Illegal Paypal payments... Anyone know why?

21 replies
I have had a few unauthorised payment charges on Paypal for one of
my WSO's. I'm sure this is nothing new to most who have sold a
product before.

At first I was upset thinking that it was a way for some to try and get
around the Paypal policy of not refunding for a digital product, which
was unnecessary anyway because there is a No Questions Asked refund
offered on the WSO and it is stated on my Paypal account when they try
to file a claim.

I wrote to a couple of these people and asked why they would claim it is
unauthorised when they had to first log into the Warrior Forum in order to
make the purchase.

I was not prepared for the response I received, which was...

"What is the Warrior Forum, I have never heard of it?"

That totally threw me.

When the purchase is made, the product is only sent to the email address
registered with Paypal.

I am baffled by this and am trying to understand why someone would steal
a card and then buy something that only the card holder will receive. What
is the purpose or benefit to the thief?

Can anyone shed some light on this. It is very upsetting for all parties
involved.

Thanks,
Angela
#illegal #payments #paypal
  • Profile picture of the author erwin78
    Hi everyone,

    To be honest I've never had such a case but I don't sell much via WF. But thanks for the info it is very valuable.
    I hope it won't happen much more.

    All the best for you and I hope next time you will have a better news for us. Only the good news becaues there are enough bad things around.

    Erwin
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  • Profile picture of the author RobinInTexas
    You don't have to be a member of the warrior forum to buy a wso.

    Possibly someone could have purchased using a "guest" account at payPal.

    If your product shows up in a Google search

    HOW TO MAKE IPHONE, ANDROID, KINDLE GAME APPS - Google Search

    they might come to your sales page and not realize they are on the warrior forum
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    ...Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just set there.
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  • Profile picture of the author noangel
    Thanks Robin,

    I stand corrected there.

    It still doesn't explain why someone would purchase something
    only the actual card holder, or Paypal account holder will receive.

    I am trying to make sense of this.

    Angela
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    • Profile picture of the author RogueOne
      Originally Posted by noangel View Post

      Thanks Robin,

      I stand corrected there.

      It still doesn't explain why someone would purchase something
      only the actual card holder, or Paypal account holder will receive.

      I am trying to make sense of this.

      Angela
      Are you using affiliates? Do you allow instant payments?
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by noangel View Post

      Thanks Robin,

      I stand corrected there.

      It still doesn't explain why someone would purchase something
      only the actual card holder, or Paypal account holder will receive.

      I am trying to make sense of this.

      Angela
      Often the card holder and the paypal owner are not the same. This happened to me when I used an affiliate platform and allowed affiliates to promote my product. Two of the affiliates were crooks, resulting in 6 chargebacks to my account. They buy your product using their paypal acct and a stolen credit card. They get the commission and empty out their account real fast so that you can't recover the commission. Then you are left with the chargeback and chargeback fees when the owner of the stolen credit card sees the charge.

      Put all affiliates on delayed payments. I have now just eliminated all affiliates. It's actually not worth it for me. Too much stress when those chargebacks hit my account.

      EDIT: Out of a lot of affiliates, there was only a very small portion of them that actually sent any traffic or sales to my offer and two of them were criminals.
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  • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
    You don't need to be a member to purchase. I wonder if this is a "test" payment, made in the hope that it won't trigger the card issuer's anti-fraud software.

    When my card details were stolen a couple of years ago, they were used to make two payments of £10 each to Orange (Uk mobile phone provider). This triggered my bank's anti-fraud protection.

    The bank told me they use these payments as tests to see if the card details are still active.
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    • Profile picture of the author aarthielumalai
      Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

      You don't need to be a member to purchase. I wonder if this is a "test" payment, made in the hope that it won't trigger the card issuer's anti-fraud software.

      When my card details were stolen a couple of years ago, they were used to make two payments of £10 each to Orange (Uk mobile phone provider). This triggered my bank's anti-fraud protection.

      The bank told me they use these payments as tests to see if the card details are still active.
      Yes, the same happened to us. The person who stole the credit card details first made a test payment for $1 and then for $999! The dispute is still going on. We ended up cancelling the card. The same might have happened in your case, or maybe they created a paypal account and added this person's credit card to that paypal account to make the payment? I'm not entirely sure of this, as it can't be done for Indian paypals, but I heard it's pretty lenient for the other countries?

      Anyway, I'm really sorry this happened to you, and hope you get things sorted out soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author noangel
    @RogueOne... Yes and Yes.

    Is this a problem?
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
      Originally Posted by noangel View Post

      @RogueOne... Yes and Yes.

      Is this a problem?
      Yep. That is why someone would do that.

      Picture this:

      An affiliate (scammer) uses stolen cards to make sales, gaining their instant commissions (legal cash).

      The actual card holder realizes the card info was stolen & files chargebacks - leaving you out of the cash for the product sale AND the commission you paid to the affiliate.

      Blacklist/un-approve that affiliate, and file disputes for any payments sent to them.

      Maybe you get it back, maybe not. But learn your lesson from this.

      And in the future, ONLY give instant commissions to people you know or fully trust.

      This market is filled with people like this, unfortunately.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
    It's happened at least once to me, just like your talking about.

    I contacted the person with the credit card, and got the same response as you.

    But, I do not believe them at all, I believe that this guy was lying through his teeth. Because the guy whom I emailed either worked or owned a design company, which is the type of people who do purchase my products.

    Either way, I was not blessed with the transaction reversal/chargeback. Because it made no sense to me either. My product was delivered inside of a secure membership site also.
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  • Profile picture of the author noangel
    Thanks for that, it's really been food for thought.
    I hope it will help others learn from this also.

    It's funny though because out of 3 products one
    being $14, one being $29 and one being $47...
    It's always the $47 product! Coincidence?

    I take it that the people who's Paypal accounts
    were abused are not in any jeopardy ... I kind
    of feel responsible.

    Kind regards,
    Angela
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  • Profile picture of the author azsno
    Many times this happens when you offer 100% affiliate commissions and instant payments...This attracts scammers and con artists because they get paid immediately.

    The stolen card is used to purchase a WSO item, then the affiliate gets paid the affiliate commission immediately (the affiliate is the scammer that is using the stolen CC)...

    The stolen card transaction is many times identified by Visa or Mastercard fraud services and the card holder is notified. Of course the card holder has no idea what Warrior Forum is or that their card was used in a fraudulent WSO transaction.

    The Card Company (or Card Holder) then places ALL recent suspicious card activity in a frozen state (the card cannot be used until the charges are verified as legitimate).

    Of course Paypal is notified by Visa, Mastercard, or American Express that the activity was suspicious and Paypal gets involved.

    In the meantime the affiliate commissions have been processed and paid, and the scammer is LONG gone, back into their rabbit hole.

    How do I know this? I've lost a few sales because of this technique scammers use. So what's the CURE?

    I believe JVZoo has the BEST affiliate program for thwarting this kind of activity.

    1. You can approve affiliates for "delay" payments (scammers NO LONGER get paid instantly). This really doesn't work well for scammers that want to grab the money and run.

    2. JVZoo tells you where the affiliate is from (home country) and gives you their email...You can contact them through JVZoo to give you MORE information if you're considering approving them as an affiliate.

    For example I get many requests like the following:




    You can see the persons Country, email, and sales on the JVZoo affiliate request page...I also ask for their Warrior ID especially if they have NO sales, like the example above...

    One of the GREAT things about JVZoo's affiliate program is the ability to "DENY" or "DELAY" their affiliate payment. Again, scammers "HATE" this because they don't get paid IMMEDIATELY... You can also REWARD your GREAT affiliates by giving them "INSTANT" payments, good affiliates LOVE this.

    I DON'T own a piece of JVZoo or have a VESTED interest. I 'm ONLY providing you this information in the interest of cutting scammers off at the knees.

    ***As a FORMER Network/Security Engineer in Silicon Valley, I saw how hackers, scammers, and crooks try to destroy companies websites and business flow. It's GREAT to have a Tool in our kit that "FIGHTS" back. I believe the JVZoo affiliate system is the BEST at fighting scammers to date.***

    Hope this Helps you...

    ~AzSno...
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by azsno View Post

      I believe JVZoo has the BEST affiliate program for thwarting this kind of activity.

      1. You can approve affiliates for "delay" payments (scammers NO LONGER get paid instantly). This really doesn't work well for scammers that want to grab the money and run.
      All of the criminal affiliates that filled up my Paypal account with 6 chargebacks were from JVZoo.

      Admittedly, it was my fault for putting them on instant commissions. I had never used affiliate platforms prior to this, so didn't have a clue that this was happening. If I were to continue using affiliates, which I'm not, they would all go on delayed commissions. That is pretty effective for weeding out the scammers, as they need to get that commission fast and empty out their paypal accounts before the chargebacks come rolling in.

      If you use WSO Pro, make sure you actually do follow the link to their WF profile and take some time to check out how long they've been a member and read some of their posts. It gives you some insight into the kind of person they are. In addition, the $5/mnth fee for becoming an affiliate through Warrior Plus is less attractive to scammers, although I am sure some will pay it.
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    Angela,

    This can happen when:

    1. The card holder was scammed because someone else used it and they did not know about it.

    2. The person knew they were buying your WSO through this forum and had the intention to get it for free when they disputed your charge. This happened to me a few times and there is not much you can do. You can fight it but that would probably be a waste of time.

    Some people use #2 technique that I mentioned above and they get away with it every single time.
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    • Profile picture of the author azsno
      Originally Posted by talfighel View Post

      Angela,

      This can happen when:

      1. The card holder was scammed because someone else used it and they did not know about it.

      2. The person knew they were buying your WSO through this forum and had the intention to get it for free when they disputed your charge. This happened to me a few times and there is not much you can do. You can fight it but that would probably be a waste of time.

      Some people use #2 technique that I mentioned above and they get away with it every single time.

      Actually, again using JVZoo, there is a WAY to STOP Serial Refunders, just place them on the JVZoo Seller BLACKLIST...



      As you can see from the image above, I'm blocking 68 former buyers from accessing my products. I'm also BLOCKING 576 Blacklisted Buyers that have been idenfied by JVZoo Sellers as being problematic. These are buyers that have been listed on the Blacklist by 3 other JVZoo Sellers.

      Obviously if you've refunded enough to be listed on JVZoo's Blacklist you're probably a habitual refunder. Anyway, I don't want them as BUYERS for my products.

      You can set your level easily in the JVZoo Buyers Blacklist also, either higher or lower depending upon your preference...

      You can see there are three levels of BLOCKING available which makes this system unique.

      If you're a Product SELLER, this system let's you fight back against serial refunders quickly and easily.

      If NOTHING Else it gives buyers PAUSE before buying ANY WSO, knowing that if they refund they MAY end up on the JVZoo BLACKLIST...This could affect their ability to purchase products on JVZoo offered by ANY JVZoo seller...

      ~AzSno...
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      • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
        Actually...

        Often the "purchaser" doesn't have a Paypal account, and they really don't care if they receive your product, or not.

        It's credit card fraud, or the first step to actual fraud.

        The "buyer" is just testing to see if the charge will be processed (i.e. the card hasn't yet been reported as stolen). Once the charge has been approved by Paypal, they know they can then sell that card to someone with assurances given that it will be accepted by merchants.

        This can occur whether you have affiliates, or not. All that is required is an online sales page with a payment processor that accepts credit card payment.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    There are a few reasons:

    1. The purchaser is a serial refunder or wants a refund but doesn't have the balls to say "Hey I would like a refund for the following reason."

    2. They purchase your product with the intention of refunding

    3. The PayPal account owner has fallen victim to a phishing email.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    I have had this happen to me a couple of times over the years. I have done my research and gone back to those people with a list of their IP address that accessed my product, what web hosting company they are using for their Internet Connection, their Facebook profile page, any other information I can find about them.

    Just searching Google or Facebook for their email address sometimes brings up a whole lot of information they would rather you didn't have.

    I then tell them if they would like to proceed with the false unauthorized payment claim I would be contacting Paypal and their ISP and letting them know about their fraudulent activities -- because that's what it is.

    In 99% of these cases the person is just trying to take you for a ride. In most of the cases they ended up dropping the unauthorized payment claim when they saw I meant business.
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  • Profile picture of the author miskat
    most coomon cause of unauthorized money mean either high ammount paid by credit card to you that hold by paypal or It ccame from hacked account
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  • Profile picture of the author rmolina88
    Ugh, this finally happened to me for the first time today. I've had my share of serial refunders from clickbank in the past, but this is my first "unauthorized sale" from paypal.

    It's so incredibly obvious it's a serial refunder.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
      Originally Posted by rmolina88 View Post

      Ugh, this finally happened to me for the first time today. I've had my share of serial refunders from clickbank in the past, but this is my first "unauthorized sale" from paypal.

      It's so incredibly obvious it's a serial refunder.
      Actually...
      It's incredibly obvious that it is NOT a serial refunder.

      An "unauthorized sale" is exactly what it says. The buyer was not the cardholder, and the cardholder didn't authorize the charge... but Paypal didn't know that at the time of the transaction. Therefore, they approved the sale.

      Credit card companies update other financial institutions (i.e. processors like Paypal) on a daily basis - not in real time. When a credit card is stolen, Paypal isn't notified until the daily update from the credit card companies, so they (and you) are at risk during that short 24 hour window.

      When Paypal is notified of a new stolen card, they process against recent orders to determine if they have received funds via that card and will automatically reverse the transaction against the cardholders account.

      So you see, there was no refund request from the buyer at all, no dispute filed. Merchant agreements with the credit card companies require that they reverse these transactions.
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