WSO Quality Control (my rant)

by 125 replies
173
Sturgeon's Law says, "90% of science fiction is crud, but then again, 90% of everything is crud." However, even Mr. Sturgeon would be disappointed by the quality of the WSOs around here.

Understand, I have no problem with the idea of WSOs in general, and I'm glad that WF provides a forum in which to market them. IMers are a very real and large demographic, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with selling products or services to them. The problem comes in when WSO sellers learn a few tricks of the IM trade and misuse them - which results in products that are priced way above their value and programs that have no reasonable hope of success. It's time to take quality up a notch, and this is why:

First off, most sellers in this market segment rely on their next promotion for continued income. Of course there are exceptions: the truly outstanding products are sold from a single site for years, and almost all the long-term sales come from word of mouth. But if you have a crappy product, you can still keep the revenue coming in by releasing another crappy product in a month or two, as long as your list is big enough. You don't need a high response rate (just a quick response), and it doesn't cost any more to promote to a large list than to a small one. Good products or bad, the online game is won by the size of your list. The sellers with crappy products generally sell to the same group of customers again, and again, and again.

Another problem comes from misusing price points. A "coincidentally" large number of WSOs have one-time prices in the neighborhood of $200 and/or monthly prices of around $20. Obviously some of these are genuinely worth the price. But in other cases, the sellers are simply using market research data (gathered over many years) indicating that these are prices that the customers will readily accept.

The third problem is specific to various programs that have payouts: these can be legally delayed almost indefinitely if the program owners are less than ethical. For example, they can make the minimum check too large, demand extra paperwork, and slow down replies to associate requests by weeks (until many of them just give up). In the worst cases, some of these programs managed to go out of business before paying any commissions at all. When I see a pitch for something like "Give me $20 a month and I'll make you $10,000 a month in commissions," it amazes me that so many clients don't bother to wonder how you can take more money out of a program than there is money coming into it.

Anyway, that's my rant. The WF staff may or may not be able to do better quality control in the WSO forum, although I hope they can and are willing to. But even if not, you can now use what you learned above to spot the WSO snake oil.
#main internet marketing discussion forum #control #quality #rant #wso
  • The "reviews" that show up minutes after a WSO is posted kind of put me off too. It's hard to know where to pocket.
    • [3] replies
    • Sorry, but that is priceless!.....

      Yes they are real people, NO they are not real reviews!

      ......heard of JV'ing? I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush, obviously!, but seriously go to the forum now and find regular wso sellers, check out the first page of reviews and note down the warriors leaving them. Now find another by the same author, check the names of the warriors leaving reviews on that one.......you will see a pattern forming.

      Now check out the reviewers and see if they have released any wso's, the ones that have will have the original seller writing a review!........JV'ing in motion.

      Like i said, its not everyone, but very common! A little due dilligence uncovers all sorts!
      • [ 2 ] Thanks
    • This. It all comes down to buyer awareness. If less buyers fell for these tricks, we'd see a decline in the number of dodgy WSO's.
      • [1] reply
    • It can be true but there can be some members who are not satisfied with the WSO and left negitive feedback but in the WSO, that review does not show up. I have seen a lot of warrior complaining about different WSO's. There must be a way to get out all these problems.
      • [1] reply
  • Either you are confusing the WSO forum with some other forum, or I want what you're smoking.

    1.) Costs the same amount to mail a small list as it does to mail a big list...? No.
    2.) Market research? on HERE.... hahahahahahahahah.... I don't care who ya are, that's funny right thar
    3.) Misusing price points? Well on this we agree, just on completely opposite ends of the spectrum. The $10 100% commission model is the frieken HOLY GRAIL to WSO vendors and affiliates... not these high prices you're claiming.
    4.) legally withholding payouts indefinitely? Most WSO are served using instant commission platforms that pay affiliates instantly at the point of sale.

    <passes the bong>
    • [ 8 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • I'm willing to give you this one, because it's splitting hairs. The difference in cost is small enough not to have a significant impact on expected profit margins.

      Who said it came from HERE?
      No more bong for you!
      The actual price is almost beside the point. The point is that the value of what's being sold doesn't come close to the price.
      Every commission payer that wants to stay in business had better build in some kind of delay. And there are those who take that delay to ridiculous extremes.
      • [3] replies
  • Who is forcing you to participate? Simple solution. Don't play. End of rant comment.
    • [ 11 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • It's the simplest solution, yes. It's just not a very good one.

      Suppose there are some savvy entrepreneurs on WF who know how to spot the bad WSOs but are willing to buy a good one every so often.

      If they have to spend hours sifting through the crap simply to FIND the good ones, it's more likely that they won't play, and then both sides lose. At the end of the day, quality control has its benefits.
      • [3] replies
  • Everybody wants quality, but is it the Warrior Forum's job to review products advertising on their platform? I would say it is no more their job to test out every formula, method, and plugin being advertised as it is People Magazine's job to test every diet program advertised in their rag. The WF leaves the reviews up to the members.
    • [ 4 ] Thanks
    • [2] replies
    • Yes absolutely. It is their job to review products advertised on their platform. As a matter of fact it should be imperative that a number of (not just 1) WarriorForum mod's be given a review copy and check each and every WSO for quality control before it goes to market.

      When you sell your product as a "WSO" i.e. Warrior Special Offer you are putting the name and reputation of this forum on your product. If a low quality product dubbed an WSO is released it reflects poorly upon the Warriorforum AND the seller.

      You guys can defend this stuff to high heaven, and I'm sure some are removed for this reason but a lot slips through the cracks. It's a running gag in other regions of the internet about the quality of these kind of things. If it doesn't bother WF then so be it.
      • [1] reply
    • Very valid point Brian, well said.

  • I think the key thing many miss is that you shouldn't be buying wso's or any products for that matter unless you have identified a specific need and the product in question appears to solve it.

    I have bought a few wso's. When I have a need for something i go looking for a solution and find a few products that seem to fit the bill. Then i just compare those offers and pick a couple.

    Sure i get some duds, but i get a lot fewer disappointing products than most.

    Many here know me to be about as vocal critic on wso quality as anyone in these parts. I don't like the race to the bottom format of this marketplace at all. But it aint my marketplace. I think it makes it easy for people to be taken advantage of by other people. I think it makes it easy to skirt what should be "best practices" of the IM industry. But thats just my opinion.

    That being said, many people are disappointed with the results of products because of their own expectations going in. Some of that is the fault of the sale page copy and some of it is the fault of you the buyer who is looking for instant solutions to problems that cant be solved that way.

    If you are looking to make $2,378 dollars next week and you have never done IM, then you are going to be disappointed with just about every product you buy. No product is going to be able to take any meaningful number of people from 0 to $xxx or $xxxx in 30 days. Wake up.

    who is the dummy, the guy selling or the guy buying. There is an old french proverb that says "there are more fools among buyers than among sellers". See where I am going with this. Stop buying dreams.
    • [ 8 ] Thanks
  • Administrator
    When Google, all the tv stations in the world and all the magazines in the world start to test and prove all the products in the ads they accept, then we will figure out a way to do the impossible too.

    I find it hard to believe that there are so many people who can't see the insanity in this type of request..

    The only solution? - Accept absolutely NO advertising whatsoever.
    • [ 19 ] Thanks
    • [2] replies
    • I fully agree with your statement that its insane to think WF should be responsible for product quality. But at the same time, I my opinion, there are things that could be done to raise the level of transparency and and make the marketplace cleaner.

      The barrier of entry needs to be raised in order to raise the quality. With such a low barrier of entry, you will get lots of fly by night vendors and people who truly have no business advising others on how to make money online.

      You are a smart guy Allen. My guess is that to a man you would admit that some (more than a few) of these folks really shouldn't be selling "how to make money" products to unsuspecting people.

      I will bow out of this conversation now.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
    • Quality control is not the all-or-nothing proposition that you're making it out to be, Allen.

      No business on the planet treats it as such, including Google - which I assure you rejects tons of ads every day.
      • [2] replies
  • Seriously, if you can't separate the wheat from the chaff on your own then I don't like your chances of ever 'making it' on the Internet. I guess eBay should go around and inspect every single item before they allow them to be posted on their site? That's how silly what you are saying is.
    • [1] reply
    • Just because I know how to separate the wheat from the chaff doesn't mean that I should be wasting time doing it.

      And eBay has the legal muscle and the deep pockets to drag you through every court in your country if you mess with them. I'm betting WF has neither.
      • [3] replies
  • I love coming to these types of threads, if you are going to complain or rant about WSOs here is a solution don't buy WSOs too easy right
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Well, no, not exactly 'so easy.' We could talk about the 'perception' of the 'social proof' that is portrayed through the 'perceived' 'transparency' of doing business on a forum... except that, well... for all the 'sanctimarketing' on the web with regards to things like 'paid reviews,' - well, that's the way it worked in the brick and mortar world of business long before the Internet. Publicists paid to have stories planted about businesses, people, and products, to generate buzz... and if you're naive enough to think that 'smart' business like that isn't going to happen online, you're too naive to be in business to begin with. JMHO. It may be said to be 'against the rules' to do such a thing, report it and we'll take care of it, etc, etc etc... but it is how 'smart' business gets done and no amount of lips service to altruism is going to stop 'smart' business from doing smart business.

      We could also talk about David's point of the 'race to the bottom' format. As he said, it's not his marketplace, but how about the people whose marketplace it is? Have you not considered the amount of time and value that some members put into building a community with integrity and transparency, who have built stellar reputations for themselves, without 'affiliates' to promote their WSO's, and now are treated with skepticism and disdain because a whole lot of bad apples poisoned the whole tree?

      And now, the only way to get anyone to your fruit stand is to send out sentries to lure people into the town and lure new people in to eat the same poisoned fruit?

      Or you aren't getting any new blood into the town and the town dies.

      So, no, it's really not 'so easy.'

      Back when a product had to be for sale somewhere other than WSO forum before it would be approved as a WSO, was the best way to have quality control over WSO's. Again, JMHO.
  • We are the moderators. And we are quality control. As information becomes more abundant, the value of WSOs tends to go down. When the value is low, people tend to not want to pay as much for it.

    And in order to drive the value up that's where the reviews come in. The more honest reviews from respected, long time members of the community there are, the higher the value becomes in the eyes of the buyer.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Blind leading the blind.

      What could possibly go wrong?
  • It's really tough on the newbies like myself that have SOS (shiny object syndrome) I want to spend more money that I will make on stupid WSOs. Granted some of my success has come from one or two, but for the most part, they are a rehash of free info 60-80% of the time.
  • Some WSOs will be better than others. I've bought a WSO from a respected marketer online, but was disappointed in the product. Nevertheless, it didn't stop me from looking for other WSOs to purchase. You just have to use some logic when deciding on what kind of WSO you're looking to buy.
    • [1] reply
    • Allen,

      A lot of the screamers don't care what's true. Anything short of perfection is seen by them as a sign of evil. And if there weren't anything to scream about, they'd scream that the rules were too tough, and we were stomping on "the little guy."

      It would be interesting to see how many of them would have the stamina to moderate for even a month and stay anything close to rational or... well... moderate.


      Paul
      • [ 2 ] Thanks
      • [2] replies
  • There are plenty of strong, i should say negative, comments warning about the WSO to the potential buyers, if that particular WSO doesn't stand up to its claim..

    1. The WF is very genuine that it does not remove it so as to help buyers from being trapped and also to make the marketplace unbiased and fair.

    2. Warriors are also advised to clearly indicate if they were given a review copy

    3. Paul Myers (i think) has clearly notified WSO creators on WF rules on PLR products, abuse of extended license software.

    What more you can expect?
  • by "raising the barrier of entry" I don't necessarily or even primarily mean money.

    Any requirement or "check" that makes it just a little harder to become a wso vendor will affect the weaker merchants much more than the true businesses and such that no one wants to see go away from the wso section.

    Thats the case with most things in life. We lock our doors to our cars and houses even though there are huge windows anyone can easily through a rock through.

    The point of locking the door (ie...taking steps to raise the barrier of entry) is not to make your house truly safe and impenetrable. Its simple to make you less of a target of opportunity.

    The wso section is largely a target of opportunity for the bottom of the barrel merchants. The door is pretty open and the barrier of entry is just so low that it attracts lots of weak merchants selling weak products. Products that can't even pass the CB approval process are sold via the wso board. And lets be honest the CB threshold is not that tough.
  • The quality control should NOT be done by WF admins, but by customers and their purchasing common sense.

    Example:

    Example #1: A few weeks back, I found a WSO of a guy claiming that he could teach you how to create a 6-figure business in a weekend. So I asked him for proof that he's actually running a 6-figure business himself. Guess what? he declined to show any proof. And guess what else? people did not mind that and they still continued buying his "training", even though he had no proof whatsoever that he could deliver his claim.

    Example #2: There's right now a WSO from a guy who sells training on "How to increase your email open rates". And as a proof, he shows screenshots from his Aweber account showing how he's scoring a 10% open rate with his emails... A 10% open rate is utter rubbish, yet many people are buying his "training" on email marketing.

    See my point? the problem is not the lack of control by WF Admins. The problem is the lack of any common sense whatsoever by the typical WSO buyer.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • The individuals responsible for running and policing this forum have an obligation to their patrons to ensure that anything that has the WarriorForum brand on it.. i.e. WSO reflects positively on the community otherwise it should not be given that title.

      It's not about common sense, it's about preserving the integrity of the brand. It poisons the well so to speak. If WF doesn't agree with me, that's ok but in another universe I'd do things differently.
  • Banned
    [DELETED]
    • [ 9 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • So what? Does everyone have to purchase a scam to know that it's a scam?

      Gee. How about because the owners make money from the WF and I don't?

      (For the record, the few WSOs I have purchased were lackluster, but not unethical in any apparent way. Again, so what?)
      • [3] replies
  • If anyone trys to give a honest review, they're ridiculed by the warrior community... so you really can't win.
    • [2] replies
    • Banned
      [DELETED]
    • Administrator
      I should ban you for that statement. Give the bottomfeeders something to rant about on their blogs.

      Ridiculed by the Warrior community for posting an honest review? Really?

      Would you be so kind as to point these out for me?
    • Tell that to the sellers who scream at me nearly every day because I tell them I won't delete negative reviews from actual buyers.

      ClueTime, Jack: Go through just the first two pages of the WSO section, and look at the longer threads. See how many negative reviews are still posted. Then, when you've done the damned math, come back and spout some more.

      Of course, someone from the US who can't even spell "tries" correctly can't be expected to distinguish between positive, negative, and "honest." Or why it's illegal to use copyrighted images as an avatar on a forum.

      [insert std:catsname]


      Paul
      • [2] replies
  • Must say I've left negative comments on numerous WSOs (hey, I'm fussy) and haven't been knocked or ridiculed for putting them up.

    I'd say the majority of WF members appreciate honest (and negative if true) reviews.
  • Administrator
    This thread is like trying to get a cow to go 'moo' by blowing up its ass...
    • [ 8 ] Thanks
    • [2] replies
    • Banned
      [DELETED]
      • [ 2 ] Thanks
    • I really gotta quit reading posts while I'm drinking something. That made me spew Dr Pepper all over my keyboard. Good thing I have 3 extras laying around... rofl
    • [DELETED]
    • Haha! I totally agree, there was no point in this thread.

      "Moo"
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Banned
    [DELETED]
  • Banned
    [DELETED]
  • IMO, if WSOs cost $40 to post, then WSO rants should cost $80 to post.
    • [ 5 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Best suggestion I have read today

      Di
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Banned
    I´m strictly against creating products that scream the language of no work means more money. A newbie doesn´t have the ability to know what´s best for him yet. A newbie believes that everything that seems to make money fast is the best solution for right now. Well, we know too go that that´s not true.

    Claiming that your product will make any person $10,000 in a month is pure arrogance. It develops the wrong mindset in us, and unfortunately so many people by into the mindset that buying a product will generate them the results, whether they take action or not.

    You as a product creator have absolutely no power over how well your buyers will apply the information you teach. So claiming that anyone will achieve a certain income level, regardless of their experience or work ethic, is the same as claiming that every person will die at age 65. It´s simple not true.

    Just because something works well for you, doesn´t mean it will work equally well for every person.

    The most deadly mindset you can develop is actually holding you back from working hard and developing skills. Some people have solid income proof for what they do and don´t make exaggerated claims.

    You, and you alone choose which marketing language you use and the language you choose determines the customers you attract. The choice is yours.
  • Banned
    [DELETED]
  • C'mon people. No one has trolled this thread in over 20 minutes. I'm trying to avoid work here. How can I do that if you all fail to entertain me?

    I want a refund.
    • [ 3 ] Thanks
  • Of for God's sake... this is one of the most ridiculous threads I've ever read.

    First of all, there are some very legitimate reasons for using 'pen names' online, even in an Internet Marketing or business forum. In the Information Age of identity theft and cyberstalking, if you think someone should be willing to put their family at risk just because you're sitting up on some sanctimonious high horse pretending it doesn't happen and looking at the world through rose tinted glasses, you are beyond 'naive.'

    Second of all, yes, there are oft times when people are ridiculed and bullied for expressing a negative opinion about something. Sometimes it's 'almost' justified because the negative review is one formed by someone uneducated on the subject (like idiots who bitch about OTO's and upsells, or who 'demand' proof that is someone IS running a six figure business to prove they know HOW to do it...the scientific processes have existed for at least 200 years, and have worked for thousands of businesses in thousands of industries... they're called 'fundamentals'), but sometimes the person making the claim is 'dead on ba**s accurate with their comment, and there is no justification to attack them, yet it does happen. Those are called 'cronies' and again, if you don't think they exist, you are 'beyond naive.'

    Nope, it's not Warrior Forum's job to police the schoolyard playground. There are without a doubt some 'crony' networks here, and everywhere else too. You can't look to WaFo, or the 'community' to protect you from it though, and I don't think that's what JackTheFrost meant at all... I think he just made the observation that it does happen, not that he expected WaFo to do anything about it. Of course, considering the OP in this thread he might be suggesting, or someone might be inferring, that he 'meant' to say that 'cleaning up the WSO forum would put an end to that." But it won't.

    There will always be 'cronies,' or where I come from in the South, what we call "The Good Ole' Boy Network," because the nature of business is to form 'strategic alliances' with other businesses to capitalize on each other's strengths and offset each other other's weaknesses.

    In a store, you buy a product there, you return it there, not to the manufacturer or supplier.

    In a publication, where you buy directly from a manufacturer or a supplier, you return the product to the manufacturer or supplier. NOT the 'publication.'

    Allen, YES PLEASE, to getting rid of comments in the WSO forum.

    While you're at it, please bring back the old rule that the product had to be proven to be selling somewhere else to prove that it's a Warrior SPECIAL Offer...

    And get rid of affiliate program integrations with WSO's...

    That will get rid of the amateur vendors creating crappy loss leaders and crappy sales funnels to 'get the [same] list' of the crappy loss leader buyers that the amateur affiliates have so they can all hammer the Hell out of their list with every crappy loss leader product of the day... and that will get rid of the amateur loss leader bright shiny object buyers who bitch about sales processes...
    • [1] reply
    • Danielle,Yep. And I have many times stated that I have no problem with people using anonymous usernames if they're not selling or bashing. My comment about Mr/Ms Jackson's username was in reference to the concern about what others say in response. Why would an anonymous person be worried about such things?Blame it on the lack of oxygen. The air is pretty thin up here on my high horse.

      I would be interested in knowing which comment of mine, if any, you might think denies that this happens. I don't think anyone in this thread has denied it, actually.

      If you're going to argue with someone, it is best to stick to arguing about things they actually said.

      Johnny,You're kidding, right?

      I won't presume to speak for Allen on the subject, but you have to be a lot nastier than that for me to do anything about a response directed at me. Especially after I've been as sarcastic with the person as I was with JackTheFrost.

      I think it was well-deserved in this case, but that doesn't mean he's suddenly not allowed to speak his mind. He didn't step over any of the lines in the process.


      Paul
      • [1] reply
  • Jill you have way too much time on your hands. Have a seat.
    • [1] reply
    • Hey Paul... again, sorry for delayed reply... took kiddos to a Halloween festival. Actually NONE of my comments were directed at you... none at all. Though I am still going to disagree with you on the pen names to the point of 'selling.'

      Too many 'psycho ex-husbands' in the world. I wouldn't presume to stop a single mom from making a living behind a pen name if she had to do that to keep herself hidden from said psycho ex-husband.

      JMO... as for the rest, nope, not even remotely directed at you. And I know that you never denied the 'crony' factor.
      • [1] reply
  • I think too many people forget that the WSO section is just a marketplace. Buyer beware.

    The transaction is between buyer and seller. WF only provides a platform for advertising and communication. To expect them to protect you from yourself is absurd.

    Having said that - I think if all income claims were banned (I make this by doing this, or I can teach you to make this, etc) would go a long way to getting rid of the scammers.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Banned
    [DELETED]
  • I LOVE shitty WSOs. They make the good ones look even better.

    As for asking admin to reinstate the requirement a WSO must be selling elsewhere, that stops nothing. It would take me all of 2 minutes to repost my WSO on an alternative domain charging $1 more than the WSO price. Getting rid of affiliate programs is also impossible since a seller is entitled to use any payment processor they want. Besides, the affiliate programs are hugely responsible for the huge growth of this forum over the last few years. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
    • [1] reply
    • $1.00 isn't 'substantially lower.' As per the rules. So that ploy wouldn't work.

      Affiliate programs are NOT 'payment processors.' They're two different things and at one time, before 2010, you could only use PayPal to buy WSO's.

      And the 'huge growth' = more amateurs, rookies and cowboys. They don't 'feed' you, they create a stranglehold on you.

      You're entitled to your opinion, but the fact it is back when those WERE the rules, there weren't nearly as many stupid buyers bitching about stupid things that aren't wrong, but are done wrongly buy stupid sellers.

      Let me just repeat this so it's clear: Those WERE the rules at one time, and they DID work.

      Personally, I don't have a dog in this show. I got fed up with the 'Affiliate Cartel' insisting that every product be treated as a loss leader, priced at $10 or under and demanding 100% commission to promote it, which is now the only way to even get a wso 'seen.

      If I ever post a WSO again, it will only be with a product that has been sold on the open market already, has proven to be selling at a higher price point thus going back to the original 'special' part of the offer for warriors only.

      One more thing... the whole world is a 'marketplace.' So by some people's 'logic,' you should use your own 'judgment' when choosing a doctor or a lawyer, they shouldn't need to be licensed or regulated.

      The fact is when 'businesses' start doing stupid things that take advantage of and/or cause harm to the general public, just because they aren't regulated and they can, is when they suddenly become regulated so they can't.
      • [3] replies
  • You may not entirely understand the purpose of a WSO.

    The WSO market is not designed to be where you get your products. It is designed to be where vendors get their lists.

    See, there are a number of different stages in being an internet marketer, and one of them is where you buy a lot of products.

    If you are too stupid to understand that "you pay for what you get," you will buy $5 product after $5 product after $5 product until you figure that out. This is what the WSO forum primarily provides.

    If you are too stupid to understand that a business does not come in a neat little package tied up with a bow, you will buy products at all kinds of price points until you figure that out. This is what the vendor lists built from the WSO forum provide.

    Then you figure out that what you need is a good mentor, a solid mastermind group, and maybe a month or two of private coaching. And you'll drop a LOT of money on the mentor and the coaching before settling into a steady, ongoing stream of payments to the mastermind group. And both the WSO forum and the vendor lists will occasionally wave these at you to see if you've gotten there yet.

    Your first couple of WSOs are going to be pretty damn cool, because they're new and exciting. Then you settle into "this is the same crap over and over." Yes. Yes, it is. And it works, in the short term. Enough to buy bigger and better products off the list.

    Those work, too, in kind of a mid-term way. You cement your vocabulary and your understanding of the field. You learn how the pieces fit together and what a working business looks like. And hopefully, you learn what YOUR working business is going to look like. This leads you to one or two vendors that resonate with you and can help you build that business.

    They will be your mentors. Maybe you will pay them, maybe you will just stalk them all over the internet and consume all their marketing materials left and right, maybe you will even develop a personal relationship with them and be able to ask them questions just because you like to talk marketing together. However it works, you will find the right mastermind (and the right coach, if necessary) to bring that business into reality.

    But people are impatient, so we have a lot of WSO vendors who are still in those first two stages. They wouldn't work through the stages and get to the next level. They never grasped what their business is supposed to be or what they want it to look like. They are simply grabbing their piece of the $5 WSO pie, or the listbuilding pie, or even the mastermind / membership pie... before they really know what it is they do or why.

    That's the 90% crap in that area. The rest of it is crap to you because you're probably ready to move on. It's time for you to dig into your archive of collected WSOs and find something you are going to focus on and make work, so you can get a couple hundred dollars that you will spend on bigger and better products through the vendor lists you've joined. And then you will select one or two of those products, and use them to generate a couple thousand dollars so you can get to the next level.

    WSOs really do work. They just don't do what most people think they do.
    • [ 3 ] Thanks
    • [2] replies
    • Caliban,Small correction: That's how it's used by many of them, but not what it was designed for.


      Paul
      • [ 4 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
    • Dude, one of the most astute, deadly accurate posts I've seen in a long, long time. Thanks, I enjoyed reading it. That may be because I felt like I could have written it
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
  • This thread caught my attention as I recently launched a WSO that isn't performing (see link below)... Yet none of the above complaints seem to fit what I am offering. I think its mostly because of price and I am an unknown...

    Anyway in regards to the comment above about every WSO should be tested by WF before being allowed to be sold. Just from a standpoint of effort that wouldn't work. Also how many test sites would WF need to test the countless services, read the hundreds of ebooks and then test what they say to do which could takes months or even a year, by which time everything in IM changed again and what it was is no longer valid ... so forth ... I think all WF should do is ensure the product meets the policy and does not seem like some scam.
  • Banned
    [DELETED]
    • [1] reply
    • WillR
      Huge growth and record numbers of sales are not always in the best interest of the marketplace or the businesses operating within it.

      The Internet makes it 'easy' for the amateurs, and affiliate programs make it easier still.

      And when 'amateurs' experience huge growth and record sales, they often don't have the experience to handle it and they drown in the growth process. And sometimes, they end up taking innocent people down with them.

      Amateurs may have built the arc, but watch when everyone starts building amateur arcs... then realize they can sell tickets...until one of those amateurs didn't build it right, the boat sinks and people get hurt, or worse.

      You may be fine with that. You may be of the mind that it's the fault of the people who bought the ticket and got on the boat in the first place.

      Many are not of that mindset.

      This is why we have this thing called "liability." It doesn't matter if you think people shouldn't be 'allowed' to 'sue' the arc, but they are, and if they win, the business can be held liable.

      And if it happens too much, law steps in and introduces regulation. Which
      is good, at first. But then, regulation gets stupid too.


      Paul,
      Yes, as a percentage, maybe the same. As I said to Will, bigger isn't always better.

      I'd rather have less sales and better, tighter customer bases than 5,000
      $10 bargain basement buyers crap the affiliate cat dragged in.

      But that's just me. Like I said, if I post a WSO again, it will only be a product that I've already sold on the open market, and has 'proven' itself, with stats to back it up.

      George,
      That was way before my time. I think I started lurking here in 2005-2006.
      My mentor though, was one of the original members here, back when it was
      a private forum and people had to pay to get in. I believe she said she paid $95 or $100. She is the one who told me that it had to be proven to be 'selling' somehwere else before it would be approved as a WSO.

      She could be wrong too. Like you said, it was a long time ago.

      I've more than once considered making my products 'physical products' to
      offset the refund rates. But I'm weak on fulfillment skills. I'd love it
      if you would be willing to share some intel with me on the subject. I've
      looked at a few fulfillment services, but they read like stereo instructions
      to me. :confused:
      • [2] replies
  • Banned
    [DELETED]
  • IMHO its not up to the Warrior Forum to "police" WSO's because the forum is very much Caveat Emptor, just like everywhere else on the net. If you dont like it, dont buy from the WSO folder. The reality is that there will always be some WSO's that fall short and some that over-deliver. I believe that imposing more rules and regulations will just cut down on the quality ones being released here instead of just direct to their lists.

    There is massive value to be had here for those that wish to take the time to read and make an informed decision based on that sellers long term feedback.

    Anyway, just my 2 cents
  • Banned
    [DELETED]
  • Well Will, I consider taking one sentence out of an entire 3 paragraphs, and then retorting to that without any acknowledgement to those 'supporting' three paragraphs, stupid and rude.

    Perhaps it's a culture thing.

    Yes, I remember your suggestion to stop allowing people to post their affiliate links.

    Good job.

    As Paul already told you, disabling affiliate programs is not impossible.

    As I already said previously, what I propose actually WAS the way it was and DID work.

    And now, I am done.
  • [DELETED]
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • And therein lies the problem............
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • What is the STANDARD for Quality Control in IM products?

    What is the Price STANDARD please?

    I'd like to be informed about and buy your WSO/Product advising how to build a product that people will know by name, say by name and promote by name. Please don't price it above $7.

    Did you follow exactly what any of those says and failed to get promised result?

    Promote only after using the products yourself. And choose from reliable affiliate network.

    Are you looking for a job as a moderator in WSO? Why not apply with your detailed resume?

    Let's forget the snake oil for a moment and spot some Cod Liver Oil in the WSO section so we can get some vitamins.
  • [DELETED]
  • My solution...don't buy WSO's that don't have money back guarantee. Doesn't work for you...? Get a refund. Simple.
  • Wow - I don't hang out over here in the 'fun' side as much as I used - I miss these wonderful head banging sessions here!

    I've been a member since waaay longer than the date on my profile - I was actually a 'HostForProfit' client for years (how many of you have never heard of that??). Check around..

    I spend a great deal of time in the WSO section - and while I have indeed bought some real lame products - I have also bought some truly amazing products (especially software) that we use daily in our business for pennies on the dollar. Were they all perfect when we bought them? NO! But honestly, when you buy something that cheap, I expect to spend a little time with the developer, and for the most part - the Warriors have been very good at fixing glitches and squishing bugs.

    I cannot say the same about some expensive junk purchased outside the forum at full price. There is no accountability and so they don't care.

    And I see that as major benefit of buying WSOs - there is a certain level of transparency in that you can see who has purchased, who has had issues etc. I probably get pm'd a dozen times a week about a WSO I purchased - and yes, I tell the whole truth! This transparency does force a certain level of accountability - it's not perfect, but nothing is.

    The WSO section seems to go through 'waves' of great products, crap, fraud etc. I've bought some highly acclaimed dogs by well known senior Warriors - and some absolute gems by total unknowns.

    It's a crapshoot - but to be honest - it's my money. I have several active brain cells most days, and I am capable of making these buy decisions on my own. I do not expect Paul or Alan or anyone else to slog through every thing offered to make sure it is all of the very best quality - that's not practical or realistic.

    Maybe WSOs are designed for the sole purpose of building someone else's lists but if that is the case - they sure do screw up occasionally 'cuz I have gotten some damned good products over there.

    But don't tell anyone, okay? That just might screw things up......

    Mel
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Melody

    Raises hand.

    Edit... I see you said never not ever...

    Lowering hand.

    George Wright
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [2] replies
    • Dave,Very true, as long as they stay within the bounds of civility. You'll note, for example, that your post wasn't deleted. We encourage suggestions for positive change. We use the ones that are practical and will have an actual positive effect.

      Thing is, almost everything that's suggested has been offered before, and we've done the ones that we heard and would work. And quite a few that didn't work. So, as time goes on, more and more of the suggested changes are things that have been looked at, sometimes tried, and found to be impractical. Or, in many cases, would have negative effects.

      One of the biggest problems is that people don't know this stuff, and they get angry when they see something that doesn't look right to them, when they believe "fixing it" would be easy. That's a natural response. It is almost always the case that, when things are explained, they at least understand why they're done the way they are.

      There's a lot more to keeping the balance in a place this big than most people ever have to think about. Or ever should have to.


      Paul
    • LOL - we are showing our age, George!!

      Mel
  • the quality of the wso depends on the product creator, it's the person's to make a reasearch from who he's going to purshase, there are way goos products here but still garbage too. peoblem of people here is the wso addiction , and trust me some here keep byuying without even using their products,!! so it's not about the wso

    cheers
Join the discussion

Next Topics on Trending Feed

  • 173

    WSO Quality Control (my rant)

    Sturgeon's Law says, "90% of science fiction is crud, but then again, 90% of everything is crud." However, even Mr. Sturgeon would be disappointed by the quality of the WSOs around here. Understand, I have no problem with the idea of WSOs in general, and I'm glad that WF provides a forum in which to market them. IMers are a very real and large demographic, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with selling products or services to them. The problem comes in when WSO sellers learn a few tricks of the IM trade and misuse them - which results in products that are priced way above their value and programs that have no reasonable hope of success. It's time to take quality up a notch, and this is why: