It depends on which "guru" it is...Some wanna-be's exagerate all day long because they are not who they really say they are...

I would say most "guru's" that flash the huge numbers are not telling every little tiny detail of exactly how they achieved those numbers...I suspect the ones that full on fudge the numbers are very far and few between...But that is just my humble opinion.

Gavin

Some gurus do have a tendency to exagerate. For example, one guru mentioned that their business makes over 7 figures a year, yet they couldn't pay their taxes. How do I know, I googled the corporation's name and I got more informationed that I bargained for. Definitely a big eye opener.

YES, and, therefore, you should, too. UNLESS, your goal is relationship building. Theirs is not... it's profit-building. Either way is fine, it's just important to know the distinction.

Best wishes,
Eric

Great post thus far...Interesting!

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I think many gurus like to talk GROSS rather than NET.

I don't mean actual after-all-expenses net, but at least take out the 50% or better you've paid in affiliate fees. ...another big cost not even mentioned is often Advertising cost.

So, when a guru says, "I did 1.3 million in 6 hours" or whatever, it would be more accurate to say, " I did $650,000 in 6 hours after affiliate fees and ad costs".

But since that doesn't sound as impressive, its not likely to be adopted. :-)
_____
Bruce

Its always the exaggerated posts that can persuade individuals especially the newbies. But in my opinion, i don't actually believe that it is true. In most cases, it might be impressive but that does not mean that the figures are existing. It might not be impossible but it is highly improbable.

I think its obvious if you keep watching the blurb the "gurus" send that they show you the same accounts over and over.

I agree with Bruce on this one I know a few marketers myself that make 7 figures and have to say they do all talk in gross for at the end of the year when taxes come due its hard to know those numbers ahead of time. Selling a product for $97 really boils down to about $50 with taxes taken out again always sounds depressing lol

I don't think the most respected gurus would be stupid enough to exaggerate their numbers because if they were found out that would put a massive black mark next to their name. And they've spent years building their reputation.

People like John Reese (when he was more involved), Paul Myers, Jeff Walker and the like are people I trust.

For me if a person lies about their numbers then they're not a Guru. They're a conman. Some people are unethical. That's just part of life. However I think the most people are honest and trustworthy. And the people who do lie and exaggerate will be found out eventually so it's not going to benefit them in the long run.

NEVER believe the screenshots of Clickbank/CJ/Paypal earnings. They make bogus figures using a simple line of javascript in the browser. Here, have a go yourself - You Too Can Be a Clickbank Millionaire

I really find it hard to beleive these gurus even cross $100,000 with a single product....
50k.. maybe... but only a complete bad ass product can hit six figures.....

I think the "guru's" stuff is all hype, and they make all their money by selling their schemes, systems, ebooks, DVDs, etc. to us pigeons.

I don't think of myself as a guru. However when I show my numbers they are legit and verifiable.

It's pretty easy to fudge a stats screenshot which is why i use video captures of my stats.

Sure some people use fake stats even fake testimonials. Part of the process is to make a judgement for yourself about the overall credibility of the guru and their offer.

No, I am not saying "...graphics, videos, testimonials, audio, and video means that somehow people are being unethical and lying about their numbers." I am saying that is evidence that those elaborate marketing sites cost a lot in manpower and money to put together. If the system they are selling is so good, why are they diverting so much time, energy and money in a sales pitch instead of USING their own system to make more money? It just is NOT logical. If they were so altruistic and eager to teach, they would be spreading the knowledge freely.

Hi Kevin,

Take everything that you read in a sales letter or promotional email with a pinch of salt. If making money online was as easy as the gurus claim it to be we wouldn't be spending so much time in this forum - we'd be sitting in the sun in the Miami sunshine on the lawn of our luxury villa enjoying a bottle of Crystal.

To be fair a positive sway on things is what marketing is all about. However, some of the excessive over exageration is a little too near the mark in my opinion preying on vulnerable people that don't have the ability or experience to know any better.

Just think about some of the methods that the gurus teach - i.e. making up stories! This is marketing and it does go on. However, it's a fair assumption that if they adopt these tactics when marketing non-IM related products they are also using the same tactics on you.

Best way to get an unbiased review of a product is to check out the product reviews section of Warriorforum. Just beware comments from a people with a signature to a site promoting the product under discussion. Nevertheless there does seem to be an unspoken rule in this forum that you should never bash the gurus. Complete nonsense in my opinion and they should be judged purely on the quality of their help and advice and not just on their often highly overinflated reputation.

Thanks,

Andy

Me personally I believe that the gurus who are classed as the gurus dont exagerate the truth...

What I will say in agreement with another comment above is that the figures told are the sales figures not profit figures.... A comment was made to me before that on my blog I was selling myself short because I posted on my blog that I made around $1700 in 1 affiliate promotion I did.... This person told me I should be stating I made $3400 in the affiliate promotion !

This is not telling any lies, its very true I did generate $3400 for that promotion... But the facts are that my cut was $1700, I think you will agree though that the first statement looks better for me.

Both are true, 1 looks more impressivebut none are lies !

I think a lot of newbies will try and show fake proof as they maybe feel they have to compete with the gurus but I dont feel any top marketers need to exagerate or lie

Dean

If you generated $3400 in gross sales and your "cut" was $1700, then YOU made $1700, to say otherwise would be a LIE. Also, implying that $1700 is you net profit, and neglecting to mention $150 of promotional costs (which would make your NET profit $1550), would also be very misleading.

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We will never know the answer to your question.. and the more we discuss it, the more peoples minds are going to be warped by the twisted opinions of others..

Believe it or not.. it's up to you how much income claims bear on your decision making about a person.

Peace

Jay

On the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone and pretend to earn lots of money. But I am sure, there are alot of geniune gurus here they earn good money.

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Generaly internet numbers these days are resonnably easy to track and verify yourself. Weather its a website with Quantcast.com or compete.com or other numbers there are tools out there to help you monitor if what people say are real.

I think part of the problem is believing that
the amount you see on the clickbank screen-
shots is going directly into the bank.

We sometimes forget about the taxes we have
to pay. This doesn't necessarily mean the
guru's aren't being honest either.

I think a problem is that if you make $2,000
per day but it takes you $1,000 to make that
you need to disclose that. I think some Adwords
products are actually doing this now.

To put it simply...I only care about the net, period. It changes the whole mind frame of whether or not the numbers are believable. It's like when you have a job and you get your paycheck and see the gross. Sure, it looks nice, but darn if it helps when it's time to spend it. Feel me??? Hope ya do.

Dave and Ktlasm,

I could not agree with you more!

I was originally talking about DIRECT SALES COSTS, not the business expenses we are all faced with, like: office supplies, utilities, telephone, yes, and even TAXES.

If I told you I would sell you a system for $97 (assuming it had this REALLY LONG marketing page with all kinds of testimonials, screen shots of AdSense payments, videos, and audios). that would bring in $100 a day in AdSense earnings, would you buy it?

After buying this wonderful system, what would you say if you then found out I "neglected" to disclose that it cost $150 a day in AdWords expense to generate that level of GROSS income? That's a DIRECT $50/day NET LOSS!

There is no way any reasonable person can defend such deception by omission.

No Way...Guru's Dont Inflate The Numbers...

I REALLY did make a kazillion dollars per second
from using twitter

Take Care,

Michael Silvester

Another thing that some of them neglect to tell you when presenting their HUGE AdSense, ClickBank, and other affiliate earnings, is that it took 5 YEARS (or more) to build up to that level of earnings!

Jason,

Kudos to you for accomplishing that level of income in just one year. I'm not about making the millions like the big dogs either. I just want to provide some supplemental income in my retirement.

What do you mean by: "promoting some continuity programs"?

Yall wont believe this: Mario Xiao Fake Clickbank’s Proof of Earnings

Well, I will admit...I've bought into a small number of the kind of thing we're talking about here...But, I was much younger and naive...I'm sure that it's not something any of you did now is it...LOL

Don't believe their hype!

There is an old saying in IM...'Fake it till you make it'.

so do you think some gurus exaggerate?

Is the information outright faked? Then the advertising is fraudulent. In my opinion, best response is to throw the book at 'em.

If the gross dollar amounts are accurate but not typical, then the ad might be in the letter of the law - but still misleading. Ethical mutual funds include both average returns and standard deviation, making it possible to build a risk-adjusted portfolio. I don't see any reason why some indication of typical range and outliers shouldn't be the norm in business opportunity advertising as well. Aren't we all trying to increase our portfolio of business activities for the best risk-adjusted return?

If the gross amounts are accurate but the ad glosses over the expenses necessary, I believe that's also unethical. One of the things I appreciate about Gary Halbert's old newsletters, and the way his sons are continuing, is that there's an honest exposition of what the costs were for their projects, not just the revenues.

And as several people have commented, it's also important to have some context: how long did it take the build up to those numbers? Was the person already a guru, who had the knowledge and infrastructure to best apply a new technique immediately?

To me, putting this level of detail in a money-opportunity ad is the ethical standard.

Regards,
Allen

I think alot of gurus are reverse gurus. Most gurus will first suck you in with tales of how much money they have, how they dont work but 1 day a month, how they have all this extra time to watch their supermodel girlfriend polish their porsche outside their waterfront home. well actually that last part is just my fantasy..but you see where i'm coming from. You 'see' all that wealth and think 'if he can do it, i can too' and thats what the guru tells you as well.

The part they seem to leave out is that their money will actually come afterwards. When you first see the offer, its probably a guy squeaking by living in a efficiency apartment and living on balogna and kool aid. But after he gets a couple thousand people to believe his tale of riches THEN he's got a lot of money.

For instance, if you have ever read 'rich dad, poor dad'..and many have. The author never had a 'rich dad'. The author also didnt have any money when he wrote that book to tell you how he got his riches. Actually his wife had a fair amount of money because she sold real estate.

but after a couple hundred thousand people were sucked in by his story, THEN he became the guy he was talking about in his books

So Kiyosaki is just a yarn-spinner? I'd like to a reference about this one.

Regards,
Allen

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I'm not sure what the point of this question is, but I'll tell you what I've seen first hand. When you're talking about income, the well known Internet marketers fall into 4 categories:

1. Humble Dumpty - Those that make even more than they claim (or make a buttload and don't even mention it) and actually play DOWN their income to increase believability or just keep a lower profile. I know of 2 personally that have done this: F.K and C.M.

2. The Braggarts - Those that do well enough but still exaggerate their income by not subtracting affiliate commissions, outsourcing, etc and just talk about gross dollars.

3. The Roller Coasters - Those that live a life of feast or famine between launches. I've met guys that have had 6-figure launches in the past, that were sharing hotel rooms and begging meals at seminars while grumbling about not being paid affiliate commissions.

4. The Coat Tailers - These guys know a lot of people and by association manage to build lists and get known, but they can't seem to get a product together and launch it. They're scraping by on well under $100k a year, attending seminars and having good time but never getting over the hump.

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Yeah it really depends on the individual "guru". Some definitely do fake their earnings and I think alot of newbies also have the fake it till you make it mindset. Its funny how many times ive seen the same fake check scans on some different IM sites

Thanks, Michael.

I think the series is useful for people stuck in a mental rut about money, to inspire them to the possibility of thinking in bigger, more empowering ways. It's short on specifics, but a few of the individual distinctions - such as the "cashflow quadrant" concept - have been useful for me.

If Rich Dad was sold as fiction and better edited, I'd actually find it more compelling.

Regards,
Allen

Rod, There are at least three really important reasons.

First, if the claims are used to promote a product or service for sale, and the claims are false, that's outright fraud.

Second, unrealistic claims may set up unrealistic expectations in people who then conclude they have to give up because they couldn't match the gurus' hype.

Third, unrealistic claims may get clients of legitimate vendors to bypass products or services that could really be useful, though not nearly as spectacular as the made-up results.

All three outcomes could hurt the expectations and reputations of good people who are sincere and honest.

Regards,
Allen

Love all the post...In deed a plethora of opinions one will definitely enjoy when they find this thread...Informative as well...Ciao!