Rent A Site - Simple, Easy Offline Residuals Any One Can Do Right Now $$$ | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

15 years ago

Hi,

Good idea. The last few months I talked to several local business owners about setting up a site. That means having meeting after meeting with lots of talk and hardly any money. This way you solved that problem beautifully! Kudos for that!

Yours, warriorly, Ed

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billionareHuman

15 years ago

but do you actually make more by renting it rather than putting up affiliate links? If you're ranking nicely that should be some nice affiliate money for you, I guess you could do both! maximizing profits!

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1 reply

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Darth Executor

15 years ago

Originally Posted by billionareHuman

but do you actually make more by renting it rather than putting up affiliate links? If you're ranking nicely that should be some nice affiliate money for you, I guess you could do both! maximizing profits!

You can't get affiliates for everything. Some keywords would help offline businesses more. If someone wants a doctor, they want a doctor, not a clickbank ebook. And it's a lot easier to rank for local searches since most people go for the more abundant "international" searches, so there's less work involved.

Thanks

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MichaelHiles

15 years ago

This has been my business model for many years GoGetta. I serve the SMB market and have price ranges in the $99 a month to $999 a month range, depending on the level of services and requirements. We've got a really tight package and the maintenance is done by outsourced developers using our standard framework.

We target local markets by first establishing a regional hub website portal that acts as the traffic aggregator. Advertising on this portal becomes part of the value-add deal.

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ploked 15 years ago

do you sell the site based on its "rankings"? or the fact the site is set up and ready to go? if based on rankings, what happens should your page one rankings drop? do the clients complain?
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Blase

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

This has been my business model for many years GoGetta. I serve the SMB market and have price ranges in the $99 a month to $999 a month range, depending on the level of services and requirements. We've got a really tight package and the maintenance is done by outsourced developers using our standard framework.

We target local markets by first establishing a regional hub website portal that acts as the traffic aggregator. Advertising on this portal becomes part of the value-add deal.

Michael,

If you have been doing it for many years you should put
a step by step "how to do" and "what to do" together and
sell it as a WSO.

Just a thought.

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Jon Alexander

15 years ago

nice idea. I guess that you could effectively 'sell' the same site again and again and again! A bit like the 'leasehold' property system in the United kingdom...

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jon Alexander

nice idea. I guess that you could effectively 'sell' the same site again and again and again! A bit like the 'leasehold' property system in the United kingdom...

You could certainly do this!

GoGetta

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Ed - This does make the sale relatively easy as they can see the working site!

Michael - Awesome, I knew other guys would be doing this and profiting. It really is simple!

Ploked - You can do either but Rankings are the selling point I find. A business owner can have a ready made optimized top page solution! I never guarantee the site will stay on the top page and work hard to keep it up there. At the moment I have no contracts so if the business owner isn't happy they give a months notice and move on!

I have yet to lose a customer though and all are extremely happy, I am also yet to lose rankings. But nothing is guaranteed!

GoGetta

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1 reply

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ploked

15 years ago

Originally Posted by GoGetta

Ploked - You can do either but Rankings are the selling point I find. A business owner can have a ready made optimized top page solution! I never guarantee the site will stay on the top page and work hard to keep it up there. At the moment I have no contracts so if the business owner isn't happy they give a months notice and move on!

I have yet to lose a customer though and all are extremely happy, I am also yet to lose rankings. But nothing is guaranteed!

GoGetta

ok cool. that makes sense...thanks for the clarification

Thanks

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MichaelHiles

15 years ago

It opens up a lot more accessibility to small businesses who can't fork $2K - $3K upfront. "Renting" the site to them keeps the actual asset under your control, which is important if they stop paying you. You can shut off the service under a rental agreement - but if they are buying it on terms, they have a legal claim to the property. This means that in most US states, even if they stop paying you for the site on terms, you cannot arbitrarily seize the asset, and could even be held criminally liable if you do so. Yes, you have a financial interest in the securitized asset, which is used as collateral, but UCC laws are very specific.

So renting is a better route. No pay, no play. Too bad you've printed your website and email address on 10,000 business cards. Not my problem.

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

It opens up a lot more accessibility to small businesses who can't fork $2K - $3K upfront. "Renting" the site to them keeps the actual asset under your control, which is important if they stop paying you. You can shut off the service under a rental agreement - but if they are buying it on terms, they have a legal claim to the property. This means that in most US states, even if they stop paying you for the site on terms, you cannot arbitrarily seize the asset, and could even be held criminally liable if you do so. Yes, you have a financial interest in the securitized asset, which is used as collateral, but UCC laws are very specific.

So renting is a better route. No pay, no play. Too bad you've printed your website and email address on 10,000 business cards. Not my problem.

Precisely, Michael you hit the nail on the head as they say!

GoGetta

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Vince Runza Online

15 years ago

This is very sharp, Jamie! Depending upon the niche, you could be getting much more per month, if the competition is strong -- and you outrank them.

BTW, do you guarantee search engine placement? How about offering backlinks as an upsell?

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Vince Runza Online

This is very sharp, Jamie! Depending upon the niche, you could be getting much more per month, if the competition is strong -- and you outrank them.

BTW, do you guarantee search engine placement? How about offering backlinks as an upsell?

Hi Vince,

I don't gurantee search engine placement as I can't and I haven't tried the upsell yet! This is a new model I have tried and tested, its now time to scale it up some! ; )

GoGetta

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iw433

15 years ago

Yep that is one of the ways to do the off line thing, but it does not have to be the only thing in your arsenal. I have a site like that for "Medical malpractice lawyers" getting ready to market it. It is on the first page of Google in the local market for a few good keywords.

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Frank Bruno

15 years ago

Gogetta I just started doing this and have 2 clients on a 30 day free trial ($197 month after) with my leased "lead capture system" as the service. The SEO is the "bonus".

If they don't want the site after 30 days I tell them I will give it to their competitors. (Kinda makes them want to keep the site)

I've been focused on the lead capture system But this gives me food for thought to get them in the loop quicker with a site already setup like you suggest.

When I saw how fast the 2 sites I put up hit upper to middle first page Google my idea was to create several of these sites in various niches and lease them out.

I agree this is freakin too easy...lol

Frank Bruno

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Robert Matthew

15 years ago

Great One GoGetta!

Been doing this for several years...mostly targeting legal professionals and cosmetic surgeons. If you go after larger markets such as Houston, NYC or Chicago you can command much higher monthly fees. Well this also depends on the type of business as well.

In Houston for example, a personal injury attorney doesn't even blink at $7K per month.

This is a great strategy and the sky is truly the limit with this one!

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Frank Bruno

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Robert Matthew

In Houston for example, a personal injury attorney doesn't even blink at $7K per month.

This is a great strategy and the sky is truly the limit with this one!

Is this based on your experience? I think targeting those that can afford to pay big dollars for leads this could be very doable.

Frank Bruno

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Robert Matthew 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Bruno

Is this based on your experience? I think targeting those that can afford to pay big dollars for leads this could be very doable.
Frank Bruno

Hey Frank,

Yes...currently have 3 rentals rolling right now...sorry but I'm not up for passing out URLs...too many smart marketers around.

But, Yes...I originally was doing this in smaller areas but the value wasn't there. Then I took a referral from an attorney in Seattle, for a guy in Houston (Malpractice) and I ran with it from there.

Really, even charging $7K per month, you can still get somewhat hosed. I mean, a malpractice attorney could potentially land a suit that is worth 6 to 7 figures...with that in mind, my fees are a drop in the bucket.

I find attorneys to be fantastic for this model. It's hands off for them, they see results quickly...and they tend to stick with you for quite awhile, due to the fact that if they decide drop the rental it could end up in their competitors hands. Really this model is fantastic.

Starting to open up the scale now on the rentals and go for basically a targeted in house network. Then see, check out the traffic and price it accordingly.

Try it out Frank! Good Luck to you.

P.S. Stay out of Houston LOL
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zanbrok

15 years ago

Hi Frank, how fast did these 2 sites get ranked from the moment you got the site indexed and registered domain?

Originally Posted by Frank Bruno

Gogetta I just started doing this and have 2 clients on a 30 day free trial ($197 month after) with my leased "lead capture system" as the service. The SEO is the "bonus".

If they don't want the site after 30 days I tell them I will give it to their competitors. (Kinda makes them want to keep the site)

I've been focused on the lead capture system But this gives me food for thought to get them in the loop quicker with a site already setup like you suggest.

When I saw how fast the 2 sites I put up hit upper to middle first page Google my idea was to create several of these sites in various niches and lease them out.

I agree this is freakin too easy...lol

Frank Bruno

Thanks

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Chris Lagarde

15 years ago

<generic keyword rich content>

Jamie - are you using PLR, or do you have some original articles written, or a combination of the two?

Thanks

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Bill - I agree, the more avenues to market the better and this is only one system I have been running and testing recently!

Chris - I don't use PLR, I write original content for each site I set up. By "Generic" I meant that I would type out the usual to get the top page positions.

This is certainly a model anyone can do and it is an easier sale once you got a site there!

HTH

GoGetta

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gg282

15 years ago

I like this idea alot! Now I'm even more confused than I was 2 weeks ago. There are so many ways to make money in the offline niche. The weird thing is I always had a thought in the back of my mind that just renting websites would probably be a good way to get started in this business. Now that I see people actually using this "renting" model, I must really consider it. Seems like it would be an easier sell too.

The fact that I will always retain ownership of the website really appeals to me as well. Trying to figure out what to charge and how to write up a rental agreement is something I'll have to research.

I have about 7 local niche websites active right now, a few of them are producing leads already, and I feel bad for these people who submitted their info and nobody is calling them! I have not sold or rented those websites yet. Ive really go to consider renting them out asap.

Thanks GoGetta for starting this thread.

I really like the idea of selling websites and online marketing services to small businesses, but I really love residual income opportunities and this may be it.

Thanks

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xlfutur1

15 years ago

This is a very interesting thread.

Couple questions...do you show them traffic stats or guarantee any kind of traffic or leads to the site for their monthly fee?

I have a site that I resurrected recently (Top Chicago Attorneys | Top Chicago Lawyers) with the idea of selling or renting it once it got ranked. Its been on the first page of Google now for awhile for the term: chicago attorneys, or: best chicago attorneys

Right now I am basically giving the leads away to any attorney listed on the "profiles" page who answer questions at the site. But even these guys are lax and don't answer all the questions that come in. Almost everyone who asks a question checks the box saying "yes" that they want an attorney to contact them. Are they just stupid?

My other question is: would this site be rentable if I can't even get the attorneys that are involved with the site now to participate? I designed the site as a two step process to get people to ask a question, then have an attorney follow up with them. But amazingly enough, the attorneys on the site don't seem to want these leads.

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RenaissanceMan

15 years ago

Great idea

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Rob Whisonant

15 years ago

I wonder if this would work with a silo approach?

I have several sites like citynamedirectory.com citynameportal.com etc.

I wonder if business owners would rent sites like the following once ranked well in the search engines?

florists.citynamedirectory.com
bestusedcardealers.citynameportal.com
etc...

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Rob Whisonant

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MichaelHiles

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant

I wonder if this would work with a silo approach?

I have several sites like citynamedirectory.com citynameportal.com etc.

I wonder if business owners would rent sites like the following once ranked well in the search engines?

florists.citynamedirectory.com
bestusedcardealers.citynameportal.com
etc...

Re's
Rob Whisonant

Ding. Winner.

We do www.citynameportal.com/businessowner for seo purposes

In many instances, they may already have a website, so this becomes a doorway site...

We have the root portal as the city area. Then we create either a child portal, which is the www.citynameportal.com/businessname or a parent portal, which is actually their domain URL. The parent portal is still driven by a single codebase (the same ASPX .net pages), it simply uses the host header as the key index to load all the unique data, skin, etc... from the database for whatever portal you're trying to run. So we have one set of code that runs literally unlimited websites.

For instance, I have a single code base running a 1400 small business websites in a single IP in a single host account. The main portal is a local discussion forum that covers whatever the membership wants to discuss... politics, etc... There's a banner ad management engine that not only manages ads on the host portal, but distributes ads throughout all the subscriber business websites. If you go to a site that has a direct, unique URL www.businessname.com aside from the required banner ad being served from the central portal, there will literally be no indication that it's running on the same code that runs all the other websites or the central portal.

There's simply some things that PHP cannot, and will not do running in an Apache/xNIX environment.

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NPmaster

Banned 15 years ago

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JohnMcCabe

15 years ago

Originally Posted by xlfutur1

Right now I am basically giving the leads away to any attorney listed on the "profiles" page who answer questions at the site. But even these guys are lax and don't answer all the questions that come in. Almost everyone who asks a question checks the box saying "yes" that they want an attorney to contact them. Are they just stupid?

Not answering all the questions may be a function of time or a function of questions outside their specialty. If I'm a busy malpractice lawyer, I'm probably not going to invest a lot of time trying to answer questions about writing a will, for example. It doesn't help build my "brand".

Are they stupid? I doubt it. Probably more like "selective." I'm guessing that some of the questions would indicate that the asker doesn't have the means to hire the attorney. And some of them are for unwinnable or otherwise undesirable cases.

Since the attorneys on your roster really have no skin in the game, they can cherry-pick for questions that show them in the best light and contact the people who promise to be the most profitable; they can safely ignore the rest, since it costs them nothing.

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GoGetta

15 years ago

As far as showing traffic, I have never needed to do this at all! All I do is show them the keywords that I have top page for and the amount of searches these keywords recieve via Googles Keyword Tool!

This is always enough!

GoGetta

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zoro

15 years ago

GoGetta, Thanks for sharing. Residule income is always a great way to build a permanent business with permanent income.

John

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GoGetta

15 years ago

No Problem Zoro,

GoGetta

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Chris Lagarde

15 years ago

Robert - every state has different rules about attorney referrals. Have you confirmed your websites are in compliance with these laws? Maybe what we're talking about here is not the legal definition of a referral but rather a lead. Are there any legal opinions that someone can post a link to? I just tried Googling "attorney referral" advertising and didn't have any luck.

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dbarnum 15 years ago

Neat idea! Just added it to my To Do list

Gracias, dude
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Robert Matthew

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Lagarde

Robert - every state has different rules about attorney referrals. Have you confirmed your websites are in compliance with these laws? Maybe what we're talking about here is not the legal definition of a referral but rather a lead. Are there any legal opinions that someone can post a link to? I just tried Googling "attorney referral" advertising and didn't have any luck.

Hey Chris,
Yes...I am compliant. The referral I received initially was, hey I have a friend whose an attorney in Houston, he may be interested in the service, etc. etc.

And then as far as the rental of the site...I'm really not selling leads, as their information is the only info on the site...everything goes directly to them. So I'm really just like the maintenance man at this point. I update the site, grow the content and rankings. That's about it.

As far a lead gen for attorneys, meaning capturing the lead yourself and then passing it on to the attorney, that is a bit different and does require some compliance issues per state.

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Chris Lagarde

15 years ago

And then as far as the rental of the site...I'm really not selling leads, as their information is the only info on the site...everything goes directly to them. So I'm really just like the maintenance man at this point. I update the site, grow the content and rankings. That's about it.

Ahh...I thought that's what you were doing but I wasn't sure. You know a great area of legal expertise to target right now...bankruptcy attorneys.

Thanks

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Chris your right! But I prefer targeting businesses where it is easy to get hold of the owner and no gatekeepers. Every niche has money in it! Just look at the YP, there are big adverts in every category!

GoGetta

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Chris Lagarde

15 years ago

Originally Posted by GoGetta

Chris your right! But I prefer targeting businesses where it is easy to get hold of the owner and no gatekeepers. Every niche has money in it! Just look at the YP, there are big adverts in every category!

GoGetta

You are correct GoGetta. With your encouragement, via your phone guide (it's free folks), I've been contacting Offline businesses who have been advertising in the local greensheet, the daily paper, and Valpak. I've got an appt today w/ a local furniture company and one tomorrow with my auto mechanic. Selling them a "lead capture system" also known as an autoresponder.

Still having challenges with the gatekeeper (when there is one). I do really like the rent-a-site model you've presented.

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Rob Whisonant

15 years ago

Anyone want to share what types of businesses seem best to market these sites to?

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Rob Whisonant

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Vince Runza Online 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant

Anyone want to share what types of businesses seem best to market these sites to?

Businesses that have high lifetime value clients or customers.
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billionareHuman

15 years ago

I would love all of your thoughts on this.

I have a cell phone site that can be rented out immediately, currently I get about $250 a month from affiliate sales from 5000 unique visitors (cell phones don't convert well), I have top 1-3 rankings for some very generic terms which I will show as proof. I have targeted the offline cell phones businesses that this traffic can help.

So I have a rent price in mind based on the fact that i make can make $250 from commissions, I miss out on sales done over the phone to the merchant, the affiliate network gets a cut too, the merchant gets more exposure and can do repeat sales to all vistors sent through so surely that is worth something too.

My question is should I mention the fact that I am currently getting $250 from affiliate commissions and put thoughts in the offline Marketers head about setting up an affiliate program? Or should I just say that some store is currently paying me $250 but how is that price justified?

Another option is to take the affiliate ads off and let them know that other merchants are interested and I will take the highest bidder. What would 5000 uniques be worth to them? But what if they ask my price expectations, how can I justify it to them without explaining the affiliate stuff. Or am I thinking to much?

Would love some feedback. I once a decision is made I will try it out and let everyone know of my results,

thanks all!

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Chris_L 15 years ago

Hey GoGetta,

Great Idea! Thanks for sharing.

What are your plans for maintaining high ranking on Google with your keywords? This has always been a problem for me -- maintaining high ranking continually.

Thanks.

Chris
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coreytucker

15 years ago

so im just curious, if you can rent these sites for perhaps $200 a month you could sale some for say $1,000 or more right? Create a 10 page information site and target some good keywords that are easy to rank for and email the businesses in the area right?

Sounds good in theory but how easy is this to really pull off. Im having troubles with domain flipping so maybe I should give this a try also.

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spriyada

15 years ago

Hey thanks for sharing this. I have a quick question. Where do you get the site template? Do you make a unique one or just get a free one from online. Also, I know that you rent the site but say if you want to sell it, you can't really say that the site is unique right? Cause you got a free template... anyway thanks in advance for answering my question. And again great post, thanks for that

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Dexx

15 years ago

Great thread guys,

Question on the naming of niche folders / pages...

If I create a site:

www.cityfitness.com/information.com

Let's say I could get #1 Google rankings for "City Personal Fitness Trainer" and "City Fitness Trainer"

Would it make sense to create:
www.cityfitness.com/citypersonalfitnesstrainer
www.cityfitness.com/cityfitnesstrainer

and rent out both pages separately?

Or would that make a person a business discouraged to be promoted in one part of the city, and not in the other?

or perhaps I could expand my promotion to offer a discount on multiple listings/ranking?

Thoughts?

Same would go for something like /cityusedcarsales and /citybestusedcars

etc.

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Dexx

15 years ago

**JUST HAD AN INTERESTING EXPANSION IDEA***

Now what do you guys think of this...

Create the niche site: www.cityrestaurantreviews.com/[local company name]

and then get #1 search engine ranking FOR THAT COMPANY'S NAME!
(assuming they aren't very well SEO'd)

Would it then be legal to approach that company and say "Hey...I have the #1 ranking for your name if you'd like to rent it from me...if not I'll offer it to your competition"

Would that be legal? Or would that border on extortion / trademark infringement?

If they said no, could I then sell the page to their competition and title the page:

"I Didn't Have a Good Experience with [Local Company Name]...Here's Why"

and then go on to state that I found the "competitor" company to offer better service, prices, etc. and that's why I'm recommending my friends go to them?

Could I be sued for my own personal thoughts on a business? (assuming it's not outright defamation / slander to their business) such as saying "I didnt enjoy their business" while also selling off the promotional space?

I'd be curious to know if anyone has done something similar

Thanks
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KenSilver 15 years ago

Great concept GoGetta!

My question: What about content changes? If you get a number of sites up - say 100 or so which is a good starting income - you are going to be spending a heap of time making changes.

I've made a simple 5-page site for my son-in-law, and every week he has another request for several hour's work.

I realize this time can be outsourced and charged for in the commercial model, but it seems people want a custom site with ongoing input. That quickly gets expensive and time consuming on a large scale.

Has that happened to you yet?
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thriftgirl62 15 years ago

I did made a website for the plumber coming to fix the washer and when I showed it to him he didn't believe he was really on the internet. It was funny but I did it for the fun of it by using their public local listing information.

I don't know if trademarks can be used the way you've described. You sound mean when you lay out the whole plan of attack --- somebody is GOING TO BUY IT and you WILL make sure of that!! Just be careful and be nice!! Don't forget to SMILE when you break it down. (: <<----smile big!! YOu win...
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I retired in 2005 at 43 and now I give away websites like these for FREE [hosting excluded]
www.jahda.com and www.cez1.net and www.productioncarcare.com
When you make at least $100+ per month, we split the profit 80/20 and YOU get the 80% Until then, you keep 100% and I'll help you drive traffic, get backlinks and put the domain in your name too!
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- thriftgirl62 15 years ago
  
  DEXX
  
  I did made a website for the plumber coming to fix the washer and when I showed it to him he didn't believe he was really on the internet. It was funny but I did it for the fun of it by using their public local listing information.
  
  I don't know if trademarks can be used the way you've described. You sound mean when you lay out the whole plan of attack --- somebody is GOING TO BUY IT and you WILL make sure of that!! Just be careful and be nice!! Don't forget to SMILE when you break it down. (: <<----smile big!! YOu win...
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  I retired in 2005 at 43 and now I give away websites like these for FREE [hosting excluded]
  www.jahda.com and www.cez1.net and www.productioncarcare.com
  When you make at least $100+ per month, we split the profit 80/20 and YOU get the 80% Until then, you keep 100% and I'll help you drive traffic, get backlinks and put the domain in your name too!
  
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korakmitra

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Dexx

**JUST HAD AN INTERESTING EXPANSION IDEA***

Now what do you guys think of this...

Create the niche site: cityrestaurantreviews/[local company name]

and then get #1 search engine ranking FOR THAT COMPANY'S NAME!
(assuming they aren't very well SEO'd)

Would it then be legal to approach that company and say "Hey...I have the #1 ranking for your name if you'd like to rent it from me...if not I'll offer it to your competition"

Would that be legal? Or would that border on extortion / trademark infringement?

If they said no, could I then sell the page to their competition and title the page:

"I Didn't Have a Good Experience with [Local Company Name]...Here's Why"

and then go on to state that I found the "competitor" company to offer better service, prices, etc. and that's why I'm recommending my friends go to them?

Could I be sued for my own personal thoughts on a business? (assuming it's not outright defamation / slander to their business) such as saying "I didnt enjoy their business" while also selling off the promotional space?

I'd be curious to know if anyone has done something similar

I was in the online yellow pages business for a while but have not implemented this myself.

I would think you are free to optimize for any keyword phrase in a review site. What you should probably not do is to try to sell based on - "Pay me or I will put in a bad review." Instead, set the page with a set of user reviews (honest ones, no slanting, ask readers for comments/reviews). Below the reviews you can have a site recommendation for other restaurants in the same food category. Above the reviews, reserve space for a the restaurant's own listing/menu/graphics. This is optional, and getting this spot is what the restaurant pays for. The restaurant also pays for a first come first serve spot on the site recommendation list. Basically, this is what Yelp or CitySearch do.

My 2 cents.

Thanks

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Micheal Perkins

15 years ago

Great thread!

Reading this made me think of the "apartments myarea" listings. That term is searched according to Google an average of 8,000 times a month (84K people in this city). So I thought about another possible way to use this.

Instead of renting it to just 1, unless they want to pay several thousand for exclusive use, I could rent spots on my site for a few hundred for each apartment complex wanting a spot. Now instead of maybe $250 for 1 listing, I could get $2,500 for 10. I could tell anyone interested in being exclusive they would have to invest at least $3,000 a month to keep their listing.

The numbers are just examples, I know I could get more. There is a free throw away that runs $500/month minimum here for these companies to run a listing in.

I checked for the domain name www.apartmentsinlocalarea.com and it's available. I'm going to grab it an start working on this.

Here is another idea I thought of.

All the businesses that run ads promoting their discounts. www.discountslocalarea.com is available for me. I'm going to grab that one also. Charge local merchants a fee to place their discount ads on my website. The visitors can come to the site and print off the coupon for the discounts. The local throw away charges a minimum of $25 for a listing on theirs.

Now throw in email marketing to this. Get customers to pay a small fee to sign up for an autoresponder to receive "special" discounts only available to "VIP" members. Segment the list into groups of interest, restaraunt discounts, clothing discounts, automotive service discounts, etc.

The business owners can submit a request to send a special to that list, and pay extra for it.

Just some ideas I've had from reading this thread.

It's late here so I'm off the bed now. But tomorrow I'll be registering at least the 2 domains I listed above, if not more, to build site's around these ideas.

Thanks for the idea GoGetta.

[ 2 ] Thanks

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Dexx

15 years ago

How can you determine how much the ad space would be worth to a business?

For instance the #1 ranking for "plastic surgeon [city]" is probably worth more to the business than ranking #1 for "pizza delivery [city]" (or maybe it isn't heh)

Is it better to just have two flat fees and let the business decide if it's worth it to them to pay more, or is it better to do it on a "quote" basis where businesses get quoted on the rental amount?

I'm thinking to myself that the flat fee is better as there is less research and complaining to deal with over businesses being mad they have to pay more than say their buddy who paid less...

Thoughts?

Thanks
1 reply

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madison_avenue

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Dexx

How can you determine how much the ad space would be worth to a business?

For instance the #1 ranking for "plastic surgeon [city]" is probably worth more to the business than ranking #1 for "pizza delivery [city]" (or maybe it isn't heh)

Is it better to just have two flat fees and let the business decide if it's worth it to them to pay more, or is it better to do it on a "quote" basis where businesses get quoted on the rental amount?

I'm thinking to myself that the flat fee is better as there is less research and complaining to deal with over businesses being mad they have to pay more than say their buddy who paid less...

Thoughts?

I think you could charge higher prices for certain industries. It may be harder to rank for attorneys than for Pizza's( I'm guessing) so there is more work involved. Also it will be harder to create good content for attorneys than for Pizza'a. I think your service is going to be individual for each business so you will need to have different prices because the amount of analysis and work involved is going to be vary for each business.

Thanks

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elirainc

Banned 15 years ago

do you get site seekers easily ? its a long process contacting them and persuading them to rent your site.
how many have you rented like this so far ?

Thanks

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Stray201

15 years ago

Interesting model. Definitely would work better in some niches than others, though. You've got me interested, thanks!

Thanks
1 reply

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thriftgirl62 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Stray201

Interesting model. Definitely would work better in some niches than others, though. You've got me interested, thanks!

Send some teenagers out to upscale business centers or industrial offices and have them take a quick survey and get their business card, brochure and email address. Calling on the phone rarely works and forget about getting an email address over the phone...people think you might do something to their computer that way!!

They can take that survey in person or the kids can show them how to log in and take a quick survey online. Have something free to leave with each even if it's only a balloon -- leave something to remember you by. Blinky lights work the best. People love those!! They run about $1-$1.50 each.

Now you know who's interested in what, what their budget is, etc.. so you can target offers that interest each one instead of wasting time. You can't SELL to them, they have to BUY what they WANT from you

Your follow up email should educate them so they WANT what you have to offer and then they will buy it. Always explain WHY, what's the reason behind your offer? If they don't know WHY, they won't buy. Explain the reason why and you'll have buyers every day of the week and twice on Sundays!

Companies that already have websites -- try not to insult them when you see what their "website" looks like. Some will swear the local yellow page listing is theirs and it comes up on "the" first page all the time!! ----Repeat, educate with reasons why!! (LOL) and have fun!! Kids need work too.
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Jon Alexander

15 years ago

Dexx, I think you'd be on VERY dangerous ground. Unless you could show you had a legit reason for using their name in that way.

Thanks
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Ryce

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jon Alexander

Dexx, I think you'd be on VERY dangerous ground. Unless you could show you had a legit reason for using their name in that way.

agreed. Me, as the biz owner would get kinda pissed ...

Thanks
1 reply

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Dexx

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ryce

agreed. Me, as the biz owner would get kinda pissed ...

How is that any different than say getting a #1 ranking for a ClickBank product using a review site, and in that review site promoting a competitor's product?

Or all the Adwords campaigns that say "SUCH AND SUCH IS A SCAM!!!! Click Here for a Product that Works!" etc.

If I got a #1 ranking for McDonalds Los Angeles, and then stated the reasons I dont like McDs on the site and sent visitors to a landing page for a Burger King coupon...that would be in my right legally to do so...

Now if McDs wanted to pay me to not send visitors to their competition...that would also be legal

Thanks
2 replies

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Ryce

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Dexx

How is that any different than say getting a #1 ranking for a ClickBank product using a review site, and in that review site promoting a competitor's product?

Or all the Adwords campaigns that say "SUCH AND SUCH IS A SCAM!!!! Click Here for a Product that Works!" etc.

If I got a #1 ranking for McDonalds Los Angeles, and then stated the reasons I dont like McDs on the site and sent visitors to a landing page for a Burger King coupon...that would be in my right legally to do so...

Now if McDs wanted to pay me to not send visitors to their competition...that would also be legal

Forgive me if I am wrong Dexx but it sounds like blackmailing....

Blackmail means specifically obtaining something of value under the threat to disclose something shameful or disreputable about a person. This can be true even if it would not have been illegal to simply make the reputation-damaging information public.

Thanks

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JohnMcCabe

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Dexx

How is that any different than say getting a #1 ranking for a ClickBank product using a review site, and in that review site promoting a competitor's product?

Or all the Adwords campaigns that say "SUCH AND SUCH IS A SCAM!!!! Click Here for a Product that Works!" etc.

If I got a #1 ranking for McDonalds Los Angeles, and then stated the reasons I dont like McDs on the site and sent visitors to a landing page for a Burger King coupon...that would be in my right legally to do so...

Now if McDs wanted to pay me to not send visitors to their competition...that would also be legal

It would also be legal for them to sic one of their kazillion staff lawyers on you for misappropriating their trademark for your own purposes. It may or may not be a specious case. Doesn't matter. Unless you are willing to outspend them on legal fees, you'll back down...

Large corporations often seem more willing to make an example of a smaller business, rather than spending a bunch of money cutting deals with little guys and then monitoring them.

Ask anybody who has ever tried to use Disney's trademarks to sell something not approved by Disney.

Thanks
1 reply

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stayfocused

15 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

It would also be legal for them to sic one of their kazillion staff lawyers on you for misappropriating their trademark for your own purposes. It may or may not be a specious case. Doesn't matter. Unless you are willing to outspend them on legal fees, you'll back down...

Large corporations often seem more willing to make an example of a smaller business, rather than spending a bunch of money cutting deals with little guys and then monitoring them.

Ask anybody who has ever tried to use Disney's trademarks to sell something not approved by Disney.

That is the beautiful thing about the internet. If you don't use the term McDonalds in the domain name anywhere then you should be fine. They don't own the rights to be ranked for " McDonalds Los Angeles".

You would be giving a review on a product (Mcdonalds in LA) and you where ranked for that keyword. They would have no legal ground to go after you.

Now that doesn't mean that they can't make your life a living hell because like you say, they have lawyers on retainer who are making money without doing any work.

But don't confuse being ranked for keywords that are trademarked and using trademarked keywords in your domain.

2 totally different ballgames in my opinion. And just for the record, that is JUST MY OPINION. And unless someone tapped me to fill the Supreme Court Seat coming up then it will stay JUST my opinion.

Thanks
1 reply

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JohnMcCabe

15 years ago

Originally Posted by stayfocused

That is the beautiful thing about the internet. If you don't use the term McDonalds in the domain name anywhere then you should be fine. They don't own the rights to be ranked for " McDonalds Los Angeles".

You would be giving a review on a product (Mcdonalds in LA) and you where ranked for that keyword. They would have no legal ground to go after you.

Now that doesn't mean that they can't make your life a living hell because like you say, they have lawyers on retainer who are making money without doing any work.

But don't confuse being ranked for keywords that are trademarked and using trademarked keywords in your domain.

2 totally different ballgames in my opinion. And just for the record, that is JUST MY OPINION. And unless someone tapped me to fill the Supreme Court Seat coming up then it will stay JUST my opinion.

I'm not confusing anything. We're saying pretty much the same thing.

Dexx's comment was to contact McDonalds and offer to rent them the site with the bad review so they could change it.

My observation was that large corporations, presented with such an offer, would tend to be more likely to take the bully's route and use their resources to combat what they perceive as extortion.

Since the review is promoting a competitor for money, they could simply challenge the reviewer to substantiate their claims and sue for false advertising or slander when that evidence is lacking.

Once that "pay me and I'll remove the bad review" offer is made, one could easily make the case that the review was posted for the sole purpose of extorting money from the company reviewed. Whether that case is winnable is a whole different discussion. One best left to actual lawyers.

Thanks

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Tramp_Art 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Jon Alexander

Dexx, I think you'd be on VERY dangerous ground. Unless you could show you had a legit reason for using their name in that way.

Jon is absolutely correct. Not only would you be on VERY dangerous ground, you would be in violation of the Cyber Squatting law.
- Thanks
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GoGetta

15 years ago

This system and model works with all niches. The thing many overlook is that if you open your YP and look at every category, you will see big ads! Companies paying big money in every category.

You don't need to target lawyers or realtors solely because they deal with big numbers. Every niche can be targeted. I have sold to many different types of businesses and all spend!

Its all down to how you sell your service and how much value you can build up!

In most cases the businesses that deal with smaller amounts of money, are more receptive and interested in more advertising routes! And it is much easier to get a hold of the owner of a plumbing firm than trying to nail down a busy lawyer!

You hit gatekeeper after gatekeeper so my advice would be to hit different types of businesses. This model works in all!!!

Its awesome to see many already doing this, it is quite an obvious model as internet marketers we can do with ease! Take action people and just see what happens! ; )

GoGetta

Thanks

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stayfocused

15 years ago

Once you have the site up and running and ranking for your keywords then it is time to sell it.

Looking through the PPC ads is a great way to get started.

What I have had more success with is heading on over to Craigslist and looking for companies advertising in that section.

If you are targeting malpractice attorneys in Denver, go to the denver section of CL and click on the legal services. Find a company that is advertising there and shoot them an email.

CL is a great place to find potential clients for your sites.

Thanks

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haohaowan2

15 years ago

i am also curious how many you have rented so far as well, and the success

Thanks

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BODH

15 years ago

Great idea.a simple example to make money offline with online resources

Thanks for sharing

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Stayfocused - You are right on with CL! This is a method I use to rent some sites off. I also post in the section. For example if I was targeting plumbers in london, I would visit classified sites serving London Plumbers and post an ad in the plumbing section showing the site and the benefits! You can almost guarantee that plumbers posting ads will check out the rival ads first and BANG - Your There!

This almost always gets bites and sells sites! That combined with emailing plumbers and also calling them up gets sites selling quicktime.

Another thing as well is that most plumbers advertising on CL and other classified sites don't even have a website. This is a prime target and they almost always leave there email address!

GoGetta

Thanks
1 reply

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Susan Hope

15 years ago

Originally Posted by GoGetta

Stayfocused - You are right on with CL! This is a method I use to rent some sites off. I also post in the section. For example if I was targeting plumbers in london, I would visit classified sites serving London Plumbers and post an ad in the plumbing section showing the site and the benefits! You can almost guarantee that plumbers posting ads will check out the rival ads first and BANG - Your There!

This almost always gets bites and sells sites! That combined with emailing plumbers and also calling them up gets sites selling quicktime.

Another thing as well is that most plumbers advertising on CL and other classified sites don't even have a website. This is a prime target and they almost always leave there email address!

GoGetta

Sorry is this is a dumb question GoGetta but what do you put in the CL ad - do you just say something along the lines of "Plumbing Website for Rent" and then display the website and explain its benefits?

Thanks for further clarification on this point.

Sue

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Hi Sue,

As far as the ad, I wouldn't put the fact I am renting a site in the title, I usually put something like:

In need of a website for your business?

Or

Struggling with the internet and generating new business from it?

And then I would simply explain what it is about and how much it costs making sure I put all details of rankings down etc.!

HTH

GoGetta

Thanks
1 reply

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Susan Hope

15 years ago

Originally Posted by GoGetta

Hi Sue,

As far as the ad, I wouldn't put the fact I am renting a site in the title, I usually put something like:

In need of a website for your business?

Or

Struggling with the internet and generating new business from it?

And then I would simply explain what it is about and how much it costs making sure I put all details of rankings down etc.!

HTH

GoGetta

Ah so the fact that they will be renting a site from you CAN go in the description? sorry if I read that wrong, not eaten today, probably reading all kinds of things wrong lol, off to get food.. thanks for answering.

Sue

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GoGetta 15 years ago

Hehe, no problem!

GoGetta
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amotivatedmom

15 years ago

GoGetta

Where would you find the templates that you would use to build these sites and are they very simple in nature or would outsourcing the building of the sites be better.

Could you build a well targeted site using WP?

Really awesome idea, I am seriously going to do some research in my area tomorrow to see what keywords are available and grab some domains and go...

Thanks for the information about CL as well.

Brittain Joy

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Dexx

15 years ago

I use wordpress for my portal and its starting to look amazing!

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amotivatedmom

15 years ago

I plan on targeting creative arts venues with the same type idea. I am curious as to whether mailing them, or calling them is better. I also have seen some of these businesses have email addresses but no websites. Perhaps emailing them the link to the site mock up will really spur their interest.

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dndoseller

15 years ago

After I read this post I did this in the past four days:

1. Bought CityStateProfession.com (eg RidgewoodNJTherapist.com)
2. Installed wordpress, free theme, wikipedia content, 5 sample pages, really nice original logo - the site looks really nice compared to many others for the same area/profession.
3. Blogged about the site from 5 of my junk blogs - got it indexed in Google
4. Found 20 professionals in the town listed in the yellow pages WITHOUT a website.
5. Sent them a letter (today) telling them about the site, whats great about the domain name, and that they can rent it for $137 mo or buy for $957.

Now I will wait and see what happens. If I get a customer I will do this over and over forever LOL.

Its 4/22, check with me on PM after 5/6 to see what happens. I am not going to do anything else with this except wait and see for two weeks.

Update 5/19: I used the online yellow pages for my letters - a mistake - 1/2 got sent back because the addresses were out of date. I need to redo this with the real latest phone book yellow pages. No inquiries otherwise. btw the way the site is here (and for sale - lol)

Dan

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Dexx

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dndoseller

Now I will wait and see what happens. If I get a customer I will do this over and over forever LOL.

Its 4/22, check with me on PM 5/6 to see what happens. I am not going to do anything else with this except wait and see.

Keep us posted!

Thanks

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Susan Hope

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dndoseller

After I read this post I did this in the past four days:

1. Bought CityStateProfession.com (eg RidgewoodNJTherapist.com)
2. Installed wordpress, free theme, wikipedia content, 5 sample pages, really nice original logo - the site looks really nice compared to many others for the same area/profession.
3. Blogged about the site from 5 of my junk blogs - got it indexed in Google
4. Found 20 professionals in the town listed in the yellow pages WITHOUT a website.
5. Sent them a letter (today) telling them about the site, whats great about the domain name, and that they can rent it for $137 mo or buy for $957.

Now I will wait and see what happens. If I get a customer I will do this over and over forever LOL.

Its 4/22, check with me on PM after 5/6 to see what happens. I am not going to do anything else with this except wait and see for two weeks.

Wondering how this all went for you dndoseller?

Cheers
Sue

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Wade Watson

15 years ago

It's interesting to watch your experiment, dndoseller. This may seem odd to say, but maybe your problem is you're not pricing it high enough. If Robert can get $7K/mo. out of Houston attorneys, you should be able to do better than $137 in White Plains. People used to paying for high-priced services often associate low price with low quality. I would always adjust pricing according to the site's potential value in the particular market. The mailed letter is a good idea, but I think you should try and follow up with a phone call. Getting through screeners is tricky, but it can be done. You might consider outsourcing phone sales. I've known guys who could get through the Pentagon if they put their mind to it.

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JohnMcCabe

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Wade Watson

... People used to paying for high-priced services often associate low price with low quality. I would always adjust pricing according to the site's potential value in the particular market...

Often, it's not even the perception of quality. Many times, it goes back to the image the buyer has of himself. They just don't see themselves as people who use low-priced services.

In another thread, I made an analogy to serving steaks at a barbecue. If you want to serve up filet mignon, you could get the meat at Wal-Mart for about $12/lb, Omaha Steaks for around $20/lb or Dean & DeLuca for $60/lb.

As the grandson of a master chef, you'll have a tough time convincing me that the Dean & DeLuca steak tastes five times better than the Wal-Mart steak. So there must be another factor...

The truth is, Wal-Mart, Omaha Steaks and Dean & DeLuca occupy different niches within the "meat" market, and buyers buy from one or the other because of the image they hold of themselves or the image they want to project.

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Cinneide

15 years ago

Any update Dan?

Originally Posted by dndoseller

After I read this post I did this in the past four days:

1. Bought CityStateProfession.com (eg RidgewoodNJTherapist.com)
2. Installed wordpress, free theme, wikipedia content, 5 sample pages, really nice original logo - the site looks really nice compared to many others for the same area/profession.
3. Blogged about the site from 5 of my junk blogs - got it indexed in Google
4. Found 20 professionals in the town listed in the yellow pages WITHOUT a website.
5. Sent them a letter (today) telling them about the site, whats great about the domain name, and that they can rent it for $137 mo or buy for $957.

Now I will wait and see what happens. If I get a customer I will do this over and over forever LOL.

Its 4/22, check with me on PM after 5/6 to see what happens. I am not going to do anything else with this except wait and see for two weeks.

Update 5/19: I used the online yellow pages for my letters - a mistake - 1/2 got sent back because the addresses were out of date. I need to redo this with the real latest phone book yellow pages. No inquiries otherwise.

Dan

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Webthings

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dndoseller

After I read this post I did this in the past four days:

1. Bought CityStateProfession.com (eg RidgewoodNJTherapist.com)
2. Installed wordpress, free theme, wikipedia content, 5 sample pages, really nice original logo - the site looks really nice compared to many others for the same area/profession.
3. Blogged about the site from 5 of my junk blogs - got it indexed in Google
4. Found 20 professionals in the town listed in the yellow pages WITHOUT a website.
5. Sent them a letter (today) telling them about the site, whats great about the domain name, and that they can rent it for $137 mo or buy for $957.

Now I will wait and see what happens. If I get a customer I will do this over and over forever LOL.

Its 4/22, check with me on PM after 5/6 to see what happens. I am not going to do anything else with this except wait and see for two weeks.

Update 5/19: I used the online yellow pages for my letters - a mistake - 1/2 got sent back because the addresses were out of date. I need to redo this with the real latest phone book yellow pages. No inquiries otherwise. btw the way the site is here (and for sale - lol)

Dan

Hi Dan,

I like the site, it looks good but I have two questions, both about the Wikipedia content:

1) If using Wikipedia content, aren't you supposed to give them credit for it?

2) Doesn't using generic content (I searched on a sentence from your homepage, delimited by double-quotes, and got 316 hits) negatively affect your SERPS?

Sorry to see it's not rented out yet BTW...

Andrew

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kosmo101

15 years ago

thats a great plan DNDOSELLER!

I already have a divorce lawyer site in my area that ranks many times top 10 for multiple keywords. I even put in the header advertise here.. but cannot seem to get any bites on attorneys. I mean you cant spam them. i suck at cold calling. I even tried to pass a couple of leads free of charge to them..no upsell..no contingency..just hey here they are. Most websites are in shambles...and never a response.

Anyone have a clue how i can get someone to advertise/rent a site that has awesome rankings to an attorney? I will try CL. Maybe I will run a press release.

Kos

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Awesome DND,

You may consider advertising it on CL as well! You are likely to get enquiries. Dont post in the web design section, post in the therapist section! ; )

GoGetta

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Vikuna2009+

15 years ago

dndoseller, could you please explain what a "junk blog" is and how to use it? I'm kind of new to this

! Congrats for taking action, good work.

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TimothyW

15 years ago

I haven't read the whole thread, so maybe this was already covered...

re: I printed up 10,000 business cards with my (your!) domain name, etc. -- problem...

If you want to let that trip them up eventually, then say nothing. But if you want to disclose that possible future problem at the start, just tell them to keep their CURRENT (regular) url on their cards, and redirect the name to your new site.

That way they 'control' the people THEY get via handing out their cards, etc., and you 'control' the people who find them via searching the web (via your seo'd domain name).

make sense?

-- TW

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tonybhachu

15 years ago

Hi GoGetta,

This is a very interesting model that you've suggested here. I was just thinking of ways someone could get one of these sites up and running today right now and came up with ...

PPC marketing...

Get a <localarea><profession>.com domain name as suggested and set up a simple homepage with some original content at the bottom of which you have an opt-in form to collect leads. Quickly fill out the rest of the site with 5 pages of content from Ezine Articles or other similar sites. Add a privacy page and a contact page.

On the homepage advertise the fact that you have advertising space available, and limit that to one company - though it may be wise to add additional slots in competitive markets.

Now run a PPC campaign and drive traffic to the site until you sell your advertising slot(s). Meanwhile, any leads collected can be sold to any of the businesses already running ppc campaigns for the same set of keywords.

Let me know what you think.
Tony

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GoGetta

15 years ago

A definate follow up is recommended. I always follow up on everything, emails, phone calls etc. I follow up until I am told NO! As business owners are busy and they get prospected to a lot, following up allows you to build rapport over time and also using the phone or walking in face to face means they will have to listen.

An email can be discarded, as long as you are polite and pleasant, your voice cant! (From Experience!) In reality your actually selling TRUST!

GoGetta

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Great Analogy and Advice John! So Right!

I believe that all business owners will spend big if they believe and trust in the value in what you are offering!

GoGetta

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momwow

15 years ago

Just discovered this thread - just can't figure out what you're putting on these sample sites. Won't they require a LOT of customization/redoing things when you find someone to rent it???

But you ARE pricing that customization work accordingly, I guess?

And on these sites that are showing up for targeted search terms, you ARE saying that it's for rent somewhere?

Was just thinking too - there are probably certain industries that are a bit more "generic" than others - in other words, services offered don't vary a great deal. Might be better to target those - say, hair salons. Or handyman services. Plumbing. Lawn care. Carpet cleaning.

Notice in Google Maps that quite a few listings in some of those categories aren't developed sites, either.

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Susan Hope

15 years ago

Originally Posted by momwow

Just discovered this thread - just can't figure out what you're putting on these sample sites. Won't they require a LOT of customization/redoing things when you find someone to rent it???

You kind of answered this with your last paragraph (for me anyway) I am doing sites to begin with which are more generic, as you say, like hair salons. And for me again, how much work is involved will be determined by which rental package they pick

But you ARE pricing that customization work accordingly, I guess?

yup, trying to, I have to test that though.

And on these sites that are showing up for targeted search terms, you ARE saying that it's for rent somewhere?

On my sites I am yes, can't answer for the others, I think GoGetta uses the phone to ring potential clients once he has the site set up - once I am more organized I will probably go face to face to begin with AND have a little box on the website saying it is avilable for rent should someone come by it. Once a site is rented then that box will be taken down off the site.

Sue

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momwow

15 years ago

Is this a topic that is discussed more fully in that Special Forces section???

Would actually see some examples - some evidence that this works, and how!

Thank you -

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momwow

15 years ago

Y'know - you could tweak this idea and use it for ANYBODY you meet who doesn't have a site yet and says they can't afford one.

Tell 'em you'll build a site that they can rent. Maybe $200 upfront - but YOU OWN IT.

You might not want to make that offer to people in odd niches - but could work, otherwise.

That way too you take SEO and rankings out of the equation altogether.

Could even be sort of a "rent to own" deal if you want - they own it after their payments have reached "X" amount.

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Yudha Andika

15 years ago

Briliant idea !!! I like your mindsite...creative people

I think this bussiness model will popular at the next period....

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skyward 15 years ago

This has been a very informative and helpful thread. Thanks.

To get the most for a site, has anyone thought about offering it to the highest bidder somehow?

Also, the site will need to be optimized on a regular basis, including backlinks, to stay at a high rank on Google, I imagine. Especially down the road, when local search intensifies.

How is this cost deferred to the customer?
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seye

15 years ago

how do you ensure that you site is not stolen from you , please are effective is this in generating cash on a long term basis

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Skyward - I have been costing in 2 ways, setup fee to make changes to content or/and design, this cost is dependent on what needs changing. Then a monthly fee to keep it maintained (Building Links)

Seye - Yes this is great for long term business. You can build up an army of rental sites quickly and if your renting them all out, you will be making some nice money. Its uncapped, the morre you do the more you earn. What's more you can always choose to impose contracts. 12 months etc. This way your sites have a guaranteed 12 month income.

If they are in the right niche and optimzed for the right keywords though, what business owner out there wouldn't want to keep this forever. Further down the line you can offer to sell the site to them for good for huge $$$$$$$!

GoGetta

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skyward 15 years ago

Thanks GoGetta.
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Dexx

15 years ago

Fair enough, I think it all boils down to how I would approach them...

If I create the site and simply let them know I have the #1 spot and that its for sale, then whatever happens next is up to them.

I wont say "pay me or else I'll ruin you" but simply saying that I will offer my website to their competition is fair

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kentaiwan98

15 years ago

I wouldn't even suggest that you are willing to offer the website to a competitor. Regardless of the law, you would be seen as someone NOT worthy of doing business with: why because all business relationships depend on trust.

You want the business owner to see you as worthy of his or her trust. Stabbing them in the back like this would only make it harder to sell any other product to them in the future. Be careful: Say instead. I'm sorry I couldn't interest you in my product or site... and either What could I change to make the site interesting to you? or Would it be okay if I kept you on my contacts list in case another offer came up in future?...

Saying you will offer a site to a competitor is burning bridges... and it's not necessary to do this. You will not be able to restore a damaged reputation easily.

And I know: I'm in business.

If someone approached me with that line of reasoning, I'd be quite likely to say 'fine... sell the site to my competitor'... or 'Take a hike'. It won't wash.

Kenneth

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Dexx

15 years ago

Hrmmm good point on the trust POV

okay you win! =]

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MichaelHiles

15 years ago

Simply ask someone who turns you down for several references to someone else in their business that might be interested in your deal.

"Speak softly and carry a big stick." - Theodore Roosevelt

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Ryce

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

Simply ask someone who turns you down for several references to someone else in their business that might be interested in your deal.

"Speak softly and carry a big stick." - Theodore Roosevelt

or ask for constructive critcism...

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Liz Micik

15 years ago

I like Michael's answer to the immediate dilemma Dexx, but there is a another problem you will soon encounter with that sort of a sales approach. Turnover. Just as you want,no NEED, to maintain continuity from ad to landing page, you want to do the same with your domain name, SEO, and site pages.

If you approach Joe the Plumber and offer him a website optimized for Paul the Plumber and tell him to put that slanderous "I had a bad experience with..." headline on it, you'll get a fair amount of drive by traffic. That sort of headline will draw in traffic. BUT...

It will be traffic that bounces right back out when they see what they will consider "bait and switch," or worse..."if I can't trust Paul the Plumber, why should I trust Joe?"

Then, in three months when Joe comes to you and says "I've gotten no results and I'm going to tell everyone in town what a scam you're running," you've just shot your own business in the foot.

So I would err even further on the side of speaking softly and not even use the word "rent." I would simply provide them a site, domain and hosting for a full year at a cost that breaks down to XYZ per month ... and the right to renew of course.

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MrYossu

15 years ago

Originally Posted by elizam

So I would err even further on the side of speaking softly and not even use the word "rent." I would simply provide them a site, domain and hosting for a full year at a cost that breaks down to XYZ per month ... and the right to renew of course.

The only problem with this is that if you don't make it clear that you are renting the site, they will likely assume that you have created a site for them, and/or are selling the sit to them.

At the end of the first term of hosting, they are quite likely to ask for their site, so they can host it with someone cheaper. If you haven't made it clear you are only renting them the site, they could get awkward about it.

Without any stated intention, it could come down to whatever is assumed to be norm, which in the case of web design is probably (caveat, I'm no lawyer) that it's their site that you are hosting for them.

IMO it's far better to be upfront and explain that you are renting the site out. If you sell the benefits well enough, plus emphasise the low risk involved, they are quite likely to be happy with that.

HTH

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Liz Micik 15 years ago

MrYossu -- Doh. You're absolutely right. I'm going to blame this one on a brain freeze. Thanks.
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GoGetta

15 years ago

A little off subjet but here's one way I have for:

Getting round the gatekeeper,

Pick a niche get the site up and type up a short PDF detailing the benefits of your offering, no prices, no BS, just the benefits and put at the end that you will be calling back to run through it in more detail. I am talking 2 pages at most! You don't want to give too much aaway and you don't want to bore anyone.

Next up get a list of businesses and call them. Ask to speak with the owner or the person who deals with the company promotion. You will most likely get a "Sorry they are busy!" etc.

Then just ask for the name of who you intend to speak to and say you want to send them something so can you have there business or personal email. You will 9 out of 10 times get this.

Then in the subject, type in F.A.O (There Name)

Within the email explained you called earlier and as they were busy you attached a copy of a report they will be interested in taking a look at if they are interested in generating more leads from the internet. Give a little spiel about yourself and make sure you keep this mighty personal, so you don't come across like an agent in the email, you come across like a fellow biz owner.

Then at the end explain you intend to call back but if they run through it sooner, they should call you on xxx-xxx-xxx.

Then all you do iss call back 2-3 days later and ask to speak to the "Name" you got. If they ask who it is, just say its "Your Name" and you sent an email a few days ago and they will know who you are.

This way the gatekeeper will ask her boss if they can put you through, 9 out of 10 times you will get through and have the opportunity to pitch your offering. You see, gatekeepers are paid to keepm you out and even if there boss is in and not busy they will say he or she is, so this technique will actually get them to at least ask! Some will tell you they aint interested as expected but you will find the interested ones and you have a footing to open the call.

Hi Mr business owner, did you recieve my email?

Bam you are now talking with the biz owner!

The good thing about this is that the majority won't have even looked at the email and will then be thinking, S*** I should of looked at that, you can then arrange to send it again etc. This way over time and over a few calls you build rapport and trust to close the sale!

There are benefits to bosses guarded by gatekeepers! They dont get pitched on internet and advertising as much as bosses that answer the phone! ; )

Voila!

Now Go Get Em!

GoGetta

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GoGetta

15 years ago

You could even use the word "Lease" or alternatively tell them the structure of the site is yours and they rent the content!

GoGetta

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sharpee

15 years ago

Great thread that has helped me decide where to focus. One of the biggest problems with supplying websites to local businesses seems to be the 'yes we are interested and we will get back to you when we are ready to proceed and have got our content prepared'. I currently have about 4 clients that say they want a website from me but are not progressing yet!

This method puts you in control of time-scales! 'Here is a well ranked website available for you to rent' - They just have to say yes or no. I like the 30 days free trial option.

Regarding updating their content - Why not just make the site from Wordpress and give the Renter, the 'Administrator, Editor, or Author' roles, while you remain as Blog Owner/Administrator? Removes all that hassle factor for you & empowers them. You can even charge for training them.

Keep the ideas coming & take action!

Thanks

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Hi Sharpee,

Yes you touch on a great point and a further benefit of the rent a site model, give them content control of there site! The beauty is, once the client has control of a site he is renting, you can bet your bottom dollar they will never ever give it up! ; ) Money month after month after month!

GoGetta

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Best Affiliate

15 years ago

Originally Posted by GoGetta

Hi Sharpee,

Yes you touch on a great point and a further benefit of the rent a site model, give them content control of there site! The beauty is, once the client has control of a site he is renting, you can bet your bottom dollar they will never ever give it up! ; ) Money month after month after month!

GoGetta

I think this would be fine but keep in mind when you give them control of the content and they start messing with it its going to mess up rankings. SEO companies never give their clients control to change their content for this reason. But I must say this is probably the most interesting thread Ive read since being a member here. Great ideas. Im going to do my own research tomorrow.

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Spark

15 years ago

guys,

love this reading! i love the method of renting to clients that the sites we create are already having traffic (which in this case does have higher values in terms of trust / website) plus with abit of sales [Perhaps mention them that you have already send out the invitation to 100 of the same niche business and only 1 will be selected]

However i am curious, let's say you send to them and there's like 10 person interested and during the 1st meeting. they agree with your price. what abt the next 9 clients? do you just mention the deal has already finish? is there any better suggestion on this? since all of us wont waste those opportunity on these clients. right?

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sharpee

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Spark

guys,

love this reading! i love the method of renting to clients that the sites we create are already having traffic (which in this case does have higher values in terms of trust / website) plus with abit of sales [Perhaps mention them that you have already send out the invitation to 100 of the same niche business and only 1 will be selected]

However i am curious, let's say you send to them and there's like 10 person interested and during the 1st meeting. they agree with your price. what abt the next 9 clients? do you just mention the deal has already finish? is there any better suggestion on this? since all of us wont waste those opportunity on these clients. right?

I plan to get a few websites ready in different niches and then just contact 2 or 3 companies each day, in each niche. I will also state in the approach email/ letter/ cold call that I am doing this, so there is gentle pressure. You snooze, you loose!
I wouldn't be contacting large numbers at once. Wish you well.

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Ryce

15 years ago

Guys, this should be a sticky thread.

IMHO the Rental Economy is on the verge of exploding for so many niches. People want to have more experiences and less overhead, less commitment. So many choices and things change so quickly that our potential customers usually have paralysis by so many choices

The rental economy , as described in trendwatching Transumer briefing, caters to consumers more interested in experiences than ownership.Also TRYVERTISING, which is all about consumers becoming familiar with new products by actually trying them out solves part of those customer acquisition hurdles

"Think of TRYVERTISING as a new breed of product placement* in the real world, integrating your goods and services into daily life in a relevant way, so that consumers can make up their minds based on their experience, not your messages

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Spark

15 years ago

Cool,

thanks for your idea on this.

i am curious on this, how much does these whole thing cost to client??
Do you sign any agreement or any paper work need to do before doing these stuffs?

I mean these are businessman after all..i don't really believe they will be happy to just give you a cheque and wait for the result. There's some sort of paper works for all your clients right?

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sharpee

15 years ago

Thinking more about what 'Spark' said above.

It may be tempting to offer a 2nd or 3rd website in the same locality and same nice but you can demand a higher price by using rarity factor. Only doing one website in this area in this niche. If you were to offer more, then you make it harder for yourself to rate well on Google as you are having to get 2 or 3 website all competing for high rankings. I think there is also an ethical issue of working with 2 or 3 competitors in the same locality.

One other slight twist to the idea is to offer the opportunity to several competitors to be featured on the website and then display the adverts using a rotating banner/ alternate page system. Could include a Google Adwords campaign to increase traffic. Might be a way to get a higher rent from the website.

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Having only one site helps to add urgency to the sale! If a business owner is interested, the fact he may lose it to a competitor is enough to push the same through. Also, the fact you can then add extra benefits such as exclusivity etc. always help!

GoGetta

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Ryce

15 years ago

Originally Posted by GoGetta

Having only one site helps to add urgency to the sale! If a business owner is interested, the fact he may lose it to a competitor is enough to push the same through. Also, the fact you can then add extra benefits such as exclusivity etc. always help!

GoGetta

Hi Getta,

How do you estimate ROI to justify the client's expenses ?

What kind of metrics you use to sell yourself and what kind of metrics you use during the lease period?

In the monthly fee are included dashboard like reports?

thanks in advance

Thanks

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Tom Brite

15 years ago

Ive just developed a new idea/plan and made a thread about it but thinking about it i should have just asked it here instead.

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing-discussion-forum/88284-rent-site-similar-business-model-full-idea-plan-you-opinion.html

Thanks in advance
Tom Brite

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ayolov

15 years ago

This is a keen model, I believe that with some polishing it could be a real winner!

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Ryce

15 years ago

GoGuetta has a product where probably the concept is detailed

No affiliation here Phone Obliteration

Anyone tried?

Guetta has been so helpful here that I think its probably worth a test

A great weekend to all!!!

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garycashin

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ryce

GoGuetta has a product where probably the concept is detailed

No affiliation here Phone Obliteration

Anyone tried?

Guetta has been so helpful here that I think its probably worth a test

A great weekend to all!!!

Ryce Phone Obliteration is fantastic I would reccomend all of gogettas stuff is great

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InternetMarketingIQ

15 years ago

I see no reason why it couldn't work as long as there is a pool of available clients, the cost fits the model for the client, and you are able to maintain your ranking and deliver results.

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SMS 15 years ago

A dandy variation of this technique is to build a niche portal & then rent out pages on the portal.

For instance you could have BestSurgeons.com and then have BestSurgeons.com/surgeon-in-new-york.html, BestSurgeons.com/dallas-surgeon.html etc. These pages would then be rented out to one client per location.

This takes a lot more work obviously, but scales very very well and has a number of benefits...

You actually end up with an authority site because you'll have loads of pages, with each one ranking very high.

New pages get indexed very quickly without the need for bookmarking.

You create a valuable brand that you can sell on later.

If the brand becomes established, people will bypass google & go straight to your portal to look for a surgeon in their area.

Anyway guys... just thought I'll throw that into the mix
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MisterMunch

15 years ago

How can you go for the parts of the city or places around the city where not to many live, but still get some searches.

I am not from the states, so it is hard to come up with examples, but say you where targeting new york, you might want to rank for places like manhattan, bronx, broklyn etc also.

I know each of those parts of new york are all very competitive, but I am thinking in terms of places outside of a small town where there might only live 5000 people. To cover the whole area.

Maybe ask the customer once the contract is signed, and they have tested it for a month if they want you to target other keywords as well. Charge extra for that service?

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Eric Stanley

15 years ago

Is there a lease/rent legal agreement for virtual property (for this model -- concerning domain ownership) floating around somewhere out there?

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Liz Micik 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Eric Stanley

Is there a lease/rent legal agreement for virtual property (for this model -- concerning domain ownership) floating around somewhere out there?

That's an excellent question. Have you found one yet, or does anyone have one to share?
Thanks in advance if you do...
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ildarius

15 years ago

Gogetta

Great advice, my head is spinning with ideas now!

Like some mentioned here, some keywords are trickier than others, for example it's hard to rank for "montreal renovation" for example, but that's a very tought market where local PPC bids start at 1$ a click!

One question:

Do you talk about projected R.O.I? Tell them about the amount of searches and potential conversion rates? Do you think they would still keep the service around if it
was not bringing in money?

BTW for my friend's local business I run ppc ads elita-construction.com and he is EXTREMELY happy with the outcome, 5% of visitors leave their contact details (conversion rate was 0% when I used the classic IM One-long-Sales-Page Design, so some people prefer flashy pages (literally in this case)

)

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Originally Posted by garycashin

Ryce Phone Obliteration is fantastic I would reccomend all of gogettas stuff is great

Thanks Gary, thats awesome, I am glad you have found my products helpful!

Originally Posted by Ryce

GoGuetta has a product where probably the concept is detailed

No affiliation here Phone Obliteration

Anyone tried?

Guetta has been so helpful here that I think its probably worth a test

A great weekend to all!!!

Hi Ryce,

Thanks for that, Phone Obliteration is focused on the contacting business owners over the phone pitching our online marketing services. Although not linked to the rent a site model at all it would help with contacting biz owners over the phone if thats an area you need help in!

Originally Posted by ildarius

Gogetta

Great advice, my head is spinning with ideas now!

Like some mentioned here, some keywords are trickier than others, for example it's hard to rank for "montreal renovation" for example, but that's a very tought market where local PPC bids start at 1$ a click!

One question:

Do you talk about projected R.O.I? Tell them about the amount of searches and potential conversion rates? Do you think they would still keep the service around if it
was not bringing in money?

BTW for my friend's local business I run ppc ads elita-construction.com and he is EXTREMELY happy with the outcome, 5% of visitors leave their contact details (conversion rate was 0% when I used the classic IM One-long-Sales-Page Design, so some people prefer flashy pages (literally in this case)

)

ildarius,

Good question,

As far as ROI, you can't really guarantee a conversion as such as it is something in essence we cannot control and if you do guarantee it, the second the biz owner doesn't get it, they will be on the phone asking why?

Obviosuly searches change and in essence the whole search engine market changees all the time so you cannot really guarantee anything.

Although, if you have a visible site and you show the biz owner this and you also have proof of searches then it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what might happen if his/her biz details are there. I just point that out clearly and the site, positioning and demand sells it self!

HTH

GoGetta

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Webthings

15 years ago

Originally Posted by GoGetta

As far as ROI, you can't really guarantee a conversion as such as it is something in essence we cannot control and if you do guarantee it, the second the biz owner doesn't get it, they will be on the phone asking why?

Obviosuly searches change and in essence the whole search engine market changees all the time so you cannot really guarantee anything.

GoGetta

Jamie,

Is it not also fair to say that the SERPS ranking will be influenced by the website content, and therefore when the 'tenant' changes the content to suit themselves the ranking will inevitably change too (hence the possibility of a SEO upsell)?

Andrew

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Webthings

15 years ago

I was just thinking about the domain names and noticed that most, if not all, of the examples are of the format LocationNiche.com (e.g. DallasBuilder.com) rather than the other way round as NicheLocation.com (e.g. BuilderDallas.com).

Given that when searching I generally type what I am looking for, followed by where it is (so the opposite way round from the domain names I have seen - e.g. "builder in dallas" or similar) ...is there a particular reason for the Location+Niche order that most people seem to be using that relates to SEO, and that I'm missing?

Andrew

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Eric Stanley

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Webthings

I was just thinking about the domain names and noticed that most, if not all, of the examples are of the format LocationNiche.com (e.g. DallasBuilder.com) rather than the other way round as NicheLocation.com (e.g. BuilderDallas.com).

Given that when searching I generally type what I am looking for, followed by where it is (so the opposite way round from the domain names I have seen - e.g. "builder in dallas" or similar) ...is there a particular reason for the Location+Niche order that most people seem to be using that relates to SEO, and that I'm missing?

Andrew

This is because most people believe that google ranks in terms of LSI, where semantics are crucial. But this has proved to be false in the serps.

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Susan Hope

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Webthings

Jamie,

Is it not also fair to say that the SERPS ranking will be influenced by the website content, and therefore when the 'tenant' changes the content to suit themselves the ranking will inevitably change too (hence the possibility of a SEO upsell)?

Andrew

Hi Andrew, (nice to talk to you over here as well as LBB

)

For my own model I am choosing to keep control of that element BUT I did not want to fall into the trap of having too much work and not enough time nor pay.

So I opted for two rental site packages (like Jamie suggested) BUT ALSO added to my model that they can also pick from any "Add-on" services, either straight away or at any time in the future, so basically, if they want new things put in (video, more images, content, etc etc) they pay for those things, one at a time and then I do it for them. This keeps control for me (so they don't mess up SEO) and it breaks the pricing down for them into easily managable slices, of course they can pick everything all at once if they choose too

Sue

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sharpee

15 years ago

Previous posts have talked about telling potential clients about the search volume for specific keyword phrases but for many 'niche local keywords' there is not enough volume to see how many searches. Any tips or free alternatives to the Google Adwords Keyword Tool, to help with doing the research?

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Sharpee,

I don't have any other alternatives as such, but I have ranked sites for keywords that showed no searches but in turn generated enquiries and traffic for those terms. So I also think in the customers shoes.

What would someone likely type in if they needed a ......... in ................ Common sense will uncover some gems that show no searches in GoogleKeywordTool. I don't think the GKT is accurate at all but when there are searches there it does add to the sales process when speaking to a potential client for sure so I use it when I can.

You can also search for certain keywords and if there are PPC ads in volume, you can pretty much say that keyword is worth ranking for!

Doesn't answer your initial question as such but gives you a few ideas I hope!

GoGetta

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sharpee

15 years ago

Originally Posted by GoGetta

Sharpee,

I don't have any other alternatives as such, but I have ranked sites for keywords that showed no searches but in turn generated enquiries and traffic for those terms. So I also think in the customers shoes.

What would someone likely type in if they needed a ......... in ................ Common sense will uncover some gems that show no searches in GoogleKeywordTool. I don't think the GKT is accurate at all but when there are searches there it does add to the sales process when speaking to a potential client for sure so I use it when I can.

You can also search for certain keywords and if there are PPC ads in volume, you can pretty much say that keyword is worth ranking for!

Doesn't answer your initial question as such but gives you a few ideas I hope!

GoGetta

Thanks for that common sense advice GoGetta! Really appreciate all your great posts here on this topic. I'm always worried that I'm missing out on some tool that provides even deeper & better keyword results!

Just registering my first couple of domain names for this 'Rent A Site' strategy, so should have them indexed by Google later in the week.

Thanks

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Good Stuff! Take action and reap the rewards!

Ever since I started my offline biz I have used common sense with a lot of clients when it comes to searches and it has proved great on every occasion!

GoGetta

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CikedMarketing 15 years ago

in reference to offering the site to a handful of competing businesses...i thought i saw somewhere on the forum a draft salesletter to use if you choose to email/snail mail potential clients to rent the site and it mentioned that the same letter was being distributed to other businesses in order to drive action to commit to the renting of the site....anyone know where i can find this? thanks
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jr1228

15 years ago

What about email addresses? Do you rent an associated email address out as well?

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sharpee 15 years ago

Originally Posted by jr1228

What about email addresses? Do you rent an associated email address out as well?

I think I'm going to keep it simple and just include a forwarding facility so they can use a decent email address like builderbob at MyTownBuilders.com but not offer POP3 full email hosting. Giving them a professional email address also helps to 'tie' them to using your services long term.
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Eric Stanley

15 years ago

My two 'beta' sites are ranked #1 for both keywords. Just have to lease them now!

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Voasi

15 years ago

My two 'beta' sites are ranked #1 for both keywords. Just have to lease them now!

Keep us posted on how it goes on gaining clients with this model. I'm very interested to see how it works for you. I've got one site I'm giving this a go with as a "proof of concept" and if it goes well, then I'll scale.

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Best Affiliate

15 years ago

Would you guys be willing to give me some advice on how to make these sites that you're producing? Wordpress? Im not good at the whole process ive only used free tools that require zero skills etc. Anyone suggest any tutorials for me to look at? I have a good knowledge of SEO (enough to be able to optimize local business sites) and theres a ton of business here. Thanks

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Susan Hope

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Best Affiliate

Would you guys be willing to give me some advice on how to make these sites that you're producing? Wordpress? Im not good at the whole process ive only used free tools that require zero skills etc. Anyone suggest any tutorials for me to look at? I have a good knowledge of SEO (enough to be able to optimize local business sites) and theres a ton of business here. Thanks

I'm using Wordpress for my sites and I build my own theme for each one, so that they are hopefully unique.

I can probably help you in learning how to use Wordpres ('probably' as in, finding some time for you, not anything else), so pm me if you want to discuss it further.

Good luck
Sue

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Andrew,

In answer to your questions.

Firstly, yes content is important. What I do is alter the content around my client while incorporating keyword rich content. It is easy enough and for the majority of niches, won't really affect rankings. I always explain how SEO works to my clients first.

As far as the domain name builderdallas or dallasbuilder, they are both powerful and you will find it ranks similar which ever way it is typed in regardless of the one you own!

Hope that answers your questions!

GoGetta

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virtuallywork

15 years ago

That is a great deal of information.

Copying competitor is what it boils down to ?

Are there any consequences--legally?

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Susan Hope

15 years ago

Originally Posted by virtuallywork

That is a great deal of information.

Copying competitor is what it boils down to ?

Are there any consequences--legally?

Not too sure what you are referring to here? Who is copying what competitor? Perhaps you could clarify your post as I think I have it all wrong LOL

Sue

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Paul Davidson

15 years ago

Hi Guys,

I have been following this thread lately as i had decided to put some of my new limited SEO skills to some use for local companies. (i will be retaining the domain and renting out an optimised site, in fact i may even build 2 or 3 for the best keywords and try to rent them all 3!)

I was wondering if you guys could offer some advise with the local business google maps section that is at the top of google page for most local searches.

I was given an important tip which may help a few of you guys....I was advised that local links helps the position of these which is very important as only the top 10 are shown on the front page.

But now and again there are a few individual websites above the google business maps results!

Any general advise on local SEO techniques would be very much appreciated also any tips on how to improve the local business google maps results would be great plus..................how did a few individual websites place above the local google maps results??

Great Thread, Great tips and advise!

many thanks

Paul

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sharpee

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Davidson

Hi Guys,

I have been following this thread lately as i had decided to put some of my new limited SEO skills to some use for local companies. (i will be retaining the domain and renting out an optimised site, in fact i may even build 2 or 3 for the best keywords and try to rent them all 3!)

I was wondering if you guys could offer some advise with the local business google maps section that is at the top of google page for most local searches.

I was given an important tip which may help a few of you guys....I was advised that local links helps the position of these which is very important as only the top 10 are shown on the front page.

But now and again there are a few individual websites above the google business maps results!

Any general advise on local SEO techniques would be very much appreciated also any tips on how to improve the local business google maps results would be great plus..................how did a few individual websites place above the local google maps results??

Great Thread, Great tips and advise!

many thanks

Paul

Hi Paul

I have found this blog post below very useful but I can't post links yet, so just Google:
local search ranking factors
and the first result, davidmihm blog gives some great factors to consider when trying to rate well with Google Local.

Hope this helps

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Paul Davidson 15 years ago

Hey Sharpee,

You are the man!

This is an awesome find!

I have only just scratched the surface, but there is load of fantastic information from people who specialise in this stuff!!

Well done on finding this, and thank you so much for sharing.

Hopefully this will help fill the considerable gaps on my local SEO knowledge!

Paul
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Susan Hope

15 years ago

Originally Posted by sharpee

Hi Paul

I have found this blog post below very useful but I can't post links yet, so just Google:
local search ranking factors
and the first result, davidmihm blog gives some great factors to consider when trying to rate well with Google Local.

Hope this helps

Well I can..

Local Search Ranking Factors | Google & Yahoo Local SEO Best Practices

Thanks for letting us know about it Sharpee

Sue

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D Allen

Banned 15 years ago

[DELETED]

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Spark

15 years ago

Originally Posted by D Allen

Been following this thread.

Instead of using Jamie's Method (which is GREAT) of .....building a website with a Domain (DallasDentist.com)....then offering it to "10 Local Dentists" on a first-come, first-gets basis...for "X" rental....what I've done is....

1) Built a "Landing Page" for the TOP "Dentist" in Google in a certain area (Dallas)
2) Sent his office (after a Phone Call to Qualify) a Giant, 8.5 by 11 PostCard with a Picture of the Landing Page I created for him...explaining that....I will bring his office 10 NEW Patients a Month!...guaranteed!

My pricing is, "$790 a month".....first and last 2 months In Advance, PLUS $790 SetUp for a total of $3,160.

Thus....IF...after 3 months, I have NOT brought him 30 NEW Patients, I will continue the program until I do.

And....if, after the 1st 3 mos, he should decide to cancel (for ANY reason) I will STILL continue for 2 more mos (Which allows me to get a replacement) So...whenever he chooses to cancel...I will continue the program for an additional 2 mos....allowing me Time to get a replacement.

Ohhh....any NEW Patients after the 1st 10 per mo I charge $79 each.

The way I bring him a minimum of 10 NEW Patients a Month is to send Large (8.5 by 5.5) PostCards offering, "FREE TEETH WHITENING, a $600 Value"!....to a List of 100 to 200 "New Movers" each month.

Thus far, I've been able to get 26 Dentists, with no cancellations.

Again....these are dentists who ALREADY have websites. All I'm doing is "Making Their Sites MORE Productive" with my "Landing Page"...where I am sending the "New Movers" with my PostCard.

I am NOT selling anything...here. Just making a comment on "what" is possible and what I've done.

Dave Allen

Hi Dave,

From what you mention, it's like if there's no 30 customers within 3 months i will charge you free for the next month till we hit the 30 customers target? Actually i love the idea of if i don hit the target within a certain period, i will charge you free for a month so that they are willing to try the service you give.

Hey this include SEO for ranking top in google, email service which target customers. [increase in sales], etc.

Also what do you mean "new mover" those new customers? Also by doing this, you have already target a few keywords that already rank high in google?

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Eric Stanley

15 years ago

D Allen,

Excellent. Would you mind sharing the contents of your landing page? (either here for by PM). I have a similar system for real estate professionals sprinkled across the US, and would like some direction as to what you include on the landing pages, as ALL of them already have full websites. Also how are you getting access to the "new mover" materials and mailings? And a final question, are you registering the "top" dentists name in your domain, or is it still a generic, broad based keyword domain?

Anticipating your reply!

Eric

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FeelingFree 15 years ago

Very interesting D Allen.

Can you elaborate regarding the new customer incentive? Sounds like you assume going in that the dentist is going to agree to provide free teeth whitening valued at $600 for each new patient, in addition to the 2 month $3160 investment. Seems like there must be a bit more to that part of the story.

Thanks for adding to the stimulating approach.
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Dennis Murphy

15 years ago

Why is Don Alm posting under the name Dave Allen?

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Demond Jackson

15 years ago

Thanks for the wealth of wisdom and knowledge I have received. I first discovered this thread last night and just finished reading it through. What a great idea. It's basically a rental property for a company business. My questions would be:
1) how many of these sites do you guys run
2) how do you handle rapid growth
3) what aspects of the process is outsourced

I am taking action on this idea and I am entering into the website renting business.

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Susan Hope

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MassiveCash

Thanks for the wealth of wisdom and knowledge I have received. I first discovered this thread last night and just finished reading it through. What a great idea. It's basically a rental property for a company business. My questions would be:
1) how many of these sites do you guys run
2) how do you handle rapid growth
3) what aspects of the process is outsourced

I am taking action on this idea and I am entering into the website renting business.

1. Not many yet but only just started

2. When that happens (note the positivity LOL) I will employ others
3. At the moment, none of the process is outsourced. However, I am getting my daughter to pass out literature wherever she goes. When I get a little bigger with this, I will employ her part time (as she is a great sales woman, she is also a single unemployed Mum at the moment too).

I also provide add-0n services with my model (that idea stemmed from something Keith Broisvert does (LBB) and one of those is "Leaflet Design" however I am in no way set up to do a huge print run, so I am in the middle of contacting local printers to JV with them on that.

I also spoke to a Vinyl Sign Writer last night (does car decals, etc) with a view to getting one for my biz for my car but also to add that as a service that I can outsource to him which he is happy to do, well most of the time, he says he is run off his feet with too much work LOL

Sue

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clarke1000

15 years ago

Hi - I'm interested but do you have any "example rental sites?"

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smarterbuying

15 years ago

Great Idea!!! But Jon has a point.

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Lightlysalted

15 years ago

Intrestingly i think you are ahead of the market here an i believe that this willbe the future of mass popular websites for businesses. It is so costly to invest in a good website from scratch but what better way then to rent a site until you don't need it any longer. Also in the long term you can always sell the domain on.

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Webthings 15 years ago

Personally I'd be surprised at any business owner wanting solely a 'rented' domain, especially if on a (very) short lease, because it will be hard to work it into their branding and corporate ID if (unlike their 'own' website or physical premises) they're not sure that they'll still have it in 2 years time.

That 'problem' does of course open up 2 opportunities:

1) Draw up some legal documents so the business own can, if they wish, enjoy the same 'security of tenure' over their rented website as they do over their leased business premises (definitely a win/win because it would mean years of passive income);

2) Use the rented website as a low-cost door-opener to providing the business with their own website, that they can use as part of their 'corporate' branding should they wish.

Note that (1) doesn't have to be hugely complex, and in reality of course it's not a huge leap of imagination either because if you think about it none of us actually own our domain names.

Ultimately though what every business wants and needs is to make money. To do that they need customers. And customers come from leads. I have a number of sites at present that are very successful at generating leads in certain (UK-wide) niches, and for which I get paid a referral fee for every one that converts. In many respects I see this rent-a-site model as being similar to that, except of course that it's local traffic only and we'll get paid a flat monthly fee regardless of conversions.

Anyway, our first rental site is currently working its way up Google (now at the top of page 2 and still climbing on a local keyword that gets 750 searches/month), and when it reaches the top 3 places I'll start promoting it to local business owners. As an experiment, I've put lead capture on there too so I can attempt to hand it over with a ready-built database of local leads. Not sure how well that will work, but we'll see.
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GoGetta

15 years ago

Suzanne - Great point with the leaflets idea. To put a twist on that, this is all about Residuals. So once a biz owner is renting the site, you want to keep them there. Upselling leaflets and biz cards with the domain printed on them is a sure fire way to keep clients from ever wanting to leave your site! ; )

In some cases I have offered small print jobs free becasue of the longer term benefits! WIN WIN situation!

GoGetta

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Susan Hope

15 years ago

Originally Posted by GoGetta

Suzanne - Great point with the leaflets idea. To put a twist on that, this is all about Residuals. So once a biz owner is renting the site, you want to keep them there. Upselling leaflets and biz cards with the domain printed on them is a sure fire way to keep clients from ever wanting to leave your site! ; )

In some cases I have offered small print jobs free becasue of the longer term benefits! WIN WIN situation!

GoGetta

Yep great twist on that.. it was one of the reasons to do all the add-on services, to make it easier to keep them LOL - also it is a way to handle updating of these sites.

Nice idea on offering some of them for free here and there as well.

I just had a small success half an hour ago with a Hairdressers site that has been live now for about two to three weeks. Someone locally found it, sent in an enquiry on the contact form (which at the moment I have that set to come to me) so I contacted the salon, got the answer to the question, emailed prospective client back with the price and was able then to remind her to go back to the website and print out the 10% discount coupon for her appointment AND asked her to let her friends know about the website as that is the ONLY way to get the coupon.

For me that was wonderful just seeing that it works, I (hopefully) have got a new client for the hairdresser who is new in town and that she can see that websites work and why... totally chuffed LOL

Sue

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Webthings

15 years ago

Originally Posted by SusanneUK

I just had a small success half an hour ago with a Hairdressers site that has been live now for about two to three weeks. Someone locally found it, sent in an enquiry on the contact form (which at the moment I have that set to come to me) so I contacted the salon, got the answer to the question, emailed prospective client back with the price and was able then to remind her to go back to the website and print out the 10% discount coupon for her appointment AND asked her to let her friends know about the website as that is the ONLY way to get the coupon.

Way to go, Sue, well done!

Andrew

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Suzanne, Awesome news!

This is the kind of thing that shows what we know blows many out of the water. Here's, to your continued success!

Awesome!

GoGetta

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Micheal Perkins

15 years ago

Hi. I have completed a website for a market that I want to target, apartment rentals. I have the site complete, and it is on the first page of Google for one of the search terms I am targeting. It's the second most searched term for apartments in my city. I am still working on getting a first page listing for the most searched term, I'm currently on page 11.

Anyway, I am going to send a sales letter to at least 30 apartment managers in my area. I am no copywriter, but don't figure I need to be great to target a local company with this offer. I am putting my sales letter below.

I'd like to get critiques on it and see what you think. Anyone who likes it and wants to take it and change it around to suit them should feel free to do so.

Mike
************************************************** *********

What would 1 new rental contract each

month mean to your business profits?

What about 2 contracts, or even 5?

Hello, I know your time is valuable, so I'll get straight to the point.

My name is Micheal Perkins and I own a website (SiteName.com) that provides listings for apartments in CityName. My website is designed to attract people looking for apartments in CityName.

My website is on the first page of Google!

Since getting my website to the first page of Google, I am now accepting advertisers for the website.

Why advertise on my website?

People searching for apartments on the Internet are actively seeking information!
You get an immediate return on your investment! (No waiting months like with print advertising)
100% money-back Guarantee! Cancel anytime and get a refund of all unused fees.

Fast Action Discount!

For the first 10 apartment complexes to register an account, I am offering a 50% lifetime discount off the already low monthly price.

The normal price of $500 per month is already a great bargain. But for the first 10 accounts registered the price will only be $250 per month, for as long as you choose to keep your account.

This letter is being mailed to over 30 different apartment managers. So call today to get your discounted listing before they are all gone. This is one time offer and once all 10 spots are gone, this discount will not be offered again.

Call me now at (number), or send an email with your information to (email address).

Yours in business,
Micheal Perkins
Owner - SiteName.com

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Webthings

15 years ago

Hi Micheal,

A few small things:

Originally Posted by Micheal Perkins

You get an immediate return on your investment! (No waiting months like with print advertising)
100% money-back Guarantee! Cancel anytime and get a refund of all unused fees.

This is one time offer and once all 10 spots are gone, this discount will not be offered again.

Are you guaranteeing an immediate return on their investment? To me, as a landlord, the ROI is only realised when I put a tenant in place. Advertising, of any form, is merely an expense.

I don't have to wait months for print advertising. I can place a quarter page colour advert in a paper or magazine with a deadline of just two days before publication if they are desperate enough.

My idea of a 100% money-back guarantee involves just that - getting 100% of my money back, whether 'used' or otherwise! If your advertising appears disingenuous you risk alienating the prospect (you'd certainly lose me at this point).

You're missing the 'a' from "This is one time offer" which should read "This is a one time offer".

Where have you got your prices from incidentally? I know little or nothing about US property (real-estate) investment, but I'm pretty clued-up on it over here as both an investor and owner of multiple niche websites. As a landlord I know exactly how much the local lettings agents want to charge me for finding a tenant in a manner that is 100% hands-off for me and includes all referencing etc., I also know that I only pay that when the tenant actually moves in (so no tenant, no fee). As such, I'd be very sceptical of paying a fixed monthly fee for advertising, with no real way of calculating the ROI on it (see the very first point I made).

You may do better offering them the first month free to test the service, with the option to lock-in on the early-bird discount after that if they find it beneficial. That's a far better guarantee IMHO.

Your model also excludes small investors who own just one or two properties incidentally, and that may well be your intention and work well in US. In UK however it would be "an interesting decision" because if you understand the 'long tail' then (over here at least) you will appreciate that there is vastly more business to be found amongst the smaller investors than in all the big apartment blocks combined. That comment is UK-specific however, and may be completely untrue for the US.

Andrew

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JohnMcCabe

15 years ago

Mike, I'm putting my thoughts as comments within your letter...

They're meant to be from the point of view of a busy property manager...

Originally Posted by Micheal Perkins

I'd like to get critiques on it and see what you think. Anyone who likes it and wants to take it and change it around to suit them should feel free to do so.

Mike
************************************************** *********

What would 1 new rental contract each

month mean to your business profits?

What about 2 contracts, or even 5?

Hello, I know your time is valuable, so I'll get straight to the point.

My name is Micheal Perkins and I own a website (SiteName.com) that provides listings for apartments in CityName. My website is designed to attract people looking for apartments in CityName.

My website is on the first page of Google!

So what?

Since getting my website to the first page of Google, I am now accepting advertisers for the website.

Good for you. What's that got to do with me?

Why advertise on my website?

People searching for apartments on the Internet are actively seeking information! How many of them are looking at your site?
You get an immediate return on your investment! (No waiting months like with print advertising) Just how do you propose to do that?
100% money-back Guarantee! Cancel anytime and get a refund of all unused fees. That's not a 100% guarantee - that's a pro-rated guarantee. Big Deal...

Fast Action Discount!

For the first 10 apartment complexes to register an account, I am offering a 50% lifetime discount off the already low monthly price.

Low compared to what? You still haven't told what I'm getting besides an add on a site I've never heard of.

The normal price of $500 per month is already a great bargain. Again, compared to what? But for the first 10 accounts registered the price will only be $250 per month, for as long as you choose to keep your account.

This letter is being mailed to over 30 different apartment managers. Doesn't that just make me feel special... So call today to get your discounted listing before they are all gone. This is one time offer and once all 10 spots are gone, this discount will not be offered again.

Call me now at (number), or send an email with your information to (email address).

Yours in business,
Micheal Perkins
Owner - SiteName.com

Back to John's voice...

Mike, unless I'm as tech savvy as you, there just isn't much there to get excited over...

What does you site being on the first page of Google mean to the property manager? How many people will see the ad? How will that translate to something that benefits him? How many people click the ads?

I might be wrong, but I think that as it stands, if you mail that letter without some serious pre-selling or back-up information, all you'll have to show for it are some postage bills to write off on your taxes.

If I got this letter in the mail, I'd probably round-file it immediately. If I was bored enough, I might look to see what you're peddling, but likely not.

Hate to rain on your parade like this, but I get the sense you're a big boy and can take it in the spirit it was offered...

Thanks

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Micheal Perkins

15 years ago

Andrew and John. Thanks for the tips.

I was comparing it to a free apartment guide that is displayed in a few stores and other businesses around my area. They charge several hundred dollars for an ad on one of their pages. That was where I was getting my pricing from.

Thanks for pointing out the part of my letter about the guarantee. I did not relay that well in the letter. It was meant that I stand behind my guarantee 100% to give a pro-rated refund.

I originally developed my website to follow this rent-a-site model. But I started thinking about the additional revenue I could generae by offering ad space to several managers, instead of just renting the site to 1 manager. I appreciate the feed back, especially pointing out how managers might look at it.

I think I will just go back to the original model of this method and try that first.

Thanks for the critiques,
Mike

Thanks

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MrYossu

15 years ago

Mike,

John beat me to the comments on the letter, but I just want to add that you shouldn't dump the letter, you just need to tweak it a little.

My first thoughts on reading it were "Goody for you, what does it have to do with me?" All you need to do is reword it a little to emphasise the benefits to the business owner right from the first line.

Don't throw the whole thing out when you can just modify it.

Hope this helps

Thanks
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JohnMcCabe

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MrYossu

Mike,

John beat me to the comments on the letter, but I just want to add that you shouldn't dump the letter, you just need to tweak it a little.

My first thoughts on reading it were "Goody for you, what does it have to do with me?" All you need to do is reword it a little to emphasise the benefits to the business owner right from the first line.

Don't throw the whole thing out when you can just modify it.

Hope this helps

"John beat me to the comments on the letter"... We're even, MrYossu

Mike, the idea behind the letter is sound. Busy property managers are always looking for new leads to fill vacancies. If you can offer them a way to generate those leads at value, they'd be fools not to try it. The trick is getting them to believe and recognize that value.

Here's how I would change things up...

Give them a peek behind the curtain.

Instead of "my site is now on the first page of Google," which is a 'so-what', tell them why that first-page listing is valuable.

My site is on the first page of Google for [keyword]. According to Google itself, xx,xxx people searched on that term just last month. That's xx,xxx people looking for exactly what you offer. Statistically, x,xxx of these people will visit my site. And your business could be there waiting for them. If xxx of those people contacted you, how many new contracts do you think you could close? How much would that be worth to you?

Instead of telling them it's a bargain, create a comparison that will satisfy the logical side of their minds.

You're probably aware of the [free guide name]. This guide charges several hundred dollars for a one-time ad in their book, which they distribute by leaving them at selected locations. What has to happen for that $xxx ad to be seen?

Someone actually hunting for an apartment has to go into one of those locations, pick up the free guide, read through it, pick your ad out of all the others, choose to call you based on the tiny message space available, and make the call. All before they lose or throw away the guide...

With an ad on my site, the only people likely to see your ad are people actively hunting for an apartment in your area. When they check out your ad, they see your whole message (taking as much space as it needs) without your competitors vying for their attention. And to contact you, all they have to do is fill out a simple form and send it in - before life distracts them.

At $500 a month, that's a great value. If you're one of the first ten to stake out your spot, it's an even better value...

Things that are intuitive and obvious to you may not be to your prospects. Spell things out for them. Tell them why what you're offering is such a great deal, and why they should believe what you say.

Something to think on, anyway...

[ 2 ] Thanks

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momwow

15 years ago

Gogetta, you about ready to release your WSO about this rent a site idea? If you need a proofreader or something - pick me! Pick me!

Diana

Thanks

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RockstarBen

15 years ago

I am about to use this concept to create a vertical market for my consulting business. Most of what I do is high-cost, high attention. Most clients are paying us 4-5 figures for our services, as we really rack up the hours with them. This method would allow my firm to create a new profit center with a less hands-on approach to offer something of residual value.

I will post up my results as I progress this part of my business. Thanks for sharing this awesome idea!!!

Thanks

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Awesome Ben! There are many opportunities with this model, MANY!

GoGetta

[ 1 ] Thanks

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zanbrok

15 years ago

Originally Posted by GoGetta

I have been selling 2 packages for the ready made site:

1. Content Change and Contact Details Change - Around $100-$150 a month! No setup fees! Great selling point!

2. Content and Image Changes - Around $100 - $150 a month but with an added setup fee. This I have flexibilty with depending on the amount of graphical changes I need to make but usually nothing lower than $500!

This is the most popular package becasue every business wants to put there own stamp on the site and this is the one package I sell more heavily! But for businesses strapped for cash, the 1st package is ample.

The beauty of this though is that the site remains mine including the domain name and I just pick up easy RENTAL residuals. If you bring in 12 or 24 month contracts the money only becomes better. I haven't done this yet but intend to!

Business owners can see what they are buying in to and also have the added bonus of being live the very same day!

Now, if a business owner doesn't want it anymore, all you do is rent it to someone else! SIMPLE, EASY RESIDUAL CASH! But if the site is in prime position for targeted searched for keywords, who would want to give the site up?

I have tried and tested this on 3 different niches now and have rented all sites out very quickly, as it is an easy sell. It's there and in full view! If one business owner doesn't take it, his or her competitor will. I just cold call businesses and post classifieds, show my site off and collect the check!
Simple and easy!

The only costing I have is the domain, hosting and phone bill for contacting clients! ; ) NOTHING REALLY!

Gogetta, when you say no cost, what about building links? Are you building and up keeping any links at all to these sites to keep them ranked there?

In regards to option 2. Content and Image Changes. You said this is the more common choice of clients? What do you do with the images? You just brand them with their logo etc.? How much do you change the content?
So with this option you make the $100-$150 a month plus $500 to modify the site?

Thanks
1 reply

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Originally Posted by sgtaw

A question...

If you are adding content based on what the client wants.... What happens when they decide to cancel the service? Who now owns that content, you or the client?

Ed

Sharpee answered this above pretty much how I wopuld of answered it. I do the same. If I change images, for example the header image then I would charge accordingly as a setup fee, if the client cancels, the images revewrt back to the original.I would then forward on the images to the client as they have paid for them.

Originally Posted by zanbrok

Gogetta, when you say no cost, what about building links? Are you building and up keeping any links at all to these sites to keep them ranked there?

In regards to option 2. Content and Image Changes. You said this is the more common choice of clients? What do you do with the images? You just brand them with their logo etc.? How much do you change the content?
So with this option you make the $100-$150 a month plus $500 to modify the site?

I will design images how they want. If they want a branded header I do this, if they have images to put within the content, again I will design them and implement them. I charge depending on the job. If they want all images changing and many images adding then the cost will go up accordingly.

Depeding on the competition, I would continue to build links if needed, for most keywords I have found this isn't needed to much. But if they are paying a monthly fee, that is on the proviso I am delivering resultss, so again I am getting paid to do this! The more work needed the more I charge per site!

HTH

GoGetta

Thanks
1 reply

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sharpee 15 years ago

For anyone who wants a quick start in this 'Rent A site' strategy then GoGetta's RENT-A-SITE - EASY OFFLINE RESIDUALS WSO that was released today is a brilliant guide. (I can't post on the WSO thread as not enough posts yet) It gives a clear pathway forwards to making some real money from this strategy and I'm following it as fast as I can with very limited time availability, but I'll get there in the end.
- [ 1 ] Thanks
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Edward Aw

15 years ago

A question...

If you are adding content based on what the client wants.... What happens when they decide to cancel the service? Who now owns that content, you or the client?

Ed

Thanks
1 reply

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sharpee 15 years ago

I'm doing it on the basis that I write the content according to their requirements but it remains mine. Obviously if they supplied the text then it would be theirs but it would be fairly easy to re-write similar content if they stop renting the website. Might cause a temporary blip in the Google Results as content changes but fairly easy to get back on first page for the low competition localised keywords.

Pictures are similar situation - I would remove theirs and put mine up but keep the filenames etc the same so hopefully doesn't affect the SEO.
- Thanks
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GoGetta

15 years ago

Sharpee,

Thanks for that, glad you like it!

GoGetta

Thanks

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momwow

15 years ago

I bought your WSO and am re-reading it - I'm a bit confused by your assertion that if the results for the keyword search terms include a lot of directories that it will be tough to out-rank them.

I always thought it was just the OPPOSITE - that the only reason the directories showed up is because nobody with a local website bothered to do some decent SEO!

My town (not quite 100K) isn't big enough for most searches to show up in Google's keyword tool.

Would still like, from you or whoever else is doing this, a list of "top 10" niches to start with. Built a site on "lawn care". Am thinking of doing handyman, landscaping, auto repair, painting - those types of niches. Good? Bad?

Diana
PS I'm also surprised you can get a site to rank with only 2 or 3 pages - what do you think of adding articles or blog posts?

Thanks

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GoGetta

15 years ago

Hi Diana,

It always depends when it comes to SEO, independent sites show you can target the keyword, directories do not make the keyword impossible, just a little harder in my oppinion. I can only give you my experiences. As you will see in the guide I have ranked a site top page with only 3 pages, I have never found that to be an issue.

But added articles and a blog would be good, I keep it short, sweet and quick as I mentioned in the guide.

As far as a top 10, there is no top 10 list, I haven't tapped in to every single niche so wouldn't know what the top 10 are. I have explained in the guide which niches I have targeted. Researching as I show you in the guide should give you the tools to find profitable niches. It isn't theory, I only give my real experience, I am doing this everyday, offline is what I do!

Hope that answers your questions,

Take action!

GoGetta

Thanks

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