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Unread 30th Mar 2020, 07:54 PM   #501
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Re: Coronavirus? Not worthy of a mention here???
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In Ohio (my state) a company has begun cleaning/sanitizing the masks (the ones that are most useful to doctors) and are setting up additional 'cleaning stations as quickly as possible. With their method one of the masks can be safely used 20 times before disposal.


Other companies are working on lighter weight and less expensive ventilators...a mattress company is making cloth masks out of hundreds of hards ot mattress 'ticking' which a tightly woven fabric. The inmate in prisons here are making hospital gowns.


One of the problems with stockpiles is masks, etc degrade after a few months. Could be we need to go back to maskcs and gowns that can be sterilized and re-used rather than try to start producing millions of them within a couple weeks time. it's something we need to address - AFTER this crisis is over.



I'm impressed with how some businesses are responding - and some of the solutions they're coming up with are amazing.

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Unread 30th Mar 2020, 11:20 PM   #502
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Originally Posted by myob View Post

No one could have known in advance how far the virus had infected the population.
Bill Gates laid it out pretty well 4 years ago. The most recent Computer Model that was delivered to whoever in the Federal Govt in Oct that showed the same type of infection coming from South America pretty much laid out the same scenario.

The issue is they did know. BUT I would suggest its all fine and dandy for the Feds to know, but in a FREE MARKET... it needs to trickle to industry, and I don't think it ever has.

What I found interesting watching the CNN interview with Bill Gates the other night was the interaction with you ( Bill ) told them this would happen.. and Bill plays the yeah Im right role well... BUT 10 to 40 Billion dollars that Bill and his foundation is paying now to streamline the whole vaccine process to a year or less? Maybe that should have started 4 years ago? Even the guy that predicted it.. fell asleep on acting.

Lets use Toilet paper as an example... demand has reached past production and reserves. One thinks.. Oh just increase production right? As the story goes... They operate at full capacity 24 hours a day 7 days a week 52 weeks a year. They CANT just make more. They might be able to get more efficient somehow.. but not enough to probably increase production by as little as 10%.

The same holds true with the production of many many many items. There is no, Oh we need more, and having the ability to produce it.

Maybe.. just Maybe some of these industries will see the need to stop working 24 hours a day and maybe increase the amount of machines so they are working 16's ( to hold current levels ) so when needed they can instantly increase production 33%? THIS kind of thinking is the solution for later situations. THIS is what really needs to be looked at as being the issue.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. Not enough testing, that is the Govt fault. Not enough supplies to meet demand.. and that falls flat on the laps of privatized and publicly traded industry - On both the supply and demand side of the equation.

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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 06:18 AM   #503
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savidge .

i know its a bit to complex for here ..but the toilet paper factory produces differnt types of toilet papper on the same machines ..so they produce one lot then another .. and the supplies going into the plant are ordered months ahaead of time and come from different parts of the world ..

take the ventilators ..gm/ge can work together to manufacture them.. but they both source parts from around the world .. now with so much shut down .. those part manufacture are probably able to ramp up the production of the needed parts ..

take the little machine that does the test in 5 minutes ..thta need to be put into production. but the part can probably be sourced rather easily.. and because it did not have to go through the long and expensive fda approval process .. the until might not be that expensive to produce for the testing sights ..

the world wide supply chain at work..even with automated production.. done in the USA the worldwide supply chain for many parts will be needed ..just don't have to depend on china
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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 07:05 AM   #504
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Re: Coronavirus? Not worthy of a mention here???
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Promising work is being done here...

https://www.ansto.gov.au/research/fa...otron/overview

Or markers that could lead to a vaccine are being imaged, eventhough SARS family type viruses, tend to behave in a similar fashion over time.


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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 08:13 AM   #505
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Originally Posted by myob View Post

No one could have known in advance how far the virus had infected the population. Even now despite all the warnings from officials for "social distancing", asymptomatic people continue to crowd together, spreading the virus exponentially.

But we are now seeing the most massive war-time diversion of resources, transformation of our industrial capacity, and all-out mobilization to defeat this virus since the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor and 9-11.

We certainly weren't prepared for those either.

Each and everyone of us now has an essential role to play in the greatest war of our generation.
what is really different about this .. we where fighting for our way of life in the past wars ..from the revolutionary war to others ..even if our way of life changed over time ..over generation .. then in the last 40 years almost every decade has brought with it changes to our daily life ..

this time the entire world is changing the way it does things at the same time .. to not put 10 percent of the population of the planet in body bags by the end of the year .. this is not the flu ..

and the terrible part of this virus . is it kills people pretty quick .. and people spend their last few days alone .. or seeing their loved one through a glass window or a computer monitor ..

new york city is already storing dead bodies in refrigerator trucks .. and most of the rest of the usa is only a few weeks behind NYC .. two weeks ago i was throwing out the million plus death toll number .. and the last few days the officials have been saying if we had not locked down the death toll would have been up to 2.2 million .. but if we do things perfectly from here it may be only 200,000 that is if we do things perfectly

now the economy is taking a huge hit it world wide will be a much different economy at the other side of this ..worst case is we might see 35 percent unemployment or higher during this as many people usually not counted as unemployed will be counted .

the flu kills 20,000 or so people a year and we vaccinate for ite and have multiple otc and prescribed medication .

maybe this is here to stay and 100,000 deaths a year in the US will be the new normal .


false hope and wishfull thinking and overly positive outlooks..are why people don't or didn't prepare for this ..need to look at the worst case to really hope to start preparing..

yes it is negative
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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 08:37 AM   #506
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Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

what is really different about this .. we where fighting for our way of life in the past wars ..from the revolutionary war to others ..even if our way of life changed over time ..over generation .. then in the last 40 years almost every decade has brought with it changes to our daily life ..

this time the entire world is changing the way it does things at the same time .. to not put 10 percent of the population of the planet in body bags by the end of the year .. this is not the flu ..

and the terrible part of this virus . is it kills people pretty quick .. and people spend their last few days alone .. or seeing their loved one through a glass window or a computer monitor ..

new york city is already storing dead bodies in refrigerator trucks .. and most of the rest of the usa is only a few weeks behind NYC .. two weeks ago i was throwing out the million plus death toll number .. and the last few days the officials have been saying if we had not locked down the death toll would have been up to 2.2 million .. but if we do things perfectly from here it may be only 200,000 that is if we do things perfectly

now the economy is taking a huge hit it world wide will be a much different economy at the other side of this ..worst case is we might see 35 percent unemployment or higher during this as many people usually not counted as unemployed will be counted .

the flu kills 20,000 or so people a year and we vaccinate for ite and have multiple otc and prescribed medication .

maybe this is here to stay and 100,000 deaths a year in the US will be the new normal .


false hope and wishfull thinking and overly positive outlooks..are why people don't or didn't prepare for this ..need to look at the worst case to really hope to start preparing..

yes it is negative
"maybe this is here to stay and 100,000 deaths a year in the US will be the new normal"

The side effects of Pharmaceutical Drugs kills 100,000 people a year in the US. Lots of ways to die .

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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 08:43 AM   #507
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Lets use Toilet paper as an example... demand has reached past production and reserves. One thinks.. Oh just increase production right? As the story goes... They operate at full capacity 24 hours a day 7 days a week 52 weeks a year. They CANT just make more. They might be able to get more efficient somehow.. but not enough to probably increase production by as little as 10%.

Maybe.. just Maybe some of these industries will see the need to stop working 24 hours a day and maybe increase the amount of machines so they are working 16's ( to hold current levels ) so when needed they can instantly increase production 33%? THIS kind of thinking is the solution for later situations. THIS is what really needs to be looked at as being the issue.
I think we must divide the 'production problems' into two groups - how to have auto makers or appliance plants, etc retool quickly to provide medical equipment in a national emergency....is a plan we need to have in place. This might require an investment at the fed level as well as storage solutions for the 'emergency equipment'.

BUT - there is no shortage of toilet paper - there is a hoarding situation. People are not using more - they are buying more. Part of an emergency plan might be a rationing plan for common household/personal/medical goods that stores implement when an emergency is declared. Our local groceries here are rationing the number of packages of toilet paper, etc you can buy....perhaps that's why the products are available. Isn't that happening in other areas?

What we don't like to admit is this: For 20+ years we've been 'warned' about preparing for emergencies. Right now we are still building homes on coastlines and next to fault lines....but we've been warned not to do that. We are still allowing building in dense forests where forest fires are an ANNUAL huge problem...but we've been warned about that, too.

For more than 20 years we've been warned by experts that our infrastructure - our bridges and other critical structures - are weakening but we don't do anything about it.

This is the same 'castastrophe that was waiting to happen' on a larger scale. We will never be fully prepared for something like this - we can only react quickly and be excellent at problem solving our way THROUGH the crisis. A crisis like this virus highlights our weaknesses - but also our strengths.



I wonder if this period will lead to an increase in births and divorces in the next year...

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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 09:19 AM   #508
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

I

This is the same 'castastrophe that was waiting to happen' on a larger scale. We will never be fully prepared for something like this - we can only react quickly and be excellent at problem solving our way THROUGH the crisis. A crisis like this virus highlights our weaknesses - but also our strengths.



I wonder if this period will lead to an increase in births and divorces in the next year...
The corporations big and small are retooling and producing what is need now because they are choosing to .not because the government is ordering them to. But the government is also getting out of the way .

I'll point a to the government.but our government is of and by the people and over the last 40 years or more the people have demanded the government keep them safe or make them feel safe.

But business have also had to make themselves safe from getting sued.

As you pointed people should have some cash reserve and and a few weeks of food. .many don't have that andso they run into problem.

The people being idiots are the people who have never had to care about their own safety .someone else took care of that. And if they got on trouble someone else cleaned that mess up for them.

The world we are in now is just not safe as people imagined it was
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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 09:47 AM   #509
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Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

Bill Gates laid it out pretty well 4 years ago. The most recent Computer Model that was delivered to whoever in the Federal Govt in Oct that showed the same type of infection coming from South America pretty much laid out the same scenario.

The issue is they did know. BUT I would suggest its all fine and dandy for the Feds to know, but in a FREE MARKET... it needs to trickle to industry, and I don't think it ever has.

What I found interesting watching the CNN interview with Bill Gates the other night was the interaction with you ( Bill ) told them this would happen.. and Bill plays the yeah Im right role well... BUT 10 to 40 Billion dollars that Bill and his foundation is paying now to streamline the whole vaccine process to a year or less? Maybe that should have started 4 years ago? Even the guy that predicted it.. fell asleep on acting.

Lets use Toilet paper as an example... demand has reached past production and reserves. One thinks.. Oh just increase production right? As the story goes... They operate at full capacity 24 hours a day 7 days a week 52 weeks a year. They CANT just make more. They might be able to get more efficient somehow.. but not enough to probably increase production by as little as 10%.

The same holds true with the production of many many many items. There is no, Oh we need more, and having the ability to produce it.

Maybe.. just Maybe some of these industries will see the need to stop working 24 hours a day and maybe increase the amount of machines so they are working 16's ( to hold current levels ) so when needed they can instantly increase production 33%? THIS kind of thinking is the solution for later situations. THIS is what really needs to be looked at as being the issue.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. Not enough testing, that is the Govt fault. Not enough supplies to meet demand.. and that falls flat on the laps of privatized and publicly traded industry - On both the supply and demand side of the equation.
In this line of blaming, we can say there is not enough toilet paper, and we should have seen this coming. Is it the fault of "privatized and publicly traded industry" or government. WTF?

Every year we know that between 9 million – 45 million people in the US will come down with seasonal flu, and between 12,000 – 61,000 will die. These hard numbers are tracked by the CDC and have held within these ranges for a decade.

New vaccines must be developed every year because flu viruses continually evolve and adapt with new strains, making previous vaccines ineffective. Epidemiologists and virologists have the unrelenting task of trying to "predict" through probability modeling which strain(s) are most likely to be virulent.

These vaccines are produced based on forecast models perhaps as a much as a year or even more in advance. Much like weather forecasting, meteorologists can see in real time from satellites exactly where the weather patterns are heading, but they can't predict where lightening will strike, or specific tornadoes, floods, etc.

Despite our sprawling yet disconnected and competitive medical and scientific infrastructure, we were completely blindsided and unprepared for the "sudden" COVID-19 strike. We did lose precious and critical time due to China's shenanigans, denials and coverups as well as our own political interference.

We continue to see the tragic and unnecessary loss of life because of wide disregard of official pleas and mandates for "social distancing" and other irresponsible behavior. Some governments have taken draconian measures to force compliance, but such extremes are considered unpalatable to us.

There seems to be a lot of couch-potato "analysts" focusing on one or a few broken links in this very complex global crisis. Just as shortages of testing supplies or ventilators may be blamed on incompetence, so should we have been prepared for running out of toilet paper.

Planning in any industry is modeled on risk/benefit models and forecasts, and it is unreasonable with limited resources to prepare for low probability contingencies. Another example is retail "shortages" in products like toilet paper; a nightmare for product managers, supply chain managers, and manufacturers. How does one prepare for that without exhausting allocations for other necessities?
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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 09:58 AM   #510
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File this under 'things we could be doing'....


Some 15,000 Los Angeles high school students have not participated in any online learning since schools were forced to shut down in wake of coronavirus, new data shows.


On top of that, a further 26,000 of the 105,000 high school students participating in online classes have not checked in on a daily basis since institutions closed on March 16, although some of those students may have been assigned coursework that did not require logging on.

The schools are closed but online classes are being held daily. The PARENTS - many of them - are no longer going to work.


What part of 'parents are responsible for their children' don't we understand? Are these same kids staying at home - or meeting in the streets and neighborhoods - does anyone know?

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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 10:27 AM   #511
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

File this under 'things we could be doing'....





The schools are closed but online classes are being held daily. The PARENTS - many of them - are no longer going to work.


What part of 'parents are responsible for their children' don't we understand? Are these same kids staying at home - or meeting in the streets and neighborhoods - does anyone know?
dunno - but it might be some of the kids without a device and or internet.

Where I'm at, it also depends on the school. For now, I assume.

Personally, I have droves of little kids running up and down the block together.
I don't even recognize half of them

and of course, my kid is getting schooled and hears the commotion and
even though he is smart and he sorta gets what's up with COVID 19,
it's hard for him to grasp that he's inside learning for his safety
...dad isn't just being mean.


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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 10:42 AM   #512
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

File this under 'things we could be doing'....


The schools are closed but online classes are being held daily. The PARENTS - many of them - are no longer going to work.


What part of 'parents are responsible for their children' don't we understand? Are these same kids staying at home - or meeting in the streets and neighborhoods - does anyone know?
sense when ..do those numbers surprise you ..many of these kids not going to school would not be alive if there parents had any responsibility ..andkids cannot learn responsibility from irresponsible parents .. and schools don't really teach it ..

so 40,000 of 120000 high school students in LA are not responsible or have parents who are not responsible or just dont care if their children are getting educated ..

chance are all of those irresponsible kids will stay irresponsible as we do not have the systems in place to teach responsibility..past generations starved if they where not responsible
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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 10:54 AM   #513
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Industry is mobilizing to meet our biggest challenge.

Need toilet paper? Procter & Gamble plant goes into overdrive
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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 12:21 PM   #514
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

For more than 20 years we've been warned by experts that our infrastructure - our bridges and other critical structures - are weakening but we don't do anything about it.

This is the same 'castastrophe that was waiting to happen' on a larger scale. We will never be fully prepared for something like this - we can only react quickly and be excellent at problem solving our way THROUGH the crisis. A crisis like this virus highlights our weaknesses - but also our strengths.
Unfortunately, it often does take a crisis severe enough to draw attention to what is broken and generate a resolve to mobilize. But once again, we rise to the challenge.

Massive infrastructure bill to fund construction and repairs of roads, bridges, railroads and other public works projects...
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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 01:12 PM   #515
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I saw those news articles and I think it's an excellent opportunity to start doing work we have known needs to be done - job creation, jump start an economy....lots of positives there.


Meanwhile - gas prices are very low - my son made 5 trips into town yesterday to 'fill up' our cars. At less than $2/gal seemed like a good time to get it done just in case we get to go somewhere eventually. It's sad when going to the gas station is the high point of your day.


Another 'silver lining'


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...5vLby2btim7SeU

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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 03:21 PM   #516
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

The schools are closed but online classes are being held daily. The PARENTS - many of them - are no longer going to work.
Lets turn this scenario over a bit and look from the other side... My kids parents work.. and The school he normally attends had decided they are going to maintain the same schedule as when they are in school. So my son has 4 to 6 hours of work due every day.

This idea ended up as a discussion between some of my sons teachers and the Principle and myself. They are complaining ( and rightfully so ) they are now working 16 hour days and working additionally on weekends... I am suggesting that I did not goto school to be a teacher and asking ME as a parent to sit and educate my child 4 to 6 hours a day is a bit over the top.

He should be able to complete the work himself they say.. and then I respond back, If I want my child to be involved in a "Self Discovery" based educational system he would be educated at home to begin with. - this did not sit to well with the principle - Meaning she really did not know how to respond and admitted as much.

They are now leaning towards an amount of learning that is "Required" vs thinking they need to fill the kids time.

I have a mother of 4 that works for me, and she was spending 3 hours a day just prepping for the kids to do the work, and then another 2 to 3 hours a day submitting all the work with 8 hours in the middle getting all the kids the time they needed to learn the material. PLUS she was working ( from home - graphic artist )... LOL oh the insanity!

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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 03:44 PM   #517
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Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

take the ventilators ..gm/ge can work together to manufacture them.. but they both source parts from around the world .. now with so much shut down .. those part manufacture are probably able to ramp up the production of the needed parts ..
It took some amount of digging and thinking to understand exactly why Auto Makers were the targets of making more ventilators... Think about it for a moment... it was really hard to make the connection in the 2 industries.

Of the 3, GM, Ford, and Tesla... Tesla actually makes the most sense and Ford is a not so close second... GM is simply in my mind out of the question.

Here is why I say this.. and more importantly here is why this industry in particular was selected to make these. THEY have the facilities to make parts.

The tooling and the ability to "Make" parts is the link between Auto Makers and Ventilators.

Why does Tesla stand out among them? because EVERY part needed to produce a car is built in a Giga Factory facility ( or surrounding structures ) With the exception of Batteries at this point Tesla does NOT rely on outside supply to build cars.

Ford's production of parts is mostly in Mexico, which isn't so bad but not as convenient as Tesla. GM ( the guys that said we can have 6000 maybe by the end of April ) is the least capable due to much of its supply coming from China - and "Supply" means the machining capabilities are there as well.

Tesla will have the ability to turn out parts at scale from its California Giga Factor, its Nevada Giga Factory, and from its Space X facility ( and its China Giga Factory as needed ). Ford and GM there will be a supply chain that will then have to be sent to a facility to put it all together.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++

Now lets look at the example above and relate this to the discussion of how and where things are produced. Can you now see the flaws in a world based economy (GM and Ford ) when it comes to Needed supplies?

The United States should be investing in bringing KNOWN essential business back onto American Soil. There is NO REASON there is not a ventilator facility in the United States. There is NO REASON there is not a 3M factory with the ability to at least DOUBLE if not triple production ( More machines only running 8 hours a day to meet standard demand VS fewer machines running 24 hours a day and not having the ability to increase production )

We have spent the last 20 years exporting jobs because its "Cheaper" Its time to bring the jobs home, and if not home a lot closer to home say Mexico and central and South America. Much of the shortages and issues in this moment, are the DIRECT RESULT of our outsourced economy.

Yeah yeah yeah its cool people are coming together and sewing this and doing that... but I am thinking it would be a lot cooler if the industry was in our back yard and just producing more. THIS should be our Governments priority at this point looking ahead.

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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 03:59 PM   #518
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Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

Lets turn this scenario over a bit and look from the other side...

They are now leaning towards an amount of learning that is "Required" vs thinking they need to fill the kids time.

!
ok i need this stated again some other way .. does this mean the education system isn't there to have student achieve an amount of learning .. but to fill a students time in and out of the classroom .

that not even how working in a factory or wherhouse works...what kind of work/job are they being prepared for ,

i hope i just completely misunderstood that...

now to comment on your response to me .. what i have been saying sense i first started responding in this post .. is we will bring a lot of that back here .. just in heavily automated manufacturing facilities .. robot don't show up drunk call in sick .. or sue for 100 different reasons .. and many jobs in manufacturing are now done by day workers working for outside agencies .. many worker being people on parole or lower skilled workers who speak little english . whpo will probably just be put to work on a different ticket if they dont do well .

so you will see stuff return fast..respecially as the government of china starts to collapse because of this ..
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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 05:35 PM   #519
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Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

ok i need this stated again some other way .. does this mean the education system isn't there to have student achieve an amount of learning .. but to fill a students time in and out of the classroom .

i hope i just completely misunderstood that...
A bit over a month ago my son was sick, as in out of school for a week sick. Thursday I went and picked up his school work for the week. It was a pile and a half. Over Friday Saturday and Sunday he and I drudged through it all.

As an example we did 15 pages of math.. but only 3 were graded. We had an English assignment for every day missed and only 2 were graded.

And to be clear here we are not talking point A to Point C with a bunch of Point B practice in the middle here... these were tangent rehashing silly stuff.

This is exactly what I was loaded up with again for at home schooling... and when a parent says ok fine I get the busy work.. but what specifically is being graded so we can focus on JUST THAT... they got the message

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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 06:10 PM   #520
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Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

A bit over a month ago my son was sick, as in out of school for a week sick. Thursday I went and picked up his school work for the week. It was a pile and a half. Over Friday Saturday and Sunday he and I drudged through it all.

As an example we did 15 pages of math.. but only 3 were graded. We had an English assignment for every day missed and only 2 were graded.

And to be clear here we are not talking point A to Point C with a bunch of Point B practice in the middle here... these were tangent rehashing silly stuff.

This is exactly what I was loaded up with again for at home schooling... and when a parent says ok fine I get the busy work.. but what specifically is being graded so we can focus on JUST THAT... they got the message
this is definitely for another thread ..education and teachers will be majorly disrupted by ai and online methods in the next 5 years ..but this event may be the catalyst to ignite that ..
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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 06:59 PM   #521
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Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

this is definitely for another thread ..education and teachers will be majorly disrupted by ai and online methods in the next 5 years ..but this event may be the catalyst to ignite that ..
Not even a maybe - I can say for sure that college level education as we know it is done with

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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 08:43 PM   #522
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Interesting.


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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 09:47 PM   #523
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Originally Posted by savidge4 View Post

Not even a maybe - I can say for sure that college level education as we know it is done with
i think the intentionally slow pace of education and skills training is done with ..and the expense or the expectation people will take large student loans out to get training ..

but what is going on is a worldwide problem .. not just a problem in the US ..the main strength of the US or the people of this country ..is that we have a tradition of rapidly abandoning tradition .. and in wartime we can do it almost over night .

honestly i think we will see a Universal basic income system put in in the next month or two . now this is totally me on this .. instead of sending a check to everyone ..everyone gets a fedral reserve account . that has a maximum balance .. equal to 40 hours at the federal minimum wage ti . and have the account replenish weekly . and be eligable for an account at 18 . that requires a federal reserve id . and only taxing the amount of income that exceeds the federal minimum wage. and a debit type system where it has to be spent with the id .. it can not be withdrawn and placed in a bank account

thats just a rough idea of how i think a ubi should work.. middle class and poor people are very much aware of how much they pay in taxes .. if the government state local and federal .. doesent let them go to work.. and doesn't step in to help them . in the next few month..

why pay taxes
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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 10:40 PM   #524
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Originally Posted by myob View Post

As I said earlier I have friends who also have Covid-19. It's painful to watch them in so much misery and not being able to help. My faith certainly keeps me strong. Perhaps my perspective also provides comfort because my profession is closely involved in medical, scientific, and even financial circles.

This crisis will get worse, perhaps much worse than now before an effective vaccine is developed. However, the immersion of resources and national treasures into this global pandemic and economic upheaval will be at a level comparable to the Manhatten Project during WW2 and perhaps the moon landing combined.

If that's not too indiscreet, what is your profession?

Are there any book or publication you would recommend to get an overview of the medical field and medical economics?

I never had a very strong interest in medicine.Even though I'm not in a position to do much and may never be, the crisis has made me uncomfortable as to how little I know about this topic. If anything, I can at least educate myself.

Right now, I plan to go through the major medical companies' 10k reports and just follow the money.
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Unread 31st Mar 2020, 11:21 PM   #525
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Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

If that's not too indiscreet, what is your profession?


Right now, I plan to go through the major medical companies' 10k reports and just follow the money.
i am not attacking you . or any one else . i am also drunk right now . i just googeled 10 k reports ..and it said annual report.which is yearly .

tell some drunk guy on a forum on the internet ok some very drunk guy .why when the world has compltly changed in the last 2-4 weeks.

why do you give a **** about the yearly data . with elective surgeries canceled and so many other variables completely thrown off the rails .non of that data is viable .

the world as we thought we knew it is gone over ended .done

it is not medical companies manufacturing masks and ventilators .

but i am really drunk . so tell me why you care about the report of medical companies that may not include any data from the last month.

not challenging you . really why please tell me . i want someone to tell me why .where what we are going through has never happened before . the way it is happening now .or the last month .and has broken everything .why the hell is everyone trying to process it or equate it to what has happened before or more along the line of our distorted view of what has happen before .

when nothing about what we are going through has happened before
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Unread 1st Apr 2020, 09:19 AM   #526
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Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

If that's not too indiscreet, what is your profession?

Are there any book or publication you would recommend to get an overview of the medical field and medical economics?

I never had a very strong interest in medicine.Even though I'm not in a position to do much and may never be, the crisis has made me uncomfortable as to how little I know about this topic. If anything, I can at least educate myself.

Right now, I plan to go through the major medical companies' 10k reports and just follow the money.
I am a professional peddler of MLM and affiliate products, and investor in the stock market. I just do it all extremely well.

I do have a degree in economics, although I also studied premed, science, and journalism.

Also, as a free-lance writer I have obtained credentials for access to small businesses all over the country to do interviews, reporting, etc. There are lots and lots of innovative products coming for beating down this crisis.

A good start I think for you or anyone else to get a handle on what is going on in the medical field and science in general is https://www.sciencedaily.com/ and https://www.livescience.com/

Personally, I'm on these two sites every day in addition to many specialty medical/trade journal subscriptions to keep up to date, and for topic ideas for my own reading audiences.

FYI: You will most likely never be able to approach medical companies right now because their focus is on scrambling for supplies just to save lives.
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Unread 1st Apr 2020, 10:31 AM   #527
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Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

... nothing about what we are going through has happened before
Look through recent history - like WW2. This is really nothing compared to what that generation faced and the sacrifices they made.

"We have prepared our whole lives for this very moment. We have been asked to defend our country, our world by staying home and do nothing."
- Stephen Colbert
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Unread 1st Apr 2020, 10:37 AM   #528
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Our Fathers, Grandfathers and Great Grandfathers - were called to go to leave their work, their homes, their families - and go to war.


We are being asked to sit on the couch for a couple months....think about it.


...and if you are drunk - not a good time to be posting.

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Unread 1st Apr 2020, 11:29 AM   #529
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

Our Fathers, Grandfathers and Great Grandfathers - were called to go to leave their work, their homes, their families - and go to war.


We are being asked to sit on the couch for a couple months....think about it.


...and if you are drunk - not a good time to be posting.
Oh but the battles that will be fought on that couch with families stuck in one place.

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Unread 1st Apr 2020, 12:41 PM   #530
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Florida just issued a 'stay at home' order and Georgia did the same this week. I think that's especially hard on florida with so many retirees and at a time when many 'snowbirds' were still in their winter quarters.


In Georgia, my #2 son was issued a sticker for his car that labels him an 'essential worker'...sounds like Georgia is serious about stay at home. It struck me how many details are involved in these changes - someone thought to provide 'stickers' for essential workers to save time and hassle.

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Unread 1st Apr 2020, 01:14 PM   #531
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Nearly every state has firm "stay at home" orders, except I believe Maryland, Nevada, Virginia and Kentucky. These states encourage "social distancing", but stronger measures may be coming as nationwide compliance is too frequently ignored and deaths continue to escalate.

These events have demonstrated how connected to each other we really are. The decisions we make in our own individual behaviors can directly affect others.
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Unread 1st Apr 2020, 02:12 PM   #532
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We went shopping for groceries this morning. Later, on Facebook, I read that grocery stores are asking that only one person do the shopping. One person per cart.

I have this image of me protecting my wife from potential zombie hordes.

But the One person per cart idea makes perfect sense. Some people were taking their entire families to the grocery store. Probably not smart.

When we brought in the groceries, I said to Cheryl "I wonder how many shoppers and employees touched each item in the last few days?"

In a year, I wonder if I'll still have my new found habit of washing my damn hands 30 times a day? Although in the store, I washed them after every repair customer, because we touched some nasty vacuum cleaners.

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Unread 1st Apr 2020, 02:50 PM   #533
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

We went shopping for groceries this morning. Later, on
Why? This is 2020. Have it delivered.
Seems most places are offering that nowadays.

If not that, at least shop the store online and use the pickup service.

Use the technology ... it might save your life.


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Unread 1st Apr 2020, 03:11 PM   #534
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Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

Why? This is 2020. Have it delivered.
Seems most places are offering that nowadays.

If not that, at least shop the store online and use the pickup service.

Use the technology ... it might save your life.
He may have tried and couldn't wait until next Friday to pick up his food.

I went to place my online order at my grocery store on Monday and I get to pick it up this Friday. The wait time is even longer today. Oh, and they were too backlogged to even take delivery orders.

I tried another grocery store and couldn't even select a delivery date.
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Unread 1st Apr 2020, 03:19 PM   #535
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Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

We went shopping for groceries this morning. Later, on Facebook, I read that grocery stores are asking that only one person do the shopping. One person per cart.

I have this image of me protecting my wife from potential zombie hordes.

But the One person per cart idea makes perfect sense. Some people were taking their entire families to the grocery store. Probably not smart.

When we brought in the groceries, I said to Cheryl "I wonder how many shoppers and employees touched each item in the last few days?"

In a year, I wonder if I'll still have my new found habit of washing my damn hands 30 times a day? Although in the store, I washed them after every repair customer, because we touched some nasty vacuum cleaners.
My sister and a friend of mine (separately) both went shopping and bought mainly fresh stuff. Why oh why I say because you have to go out again in 5 days. Stock up your freezer, buy canned or dried foods I say. My friend says, well I like the exercise and my sister, there is no arguing with her.

Sheeze, one slip and it could be curtains.

A 13 year old indian boy died of it in the UK on Monday, He got the symptoms on Friday, died on the Monday. No pre-existing conditions. This is extremely rare, though obviously not impossible.

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Unread 1st Apr 2020, 03:24 PM   #536
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Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

He may have tried and couldn't wait until next Friday to pick up his food.

I went to place my online order at my grocery store on Monday and I get to pick it up this Friday. The wait time is even longer today. Oh, and they were too backlogged to even take delivery orders.

I tried another grocery store and couldn't even select a delivery date.
Yeah, and then there is, "we are out of that" list 27 alternatives.

How is your little boy by the way

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Unread 1st Apr 2020, 04:21 PM   #537
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Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

Yeah, and then there is, "we are out of that" list 27 alternatives.

How is your little boy by the way
He's... settling in. He misses his teachers and his friends. He's a little cranky, just like everybody else in the house. He'll get by. He's a Riffle. We're nothing if not stubborn.

How're you doing?
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Unread 1st Apr 2020, 06:16 PM   #538
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Originally Posted by Dan Riffle View Post

He's... settling in. He misses his teachers and his friends. He's a little cranky, just like everybody else in the house. He'll get by. He's a Riffle. We're nothing if not stubborn.

How're you doing?
I'm ok, I have been staying in for weeks now, aside from a nervous trip across the street to the store a week or so ago where I spent a lot stocking up.

I'm probably becoming very unfit,

We have a a VPN so we can connect to our College's work servers via the net. Putting in full days working from home paying their bills and fortunately, still being paid. I expect the amount of work will dry up in a few weeks as not so many purchases will be going on. The college is closed till the 30th April, recently revised to that.

Conducting communication via email and the odd text message is becoming increasingly tiresome.

I suppose I was asking after your son more because he whacked his head recently.and had to have hospital attention. Sounds like he's getting over that..

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Unread 1st Apr 2020, 07:07 PM   #539
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Originally Posted by lanfear63 View Post

I'm ok, I have been staying in for weeks now, aside from a nervous trip across the street to the store a week or so ago where I spent a lot stocking up.

I'm probably becoming very unfit,

We have a a VPN so we can connect to our College's work servers via the net. Putting in full days working from home paying their bills and fortunately, still being paid. I expect the amount of work will dry up in a few weeks as not so many purchases will be going on. The college is closed till the 30th April, recently revised to that.

Conducting communication via email and the odd text message is becoming increasingly tiresome.

I suppose I was asking after your son more because he whacked his head recently.and had to have hospital attention. Sounds like he's getting over that..
Ah, that. We went back to the hospital Saturday to have the staples removed. He was a champ. He may end up with a small bald spot on the side of his head. So far, that's the worst of it. Of course, we won't truly know for 14 days from Saturday...
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Unread 1st Apr 2020, 07:27 PM   #540
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First time in here for a while, interesting debate.

Time will tell how major countries have reacted to this but I fear we will look back and say why didnt we prepare better, of course you can never prepare for this fully but mixed responses and lack of testing will cost people their lifes no doubt.

Here in Britain we are performing very poorly in testing and I think went into lockdown a bit late to slow the curve, only 2000 health workers have been tested so far and thats a disgrace these people are risking their life and potentially family especially if they have underlying conditions.

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Other countries such as Brazil and Belarus have crazy leadership that almost defy science experts but will eventually get on board.

Scary times for health and the economy, likely millions of jobs will be lost within 12 months. I am self employed working online but also have lots sales coming from travel sectors and they have stopped and will be on hold for probably 6 months before people have confidence to book for next year.

In the UK the govt are paying 80% of wages in some cases which is great but many employers wont need all their staff back when this starts to lift.

We need real leadership , everyone is pulling together and essential workers doing a great job.
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Unread 1st Apr 2020, 10:33 PM   #541
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Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

Our Fathers, Grandfathers and Great Grandfathers - were called to go to leave their work, their homes, their families - and go to war.


We are being asked to sit on the couch for a couple months....think about it.


...and if you are drunk - not a good time to be posting.
months .. one of the last responses to me was people should has a few weeks of food and finances set aside ..

how can the government ask people to sit on their couches for months .. with out the government financially supporting them for months .or longer .

your turn to think about it .. and tell me how people who cant afford to sit on their couches for months .. should sit on their couches for months .

now you can't blame the people not prepared to stay home for months if you do not want to point fingers of blame at anyone .

i will play this game
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Unread 2nd Apr 2020, 12:50 AM   #542
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Originally Posted by Odahh View Post

now you can't blame the people not prepared to stay home for months if you do not want to point fingers of blame at anyone .

i will play this game
You want to play the game.. then lets play the game... YES you can blame the people. You either meet the requirements to get an amount of Govt aid... or you get a job and do what you have to and build a savings buffer.

The people that are collecting SSI... I don't have an issue with. The people that are collecting unemployment.. no problem with them either. The ones floating outside the system and thinking the system needs to save them... I personally have a problem.

Right wrong or indifferent... life is all about CHOICES... and those that don't meet the requirements before all of this for Aid of one kind or another.. or chose not to work... that means they chose to do nothing. And the last I looked doing nothing generally gets you nothing.

This given situation has simply amplified not so good choices. I believe that good bad or indifferent ALL of us should be looking at where we were 60 days ago... where we are right now... and looking real hard at where you are 60 days from now. CHOICES have to be made to stay on the path you are on, or change the path you are on.

I get the whole stay at home stay at home stay at home thing.. but the reality is there is a BUTT LOAD of jobs out there right now... The CHOICE is there to be working tomorrow.

I have no doubt in my mind we live in the greatest country on this round earth. We will probably be the worst hit country in the world when it is all said and done with this virus... and you know why that is going to be true? because we are FREE. Think about that for a moment. Our freedom will ultimately be our worst enemy.

So yeah I have a hard time listening to complaints about the "System". “Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country,” - JFK

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Unread 2nd Apr 2020, 08:24 AM   #543
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This thread has been moved to the Main Forum section. There is a good chance that everyone on the Warrior Forum may be affected in some by this pandemic.

Supporting each other is what we do here - and this is no exception. This is not a joke, political or conspiracy thread - it has some excellent and insightful posts and debates that help us understand what's going on or at least understand out own reactions to what's going on.

For internet marketers, this 'stay at home' period of time may be the push some need to follow through, to plan and execute the steps to start a new online business. For those who often post about 'how to find motivation' - being told they must stay home could provide that motivation to 'do something'.

We know we are 'stuck' for a t least a month. Why not use this month to finally build that site/blog - to write the posts you know you've been putting off - to work on that project that is 'in your head'. Set some goals and start a Warrior Path thread to push yourself to accomplish goals by the end of the month.

If nothing else - use your time here to read through some of the best 'how to' threads to make a plan for what YOU want to do online. If you can't use this forced 'stay at home' time to help you move ahead online - you might as well give it up. You will never have a better opportunity...or excuse...to spend time online.

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Unread 2nd Apr 2020, 08:55 AM   #544
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Re: Coronavirus? Not worthy of a mention here???
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Despite what you may be watching in mass media, there is an awakening nationwide of the resiliance and self-reliance that has been unique in America since its founding. The old "Yankee ingenuity" spirit may seem to have been silenced by a society of entitlement and dependence, but it is very much alive and well.

Generations have been spoiled by decades of prosperity and comfort, even supporting ever-growing masses of people dumbed down and numbed by handouts. But, in typically American fashion, as we have seen in crises from Pearl Harbor to 9/11, after initial shock and unpreparedness, the U.S. economic and scientific juggernaut is kicking into action.

Staying at home is not a mandate to sit idly on your couch.

"The world breaks everyone, and afterward, some are strong at the broken places."
- Ernest Hemingway
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Unread 2nd Apr 2020, 09:55 AM   #545
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Originally Posted by myob View Post

Despite what you may be watching in mass media, there is an awakening nationwide of the resiliance and self-reliance that has been unique in America since its founding. The old "Yankee ingenuity" spirit may seem to have been silenced by a society of enttitlement and dependence, but it is very much alive and well.



Staying at home is not a mandate to sit idly on your couch.
Staying at home could be an opportune time to do some serious assessment of your life, your future and how it will unfold once you take control of it.

Will you take control? Some of us who have been selling real products and services to people are now falling back on other ways, the best way (in my opinion) to continue to bring in the dough, is by offering downloads, pdf files, or software, any I N F O R M A T I O N that can help people get through this.

And I'd bet that most of the Warriors have something to offer, from their personal experiences, where they live, their knowledge, the things they've done, what they know.

NOW is the time to get it out of your head and share with the world, valuable information is (or can be) terrific currency during these times.

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Unread 2nd Apr 2020, 10:20 AM   #546
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Re: Coronavirus? Not worthy of a mention here???
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If you ask me, I will tell you that there is something the Chinese are not telling the world. They have contained the virus using the same formula that has refused to bear fruits in Italy and Spain. Look at how the states and UK are struggling.
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Unread 2nd Apr 2020, 10:34 AM   #547
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Re: Coronavirus? Not worthy of a mention here???
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Originally Posted by Medon View Post

If you ask me, I will tell you that there is something the Chinese are not telling the world. They have contained the virus using the same formula that has refused to bear fruits in Italy and Spain. Look at how the states and UK are struggling.
Are you referring to the threat of summary execution as a penalty for not staying inside?

Videos are showing how locked down they became,

Nobody - specifically the states have done that...

It's impossible to get the same results if we don't do the same thing.


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Unread 2nd Apr 2020, 10:50 AM   #548
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Re: Coronavirus? Not worthy of a mention here???
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Originally Posted by myob View Post

Despite what you may be watching in mass media, there is an awakening nationwide of the resiliance and self-reliance that has been unique in America since its founding.
America might be a good example of that spirit, but it is definitely not unique.

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Unread 2nd Apr 2020, 12:08 PM   #549
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Re: Coronavirus? Not worthy of a mention here???
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I think it's the 'human' spirit.

Thanks to comments by claude (who went to the grocery) and ken (who said why did you do that?).....I placed my first ever order for groceries to be delivered.

I read their posts in this thread - then had two phone calls. Grandson in Vegas (Air Force) called to say he had symptoms so was just tested for covid-19. Second call to tell us an ex-brother-in-law (beloved uncle and good friend) is in ICU on ventilator - his first symptoms were 2 days ago.

Cancelled my planned trip to the grocery. I've been resistant to having groceries delivered ...but - local Kroger's has hired dozens of laid off workers as temp pick up and delivery employees. The fee helps a business - and a good tip helps someone trying to help themselves. win win


Edit: World cases are now over 1,000,000

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Unread 2nd Apr 2020, 12:27 PM   #550
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Re: Coronavirus? Not worthy of a mention here???
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Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

America might be a good example of that spirit, but it is definitely not unique.
[Edited by mod: A pandemic is a global event. Let's leave out the overtly nationalist comments]

From my perspective, I see that much of innovation comes from small business (called "cottage industries" in days of yore). More than half of all employment is (or now - was) through small businesses.

Historically, we've been up to the task. And I see especially throughout the US that new creative processes are at work; research, experiments, and product development.

There are more people for example like Steve Jobs, obscurely working in their homes and garages on ideas and products that will, once again, be revolutionary.
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