New Clickbank color coded risk tier accounts

by 337 replies
421
Just logged in to my clikbank account and I see a new notice from clickbank

You can read more about it here
Refunds and Chargebacks

Taken directly from this page

The new risk tiers are composed of 6 color-coded tiers, each with an indication of the risk management level for the account:

Violet Tier - Lowest risk account, great performance, exceptional customer satisfaction
Blue Tier - Low risk account, great performance, strong customer satisfaction
Green Tier - New or Good quality with good customer satisfaction
Yellow Tier - Some risk issues, these should be identified and corrected
Orange Tier - Major risk issues which must be improved, account termination potential
Red Tier - Out of compliance with risk standards and must be improved as soon as possible, at risk of account termination

and my account is considered Moderate risk :confused: hmm

Just updating everyone here.

Have a nice day

Brandon
#main internet marketing discussion forum #accounts #clickbank #coded #color #risk #tier
  • Yeah.. I was surprised when I logged into my CB account too.. What the hell? My main account even got a warning. No wonder everybody is migrating to different platforms..



    Uh oh... Additional fees. Allowance is already being enforced at a much higher percentage:

    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • The thing is my refund rate is usually below 5% on average. So not sure why im getting a "moderate risk" Oh well lets see in a few weeks time if i an improve my "risk" level

      Anyways I see this as a good move by clickbank, if your an affiliate, you'll now know which products are worth promoting, which are nt and also for vendors to improve on their existing products.
  • Id like to know how these clowns come to these conclusions. I have a product listed there that rarely gets refunds and its apparently "HIGH RISK"

    They can terminate my account for all I care. Cant wait to get outta there.
    • [1] reply
    • Just logged into my account, and am at moderate risk (green).

      If it helps to clean up their marketplace from products that have high refunds and chargebacks, it may be a good thing. Will have to wait and see how it works out.
      • [2] replies
  • My main account is green tier. not too bad i guess. But i don't do all that much on CB these days so it doesn't really matter too much to me.
  • wow did yall check out the additional fees? These are crazy high.

    Refunds and Chargebacks
    • [2] replies
    • So for high risk, some numbskull orders my product, then intentionally refunds, and I GET PENALIZED for it. These dickheads have lost the plot. That means a $97 product refunded costs me $106.

      One word David ---> DITCH.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
    • It looks like ClickBank is evaluating refunds from the both the vendor and the affiliate, and instituting new fees to weed people out.

      If your product generates a lot of refunds the new fees will force you out. If, as an affiliate, your referrals result in a lot of refunds it may not be profitable for you.

      I presume this will end IM product sales in ClickBank, maybe most products - although it remains to be seen what refund rate will result in an orange or red rating. Will a ____% refund rate be good or bad?

      Maybe Visa and MasterCard are starting to clobber ClickBank from their end.

      ClickBank has become too well known as the place to get products for free with its automatic refund policy, and now the company is trying to do something about it to raise the quality of its marketplace. The problem, though, isn't just product quality, it is that ClickBank allowed itself to become the land of the free.

      If you want to take out a competitor, especially a new one ....

      .
      • [ 7 ] Thanks
  • Well, the reality is that CB is just a middle man in most ways. Their merchant providers and PP or the FTC must be all over their asses for them to make these kind of changes.

    Those are some big additional fees that are going to send merchants running for the hills.

    Hell, even many adult/ very high risk merchant providers fees are less than CB now.

    I don't really care they don't mean much to me, but this will put the hurt on a lot of folks.
    • [2] replies
    • I'm in the moderate risk, even though my overall refund rate is 6.1% which I think is pretty good. :confused:

      Anyway, I like this change, because this is gonna push a lot of scammy vendors out of the Marketplace and hopefully eventually improve the reputation of Clickbank.
      • [1] reply
    • Adult is 15% per transaction and mostly even 5% holdback for 6 months, how can you even compare that to clickbank?
  • They can set as many color codes as they like. Ditching CB was on my "to-do" list anyway. This has just bumped it up a few places.
  • Just another example of greed and profiteering.

    The whole thing stinks, if they want affiliates to do well they should stop being secretive about product refund rates and make them available, then nobody will promote the crap, all the dishonest vendors will crash and burn, the honest one's with poor products will go away and improv them, customers will get get better value for money, and affiliates will make a nice profit, and so will CB.

    As it happens I have not used my own account for a long time and it is considered 'moderate risk'
    My own interpretation is... moderate risk of being legally ripped-off in the future, needless to say I won't be sending CB any more sales.

    There are plenty more fish in the sea, let's all bale out and see what happens to CB then. I forsee another policy change PDQ.
  • if you look at the chart on the page i linked to, it kinda seems like maybe the affiliates are also going to be on the hook for an extra charge back fee if they are labeled high risk.

    So maybe it has to do with the refund/chargeback rate you produce as an affiliate?
    • [1] reply
    • Good Post!
      My Vendor account has been marked as "LOW RISK" (blue).
      However, i feel it is high time to jump ship.
      The tide is turning on clickbank and it's only a matter of time until all that made them "clickbank" is gone.

      The future is very clear to me:
      Many Vendors and affiliates will move to EU based payment/affiliate tracking processors and in the future possibly Asian processors
      will also pick up on the US slack.

      That is the sound of inevitability
  • Actually, this is for vendors and affiliates. Affiliates will also now be charged fees for refunds and chargebacks depending on which risk category they are in.
  • Banned
    As of 12:16 PM - 11/5/2012 I'm officially dumping Clickbank, I'm done.

    I'm a . I've never had a chargeback (not in IM niche) so that Green tells me they are full of $hit, I'm obviously low risk (no chargebacks). They can change the color daily.

    This is the 3rd negative experience I've had with CB in less than a week.

    They can kiss my moderate a$$.
    • [ 2 ] Thanks
  • [DELETED]
  • Same here - my affiliate account which has few refunds is the same moderate risk as you guys. Funny thing is I stay away from Internet Marketing & Forex to avoid refunds :-)

    Looking at my transactions I had:

    - 0% refunds in Aug
    - 2% refunds in Sept
    - 0% refunds between 0ct 1st - Oct 15%
    - 5% refunds between Oct 15 - present

    This is going to really put the internet marketing and Forex niches into hot water at CB and put CB into some hot water because as much as I avoid those 2 niches I do think that a big chunk of their revenue is coming from there.

    If they want this to work they'll have to look at data over a several month time period. I suspect the high refund rate I saw recently was due to server administration issues and people not getting their downloads from the vendor.

    It took the vendor a few days to work these issues out but customers rightfully upset requested their money back and CB granted it.

    Everything is working as it should be and somehow this is 'Moderate Risk'.
  • It is strange indeed.

    One of my testing accounts has over 100 sales, four refunds and a chargeback yet it's considered to be in the "highest risk" category?

    Four refunds and a chargeback out of 100 sales I would say is pretty darn good on ClickBank..
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Banned
      It depends on what the average is for that product, Josh, perhaps: if it's 2%, then your 5% might be high risk? (For my account, for anything I promote, 4 refunds and 1 chargeback out of 100 sales would be a disaster. It depends what you're promoting it, doesn't it?)

      Until their upline service providers start cracking down in the same way and for the same reasons as ClickBank's, 2Checkout's and Plimus's, maybe. If they're not already the same upline service providers, that is ...
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
  • Oh this should be fun...

    ...Gonna log into my accounts now and see what the crack is, but seeing what's been said here... It ain't looking good!

    James Scholes
  • Yeah I'm done. InfusionSoft here I come.
  • Chargebacks probably hurt much more than refunds, since it is putting Clickbank's merchant account at risk, so even if you only have very few chargebacks it might put you in the high risk category.
  • I looked at my CB account this morning, and freaked out when I saw those "Risk management tier". One would hope that CB will send out emails to alert us of it first. lol
  • Someone needs to come up with a system where if someone refunds the product "instantly" then they get "instantly" locked out of the product.

    Would be hard to do for ebooks, but if you placed everything inside a members area which requires usernames and password then stress the fact that if they refund they WILL lose access immediately, could cut down on the serial refunders.

    All you would need to do is lock your amazon buckets and then the user would have to physically download all the content inside the members area (and some users don't know how to do this anyway).

    Whats the sense in someone refunding a product but keeping full access to it?
    • [1] reply
    • I have a platform/product launching soon that does just that all automatically

      Gaz Cooper
  • This is crazy...if anything is "high risk" it is CB's refund policy.

    Who wouldn't like to have their cake and eat it too?

    Make these digital products so they are disabled and unusable for the customer after they request a refund, and you will see the refund rates drop.

    Every sales page (in my niche) I have ever read for a CB product brags how the risk is all on the merchant, and if they buy and are not satisfied they get a full refund, and get to keep the product as well...in most cases.

    Some products that are on a membership site, or a software product get disabled.

    For PDF products or downloadable video products, the customer (and CB-charging us fees) wins, and the vendor and affiliate lose.

    They need to take a hard look at their refund policy - if they could disable PDF/video products somehow, this will stop the cyber-crooks from stealing digital products.

    Which is the REAL problem here, not just bad merchants and affiliates.

    I don't see CB being able to keep this policy, it will drive everyone away, they might as well close.
    • [3] replies
    • The Fall Of Clickbank

      Harming affiliates for the crappy products vendors come up with...
      • [2] replies
    • As far as disabling the product... it would be a real hassle on vendors to do it most of the time.

      Our platform "http://www.myebookmaster.com" disables refunders when they refund automatically via the API which is nice...

      I think it's important that everyone does it so people don't see CB, and think.. free product!...

      But for repeat offenders I would think that CB and CC companies try to stop predatory folks.
    • Wouldn't a simple statement like "digital delivery, refund not possible" do the trick here? Put what you need on the download page with instructions how to download the content and that's it.
      It is assumed that having paid for the product, one has downloaded the content. If and how they use it, it's their problem.

      Purchase = consent to no refund.
      • [2] replies
  • [DELETED]
    • [1] reply
    • Banned

      I doubt that will help.

      I was selling a non-IM product with literally no chargebacks & still flagged as a moderate risk.
      • [2] replies
  • My affiliate account is at a high risk
    The reason? I'm in IM niche
    Many dishonest people here purchase a course, study it then refund it even it is good.

    many of them just buy to get the bonus then refund.
    I always write honest reviews but when you are in IM niche you need to expect 30% refund rate (mine is even less)
    So, before they apply these measures, they need to do 2 things:
    1- Start from score 100 for all as this is a new measure.
    2- Change their stupid refund rules. They must find a way to stop free courses seekers. Something like strong reason for a refund not without a question like now!!

    I have 0% refund rate in the health niche and I promote products the same way as IM niche, so it's not my fault.

    I guess this is the death of IM on CB
    • [1] reply
    • Banned
      That's the reason I stay out of the IM niche on CB.

      CBs refund policy makes it too easy to scam for refunds. Buyers outside of the IM niche don't try & scam like the IM niche does, there's entire BH forums dedicated to getting IM product refunds.

      I think the best bet for selling in the IM niche is to ship a physical product (CD/DVD) & have the buyer pay return shipping If they want a refund, that would thin out the compulsive refunds that are so easy to get with digital downloads.
      • [ 2 ] Thanks
      • [2] replies
  • A lot of IM products over-hype their products way more than other products, and I have never promoted any products in the IM niche. And many people in IM know about clickbank and use their own id anyway. The IM (ebusiness) category in the clickbank marketplace may be getting much smaller. There are still a lot of other products for affiliates to promote though.
    • [1] reply
    • Your a 100% right. IM products are over-hyped and the people seeking these products will often purchase from an affiliate just for the bonuses they offer and then get a refund.

      This new system is going to push all IM products over to Clicksure because so many IM products will get a poor rating from Clickbank...it's just the nature of IM products.
  • wow...My affiliate account has a refund rate of only 7% from July to date and no chargeback but my account is marked as "Highest Risk".
    • [4] replies
    • Banned

      Doesn't matter If you had chargebacks/refunds, you'll still be a moderate risk at best (like me) lol.
      • [1] reply
    • I'm pretty sure everyone with new accounts or those with regular/decent starting just start out as the moderate risk. It says that if they see that you're doing well by January 2013 you will be lowered/raised based upon performance. So no one that is in good standing is higher than "moderate risk" at the moment. You just have to earn it. It just seems that their labeling is unfortunate making us feel as if our credible efforts are shady, which for some of us is a slap in the face.

      For me this calls for intensive split testing. Not making a call until some monetary evidence that this system sucks tells me to stop promoting CB. I've been doing well so far, if that continues why would I stop?
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • Zappos' refund rate for shoes is 35%

      Lightspeed Venture Partners » Average Zappos return rate: 35%. Best customer return rate: 50%

      .
      • [ 2 ] Thanks
    • You've possibly just branded every WSO as crap.

      Yep. Some people just aren't getting it I guess.

      The situation doesn't make me too pleased but it was in the post evident by the fact that every other stamped their feet and kicked people out.

      CC companies are clearly getting harsh with CB too and this is the reason for the cull. At least there's some degree of warning!
  • Same here...
    • [1] reply
    • They're starting to act like the government.
      Overtaxing and screwing everyone and then wondering why people move their business overseas...
      I loved clickbank, but I guess it's time to pack up and move to other affiliate networks.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • My JV partners' Clickbank product/vendor account has a refund rate set at 6.5%. What I am not getting is how this falls into a tier RED? Also, what I am not getting is how the rating system to be put into effect in January, would relate either?

    Considering how many products this specific product has actually sold... and other areas of consideration, the math does not add up here, that the product would get a 2 star rating, somehow???

    The rules on why and WHAT is being applied here in January, from Clickbank are still rather ambiguous, and fail to represent a product adequately.

    On top of this, it appears that no matter what status your account is in, you will be seeing a TIER when you log in, no matter whether you are an affiliate or a vendor; and thus the anxiety for anybody involved will be high.

    This means that even if your account is in perfect standing, you will still be seeing a violet tier, which also is classified among the accounts that have SOME problems.

    I do not see this system as being fair, or even properly representative of any factors that would be fair.

    Not to mention the fact that the points system is there DAILY. Considering how judgemental clickbank wants to be of it's own customers (us vendors and affiliates), perhaps we, the business customers of Clickbank should return the favor, and remind clickbank that they still do not adequately allow us to prevent the refunds, or address customers therein either.

    The limitations of their refund system, mean that so many bozos are refunding, even without provocation or reason.... sometimes just to get a free product. Sure, a vendor can talk to a customer, but we only get a 24 hour window, and Clickbank auto-refunds this stuff anyway... and secondly, this does not address the products or customers whose native language is NOT English.

    This does not address the customers, who will NOT check that system, and who will NOT be checking it in the next 24 hours before the refund... nor does it address customers who buy and receive the product... and then refund just to avoid payment... etc etc etc.... so many flaws in this, it's unbelievable that Clickbank is penalizing us, the Vendors and Affiliates for mistakes they are ALSO making, and are failing to fix even still.

    Oh, and another product of ours has a 5.5% refund rate, and is still in the highest tier zone.... which is rather confusing. Even a lower refund rate, is still getting a tier red. Imagine that?

    There are so many issues with this system, it's not even funny.
    • [1] reply
    • You don't have to use ClickBank.

      .
  • I just checked our CB accounts. Only the ones with IM products are medium or moderate risk. The others in non-IM niches are all low-risk. As others have stated, it's just too well-known within the IM community that CB = free product. I was planning on taking all of our non-IM products off of CB anyway, so this doesn't really bother me much.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [2] replies
    • Just thought I'd reiterate on how Clickbank's refund structure is horrific: My JV guy has a product which has a refund rate of 6% give or take. One customer bought it and emailed within 6 minutes saying, they have changed their mind and would like their money back.

      Another, one said that they've got a credit card debt (because they knew this before purchasing too, but hey... magically they just remembered this???) and need the money they spent on my product back, and if we didn't refund it they'd charge back and mark/taint my JV guy as a fraud with their credit card company!

      The excuses for refunds are more than absurd, many turn into very unrealistic and unreasonable reasons.... none of which CB really lets any vendor PROPERLY address, and none of which a Vendor can properly fight/defend either.

      How ridiculous is this now? Imagine if McDonald's had a refund policy like this in place? It's like going into McDonald's and ordering a burger, taking a bite and then saying "Hey - I've changed my mind about this burger, I want my money back". Now ON TOP of this, the customer gets the refund, and then proceeds to finish their Big Mac and fries... anyway... even after they complained and wanted a refund.
      • [1] reply
    • Why can't IM product vendors just create a bonus that unlocks after 60 days? I mean, am I the only dude that has thought of this...

      Is it against the rules...?

      Umm.. how many ways can you get around that if it is against the rules??
      • [1] reply
  • clickbank becomes more complicated to understand ^_^

    but it's more secure for the buyers
  • Flagged as "Highest Risk" on one of my accounts and I don't even sell any products under the specific account. :confused:

    Thinking maybe that they're factoring in the affiliate products I promote.
    • [1] reply
    • The color code is per account. It would include both vendor and affiliate sales on that account.
  • Everyday IM is getting scarier as ever. What is CB upto?
    • [1] reply
    • Anyone have any suggestions about where to move to for non IM products.

      I've been selling on CB since 2009 in the golf niche, we have had a few refunds in that time (some within minutes of purchase)...we just accepted there would be refunds no matter how good our products...it's always annoying though without any real chance for engagement with the customer.

      I have already started moving our products across to JV Zoo...

      any one have any other suggested sites...
      • [1] reply
  • My account has just been flagged as High Risk lol!
    • [1] reply
    • Join the club.

      I primarily promote an eBook, and the customer gets to keep the book whether they refund or not.

      But, of course the main cause of refunds are because it is a bad product - or I am not promoting it correctly...lol

      Let me ask a question.

      How can an affiliate profit from sending mislead visitors to a merchants sales page?

      You send un-targeted traffic, they bounce off the sales page, right?

      Who would buy something after reading the sales page, and seeing it will not fix their problem, or it wasn't what the website they were just on said it was about?

      So, they obviously thought the product was worth buying, or they wouldn't have bought it, right?

      The affiliate did their job...why the refund fee?

      Now as far as the merchants product being crap...how has it lasted for almost 5 years on CB - or gained a very high gravity?

      Now all of a sudden it is a "high risk"?

      I think the root of the problem is the concept of getting something for nothing...it is much too tempting for most people to resist.

      CB should be working with vendors to help stop the cyber crooks from stealing from us (CB, the vendor, and the affiliate) - not just passing the cost on to the affiliate/vendor.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
  • Ridiculous. My affiliate account has a refund rate of 2%, and a lot of happy customers who thank me for my recommendations. Still, I'm now an apparent "moderate risk".

    I've been gearing up to put my product on CB as a vendor and have spent almost $8k and the last 2 months getting everything in place (product editing, copywriting, sales video, etc). Now, I'm going to look for alternatives as it is clear that even though my (non-IM) product is high quality and will serve a real need, Clickbank intends to punish me for the tiny percent of people who will refund or chargeback.

    Here's an idea for any Clickbank representatives in the house: Bite the bullet on this one. Your "risk scale" metrics are entirely off, and it's insulting to be labeled anywhere other than the lowest level of risk when you run a business as I do. It's even more insulting to try to CHARGE me for refunds and/or chargebacks as an affiliate or vendor. It's in CB's best interests to either scale this back or bite the bullet and cancel this update entirely. If they don't, they WILL lose millions in lost affiliate revenue and vendor charges.
  • Banned
    I guess what irks me the most about CB is, I was promoting a really good product. I've personally bought similar products offline (multiple times).

    Maybe I should hook up with the vendor & work out a deal under a new payment processor? My traffic likes the product & never had a refund on CB.

    That's the downside of all this, some decent products/vendors/affiliates are getting caught in the crossfire.
  • I never liked click bank. Never once saw a product on there I would buy myself and felt like a scammer just thinking about sharing links for the junk hosted on that marketplace.
    • [1] reply
    • Banned

      There's decent products on CB, you just have to dig to find them. Personally, I would be leery of most IM products, but that goes for all the web not just CB.
  • I can't complain about my current vendor 'rating' (Lowest Risk), but their fees are highway robbery.
  • I can see why many are upset and I just joined the list too. Granted, I haven't been doing Clickbank affiliate promoting but maybe for the last few months at most so I was just getting my feet wet and made a few sales here and there for the music niche. And of course, given a refund or two here, since I haven't netted a few sales a week, I'm already placed in the Highest Risk category. I guess for those such as myself who recently got started promoting products, it's about to get real tight and a big struggle trying to get up off the ground before you can get out of the red. Unless you start off making a few affiliate sales or more a week at least and average 1 refund a month at most, you may be placed in the red as well. Guess I can keep trying to promote the products I've done but in the music niche, it seems that there are a fair share of people who have buyer's doubt and don't buy. And I'm not about to turn my blog post into a "You GOTTA Buy This" product instead of a review type basis as I've done.

    I wonder how many vendors that have decent products but that aren't getting enough sales will abandon ship, or how many affiliates that are trying to start into the game will have to end it based on the chargeback fees, the need to bank many a sale to prevent one refund from turning you from yellow to red, and so on. They've lost their mind... I can understand trying to tighten things a bit as there are several sketchy vendors, but I think they're trying to tighten extensively... interesting to see how this plays out after January 2nd.
  • [DELETED]
    • [3] replies
    • I wander if they will eventually crack down on how affiliates promote products. Can Clickbank even track where the hops come from?
      • [2] replies
    • The refund policy doesn't even come into play with chargebacks and it's chargebacks which are likely to be the burning issue.

      If a buyer knew of the simple refund policy they would have no need to make a brute force refund demand by contacting their credit card company.
    • Hey guys, I don't know if anyone at Clickbank will read this, but here is what I just sent them verbatim:

      "Every great empire has its end...

      You think we don't know that this new risk management system is because Clickbank still allows access to products after someone gets a refund? The temptation to get something for nothing is too high and I can't believe you have run a business like this!

      How many stores do you know that allow you to keep their product after getting a refund? - OF COURSE IT WILL FAIL!!
      And now you blame affiliates and want to punish them with lame fees...

      We will be leaving by the thousands-read the forums for yourself.

      --This Will Be Your Fall Clickbank, Say Goodbye --"
      • [ 4 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
  • Thanks for the info
    • [1] reply
    • Just went from moderate to BORDERLINE in less then 12 hours.

      AWESOME.

  • I agree, and I feel that although we are affiliates for some of the products on there, it should be more of an impact to the vendors themselves, and I can see these new codes and what not given to them more so than those of us promoting it. If a product is getting more and more chargebacks and refunds, especially after we've promoted it before those were noted, then the vendor should be more at responsibility to get them. Don't get me wrong, there are some affiliates out there that promote in such ways that it almost completely defies everything about the product, but I still think that the vendor is the one that would be more at fault and at risk of high risk statuses since it is their product. But it's almost as though we all face the same fate, and so if we promote a product for the first time that may not even have any stats in place, it starts off okay and then gets some chargebacks immediately, all of a sudden you're at risk?

    They need to figure out a better way to code everything properly, or I can see Clickbank eventually falling apart. There are quite a few products out there that fall into the N/A category that don't even have stats yet. I guess all of those vendors will be removed since they don't have many sales to even count as being good in Clickbank's eyes? I don't get it, and I agree with you SShip, they've allowed them on there for this long and now affiliates have to pay the price for what they allowed. Yeah, it'll be real interesting to see how they go. Guess it's good I didn't put any of my products on there to try to get affiliates to promote it. They've really lost their damn mind. lol
  • CB in their best!!!
  • What does it mean if you have a mushroom cloud on your account?

    RoD
    • [ 2 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Banned



      • [ 5 ] Thanks
  • Also, let's point out just how well this system is set up for sabotage by competitors...

    If a vendor knows they can perform chargebacks and refunds to move a competing vendor to another "risk tier" AND cost them money, you can bet it will happen.

    So I guess the question for vendors is: Where to now?

    Infusionsoft? JVZoo? The problem is that there just aren't any platforms that can compete with CB in terms of number of affiliates or exposure. Then again, I promote an info product that makes me low four-figures a month (60% payout) as an affiliate through the company's private affiliate program and I'm not even in the top 10% of their affiliates, so I know there is value in other affiliate programs.

    What say you, vendors?
    • [1] reply
    • Its same like the negative SEO people do to get rid of their competitors
  • Yea this is ridiculous I do IM part time. I have made $2,300+ this year on click bank. With only $500 (mostly IM niche products) being refunded. Its not like I have (-) negative account with more refunds than sales.

    ANd they consider me a HIGH risk

    • [2] replies
    • OMG!!! $500 out of $2300 refunded and you call that ONLY??? I refund $20-50 out of each $1000-2000 and think that is already the limit.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [2] replies
    • LOL in less than 3 hours I am now BORDERLINE? I had 1 sale $12 (rebill). lol did that help?

      • [1] reply
  • Get your own merchant accounts and hook up to a CRM like Infusionsoft.

    Anyone who relies on Clickbank to process their transactions is leaving a TONNE of money on the table...

    Not to mention all of these new "account risk level" headaches.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • DaCato,

      Sorry.... The merchant account won't save you either....... Instead of "refunds"... You'll get "charge backs"....... They have the same result... You're not getting the money in the end...

      As a credit card industry "insider," I know all of the loopholes people try to use........ I also know exactly how to close them...... I better write up that WSO....

      God Bless,

      Rich Beck
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
  • Seems there is no Rhyme or Reason for these codes because one of my four accounts has had no activity for about 2 years now and look what it gets.

    There is something fundamentally wrong with their system. It's flawed from the get-go! How can they "Predict" a refund rate when there is NOTHING being sold on that account? I used this account for affiliate marketing only at one point. I've never been a vendor with this account....

    How the Hell can you improve "predicted" results... meaning it's their best guess. If they don't be careful they are going to kill their own business and everyone will move over the ClickSure.
    .

    • [1] reply
    • Yup, my account shows a similar "prediction".

      I think it's safe to say that if they really do go through with this on January 2nd, the IM niche is done on CB, and many other vendors will leave as well. The metrics are way off, the charges are insane and ripe for abuse, and all of the "big boys" will surely move to another payment processor.

      I can only imagine that CB will get so much negative feedback about this from vendors and affiliates that they will either adjust their idiotic "risk tiers" or they will scrap this altogether.
  • Banned
    We'll have to wait and see, but of course at first when logging in my clickbank account I was surprised and said to myself "what now, again?"
    But after reading their system. I see a new metric will come to help me choose products to promote as an affiliate.
    Because gravity is really not relevant, and there is no precision.

    I think in the future, in january, it will be actually quite good to check the products and have a color coded way to spot the good ones with no refunds.
    Ideally they should also give out the number of sales, the total one over the last 2 months, not only the gravity which doesn't mean much especially in internet-related products where nearly everyone who buy it use their own clickbank id.

    I'm quite happy with this change but I'd like more information to be given if they really want to improve their game.

    But we'll see exactly in january how useful this can be.

    Of course I'm not happy about the planned additional fees I'll have as an affiliate, but after all they could have doubled them and since I'm not the owner of clickbank my choice is clear, stay and accept the rules or go elsewhere and accept the elsewhere rules.. :-)
    • [1] reply
    • Banned

      I know right now that will not work.

      The CB product I promote has never had a single chargeback/refund on my end, I've made plenty of sales, so I'm more than sure it's viewed as a good CB product. I know for a fact my traffic is happy with the CB product otherwise I would see refunds (which isn't happening).
      • [1] reply
  • Banned
    It's funny CB is waiting until Jan. 2nd 2013 to make such a drastic move.

    Looks to me like they plan on seeing a major profit drop & putting it off until 2013 tax year.
  • Yeah, I think there algorithm is WAY off.

    Been digging through a few accounts, I have a "high risk" affiliate account with a 32% predicted refund rate BUT get this.

    I haven't used the account since January, and the last commission generated was in February.

    So, I'm past the sixty day refund period, yet I still have a high risk account with a 32% predicted refund rate (even though its way past the refund period)..
  • My real guess is that CB is getting massive pressure from its merchant account. Just like 2checkout did not too long ago. Their underwriters basically told them to bail on IM products.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • CB is under a lot of pressure from a lot of big players, they have been hinting at it in the last year or so I dont really think they are happily making some of their recent changes.

      Anyway my account is low risk
  • I guess Clicksure owners are celebrating now
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • This is all good stuff. What I can't get passed is the "... if your account remains in this tier after January 2, 2013" statement. I'm in the moderate green category with zero chargebacks or refunds. Now, if CB isn't going to post their new "star rating system" for vendors, what are we supposed to check, or fix, or modify before the deadline?
  • Big mistake from clickbank IMHO, because there is no way any affiliate is going to want to market any new products, unless it has a proven track record.
  • I have only just started with CB. I have done 6 sales and 1 refund and got a Moderate Risk score like most of you.

    Edit: Actually I just refreshed my account 20 minutes later and suddenly I'm ranked as 'Good'. I haven't made a sale with CB in the last 30 days...
  • Personally, I think the majority of the issues regarding the CB refund policy are concentrated in just a few markets with the IM market leading the way.

    Granted these are some of the bigger markets for CB at the moment, but maybe they are simply trying to move away from that for various reasons.

    Particularly in the IM market, consumers have been behaviorally trained to buy and refund IM products. This is partly due to CB, but largely due to the sheer amount of crap peddled by IMers.

    People would buy an IM product via CB only to find out they were deceived by the magical sales letter. Then they figure out how easy the CB refund policy is and before you know it word gets around that being a serial refunder is basically allowed at CB.

    Fast forward a few years and keep letting the product quality go down hill at CB while allowing more over the top sales letters and something like this becomes very predictable.

    I have been around way to long to buy into all "the death of" type of predictions, but I will say that I think that CB is probably making a decent effort to move away from the IM market.
    • [ 2 ] Thanks
  • I don't know why folks are defending ClickBank on this thread - the analysis there doing seems off.

    Hilariously - I just went to green in a few hours of checking (initially moderate risk).

    This seems like a very simplistic formula to a complex problem - yes, I make sales just about every hour but not enough to change my overall refund rates.
    • [1] reply
    • I wonder what this means for continuity offers, when all are going to be cancelled/refunded at some stage.

      This is even more the case for continuity offers that are compulsory add-ons to the main product eg. if you buy X you get a month's free trial of Y and if you don't cancel you will be billed every month after that.
  • We're the real middlemen/women here not CB. I think if CB were smart they would have focused on the vendors and the quality of their products they put on the market. Who wouldn't ask for a refund if the product was poor, or worse, outdated. There are products on CB that clearly don't work as well today as they did 3 years ago, yet they remain. Many are tied to changes made by Google.

    This is good reason to focus your business elsewhere. Like all markets, you have to be diverse,or else you could really take a hit if you're too concentrated.
  • Just logged in that my status is now changed into "Unacceptable".

    Apparently they just changed the levels:

    • Unacceptable accounts will lose 2 points per day.
    • Borderline accounts will lose 1 point per day.
    • Good, Very Good, and Excellent accounts will gain 1 point per day up to a maximum of 100 points.
    A few hours earlier I just checked it was "highest risk"....lol
  • Huh, that's strange... Within the last hour all but 1 account now shows Good instead of Medium Risk and the other shows Below Average. However the "Predicted" results are still the same... Obviously this is still being worked out...
    • [2] replies
    • Yup. A couple hours ago I was "moderate risk". Now I have this:


    • They must have been reading this thread and panicked
  • If you as a product vendor are responsible for what affiliates do, you should have the option of "firing" affiliates who don't perform. Therefore vendors should have a list of affiliates and their statistics refund/chargeback rates too (and have the right to choose which ones they allow to promote their products).

    Meanwhile the green account status has been relabelled from "Moderate Risk" to "Good".
    • [2] replies
    • This could make a good TV Program.

      The Affiliate: You're Fired


      .
      • [ 3 ] Thanks
    • What a valid point as well... I don't know if many people on this forum even take advantage of that, I know some of the people in my industry certainly haven't.
  • You are calling employees, how is that going to change anything? Its just employees, they don't make the rules, they just do their jobs.
  • Oh dear, upon checking further of my accounts I found this:



    I actually find it funny because I use this account for MEMBERSHIP sites only..so obviously there are soe refunds due to people cancelling their membership.

    Still only two refunds for the past two weeks, and I'm "unacceptable"
    • [1] reply
    • well sorry to hear that.

      I make my living on clickbank in several niches.

      They are trying to clamp down on the scams, and also low quality products, as they do have fees to process for refunds, and they are taking this opportunity to make money from this in the process and pass on responsibility to the vendor.

      I am 50 / 50 whether this is a good thing or a bad thing. On one hand, its gunna keep more chitty products away from clickbank. And one the other, its really going to give clickbank a bad name, or add to its negatives.
  • Sweet, kick me in the nads while I'm already down... said "Highest Risk" earlier, but let's change the name to "Unacceptable" and push it forward from there. Lol! Guess I have to immediately find other products to promote that will get me some more sales by Jan 2nd, or I'm as good as toast. I wonder what they'll do for everyone that gets suspended that still managed to bring some sales to those vendors that aren't sketchy. I can only imagine how all of this is going to go down for both vendors and affiliates once the initial points kick in. Hmmmm...
  • LOL! One of my products that nearly get any refunds at all is in the "Borderline"..

    Well.. I've said it before and I'll say it again - ClickBank is digging their own grave. They were good for two years ago but now, they are only losing their shares to other retailers because of stupid sh*t like this!

    Maybe I should move over to JVzoo or ClickSure? At least they don't advertise "Get a Refund Here!" in the receipts & tease their vendors with crap like this.
    • [2] replies
    • The problem with JVzoo is that they work with paypal. I wouldn't trust paypal with high payments or too many recurring members, as they can cut you off anytime, for any reason. And clicksure, I didn't even know they exist until now and checking their website, it looks like a $5 website from flippa.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [2] replies
    • Neither does ClickBank.

      .
      • [4] replies
  • Here's my new account status. I just logged in and to my surprise this is what I found...






    Joking of course...
    • [ 14 ] Thanks
  • Banned
    Lol, now my CB account reads .

    Tomorrow will probably be classified as Meh...





  • Now I'm too scared to promote clickbank products.
  • I have been with clickbank for almost 5 years now, I have nothing but good things to say about them. However, this new change is good and bad for various reasons.

    The bad - As an affiliate, if you're promoting a product which ends up having higher refunds/chargebacks, you get the hammer too. In other words, your destiny isn't within your control anymore.

    2nd - No matter how good a product is, refund rates will definitely remain high on clickbank because of their no questions asked policy. How do I know this? I know some big vendors who have top-notch products & still hit around 10% refunds or more during a 60 day period. The thing is no one openly admits to these numbers.

    Some customers give absolutely ridiculous reasons for refunds & you can clearly tell that, they just want to screw you over.

    The Good -

    It will probably wipe out a ton of low quality products which were questionable to begin with. So they'll have to adapt & improve their quality or will be wiped out.
  • Banned
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Also, if an affiliate writes a pile of crap about a product, then sends them to their landing page, which says nothing of the sort, it's their own fault if they buy it.

    (Not saying I write false information about products, but it's really under the byers control)
    • [2] replies
    • Banned
      To be fair, not all affiliates send their traffic to the vendor squeeze page, I don't.

      I'm an honest guy with my traffic, nothing more than the facts for the product (zero hype) on my custom sales pages. Still, I'm sure there's folks that over hype a product & bypass the vendor squeeze page.

      The reason I bypass the vendor squeeze page is, most vendors have an email optin form directly on their CB squeeze page. I don't part with my traffic for free.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
    • Thing is, this will affect the Vendors' quality score too... and what about affiliates who come in, and become an affiliate, under the radar, or outside of the vendor too?

      How is the vendor supposed to keep track of every single affiliate, and every campaign that every affiliate is doing?

      Clickbank is the one who gives them the details to start promoting, though some vendors do advertise to get affiliates, and do have affiliate pages on their websites... it still makes it tricky then, for the Vendor, who has to pay the refund fees/chargeback fees each time.

      AlexaSmith pointed out that part of this issue, is the connection between how the affiliate sells something (the affiliate), the product itself (the vendor), and finally the customer.

      I agree somewhat on that principle too, that the gap can be tightened so the sales funnel is cleaner; however things still get messy even with a clean sales page for the product itself, and a hearty product, up-sells, and bonuses etc... and then the affiliate promotion that is in line.

      I can have campaigns that personally don't get refunded by some customers, but others will refund it. So then is it just a matter of preference, in the customers themselves?

      How about campaigns, that cut out most of the refunds, campaigns that do work (whether it's the vendor advertising, or the affiliate)... are we really suggesting here, that everyone requires a 0% refund rate for ANY CB product?

      There are many areas that, even when cleaned up tightly, or already tightly organized, still have errors; part of which fall on Clickbank heavily right now, because of their new implementation idea.
  • This is my account status:
    Text changed from "Moderate Risk" to ""


    Refund rate (Predicted): 14.65%
    Chargeback rate (Predicted): 0.14%
    • [2] replies
    • HA.. This is my account.. label as UNACCEPTABLE!?
      AccountRefund Rate(Predicted)14.64%
      AccountChargeback Rate(Predicted)4.11%

      I'm guessing if you only sold one product and gets a charge back, you'll be labeled 100%?? how about 2 products and 1 gets refunded? 50%?

      THE Clickbank risk management system is flawed as crap!
      • [1] reply
    • My account status:



      The truth is I do very little with CB as an affiliate and nothing as a vendor. I have been VERY selective in what I have promoted. I feel bad for those of you that have more of a vested interest in this new development. I hope it works out for you somehow.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Clickbank obviously changed their tier copy as people in green level felt offended for whatever reason by the wording when they happen to be perfectly fine.

    Best thing to come out of this thread is the idea for clickbank to reveal advanced affiliate statistics so we can see what ones might be over hyping our products. This will allow us to "warn/fire" them to start making more realistic clames... Can also allow us to reward our top affiliates easier.

    As an affiliate, I wonder how this applies if I just closed my account and started a fresh one with different details.

    I also am starting a company in india of 300+ employees ready to buy your competitors products and refund them shortly after!!!! As an added bonus I will also not allow them to do the same to you if you pay my over priced monthly fee. Let me know if you're interested in my services* ;D

    Every clickbank vendor should do the same as me over the next two months... Revisit my product and make it better anyway humanly possible. Ramp up customer service to make response times as short as possible, while adding free incentive products to customers to change their minds (like most phone/cable companies haha)

    Also to people on clickbank thinking by making their digital product physical they will lower refunds... ClickBanks terms of service state that you must make your product instantly available digitally as well. If they refund you cannot make it conditional that they send the physical product back.

    People hate change and I can only see clickbank refining and improving this system for years to come. Only way things might change is if some of ClickBanks more well known vendors publicly make a switch to a new or private network... This is one of the reasons we collect affiliate info before sending them to our tools page.


    Fine Print
    =======
    * I am in no way starting this kinda business... however tempting it may be
    • [ 2 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Banned


      Clickbank would be the last thing I would consider using as a payment processor for shipping physical products.

      So yes, you can require a buyer to return the product & also pay return shipping in exchange for a refund (happens everyday outside of CB).

      There's more to IM than CB.
  • Like a baws



    Edit: I have another account with another product, with a green "Good" rating. I can't really figure how this rating is determined.

    The blue very good has had a few more sales, so it must calculate both refunds and quantity of sales. Maybe it also takes time into consideration.
    • [1] reply
    • Banned

      No one else can either, zero refunds/chargebacks doesn't mean anything in the ratings.
  • Clickbank needs to set better filters. Not just let anything in then penalize for it.

    It's as simple as that really.
    • [1] reply
    • [DELETED]
    • This is SOOOO true. They supposedly review EVERY product that comes through, yet I often see them penalizing people after the fact, BECAUSE of the product that they approved to begin with.

      in the beginning too, for not properly filtering out poor quality products, or products that are not in line with what Clickbank perceives to be good market material in the first place.

      This reminds me of the EzineArticles crackdown, and how much bullshit was involved when they too, decided to implement the stupidest rules, and blame everyone else for their shortcomings with Google.

      EzineArticles ALSO, let all the crap in, and personally approved articles, and then came down on all of their authors hard, when they had troubles... even though it was EzineArticles who approved everything, allowed it, and made their rules such that it could happen...

      The new rules for Clickbank still do not fix the core problems that are causing them to have to put fees and tiers in place, to begin with.

      With all the time they spent making algorithms and other crap, and thinking about absurd charges they can hand down to Vendors and Affiliates, so they don't have to personally be penalized (although they already take percentages from us)... they couldn't come up with a solution that perhaps addressed why they even get penalized as a company in the first place?

      Maybe a solution that looked into what it is that they are allowing, and the standards upon which the products that are being let through themselves, are being upheld by?

      It's sincerely retarded, honestly, and Clickbank, though a very large company, and yes, they make a lot of money... certainly does not prove that they even know what they are doing, by having either of those factors being true, with the new implementation of their 'rules'.

      They need a core structure change and overhaul with how products are even let in, in the first place; they need a refund policy re-consideration as well for that entire funnel, and the gap between affiliates and vendors needs to also be narrowed.

      I know that it's normal for people to freak out when they change the rules to start penalizing, but Clickbank has not entirely made it fair for it's customers (Vendors and Affiliates), who are the ones that GAVE clickbank their status and money in the first place.

      By fair, I of course mean, levelling out the fields so that the new implementation at least makes sense, and addresses the real core concerns; and not just a band-aid for their financial burdens when they have to speak up to their banks and other people, because of their own shortcomings.

      Funny how they blame the little guys (apparently we must be, with this new system they have on the go), for things that they never properly enforced or took care of as a company either.

      Also, they still have not clarified what a good refund rate really is, and have not clarified what their "%" algorithm is either... it's rather confusing.

      It's beyond rude of them to penalize the Vendor for refunds that the affiliate is getting, because the two CAN be separate things; especially if the Vendors' account itself is in good standing, and has a refund rate of 5% and lower...

      Again, the gap between the Vendor and Affiliate is still enough, that penalizing Vendors for retarded affiliates each time, isn't fair either. Sure, Vendors are able to blacklist affiliates, but is that fair if the affiliate just had a bad campaign... or fair if the Vendor can only come to know about an affiliate, once they have already screwed up the status of the Vendors' reputation with CB?
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Banned
    [DELETED]
  • Walmart would be in the red!
  • Just god knocking on your door reminding people once again that nothing in this game is forever. Things change. It's not the first time and it won't be the last time. You can either sit here and cry about it or just adjust your plans and move on. I'll let you guess which option makes you the most money.

    Clickbank have been going down hill for a long time now -- it's no secret. Let them make their own mistakes. Had this type of thing happened years ago when there were no other alternatives, they needn't have worried. But nowadays there are a bunch of other networks people can use instead of Clickbank so if they screw around with people too much they will find themselves out of a job.

    IM is their bread and butter and is what built that company into what it is today. Without any IM products they wouldn't be half the company they are now. But that's for them to decide. If they choose to bite the hand that feeds them then they will end up starving.
    • [ 3 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Banned

      That's why I think they're waiting until Jan. 2nd 2013 (new tax year), I'm thinking they're expecting a loss on earnings, otherwise why wouldn't they start this in Nov./Dec. 2012?
  • Instead of going to all this trouble, I don't know why they didn't just remove IM/MMO/etc type products from the marketplace altogether. This is really what they're doing with this since their backend stats obviously show them that these types of marketplace categories will cease to exist after implementing this system.
    • [1] reply
    • Because they don't want to get rid of all the money/profit that certain MMO products are creating for them.

      I think this rule is more likely designed to get rid of a lot of the small time affiliates and vendors. I have a feeling Clickbank have realized the REAL money for them is in dealing with just a small number of the big product vendors who do the massive launches.

      Less customer service, less headaches and more control over things.
      • [1] reply
    • Banned
      [DELETED]
      • [1] reply
  • Yeah I had to laugh as this new feature of clickbank especially when I read this line:

    "ClickBank has developed sophisticated algorithms"


    I very much doubt that anything sophisticated goes on at clickbank.
  • Blue account holder here.

    Remember that ClickBank themselves need to maintain their own reputation. If they get too many people phoning up Visa and doing chargebacks, then they themselves will get thrown out of the schemes they're in.

    Although I guess any company that makes $$$$ from products claiming to allow to you grow taller or run your car on water might not have a good reputation anyway.
  • Hmmmm, I was just thinking about putting some products on clickbank. I think I'll reevaluate that.

    Thanks everyone for sharing what is happening with you.
    • [1] reply
    • Just been changed from Green (Good) to Blue (Very Good) - Feel like I'm at school again.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • [DELETED]
  • Don't think it would make THAT much of a difference really, the same people who ask for a refund for a $47 are the people who buy $1 products and STILL ask for a refund.

    I never quite understood that, if it was me, I really could care less if I purchased something for a dollar and didn't like it, I really could not be bothered to go through the refund process for a dollar.

    But with that being said, I think thats the reason for WSO being so cheap (in comparison). If people pay a few bucks for something (WSO are generally quite cheap) MOST of the time people just chalk it up as a loss and move on. Most people know this hence the low pricing of a WSO.
  • Just logged in to my CB account and here is the screenshot.

  • Congratz CB, another way for you to make a lot of money in the name of, Quality Control
  • I'm still trippin' a bit as to how they're slamming on all of it, but then with affiliates being hit just as hard, I don't know what to make of it. It's not like we can see a refund rate of the product unless we start promoting it and then realize the refunds and chargebacks that may come through. I just went again into CB to make sure I wasn't missing something but there are no stats for any of these items that show refund rates unless you've been promoting them, so especially for newer people to affiliate marketing such as myself who have been doing it for a few months versus those that are well seasoned at it, how would we know what to promote and not? And just because we buy the product and test it doesn't mean it won't have a high refund or chargeback rate.. I may like the product very well that I promote but others may not feel the same at all and then after we promote it and realize the chargebacks and refunds that start coming through, we're doomed. It could be so much as selling 10 of them in a month and getting 1 chargeback and that will more than likely put you in the red... so I guess if you've been doing affiliate marketing for a long time and have a large amount of commissions made as an affiliate for the products you promote, those of us that haven't been doing it long may be doomed. I have 26 sales for a few products and 1 chargeback and 1 refund total between the few products I've made commissions for (not related to IM niche at all) but I'm still flagged as Unacceptable. I'm sure it's because I don't have enough sales to reduce that refund / chargeback percentage down, which to me means, if you're newer to affiliate marketing, start to get a few sales and then get a chargeback or refund, you're doomed. That's how I'm understanding it anyway. I just recently got it to where I've been making a commission or two a week but due to the refund and chargeback, I need to get some more sales to reduce that percentage or I'm done.

    There has to be some better tweaking that they can do with this system before they just cause things to go belly up... but doesn't look like they'll be doing that regardless of how many emails they may receive as a result. Time'll tell though. Hoping they figure out something soon... glad I didn't join as a vendor now. wow!
  • Glad I'm out of the whole Clickbank thing for good!

    Still remember the days when the whole INTERNET was at clickbank promoting their stuff, horrible memories.
  • ClickBank Markup fee (Product Retail Price X 7.5%) + $1.00
    Vendor High Risk Transaction Fee - up to $4
    Affiliate or Joint Venture Partner Refund Fee - up to $3

    Sounds like Clickbank is trying to turn refunds into a profit stream.

    Netflix moment for Clickbank?
  • Here is something I got from one of my visitors who hasn't even made a purchase yet haha -

    How do you return the book with my money back guarantee? How do you cancel? Where do you go? I want to make sure I make the right decision.
    -----

    So it's not difficult to exploit the refund system. Sigh!
    • [1] reply
    • Banned

      Make the right decision for them.

      Delete.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • My account is also getting a wicked color and message.
    Surprising to find this out today...

    Anyway... there are some questions...

    1.Is this per product or per account?
    2.How often do they update this "color"? Mine says something about January 2nd, 2013. Will they update it then or is this monthly or how?
    3.Is this because we haven't made enough sales or because of high refund rates or what?

    Advice/experiences?
    • [1] reply
    • Banned

      Read this:
      Refunds and Chargebacks


      BTW, just because a person has a green account today doesn't mean anything, the color code changes daily.

      I'm sure it's:
      • [1] reply
  • I bet Paypal and other processors also has us "rated" for risk. They have algorithms that say - just one more refund or one more sale through the WF WSO and we're locking the account for review or whatever. They just don't publish your risk rating.

    It's also interesting that some are ditching Clickbank and calling them every name in the book when nothing has really happened and won't happen for a while (if it does at all) except they put a colored graphic in the account.

    Mark
  • I logged into my CB affiliate account and somehow I'm at the highest risk tier?!?!? Really? Nothing but clean sales in my account - absolutely insane! And so begins the death of Clickbank. Ugh...
    • [1] reply
    • That does not sound right.

      I assume you are looking at the Transactions Report and have the Refund and Chargeback display options set ON ?

      How far back have you looked ?

      .
  • I think the IM industry as a whole is one of few that offer refunds for digital products..

    I can only think of the following, but I'm pretty sure ALL businesses offering digital items DON'T offer refunds -

    iTunes purchases
    Xbox Live/PSN subscriptions, points
    Things like STEAM games, downloadable serials for games etc,
    In game purchases for things such as MMO's (world of warcraft etc)

    Pretty much anything you buy online that's digital doesn't come with a money back guarantee, so why do IM products?
    • [2] replies
    • Banned

      Maybe because you can demo the products you listed?
      • [1] reply
    • Josh - great point! There should absolutely be a greater level of protection for info sellers!
  • I've read through this entire thread and no one mentioned what would happen if your are deemed "unacceptable" after Jan. 1 2013. I'll tell you, this is the GREAT CLICKBANK CASH GRAB. Our accounts will be terminated and any moneys in them will be forfeited en masse. This number is obviously probably in the millions if not 10's of millions. This is Clickbank's new business model for 2013 and beyond. Their current business model has fallen off a cliff, so they are dusting themselves off and rolling out a new concept: how to profit off of refunds, chargebacks and account terminations. The writing was on the wall months ago. Nevertheless, I am preparing for Clickbank's armageddon Jan 2 2013 by swapping out all my clickbank affiliate links and sending them to my squeeze pages instead. Thank goodness Clickbank is not my bread and butter now.
    • [2] replies
    • Banned

      That's another reason why I pulled down all my sales pages/links that were pointing at the CB checkout pages. Something just doesn't feel right about Jan. 2 2013 (why would they wait for a new tax year?).

      I have 1 CB check that still needs to clear.

    • Well that will certainly bring on some good lawsuits... ClickBank cannot keep the money earned from your products that you legally own but they can increase the fees which in effect they certainly have.
      • [1] reply
  • This is quite similar to CDR (customer distribution requirement) that clickbank applied under paychecks.

    -------------------------------------------

    "Customer Distribution Requirement

    ClickBank will withhold payment of any account balance until the following criteria is met:

    Sales made with 5 or more different credit card numbers; and,
    Sales made with two different payment methods (either Visa, MasterCard, PayPal or European Direct Debit(ELV)). Note: PayPal purchases do not count toward the minimum 5 different credit card numbers.
    This requirement is in place to help prevent Affiliates from abusing the ClickBank Affiliate program by using their accounts for the sole purpose of fraudulently collecting rebates and/or discounts on their own purchases.

    Once you have met the Customer Distribution Requirement, your account will begin issuing payments normally, in accordance with our Accounting Policy, beginning on the next payment issuing date."
    ---------------------------------------

    How do we know Paypal or credit cards would be the choices of customers? To get our check, we have to wait for 5 credit card paying customers for the product they buy. This logic is similar to Color Code Risk Tier that we see now. Unbelievable!
  • They are giving us more headaches, which only adds to the Google Panda, Penguin-created worries...

    ClickBank seemed to be a good alternative, now many will look for "ClickBank alternatives".

    This harsh new ClickBank policy won't do much good to ClickBank either! If you're a new seller, instead of letting you develop, they punish you so harsh... does that help anyone? I don't think so...

    Yes, maybe they're full of little income-bringing accounts, but this whole thing won't be to their advantage.
    • [1] reply
    • yup that is what I was thinking, eventually clickbank will work out this is either a big help, or a major drama of mistakes.

      You see, clickabnk are no dummy, they are doing a test with this. Just to see. Then they will either keep it or leave it.
  • [DELETED]
  • Ooh, ooh, ooh, here's mine!

    "Good Your account is currently tiered as good.* If your account remains in this tier after January 2, 2013, it will not be subject to any additional vendor fees. It will be subject to chargeback fees your account is affiliated with."

    Who cares?
    • [1] reply
    • I like this move also. I don't do a lot with Clickbank anymore, because it is too much work weeding out the crap from the good products, and I can't be an expert in all topics. After January I may look into promoting more products again if they show this information in the marketplace.
  • Just imagine the amount of harm many of the Clickbank products
    did to the poor people through the internet. The whole internet is
    filled with fake reviews.

    Watch TV on PC
    3 Day Acne Cure
    Make Millions in a Few Days
    Download Movies and Music for Free

    Thousands of affiliates are filling the internet with fake reviews.

    Everybody has one "Great Excuse"
    Clickbank Offers 60 Days Moneyback Guarantee

    Think about this

    1) Human power required to to process hundred of refunds every day
    2) The bad impression created in the minds of people
    about Clickbank
    3) Many people don't know how to get a refund
    4) Credit card companies are fed up with charge back requests
    5) The Government may be looking into these problems

    Just a refund policy excuse is not enough

    Clickbank is also equally responsible. It took them years and a bunch of complaints to realise that fake promise of movie and music download is illegal

    Clickbank, Affiliates and Vendors are reaping the fruit of their Own Karmas.

    I don't know whether this new rule is a great rule but some change is necessary.

    Doing illegal and unethical things and justifying them is not good.

    Just my thoughts
    • [ 2 ] Thanks
  • I also believe that many vendors will be dropping their prices to try and improve their ratings. A lot of people disagree with me on this, but a lot of the products on Clickbank are way overpriced. Everyone wants to make as much money as they can, but sometimes it can backfire.
    I had purchased a product earlier this year, which allowed you to create posts automatically with fairly decent content (as long as you didn't try to create thousands of posts all at once). Everything was going great and many people were making a lot of money by putting adsense on their pages. But then people got greedy and decided to start backdating posts 7-10 years in the past and creating 10,000 or more posts on their site all at once to make the big money much quicker. Google caught on and many peoples adsense accounts were disabled or their sites were deindexed. I'm kind of glad this happened, because I decided to stick with the original plan and it is still working for me. The money comes in slower but it is still working for me. The forum on that site has gone dead because it stopped working for so many people.
    It's nice to see the big dollar checks, but the people spending their money have to be happy with what they are receiving for the cash they are spending.
  • i myself have started switching over to my own platform until something better comes around. being able to offer your products through your own platform cuts down on refunds since you are in charge of your own support and can help clients with any issues they have. with clickbank, people buying IM products know that they can just buy and refund almost immediately and get everything for free. i also add a members area so anyone that does get a refund, loses access to their members account.

    i actually just added a $50 CPA payout to my platform which ensures my affiliates will get paid for their efforts and wont have to worry about refunds, just like promoting through a CPA network.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • What happened to clickbank? They are already losing affiliates and vendors to clicksure and now they put these risk factors in. Looks like clickbank wants to close the door and retire
  • ClickBank has gone bipolar. They change my account status risk level every hour.

  • Banned
    SO...

    For someone like myself, who is going to sell multiple digital/physical products through ONE website...and would also like to implement an affiliate program...who should I go with besides Clickbank?
  • hey dayne, i would say you get a merchant account, and then hook it all up through 1shoppingcart. that is what i have done with my products. i havent had any issues with refunds or chargebacks since i switched.

    with 1shoppingcart, you can also setup pay per click, per sale, etc. so you can setup offers like a cpa offer. i have an offer setup as a $50 per $4.95 trial offer and the affiliate system tracks very well.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • Banned
      Yeah, I do love 1SC, I've used it in the past. But not really wanting to spend around $100 a month to use it until I KNOW for a fact my products sell really well.

      Is there another system that can be integrated with Paypal to create an affiliate program?
      • [1] reply
  • This is indeed bad news and clickbank is going, to be ditched by 1000s of vendors. It sucks that they do this to innocent vendors and in the end clickbank will become just like ebay-- ditched.
  • Not sure what this is about, I can see if someones product is having very high amounts of refunds, but it seems like the risk is generally more on the product owners side of things.

    -Brody
  • So to be clear... once an affiliate is 'terminated' then that is it? Lights out, banned IP and never again allowed to promote clickbank products ?

    Please tell me the above is not true.

    If it is then my entire business plan I was about to pursue to promote CB is a no go (the risk would simply be too high). Imagine an affiliate setting up a huge promotion drive to promote 100 CB products.. then for a month or two there is a period of high Chargebacks or refunds completely BEYOND that affiliates control. So then their status is near death and they get banned and all their work up to that point is wiped out by Clickbanks ban ? Unbelievable.

    This new rating system seems like it will be a massive death tax on the entire system. I am quite shocked actually they are taking such a high risk implementing this plan. It is a complete change in business model.

    A LOT of chargebacks occur when customers see CLCKBNK*com on their credit card statement and then immediately assume it must be a fraudelent charge and then just call their credit company and tell them to issue a chargeback!! I admit I do this as well whenever I see something strange looking on my credit card statement I immediately assume that I never purchased such an item when it looks so confusing what the heck it actually is.

    CLICKBANK should be MANDATING that vendors send very clear statements and communications with customers about how the charge will appear on their statements.

    What if an affiliate is promoting hundreds of CB products? and has multiple promotion venues... how on earth are the going to be able to improve their rating within a month or two, impossible...
  • Here's mine. Looks like they suddenly changed the "moderate risk" to "good". Perhaps to sound better. lol

    Your account is currently tiered as good.* If your account remains in this tier after January 2, 2013, it will not be subject to any additional vendor fees. It will be subject to chargeback fees your account is affiliated with.
    • [1] reply
    • Mine...



      But I'm moving my products to self-hosted system. We cannot fully trust and depend on CB.
  • so once the new rating system is established next year, is it safe to say that if you *only* promote products with A+ quality rating, then you as an affiliate will unlikely ever get in serious trouble ?
  • Not to bad mouth Clicksure...but...

    There was a product I was interested in reviewing for possible promotion that was sold thru Clicksure. Since I naturally wanted to review it first, I went thru the sales funnel and attempted to buy everything offered (if you're gonna review, ya gotta review ALL of it, right?).

    Anyway, this product had two upsells... while using my bank card, the first main sale went thru fine... the first upsell purchase went thru fine. But then, on that 3rd purchase (the 2nd upsell), my card was declined.

    Needless to say, that totally freaked me out! Turns out my bank locked my card down due to suspicious and possibly fraudulent activity to a suspicious over-seas merchant.

    Build your own conclusions on that.

    We can fuss and moan over Clickbank, but bottom line is, they are a solid and reputable company.

    Jennifer
    ~PotPieGirl
    • [2] replies
    • They are "solid and reputable", but they are handling this situation incorrectly in my opinion.

      They need a way to differentiate between the people stealing products (digital downloads) that they get to keep and use after the refund, and actual dissatisfied customers.

      I have been promoting the same product for 4 years, and it was only in the last year or so that refunds started getting out of hand.

      Do you think maybe because the economy was down that more people started saying "screw it", and asked for refunds just to save money?

      Click Bank seems to think every refund is an actual dissatisfied customer - yeah right!

      CB makes their money through affiliates, and now they are just turning their backs on the real issues and 'charging fees'...they should be charging the people who ask for refunds, and splitting the money with us.

      When someone can just get a refund (without returning the product) by saying they weren't satisfied, this creates a great opportunity for thieves.

      I am not 'fussing and moaning' I am asking for a way to differentiate between what is a real dissatisfied customer, and a crook.

      It seems as the middleman that would be a part of CB's job - just like Walmart hires security to protect the merchandise they sell.

      As of now - their refund policy/system sucks, and it seems like they are blaming the vendors and affiliates for their easy to manipulate refund system.

      I am not saying every product being sold on CB is good, and every affiliate/vendor is honest, but CB sure isn't taking the cyber-crooks who manipulate the refund system into account when they are rating accounts.
      • [ 2 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
    • No offence, but the fraud team of your bank is a bunch of mentally challenged people, who consider any merchant outside of the US a fraudulent merchant. Not sure if its funny or tragic, but its definitely retarded.
  • Clickbank itself is high risk, the amount of refunds are astronomical. This is like the pot calling the kettle black
    • [1] reply

    • I sincerely doubt that Clickbank itself has a lot of refund requests for the services it charges for - payment processing, affiliate management, etc.

      I would dare say that most, if not all, of the refunds, chargebacks, etc. are based on what they buy wholesale from vendors ("how to make big money on the internet in 3 hours" or "how to get six pack abs in 3 days" type ebooks) and sell at retail to consumers.

      Mark
      • [1] reply
  • I think its time to find a new place to sell my stuff. even if I am ranked as "good"
    • [1] reply
    • But where else can you get that many affiliates? It might be time to play ball...

      CB is only doing this to minimize their risk. Chargebacks can cripple a business, for all that CB does for you not having to deal with merchant accounts, charge backs, etc. I'd certainly say it's worth it.
  • Yellow Tier - Some risk issues, these should be identified and corrected.

    You can read more about it here
    Refunds and Chargebacks
  • Those fines are indeed pretty steep.

    I think one thing I'm going to do is get a physical product just to lower the refunds.

    At least when it's physical Clickbank won't just refund the product on a whim... to anyone who asks.

    We also use Clickdesk Customer Support System...

    Basically it integrates support / refund tickets with Zendesk.

    So if a refund request comes through, it's seen by our agents in Zendesk immediately and they can respond or even change the ticket to a tech support within Zendesk.

    For a while tickets we had we're being refunded automatically if they weren't answered or changed to tech support within 24 hours.

    Currently our main account is at a blue with a 3% refund rate.
  • I've tried to login, but I have not experienced what you informed.

    maybe it's just certain accounts that get notice
    • [1] reply
    • We should all bombard the powers that be at Clickbank with links to this thread, and let them come here and read for themselves, what the people who generate the income for them have to say about this totally flawed rating process.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Its been good for me...I hv refunds like close to 15% lol....overall its less than 5% but I got a lot of refunds for a new product that I started promoting last month. I m not promoting it nymore.. and yeah I dun promote money making products... just relationships
  • it's a freaking joke. Hey Clickbank! Greedy much?? How can you punish affiliates for vendor's high refund rates?
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [2] replies
    • Why would an affiliate keep promoting a product with a high refund rate?

      Surely it's the affiliates choice what they promote and they should promote quality products?
    • Banned
      For the last months Clickbank is freefalling in alexa rankings

      Clickbank.com Site Info
  • The new ClickBank system is flawed in my honest opinion. How can the affiliate control what the customer does after they purchase the product? Perhaps the product owner should lose "points" for not having created a product good enough to retain a client.
    • [1] reply
    • The argument that "affiliates have no control" only rings valid if those affiliates are blindly promoting products they thaven't purchased and used themselves.

      Again, affilaties do have full control over the products they select.
      • [2] replies
  • guys... dont bitch about these new policies here.

    EMAIL CLICKBANK with your concerns.

    Its an algorithm... and guess what? they are not perfect. I'm sure some accounts have shitty ratings that shouldnt.... algo isn't perfect.

    But all in all let THEM know whats up.... what your concerns are... why is your account at a certain level.... etc.

    If they dont hear from ya'll, they wont know anything is wrong. :-)
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • I don't think people are looking for perfection, rather something that just makes sense...
  • I am only an affiliate on CB and just checked. This goes into effect Jan 2, 2013. I had $2.00 affiliate chargeback fee and my account is Green or GOOD...
  • I got an "Excellent" rating

    woo hoooo

    what they should do, is reduce their unit fees for people with EXCELLENT

    They take too much money!
    • [1] reply
    • I have 3 accounts with ClickBank.

      1. Affiliate Account, has been used as a vendor account in the past. Will be again (I hope).

      Was Below Average, just updated (new ClickBank week?) to Good

      What happened in the last week? A few affiliate sales


      2. Vendor Account, may have made rare affiliate sales, but nearly all vendor

      Excellent - stayed Excellent - this is the one I use for ebookcompiler.com / coverfactory.com / scriptrocket.com/ dogrecall.com / bingocardprinter.com / wordsearchprinter.com (I have scripts that allows affiliates to promote any product on this account and still get commissions).

      What happened in the last week? Vendor sales


      3. Vendor Account + Affiliate

      Use for a low volume product currently, and some affiliate links

      Good - stayed Good

      What happened in the last week? Nothing





      The thing that slightly concerns me is account 1, and the change in its status. Yes it was in the right direction, and it could just be a coincidence or due to some other factors, but maybe it does look like even a handful of sales can affect your status. Can a handful of refunds or charge-backs?

      If so that would be worrying for anybody not doing big volumes...

      Here's an example, say there is 10% chance of a refund or charge-back on some random product that affiliates promote.

      Now a guy selling a large volume, and doing it with no special extra risk factors, is nearly always to be close to that 10% each week, the law of large numbers - Law of large numbers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia -- think of it this way, if you throw 100 dice, the chance of getting all 1's is remote.

      But a guy selling a small volume, say 2 sales per week, has a 1% chance (10% X 10%) of get 2 refunds/charge-backs in the week, even if he is completely average -- think of it this way, if you throw 2 dice, the chance of getting all's is not that unlikely. Now over 50 weeks in a year... (or 50 dice rolls)... there's a very good chance he's going to get a bad result sooner or later, and possibly fall foul of ClickBank, even if he does nothing wrong.
  • Now I'm too scared to promote clickbank products.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • I don't think that's the right mindset.

      Often times, money lies in something we are scared to do

      I used to be scared of this risk tier, but now not anymore.
      I'm still making money with Clickbank.

      My account was once "unacceptable", but then it changed to "good"
      then to "borderline", and now it's back to "Good" again because I
      just created a new CB account as my old username sucked

      The risk tier can always change. If now you're unacceptable,
      doesn't mean you're always unacceptable.
      • [1] reply
  • Guys this isn't that hard of a situation to understand: Stop slinging crap as if it is a valuable product. Sell something worthwhile, something that provides REAL value, something that a customer would think to themselves, "Hey, I'm real glad I purchased this." Do this and you will see almost no refunds.

    I sell a software on Clickbank and I am almost always BLUE or VIOLET. My secret? I don't sell crap, and I offer fantastic support to my customers. Do the same and you'll be fine.
  • Now, i'm too scared to promote clickbank products
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Well after having received my last payment 13 days late, I give Clickbank a score of "Unnacceptable". Especially when it reads on their homepage "We've paid our clients on time, every time, for over 14 years."
    • [ 2 ] Thanks
  • My one is green and initially good sales presented to lewis howes
  • The Risk Management tiers are back again (I think there are here to stay and probably went live on April 9).

    The "predicted" values are being displayed but I remember the countdown number from 100 down to 0 (when sales will be suspended) from the earlier preview. That's not there...

    So if anyone is in "Borderline" or "Unacceptable", they'll never know for sure if or when their account is going to be nuked.

    The element of surprise remains.
  • Banned
    For some reason (explained below but not understood by me) they won't show the stars on the products, which was the main (only?) good thing for affiliates out of this whole change..

    UPDATE
    Marketplace Star Rankings
    We’ve been working on a 5-star ranking system as a way to help our affiliates identify quality products to promote (i.e. products with acceptable refund and chargeback rates). Our initial in-marketplace tests went well and we received a lot of great feedback…so it’s clear that we’re on the right track. However, we believe that this ranking system can be even better and more useful with some further refinements. While these improvements andrefinements are in the works, the star rankings will not be displayed in the Marketplace. But they’ll be back in the coming months so stay tuned! Risk Tiers
    In our efforts to improve overall quality, we recently implemented the color-coded Risk Tiers to gauge account performance, as well as to provide feedback to our clients--so they can better manage their businesses. In order to achieve our quality objectives and incent quality improvements, we had originally thought that assessing additional fees associated with the Tiers would also be required. However, over the last few months of displaying the Risk Tiers, we’ve found that simply providing clients with this insight has been so effective that we are no longer planning to assess the revised fees as we have achieved our quality objectives across the platform. The Risk Tiers will still be displayed and they are still extremely important, as we will still be using them to identify quality problems and make business decisions moving forward.
  • Seems that the system has been created by a 13 years old boy.

    Is this ClickBank? Really?

    Hope they update it and make something more serious. The system can't fluctuate so fast from "I love you" to "I hate you" + as others say, they should also provide refund stats for products (among other things).

    I think they should retire it for a while and make serious group tests before showing this to their community.

    They're desperate for not being able to control refunds and chargebacks. But this is not the way guys.

    Start by eliminating some things like "dating" / "get ex back" books and other crap if you really want to clean the house.
    • [1] reply
    • Where is the clue to the gender?
      • [1] reply
Join the discussion

Next Topics on Trending Feed