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CLICKBANK : or How to STAY Newbie For a Long Time

by Paul Tai
52 replies
I think the title says it all.

Now, it's cool to start with clickbank... because, any money is good, when you're just starting out. They get 10%? No big deal, right?

Here is my current frustration with Clickbank :

- Too Many JUNKY affiliates, are getting HALF of my money

How? They have hundreds of websites, youtube videos, article sites, review sites... to do What?

To "promote" my product as a 5 stars product... and screw me out of half my money.

Why is this unfair? Here is how it works

1. Because people don't buy because they found me through the affiliate... they find me first THEN go to google to find out what people are saying about the product...

2. Google shows them these junky "review" sites, that tell them it's a great product, and "CLICK HERE" to download... Well that's an Junk-affiliate link.

3. The buyer is redirected to my sales page (again),... and decides to buy... and rather than me getting the money (I'm the one that got that traffic in the first place, not the stupid affiliate site)... the robotic affiliate get half the money.


Long story short, not only am I paying CB 10%,... I'm also losing HALF of what's left on MANY of my sales...

Bottom line: Clickbank is not a long term solution, it's only for newbies... and it can KEEP you from going to the next level...

YOU LOSE SO MUCH MONEY, IT'S SO FRUSTRATING.

Ok, I'm done venting.

Did this happen to you?
#clickbank #long #newbie #stay #time
  • Profile picture of the author CalinDan
    Build a list and all these frustrations will go away. I promise!

    When you build a list and develop a good relationship with your subscribers, your word will the only pre-sell they need in order to make a decision. They will never search for another review again.

    I'm sorry you feel this way about Clickbank, but affiliates and JVs are the foundation of this platform; it's what Clickbank is based on.

    If you feel you can drive enough traffic by yourself, go to JVZoo and select the option "Do not accept affiliates" and get 100% of the profits directly into your PayPal account.

    Cheers mate!
    Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author areoo
    I share your frustration. But i think this saying will help

    Dont FALL IN LOVE WITH YOUR PRODUCT!

    hope you get it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
      Originally Posted by Paul Tai View Post

      They get 10%?
      Not quite. It's 7.5% plus one dollar

      Originally Posted by Paul Tai View Post

      - Too Many JUNKY affiliates, are getting HALF of my money
      You can use the Affiliate 'Whitelist' feature which allows
      you to manually approve affiliates.

      .
      Signature
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      • Profile picture of the author BrianCampbelldotcom
        There's another way to look at it. When people go to one of the review sites that you mentioned it does add credibility to and convince people to buy your product.

        The fact that you have a bunch of review sites promoting your CB product is also partially responsible for some of the direct traffic you get. People may find you through google, but it is also because these other sites promote you.

        I think having affiliates and paying commissions is a good thing. You don't have to pay commissions through clickbank, you could turn it down to 25% or even 0%. Of course when the affilate sites figure it out, they won't be happy.

        As far as the leakage from your advertising, there really isn't a way around it if you're offering it on clickbank. You could use Nanacast if you want to prevent your customers from getting a commission just on buying your product, Nanacast prevents this. You could also use idevaffiliate and require people to apply to be your affiliate (i.e. you could make sure they at least have a website within your niche).

        I hope some of the solutions help. There isn't necessarily a perfect one. There are pros and cons of each. I use Nanacast.
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    The affiliates are speaking well about your product helping to make the sale. Get a grip, for real.

    Without affiliates no one would be interested in your product.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
      Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

      The affiliates are speaking well about your product helping to make the sale. Get a grip, for real.

      Without affiliates no one would be interested in your product.
      I would not agree with what you are saying, that without affiliates no one would be interested in someones product, thats giving the affiliate waaay to much credibility.

      I would say this though.

      Without a product and without vendors there would be no need for affiliates. Affiliates would not even exist.

      The product vendor is in charge, is the most important part of the equation. If they did not exist, no one could siphon money off of them.
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  • Profile picture of the author ReveryMarketing
    I personally love the model. I make sites that convert, my affiliate push the hell out of them.

    Grow your affiliate list and now every time you make a site all you have to do is click send to that list and watch the birth of a new sales funnel in days.

    Rinse repeat, rinse repeat, rinse repeat, rinse repeat, rinse repeat!
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      I confess I have some difficulty understanding your perspective, here.

      It was your decision to list your product on ClickBank, to offer 50% commissions and to accept affiliates "automatedly" (i.e. without whitelisting them). You can change or cancel any/all of these things whenever you want. I can't help thinking it seems a bit rich to be complaining about the effects of all these things, in those circumstances?

      I certainly don't agree with your perspective about ClickBank being "only for newbies". It's one of the most proven, consistent ways there's ever been to earn money online: it's been established even longer than Google and has paid out well over $2-Billion in client earnings. Many of the most successful internet marketers ever are using it in the long term as their only and/or primary business model.

      To judge by your perceptions of the situation, you feel that your affiliates are costing you money? But for that impression to be valid, those would have to be sales which, in the absence of affiliates, you'd bring in yourself, as the vendor. If that's the case, just get rid of the affiliates and sell it yourself instead?
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      • Profile picture of the author Manie Amari
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        I confess I have some difficulty understanding your perspective, here.

        It was your decision to list your product on ClickBank, to offer 50% commissions and to accept affiliates "automatedly" (i.e. without whitelisting them). You can change or cancel any/all of these things whenever you want. I can't help thinking it seems a bit rich to be complaining about the effects of all these things, in those circumstances?

        I certainly don't agree with your perspective about ClickBank being "only for newbies". It's one of the most proven, consistent ways there's ever been to earn money online: it's been established even longer than Google and has paid out well over $2-Billion in client earnings. Many of the most successful internet marketers ever are using it in the long term as their only and/or primary business model.

        To judge by your perceptions of the situation, you feel that your affiliates are costing you money? But for that impression to be valid, those would have to be sales which, in the absence of affiliates, you'd bring in yourself, as the vendor. If that's the case, just get rid of the affiliates and sell it yourself instead?
        Eloquently put^^^^

        Paul clearly doesn't know what he is talking about. More to the point he's perspective is a reflection on the mindset discussed within his post of the people identified during the slander fest.

        Stop thinking like a newbie Paul and man up!

        Manie
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  • Profile picture of the author AT-Copy
    If you think about it, the visitors saw your sales page and it didn't convince them to buy. They then searched on Google, an affiliate pre-sold your sales page to get them interested enough and then they bought your product.

    If the visitor searched on Google and there were no affiliates (so no reviews) he'd probably just find a link straight back to your sales page. Without any extra motivation to buy he'll probably leave forever.

    Your affiliates are doing much more than you think in the sales process you describe.
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  • Profile picture of the author importavip
    They take 10% commission from affiliate, or they charge affiliate commission plus 10% clickbank commission?
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by importavip View Post

      They take 10% commission from affiliate, or they charge affiliate commission plus 10% clickbank commission?
      Neither.

      They take 7.5% of the retail price, plus $1 per item ("stocking fee"). They then divide the balance between the vendor and the affiliate in the proportions specified by the vendor. The "7.5% + $1" averages out at about 9% of the retail price. ClickBank is a retailer, not just a payment processor. What's left after deducting that is the wholesale price, which is what's then divided between vendors and affiliates without further deductions.

      All explained here, with examples: Earning Commissions and Getting Paid
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    • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
      Originally Posted by importavip View Post

      They take 10% commission from affiliate, or they charge affiliate commission plus 10% clickbank commission?
      ClickBank deducts 7.5% plus one dollar.

      The remainder is shared between vendor and affiliate according to the commission split


      UPDATE: posted at same time as Alexa above
      .
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  • Profile picture of the author Hilal
    Paul, There is a better way.

    The more affiliates you'll have, the more you'll sell.

    The best point here is, you'll have a good list of REAL BUYERS.

    Now, you'll promote other people (but very related) products to your list.

    This way, you're on the seat of affiliates to make good money all the time.

    BTW, sorry, I don't agree with the idea of reducing commission. The more commission you'll give to affiliates, the more sales you'll get, the more buyers in your list.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Paul Tai View Post

    I think the title says it all.

    Now, it's cool to start with clickbank... because, any money is good, when you're just starting out. They get 10%? No big deal, right?

    Here is my current frustration with Clickbank :

    - Too Many JUNKY affiliates, are getting HALF of my money

    How? They have hundreds of websites, youtube videos, article sites, review sites... to do What?

    To "promote" my product as a 5 stars product... and screw me out of half my money.

    Why is this unfair? Here is how it works

    1. Because people don't buy because they found me through the affiliate... they find me first THEN go to google to find out what people are saying about the product...

    2. Google shows them these junky "review" sites, that tell them it's a great product, and "CLICK HERE" to download... Well that's an Junk-affiliate link.

    3. The buyer is redirected to my sales page (again),... and decides to buy... and rather than me getting the money (I'm the one that got that traffic in the first place, not the stupid affiliate site)... the robotic affiliate get half the money.


    Long story short, not only am I paying CB 10%,... I'm also losing HALF of what's left on MANY of my sales...

    Bottom line: Clickbank is not a long term solution, it's only for newbies... and it can KEEP you from going to the next level...

    YOU LOSE SO MUCH MONEY, IT'S SO FRUSTRATING.

    Ok, I'm done venting.

    Did this happen to you?


    That whole comment is delusional & the very reason CB blows (I'm being nice).

    You obviously have no clue whatsoever what role an affiliate serves. You want an affiliate to drive traffic to your sales page & F the affiliate out of a commission, yep, that's the whole CB mindset I know.

    Instead of F-ing your affiliates, help them improve.

    These are the types of greedy people that make me happy I dumped CB, each time I think CB couldn't get worse I see these types of threads pop up.

    My advice to any & all affiliates, stay away from CB.
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  • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
    Hi Paul

    I don't agree with you at all. Even if the buying process is as you describe, those affiliates still got you the sale. They recommended your product at the point where someone was looking for an opinion.

    It also seems to me that you could solve your problem very easily by either adjusting your commission rate or removing your product from the CB marketplace.

    Will
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  • Profile picture of the author Confined To Life
    This is a terrible thread. ClickBank is excellent.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Confined To Life View Post

      This is a terrible thread. ClickBank is excellent.

      It does prove CBs position on allowing any half wit with $50 to sell whatever they want.

      CB created their own mess, they should learn how a real affiliate/vendor business operates & take a few notes from Envato. CB has zero quality control.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        CB has zero quality control.
        Quite some exaggeration here, Yukon! Their previous history on this front is certainly nothing to be proud of at all, but over the last few months they - like some of their competitors, and for the same reasons, I think - have actually made considerable progress, in response to the hardening regulatory climate.

        Ironically, at exactly the same time as you're accusing them of having "zero" quality control, Warriors are increasingly recounting that ClickBank is rejecting their new products and/or sales pages, which are accepted elsewhere, on quality control grounds. What does that tell you?

        A couple of years ago, I'd have been close to agreeing with your assertion above (as many others were, too). This view is now just plain out of date. Sorry.

        They seem to be getting better at applying "quality control" to newly-listed products, but not improving much on the backlog of previously accepted products and sales-pages which are clearly non-FTC-compliant. I suspect, myself, that the well-known and easily verifiable reliability and integrity of their 60-day money-back guarantee makes them a little less subject to "interfering regulators" than would otherwise be the case. I don't suggest that's "good", or "bad": that's just how it is, I think. But "zero quality control" is dramatically overstating it: in reality (especially regarding newer products) they compare favorably, in this regard, with several others.
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      • Profile picture of the author Gavin Stephenson
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        It does prove CBs position on allowing any half wit with $50 to sell whatever they want.

        CB created their own mess, they should learn how a real affiliate/vendor business operates & take a few notes from Envato. CB has zero quality control.
        CB quality control has improved significantly, so much so they are a pain in the ass to get approved with. It's all worth it in the end I guess as long as you can get your copy to convert in balance with their rules.

        It's been a year since they have improved there quality control so I think your comment is outdated.
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    • Profile picture of the author celente
      Originally Posted by Confined To Life View Post

      This is a terrible thread. ClickBank is excellent.
      you are correct 120% sir.

      I make my living with clickbank and other similar networks.

      Those whiney babies like the OP, are the guys who

      1) pick a crap product

      2) write one article and expect to make 18 sales the next day.

      3) Do not research keywords.

      4) spend basically 0 time to see what their competitors are doing or where they are getting their backlinks from.

      5) is the worst, they come in here crying the IM is crap, and clickbank is crap.

      Get a clue like the rest of us OP. Clickbank is good, if you put the hard work in, use proper traffic sources...and treat it like a business.

      Oh....and if you are not building a list selling clickbank stuff, well they should you should just give up and start collecting social security checks.

      RANT OVER....:p
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      • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
        While I don't personally agree with the original poster's opinion, he's entitled to it.

        If he really feels the way he says he can:

        - He can avoid paying his affiliates at all by setting his commission rate to 0% (if ClickBank allows that for an existing vendor account), or failing that as low as possible.

        - He then pays just ClickBank's charges. And if he feels they are too much, he is free to seek an alternative payment system, such using his own merchant account.

        If the original poster really feels this way, I suggest he try these things. It would be interesting for him to come back in a few months and tell us what effect these changes had on his business.
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        • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
          Originally Posted by SunilTanna View Post

          - He can avoid paying his affiliates at all by setting his commission rate to 0% (if ClickBank allows that for an existing vendor account), or failing that as low as possible.
          The minimum is 1%

          .
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          • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
            Ha ha, I was waiting for you to chip in!

            One of my ClickBank vendor accounts was opened in March 2001. That account (until last week) was set to 0%, and yes it was active and able to sell.

            Last week I changed it to 50%, so I tried changing it back today - so you're right (of course) - you can't alter it below 1%, although it does seem a legacy account could remain at 0%.
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            • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
              Originally Posted by SunilTanna View Post

              Ha ha, I was waiting for you to chip in!

              One of my ClickBank vendor accounts was opened in March 2001. That account (until last week) was set to 0%, and yes it was active and able to sell.

              Last week I changed it to 50%, so I tried changing it back today - so you're right (of course) - you can't alter it below 1%, although it does seem a legacy account could remain at 0%.
              Here is the history behind this.

              Way back in 2004 at my forum there was a discussion about the possibility of vendors changing the commission rate to zero for random periods during the day in order to steal the commission from the affiliate as this could not be detected.

              I suggested that the minimum rate should be 1% so that an affiliate would be able to see the small commission in his account and be able to query it.

              .
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  • Profile picture of the author getrichinfo
    Hi paul! Just a question for you,

    would you rather not accept any affiliates and create hundreds of websites, youtube videos, article sites, review sites to promote your own product and earn 100% of the money or let those affiliates creates those sites and promote YOUR product and you earn 50% of the money? Think about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jackson Tan
    I am slightly confused here.. you are saying you are losing money for using clickbank? still don't get it.. I thought affiliates are here to help you earn more money and in return sharing profits with them? Not anymore??

    To Your Fun & Freedom
    Jackson
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  • Profile picture of the author Gavin Stephenson
    I'd have to agree with Alexa Smith on this one.

    To be honest I think your thinking to small and it sounds as if you're not making much which is why you are complain about giving away money. There are many marketers that don't even give a rats ass about the money they make from there front end product or UPSELLS even..

    All they care about is the backend profits, Presale list, buyers list and webinar profits and that's why you see a lot below par products on CB.

    If you had a super affiliate sending you 100 sales a day you would not be complaining at all.

    I think you need to boaden your horizon, CB has made plenty of millionaires and it's not for newbies at all in my opinion. WSO's are for newbies in regards to the IM niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    Originally Posted by Paul Tai View Post

    I think the title says it all.


    - Too Many JUNKY affiliates, are getting HALF of my money
    That is a good thing. People are recommending your product and making you more money. I can't believe that you are not happy with that.

    Originally Posted by Paul Tai View Post

    How? They have hundreds of websites, youtube videos, article sites, review sites... to do What?
    You are very lucky to even get people doing this for you. Would you be able to share how much money you earned from these affiliates alone in the past year?


    Originally Posted by Paul Tai View Post

    1. Because people don't buy because they found me through the affiliate... they find me first THEN go to google to find out what people are saying about the product...
    That is very common of people to do. They want to get more info about your product and when they make the decision to buy even if it is from another affiliate, that is a good things and more money into your pocket.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Well, the irony of this thread is that it's written from a newbie perspective.

      To say the OP is misinformed about the advantages of CB would be putting it
      mildly. I personally don't rely on CB as a vendor because I never relied on
      affiliates. But IF you know how to recruit affiliates, and have the time and desire
      to do so, CB can be a virtual gold mine.

      My first CB product, back in 2006, sold 200 copies a month.

      Why?

      Because of ONE affiliate that sold 100 a month.

      Newbie. Yeah, that's kind of ironic to say the least given the nature of this
      thread starter.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Another "problem" where the solution is right in front of you. Here it is:

    Offer no commission and you'll get no affiliates promoting your product. Issue solved.

    End of rant.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      Another "problem" where the solution is right in front of you. Here it is:

      Offer no commission and you'll get no affiliates promoting your product. Issue solved.

      End of rant.
      I have actually done that with my remaining CB products, which also discourages
      buying through their own affiliate link.

      Like I said, don't care about affiliates anymore. The domains I ended up
      blacklisted because of affiliates made me realize that, unless I have a closed
      in house program, I'm opening myself up to all the idiots who just spam the
      hell out of the Internet.

      I no longer have that problem.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        You can choose to whitelist affiliates there, Steven, you know? And accept only the ones you know and trust ... "just saying".
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  • Profile picture of the author ceenote100
    Half money is better than no money. If you want the whole pie then bake it yourself.
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  • Profile picture of the author qsilver
    I don't understand why your complaining about giving half the sale to an affiliate.

    I know of several marketers that will give 100% commissions to affiliates, then the product creator makes money on the back end sales and future sales.

    What's not to like?
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  • Profile picture of the author Vikram73
    The problem with the spammy reviews goes away as your product gains reputation and attracts better affiliates.

    The spammier reviews just get buried in the search engines.

    Do you really want affiliates?

    If not, Paypal is a much better option :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author RonnyRaygun
    Originally Posted by Paul Tai View Post


    Long story short, not only am I paying CB 10%,... I'm also losing HALF of what's left on MANY of my sales...
    If you're so concerned about not making enough money, why not double the price?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dariuszden
    I don't get your frustration at all.

    You have so many other options other than clickbank, use it!

    Also I wouldn't call clickbank vendors that make +1m a year...newbies, but that's just me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Birdi
      I have to agree with alexa smith...

      Clickbank can be a good place to make money online...

      Getting affiliates to do all the work for you is like having a team of sales people making those sales for you and you paying them, but in the long term those customers are worth it because they begin to trust your brand/company and end up buying from you regularly.

      I agree with manie in that your mind set has to change, it's worth sacrificing some of your profits in order to build long term profits (if that makes sense) ...

      Birdi

      p.s. also look outside of clickbank aswell there's opportunities outside of it...
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  • Profile picture of the author thetrafficguy2
    I make 80% of my money with clickbank and have been doing it a long time. If you use it right theres lots of money to be made.
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  • Profile picture of the author Anton543
    Yep, its called preselling. You could be the first person to land someone to a merchant site but that person won't be satisfied until he/she is 'sold' to. It doesn't matter much if the review is neutral or not, they just want someone, anyone, to tell them its good.
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  • Profile picture of the author MrDay
    Stop using Clickbank!

    Problem solved.

    Did you know that just about every single Guru or Top Internet marketer uses CB or has in the past?

    CB only for newbies, meh... is this your first product?
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  • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
      Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post

      I think this thread should be locked and throw the key into a garbage disposal. It makes me sick when someone starts a thread and doesn't have the decency to get involved in the discussion of their own thread.
      Well hold on. It's not as if he's gone missing for two weeks.
      It's only 14 hours.


      .
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  • Profile picture of the author Vikram73
    I don't agree with the OP but I think I know what's setting him off.

    If you release a product into the CB marketplace you are hoping to get quality affiliates or just using CB as a payment processor. In some niches - you'll find it easy to get affiliates. In others you've got to really bust your rump to get them.

    What you will get (no matter what) with your new product is a lot of "review sites" that just grab the RSS feed from ClickBank's marketplace and spin your sales copy into something awful. When your "product + review" shows up in Google you'll be taken to a crappy article with spun content or content ripped straight off from your site.

    The whole thing looks obviously automated and is just there to intercept some SEO traffic and get sales without adding value.

    Right now there's a YouTube video of my CB product ranking on page 1 and the guy is just reviewing the sales page. He's not actually reviewing the product - he made 2 sales today just by getting a 4 minute video ranked in YouTube.

    Funny stuff - he just shows up in Google and starts making money for doing nothing (and this is doing nothing IMO - if you're going to get a review ranked at least put some effort into it).

    Using the whitelist is great but then that cuts you off from the rest of the marketplace.

    ClickBank needs to be a bit more selective about letting affiliates in. Shareasale does some checks to make sure the affiliate is at least clueful enough to have their own domain. Some CPA networks require you to talk to them on the phone.

    I'd love to see CB do some basic qualification of the affiliates they let in. I think it might make their lives easier too.
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  • Profile picture of the author Anonymous Affiliate
    If I understand you correctly, your problem is not with Clickbank but with affiliates ranking for keywords related to your product name with "review" sites (mostly fake review sites), meaning affiliates who do not generate fresh traffic to your site, but simply close the sale for you.

    Is that correct? If so, I understand how you feel and it's a topic that's been brought up by many product vendors. In fact, many vendors don't allow these type of "review" sites among their affiliates.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Tai
    COME ON...

    I'm not talking about REAL affiliates. (I know some of you here DID get the point).

    For others, I'm talking about *junk* affiliate sites... think CB-engine, CB-analytics,... want to have a better idea? Type any CB product in Google with the word "download"... and see what happens.

    These sites are AUTOMATIC and are like ROBOTS that make money for some people JUST because you're listed on CB.

    They're not doing ANY work.

    Anyway, someone said that this is proof that my sales page didn't do the trick and that the review sites made the sale. This is surprising. Do you EVER buy something on the web before Googling it? I don't. Even Amazon, you do a search on real books before you buy them, right?

    Long story short, don't feel offended, if you're a *real* person that promotes *real* people's products... because I'm not talking about you.

    I have real affiliates on the other hand. And they get their share of the money every time. And I'm happy to share the profits with them. Because that just gets the deal stronger.

    CB has zero quality control, I agree.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Tai
    About Whitelisting...

    It makes the deal worse, here is why...

    1. People still go to the fake review sites
    2. when they click on the affiliate link, CB shows them an error message saying "this affiliate is not allowed to yada yada yada..."

    Put yourself in the shoes of the customer... would you buy a product after having gone through such an experience? First you find it reviewed by a junky looking site, then you get an error message... would you put your CC info after going through that?

    I don't think so...

    CB is for newbies I think.


    Actually, some people are very happy to see how many "affiliates" are promoting their products. Lol... that's so unreal.

    Some of them have 80% of their sales made by affiliates... and when you dig deeper, you find that they have no direct contact with affiliates (they let it be done by itself, and focus on SEO...) Wow... that's EXACTLY how to stay a Newbie for a LONG time.
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