much on that on their website. People complaining on forums quote an email from customer support saying the phone verification is just for the first "couple of sales".
      My support ticket is not answered, more than 24 hours passed. Tried to get them on the phone, without much luck.

      This is one of my better experiences with companies like this They do have great features, always pay on time and everything, but obviously, need to improve the customer experience for the buyers.
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
    2co & click bank.
    Most of the affiliate and cpa networks I work with pay via check or direct deposit as well.
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    -Jason

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    • Profile picture of the author VegasVince
      What's up Big Daddy George.

      Great OP as usual until the end where you mention you jumped back in the bed with Devil....after the froze ya the first time. lol

      Oh well....second time around shame on you. And yes...you're right...Pay Pal freezes the accounts of many honest marketers....whether people choose to belive it or not.

      Willie Crawford had his account frozen once....and I'm pretty sure Willie is one of the good guys times ten....so nuff said on that issue.

      I personally don't need a back up plan.....because I don't give second chances. Pay Pal froze my account once....and returned every penny to me exactly 180 days later without an apology. So to me, that was legalized THEFT.

      Why would I play ball with a thief a second time. Not Vinnie.

      It's tough enough making money....without having to worry about some unregulated cyber company playing GOD with it.

      For what it's worth.....my marketing idol has always been the late, legendary Gary Halbert.

      Gary Halbert made millions of dollars in his lifetime....and I'm pretty sure he didn't need a PAY PAL ACCOUNT.




      xxx Vegas Vince
      Legend.
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      • Profile picture of the author George Wright
        Hey Vince,

        What Can I say Vince, It's coRnvenient. Besides in my case they "begged" me to come back. Believe it or not. When they straightened out the mess they unfroze my account and I hit the delete account button and was FINISHED with them. They started sending me emails. "We want you back." LOL I caved.

        By the way. I do have back up now.

        George Wright
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  • Profile picture of the author BizBooks
    Well, Allan would want an alternate means of accepting payments too, in case HIS paypal was shut down!

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  • Profile picture of the author Logan_5
    Something to consider is perhps starting your own "pay-pal". I have seen clone scripts for sale online. google it.
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  • Profile picture of the author BizBoost
    Paypal is a nightmare waiting to happen. I wrote about this in another thread, but in short, they once accused me of running a 2-tier affiliate program. In their eyes, and I guess the eyes of the law now, that constitutes MLM -- earning not only from affiliates' sales of your product, but also on the people THEY sign up.

    Fact was, the complaint was about a turnkey site I'd bought that came with an affiliate module that hadn't even been activated. There wasn't even a way for people to join the affiliate program on the site and not one order had ever been made from the site.

    Now, you, I and a deaf, dumb and blind monkey could have seen this was so and dealt with it all in a most reasonable and considerate manner. However, Paypal not only shut down my Paypal account, they refused to even allow me to inquire as to why I had been shutdown. They simply offered me my remaining funds and told me that was that.

    I waded through the inept script monkeys manning the first tier of customer service and made it to tier two because i learned that instead of wasting time with those script readers who can't help me, I only needed to say, "I'd like to ESCALATE this please." and I'd be given to a "supervisor."

    After 3 times with the same supervisor, I said, "Listen, if I'm REALLY guilty of violating TOS and they can show me where it is, I won't even argue. I promise I'll just go and that'll be the end of it, but I keep searching myself for any possibility of a violation and I find nothing and I have always shot straight so I would never have to look over my shoulder, so to speak.", so can you please just put me in touch with someone with the authority to make a yes/no decision, please?

    Like I said, after 3 times, he finally put me in tough with a "senior agent."

    Now, get this...

    After the senior agent told me what was the problem, I told him what I told you above -- no join button on affiliate program plus no sale ever made from that site. After 2 hours break, he called me back and said, "Yeah, it seems everything you told me is true. However, I have some good news and bad news for you...

    Good news: we're going to reinstate your account
    Bad news: you have to sign an online affadavit admitting that you are guilty for what we said you did.

    I couldn't handle losing Paypal at the time, so I agreed.

    But, after that, I vowed I would f*** those b******* in a huge way the very first chance I got and I don't do anything in a small way and they really screwed with me in a way that violates my principles.

    So, Paypal users BEWARE... they not only don't give a sh*t about you, but they can squash your business in 3 seconds flat and not even care about it.

    Have other methods for payment ready in the wings before you ever do any kind of a big launch.

    Eric
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
      Originally Posted by BizBoost View Post

      Paypal is a nightmare waiting to happen. I wrote about this in another thread, but in short, they once accused me of running a 2-tier affiliate program. In their eyes, and I guess the eyes of the law now, that constitutes MLM -- earning not only from affiliates' sales of your product, but also on the people THEY sign up.

      Fact was, the complaint was about a turnkey site I'd bought that came with an affiliate module that hadn't even been activated. There wasn't even a way for people to join the affiliate program on the site and not one order had ever been made from the site.

      Now, you, I and a deaf, dumb and blind monkey could have seen this was so and dealt with it all in a most reasonable and considerate manner. However, Paypal not only shut down my Paypal account, they refused to even allow me to inquire as to why I had been shutdown. They simply offered me my remaining funds and told me that was that.

      I waded through the inept script monkeys manning the first tier of customer service and made it to tier two because i learned that instead of wasting time with those script readers who can't help me, I only needed to say, "I'd like to ESCALATE this please." and I'd be given to a "supervisor."

      After 3 times with the same supervisor, I said, "Listen, if I'm REALLY guilty of violating TOS and they can show me where it is, I won't even argue. I promise I'll just go and that'll be the end of it, but I keep searching myself for any possibility of a violation and I find nothing and I have always shot straight so I would never have to look over my shoulder, so to speak.", so can you please just put me in touch with someone with the authority to make a yes/no decision, please?

      Like I said, after 3 times, he finally put me in tough with a "senior agent."

      Now, get this...

      After the senior agent told me what was the problem, I told him what I told you above -- no join button on affiliate program plus no sale ever made from that site. After 2 hours break, he called me back and said, "Yeah, it seems everything you told me is true. However, I have some good news and bad news for you...

      Good news: we're going to reinstate your account
      Bad news: you have to sign an online affadavit admitting that you are guilty for what we said you did.

      I couldn't handle losing Paypal at the time, so I agreed.

      But, after that, I vowed I would f*** those b******* in a huge way the very first chance I got and I don't do anything in a small way and they really screwed with me in a way that violates my principles.

      So, Paypal users BEWARE... they not only don't give a sh*t about you, but they can squash your business in 3 seconds flat and not even care about it.

      Have other methods for payment ready in the wings before you ever do any kind of a big launch.

      Eric
      Most people dont seem to be getting the point here...

      Yes I'm sure they are a little trigger happy and some innocent people get caught in the cross fire. (not that many on a % basis though)

      But the risk is the same for all payment processors, which ever one you choose. Paypal just happens to have the most customers and is the highest profile processor, so they will inevitably be most talked about (or complained about)

      All of the incidents above or ever talked about could and does happen with all other payment processors, PayPal is not unique with this...

      They all are concerned with keeping thier merchant accounts, and take the view (quite rightly) that they will protect themselves from losing thier livlihood before protecting yours.

      Down to a choice of can a few accounts that may or may not be a problem, in order to keep themselves in business is a choice you would make too... Its never personal just business

      Robert
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      • Profile picture of the author BizBoost
        Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

        Most people dont seem to be getting the point here...

        Yes I'm sure they are a little trigger happy and some innocent people get caught in the cross fire. (not that many on a % basis though)

        But the risk is the same for all payment processors, which ever one you choose. Paypal just happens to have the most customers and is the highest profile processor, so they will inevitably be most talked about (or complained about)

        All of the incidents above or ever talked about could and does happen with all other payment processors, PayPal is not unique with this...

        They all are concerned with keeping thier merchant accounts, and take the view (quite rightly) that they will protect themselves from losing thier livlihood before protecting yours.

        Down to a choice of can a few accounts that may or may not be a problem, in order to keep themselves in business is a choice you would make too... Its never personal just business
        Robert, if only it were as simple as you make it.

        When the original story happened, I did extensive research. Your friend, Liz Tomey, for example, got an undeserved kick in the arse by Paypal simply because someone from whom she had once accepted a payment had been in something they considered a TOS violation.

        Not that she had... but someone from whom she accepted a payment had -- guilt-by-association. They didn't want to hear her story, or at least not listen to it.

        Then, I found that websites like


        amongst others, had cropped up to help combat Paypal's gestapo-like policies.

        While I understand your attempt to rationalize that, sometimes, tiny little people get stomped to smithereens by big business, I'm not buying it. You, as a vendor, are their CUSTOMER... not someone who is legally, rationally, or ethically bound to be kicked around and have all your business efforts dashed to the ground and either injured or destroyed just because...

        "Paypal is big, and that sorta thing just happens every now and then..."

        One of the things I told them that got me an audience with the senior agent was this:

        "When I called here, the VERY FIRST THING the recording answering the phone says is, 'CUSTOMER SATISFACTION IS OUR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY', well, in my mind, I'm still a customer-in-good-standing and that hasn't changed just because someone on YOUR end has made a mistake in assessing my business practices. Now, as a customer-in-good-standing, I don't feel SATISFIED and I think that, in the very LEAST, I deserve the chance to know what happened and to defend myself."

        You see, you're in the UK, Robert, and while the whole world has progressed quite a bit since the 1700s, we Yanks, if you can remember correctly, have a very strong disposition towards resisting/fighting tyranny. And Paypal, being able to just pull out and damage your business in the heat of the night, without any right to review, just because someone there deems you in violation is TYRANNICAL.

        And, if that's what happens to a certain percentage of individuals doing business with big business then we DO get it... and someone needs to continue with WARNINGS like GEORGE, and not rationalizations, like yours.

        For, as far as GOOD business practices go, part of the cost of doing business is having SCALABLE dispute resolution in place so that you don't continue to justify injuring X% individuals the bigger you get.

        These rationalizations that justify the injury of ANYONE by big business do none of us any good. And, it's rather insulting to say someone who has been through such a sh*tstorm "doesn't get it."

        Here, for you... go have a look at all us "little guys":



        Eric
        ps. and no, not all payment processors handle things equally horribly.
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    LOL VV, what did your ex do to you?

    I think YOU should start up the next paypal. Send and receive money without all the hassles and freezing and stuff.

    Hmm, what to call it? VincePal LOL? I dunno.
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  • Profile picture of the author clgiss
    Try Revolution MoneyExchange , I use them as a backup.
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  • Profile picture of the author lacraiger
    i've been banned by paypal about 6 times. its no big deal, just create a new bank account and start fresh with a new paypal account. no big deal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ted Kopelli
    Paypal has become a household word and most online shoppers are familiar with it.

    To avoid the PayPal Freeze, (been there done that, got the "Account Frozen" letter)consider using 2Checkout. They offer PayPal as a payment option (except for recurring) and you will always get your money every week.

    Best of both worlds - paypal and a merchant account - 2Checkout

    Personally I hate shopping at Primus sites. Waiting for a phone call to verify that I am who I am is ridiculous for online markets. If I wanted to order by phone, I would have done so LOL

    Ted
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  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    Primus - forget it, that is a disaster waiting to happen. Have you noticed how many scammer use it, so many that it is a question in the back of my mind when I see that is the option people use.

    2CO is a great option. You can have a debit card from them, and you can opt to have your payments to that, so no problem paying Allen for a WSO

    One option which I don't see that often is direct payments to your bank account.
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    • Profile picture of the author milan
      Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

      Primus - forget it, that is a disaster waiting to happen. Have you noticed how many scammer use it, so many that it is a question in the back of my mind when I see that is the option people use.
      I don't know about scammers. It's (too) easy to open account with them, so the scammers might want to take advantage of that, but they verify the first couple of sales so in the end it's the same thing as 2checkout. (BTW it's PLimus not PRimus).[/QUOTE]

      Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

      2CO is a great option.
      Took me 3 weeks to "verify" everything with them. While the replies from their support team seemed un-intelligent.

      Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

      You can have a debit card from them, and you can opt to have your payments to that, so no problem paying Allen for a WSO
      Did you get that debit card? I doubt it can be used on the internet. BTW all other sites (like Plimus) have this option now.

      Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

      One option which I don't see that often is direct payments to your bank account.
      Plimus can do that, 2checkout can do that....
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    • Profile picture of the author George Wright
      Hi Bev,

      Are we talking about the same thing? You say primus? I was talking about plimus.
      You mention a debit card. That's what I like about plimus. They offer a debit card.

      Granted RE: the scammers, They are rampant everywhere these days.

      George Wright

      Originally Posted by Bev Clement View Post

      Primus - forget it, that is a disaster waiting to happen. Have you noticed how many scammer use it, so many that it is a question in the back of my mind when I see that is the option people use.

      2CO is a great option. You can have a debit card from them, and you can opt to have your payments to that, so no problem paying Allen for a WSO

      One option which I don't see that often is direct payments to your bank account.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adaptive
    I couldn't decide what subject line to use for this thread so I used them all.
    George, you have one action-packed bursting-with-value grab-the-eyeballs headline style here!

    Great thread too, thanks for the timely discussion starter.

    Regards,
    Allen
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  • Profile picture of the author pavondunbar
    My Plan B...

    I use Authorize.Net.

    I think PayPal is OK...for selling $7 ebooks and the like (under $100)...

    But for a $500 web design a client wants to pay me...

    And the client can only pay with credit card...

    Authorize.Net got that one in the bag...

    Pavon
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