OTO's, Are You A Marketer or a Wantrepreneur?

22 replies
I have been marketing online for a few years now and have successfully sold products both on and off the Warrior Forum. I have seen a lot of discussion over OTO's lately and have even seen a friend get trashed for offering an OTO in their funnel. I had another friend who posted the entire offer and state there was no OTO, just a visible downsell and someone mentioned it would be better if the price were lower.

My question to you is: Are You A Marketer or a Wantrepreneur?

I see so many people in various places who claim to be marketers, but really are wantrepreneurs.

What defines a marketer? In my mind, it is someone who creates phenomenal products which help people accomplish something. They create "funnels", which, yes, include upsells and downsells and other value adds

What defines a wantrepreneur? Someone who wants to be a marketer, wants to be rich, wants to have everything given to them wants, wants, wants...

Often the wantrepreneur complains about upsells, complains about dimesales, cannot wait a reasonable amount of time for a support ticket response, gets upset when they can't get a review copy etc.

I used to be a wantrepreneur. I could not understand why so many people were having the success I wanted, the success I deserved. It finally hit me one day last year, I was not thinking like a marketer, and I certainly was not acting like it.

I made a conscious and unconscious decision to change that and as soon as I did, I saw my results change dramatically. So I will ask you once again:

Are You A Marketer or a Wantrepreneur?

I know this may spark some heated debate, but I had to give my $.02.
#marketer #oto #wantrepreneur
  • Profile picture of the author himanuzo
    A wantrepreneur has dream to get rich from the internet but does not do anything.

    A marketer promote and sell something on the internet for the daily life.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Racine
      Originally Posted by himanuzo View Post

      A wantrepreneur has dream to get rich from the internet but does not do anything.

      A marketer promote and sell something on the internet for the daily life.
      I think you summed up my thoughts is 2 sentences.

      Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author David Braybrooke
      John, I think we all have different capabilities and marketing potential levels. Some people are just naturally more talented and driven than many others. Online success will be defined by different goals and achievement levels by different individuals. I have to admit that I am doing marketing largely to give me a daily focus and keep me active enough to stay out of hospital. Not planning on being a world-beater or top seller.

      I don't like the term 'Wantrepreneur'. I'm just happy to be involved in a world where I can connect with others, learn new skills and earn a modest income. If that makes me some type of wannabe then so be it!
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      • Profile picture of the author John Racine
        Originally Posted by David Braybrooke View Post

        John, I think we all have different capabilities and marketing potential levels. Some people are just naturally more talented and driven than many others. Online success will be defined by different goals and achievement levels by different individuals. I have to admit that I am doing marketing largely to give me a daily focus and keep me active enough to stay out of hospital. Not planning on being a world-beater or top seller.

        I don't like the term 'Wantrepreneur'. I'm just happy to be involved in a world where I can connect with others, learn new skills and earn a modest income. If that makes me some type of wannabe then so be it!
        My rant went a little askew from what I originally intended. I know for myself, when I changed my thinking, including the wantrepreneurism's (making up vocabulary here), I found more success.

        I find it most interesting how people view OTO's and funnels. I do agree with some it should be a "Special Offer" vs One time Offer unliess it really is an OTO. I have used Rapid Action Profits and have sold One Time Offer because that is what they were.

        No, I don't consider you a wantrepreneur. You know what you want and I support that.

        Thanks for the comments.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
    It's the funniest thing I have ever seen. Marketers complaining about being offered a OTO or an upsell.

    I can understand if the OTO is actually needed to make the product work as mentioned in the salespage sales copy. I would not be happy about that.

    But upsells, downsells, oto, etc... are a part of marketing offline and online.

    I was at burger king recently, and I started to get frustrated, as if the person did not understand my order, because they said would you like cheese on your burger. Then after going there a few times and having them do it, I realized it was an upsell. LOL! An extra .50 upsell for cheese. But I had not been paying attention before, so it irritated me, because I thought they did not hear me when I ordered.

    Anyway, upsells, downsells, oto, are all over the place.... online and offline, and people need to stop complaining about them. If you do not like them, don't buy whats offered.

    It's the marketers responsibility to ask and try sell another related product. And it's their best opportunity because its the best timing, when your in a mood to buy....
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  • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
    I agree with you. I do not post WSO's but when I purchase them I have no problem with dimesales and OTO's If I don't want the OTO-1 or OTO-2 etc I just click through. Sometimes I see they are a great deal and I get one. Either way I know it is just part of the process. If sellers quit making enough money in their funnels the prices will go up for the original WSO and we all lose. Do some members think they are going to shame people into not using dimesales or offering OTO's? Maybe they just need to try and find these products somewhere else.

    I have been getting tired of the whiners about OTO's and those that demand to know what they are and how much they cost. What difference does it make? You either want the original WSO or you don't. If you buy the WSO you will find out about any OTO's. If you don't want to buy the WSO then you won't get a chance at the OTO's anyway.

    As long as the OTO is not necessary to complete the WSO or to make it work properly I think a WSO creator can design their funnel however they choose. I personally have never had a Warrior trick me so I had to buy a OTO.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
      Originally Posted by Janice Sperry View Post

      I agree with you. I do not post WSO's but when I purchase them I have no problem with dimesales and OTO's If I don't want the OTO-1 or OTO-2 etc I just click through. Sometimes I see they are a great deal and I get one. Either way I know it is just part of the process. If sellers quit making enough money in their funnels the prices will go up for the original WSO and we all lose. Do some members think they are going to shame people into not using dimesales or offering OTO's? Maybe they just need to try and find these products somewhere else.

      I have been getting tired of the whiners about OTO's and those that demand to know what they are and how much they cost. What difference does it make? You either want the original WSO or you don't. If you buy the WSO you will find out about any OTO's. If you don't want to buy the WSO then you won't get a chance at the OTO's anyway.

      As long as the OTO is not necessary to complete the WSO or to make it work properly I think a WSO creator can design their funnel however they choose. I personally have never had a Warrior trick me so I had to buy a OTO.
      I used to play pool in a bar where if any pool ball got knocked off the table, you had to put a dollar in the juke box, no joke, the music never stopped playing.

      We need to have a rule that when someone complains about OTO and upsells in the WSO thread, they need to be fined $1.00 and then this money goes into a private WSO fund. When it gets big enough we can all have a party...
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      • Profile picture of the author John Racine
        Originally Posted by Steve Wells View Post

        I used to play pool in a bar where if any pool ball got knocked off the table, you had to put a dollar in the juke box, no joke, the music never stopped playing.

        We need to have a rule that when someone complains about OTO and upsells in the WSO thread, they need to be fined $1.00 and then this money goes into a private WSO fund. When it gets big enough we can all have a party...
        Maybe the reinstatement of the $10 membership will help.....
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      • Profile picture of the author edpudol1973
        Originally Posted by Steve Wells View Post

        We need to have a rule that when someone complains about OTO and upsells in the WSO thread, they need to be fined $1.00 and then this money goes into a private WSO fund. When it gets big enough we can all have a party...
        I wish I could come to the party .

        OTO, upsells, downsells, marketers used them to earn more, and those people who keep complaining don't know how to do it
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  • Profile picture of the author wellvested
    I agree with you on this subject matter. There are truly a lot of wantabees out there. They have forgotten that we are in the business to help others and to make a difference in the World we live in. I wish that people would just stop complaining and just take action.
    This is just my 2 cents also. smile
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  • Profile picture of the author YasirYar
    I am a 100% marketer. I know how downsells and upsells work, and if only you'd be kind enough to ask for it, you'll surely get it! Just be patient.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin McNally
    I have no problem with an OTO and almost expect them when I buy anything now. I see many people asking if there is a OTO before ordering a WSO and that is the wrong mindest I think as nobody forces you to buy.

    However, adding five or six OTO's before you even get to the main product you bought is taking it too far and although your EPC may work out higher due to your OTO's you will lose respect from customers who may avoid your next offer if they know there are too many loops to go through.

    There is nothing wrong with presenting offers of course, reminds me of a while back when I sold a report in the WSO section and one guy complained there were affiliate links in the pdf, I told him to look at the main forum heading " Where we talk about making money " so he is not surprised in the future !

    But joking aside, some guys do take it too far with pages you can't escape from until a video has been displayed for a minute etc.... Forcing customers to look at your offer is almost acceptable when you have a squeeze page but once the customer hass paid they should be treated differently.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
    OTOs have a bad rap in this industry largely because so many are BAD OTOs.

    If I sell you flat pack furniture and make you an offer of someone to come assemble it = Good OTO

    If I sell you flat pack furniture and then tell you that you can't assemble it without the special tool that costs extra = Bad OTO

    Add value to your prospects' lives at every step of your sales process and you can't go wrong.
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    • Profile picture of the author kevinfar
      Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher View Post

      OTOs have a bad rap in this industry largely because so many are BAD OTOs.

      If I sell you flat pack furniture and make you an offer of someone to come assemble it = Good OTO

      If I sell you flat pack furniture and then tell you that you can't assemble it without the special tool that costs extra = Bad OTO

      Add value to your prospects' lives at every step of your sales process and you can't go wrong.
      I like that example, which unfortunately is something which a lot of marketers seem to be doing. First lesson as always is to add value..
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    • Profile picture of the author John Racine
      Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher View Post

      OTOs have a bad rap in this industry largely because so many are BAD OTOs.

      If I sell you flat pack furniture and make you an offer of someone to come assemble it = Good OTO

      If I sell you flat pack furniture and then tell you that you can't assemble it without the special tool that costs extra = Bad OTO

      Add value to your prospects' lives at every step of your sales process and you can't go wrong.
      Funny you mention furniture, I can completely relate, I used to be in that business and is an AWESOME example of the problems with OTO's if they don't compliment each other.

      Thanks Andy.
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  • Profile picture of the author gcbmark20
    Hi John!

    You have well and truly hit the nail on the head my friend.

    Everything changes when you decide to stop buying every new product launch and start planning to build your own email list, creating products and learning how to market those products and services to your list of subscribers.

    These kind of posts will help people not hinder their progress!

    Well done and have a fantastic day!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author russellprisco
    Yo yo yo... you a gagnsta or a wanksta?

    lol

    I think everyone is in agreement that it's super shady to do the whole, you need to purchase this special tool to put together your furniture after you've sold them the furniture.

    And I don't think it's bad for people to want to know if there's an upsell, how many there are and how much they cost, but when it comes to being (insert word that rhymes with itchy here...) about the fact that there is one, that's just silly.

    It's like putting a snake and a mouse in the same cage and then being angry that the snake ate the mouse.

    This is a marketing forum. It's so silly to think that marketers would STOP being marketers IN a marketing forum.

    I think that the people complaining about there being funnels are the ones that should be paying attention to the funnels so they can learn from them.

    Here's the way I see it. Let's get real. Some of the WSO's on here are complete garbage. And yet at the same time, some of the WSO's on here are complete GOLD.

    For those that are garbage, people will find out based on reviews from other warriors, and those sellers will burn their reputation in here. For those that are gold though, a lot of the times the prices that we pay for them are so ridiculously low, even after purchasing all the upsells.

    The reason that sellers use a funnel (other than the fact that they work) is because most of us warriors have been spoiled by these bargain basement prices, and they know that their conversions on their product would be much much lower resulting in less sales by packaging everything together trying to sell it for a higher price.

    So instead, they simply break it down into chunks, and I see no problem with that so long as the upsells are actually complimentary and not required for the main product to do it's job. People should be thanking sellers for breaking it up, because I know there would be a bunch of people that couldn't or wouldn't buy it at the lump sum price, so that let's everyone have a chance at being able to purchase.

    The other scenario is that the seller comes up with a product that they could sell on the warrior forum for $x.xx amount of money, and truly is a stand alone product that people would be happy to purchase... And THEN they think to themselves, "what other product could I add/create as an upsell to add EVEN MORE value than I've delivered in the initial offer?". If it weren't for the upsell process, there would be a lot less kick butt products to compliment the offer that you just purchased that probably wouldn't have been created otherwise.

    I think the real challenge for most of the people griping about it is that they just don't have the money to be able to purchase all the upsells that they really DO want to purchase, so they feel jaded.

    Rusell =P
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    • Profile picture of the author John Racine
      Originally Posted by russellprisco View Post

      Yo yo yo... you a gagnsta or a wanksta?

      lol

      I think everyone is in agreement that it's super shady to do the whole, you need to purchase this special tool to put together your furniture after you've sold them the furniture.

      And I don't think it's bad for people to want to know if there's an upsell, how many there are and how much they cost, but when it comes to being (insert word that rhymes with itchy here...) about the fact that there is one, that's just silly.

      It's like putting a snake and a mouse in the same cage and then being angry that the snake ate the mouse.

      This is a marketing forum. It's so silly to think that marketers would STOP being marketers IN a marketing forum.

      I think that the people complaining about there being funnels are the ones that should be paying attention to the funnels so they can learn from them.

      Here's the way I see it. Let's get real. Some of the WSO's on here are complete garbage. And yet at the same time, some of the WSO's on here are complete GOLD.

      For those that are garbage, people will find out based on reviews from other warriors, and those sellers will burn their reputation in here. For those that are gold though, a lot of the times the prices that we pay for them are so ridiculously low, even after purchasing all the upsells.

      The reason that sellers use a funnel (other than the fact that they work) is because most of us warriors have been spoiled by these bargain basement prices, and they know that their conversions on their product would be much much lower resulting in less sales by packaging everything together trying to sell it for a higher price.

      So instead, they simply break it down into chunks, and I see no problem with that so long as the upsells are actually complimentary and not required for the main product to do it's job. People should be thanking sellers for breaking it up, because I know there would be a bunch of people that couldn't or wouldn't buy it at the lump sum price, so that let's everyone have a chance at being able to purchase.

      The other scenario is that the seller comes up with a product that they could sell on the warrior forum for .xx amount of money, and truly is a stand alone product that people would be happy to purchase... And THEN they think to themselves, "what other product could I add/create as an upsell to add EVEN MORE value than I've delivered in the initial offer?". If it weren't for the upsell process, there would be a lot less kick butt products to compliment the offer that you just purchased that probably wouldn't have been created otherwise.

      I think the real challenge for most of the people griping about it is that they just don't have the money to be able to purchase all the upsells that they really DO want to purchase, so they feel jaded.

      Rusell =P
      Russell,

      I think you absolutely hit the nail on the head when you said the OTO has to be complimentary and not required. I never do that on mine and I guess I took for granted many vendors here do not.

      Great stuff! THANKS.
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  • Profile picture of the author RogueOne
    As marketers we are jaded.

    If you didn't have a clue what a OTO or sales funnel is, then the reason you would have to get upset is if the whole experience didn't flow.

    I was through a funnel recently that is probably the best I've ever seen. It was seamless, and I didn't feel the least bit annoyed. The thing was like four levels.

    I also went through a WSO funnel two days ago that was horrible. It was like wading through garbage, and was quite annoying.

    It's all part of the game and if you're not promoting to the MMO market, most people won't have a clue. Some people just like to whine and really don't care about what.

    It's your mindset, plain and simple.

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-you-know.html

    There used to be a $5 fine for whining.
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  • Profile picture of the author geolocal
    Good post John, sums it up quite nicely. From urbandictionary.com:

    Wantrepreneur 13 up, 2 down
    n: someone who thinks about being an entrepreneur or starting a business but never gets started.
    Bill is such a Wantrepreneur. Always talking about starting a business, but never getting there.

    Originally Posted by John Racine View Post

    My question to you is: Are You A Marketer or a Wantrepreneur?

    I see so many people in various places who claim to be marketers, but really are wantrepreneurs.

    What defines a marketer? In my mind, it is someone who creates phenomenal products which help people accomplish something. They create "funnels", which, yes, include upsells and downsells and other value adds

    What defines a wantrepreneur? Someone who wants to be a marketer, wants to be rich, wants to have everything given to them wants, wants, wants...

    Often the wantrepreneur complains about upsells, complains about dimesales, cannot wait a reasonable amount of time for a support ticket response, gets upset when they can't get a review copy etc.

    I used to be a wantrepreneur. I could not understand why so many people were having the success I wanted, the success I deserved. It finally hit me one day last year, I was not thinking like a marketer, and I certainly was not acting like it.

    I made a conscious and unconscious decision to change that and as soon as I did, I saw my results change dramatically. So I will ask you once again:

    Are You A Marketer or a Wantrepreneur?

    I know this may spark some heated debate, but I had to give my $.02.
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  • Profile picture of the author BKKBound
    Excellent post John and I think the term wantrepreneur will stick. I know a bunch of them and there are actually a few serial ones (offline) that I refuse to deal with anymore because they are buying the dream not a business system and I refuse to be a part of that addiction.
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  • Profile picture of the author paul nicholls
    You are right john

    OTO`s do work but at the same time must not be abused or used how andy describers above
    as the OTO being a vital part of the product in order for it to work

    If i come across a OTO and i am not interested all you have to do is click the "no thanks link"

    Paul
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