[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by lanfear63

As to politics, Covid and just about anything else, you are just as open as anyone else.

I love me some left handed compliments

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

I love me some left handed compliments

"Open" in this context mean "I don't know the answer".

In every conversation I have ever had with anyone, the term "Open minded" refers to the idea that critical thinking is abandoned, and you blindly accept whatever is said without question.

Anyone who does not do that is closed minded.

In my entire life, I've never seen an exception to that.

In fact "you are just as open as anyone else." literally means "You are as ignorant about the subject as anyone else."

And many times, that's true.

Think about this. You cannot be "open minded" if you know the answer to a question. It's impossible. If you know the answer, you are now "closed minded" to all the wrong answers. Of course, if better information comes along, or a better argument, that changes.

And it may seem like someone telling you "you should be open minded' means that you should be open to learning more, that's never what they really mean. They mean that you should believe what they say, no matter what you already know.

[Kay King]

the term "Open minded" refers to the idea that critical thinking is abandoned, and you blindly accept whatever is said without question.

That's interesting as I was taught something totally different. To us, 'open minded' meant 'willing to think out of the 'norm' - willing to consider new ideas or new lifestyle or a new way of doing things'.
(dictionary definition: "willing to consider new ideas; unprejudiced.")

My Uncle Pete used to say 'don't be so open minded your brains fall out'. he said that a lot to his kids and never noticed no one thought it was funny.

"Close minded" in my definition is someone who is unwilling to consider new ideas or a different way of doing things, dogmatic, stuck in his ways.
(dictionary def; "having or showing rigid opinions or a narrow outlook.)

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Kay King

That's interesting as I was taught something totally different. To us, 'open minded' meant 'willing to think out of the 'norm' - willing to consider new ideas or new lifestyle or a new way of doing things'.
(dictionary definition: "willing to consider new ideas; unprejudiced.")

Yes, that is the definition of the word. But that's not how it's used here.

It's not what it means, it's how it is used in a specific context, a specific sentence.

Originally Posted by Kay King

"Close minded" in my definition is someone who is unwilling to consider new ideas or a different way of doing things, dogmatic, stuck in his ways.
(dictionary def; "having or showing rigid opinions or a narrow outlook.)

That would be my definition as well.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Yes, that is the definition of the word. But that's not how it's used here.

It's not what it means, it's how it is used in a specific context, a specific sentence.

.

USually when people are demanding other be open minded ..that person believes they are right .. and the other person should just believe the same thing without question ..

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Odahh

USually when people are demanding other be open minded ..that person believes they are right .. and the other person should just believe the same thing without question ..

I am not sure that's always the case. But every time I've heard it directed at me (always about some pseudoscience idea) it's been true.

Again, it's not the words "open minded". it's the context.

A related phrase is "Thinking outside the box". And I've heard that nearly always in a more constructive and informative context...although they mean similar things.

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

"Open" in this context mean "I don't know the answer".

In every conversation I have ever had with anyone, the term "Open minded" refers to the idea that critical thinking is abandoned, and you blindly accept whatever is said without question.

Anyone who does not do that is closed minded.

In my entire life, I've never seen an exception to that.

In fact "you are just as open as anyone else." literally means "You are as ignorant about the subject as anyone else."

And many times, that's true.

Think about this. You cannot be "open minded" if you know the answer to a question. It's impossible. If you know the answer, you are now "closed minded" to all the wrong answers. Of course, if better information comes along, or a better argument, that changes.

And it may seem like someone telling you "you should be open minded' means that you should be open to learning more, that's never what they really mean. They mean that you should believe what they say, no matter what you already know.

Up north, NY, NJ, when you use the word "left", as I did with left-handed compliment" or if it's used like
"hey, your compliment took a left turn", it loosely translates into, "I'm paying attention and I see your innocent words are truly an insult."

No joke.

I've also seen it used where it translates to, "hey dum dum, I know you meant to compliment me, but you really insulted me."

[Matthew North]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Other reasons people love conspiracy theories;

Covid has amplified a web of conspiracy theories involving the NWO, bill gates, vaccines, jewish people, etc.. to a roaring climax. It's the final move before the world burns. It adds to the story. Just one or two steps left to go before total vindication.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Up north, NY, NJ, when you use the word "left", as I did with left-handed compliment" or if it's used like
"hey, your compliment took a left turn", it loosely translates into, "I'm paying attention and I see your innocent words are truly an insult."

No joke.

I've also seen it used where it translates to, "hey dum dum, I know you meant to compliment me, but you really insulted me."

I didn't take it as an insult as much as a positioning statement.

Saying that someone is "open minded" is a positioning statement. It implies that you are an intellectual superior that knows more than the other person, and that gives you the ability to judge how they think.

That may sound negative, but I do it all the time in selling. For example, by telling someone "You have a good sense of humor" it's a compliment, but it's really positioning yourself as the authority, and judging and approving of something the other person said/did. Approving of something is a power move.

Most of this is done unconsciously. Nearly everyone would deny that they do it.

But me? I'm about as judgmental as they come.

[Frank Donovan]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I didn't take it as an insult as much as a positioning statement.

Saying that someone is "open minded" is a positioning statement. It implies that you are an intellectual superior that knows more than the other person, and that gives you the ability to judge how they think.

That may sound negative, but I do it all the time in selling. For example, by telling someone "You have a good sense of humor" it's a compliment, but it's really positioning yourself as the authority, and judging and approving of something the other person said/did. Approving of something is a power move.

Most of this is done unconsciously. Nearly everyone would deny that they do it.

But me? I'm about as judgmental as they come.

I thanked your post, but don't take it personally. It was a power move.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

I thanked your post, but don't take it personally. It was a power move.

I would like to say that I approve of your power move. Well done.





Take that!

[kenmichaels]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I didn't take it as an insult as much as a positioning statement.

Saying that someone is "open minded" is a positioning statement. It implies that you are an intellectual superior that knows more than the other person, and that gives you the ability to judge how they think.

That may sound negative, but I do it all the time in selling. For example, by telling someone "You have a good sense of humor" it's a compliment, but it's really positioning yourself as the authority, and judging and approving of something the other person said/did. Approving of something is a power move.

Most of this is done unconsciously. Nearly everyone would deny that they do it.

But me? I'm about as judgmental as they come.

Isn't every insult a positioning statement and or power move?

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

Isn't every insult a positioning statement and or power move?

Well, now that you mention it, probably.

I suppose the child yelling "You stink!" because you won't let them watch an R rated movie isn't a power move, it's a reflex to relieve pent up tension. But among adults? probably.

And to be clear, I'm answering the question as an authority...another power move.

And now that you bring it up, I think every compliment could be (probably unconsciously) a power move. Maybe out of love, but it's still a positioning statement.....placing yourself in the hierarchy.

Added later: Our cats entertain us, but they also fascinate me. Watching one cat lick the head of the other cat...then hold his head in place while licking it...then eventually sitting on the other cat, until the other cat gets angry and chases the dominate cat. And I realize that they are just simpler versions of us. Routines, habits, establishing a place in the hierarchy.....are all a big part of cats, and us.

[Princess Balestra]

I so glad powah stuffs comes down to kitties an' lickin'.


Prolly I ain't too cut out for lizards an' headbutts.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Well, now that you mention it, probably.

I suppose the child yelling "You stink!" because you won't let them watch an R rated movie isn't a power move, it's a reflex to relieve pent up tension. But among adults? probably.

And to be clear, I'm answering the question as an authority...another power move.

And now that you bring it up, I think every compliment could be (probably unconsciously) a power move. Maybe out of love, but it's still a positioning statement.....placing yourself in the hierarchy.

Added later: Our cats entertain us, but they also fascinate me. Watching one cat lick the head of the other cat...then hold his head in place while licking it...then eventually sitting on the other cat, until the other cat gets angry and chases the dominate cat. And I realize that they are just simpler versions of us. Routines, habits, establishing a place in the hierarchy.....are all a big part of cats, and us.

You never talk about your whiskers or where they are

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by Matthew North

Covid has amplified a web of conspiracy theories involving the NWO, bill gates, vaccines, jewish people, etc.. to a roaring climax.

I'm going to take a risky stand right here and now. I believe that Jewish people exist.

There, I said it.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I'm going to take a risky stand right here and now. I believe that Jewish people exist.

There, I said it.

I always thought you were rather Orthodox

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by lanfear63

I always thought you were rather Orthodox

I guess I really walked into that one. Well done, my young Padawan.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

But Sweden did shutdown. It just wasn't mandated. The article I linked to explains it very well.

The risk is that people only seem to worry about COVID when it has directly affected them. Then all of a sudden they "get it."

Until then, it's a hoax or not that big a deal or "just the flu."

Not really my brothers house mate got it, he had mild symptoms and went back to work a week later, and my brother living in the same house, tested negative, (doesn't sound like some wildly infectious virus that is the Spanish flu part two).

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

Why is he a conspiracy nut? He is sharing data from the CDC.
Are the facts he's sharing wrong?

I genuinely would like to know why people would not accept facts such as these. Is it because the facts don't fit the story we already have in our head?

Is it because we think he's lying about the facts? We can go to the CDC or any number of other websites and see the same data. I listed some above.

Is it because we are afraid or not sure what we think and so we are being super cautious?

Why would data to date such as out of 100,000 confirmed cases X number will be hospitalized and Y number will die not be accepted?

Mark

Exactly, middle aged women and men are especially susectable to tv reporting.

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

I like trying to understand things, if you do too, then you may find this interesting..

Link to research article
Addicted to answers: Need for cognitive closure and the endorsement of conspiracy beliefs

(It's a for pay link - you can read all of it for free, as long as you do it the first time you click it... and you have to read it within a few hours because they will kill access)

Link to orig article: Why do people believe conspiracy theories?

What are conspiracy theories?

First, let’s define the term.......


That’s why understanding the psychology of conspiracy theories is more important than ever. In many ways, conspiracy theories are designed to be appealing to our brains in stressful, uncertain times. This is a particularly good time to use our wise minds — acknowledge our anxiety, but also weigh the facts so we can be empowered with useful knowledge in the face of uncertainty.

And sometimes some believe in conspiracy theorys, since the evidence they have found is overwhelmingly on their side.

And this isn't finding a square rock on Mars,and saying, "look solid evidence of a house" they may fit your narrative, but individuals finding a lot more solid and impossible to dispute evidence.

I have learned over the years, (on another forum, not the against WF TOS one posted previously) that solid evidence won't work, and the more you overcome all objections the more they object.

As well as forgetting and asking again, or the Goldfish syndrome.

In the end you realize that they will continue to believe in that they want to believe since it is more comforting than inconvient, and facts mean nothing.

Or a bit like Tomorrowland, (Disney movie) where you try to convince others that an alternative dimension is there, or energy can be obtained from Earths atmosphere, but no one will accept it. So you think ok, l will find people who will listen and we will create our own world.

And l don't agree with the third world war bit, but the rest sure.

If you cannot reason, or convince then just like the Wright Brothers ignore them and go ahead, (they will get it or some will).

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Odahh

you want a theory .. that can make some sense .. the oil industry in the uited states .. developed some of the perpetual energy tech they have reportedly been buying up for 50 years .. it was expensive but it was the only way they could power many if the fracking rigs and be profitable ..


now that russia and saudi arabia put much of the fracking industry in the US out of business ..the energy companies in the US are now refining the perpetual energy device technology and with be puting it on the market in the next 2-10 years ..the grid is falling apart in the USA ..and it is far more profitable to give russia and saudia the finger at the same time they make solar and wind turbines obsolete . in ten years they might be at the point you can put them in an electric vehicle that has a super capacitor built into the frame of the car ..the we can build desaination plants and move water around the country through the oil pipeline system

An inventor in AU did likewise, but after his backers did a runner, our gov, bought it, and did we, the general public get access to it, nope. And what happened to it, the gov, is using it for remote and military applications only.

Made available to the general public, eventually.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Not really my brothers house mate got it, he had mild symptoms and went back to work a week later, and my brother living in the same house, tested negative, (doesn't sound like some wildly infectious virus that is the Spanish flu part two).

I agree. The fact that your brother's housemate got it, and had mild symptoms is incontrovertible proof that the virus is not deadly when anyone else gets it.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I agree. The fact that your brother's housemate got it, and had mild symptoms is incontrovertible proof that the virus is not deadly when anyone else gets it.

It isn't incontrovertible proof, but the WHO, agree's that it 99% of the general public who will get it will only get mild to no symptions.

Average death rate from the flu is .04%, Covid is .05%, or .01% out of 100, higher.

And before the all ages,fit and healthy die of this comes up, all ages from babys up to 20 year olds also die of the common flu, (you can Google that one).

The media has hyped the s....t out of this and my state of Victoria is hype central in my country.

[Jeffery]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

<snip>

The media has hyped the s....t out of this and my state of Victoria is hype central in my country.

Forewarned is Forelearned.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

Forewarned is Forelearned.

I thought you where going to say, Forwarned is Forearmed? We cannot arm ourselves, apart from an extra sharp potato masher, which we probably cannot buy, although buying a pair of shoes according to our illustrious leader is killing people, glad l a'int in the market for a three piece suit.

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

It isn't incontrovertible proof, but the WHO, agree's that it 99% of the general public who will get it will only get mild to no symptions.

Average death rate from the flu is .04%, Covid is .05%, or .01% out of 100, higher.

Your math is wrong.

Okey Dokey.

As of yesterday there have been 25,014,282 cases tested positive and 843,100 deaths attributed to Covid. That's worldwide. That's directly from the WHO website a minute ago.

That's 3.3% of the cases resulting in death.

As of today, there are 120,000 cases in Ohio and 4,105 deaths. That's 3.4%

In the US there are 5,930,000 cases and 182,000 deaths. That's 3% on the nose.

And if you are over 70, there is a 15% chance of dying from it, if you get it. Hardly the flu.

From the WHO website. The World Health Organization updated guidance for doctors treating COVID-19 earlier this week and provided explanations to categorize most of the cases doctors will see.

According to the new report, "while most people with COVID-19 develop mild or uncomplicated illness, approximately 14% develop severe disease requiring hospitalization and oxygen support and 5% require admission to an intensive care unit to try to prevent the most severe complications including septic shock — a significant drop in blood pressure that can lead to stroke, heart or respiratory failure, failure of other organs or death."



An added piece of information...if the Covid patient gets a ventilator, there is an 80% chance they will still die. This virus is vicious, especially on the older people and the obese.

[1Bryan]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Your math is wrong.

Okey Dokey.

As of yesterday there have been 25,014,282 cases tested positive and 843,100 deaths attributed to Covid. That's worldwide. That's directly from the WHO website a minute ago.

That's 3.3% of the cases resulting in death.

As of today, there are 120,000 cases in Ohio and 4,105 deaths. That's 3.4%

In the US there are 5,930,000 cases and 182,000 deaths. That's 3% on the nose.

And if you are over 70, there is a 15% chance of dying from it, if you get it. Hardly the flu.

From the WHO website. The World Health Organization updated guidance for doctors treating COVID-19 earlier this week and provided explanations to categorize most of the cases doctors will see.

According to the new report, "while most people with COVID-19 develop mild or uncomplicated illness, approximately 14% develop severe disease requiring hospitalization and oxygen support and 5% require admission to an intensive care unit to try to prevent the most severe complications including septic shock — a significant drop in blood pressure that can lead to stroke, heart or respiratory failure, failure of other organs or death."



An added piece of information...if the Covid patient gets a ventilator, there is an 80% chance they will still die. This virus is vicious, especially on the older people and the obese.

Hi,

You are using CFR and he is using IFR. IFR is agreed to most likely be around 1/10 to maybe even 1/15 of what CFR is because 80-90% of all Covid cases will NOT be confirmed by a lab.

The Sero testing in New York showed that.

This is why your numbers are high and his are lower. You are talking 2 different things -- CFR and IFR are not the same thing.

[whateverpedia]

Originally Posted by 1Bryan

You are talking 2 different things -- CFR and IFR are not the same thing.

I'm shocked! Shocked I tells ya! Claude and the other guy using a different set of data to come to differing conclusions!

Who'd 'a thunk it!

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by 1Bryan

Hi,

You are using CFR and he is using IFR. IFR is agreed to most likely be around 1/10 to maybe even 1/15 of what CFR is because 80-90% of all Covid cases will NOT be confirmed by a lab.

The Sero testing in New York showed that.

This is why your numbers are high and his are lower. You are talking 2 different things -- CFR and IFR are not the same thing.

omfg anyone posting anything that need the reader to google to understand ..what ever ..

please make your point based of what you post in a thread ..
oh whatever that is way to much to ask

[Kay King]

Explained here:


https://www.who.int/news-room/commen...-from-covid-19

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Your math is wrong.

Okey Dokey.

As of yesterday there have been 25,014,282 cases tested positive and 843,100 deaths attributed to Covid. That's worldwide. That's directly from the WHO website a minute ago.

That's 3.3% of the cases resulting in death.

An added piece of information...if the Covid patient gets a ventilator, there is an 80% chance they will still die. This virus is vicious, especially on the older people and the obese.

And let me bring up some numbers, this is how many deaths Aussies have experienced AU wide since 22 Jan, (just over 8 months).

https://www.health.gov.au/news/healt...d-case-numbers

And this is an official gov, site.

So 25,547 new cases and 600 deaths, out of a population of 25 million!

And let's compare that with the common flu, (which has had zero deaths this season), but plenty last season.

a total of 310,011 laboratory-confirmed flu notifications by the beginning of December1. On a more serious note, by October 6 more than 800 influenza-associated deaths had been officially recorded, the majority of these were due to influenza A (96%, n=782) and the ages ranged from under 12 months of age to 102 years. Where sub-typing information was available, 128 were associated with influenza A (H3N2), 29 with influenza A(H1N1)pdm09, and 30 with influenza B. The median age of deaths notified was 86 years (but ranged from under 12 months of age to 102 years)1.

https://www.sonichealthplus.com.au/h...orst-on-record

And sure the flu had two extra months added on, but even taking that away the common flu deaths is still way higher than Covid.

And remember we had a really bad flu season last year, so if anything the flu and Covid death rates are very likely equal.

Or as some of the smartest and most prestigious institutions on the planet have been saying, it is another strain of the flu.

And sure the US is different, and sure you are in a slightly higher risk bracket, but seek out the best health advise possible. D....headed doctors and worse politicians and their band of muppets, are not the best advise available.

Trust me on that, my state has the highest death rate of all other states combined and some here are going quite ape-s...t.

Originally Posted by 1Bryan

Hi,

You are using CFR and he is using IFR. IFR is agreed to most likely be around 1/10 to maybe even 1/15 of what CFR is because 80-90% of all Covid cases will NOT be confirmed by a lab.

The Sero testing in New York showed that.

This is why your numbers are high and his are lower. You are talking 2 different things -- CFR and IFR are not the same thing.

Thank you, members here since some are already scared to death, tend to jump on someone than to ask, for clarification.

[Mark Singletary]

Without even using a calculator, you proved Claude's point brilliantly.

If the flu killed 800 people out of 310,011 cases and COVID killed 600 out of 25,547 cases, COVID is many times worse.

Or what am I missing?

Mark

Originally Posted by tagiscom

And let me bring up some numbers, this is how many deaths Aussies have experienced AU wide since 22 Jan, (just over 8 months).

https://www.health.gov.au/news/healt...d-case-numbers

And this is an official gov, site.

So 25,547 new cases and 600 deaths, out of a population of 25 million!

And let's compare that with the common flu, (which has had zero deaths this season), but plenty last season.



https://www.sonichealthplus.com.au/h...orst-on-record

And sure the flu had two extra months added on, but even taking that away the common flu deaths is still way higher than Covid.

And remember we had a really bad flu season last year, so if anything the flu and Covid death rates are very likely equal.

Or as some of the smartest and most prestigious institutions on the planet have been saying, it is another strain of the flu.

And sure the US is different, and sure you are in a slightly higher risk bracket, but seek out the best health advise possible. D....headed doctors and worse politicians and their band of muppets, are not the best advise available.

Trust me on that, my state has the highest death rate of all other states combined and some here are going quite ape-s...t.



Thank you, members here since some are already scared to death, tend to jump on someone than to ask, for clarification.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

Without even using a calculator, you proved Claude's point brilliantly.

If the flu killed 800 people out of 310,011 cases and COVID killed 600 out of 25,547 cases, COVID is many times worse.

Or what am I missing?

Mark

You are not taking into account that Covid isn't wildly infectious, otherwise, (as you have pointed out if it had infected over 300,000 the number of dead would be much higher).

So the Covid infection rate is much lower, but fatalities are higher, or in other words, let both go and run a comparison and the Flu is worse!

[Declan O Flaherty]

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

Your math is wrong.

As of yesterday there have been 25,014,282 cases tested positive and 843,100 deaths attributed to Covid. That's worldwide. That's directly from the WHO website a minute ago.

That's 3.3% of the cases resulting in death.

Flu deaths are calculated against the population. The rules don't conveniently change to fit your bias. If we were to talk in those terms then 35% of people die in the US from cancer each year.

How are there any people left?

As of now there are 7,826,501,117 people in the world. There are 843,100 deaths attributed to - cough cough - Covid.

That's 0.01% of deaths from Covid. And even that's a stretch. Was it Covid? Was it the car accident? Who knows? We know for certain they are cooking the numbers. Why would they need to do that f the virus is so deadly?

The truth is, people who crash cars are more likely to die in a car crash. People who get cancer are likely to die of cancer. And old people with an average age of 78 are likely to die from the flu if they get the flu.

I'll still drive, I'll still smoke and drink, and I'll still never put a mask on my face.

As of today, there are 120,000 cases in Ohio and 4,105 deaths. That's 3.4%

That's 0.03%

In the US there are 5,930,000 cases and 182,000 deaths. That's 3% on the nose.

And that's 0.05%

And if you are over 70, there is a 15% chance of dying from it, if you get it. Hardly the flu.

Sounds a lot like the flu to me. Next you'll be telling me it affects sick people and fat people at much higher rates than, you know, somewhat healthy people.

An added piece of information...if the Covid patient gets a ventilator, there is an 80% chance they will still die. This virus is vicious, especially on the older people and the obese.

It's not vicious. Prob'ly not a good idea to shove thousands of people into nursing homes though. Flu has always been hard on the vulnerable, but because you don't see it broadcast into your noggin 24/7 - you pay no attention.

The only difference between this flu and any other flu, is the story attached to it. Take face masks as an example: If they worked, don't you think they would be heavily recommended every year when flu season comes around? It would save tens of thousands of lives every single year, around the world.

Ask yourself, why haven't they been mandatory every year for the vulnerable? We know the flu kills old people. We know it kills people who have health problems. So why haven't they done exactly that? Why haven't they protected those people every year? Why haven't they mandated these magical masks that we all must wear to protect each other just as the pandemic is fading?

They either don't care, are once again incredibly incompetent, or they are lying about the masks, which is more likely considering they've lied about everything else to date.

I've seen more flip-flopping on Science in the last 5 months than I have seen in my lifetime.

[Odahh]

actuall at thei point the main difference between the death from flue and covid are .. the death from covid are from an actual count .. where as the flue death every year are from an estimation based on a model .. so no actual count..

also in the USA there is likke 5 month out of the year that are considered cold and flue season.. this is spread faster in hot climate than is spread at the begining of spring before temperatures warmed up .

[Declan O Flaherty]

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

I like trying to understand things, if you do too, then you may find this interesting..

Link to research article
Addicted to answers: Need for cognitive closure and the endorsement of conspiracy beliefs

(It's a for pay link - you can read all of it for free, as long as you do it the first time you click it... and you have to read it within a few hours because they will kill access)

Link to orig article: Why do people believe conspiracy theories?

You're trying really hard, aren't you mate?

Nobody said covid was created in a spaceship. Nobody said the first know carrier was Dracula. The fact is, you were told to call people a conspiracy theorist when they question the motives and statements from 'known' liars.

Why do people buy into silly stories? Why not ask the majority of people around the world, why they believe in a man in the sky?

Interesting that, no?

The fact is, and it is a fact, the world is chocked to the brim with people who believe in silly nonsense. I just proved that, right?

Here's the REAL truth: The story of covid being a deadly virus, doesn't make more sense than covid being no more severe than a bad flu. So, questioning the narrative, that this is a deadly virus, continually being pushed out by the very people who have been WRONG about everything from the beginning, is the same as believing the earth is flat and the Virgin Mary appearing on a grilled cheese?

I don't think so.

Those who tell the stories, rule society - Plato

I don't believe aliens abduct people. I don't believe the earth is flat. I don't even believe in a sky daddy. But somehow when it comes to questioning the motives an statements of proven liars, and very, very incompetent people who have been wildly wrong about everything from the start, I'm now a conspiracy theorist?

How does that logic work?,

You do know, outside your own little information bubble, there are many Scientists and Doctors who also question the Covid. Are they conspiracy theorists too? Does that make sense in your brain?

What you can't get around, is that you were told to call people conspiracy theorists if they question the Covid narrative. You didn't decide to do that all by yourself. You were told to do it. Because if you did decide to use your own brain, you would see how utterly ridiculous it is to compare a flat earther to a person who questions a narrative riddled with inaccuracies.

It's embarrassing to watch at this stage.

[Jeffery]

Unfortunately, some people in this thread are just not worthy. Resorting to name calling and belittling people who disagree with others opinions based on facts or no facts is just not worthy.

If I was going to be sent to a deserted island for the rest of my days and was given one choice of anything to bring with me.. it would be the people in this thread that are not worthy.. afterall .. a man has got to eat.

[Dan Riffle]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Not really my brothers house mate got it, he had mild symptoms and went back to work a week later, and my brother living in the same house, tested negative, (doesn't sound like some wildly infectious virus that is the Spanish flu part two).

Anecdotal evidence is suspect at best. Your brother could have had a prior asymptomatic case of the virus and currently is immune. Hell, depending on the timing of the tests, your brother could've given it to him.

Your logic here is precisely what makes this virus so dangerous. If it weren't for the asymptomatic nature of the virus, it wouldn't be nearly as dangerous.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by Odahh

actuall at thei point the main difference between the death from flue and covid are .. the death from covid are from an actual count .. where as the flue death every year are from an estimation based on a model .. so no actual count..

also in the USA there is likke 5 month out of the year that are considered cold and flue season.. this is spread faster in hot climate than is spread at the begining of spring before temperatures warmed up .

And the figures l gave for AU flu season last year, wasn't speculative. Not sure about the US?

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Anecdotal evidence is suspect at best. Your brother could have had a prior asymptomatic case of the virus and currently is immune. Hell, depending on the timing of the tests, your brother could've given it to him.

Your logic here is precisely what makes this virus so dangerous. If it weren't for the asymptomatic nature of the virus, it wouldn't be nearly as dangerous.

Agreed, but my brothers boarder, works in the train line industry, or he runs into a lot of people.

But l agree, eventhough my brother has been laid off work for some time, since he works at a movie theater, could also have picked it up from passing moviegoers.

Once a person gets this, it can be two weeks before symptions show

And l just looked it up, it is also true if you show no symptions you can still pass it on to others,

But yet again last years data shows that the flu is more transmissible, than Covid when both are let loose, and has a higher mortality rate.

And ignoring the irony in the thanks count, this shows that individuals, need to seek out the best advise possible when making judgements on what to do and how to do it.

When l see a 21 year old Doctor, who hasn't unwrapped his Diploma, saying that everyone should do this, and then l see another Doctor with 30 years experience, an IQ most likely in the top range and more than 30 Diploma,s and Degrees on her walls at home, saying the opposite, then l will go with the second person.

And l certainly won't blindly believe in what a site is saying about this, when their advise in the past about other things has been riddled with doubts.

[lanfear63]

From the CDC website for the Flu in 2017 for the US, a representative year.

Number of deaths: 6,515
Deaths per 100,000 population: 2.0

Covid deaths 2020 so far: 186,917

Where is the argument, there is none.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Anecdotal evidence is suspect at best. Your brother could have had a prior asymptomatic case of the virus and currently is immune. Hell, depending on the timing of the tests, your brother could've given it to him.

Your logic here is precisely what makes this virus so dangerous. If it weren't for the asymptomatic nature of the virus, it wouldn't be nearly as dangerous.

couple that with the US having large numbers of elderly obese people ..

a high percentage of the population with obesity and type 2 diabetic or prediabetic ..

and a third of the population is poor minority groups living in homes with multiple generations ..

then we live in a big country ..and when on area gets locked down many people just get in their care and lgo to an area with fewer cases .. and with a virus like covid .. thats the perfect way to spread it ..

[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by lanfear63

From the CDC website for the Flu in 2017 for the US, a representative year.

Number of deaths: 6,515
Deaths per 100,000 population: 2.0

Covid deaths 2020 so far: 186,917

Where is the argument, there is none.

Love to see your link because that is way off from my link (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html) which says during the 2017 season about 61,000 died.

Mark

[Kay King]

[QUOTE]having large numbers of elderly obese people ..[/QUOT]


Nope - one thing I noticed living in states with high rates of obesity is that you don't see a lot of elderly obese people. Most don't live long enough to be elderly.

[tagiscom]

Originally Posted by lanfear63

From the CDC website for the Flu in 2017 for the US, a representative year.

Number of deaths: 6,515
Deaths per 100,000 population: 2.0

Covid deaths 2020 so far: 186,917

Where is the argument, there is none.

Almost 190k out of 331,002,651, (current US population)...

0.00005% mortality rate from Covid.

https://percentagecalculator.net/

And l did a CDC run of the US last year, which was 34,200 deaths, from the flu.


So you have a valid point for the US, but AU, it doesn't gel.

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary

Love to see your link because that is way off from my link (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html) which says during the 2017 season about 61,000 died.

Mark

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/flu.htm Please correct me if I'm wrong

[lanfear63]

Originally Posted by lanfear63

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/flu.htm Please correct me if I'm wrong

Ok, looked at your link, rather contradictory? 61,000 according the chart, about a third of what Covid has ramped up.

[Mark Singletary]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

You are not taking into account that Covid isn't wildly infectious, otherwise, (as you have pointed out if it had infected over 300,000 the number of dead would be much higher).

So the Covid infection rate is much lower, but fatalities are higher, or in other words, let both go and run a comparison and the Flu is worse!

You changed your story. Originally you said

And sure the flu had two extra months added on, but even taking that away the common flu deaths is still way higher than Covid.

COVID, according to your numbers, kills 2.35% while the flu kills .26%.

Mark

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by 1Bryan

Hi,

You are using CFR and he is using IFR. IFR is agreed to most likely be around 1/10 to maybe even 1/15 of what CFR is because 80-90% of all Covid cases will NOT be confirmed by a lab.

The Sero testing in New York showed that.

This is why your numbers are high and his are lower. You are talking 2 different things -- CFR and IFR are not the same thing.

That was helpful, and answered some questions. Thanks.

[Odahh]

[quote=Kay King;11618449]

having large numbers of elderly obese people ..[/QUOT]


Nope - one thing I noticed living in states with high rates of obesity is that you don't see a lot of elderly obese people. Most don't live long enough to be elderly.

between 2013 and 2019 in the US about 28 percent of adults over 65 where classified as obese

[Claude Whitacre]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Almost 190k out of 331,002,651, (current US population)...

0.00005% mortality rate from Covid.

.

I'm not sure why you think that's valid.

99% of the people haven't been exposed to it yet.

This is the first year of this virus. My guess is that the first year the flu (or any strain) existed, very few people caught it. (as a percentage of population) It still has to run through the other 99% of the population for us to see the total mortality of the US.

Here's an analogy

If 100 people in the US are decapitated. What is the fatality rate of decapitation? Remember, only 100 out of 331 million are being decapitated. Is decapitation now less harmful, less risky, than the flu?

If you are being led up the steps to the guillotine, do you say "I'm not worried at all. After all, only 100 out of 331 million die this way. So the fatality rate is almost zero. I'll be fine."?

Originally Posted by Declan O Flaherty

The truth is, people who crash cars are more likely to die in a car crash.

Yes. But only the people who are actually in a car crash. People who are not in a car crash, are pretty well immune from dying in a car crash. The rate of mortality of Covid only applies to the people who actually have it.

Just as the rate of mortality of people who crash cars only applies to people who have crashed a car.

[Odahh]

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Almost 190k out of 331,002,651, (current US population)...

0.00005% mortality rate from Covid.

https://percentagecalculator.net/

And l did a CDC run of the US last year, which was 34,200 deaths, from the flu.


So you have a valid point for the US, but AU, it doesn't gel.

between now and mid march next year.. which will be 1 year of covid ..do we need to get up to a million total death n the US to say this is wrse than the flue .. or will 500k be enough .. once we get back into colder weather months and the typical cold and flue time of the year ..so how many american have to die before you accept it is a problem in America ..

the infection levels in the country may go up again and more people may die ..on a daily basis than are dying during the warm months of the year .. it will reall depend on how many people get dumped into the street from this eviction crisis that is ramping up ..

one thing the lockdowns did was allow the government to step in and get money to as many people as possible .. but because many people believe the probelm would be solved now and everyone would be going back to work and school and what ever normal was ..

instead those programs are running out and getting reduced and landlord are going bankrupt because many tenents have not paid in 5 months .. and many others just broke lease and left town ..