Your grammar sucks. Don't cuss. Blah blah blah.

39 replies
It seems every week or two the topics of grammar, spelling and cursing comes up. These threads are always popular with, for the most part, the same people cheering with agreement or posting a counter argument.

Yet, once the smoke clears... nothing is settled. All that's known is peoples opinions. Not what sells better.

Years ago, the very wise(ass? ) Paul Myers ended a post with;

"You are not your market."

That one sentence means more than most, if not all, of the opinions posted in those threads.

Garrie

P.S.

Yes. I post my opinion frequently and even act on it. It takes a while to teach on old dog new tricks.
#blah #cuss #grammar #sucks
  • Profile picture of the author Indecision
    Not entirely sure if I understand the point of this thread...
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    • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
      Originally Posted by Indecision View Post

      Not entirely sure if I understand the point of this thread...
      That our opinions don't matter. That we need to test.

      The quote says that.

      -g
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      • Profile picture of the author Indecision
        Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

        That our opinions don't matter. That we need to test.

        The quote says that.

        -g
        OK, I think your opinion matters a great deal when you are putting your name and reputation to something...

        as for that "you are not your market" quote

        how do you know what you are selling if it isn't something you would be interested in buying? Sounds like a prime excuse for selling shit you know nothing about
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        • Grammar should be a non-issue. If you write your copy ungrammatically, anyone who reads it will think you're ignorant.

          So unless ignorance is the effect you're aiming for, use correct grammar. Enough said, I think.
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  • Profile picture of the author emon878
    Thats is some Grade A verbal diarrhea!

    Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

    It seems every week or two the topics of grammar, spelling and cursing comes up. These threads are always popular with, for the most part, the same people cheering with agreement or posting a counter argument.

    Yet, once the smoke clears... nothing is settled. All that's known is peoples opinions. Not what sells better.

    Years ago, the very wise(ass? ) Paul Myers ended a post with;

    "You are not your market."

    That one sentence means more than most, if not all, of the opinions posted in those threads.

    Garrie

    P.S.

    Yes. I post my opinion frequently and even act on it. It takes a while to teach on old dog new tricks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
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  • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
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    • Profile picture of the author Indecision
      Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

      That our opinions don't matter. That we need to test.

      The quote says that.

      -g
      Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post

      OK, I thought that my previous post would explain it but I can see that I have to dumb it down to simpler terms.

      You need to give your market what it wants, not what you think that it wants. If your market is a bunch of hippies, then hippie up your communications with them. If your market is teenagers then speak to them like one of the guys.

      So in other words don't worry about cussing if your market is not offended by it. of course if you're marketing to senior citizens then you may want to stay away from using profanity, and speak about what relates to them.
      Thanks Einstein

      I think we all know that you target your marketing at your target market.

      My point still stands, the original post was just stupid and made no real point other than to suck up to a comment made by a Mod on this website.
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      • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
        Originally Posted by Indecision View Post

        I think we all know that you target your marketing at your target market.
        Actually, you would be surprised at the amount of people who market based on themselves.
        My point still stands, the original post was just stupid and made no real point other than to suck up to a comment made by a Mod on this website.
        That's funny.

        If you knew anything about me you would know I don't suck up.

        Take something from it or don't. It doesn't matter to me either way.

        -g
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      • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
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        • Profile picture of the author Indecision
          Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post

          Read the thread title Einstein. Gerry is referring to surge in threads of the following type. "Your grammar sucks. Don't cuss. Blah blah blah."

          Then you reply.


          Gerry Answers you saying that,


          Which is the point of the thread.
          I can see why you guys resorted to IM.
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          • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              Joseph,
              Block head!!!!
              How is that any more helpful than the quote to which you were replying?


              Paul
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              • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
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                • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
                  Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post

                  I popped a couple of M&M'S and I'm OK now.
                  Quick, pass them around! LOL. I remember thinking when reading your posts that this didn't sound like you.
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                • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                  Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post


                  I popped a couple of M&M'S and I'm OK now.
                  I'm glad they worked for you. It just proves you weren't too far gone.

                  But if you feel it coming on stronger next time, try a Snickers.

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                  • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
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                    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                      Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post

                      I love that commercial! Thanks for brightening up my evening.
                      Oh good! It worked then.

                      Oh, and you are most welcome, that's what friends are for.

                      Terra
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                      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                        Originally Posted by Kevin Thomas View Post

                        Just be yourself

                        If you cuss you cuss, if you dont cuss..... dont. Its that simple

                        The more of a front you put up the easier it is to see through. Just be authentic
                        Some folks should never entirely be themselves in front of potential customers -- not if they hope to make sales.

                        One can put their "best foot foward" so to speak, without being disingenuous.

                        Originally Posted by onSubie View Post

                        Maybe there should be a "rant" forum.
                        ...and once someone enters, maybe we shouldn't let them back out for a good, long while!
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                        • Profile picture of the author satrap
                          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                          Joseph,How is that any more helpful than the quote to which you were replying?


                          Paul
                          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                          [splorf!]

                          Wow. That was actually funny enough to laugh over.

                          First off, Garrie and I have disagreed - strongly - often enough that no-one who's familiar with our conversations would ever accuse him of sucking up to me. Or anyone else, for that matter. It's not his style.

                          As for me falling for it when it happens... Not likely. I don't believe my own press, good or bad. Not to mention that adding the (ass) to wise is hardly the usual tone used in insincere ingratiation.

                          The fact that you didn't see the point in the OP doesn't mean there wasn't one. Simply that the way it was expressed didn't make sense to you. Possibly because you hadn't seen the current thread about swearing in emails and ad copy.


                          Paul
                          You know, I have heard a lot about you, both good and bad, but nothing compares to what I just witness from you. I just love the way you carry yourself Paul.

                          Please people, dont start to accuse me of ass kissing here. But really, look at how most of you guys are talking back and forth to each other, and how he is responding.

                          Paul, I just realized why you are a moderator here. I really wish our politicians could learn from you how to talk to each other.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Kevin Thomas
                          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                          Some folks should never entirely be themselves in front of potential customers -- not if they hope to make sales.

                          One can put their "best foot foward" so to speak, without being disingenuous.




                          ...and once someone enters, maybe we shouldn't let them back out for a good, long while!
                          If you cant be yourself in front of your customers then idk what to tell you man...

                          This is also something (one of many things) that irk me about the 'IM World' but that is a different topic for a different thread
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                          • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
                            Originally Posted by Kevin Thomas View Post

                            If you cant be yourself in front of your customers then idk what to tell you man...

                            This is also something (one of many things) that irk me about the 'IM World' but that is a different topic for a different thread
                            Kevin,

                            I think Dennis is making a valid point.

                            We all have filters help us decide who we are when confronted by different people/situations. We all have many different personas.

                            When you are with your wife/partner are you the same person as when you are out for a night with the boys? Do you swear more in the latter situation?

                            We are not talking about lying about ourselves - we are, as Dennis so aptly phrases it, "putting our best foot forward".

                            Marketing in one form or another pervades our whole life. When we tart ourselves up for a date it's a kind of marketing/putting your best foot forward.

                            Are we deceiving people by wearing a suit/perfume/makeup? No, we are very conscious of the competition out there and packaging ourselves to show people (and ourselves) our good public side because we want to convince them to "buy" us.

                            BTW, I'm sure when Paul Myers dons his biker jacket and goes out to a bar to play pool he can cuss with the best of them .

                            However, his status here as a moderator dictates a more "civilized", family-friendly persona.

                            Martin
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                          • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                            Originally Posted by Kevin Thomas View Post

                            If you cant be yourself in front of your customers then idk what to tell you man...

                            This is also something (one of many things) that irk me about the 'IM World' but that is a different topic for a different thread
                            Apparently you missed the humor in my remark.

                            As long as you want to take my comment completely seriously, Martin nailed it.

                            Be yourself is one of those "feel good" mantras that doesn't take a person's personality, character traits, bad habits, and many other factors into account.

                            You've lived a very sheltered life if you've never met anyone who should temper their personality in order to make sales. Some people's personalities don't lend themselves well to sales.

                            Be yourself when choosing a spouse, be yourself when choosing your friends, but put your best foot forward to maximize sales -- and that's especially true for people who have more difficulty than most in getting along with people. There's a reason for that, and the fault usually lies with the person who is the common denominator.
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            • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
              Originally Posted by emon878 View Post

              Thats is some Grade A verbal diarrhea!
              Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post

              I guess you need more then a 5th grade education to figure it out!
              Originally Posted by Indecision View Post

              Sounds like a prime excuse for selling shit you know nothing about
              Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post

              OK, I thought that my previous post would explain it but I can see that I have to dumb it down to simpler terms.
              Originally Posted by Indecision View Post

              Thanks Einstein

              My point still stands, the original post was just stupid and made no real point other than to suck up to a comment made by a Mod on this website.
              Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post

              Read the thread title Einstein.
              Originally Posted by Indecision View Post

              I can see why you guys resorted to IM.
              Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post

              Block head!!!!
              Why is there so much nastiness on the forum lately? Wow.
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              • Profile picture of the author ShaneGorry
                Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

                Why is there so much nastiness on the forum lately? Wow.
                Must be a new marketing strategy that I've not yet heard of.
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              • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
                Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

                Why is there so much nastiness on the forum lately? Wow.
                I blame Bush.

                -g
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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  Garrie,
                  I blame Bush.
                  Ummm... Considering it started during the Clinton Presidency (which is when the forum was founded), that's unlikely to be an easy sell.

                  I blame too big a focus on online activities. If you actually have a social life, or at least discuss things offline with people who disagree with you, getting snarked on a forum is a lot less of an issue.


                  Paul
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                • Profile picture of the author fin
                  Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

                  I blame Bush.
                  Or lack thereof.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    I know a guy who made millions and he cursed all through his sales letter very often. But his niche knew him, knew his personality, knew how good his material was, and DIDN'T CARE if he cursed or not.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      My point still stands, the original post was just stupid and made no real point other than to suck up to a comment made by a Mod on this website.
      [splorf!]

      Wow. That was actually funny enough to laugh over.

      First off, Garrie and I have disagreed - strongly - often enough that no-one who's familiar with our conversations would ever accuse him of sucking up to me. Or anyone else, for that matter. It's not his style.

      As for me falling for it when it happens... Not likely. I don't believe my own press, good or bad. Not to mention that adding the (ass) to wise is hardly the usual tone used in insincere ingratiation.

      The fact that you didn't see the point in the OP doesn't mean there wasn't one. Simply that the way it was expressed didn't make sense to you. Possibly because you hadn't seen the current thread about swearing in emails and ad copy.


      Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author jeffreydale
      Originally Posted by Randall Magwood View Post

      I know a guy who made millions and he cursed all through his sales letter very often. But his niche knew him, knew his personality, knew how good his material was, and DIDN'T CARE if he cursed or not.
      Who is this guy? He sounds like my hero. I don't wanna put on a fake persona.

      -JD
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      • Profile picture of the author MP80
        Your grammar sucks.
        Wow.. even though my grammar is no longer with us, that is still not a very nice thing to say.

        She was actually a very nice lady.
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    The opinions of most people don't matter. If you're unknown, or even a little known in some areas like IM.

    But we all know opinions of some do matter. They move world markets in some cases. Can change the fortunes of entertainment media, books, etc.

    Just depends on who you are and how many people listen to your opinion and take it to heart. An educated opinion or one based on knowledge and experience is still an opinion.

    And that's not just an opinion...
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Thomas
    Just be yourself

    If you cuss you cuss, if you dont cuss..... dont. Its that simple

    The more of a front you put up the easier it is to see through. Just be authentic
    Signature
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    Dont go into IM niche just because...Go into niches that you yourself love and are passionate about and IM to them

    :)
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    Its funny how we are all for free speech as long as you don't say anything I find offensive. Just like the thread earlier today, the OP didn't like profanity so he thought it should be frowned upon by most others.

    I often wonder how these people get into marketing because that sort of logic makes it tough to get a good understanding of your customers when you can't see the world any other way than through your own paradigm.

    As to all the snarkiness on WF these days. I find that a good stiff margarita (sometimes a little too early) and a soft woman help me deal with all the drama this place creates. ALthough admittedly, i don't shy away from a good solid debate about involving most any topic.
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  • Profile picture of the author Josh Monroe
    I take it no one remembers the Rich Jerk?
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
    Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

    It seems every week or two the topics of grammar, spelling and cursing comes up. These threads are always popular with, for the most part, the same people cheering with agreement or posting a counter argument.

    Yet, once the smoke clears... nothing is settled. All that's known is peoples opinions. Not what sells better.

    Years ago, the very wise(ass? ) Paul Myers ended a post with;

    "You are not your market."

    That one sentence means more than most, if not all, of the opinions posted in those threads.

    Garrie

    P.S.

    Yes. I post my opinion frequently and even act on it. It takes a while to teach on old dog new tricks.
    Ohhh ohhh .. you said ass!
    Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Troy,
      Ohhh ohhh .. you said ass!
      Yeah, but he was talking about me, so it wasn't entirely out of place.


      Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Ooooh, I want to play. :p

      Let's see....

      Okay, while we are all discussing other people's posts and questioning why they make them, why is it that people keep starting threads about other people's threads? :confused:

      Sorry, that's all the snark I got. Well, tonight anyway.

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author PCH
        A comment from a mentor of mine from offline days was ...

        "The customers perception is the reality"

        In other words, what they think ..... IS !

        There's no point wishing otherwise. They think you suck... you suck. And you have to address that point, or continue to suck in their eyes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Pickstone
    So true, be authentic, be yourself!!
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  • Profile picture of the author onSubie
    Maybe there should be a "rant" forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jesse L
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  • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
    Good grammar and PG language are very important if you want your site to come off as professional. That being said, there are always going to be exceptions to the rule.
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