The problem with "dumbing down" the average internet marketer.

by Josh Anderson 14 replies
Simple is better right?

Not always.

The internet marketing and "make money on the net" niche is filled with illiteracy, laziness, and down right ignorance.

Many people write in their sales letters that that is a good thing.

They tell their clients that they can be illiterate and lazy stay in bed and be brain dead and run an internet business and make money...

And once in a blue moon they are right.

However, the majority of would be website business owners are stunting their own growth and progress because they have been taught that everything should be simple and that they should not have to do more than wiggle a pinky to create a website.

There are some things that if you want to accomplish them require knowledge, skill, and work to execute.

There is no easy button to becoming an astronaut and there is no easy button to becoming a Dr.

There are plenty of easy buttons for internet business but a refusal to become educated on some of the basic principles can inhibit true growth and massive success.

If you want to truly emulate the most successful you need to roll your sleeves up and learn a little html understand some basic principles of design, practice writing copy and joint venture proposals, understand what laws govern your business etc.

Or you have to hire someone to do all those things for you and then hope you can find someone smart enough to help you manage them.

I get too many dumb questions from the IM market... and I mean really dumb like "does html work with xsite pro?"

Stupid stuff.

Most of my clients are professionals outside of IM and many are pros inside IM but the "make money" crowd generated from IM's deviant work teaching people that lazy and stupid is ok is beyond comprehension.

In the US one of the biggest social issues is education... our society works hard to stress the value of knowledge.

Even those like me who learned most of what they know outside of formal education know the value of knowledge and specialized skills.

Math, Science, Medicine... there is no easy button...

Most people running successful businesses on the internet are not sitting in bed brain dead contrary to popular belief.

They study, learn, and apply specialized skills and knowledge.
#main internet marketing discussion forum #average #dumbing down #internet #marketer #problem
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  • Profile picture of the author MarkR
    Josh,

    You couldn't me more "right on!".

    Many IMrs develop sales pages or "train" their clients to believe in the "push button here to spew money" glory that "can" be IM. It is not the truth in the vast majority of cases.

    Much of my income comes from website development. I've learned over the years, that if my would-be clients think that they can pay me to put up a website and watch their PayPal grow, I respectfully decline their work. If they don't have (or pay me to develop) a well-constructed plan for traffic building, promotion, customer care, fulfillment, list building/marketing, etc. (whether self-delivered or outsourced), I walk away.

    We (IMrs) could be hurting ourselves by promoting the "push button" ease that this industry is touted to be sometimes.

    Great post.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Josh, I so want to believe what you are saying.

      And then I get emails like this...

      "Look, I don't have a lot of money or time. I just want a quick and easy way
      to make a few bucks online. I don't have time to learn all this crap. Just give
      me something where I can copy and paste some ads and push a few buttons.
      Thanks."

      Sure, I get some great emails too, emails from people who tell me that they're
      willing to do whatever it takes. But those are few and far in between.

      Maybe I just have to hang out with a higher class of prospect.
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      • Profile picture of the author mdunn123
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Josh, I so want to believe what you are saying.

        And then I get emails like this...

        "Look, I don't have a lot of money or time. I just want a quick and easy way
        to make a few bucks online. I don't have time to learn all this crap. Just give
        me something where I can copy and paste some ads and push a few buttons.
        Thanks."

        Sure, I get some great emails too, emails from people who tell me that they're
        willing to do whatever it takes. But those are few and far in between.

        Maybe I just have to hang out with a higher class of prospect.

        Steve...

        Don't even get me started on this one!!!! lol

        One reason why I just can't sell in the IM niche anymore, it just kept bothering me far too much.
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        • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
          What I also can't get over are the "I am on social security and am a newbie..." emails that go on to say things like "Is this something with someone who has a fixed income and limited skills can do?"

          I get a quite a few of those... people who wear their lifestyle on their sleeve and think that somehow their income effects their ability to succeed in life.

          Its as if they have already preconditioned themselves to thinking that they cannot get off Social Security and learn the kills necessary to become successful online.

          The answer to that kind of question is "yes" of course... there is no limit to what a person can accomplish if they just get off their butt and get over it.
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      • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


        Maybe I just have to hang out with a higher class of prospect.
        I think it's more that you have to remember that 80/20 holds true in every group. Thinking otherwise only leads to frustration.

        The great emails you get are from the 20% - let the 80% fend for themselves. You've offered, they've refused to take you up on it by listening and doing. Don't waste your time trying to 'reach' them -- you won't.
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        • Profile picture of the author Shannon Herod
          There is no easy button to becoming an astronaut and there is no easy button to becoming a Dr.

          Great news Josh!

          I have found that easy button...




          You are right though, I spent many nights and thousands of hours learning how to build websites and work in this business.

          Most people would have given up long before I even learned how to put a website up, but because of all the hours I put in learning I am much better off. In my opinion anyway.


          Shannon
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          • Profile picture of the author Simon_Sezs
            It actually happens here too. Just yesterday, someone asked how they could make $x,xxx in a month because they needed it to pay bills (which also means they probably don't have the money to invest in a business).

            My response sounded harsh but it was the only honest answer I could think of giving...

            "why not find a job and pay down that debt?"

            Now you would probably never hear someone say something like "I am about to be homeless and need to learn how to build a house in 30 days..can someone show me?"

            The same thing applies to building a business.

            The whole thing reminds me of when I used to teach guitar. I would show someone something simple and every once in a while, I would get a student who would make a statement like "I am going to be as good as you in a year". Never mind the fact that I had been playing guitar for 20+ years.

            For one reason or another, newbie marketers seem to think that building an online business and making money online is somehow easier than doing it offline. A business is a business regardless of the avenue and I don't think there is a way to knock some sense into these folks that are making these claims.

            Most people simply can't understand that in order to "make it" online, you need to work skillsets just like the offline world. In most cases, you would do a lot better if you have a business background to boot.

            Unfortunately, there is so much "how I made $xx,xxx in 30 days" products, that the average newbie thinks that it is just that easy.

            What makes it so irritating is that it is products like that that give IM a bad name and really "dumbs" down the process.
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            • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
              Hi Josh,

              This has bothered me too.

              I've always wanted to believe the best in people and that something as obvious as - continual education in the area you intend to create your success with (and success in general) is an obvious element of achieving what you want in life.

              However, you and I have witnessed the same things in many cases. I know you've been around in IM for a long time and I've always had you pegged as someone who is not an IMer but a person using IM as part of your plan for success.

              What we see to often though are people asking which particular activity they should decide is their business. It's why Bum Marketing is so popular, it's just one tiny part of what most people would consider normal online marketing for their business, but when you're after a one-stop magic solution it can sound good to believe that just picking one activity could be your entire plan.

              The problem is that there's no way to understand the precise relationship between your revenue and how you should spend time writing articles. That's why most people use it as a supplementary activity and not rely on it soley for their revenue.

              After a couple of years doing IM I went and studied marketing offline just so that I could compare what I had learned online (or thought I had learned) with what the educational system was teaching about the subject. There were a lot of differences.

              In order to be really successful in any business you need to be thinking ahead of the game and leading your business with new ways to provide the best you can in your industry.

              Josh - you're a great example of this happening in IM. The new products you've developed for audio and video are the result of you thinking ahead of the game and developing what people 'will' need rather than copying what they 'did' need.

              Steven - I know you think that you're doing people a favour when they say they want to make money online and they have no money or time.

              The short answer is - "then you're not ready to build a business that will be successful".

              By thinking that showing someone a bunch of activities that 'may' make a few bucks for them is the best thing for them - you're keeping them in the mindset that they don't need to come up with a proper solution for changing their life and that a half-assed approach is all that's required.

              If someone came to me and said that they were an experienced master chef but they desperately needed money - I could tell them to go and work in McDonalds, it's a no-brainer easy way to get some quick money coming in and anyone can do it. However, it would probably be better advice to appreciate their skills and contact some good hotels and restaurants and find a more professional position that fully rewards their skills and knowledge and offers prospects that are in-line with their goals.

              You know the old saying about teaching a man to fish rather than giving him a fish - this is very similar. You can throw someone a fish but you're ultimately not helping them. They may not care at that time, but if YOU know that it's not the best thing for them to get them what they're really trying to get, is it still the best answer?


              Andy
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              nothing to see here.

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              • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
                Josh

                I must disagree. It is push-button simple.

                Simply push the button below many times, and someone will get rich.



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                Disclaimer: In my upcoming project with James B Allen, I did write last night about using the kitchen table and what a non-efficient way of running your business that is. You do need to set up a serious biz.

                EDIT: The word came to me. "Debunking" Last night I wrote a part of our book debunking the "make money from your kitchen table" myth. I have always believed that you must treat your home-based business as a real business. Build an office space in a spare room, set your schedule, and that four-letter word "work". There is nothing wrong with work, and when you build your own business you benefit from that work. So roll up your sleeves.

                Or push my PayPal button ;-)
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                Kevin Riley, Kevin Riley Publishing, Osaka, Japan


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                • Profile picture of the author LB
                  Well...if I may be contrarian here... (I know, me?)

                  I think the reason a lot of people fail is that they make things TOO complicated.

                  Selling stuff online is actually in essence very simple at its core. It's all about getting leads and exchanging value for value. (i.e. their money for your products)

                  People overcomplicate it by trying to buy the latest Adwords Smasher ebooks, one-time offer scripts, video widgets, blog pinger, widget waxer...etc. Meanwhile, they've never mastered the basics.

                  I would argue that it's not that people want "simple" it's that people want "lazy".

                  Digging a ditch is very "simple" but it still requires you pick up the shovel and break ground (and a sweat).

                  Creating sites and selling products is easier now than it's ever been. The majority though over-complicate things trying to "make" it work. In fact, I would bet many of the great posters here on the WF that are struggling are over-thinking the whole thing trying to keep up with the "latest" tricks out there rather than just setting up the basics and working on driving traffic and selling products.
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                  • Andy Henry

                    After a couple of years doing IM I went and studied marketing offline just so that I could compare what I had learned online (or thought I had learned) with what the educational system was teaching about the subject. There were a lot of differences.

                    In order to be really successful in any business you need to be thinking ahead of the game and leading your business with new ways to provide the best you can in your industry.

                    When I was a Restaurant Manager for one corporation, one book the higher ups talked about a lot was a book called "Built to Last". The book showed how the most successful companies were the ones who were able to grow and change with the times. Those that weren't able to adjust were left behind. It was a pretty interesting theory.
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                • Profile picture of the author MizzCindy
                  Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

                  Disclaimer: In my upcoming project with James B Allen, I did write last night about using the kitchen table and what a non-efficient way of running your business that is. You do need to set up a serious biz.

                  EDIT: The word came to me. "Debunking" Last night I wrote a part of our book debunking the "make money from your kitchen table" myth. I have always believed that you must treat your home-based business as a real business. Build an office space in a spare room, set your schedule, and that four-letter word "work". There is nothing wrong with work, and when you build your own business you benefit from that work. So roll up your sleeves.

                  Or push my PayPal button ;-)
                  OK, Kevin, I had to chuckle at your post.

                  I have a business plan. I have spent the last 8 months planning an 'education trajectory' (figuring out exactly what skills I need and then systematically learning them), I have a very strict budget and I am now taking action. I have very specific goals set to a timeline (so there is accountability). I am building a longterm, sustainable business.

                  I'm doing all this at my kitchen table...

                  Cindy
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      • I hear you, Steven. I "hang out" on forums like this one where most people post in an extremely intelligent way. Then, I read another (hugely popular) IM forum where questions like:

        Is there a trick to getting people to click on my ads?
        Are answered by long-term posters with posts like:

        G not allowed you trick.
        This is from someone who has supposedly already been working in IM for some time! It's no wonder many things in IM are "dumbed down".


        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Josh, I so want to believe what you are saying.

        And then I get emails like this...

        "Look, I don't have a lot of money or time. I just want a quick and easy way
        to make a few bucks online. I don't have time to learn all this crap. Just give
        me something where I can copy and paste some ads and push a few buttons.
        Thanks."

        Sure, I get some great emails too, emails from people who tell me that they're
        willing to do whatever it takes. But those are few and far in between.

        Maybe I just have to hang out with a higher class of prospect.
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  • Profile picture of the author Clare Moser
    Josh,

    You couldn't be more right. There CAN be ways to be lazy by working smarter and there's always easier ways to do things. But if you don't have the specialized knowledge to understand the things your trying to simplify then you'll never be able to do it.

    Internet Marketing is like a learned trade just like any other specialized skill or trade you would study or go to school for. It takes a lot of time and effort to get to that level from apprentice to foreman.

    As Josh said you don't just wake up one day and become doctor.

    Well said Josh!
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