Question about outsourcing

14 years ago

Well ... I guess you could get them to sign an NDA (non disclosure agreement) first. That might help a bit, however, you'd need to consult a lawyer to ensure it would stand up in court.

Will

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GobBluthJD

14 years ago

NDA, various contracts, make him sign all the paper you can think of. It probably won't matter, if they're in Pakistan or India or wherever and you're in the U.S. But it might scare them into behaving at least, if they're not too savvy.

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JeremiahSay

14 years ago

Besides GobBluthJD and Will's advise. I would like to add this: Do NOT tell them that you know NOTHING about coding. Act as if you know or don't tell them shit.

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magiclouie

14 years ago

If I may put my 2 cents in?

OP, aside from the agreed price on this project, I think you should offer a certain percentage to your future programmer on every sale.

Chances are the programmer would feel that the arrangement is like a partnership.

More power to your future plugin and I can't wait to test it out.

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Scott Lyons 14 years ago

It's actually something I would want just for myself. I guess I'd consider selling it if it turned out half as cool as I'd hope it would.

I guess I could say I'd give a percentage in the event I marketed it.

My worry is if I had it made just for myself, what's to stop the outsourcer from selling it himself if he thought he could make money with it? Even with an NDA etc., how can you possibly enforce it? Do you just trust him and take your chances?
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andyredsox

14 years ago

Originally Posted by magiclouie

If I may put my 2 cents in?

OP, aside from the agreed price on this project, I think you should offer a certain percentage to your future programmer on every sale.

Chances are the programmer would feel that the arrangement is like a partnership.

More power to your future plugin and I can't wait to test it out.

I'd agree to this. Your outsourcer will definitely do his best to get this done for you.

BTW, I also agree that you should never ever tell him that you don't know anything about coding.

Many outsourcers believe that people who outsource knew what they wanted to get done but don't have time to do it themselves!

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John Romaine

14 years ago

It can happen but it would be highly unlikely.

Most freelancers are just happy to have the work and make a few dollars.

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Go4DBest

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garfield29

I feel and hear you. I fully understand your main point.

This is what we called Trust. Try to build a relationship first.

Don't let your scepticism stops you in pursuing this. If not most, many of the programmers are not marketers. They just want to get paid.

You are the marketer. You are the one who will introduce this product to your targeted buyers.

Originally Posted by John Romaine

It can happen but it would be highly unlikely.

Most freelancers are just happy to have the work and make a few dollars.

I am with them with what they have written here. Programmers are inlove with codes and not so much with Marketing.

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forex traders

Banned 14 years ago

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TheArticlePros

14 years ago

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Scott Lyons

14 years ago

Originally Posted by JaRyCu

I'm speaking of someone who was in your shoes 18 months ago. I do know a little code, but not in a WordPress-friendly language, so I might as well have been code illiterate for all it mattered. I wanted to design a plugin that would help someone setup a silo structure on his or her site for better internal SEO structure.

I went over to vWorker and placed an ad to hire a programmer for a WordPress plugin. (Use whatever job board you like the best.) Before I did this, I sat down with a pencil and paper and literally diagrammed everything I needed this plugin to do in a logical progression, kind of like a flow chart, and then typed this up. I also scanned in my diagram because pictures can often help if you hire someone who doesn't speak the same language as you.

The way that vWorker works, you're able to easily setup NDAs and NCs to help safe-guard yourself, and you can also see previous ratings to see what people think of the workers. I checked every single applicant until I found one I liked. I showed him the work and we spent a few days going back and forth until he understood, then he went to work.

At the end of each step in the plugin, he sent a working copy to me so that I could make sure he was on the right track. I'd send it back with notes of what was right and wrong and he'd fix it, add the next stage, and send it back again.

The whole process took 2-3 weeks, then I had another programmer secure it so that it couldn't be hacked from any source, and put it up for sale.

My total cost? US$75.00. (He charged $50, but I gave him a $25 tip because he went above and beyond my expectations for the project.)

As far as I can tell, the plugin has never been stolen, we're still selling copies of it, and that programmer has never asked for a single penny in royalties. I defined all of this at the outset, however, to ensure that any bidding programmer knew what he or she was going to get and, more importantly, not going to get.

-- j

Haven't figured out the multi quote. Doesn't seem to do anything when I click it.

Anyway, Only $75 for that much work? Then how much did you pay to the other guy to secure it?

Also, was there any language barrier?

Thanks

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TheArticlePros

14 years ago

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Scott Lyons

14 years ago

Originally Posted by JaRyCu

It's easy.

Click it on every post you want to quote, then hit 'post reply' under the last post.

The other guy wanted me to teach him some SEO & site things he didn't know, so I worked out a trade with him.

-- j

Thanks so much JaRyCu, You've been a great help!

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O0o0O

14 years ago

Yes, you could very well have your idea stolen just like the Zuckerberg did to the Winklevoss twins to make Facebook. But like other people said on here, get them to sign a non-disclosure agreement and check with your legal adviser. Then if they do steal your idea, you can sue them for a few million dollars.

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Scott Lyons

14 years ago

Originally Posted by O0o0O

Yes, you could very well have your idea stolen just like the Zuckerberg did to the Winklevoss twins to make Facebook. But like other people said on here, get them to sign a non-disclosure agreement and check with your legal adviser. Then if they do steal your idea, you can sue them for a few million dollars.

Hmm.. well if they had a few million dollars to pay out in any kind of settlement, I doubt they would be doing freelance coding.

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SafeSEOService

14 years ago

I am into Outsourcing Industry from past a year now.. I would suggest U to find a person who U can really trust and is not greedy.. Tell him the whole idea.. Get into an agreement and share a small portion of profit to him.. So that he will stay with U all the time when there is a bug to be fixed..

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Gold Man

14 years ago

Hello!

Just joined Warrior Forum and lovin' it.

I totally agree with all that has beem suggested. One aside.

I have had two software programs written by local college students.

I went to our local universty and posted an ad on an employment board and go three excellent applicants.

Hired one with a confidentiality agreement and we worked together.

I got what I wanted and he got some experience for his resume.

Still working out kinks, but all in all great so far.

Goldqueen

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betterwtveter

14 years ago

Yes I agree with everyone here that you need to have a binding contract to the freelancer to not sell or distribute your work.

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solomos

14 years ago

NDA do not work in programming in practice. Especially in countries outside US (Do you really believe that it is possible to catch a guy outside US if he copies and resells your code? And if so how?).

Anyway an idea can be altered by just changing a 10% of it! Look around you! Many copies/clones of any successful website. With just changed graphics.
Its actually like trying to place a copyright on a piece of code. This hasn't past in the past in the US or EU parliament. And you must thanks GOD for that! Even if you re not a programmer.
Think of our life with just Amazon (no other on line bookstore alternative), fb (no other social media) etc etc...

Find someone you can really trust. Find a real programmer that this is his job and that the only way he may use your code is to use some parts of your code to create a totally different product for another client. Not for them. Programmers do that all the time. Even your own code will have such parts from other projects as well. But that does not affects you at all. I m a pro programmer & manager outside US so I know what i m talking about.

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ezinerebel

14 years ago

I googled this very topic and a link to this thread led me here and I'm glad to see there is some great advice offered.

Naturally, I have the same concerns as the OP... but as someone has mentioned, there will/could be bugs that will need to be fixed so asking the creator to stick around for the extra work could be so interesting for him that he wouldn't consider "cheating" and he'd hopefully have other work to keep him busy anyway. As stated, they are not marketers.

Just like the OP my idea for a plugin is for my own personal use, but already a few people I know have asked for a copy

So obviously there could, (even a small one), be a market for it.

In such an event, it would make sense to keep the original creator around to update the plugin or add "customer requests" to it.

@ JaRyCu
Great advice you have given here. Much appreciated!

Would you care to share the name of the guys you used for your outsourcing? (I have only received quotes that go far beyond what you paid, and my idea is not complicated - for a coder, that is!)

Anyway - I'm glad I dropped by and will keep my eye on this thread for a while longer. Thanks for an informative read you guys

Thanks

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TheArticlePros

14 years ago

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ezinerebel

14 years ago

Originally Posted by JaRyCu

Glad I could help EZR! Here's a link to the programmer's vWorker page, which is where I found him:

About Worker Soft'n'Code

From looking at his history, it looks like he hasn't taken a job this year, though. You could email him and see if he responds. He's in Belarus, so his English wasn't 100%, but he was definitely able to communicate with very little problem at all.

-- j

Thanks a lot....!!!

Am on it right now.

Yeah - you helped a lot actually 'cos the quotes I received ranged from astronomical to "just out of my comfort zone" kinda thing, and when the quotes were for a plugin "for own use" the quotes, to be it mildly, were damned ridiculous!

But your info put me back in the game

Always nice to learn from someone who's been there, done that and bought the t-shirt.

Once again thanks and I'm sure your info will help the OP and others who want to walk the same path!

Thanks

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Marx Vergel Melencio

14 years ago

Scott,

I suggest going with an outsourcing company instead of a freelancer if you're concerned about the things you mentioned. Study the reputation of that company by identifying their previous and existing corporate, non-corporate and small business clients. Also take note of their employee resource base and clientele network base. I mean, if that company has 3-year contracts with prominent North American, European and Asian corporations, in which 80% of its manpower base is required for those contracts, 6-month contracts with 30 or so North American, Asian and European non-corporate clients and more than 100 or so small business clients, then:

They wouldn't most likely risk losing all that just to make a quick buck off you, no? I mean, compared to what they're getting and will continue to get with their reputation and existing clientele network (considering they're still open for new clients) against what they'll get if they rip you off or steal your ideas, they'd most likely stick to what they're getting and will get by ensuring that their clients are happy and that their reputation remains untainted, yes?

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iamrichard

14 years ago

yes, offer them a good price and a percnetage of profit, so they will stick with you. It is a big perk when your software has bugs to fix.
In most cases, those coders are weak at marketing and they do not want do marketing. So if you can provide good income stream for them, they will very happy to do business with you.

that is my 2 cents

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affilorama-portal

14 years ago

Trust is always an issue online and I understand the risk of getting your idea stolen. However, I also think that offering your programmer a good deal of price plus some percentage of your profit is quite a deal or win-win situation.

You can choose programers in freelancing sites that has work reviews in them. This way you can get an idea how professional and how honest that freelancer is.

Good luck!

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Olorin

14 years ago

Beyond what has been said already - one of the biggest issues in having a successful app is NOT the coding of the app itself, oddly enough. Even the IDEA is not really as critical as you might think. In these globalized markets, almost any idea you can think of and almost any code you could make already is out there lurking somewhere - the real key is in the EXECUTION of the idea and while that does involve clean coding it has a lot to do with things that a programmer in india or philippines are unlikely to have either the desire or skillset to go for - or they would likely be running with an app they had developed- which many indian and philippine entrepreneurs are indeed doing. point is, big difference between an entrepreneur and your average coder - and execution of the overall plan, including understanding what the app is useful for and how to market it properly is even more important than the code itself. If you dont believe me, ask Tim Paterson - the guy who created the DOS operating system that was sold to Bill Gates

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Question about outsourcing

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