[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by myob

Our capacity is more than sufficient to accomplish this goal, and provide relief to other countries. Just like in previous generations, this may well become our finest hour.

I agree, but first, we must unite, get on the same page and collectively pull our heads out of our asses so that we can get an f'n move on.

This could be the thing that brings man's petty ugliness to an end or it can be what hastens our demise.

[kenmichaels]

We knew this was coming and while I think we need this to help the fight...
stuff like this makes me worry what our (USA's) future will look like.

Today it's just meta data... tomorrow it's some AI doing who knows what or for what purpose.

Government Tracking How People Move Around in Coronavirus Pandemic

[Krzysztof Cirocki]

I can recommend putting 'coronavirus stats' into uncle Google, the best stats worldwide there.

[Kay King]

The data—which is stripped of identifying information like the name of a phone’s owner—could help officials learn how coronavirus is spreading around the country and help blunt its advance.

Finally - using the data available to track a disease and potentially save lives. Not to advertise - not to sell - not to build a brand or promote an agenda....totally new concept?

Anyone who thinks where they go, what they do, who they interact with, how they spend their money, etc....is private these days is naive. Unless you live totally off the grid - you are being tracked by multiple 'entities'.

Cell phones, search engines, banks that sell info, credit bureaus, social media, the internet, grocery stores. Years ago, people chose convenience and connectivity over privacy.

IF the public is willing to just stay home I think we will see some results in 2-3 weeks. if they don't it will take longer. The country will not re-open on a Tuesday - states that get this pandemic under control will gradually restart their financial engines.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Cell phones, search engines, banks that sell info, credit bureaus, social media, the internet, grocery stores. Years ago, people chose convenience and connectivity over privacy.

Yup.
However, some of us still bitch loudly so the youngster's notice and
choose to vote in a way that minimizes that impact to the best of our ability.

IMO what they are doing and why they are doing it is great, awesome even. I'll even go so far as to say it's downright miraculous that we have the technology to do it when we need it.

Just as long as it's not a foothold to continued erosion.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Finally - using the data available to track a disease and potentially save lives. Not to advertise - not to sell - not to build a brand or promote an agenda....totally new concept?

Anyone who thinks where they go, what they do, who they interact with, how they spend their money, etc....is private these days is naive. Unless you live totally off the grid - you are being tracked by multiple 'entities'.

Cell phones, search engines, banks that sell info, credit bureaus, social media, the internet, grocery stores. Years ago, people chose convenience and connectivity over privacy.

IF the public is willing to just stay home I think we will see some results in 2-3 weeks. if they don't it will take longer. The country will not re-open on a Tuesday - states that get this pandemic under control will gradually restart their financial engines.

Agreed. That goes for individuals as well. This past week many of my friends and even some of business associates have contacted me for my recommendation for "land" to build a new home and lifestyle.


Some of my friends and associates have gone as far as thoughts to build a private community of reliable people to live off-grid.


The world is changing me thinks.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

Some of my friends and associates have gone as far as thoughts to build a private community of reliable people to live off-grid.

Is the cash crop going to be weed?



The world is changing me thinks.

Well, if I make it out to the other side, even though they say lighting doesn't strike twice
in the same place, I'm gonna pay someone to build me a bunker and I'm gonna stockpile
enough supplies, that I will feel stupid for doing it in a few years.

[Jeffery]

I did not write this. Maybe you did?...

Is the cash crop going to be weed?

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Well, if I make it out to the other side, even though they say lighting doesn't strike twice
in the same place, I'm gonna pay someone to build me a bunker and I'm gonna stockpile
enough supplies, that I will feel stupid for doing it in a few years.

Well, I have a few properties that are energy and water independent complete with plentiful wild game, fishing and farming land which I would recommend as the short list of minimal requirements to live off-grid. I have done it and it is not easy, but very doable.

Personally, I wouldn't feel stupid for doing it again. Alas, I doubt I will, but one never really knows.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

I did not write this. Maybe you did?...

Is the cash crop going to be weed?


Well, I have a few properties that are energy and water independent complete with plentiful wild game, fishing and farming land which I would recommend as the short list of minimal requirements to live off-grid. I have done it and it is not easy, but very doable.

Personally, I wouldn't feel stupid for doing it again. Alas, I doubt I will, but one never really knows.

oops i forgot to remove it..

[myob]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

I agree, but first, we must unite, get on the same page and collectively pull our heads out of our asses so that we can get an f'n move on.

This could be the thing that brings man's petty ugliness to an end or it can be what hastens our demise.

Look, 99.9% of the global population does not have the coronavirus. It will get bad, but nowhere near "our demise". This pandemic can be managed if people would cooperate and follow the mandates provided by medical professionals.

A vaccine is being developed now through perhaps the most massive scientific and medical global community ever assembled. But it will take an estimated 12-18 months. In the meantime, we are now seeing entrepreneurial and industrial transformations for interim intervention at a scale approaching the Manhatten Project during WW2.

We are going to get through this, just as we have done many times before under far worse challenges. The post-baby boom generations have experienced record prosperity and comfort, which unfortunately has not prepared them to face adversity much beyond toilet paper shortages.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by myob

Look, 99.9% of the global population does not have the coronavirus. It will get bad, but nowhere near "our demise". This pandemic can be managed if people would cooperate and follow the mandates provided by medical professionals.

A vaccine is being developed now through perhaps the most massive scientific and medical global community ever assembled. But it will take an estimated 12-18 months. In the meantime, we are now seeing entrepreneurial and industrial transformations for interim intervention at a scale approaching the Manhatten Project during WW2.

We are going to get through this, just as we have done many times before under far worse challenges. The post-baby boom generations have experienced record prosperity and comfort, which unfortunately has not prepared them to face adversity much beyond toilet paper shortages.

Demise as in - the world is splitting up and isolating,
Years and years of forward progress ... coming to a halt.

I don't mean were all going to die or anything like that.

As far as I can tell, more wars are fought for resources then for any other reason.

If the global backbone is broken due to whatever reason. That is a disaster that
can lead to our demise.

That and other things along those lines are what im referring to.

[myob]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Demise as in - the world is splitting up and isolating,
Years and years of forward progress ... coming to a halt.

I don't mean were all going to die or anything like that.

As far as I can tell, more wars are fought for resources then for any other reason.

If the global backbone is broken due to whatever reason. That is a disaster that
can lead to our demise.

That and other things along those lines are what im referring to.

Shit happens, get over it. Once this crisis is over, there will be an economic boom unlike anything in history. I see people actually coming together globally more than ever, which is largely a result of this temporary economic contraction. Take a break from watching mass media.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by myob

Once this crisis is over, there will be an economic boom unlike anything in history. I see people actually coming together globally more than ever, which is largely a result of this temporary economic contraction. Take a break from watching mass media.

I'll believe that when I see it.

lol,
I'll stop paying attention to the news as soon as they start getting some real testing done in my area. My family is in NY, NJ and in the middle of the shitstorm so I have to pay attention somewhat.

I'm in FL and I suspect because of where I'm located, another hot spot.
It sure would be nice to know for sure.

[GordonJ]

Originally Posted by myob

We are going to get through this, just as we have done many times before under far worse challenges.

Well. It does make one wonder who the WE are. In general, humans? Probably right.

What were the worse challenges? World Wars? Pandemics and epidemics? The we of those challenges, which survived, were mostly RICH people.

So, I agree. The rich will survive. Wherever they live on earth.

Now, this discussion, a lot of well thought out opinions, forethought, some decent ideas, a lot of speculation...and solid non emotional thinking.

But let me tell you what happens when the EMOTION kicks in.

My kid in NYC has Covid-19. Do you all know of anyone who has it? Does anyone in your family have it? Does your son or daughter, mother or father, sister or brother HAVE IT?

When I found out last week, and HOW they are doing things in NYC, I was angry, mad, frustrated and worried. It is a different ball game when you are on the front lines as opposed to sitting at your keyboard rendering opinions on the future.

She is 33, good physical shape, non smoker, non drinker with no health concerns...other than getting through this along with her room mate who also has it. I hope she has the worst of it behind her...but only time will tell.

After talking to her and scores of people in NYC, I have come to doubt 99% of EVERYTHING being said about this...WE, were unprepared.

The WE who will get through this...will be at least AWARE of how the world was/is totally unprepared.

Sure WE got through World Wars, however, MILLIONS DIDN'T.

The rich celebrities singing IMAGINE, will be OK, they will get through it. The rich pundits on TV, all of them, the rich basketball and football players will get through it.

So, I have to wonder what is the WE going to look like, and under what conditions, restrictions, challenges they will live with?

Maybe you are all right, and maybe some of you will be wrong.

I don't know.

I do know, when you are directly involved, affected by a loved one's situation...and exacerbated by incompetence and mis-information, you see things through less than rose colored glasses.

Those who have already lost loved ones, no matter where in the world they are at, will get through it too (maybe).

Sorry, I lack the faith in mankind which so many of you exhibit.

But just one question...what if WE don't get through it? What does life look like then.

GordonJ

[Kay King]

Some of my friends and associates have gone as far as thoughts to build a private community of reliable people to live off-grid.

In the middle of a crisis - people say that's what they will do. Once the crisis is over, people move on. II always think of 'off grid' as being alone, not as a community...

One of the phrases I HATE when I hear it on the news is 'so this won't ever happen again'. New laws are passed, a traffic light installed, people stock up on supplies...hoping to be prepared when 'this happens again'.

But what happens? Something different, something unexpected, something no one prepared for. That's how life works and we adapt as best we can.

[myob]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

I'll believe that when I see it.

lol,
I'll stop paying attention to the news as soon as they start getting some real testing done in my area. My family is in NY, NJ and in the middle of the shitstorm so I have to pay attention somewhat.

I'm in FL and I suspect because of where I'm located, another hot spot.
It sure would be nice to know for sure.

I know, these are scary times. But tell everyone you know especially your loved ones the mantra - practice social distancing, eat a healthy diet, exercise, and help others where you can.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Kay King

In the middle of a crisis - people say that's what they will do. Once the crisis is over, people move on. II always think of 'off grid' as being alone, not as a community...

One of the phrases I HATE when I hear it on the news is 'so this won't ever happen again'. New laws are passed, a traffic light installed, people stock up on supplies...hoping to be prepared when 'this happens again'.

But what happens? Something different, something unexpected, something no one prepared for. That's how life works and we adapt as best we can.

Originally Posted by myob

I know, these are scary times. But tell everyone you know especially your loved ones the mantra - practice social distancing, eat a healthy diet, exercise, and help others where you can.

No, his mind is not for rent
To any god or government
Always hopeful, yet discontent
He knows changes aren't permanent
But change is.
-Rush

"I have just tested positive for the COVID-19 virus," - Tom Rush 3/28/20 @79

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Kay King

In the middle of a crisis - people say that's what they will do. Once the crisis is over, people move on. II always think of 'off grid' as being alone, not as a community...

One of the phrases I HATE when I hear it on the news is 'so this won't ever happen again'. New laws are passed, a traffic light installed, people stock up on supplies...hoping to be prepared when 'this happens again'.

But what happens? Something different, something unexpected, something no one prepared for. That's how life works and we adapt as best we can.

we had a fragile economic system built on just in time production and distribution refined over the last 50 years ..and we got hit with a virus that was the ideal little beasti to transmit around the world ..and the only way to slow it down is to either kill ten percent at least of global gdp for a year..or let 5 percent of the world population die ..

In the US we had/have a government that does everything it can to make medical care more expensive .. because more money spent on medical care make the economy look bigger ..and it suck up like 19 percent of gdp as it is .


we life in a very fragile world .that many people had no idea how fragile it was ..until we had to break many parts of it..

i am waiting to see how screwed up that 2 trillion dollar package is and how many people it misses

[whateverpedia]

A picture is worth a thousand words:

[myob]

Originally Posted by GordonJ

Well. It does make one wonder who the WE are. In general, humans? Probably right.

What were the worse challenges? World Wars? Pandemics and epidemics? The we of those challenges, which survived, were mostly RICH people.

So, I agree. The rich will survive. Wherever they live on earth.

All rich people die too.

Originally Posted by GordonJ

Now, this discussion, a lot of well thought out opinions, forethought, some decent ideas, a lot of speculation...and solid non emotional thinking.

But let me tell you what happens when the EMOTION kicks in.

My kid in NYC has Covid-19. Do you all know of anyone who has it? Does anyone in your family have it? Does your son or daughter, mother or father, sister or brother HAVE IT?

I am sorry for what you are going through. I do have friends who have been tested positive for Covid-19, and it is a hopeless feeling that it seems there is nothing can be done but wait. But it is not a death sentence.

You perhaps have no idea how much global effort is being made to combat this virus, but I do. Because of this, our whole medical systems worldwide has been placed on high priority to combat not only this virus, but also spurred the development of technologies and waves of entrepreneurs to more quickly identify and eradicate future pandemics.

Originally Posted by GordonJ

When I found out last week, and HOW they are doing things in NYC, I was angry, mad, frustrated and worried. It is a different ball game when you are on the front lines as opposed to sitting at your keyboard rendering opinions on the future.

She is 33, good physical shape, non smoker, non drinker with no health concerns...other than getting through this along with her room mate who also has it. I hope she has the worst of it behind her...but only time will tell.

After talking to her and scores of people in NYC, I have come to doubt 99% of EVERYTHING being said about this...WE, were unprepared.

The WE who will get through this...will be at least AWARE of how the world was/is totally unprepared.

We all were totally unprepared for this viral onslaught. Beginning with the medical community, politicians, and the continuing disregard by people in general who don't take the seriousness of social distancing and enhanced hygiene. Ignorance and irresponsibility are indeed jeopardizing our health and even lives.

Usually, our immune system can defend us against viruses. For example with the common cold or flu, both of which actually are viruses. However, even with the flu, people die because their immune system is either compromised or unprepared. The flu virus evolves every season, often producing multiple strains, which is why new vaccines need to be produced every year.

Having said that, the medical community was totally unprepared for this novel COVID19 virus. Various types of the coronavirus have been around for perhaps centuries, but recently has evolved into more deadly strains such as Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS), Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS), and now the most insidious of all - SARS-CoV-2 more widely termed COVID19.

We were totally unprepared for this strain of virus, which may have been moving through our population long before it was even detected. Some reports say that perhaps as early as last November signs first began to appear. Undoubtedly there were numerous mis-diagnosis, mistakes, cover-ups, political quashing, etc. But I don't think anyone really knew at first just how ruthlessly silent and efficient the virus was at being transmitted and multiplying.

Originally Posted by GordonJ

Sure WE got through World Wars, however, MILLIONS DIDN'T.

Millions more were lost during the Spanish flu pandemic than even the war toll, when nearly 28% of the population was affected. The lessons we learned a century ago about viral transmission are saving many more millions today.

Originally Posted by GordonJ

The rich celebrities singing IMAGINE, will be OK, they will get through it. The rich pundits on TV, all of them, the rich basketball and football players will get through it.

So, I have to wonder what is the WE going to look like, and under what conditions, restrictions, challenges they will live with?

Maybe you are all right, and maybe some of you will be wrong.

I don't know.

Ultimately, all we really have is hope. But this is not kumbaya. I believe your daughter will be ok. You said she is healthy and in good shape.

Originally Posted by GordonJ

I do know, when you are directly involved, affected by a loved one's situation...and exacerbated by incompetence and mis-information, you see things through less than rose colored glasses.

Those who have already lost loved ones, no matter where in the world they are at, will get through it too (maybe).

Sorry, I lack the faith in mankind which so many of you exhibit.

As I said earlier I have friends who also have Covid-19. It's painful to watch them in so much misery and not being able to help. My faith certainly keeps me strong. Perhaps my perspective also provides comfort because my profession is closely involved in medical, scientific, and even financial circles.

This crisis will get worse, perhaps much worse than now before an effective vaccine is developed. However, the immersion of resources and national treasures into this global pandemic and economic upheaval will be at a level comparable to the Manhatten Project during WW2 and perhaps the moon landing combined.

Originally Posted by GordonJ

But just one question...what if WE don't get through it? What does life look like then.

GordonJ

Read some of the speeches by Winston Churchill while Britain faced annihilation alone, in what he termed was their "darkest hour". What we are facing now compared to such magnitude may provide better perspective.

[whateverpedia]

Originally Posted by myob

Read some of the speeches by Winston Churchill while Britain faced annihilation alone, in what he termed was their "darkest hour".

A completely false analogy. No matter how bleak those times were, they cannot be compared to what's happening today.

For starters they could see the enemy, could see it coming (with radar), and knew how to stop it in it's tracks.

That of course doesn't mean it was easy. There were great sacrifices made in stopping the "virus" that was Nazism. Mr Churchill himself summed it up very succinctly with "Never in the field of human conflict have so many owed so much to so few".

[myob]

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

A completely false analogy. No matter how bleak those times were, they cannot be compared to what's happening today.

For starters they could see the enemy, could see it coming (with radar), and knew how to stop it in it's tracks.

That of course doesn't mean it was easy. There were great sacrifices made in stopping the "virus" that was Nazism. Mr Churchill himself summed it up very succinctly with "Never in the field of human conflict have so many owed so much to so few".

We have seen the enemy. The virus has been identified, sequenced, and being targeted. Right now, social distancing is the main weapon for slowing its progression until countermeasures (vaccine) are available.

The greatest sacrifice we are being called to make in this global war is to stay in our homes.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by myob

We have seen the enemy. The virus has been identified, sequenced, and being targeted. Right now, social distancing is the main weapon for slowing its progression until countermeasures (vaccine) are available.

The greatest sacrifice we are being called to make in this global war is to stay in our homes.

and many people are using up all their saving if they had them.. and might not get help from the government at least not for several more weeks ..there is a lot more being sacrificed than you think ..

wait until part of getting on an airplane is showing up early enough to get a blood test prior to even going through the tsa line ..

[socialentry]

For anyone who still thinks that the WHO is not a vehicle for foreign policy:



Interview with Dr. Bruce Aylward, WHO assistant director general:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLvg...outu.be&t=1073


The guy is not even trying to hide it.

[perryny]

Originally Posted by myob

We all were totally unprepared for this viral onslaught.

F**k this phrase I keep hearing pisses me off.

There is no reason we should be unprepared.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Af6b_wyiwI

[Kay King]

and many people are using up all their saving if they had them.. and might not get help from the government at least not for several more weeks ..there is a lot more being sacrificed than you think ... ..

WHEN have you ever known the govt to SEND HELP in the form of checks to everyone in the country? Your posts have been increasingly negative - did you lose a job? What have you 'sacrificed'? You posted recently about moving to New York to live with/help a family member...are you still there?

This is WHY it's smart to have savings or a financial emergency fund - and why it's good to stock a 2-3 week supply of basic food and other products. I know some can't do that - and some don't do it.

As for 'preparedness' it's an issue States and countries need to address but you cannot prepare for everything. Medical supplies begin to degrade after a few months...ventilators are replaced with more updated versions so are usually not stockpiled by the tens of thousands. States have other priorities - so they pass when offered generators...do you really believe that will change?

It's easy to look at what is happening now and blame what didn't happen yesterday or last year or 5 years ago....doesn't change a thing. Life is a moving target - will PEOPLE prepare better going forward? Will they save for emergencies or stock items they might need? Probably not.

Previous generations were asked to go to war for YEARS. We are being asked to stay home for a few weeks. I feel for those who have family and friends that have contracted this virus - they have more to worry about than 'where's my check'.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by Kay King

In the middle of a crisis - people say that's what they will do. Once the crisis is over, people move on. II always think of 'off grid' as being alone, not as a community...

One of the phrases I HATE when I hear it on the news is 'so this won't ever happen again'. New laws are passed, a traffic light installed, people stock up on supplies...hoping to be prepared when 'this happens again'.

But what happens? Something different, something unexpected, something no one prepared for. That's how life works and we adapt as best we can.

The community concept is a combination of off-grid and off-the-beaten-path people that support each other. More of a private community really.


For instance, the off-grid people hunt and fish and provide the off-the-beaten-path with meat and fish. The off-the-beaten-path people provide vegetables primairly and off the shelf medicine as well as mail order supplies.


All in all, the community as a whole is stronger than the individual.


It is not really a new concept. Admittedly, a lesser known concept. Personally, I have seen it work and have also seen it fail. I know of one community that does it very well. There are probably more.

[derekwong28]

It has barely been a month since this thread started and it seems that the whole world had been turned upside down. Nobody could have predicted how bad this virus would become. I thought it would behave just like SARS in 2003, with a few small outbreaks in a few countries but sporadic cases in others. During the SARS outbreak, the laboratory where I worked had the largest collection of live SARS virus cultures in the world. Still despite more than 300 deaths in Hong Kong, the measures taken pales compared to those taken now.

I suspect that the universal wearing of face masks in Asia played a role in controlling the virus. It prevents asymptomatic people from infecting others. Another reason is that they acted very early on because of their past experience with SARS in 2003. Which meant that also had a lot of experience with contact tracing and quarantine procedures.

So far, the only good news is that the overall mortality appears to be around 1%. The most reliable date came from the Diamond Princess where 10 out of 712 infected died, taking into account that there is a large proportion of retired people on board. If you look at countries which have performed effective mass testing and contact tracking e.g. S. Korea and Germany, the death rate is around 1%. The same death is seen for infections outside of Hubei province in China.

Covid-19 virus is almost identical to a coronavirus in bats, but the bat virus could not infect humans. However, the bat coronavirus can infect pangolins and a coronavirus that infects pangolins can infect humans. It is thought that somehow, the bat coronavirus incorporated a gene of the pangolin coronavirus that allowed it to infect humans . This would have been an astronomically rare event. Right now, this is the most plausible hypothesis but nothing is certain.

The traditional methods of producing a vaccine is to use killed whole virus or live attenuated virus. However, this is probably unacceptable because of the huge risks associated with Covid-19. This leaves modern genetic engineering methods which are usually more time consuming and often not as good at eliciting immunity as whole live or killed vaccines. There would also be problems in scaling up production for mass scale vaccination. If and when a vaccine becomes available, the priority would be to give to health care workers and the elderly.

I don’t think anybody knows what the endgame would be. It is looking increasingly unlikely that the virus would just disappear by the summer months. The worst case scenario would be that we get waves upon waves of infections for the next several years until our herd immunity builds up i.e. 60-70% of the population infected naturally or vaccinated.

[Kay King]

Derek -


There was news a couple weeks ago that some in China were getting this virus a second time - was that false news? Haven't heard more about it but do we know if this builds up antibodies that would prevent a second illness?


Some diseases you only have once - or might build antibodies over time - do we know about this one yet?

[derekwong28]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Derek -


There was news a couple weeks ago that some in China were getting this virus a second time - was that false news? Haven't heard more about it but do we know if this builds up antibodies that would prevent a second illness?


Some diseases you only have once - or might build antibodies over time - do we know about this one yet?

Kay,

The reports are true but rather than re-infection, I think that it is more likely that they never cleared the virus in the first place. It could be that there was little or no virus in their samples, or that their sample had what we called "PCR inhibitors" i.e. unspecified stuff that inhibits the RT-PCR test. It is also that these patients had environmental contamination i.e. they were exposed and contaminated by the virus but not infected. I think we need several months before we know whether this virus can re-infect or not.

By the way, another piece of news. It is now thought that the dog that was tested positive for the virus was really infected.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...ong-dogs-blood

[lanfear63]

It appears that Sweden has a policy of Lockdown, What Lockdown

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52076293

[lanfear63]

Here are some stats. It gives the probability of people with the following pre-existing conditions their chances of dying if the virus were contracted. No Pre-existing conditions is 0.9%, less than one. First figure is: Death Rate Confirmed Case, the second is Death Rate, all cases. I will put a disclaimer on this as being accurate as is the net,

Although I can't find it for some reason. I was reading a BBC article by a physician saying that for a large part, people with serious Pre-Existing conditions had about a years life expectancy if they had not got the virus. The virus just expedited their demise.

Source: https://www.worldometers.info/corona...-demographics/ (scroll down) Much clearer in a chart.

COVID-19 Fatality Rate by COMORBIDITY:
*Death Rate = (number of deaths / number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%). This probability differs depending on pre-existing condition. The percentage shown below does NOT represent in any way the share of deaths by pre-existing condition. Rather, it represents, for a patient with a given pre-existing condition, the risk of dying if infected by COVID-19.

"PRE-EXISTING CONDITION
DEATH RATE
confirmed cases
DEATH RATE
all cases
Cardiovascular disease
13.2%
10.5%
Diabetes
9.2%
7.3%
Chronic respiratory disease
8.0%
6.3%
Hypertension
8.4%
6.0%
Cancer
7.6%
5.6%
no pre-existing conditions
0.9%

*Death Rate = (number of deaths / number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%). The percentages do not have to add up to 100%, as they do NOT represent share of deaths by condition."

[perryny]

Originally Posted by derekwong28

Nobody could have predicted how bad this virus would become.

That guy I posted above did. See around the 4:30 mark.

[Jeffery]

Urns in Wuhan far exceed official CCP virus death toll;riot breaks out in virus-hit Hubei

China lifted a lockdown in a province, but a neighboring province separated by a bridge would not allow the people to leave. Fights broke out on the bridge between the two province's respective police authorities and thousands of people.

[socialentry]

I keep wondering:

What does this guy know that I don't know:

Dominic Cummings seen running away from Downing Street after Boris Johnson tests positive for coronavirus

https://www.indy100.com/article/coro...box=1585316240

[savidge4]

Originally Posted by perryny

There is no reason we should be unprepared.

This is the statement I am tired of hearing. Prepared for what?

If there is a fire that consumes California... we as a nation are prepared.

If there is flooding along the Mississippi... we as a nation are prepared.

If there is a Hurricane that hits New Orleans... we as a nation are prepared.

If there is a Volcano that dumps mega tons of ash across a number of states... We as a nation are prepared.

The moment the threat goes beyond a state or region of this great United States of America it has little to nothing to do with "being prepared" because THAT is not how "prepared" works.

Really pay attention to the ventilator issue - like REALLY do some amount of research. you do realize the CHEAP ones are $20,000 each. Right now 3/29/2020 they are openly available... BUT hospitals are not buying them because they do not want to spend on something they may or may not use. NY is saying we need 30,000 Ventilators and yet they have a warehouse full of them they have not used. aside from the fact 30,000 ventilators at $20,000 each is 1/4 of the $2.2 Trillion in Corona relief. Stretch that number to 100,000 or 200,000 to ENSURE there is enough... and what is the cost? ( 4 Trillion on the top side - assuming only the need for the low end models )

And then those REALLY paying attention to the discussion start to understand that Ford and GM and Tesla are having to partner with foreign companies to make these things. Are we starting to understand that a lot of what it is WE as a nation need... is simply not made here?

WE as Americans DO NOT live within a Govt state. We live and die by the concept of FREE MARKET. Expecting our Govt to supply private industry ( The entire medical system ) with supplies DEFIES any and every principle this country is built apon.

The reason there are not enough ventilators in the system is because the Privately owned hospitals deemed the expense of having extra as to great. Why are they still short? because they have deemed the expense to great and they are looking for a handout for an item that they simply can not afford.

OUR Govt is not to blame for any of this in terms of supplies on hand. In a FREE MARKET The govt should not be supplying anything other than the financial aid in which they are providing.

The SYSTEM is not failing us... It is the greed and lack of investment by certain industries that is.

So lets jump right back to Mr. Gates - in recent CNN interview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHLJ0DaMIIc

Pay attention to the things he credits his Foundation to be paying for. There are more than a few things... They funded the super computer modelling of the agents most likely to help with this disease ( I spoke of this days before ) They are funding the Vaccine Research to name a few. ( Without anyone in Govt mandating it ) THIS is private industry at work.

The side of this that I will absolutely agree apon as Bill / Mr. Gates points out is the lack of shut downs and the lack of testing. These 2 things are absolutely directly related to Govt function. Without question we can look at our politicians as to why these 2 things have not been universal in action. THIS is Washington's biggest failure.

Shortage of supplies? Washington should have had nothing to do with any of it.

[perryny]

Originally Posted by savidge4

This is the statement I am tired of hearing. Prepared for what?

If there is a fire that consumes California... we as a nation are prepared.

If there is flooding along the Mississippi... we as a nation are prepared.

If there is a Hurricane that hits New Orleans... we as a nation are prepared.

If there is a Volcano that dumps mega tons of ash across a number of states... We as a nation are prepared.

Not sure what we can do to prepare for weather-type disasters you list, but we're talking about a virus pandemic.

Gates spelled out pretty clearly, like he had a crystal ball clearly 4 years ago, that this WILL happen and how we should prepare - to contain and prevent the global spread of such a virus.

South Korea seems to be doing a better job than us in preparing and battling this pandemic. Likely because they went through the MERS epidemic recently and chose to prepare in case such an event were to reoccur.

Just seems very clear to me that we know something like this could happen, will happen, and when it did happen, we were so slow and unprepared to react, we're now paying consequences that could have been prevented.

[savidge4]

Originally Posted by perryny

Not sure what we can do to prepare for weather-type disasters you list, but we're talking about a virus pandemic.

Your missing the point... our level of preparedness is design specifically for the list of catastrophes I have listed. The minute, we can not mobilize help from other portions of the country to help another... we are finished.

Originally Posted by perryny

Gates spelled out pretty clearly, like he had a crystal ball clearly 4 years ago, that this WILL happen and how we should prepare - to contain and prevent the global spread of such a virus.

Its not even a crystal ball, Bill Gates communicates based on provable fact. It was not a matter of if, but when. Look at the ruckus being caused by even suggesting locking down New York city. Washington state borders should have been blocked, California should have been blocked, NY should have been blocker Florida should have been blocked, Louisiana should be locked down. Colorado should be locked down. You want to take this as far as Gates is suggesting and there should be shutdowns between COUNTIES.

Our Govt is trying to balance The economy and the well being of the people of this fine country and they are losing on both fronts. Watch the CNN interview and you can see when this topic is brought up Gates can only giggle at the idea.

Originally Posted by perryny

South Korea seems to be doing a better job than us in preparing and battling this pandemic. Likely because they went through the MERS epidemic recently and chose to prepare in case such an event were to reoccur.

Lets put this into a bit of perspective 1/6th the population in a country that is 99 times smaller than the United States. So kinda sorta the size of the state of Pennsylvania?

Their Govt is not as complex as ours either. There is really no separation of Fed and state authority. The Federal level Govt in South Korea is made up of 18 first tier administrative levels that are represented with 1 person. There is no split Congress and house and then separate state Govts. A far more unified Govt.

Originally Posted by perryny

Just seems very clear to me that we know something like this could happen, will happen, and when it did happen, we were so slow and unprepared to react, we're now paying consequences that could have been prevented.

Seems clear... maybe… but what is it you think failed? Testing? and again going back to the creation of the test... you cant do this until you have samples to create tests with. With the Super Computer testing, it had to be run 2x because it was determined that the Virus model that China provided the world wasn't exactly correct. Hard to be ahead of anything if you are placed behind an 8 ball in terms of getting faulty scientific data.

HERE is the big question... what seems to obviously be working is A) testing and B) Temperature checks to pinpoint who needs testing. Who exactly are we ( should we be ) employing to do either of these?

Before you answer "The Military"
South Korea military is 5% of population
United States military is 0.5% of population ( and then the question needs to be asked how many of these fine Men and Women are actually HERE in the country? )

I am going to be a fortune teller and say this... if 10 yrs from now the same thing happens again in this fine country - the results will not be much different. The reason I can say this is because the resource that is lacking TODAY... is man power, and the authority to implement it, and THAT will never change.

[allegandro]

Even in harsh times, take your time to relax.

YouTube

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by perryny

Gates spelled out pretty clearly, like he had a crystal ball clearly 4 years ago, that this WILL happen and how we should prepare - to contain and prevent the global spread of such a virus.

My primary science school teacher told the entire class room 40 + years ago
that we were more likely to die from a global disease then nuclear war.

Plenty of smart people have tried to warn those that were listening.

I pasted a link to a government .pdf in this thread that lays out exactly what the plan was
and why and what do when it happens... from 2017.

Our government plays GERM games the same way they play war games.

Those are extensive and cover every possible contingency because thousands
of people have spent thousands of hours analyzing and training.

also, I'm pretty sure that I've seen at least half a dozen movies, books
and science channel disasters scenarios with this same script.

Feels like we should have known to me.

[myob]

The horrific scale of the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic (which evidence actually points to origins in China) infected 500 million people worldwide and killed an estimated 20 million to 50 million victims. That’s more than all of the soldiers and civilians killed during World War I combined.

Although the flu went on for nearly two years, the vast majority of deaths were packed into three especially cruel months in the fall of 1918. The rapid spread of Spanish flu in the fall of 1918 was at least partially to blame on public health officials unwilling to impose quarantines.

In Britain, for example, a government official named Arthur Newsholme knew full well that a strict civilian lockdown was the best way to fight the spread of the highly contagious disease. But he wouldn’t risk crippling the war effort by keeping munitions factory workers and other civilians home.

Now over a century later, the medical community has known full well for four months that a strict civilian lockdown is still the best way to fight the spread of COVID19 virus until an effective vaccine can be developed.

However, only few countries were willing to take such draconian measures. Our officials have pleaded for citizens to observe at least a light version - "social distancing" by staying away from large groups.

Even now, this primary defense has been largely ignored in major parts of our nation. which now has been urgently escalated to stricter enforcement. The virus continues to spread by people who are asymptomatic. So who is really to blame?

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by myob

So who is really to blame?

IMHO

At this point, it doesn't matter. Maybe later when the dust settles people can figure things like that out.

For now, we need to realize we're in a global war and we have leadership. It doesn't matter if you like that leadership or not, it doesn't matter if you trust it or not, it doesn't matter what anyone has or hasn't done in the past.

What matters now is what happens moving forward and the leadership is picking up steam and hopefully making smart choices for us as a people.

As far as I see it... that leadership is the best chance that we as people have to keep this extravagant lifestyle that we've come to enjoy. No matter how we got into the situation.

I don't have shit to offer other than staying home, however, if the powers that be came knocking and asking for help, I'll do it. With or without PPE's.

[myob]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

IMHO

At this point, it doesn't matter.

Yes it does matter. We are not only fighting a global war against the most insidious enemy the world has ever seen, but also against the ignorance of knuckleheads who continue to ignore critical front line defense lines. The flu is spreading exponentially mostly through people without symptoms. The greatest sacrifice is for us to embrace "social distancing" until a vaccine is found. Staying home is hard, but dying from the flu is harder.

"We have met the enemy and he is us."
-Walt Kelly

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by myob

Yes it does matter. We are not only fighting a global war against the most insidious enemy the world has ever seen, but also against the ignorance of knuckleheads who continue to ignore critical front line defense lines. The flu is spreading exponentially mostly through people without symptoms. The greatest sacrifice is for us to embrace "social distancing" until a vaccine is found. Staying home is hard, but dying from the flu is harder.

"We have met the enemy and he is us."
-Walt Kelly

I understand what you're saying and I'm not trying to downplay your thoughts and maybe because of who I am, I don't trust those knuckleheads anymore then you do. However, I think we should adapt, improvise, and overcome before blaming. Every minute we spend blaming is one minute we're not fighting. I'm a fighter, the USA is a fighter and all of us talking here are fighters...shit, we call ourselves warriors. Warriors don't blame...they find an f'n solution. But we are not in charge, so it really doesn't matter.

I'm probably cranky because I'm sitting on my ass...instead of doing anything that feels like I'm fighting.

[myob]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

I'm probably cranky because I'm sitting on my ass...instead of doing anything that feels like I'm fighting.

There are lots of things you can do. For example, I spend a lot of time getting the word out about social distancing within my own circle of influence and everywhere that I have a virtual presence, such as social media and this forum.

After all, we are Warriors here.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by myob

There are lots of things you can do. For example, I spend a lot of time getting the word out about social distancing everywhere that I have a virtual presence, such as social media and this forum.

After all, we are Warriors here.

I set up every 60+ year old that I had a personal relationship with,
with a month of provisions and a network to get whats needed when shit
gets real bad. ALL of them promised me they would stay in.

Turns out ALL but two lied. - I guess to humor me.

Now I sit.

You're right I should do something else.
I have resources, connections, and money.

I appreciate the reminder

[myob]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

I think we should adapt, improvise, and overcome.

Semper Fi.

The Stars and Stripes Forever

[whateverpedia]

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Yes, they are heroes.

And just about everyone I know is carrying around a huge burden that feels like they are carrying the world.

Not just now, but always.

I think a facet of human nature is to take any problems we have, big or small, and expand then to just below the breaking point.

And we take problems that would break an ordinary person, and we squeeze them until they are manageable.

I think both of those things are in most of us. And it astounds me, the level of bad assery we are mostly capable of...if we are called to the task.

Doctors don't become doctors because they are brave, heroes. They become heroes because it's in them..and it was required.

This pandemic is showing me that most people can rise to the occasion. Set aside squabbles, bickering...because this is bigger than that.

[myob]

Originally Posted by perryny

F**k this phrase I keep hearing pisses me off.

There is no reason we should be unprepared.

No one could have known in advance how far the virus had infected the population. Even now despite all the warnings from officials for "social distancing", asymptomatic people continue to crowd together, spreading the virus exponentially.

But we are now seeing the most massive war-time diversion of resources, transformation of our industrial capacity, and all-out mobilization to defeat this virus since the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor and 9-11.

We certainly weren't prepared for those either.

Each and everyone of us now has an essential role to play in the greatest war of our generation.