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Aweber is stressing me out

by matchoo77
31 replies
Ok so I've been using Aweber for almost 6 years now, with great success. But this new stringent requirements on spam complaints is something that is really putting a strain on my broadcast emails for the last few months...

I find myself hesitating to send out broadcast emails...and that is not good...that's where alot of new sales come in...and that's how I continue to bond with my list after they have been through the roster of follow up emails.

What really peeves me is that when I go through all the broadcast emails I sent out in 2008, 2009 and 2010, the spam complaint column is highlighted yellow for more than half of my broadcasts...although they were mostly all in the "acceptable" range back when I sent them....until now? Nope, now they all have the yellow "warning" highlight in the spam complaint column.

What the heck are they (aweber) thinking? Do they really want their customers to be hesitant to send out emails to their lists?

I just opened a Getresponse account...and am tinkering with it a little...will decide on whether to completely jump ship on Aweber in the next few weeks I suppose.
#aweber #stressing
  • Profile picture of the author TheSalesBooster
    Backup your list. Keep using aweber and if they have a problem just move your list somewhere else.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by matchoo77 View Post

    What the heck are they (aweber) thinking? Do they really want their customers to be hesitant to send out emails to their lists?
    Yes, they do.

    That's exactly what they want, for some of their subscribers.

    And as one of their other customers, I also want them to want customers with a history of spam problems to be hesitant to send emails out to their lists. The more strict they are, the happier I am. Otherwise (as many other autoresponders companies have found) their deliverability will decline, which damages their other customers and ultimately their own business.

    Originally Posted by matchoo77 View Post

    I just opened a Getresponse account...and am tinkering with it a little...will decide on whether to completely jump ship on Aweber in the next few weeks I suppose.
    I hear excellent things about GetResponse. My suspicion is that you'll find them no less strict than Aweber on any questions to do with potential spam, though. That's part of why these two companies have the "market leader" reputations they have.

    Do you really not see the inconsistency of your position, wanting them to deliver as high a proportion of your outgoing emails to people's inboxes as possible, while at the same time bemoaning their "stringent new requirements on spam complaints"?

    Sorry, I'm not trying to be impolite to you, but your reasoning reminds me of that of the people who say they want to get their articles syndicated, and then complain that Ezine Articles' editorial standards are "too stringent" for them to get them accepted there.
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    • Profile picture of the author matchoo77
      Alexa...

      What bothers me is the fact that they retroactively decided that my old broadcasts were in the "yellow zone"...while the vast majority were all in the "acceptable" range up until their latest little "upgrade".

      Seriously... what was wrong with having the 0.10% indicator?

      Now if I send an email out to a list of 15k subs, and it gets 10 complaints...I'm in the yellow zone...that is a .073% spam complaint ratio isn't it? (not a math major).

      I dunno...maybe I just needed to get this rant out of my system.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by matchoo77 View Post

        What bothers me is the fact that they retroactively decided that my old broadcasts were in the "yellow zone"...while the vast majority were all in the "acceptable" range up until their latest little "upgrade".
        Yes, I see that it's irritating, in a sense, that they moved the goalposts retrospectively, as it were. But there you have it: many people feel exactly the same about ClickBank suddenly holding their previous refunds against them, for their new system starting in January.

        We live in an age of increasing regulation, and so on, and for various reasons, many of the people on whom we depend to do business are getting stricter. Not because they want to, but because they have to. They're dependent on other people, themselves (Aweber are dependent on ISP's not blocking them for spam, and ClickBank are dependent on their upline financial institutions and so on). :p
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        • Profile picture of the author matchoo77
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          Yes, I see that it's irritating, in a sense, that they moved the goalposts retrospectively, as it were. But there you have it: many people feel exactly the same about ClickBank suddenly holding their previous refunds against them, for their new system starting in January.

          We live in an age of increasing regulation, and so on, and for various reasons, many of the people on whom we depend to do business are getting stricter. Not because they want to, but because they have to. They're dependent on other people, themselves (Aweber are dependent on ISP's not blocking them for spam, and ClickBank are dependent on their upline financial institutions and so on). :p
          The funny thing is that I use clickbank too, and I am in their "excellent" rating category as a vendor. Yet aweber is basically hassling me.

          You are spot on about the increasing regulation, I always wondered what that meant when I heard more regulation/less regulation on talk radio...as far as how it would affect micro-businesses like mine/99% of ppl on WF.

          Now I know.
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
        Originally Posted by matchoo77 View Post

        Alexa...

        What bothers me is the fact that they retroactively decided that my old broadcasts were in the "yellow zone"...while the vast majority were all in the "acceptable" range up until their latest little "upgrade".
        Yep, I agree that this kind of move is sly.

        Changes should apply only to forthcoming events.
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  • Profile picture of the author matchoo77
    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

    I'm always amazed when I receive hard selling emails in the IM niche sent from Aweber. It makes me wonder how they get past the spam complaints.

    Of course, you can always just set up like a year's worth of follow-ups and claim you didn't know they were too spammy in style because there is no reporting for follow-ups of how many people hit that button.

    Only downside is that they won't be time-sensitive.
    Haha I know right! How the frack these solo ad guys use aweber is BEYOND ME.

    Cool tip there bro.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill_Z
    I would just continue to market and back-up your lists. What good is having the lists if you are afraid to email them. When you use a third-party system like Aweber this is the risk you take. I use them too and I'm "in the yellow" sometimes as well but I don't let it affect what I do honestly.
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    I would let your subscribers know that they can opt out of your newsletter at anytime.

    Just include that in the first paragraph of each and every email.

    Everyone has SPAM complaints, even the gurus.

    It seems to me that there are professional people that all their job is to register with a lot of lists and then have the intentions to go to Aweber and complain. Maybe this is a conspiracy to get rid of email marketing.
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  • Profile picture of the author ezekielseo
    I have always stayed with getresponse, I love them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
    Is GetResponse the best alternative to Aweber?
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Dietriffic View Post

      Is GetResponse the best alternative to Aweber?
      It's certainly the only other one I'd be willing to use, myself. (To be honest, over the last few months I've gradually been beginning to wonder a little whether it might even be the other way round, i.e. that it might nowadays be Aweber that's "the best alternative to GetResponse". I'll certainly be using GetResponse, myself, the next time I start off a new list in a new niche. For what that's worth, coming from someone who has no experience of them yet. I have done a lot of research on this question, though. ).
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      • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        It's certainly the only other one I'd be willing to use, myself. (To be honest, over the last few months I've gradually been beginning to wonder a little whether it might even be the other way round, i.e. that it might nowadays be Aweber that's "the best alternative to GetResponse". I'll certainly be using GetResponse, myself, the next time I start off a new list in a new niche. For what that's worth, coming from someone who has no experience of them yet. I have done a lot of research on this question, though. ).
        I value your opinion, Alexa. Thank you.

        I was booted from Aweber the other day. They had asked us to implement some stuff like adding unsubscribe links at the top of emails, but over the holidays it was at the back of my mind and my business partner who handles this stuff was only back this week.

        Anyway, I'm now needing an alternative.

        I've spoken to Tom Kulzer to try to get a second chance probationary period and make some changes, but I don't think it's going to happen.
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    • Profile picture of the author talfighel
      Originally Posted by Dietriffic View Post

      Is GetResponse the best alternative to Aweber?
      I don't think that it is. They are both good.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Fleming
    Yet another example of why it's a good idea to host your own AR if
    you have even a small amount of technical inklings. When YOU are
    in control of your most valuable business asset instead of some
    faceless bureaucratic setup you can do as you please... within
    reason of course.

    I'm certainly not advocating spamming and from what you've posted it
    doesn't sound like you're even in the ballpark of spam.

    Hope things go better for you at GR... but I wouldn't hold my breath.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
      Originally Posted by Steve Fleming View Post

      Yet another example of why it's a good idea to host your own AR if
      you have even a small amount of technical inklings. When YOU are
      in control of your most valuable business asset instead of some
      faceless bureaucratic setup you can do as you please... within
      reason of course.

      I'm certainly not advocating spamming and from what you've posted it
      doesn't sound like you're even in the ballpark of spam.

      Hope things go better for you at GR... but I wouldn't hold my breath.

      Steve
      I can't speak for others, but I'm about as far away from a spammer as could be. My problem is having a niche of non-technically minded people.

      Anyway, since I've already got DAP, I've thought about using it to send emails. I'm just afraid of deliverability.

      Can you give any tips to hosting your own subscriber list using something like DAP?
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      • Profile picture of the author fluffythewondercat
        Originally Posted by Dietriffic View Post

        I can't speak for others, but I'm about as far away from a spammer as could be. My problem is having a niche of non-technically minded people.
        Aren't most niches made up of non-technically minded people?

        Are you saying that people are hitting the spam button rather than trying to locate the unsubscribe link?

        fLufF
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        • Profile picture of the author festi9
          Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

          Aren't most niches made up of non-technically minded people?

          Are you saying that people are hitting the spam button rather than trying to locate the unsubscribe link?

          fLufF
          --
          Yes this happens to me also my subscribers also does that but my spam complains are 10k:1 ratio so i don't worry about that for now
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  • Profile picture of the author napoleonfirst
    I think you should as them why they do this to you. If you are not satisfied with their anser, there are more options such as GetResponse, iContact and Constant Contact.
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  • Profile picture of the author radhika
    Can you give any tips to hosting your own subscriber list using something like DAP?
    I don't know what DAP means. But you can optimize your web site with SPF, DKIM, rDNS etc. Also optimize your autoresponder to improve your email deliverability.

    Hotmail and AOL are most troublesome email providers. Yahoo and couple of other email providers are more than ok to push legit email into your inbox.

    .
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    • Profile picture of the author ravijayagopal
      Originally Posted by Dietriffic View Post

      Anyway, since I've already got DAP, I've thought about using it to send emails. I'm just afraid of deliverability.

      Can you give any tips to hosting your own subscriber list using something like DAP?
      You could use DAP with Amazon SES for great deliverability.

      Originally Posted by radhika View Post

      I don't know what DAP means.
      DAP = DigitalAccessPass.com

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      • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
        Originally Posted by ravijayagopal View Post

        You could use DAP with Amazon SES for great deliverability.
        I just realised that SES was an option for DAP and was thinking about doing that Ravi, but would I be correct in saying you can't use DAP just as an email provider without having people as 'members' (with a password, etc)?

        I'm going to use DAP and SES for my membership site, but I'd maybe use it for my blog, too, if it was possible (however, it has over 16,000 subscribers).

        If it's not possible, I'm thinking of using Bypass Publisher or Sticky Worm along with Amazon SES.
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        • Profile picture of the author frankm
          Originally Posted by Dietriffic View Post

          I just realised that SES was an option for DAP and was thinking about doing that Ravi, but would I be correct in saying you can't use DAP just as an email provider without having people as 'members' (with a password, etc)?
          I was planning to use DAP with Amazon SES too but this would change that.

          So I can't have an optin form on a squeeze page with a long email series that would convince people to become a member?

          Thanks

          Frank
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          • Profile picture of the author ravijayagopal
            Frank,

            See my earlier response in this thread. You can create a list in DAP, and DAP also generates a free sign-up form for your web site that you can use to sign up subscribers to this list.

            And you can actually paste the DAP free signup form code into any of OptimizePress's Squeeze-page templates - the same place where you would copy/paste say, an Aweber sign up form.

            So front-end squeeze page formatting would be controlled by OptimizePress, and on the backend, you're actually adding them to a DAP list instead of an Aweber or GetResponse list.

            To further that thought, DAP allows you to do both as well - i.e., add them to an Aweber/MailChimp/GetResponse list AS WELL AS add them to DAP too.

            Originally Posted by frankm View Post

            I was planning to use DAP with Amazon SES too but this would change that.

            So I can't have an optin form on a squeeze page with a long email series that would convince people to become a member?

            Thanks

            Frank
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            • Profile picture of the author frankm
              Hi Ravi,

              Thanks for your reply, I'm happy to hear that

              Frank
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        • Profile picture of the author ravijayagopal
          Yes, you CAN use DAP as just a "list".

          Just don't send them a password, that's all! And use the welcome email to instead send them a thank-you note for "joining the list".

          So, the exact same DAP product now becomes a list, and you can sign up people for this list using the DAP Free Signup Form. Or you can also add them manually. You can even import external lists from other autoresponder services.

          And send them just autoresponder and broadcast emails.

          Add Amazon SES to the mix, and now DAP becomes a pretty darn good email service provider, with you having more control over your list than ever before.

          And then since they're already on that list, you can also deliver special content available to them at a later date - or not - totally up to you.

          And since it's all controlled by DAP, and you control DAP, you can decide whether the list is single- or double-optin, add and remove "subscribers" to your list, send them emails in HTML, even send them non-English emails, etc.

          Hope this helps.

          Originally Posted by Dietriffic View Post

          I just realised that SES was an option for DAP and was thinking about doing that Ravi, but would I be correct in saying you can't use DAP just as an email provider without having people as 'members' (with a password, etc)?

          I'm going to use DAP and SES for my membership site, but I'd maybe use it for my blog, too, if it was possible (however, it has over 16,000 subscribers).

          If it's not possible, I'm thinking of using Bypass Publisher or Sticky Worm along with Amazon SES.
          - Ravi Jayagopal
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  • Profile picture of the author zimzalabim
    I guess spam complaints/reports are something we have to live with if using Aweber etc. People will forget that they've subscribed and (I guess again.....) reach for the "report spam" link than simply unsubscribe.

    If it helps, something I always do with my various lists on Aweber when sending out an occasional follow-up or broadcast is to put right at the top of the email a reminder that they did subscribe, and when (name, date, email address, IP number etc) all of which can be done easily usingf the personalisation options/codes in your Aweber control panel.

    I also include a reminder that if they want to unsub, then there's a one-click link for that at the foot of the email.

    Not saying it's the answer to the woes of the world, though by including stuff like that "up front" before the meat of the email starts it should give the subscribers the comfort that it's all genuine and (hopefully) keep them subscribed or guide them to the unsubscribe link if they wat to get off rather than a click on the report spam link.

    Best,

    Andy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
      Originally Posted by zimzalabim View Post

      I guess spam complaints/reports are something we have to live with if using Aweber etc. People will forget that they've subscribed and (I guess again.....) reach for the "report spam" link than simply unsubscribe.

      If it helps, something I always do with my various lists on Aweber when sending out an occasional follow-up or broadcast is to put right at the top of the email a reminder that they did subscribe, and when (name, date, email address, IP number etc) all of which can be done easily usingf the personalisation options/codes in your Aweber control panel.

      I also include a reminder that if they want to unsub, then there's a one-click link for that at the foot of the email.

      Not saying it's the answer to the woes of the world, though by including stuff like that "up front" before the meat of the email starts it should give the subscribers the comfort that it's all genuine and (hopefully) keep them subscribed or guide them to the unsubscribe link if they wat to get off rather than a click on the report spam link.

      Best,

      Andy.
      Aweber booted me before I got the chance to implement changes like that, but I should have implemented it earlier.

      While I know I breeched their spam levels, I can't help but think they wanted an opportunity to get rid of me, since I was still on their old pricing structure. I was paying about $420/year for a combined number of over 25,000 emails (instead of their new pricing which would be about triple that amount).
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  • Profile picture of the author brentb
    If you really want to talk about unfair listen to this. One email list I have has about 100k people in it. They get emailed 2-3x per week for 2 years. One day, ONE SINGLE SUBSCRIBER, spammed every single email I ever sent to her over this whole time period. So my spam reports were 200+ one day ON TOP of what I normally get from people. The email company was super upset and paused the account (rightly so) but once we figured out what happened they just turned it back on since it wasn't my fault and I have lots of business with them besides the one list. But my emails didn't go out for 2 days and I had to deal with this... I was so mad!

    A few Email Companies I recommend as good guys to work with on email:
    Constant Contact
    SendGrid
    VerticalResponse
    InfusionSoft

    I don't recommend:
    Amazon SES

    and I have never used AWeber but they honestly seem like a huge pain so I personally would never sign up with them.
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