Pay Before Service? How Do You Feel?

40 replies
I think that paying before receiving a service is not good business. Dont know that all would agree with me as there are some vendors that sell their services here on WF and else where that you pay first and they produce a great service and on time.

It seems that everyone wants to be paid first then give the service but then guess what happens. Life gets in the way and they have nothing but excuses why they didnt provide on time. Even then they will sometimes provide you with crap.

This has happened to me more than once here on WF and then you have to go thru filing a claim with PayPal and then play the waiting game.

I beleive that there should be a 50% payment at the start to show good faith and then when you are happy with the work pay the balance and even pay extra if you feel it is warranted.

When someone already has your money in full then it is too easy for them to not meet the deadline. If they dont have all the money then they have incentive to complete and with quality.

Am I the only one that feels this strong on this issue?
#feel #pay #service
  • Profile picture of the author Gambino
    I rarely pay someone up front. Too many scammers out there. Unless, it's someone I've worked with previously or someone with a lot of credible, positive feedback.

    Generally, scammers operate the same way. They need the funds immediately for _____ reason. They over promise on how well they do, and then they never meet deadlines. Finally, they return junk work, or no work at all.

    I almost always give a bonus to people who complete tasks on time and work hard. I try to build long term relationships with people. It's too hard and to continuously hire new people and worry about if they're capable, or are going to, deliver the job.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    I would never pay for the full service before work starts... nor should you have to. 50% is fair because there is a risk for both parties. I have no problem paying a service provider 50% deposit in good faith but never more. That is unless it's someone I trust and have worked with over and over. But a service provider really should not expect the full payment upfront. That then puts ALL the risk on you.
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  • Profile picture of the author danwood
    Pay before is the main internet rule, that´s why someone has created a thing called "feedback"
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    • Profile picture of the author deckman
      Originally Posted by danwood View Post

      Pay before is the main internet rule, that´s why someone has created a thing called "feedback"
      What makes this the "Main Internet Rule" ? Is this a unwritten rule?
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    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author Thomas
        Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

        Depending on the amount being charged, you can break it down into an agreed upon set of "Milestones", like this:
        1. 20% - Start of Project
        2. 20% - 1st Draft Delivery
        3. 20% - 2nd Draft Delivery
        4. 20% - Final Revision
        5. 20% - Deployment/Acceptance
        The percentages can be paid based on specific dates with penalties and bonuses as well - it varies according to the type of work being provided.
        This is standard practice in the "real world"!

        As someone who was involved in the construction industry for a long time, I can tell you that people who don't provide their services this way don't get contracts.

        Ever.
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        • Profile picture of the author deckman
          Originally Posted by Thomas View Post

          This is standard practice in the "real world"!

          As someone who was involved in the construction industry for a long time, I can tell you that people who don't provide their services this way don't get contracts.

          Ever.
          I am a 30+ year contractor any it has been my policy to do 50/50. I have had a few customers squawk but I just tell them that they dont give me 50% till I am on the job with materials ready to do the work.

          My contract are fairly large and to drop 3-5 grand on materials can be a gamble. I have had a few over the years that tell me they have been urnt before but they then offer to do stage payments. When I see this I tell them that that is good enough commitment and I tell them that we will just take payment in full when i complete.

          It is a risk from either angle but that is why they have escrow when you do real estate deals?
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Moore
    Call me old fashioned, but you should pay after the service is provided unless there is a way to guarantee refund in the case that you are unsatisfied with the product.
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    • Profile picture of the author deckman
      Originally Posted by Steve Moore View Post

      Call me old fashioned, but you should pay after the service is provided unless there is a way to guarantee refund in the case that you are unsatisfied with the product.
      With PayPal, if you file for a refund and the vendor does not agree and the vendor escalates the claim, it can take a few weeks for PayPal to make a decision. This is to say that there is no guarantee for a refund if this happens. A good vendor will have a written guarantee usually with a "No questions Asked" policy.

      If you will watch in the vendors ad and see all the mumbo jumbo about when they will refund, well this is almost a sure sign that they will dispute.

      I have been thru this with a vendor here on WF and it would probably be the Right Thing To Do to mention the vendor but I didnt start this thread to do that so I wont.

      I just feel that I should have made it very, very clear what the refund policy was because I can for sure say that they did not hold up to what the ad promised. After a few back and forth's with the vendor, PayPal did refund my money but with out placing and blame on the vendor type deal. They said that they did it because i have been such a valued customer of PP for such a long time.

      Half on start as a gesture of good will on your part and then the balance when you are satisfied is just a good clean and safe way to do business with someone that you dont know.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
        Originally Posted by deckman View Post

        With PayPal, if you file for a refund and the vendor does not agree and the vendor escalates the claim, it can take a few weeks for PayPal to make a decision. .
        Patpal will find in the vendors favor for services. They are not covered under Buyer Protection. Same with digital goods.

        I always charge 50% up front. We both have risk, although I am well known enough that no one worries about my delivery.

        50% is totally fair in this business.
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        • Profile picture of the author deckman
          Originally Posted by Tim_Carter View Post

          Patpal will find in the vendors favor for services. They are not covered under Buyer Protection. Same with digital goods.

          I always charge 50% up front. We both have risk, although I am well known enough that no one worries about my delivery.

          50% is totally fair in this business.
          Tim, your statement "Paypal will find in the vendors favor for services." is not totally accurate even though in their claim policy it says " Services are not covered under Buyer Protection. Same with digital goods."

          I know this because I filed a claim that was immediately escalated by the vendor. It took about 4 weeks then I was notified by PP that they issued me a refund and it was not just a couple of hundred dollars. PP will take these on a case by case basis.
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  • Profile picture of the author JeremiahSay
    I totally agree with you deckman.. When I first started IM, I paid a fellow warrior in full to get 10 articles written, obviously it didn't end up well, I gotten crap work.. furthermore, he's 1 week late on delivery.

    Today when hiring/outsourcing projects.. I only pay 50% initially and will only pay the remaining 50% upon completion. It's much better this way and I'm certain it's fair for both parties.
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  • Profile picture of the author deckman
    Its kinda like "Surprise Me" when you pay in advance. Sometimes you get quality but then other times you may be getting stuff that will get you penalized by G.

    I have even ordered writing from warriors that have a lot of great feedback and still end up with crap that I would dare associate my brand with. On the other end the writer put in the time to write and you almost dont even want to start a debate that comes with asking for a refund.

    With the latest Algo change maybe it will help clean some of this crap up.
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  • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
    I think that 50% before is often the most fair.

    I look at things from the product/service providers
    point of view too. Why should they spend 10-20
    hour working on your project when before they even
    deliver, you might lose interest in the project, etc.?

    Both parties need to balance out the risk, and the
    agreement/understanding needs to be in writing.

    Willie
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    • Profile picture of the author DWK
      As a writer, I would hate to spend all that time writing for someone and not get paid for my work. On the other hand, I would hate to shell out my hard-earned dollars to end up with writing that didn't suit my needs. This is why words like communication, honesty and trust are vital. Why not pay for one article and see if it's up to snuff before asking for more?
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  • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
    Consider this from the point of view of a services business.

    Many people who order on credit will also drag the chain, delay and never pay.

    When I charge upfront I never have to add a fee for late payment so it is cheaper than the fee I would build in for delayed payment where a customer is making me the credit provider.

    In short - My services cost less than they would if I had to offer credit because of the way I structure my business. It works.
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  • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
    from the point of view of a buyer, get the terms you want if possible and remember to do your due diligence. If you dont trust the seller build in a margin for risk.

    If your seller is selling in cheap market place and has no reputation then naturally this will increase risk of non-fulfilment.

    It is the choice of the buyer and the seller what terms are made. There is no right or wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
    And this should also be based on the type of work you are outsourcing..

    However, it's logical to pay down some amount of money to safeguard both parties.
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  • Profile picture of the author telxutixu
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Leatherman
    I have worked both ways and had pretty good success both ways. However, I have been burnt by paying the 50% and the full amount up front a couple of times. IMO it comes down to who you are working with on both sides.

    But as we all know it is up to each of us to determine who we are going to work with or take on as customers. And for some services it is necessary to get full payment up front.

    Ken
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  • Profile picture of the author deckman
    I have to agree with Big Mike as he said it in a way that fits pretty damn close. Paying upfront does seem to take away incentive or motivation to assure that the job is done to a certain degree whether time or quality.

    I have found an excellent writer but at .04 per word it gets your cost up quick. A lot of people promise quality then you get the finished product and it reads like they are watching the word counter instead of writing in a way that someone will enjoy reading. This makes for a bad product. Do you then go back and waste valuable time stirring a ruckus asking them to redo or even a refund?

    I guess you could almost say that content falls in to 4 different categories. If you are selling a product, service, giving info or just running adsense sites?
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    Paying everything upfront is a risky game. I would pay 50% upfront, then the rest after the service has been completed. You may even want to get some lawyers into action. Or use a site like escrow .com.
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  • Profile picture of the author Eric Huard
    I am comfortable with 50% upfront and the rest when work is done.
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  • Profile picture of the author PR Wizard
    I generally accept 50% upfront for my work, its a sign of good faith both on the part of the client and myself. It shows that we are both serious. Upon delivery of work though I expect prompt payment of the other half. When I have a long-term client that takes forever to pay I usually move them into the full-payment upfront category. At this point though they know that my work is quality and usually don't have a problem with that. I also buy services from other people from time to time and would never pay in full to a new untested supplier.
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    • Profile picture of the author deckman
      Originally Posted by PR Wizard View Post

      I generally accept 50% upfront for my work, its a sign of good faith both on the part of the client and myself. It shows that we are both serious. Upon delivery of work though I expect prompt payment of the other half. When I have a long-term client that takes forever to pay I usually move them into the full-payment upfront category. At this point though they know that my work is quality and usually don't have a problem with that. I also buy services from other people from time to time and would never pay in full to a new untested supplier.
      Hello PR Wizard,

      Couldnt help but notice you WF name and I assume you are a PR Wizard. Assuming this do you have any of your previous PR's you could share so that I can make an evaluation if I like your PR style?

      Thank You Much.
      Deckman
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      • Profile picture of the author PR Wizard
        Hi there Deckman,
        I actually have a journalism degree with PR as my major and I've been doing marketing of all sorts for large and small clients for several years now. I'm planning to start taking on new clients soon as I have some large projects coming to a close. When I get to that point I will be glad to send you some samples. Thanks for the interest, I appreciate it!
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  • Profile picture of the author AllanWard
    From a seller's perspective, I'd like at least 50% upfront from the buyer so they can show that they're serious. However, it all depends on what you're selling and what the risk is to each party. If you're selling a $5 product the risk isn't high - all you stand to lose is $5. But if it's a $5,000 product the risk is much higher to both parties. If you're selling a service you should get paid as each step of the service is completed.
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  • Profile picture of the author deckman
    Please do as i have three new sites that I want to use some PR's to help getting some traffic to them. A lot of self acclaimed writers also claim to do PR's. To me a PR has to be written with a catchy/interesting title and then follow up with news worthy press talk and I havent seen many that know how to do this.

    I have one that does some damn good writing on my team that I will try out on PR's but I want a couple of tried and true so that I am not dependent on one that may be busy at the time of need.

    What brings you around to WF?

    Thanks for Your Response
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    • Profile picture of the author PR Wizard
      I own a few sites and I'm always interested in new ways to monetize them. I'm pretty sure that I found the warrior forum by accident but I've picked up some gems here and there.
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      • Profile picture of the author deckman
        Originally Posted by PR Wizard View Post

        I own a few sites and I'm always interested in new ways to monetize them. I'm pretty sure that I found the warrior forum by accident but I've picked up some gems here and there.
        Welcome to WF!

        Please let me know when you are available!
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        • Profile picture of the author unisoft
          Almost with any services you need to pay before. I think it is good because it is possible after taking the service people may deny Payment. You can't treat services as like as product.
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  • Profile picture of the author YasirYar
    It is okay to pay upfront, only if you know the service provider you are dealing with, i.e. they can offer guaranteed service with money-back in case something comes up. Or, if you are buying a service from a reputable company that also has a 30-day money back guarantee.

    Otherwise, it can be tough locating them if they are the 'shady' types who are just after a quick buck!
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  • Profile picture of the author Rukshan
    It depends on amount of project cost and Sellers reputation. If you trust seller, I don't see a problem with paying 100%.
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  • Profile picture of the author asha91
    If it's a first time transaction, paying the seller 10 -20 percent upfront does show a good measure of faith. I mean, why should he or she trust you if you are willing to trust him or her? The rest can be paid when the final product is handed over. But paying completely upfront, definitely not a good idea on the Internet, or anywhere at that. (Unless you are paying for well-known services like Groupon, etc).
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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    I always ask for the full amount before I do the writing or proofreading work. How can I get my money if I give the work out and then ask to be paid? I have never had trouble with it and it sorts out the genuine clients from the time wasters as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author Merden
    Online jobs run on trust each other. You should pay some advance before taking warrior services is good deal. Both party tight together in such deals.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikeye
    Think of clients who are very slow in providing documents or materials and in making final approvals, and find all excuses to complain about your services and refuse to pay after your services, you will never be paid for years and definitely want to be paid upfront, or at least before you deliver your final work, depending on what your service is.

    I'm from an accounting firm background and I've seen so many clients not paying for years and we eventually have to take them to court. You don't want this to happen to your business.
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  • Profile picture of the author adamj2
    I recently offered my services as a freelance writer and also doing online press releases and I would not have started work without upfront payment.

    If it was a large project then splitting it up with 50% upfront and 50% afterwards could be quite a good arrangement though if it was a trustworthy buyer. Or having set payment milestones etc.

    But it does not make sense from the service provider or freelancer's point of view to essentially start working for free without having received any payment. I wouldn't have done it.
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  • Profile picture of the author TaylorLu
    Banned
    Unfortunately, paying before service is very common, but I would not recommend it. You should not pay for anything unless you are sure that you are NOT making a donation, instead of a business.
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  • Profile picture of the author syedqurat
    I think that 50% before is often the most fair.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dazzling Content
      I always charge 100% upfront payments. Some people may say that paying 100% upfront is risky but they don't consider the side of the service provider. I have been victimized several times by clients who never paid the remainder of the agreed upon fee after receiving my work.

      If clients are worried about getting scammed, they can always check the reputation of the service provider. Service providers shouldn't be the ones to check the reputation or integrity of their clients.
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