Clickbank ripping you off too??

by AdamWB
220 replies
I used to hear stories of people not getting credit for affiliate sales, or their sales just randomly dropping with no decrease in traffic/hops. I always thought "sucks to be them, at least my account is fine."

Unfortunately, I'm experiencing the same thing now. A few of my product sales have basically dropped into oblivion, even though my traffic is increasing (the traffic source hasn't changed at all). It gets a little fishy when you're making 2-3sales a day with around a 1:100 conversion rate, then nothing for weeks with a 1:10,000 conversion rate. I mean come on?

Over this last weekend, I had some friends buy my products through my affiliate links just to see if something was up (I paid them for it, and no I didn't get a refund - hence I wasn't ripping off the product owners), and guess what? only 30% of the sales were accounted for. What happened to my other sales? I'm seeing threads popping up everywhere with users experiencing the same thing. You'll get the occasional big honcho jumping in saying "sucks to be you guys, but my sales are fine," only to find out later he's getting the same clickbank runaround.

I've emailed clickbank about the issue several times with no response. In fact, a few minutes ago I signed up for a cool article submitter through my friends affiliate link so he could get credit for the referral. Think he got credit? Nope. Big surprise. That was the last straw and what what motivated me to create this thread actually.

So is clickbank ripping you off too? I'm in the process of migrating all of my sites to paydotcom or other affiliate sites. What do you guys think?
#clickbank #ripping
  • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
    I think that a class action lawsuit is in order. People being ripped off should unite and make it happen.

    I'm not being ripped off because I'm not promoting via clickbank, so I'm out.

    It is something you should seriously consider and think about.

    James
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[676770].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bt
      Man that's scary, a strange thing happened to me a few days ago on one of my affiliate sales through clickbank, I noticed a customer had got a refund 30 minutes after making a purchase, so I'm thinking to myself how can that be, the refund process through clickbank usually takes at least 1 or 2 days.

      So I call clickbank and ask how the customer was able to get a refund so quickly, and the clickbank rep says the customer must have called In the refund on the phone, but you know what, most customers don't even know that clickbank even has a phone number.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[676863].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author activetrader
        Originally Posted by bt View Post

        Man that's scary, a strange thing happened to me a few days ago on one of my affiliate sales through clickbank, I noticed a customer had got a refund 30 minutes after making a purchase, so I'm thinking to myself how can that be, the refund process through clickbank usually takes at least 1 or 2 days.

        So I call clickbank and ask how the customer was able to get a refund so quickly, and the clickbank rep says the customer must have called In the refund on the phone, but you know what, most customers don't even know that clickbank even has a phone number.
        ClickBank customer service number is ON THE RECEIPT. When a customer buys something he receives a receipt that says how to contact the publisher and if there is further questions how to contact CB. When you click on that link there is a toll free number to call in
        Signature

        Me

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[693484].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Jackbgd
          Hey, a question regarding "opening new clickbank account" - when you open a new count - do you use the same name? Because I thought it's not allowed to open more account on the same name/email address etc.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[693726].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kkchoon
    Never had this experience before... anyone else? Please share, I think this is extremely important for affiliates.
    Signature

    Powerful Indexer That Makes Your Backlinks Count ==> Nuclear Link Indexer

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[676956].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AdamWB
      Originally Posted by kkchoon View Post

      Never had this experience before... anyone else? Please share, I think this is extremely important for affiliates.
      You'd be surprised. I'm not sure if I can post links to other forums here, but there's one thread in particular on another forum that would literally blow your mind about how clickbank is treating their affiliates.

      It's pretty much been concluded that CB is either shaving sales, or their tracking system is a complete failure right now. Either way, people are not getting the sales they rightfully deserve.

      What's even worse is CB will not acknowledge my emails, even though I have 100% proof something is wrong.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[677229].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author milan
    Let me guess what might've happened:

    Your "friend" who wasn't credited for the sale is actually you, or a person from the same house/office. Clickbank's system figured that out and didn't want the "affiliate" to get the credit for such a tactic.

    So who's ripping off who?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[677300].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ahefner33
      I'm the one that AdamWB bought from using my aff. link and nope it did not go through. My sales have also dropped off. Some reason I think its there tracking system because the amount people that are claiming not getting sales is too obvious if a company wanted to be shady. But still it's scary because you have no way of knowing whats going on.


      Originally Posted by milan View Post

      Let me guess what might've happened:

      Your "friend" who wasn't credited for the sale is actually you, or a person from the same house/office. Clickbank's system figured that out and didn't want the "affiliate" to get the credit for such a tactic.

      So who's ripping off who?
      Signature

      Adam Hefner

      http://foodgawker.com/ - Warning - Don't go to if you are hawngry

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[677778].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author jestershaw
      Are you kidding me!!!

      Sound like milan is just posting for the link.

      Originally Posted by milan View Post

      Let me guess what might've happened:

      Your "friend" who wasn't credited for the sale is actually you, or a person from the same house/office. Clickbank's system figured that out and didn't want the "affiliate" to get the credit for such a tactic.

      So who's ripping off who?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678520].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author n00b
    Actually, if you read on Clickbank's website they make it clear that an affiliate is allowed to purchase a product through their own link. The only time it's a problem is if they can determine that you signed up as an affiliate solely to get a "discount" on items. I think it's clear from this thread that this affiliate is not doing that and that they are not trying to rip anybody off. If they want to purchase through their own link or reimburse a couple of people for purchasing through their link they are perfectly within their rights to do so and it in no way rips anyone off. The only way it could be construed that way is if this affiliate was then having these people request refunds through Clickbank.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[677376].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author milan
      Originally Posted by n00b View Post

      ...he only time it's a problem is if they can determine that you signed up as an affiliate solely to get a "discount" on items.
      Exactly.

      Originally Posted by n00b View Post

      I think it's clear from this thread that this affiliate is not doing that....
      How is that clear from this thread? BTW the OP bought one of MY products through a ghost affiliate that sold only that one sale, at the time where I had only one affiliate promoting my product. At least I'm sure he knows how to clear affiliate cookies...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[677396].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author AdamWB
        Originally Posted by milan View Post

        Exactly.



        How is that clear from this thread? BTW the OP bought one of MY products through a ghost affiliate that sold only that one sale, at the time where I had only one affiliate promoting my product. At least I'm sure he knows how to clear affiliate cookies...
        Milan, come on man, you gotta be kidding me. Is this you getting mad because I took a refund on your buggy product? Take it up with me over email, and don't water up my thread please. Or at least give me the respect to read my post before coming to your own delusional conclusions.

        Yes, I've signed up many times under my own affiliate link to get a discount on a product or to check a product out so I can make a review to sell it, yes I am guilty (who isn't?). In fact some affiliates I know encourage it. And I'm sure the affiliates hate it when I do that and turn around and make them thousands of dollars. Boo hoo, poor them. I am well within the CB TOS in doing so, and they have even given me the go-ahead in emails to do so.

        As far as who's ripping off who. I think it's obvious and it doesn't take a wannabe programmer to figure it out.

        Anyway this thread was started to bring up awareness. I've been with CB many years, as I'm sure many of you have. It's pretty disheartening to see them doing dropping the ball like this after so many successfull years.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[677618].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author milan
          Originally Posted by AdamWB View Post

          Milan, come on man, you gotta be kidding me. Is this you getting mad because I took a refund on your buggy product? Take it up with me over email, and don't water up my thread please. Or at least give me the respect to read my post before coming to your own delusional conclusions.
          Adam, I did not come up with any conclusions or water up the discussion, I told one of the possible reasons you're experiencing what you're experiencing. I suggested that your practice might be against the TOS of affiliate networks (buying through your own affiliate link just to get a discount), and that in such cases one cannot blame an affiliate network for not crediting those sales (that is, acting according to their rules). Now that you've confirmed that's what you do, I'll add that the name for the license of my software you used is not even similar to Adam B. which is not complaint with personal software licensing agreements. That practice is way different than getting a copy tio "make a review to possibly sell it". But, I'm not saying you're right or wrong, do as you think it ethical.

          Some of your comments are out of the line, I don't respect your buying practices, but I don't insult you. I'm not a wannabe programmer, I have tons of credentials and projects behind me. Including Microsoft Certified Trainer for the last 5 years where I teach top professional programmers.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[677787].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Okay, this "Clickbank is ripping me off" crap has got to stop.

            Does their tracking system leave a bit to be desired? Yes. But their system
            has had bugs in it since the early days when I first started affiliate marketing.

            It was never great. I lost sales all the time from people writing to me, sending
            me their receipts, forwarding the email I sent, and yet I didn't get credit for
            the sale. Sometimes another affiliate got it, sometimes no affiliate got it.
            If no affiliate got it, I managed to get Clickbank to credit me the sale. It's a
            pain in the ass process but they'll do it if no affiliate got the sale and you
            have a relationship with the merchant.

            But intentionally ripping affiliates off?

            It's ludicrous.

            Logic...use a little common sense.

            Affiliate signs up with Clickbank.
            Affiliate promotes product.
            Affiliate sells product.
            Affiliate doesn't get credit for sales.
            Affiliate gets pissed and stops promoting Clickbank products.

            Who gets hurt?

            Okay, use a little common sense folks. Clickbank is not in the business
            of ripping affiliates off.

            Yes, they need to really tighten up their tracking system because it has
            some problems. But intentionally ripping off affiliates?

            It's the most absurd accusation I've heard in my 6 plus years of marketing
            online.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[677822].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Johnathan
              Actually Steve...

              I have read a number of good posts from you, but believe you may be mistaken here...

              It is not uncommon for some businesses to 'deliberately' "shave" commissions (or other things/different businesses), etc, because there is a lack of accountability. The excuse is 'programmer' error, and when you are doing tens of millions of dollars in monthly volume, it adds up.

              So if an affiliate say made "100" sales, and a business "shaved" 5 of those sales, most affiliates would be none the wiser because there is no way for the affiliate to "monitor" the actual number of sales made on the vendors account (short of getting the vendors password, and mapping the IP address of completed sales to the IP address of leads generated from the affiliates site).

              Actually, cell phone companies are known for this practise, but in a different form. They deliberately overbill anwhere from 5%-10% of their clients on an alternating schedule (i.e., 10% of 1 million = 100,000 customers). Out of those 100,000 customers, only 1% are ever likely to notice AND complain AND jump through the hoops to get their money back. So, the cell phone company pockets an extra 10% monthly revenue. It is a known practise.

              From what I've read, it does seem very likely that CB is doing this.

              Why? Because they figure they won't get caught. Plus, if they do, they can say 'oops! silly programmer error'.

              Before -- the internet was "sparse" enough that if one person became aware of a poor business practise, it was difficult to get a company to change.

              However, with sites (forums) such as this, where people congregate -- if you get enough people aware of a poor business practise and getting them in 'bulk' to complain, then the company usually will change its practise.

              So it is very likely that CB is doing that -- the old expression where there is smoke there is fire. They just figure they won't get caught... Until enough people realize what is going on and complain.


              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Okay, this "Clickbank is ripping me off" crap has got to stop.

              Does their tracking system leave a bit to be desired? Yes. But their system
              has had bugs in it since the early days when I first started affiliate marketing.

              It was never great. I lost sales all the time from people writing to me, sending
              me their receipts, forwarding the email I sent, and yet I didn't get credit for
              the sale. Sometimes another affiliate got it, sometimes no affiliate got it.
              If no affiliate got it, I managed to get Clickbank to credit me the sale. It's a
              pain in the ass process but they'll do it if no affiliate got the sale and you
              have a relationship with the merchant.

              But intentionally ripping affiliates off?

              It's ludicrous.

              Logic...use a little common sense.

              Affiliate signs up with Clickbank.
              Affiliate promotes product.
              Affiliate sells product.
              Affiliate doesn't get credit for sales.
              Affiliate gets pissed and stops promoting Clickbank products.

              Who gets hurt?

              Okay, use a little common sense folks. Clickbank is not in the business
              of ripping affiliates off.

              Yes, they need to really tighten up their tracking system because it has
              some problems. But intentionally ripping off affiliates?

              It's the most absurd accusation I've heard in my 6 plus years of marketing
              online.
              Signature
              Make money from writing, find out how now.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678260].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author nichebreakers
                Originally Posted by Johnathan View Post

                Actually Steve...

                I have read a number of good posts from you, but believe you may be mistaken here...

                It is not uncommon for some businesses to 'deliberately' "shave" commissions (or other things/different businesses), etc, because there is a lack of accountability. The excuse is 'programmer' error, and when you are doing tens of millions of dollars in monthly volume, it adds up.

                So if an affiliate say made "100" sales, and a business "shaved" 5 of those sales, most affiliates would be none the wiser because there is no way for the affiliate to "monitor" the actual number of sales made on the vendors account (short of getting the vendors password, and mapping the IP address of completed sales to the IP address of leads generated from the affiliates site).

                Actually, cell phone companies are known for this practise, but in a different form. They deliberately overbill anwhere from 5%-10% of their clients on an alternating schedule (i.e., 10% of 1 million = 100,000 customers). Out of those 100,000 customers, only 1% are ever likely to notice AND complain AND jump through the hoops to get their money back. So, the cell phone company pockets an extra 10% monthly revenue. It is a known practise.

                From what I've read, it does seem very likely that CB is doing this.

                Why? Because they figure they won't get caught. Plus, if they do, they can say 'oops! silly programmer error'.

                Before -- the internet was "sparse" enough that if one person became aware of a poor business practise, it was difficult to get a company to change.

                However, with sites (forums) such as this, where people congregate -- if you get enough people aware of a poor business practise and getting them in 'bulk' to complain, then the company usually will change its practise.

                So it is very likely that CB is doing that -- the old expression where there is smoke there is fire. They just figure they won't get caught... Until enough people realize what is going on and complain.
                Also credit card companies have been known to do similar things. Workers have stated that they were aware of payments being shredded intentionally so card holders would have to pay a late fee.

                Walmart also does the same thing to employees by not paying overtime, but then making workers do work when they are off the clock. Walmart managers have also reported shaving off hours to lower earnings paid to their employees.

                If they aren't intentionally doing it, what explains the pattern many folks often see?

                Personally I have noticed many times I will start a ppc campaign and then for the first week or so I will receive sales, then have sales stop completely. Meanwhile I am still getting clicks.

                Maybe it was my fault, maybe it's just a coincidence. However, seeing so many complaints of others having similar experiences makes me wonder.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[683415].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author AdamWB
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              Okay, this "Clickbank is ripping me off" crap has got to stop.

              Does their tracking system leave a bit to be desired? Yes. But their system
              has had bugs in it since the early days when I first started affiliate marketing.

              It was never great. I lost sales all the time from people writing to me, sending
              me their receipts, forwarding the email I sent, and yet I didn't get credit for
              the sale. Sometimes another affiliate got it, sometimes no affiliate got it.
              If no affiliate got it, I managed to get Clickbank to credit me the sale. It's a
              pain in the ass process but they'll do it if no affiliate got the sale and you
              have a relationship with the merchant.

              But intentionally ripping affiliates off?

              It's ludicrous.

              Logic...use a little common sense.

              Affiliate signs up with Clickbank.
              Affiliate promotes product.
              Affiliate sells product.
              Affiliate doesn't get credit for sales.
              Affiliate gets pissed and stops promoting Clickbank products.

              Who gets hurt?

              Okay, use a little common sense folks. Clickbank is not in the business
              of ripping affiliates off.

              Yes, they need to really tighten up their tracking system because it has
              some problems. But intentionally ripping off affiliates?

              It's the most absurd accusation I've heard in my 6 plus years of marketing
              online.
              Steven,

              I have the upmost respect for you, but I 100% disagree with you here. Yes, I was once where you stood. It was pretty absurd, my sales were not faultering, and I was accusing people of jumping to ridiculous conclusions because it 'just did not make sense'.

              And you have to admit, the proof I am laying out here is pretty compelling. Actually it's not compelling, it's proof, 100%. Compelling would be if it were still up in question. It's not. Either their tracking system is bugged at the moment, or they are shaving sales. Which ever it is, it needs to be addressed. And I'm not even close to the only one experiencing these things. The forum complaints sprinkled around the net, as well as the people on this thread, are evidence of that.

              As to which problem it is, I really think it could be either. From a business standpoint, both make sense. They know they have no competition, they know 99% of affiliates won't notice, so they know they can get away with it. I guess we could go on and sit on a log and pout, saying "well nothing I can do oh well." But I think this problem is in the beginning stages of getting 'completely out of hand'. And if enough people take action, hopefully, they will take notice and do something about it.

              IF it were indeed a tracking problem, which is most likely the case IN MY OPINION, and they aren't doing anything fix it (which they are clearly not), then I still think they are technically ripping people off.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678294].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                I'm going to address Adam and Jonathan with this reply.

                First of all, Jonathan, it makes no sense for Clickbank to shave commissions
                because they get nothing out of it. If you understood Clickbank's system,
                you'd realize this.

                Obviously, you don't.

                So here it is in black and white.

                I will use my own product as an example.

                One product I sell, sells for $47.

                If I sell it on my own, I get $42.47

                Clickbank keeps $4.53

                I give 60% commission on each sale.

                If somebody else makes a sale, I get $16.99 Clickbank keeps $1.81 from
                my 40% or a little over 10%.

                The affiliate gets $25.48, which is $2.72 less than they should have
                gotten taken in the Clickbank fee, which in this case, is about 9.6%.

                Either way, Clickbank makes the same amount of money whether a
                merchant makes the sale or an affiliate makes the sale. So shaving
                commissions is not only a stupid thing to do, it doesn't even make any
                financial sense.

                So I'm sorry, but you are dead wrong here.

                Adam, I have already said that their tracking system has problems. But
                again, read my post about PayDotCom. Until somebody comes into the
                arena who is serious about challenging Clickbank, nothing is going to
                change. There is simply no incentive for them to change their system
                if they are making the same amount of money now, with all the problems
                and complaints, as they were back in the day when "supposedly" they
                ran a tight ship.

                Honestly, I have never seen that day as I have had problems with lost
                sales going all the way back to 2003. I've had more phone conversations
                with Jen about this than I've spoken to my step sister in the last 6 years.

                Point is, this has been going on forever, and the only reason it seems
                worse now than it did 6 years ago is because there are more people using
                Clickbank than there were 6 years ago.

                Want things to change?

                Delete your Clickbank account and go elsewhere.

                Start a mass promotional campaign (costing millions of dollars) against
                Clickbank.

                Create a competitive company with the same key features (marketplace
                listing and paying of affiliates through the company)

                Otherwise, stop complaining about the two headed monster that you're
                not going to be able to destroy any other way.

                That's why these threads are pointless.

                Do something or stop whining.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678382].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author AdamWB
                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                  Want things to change?

                  Delete your Clickbank account and go elsewhere.

                  Start a mass promotional campaign (costing millions of dollars) against
                  Clickbank.

                  Create a competitive company with the same key features (marketplace
                  listing and paying of affiliates through the company)

                  Otherwise, stop complaining about the two headed monster that you're
                  not going to be able to destroy any other way.

                  That's why these threads are pointless.

                  Do something or stop whining.
                  Sorry Steven, but your outlook on this whole mess is abysmal at best. Free markets are ran by this exact scenario. Yes, I do agree with you that nothing is going to happen overnight, and probably not next year. Just because this thread alone isn't going to stop the Goliath of CB (not even close), does not mean people should just turn the other cheek.

                  If everyone had the same mentality as you, nothing would get done, ever. Thank God people have opinions and are willing to take action on it. Sure, I don't have the resources to take on CB, but if the Dam that CB is trying to hold up against this massive flood of complaints breaks to the right people - look out CB. Yea, that may be wishful thinking. But history has proven time and time again that the above situation does not go unnoticed forever. Thankfully, CB's days are numbered.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678455].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Johnathan
                  Lol,

                  Hi Steve,

                  Please give me a little credit at least

                  Here is what an affiliate processor could do.

                  Let's say you have a $100 product with a 30% commission, and 10% processor fee (using these numbers for simplicity).

                  Under normal circumstances, this is how an affiliate sale 'should' work.

                  $100 sale

                  $30 - Affiliate gets $30 - Affiliate sale
                  $10 - Processor gets $10
                  $60 - Vendor gets $60 - Because of an affiliate sale

                  Now... If an affiliate system was to 'keep' commissions .

                  $100 Sale
                  -- Nothing for affiliate
                  $10 Processor Fee
                  $60 Vendor -- Vendor THINKS it is an "affiliate" sale (it shows up as an 'affiliate' sale in the vendor panel, so the vendor is happy, because they made an affiliate sale)

                  --> other "$30" affiliate sale could get 'lost' or 'pocketed' into the processor, so

                  +$30 'bonus' processor fee

                  This is what it sounds like some people are describing.
                  Signature
                  Make money from writing, find out how now.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678488].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Originally Posted by Johnathan View Post

                    Lol,

                    Hi Steve,

                    Please give me a little credit at least

                    Here is what an affiliate processor could do.

                    Let's say you have a $100 product with a 30% commission, and 10% processor fee (using these numbers for simplicity).

                    Under normal circumstances, this is how an affiliate sale 'should' work.

                    $100 sale

                    $30 - Affiliate gets $30 - Affiliate sale
                    $10 - Processor gets $10
                    $60 - Vendor gets $60 - Because of an affiliate sale

                    Now... If an affiliate system was to 'keep' commissions .

                    $100 Sale
                    -- Nothing for affiliate
                    $10 Processor Fee
                    $60 Vendor -- Vendor THINKS it is an "affiliate" sale (it shows up as an 'affiliate' sale in the vendor panel, so the vendor is happy, because they made an affiliate sale)

                    --> other "$30" affiliate sale could get 'lost' or 'pocketed' into the processor, so

                    +$30 'bonus' processor fee

                    This is what it sounds like some people are describing.


                    So here is what you're saying.

                    John Doe goes to site (via affiliate link) and makes purchase.

                    At the bottom of the page, it says affiliate=none.

                    But...when the sale goes through and the merchant sees his report, it
                    shows an affiliate name so he thinks it's an affiliate sale when in fact
                    the affiliate didn't get credit.

                    Wow, that's one sophisticated theft system if I've ever seen one. I
                    wouldn't in a million years know how to program something like that.

                    But let's say you're right.

                    This is EASY to prove.

                    All the merchant has to do is contact the affiliate and see if he got
                    credit for the sale that is showing up in the merchant's account as an
                    affiliate sale.

                    And let's see how many of these "accusations" are actually true.

                    I'd be shocked if we found even one.

                    The only cases I have found over my 6 years is this.

                    John Doe buys from my hop link.
                    I don't get credit for sale.
                    I call Clickbank and they say either "somebody else did" or "nobody did".

                    In most cases, if nobody did and I get the customer to complain to
                    Clickbank (because I offer bonuses) they credit me with the sale.

                    If somebody else did, I simply tell the customer, "you must have gone
                    there through somebody else's link" to which almost all the time, the
                    customer says, "yeah, but I did go to yours too."

                    Well, he must have gone to that other guy's last, in which case the
                    system tracked properly.

                    As I said, I know their tracking system has flaws. I am not in any way
                    denying that. I am no big fan of Clickbank hop links. But to say that they
                    are deliberately stealing commissions from affiliates...well, let's just say
                    that I need to see more proof than what has already been presented.

                    That's all I'm saying.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678513].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Johnathan
                      Hi Steven,

                      Yes, I am saying that is possible. And fairly easy to implement (programatically).

                      And yes, you are absolutely correct, that it is fairly easy to 'prove'. However, many 'larger' vendors don't have time to go through say 1,000 sales/month, so don't really care. However, unless I am misreading something, from what some people have posted (in this/other threads), it seems as if that is what they were describing.

                      If the vendor is instead getting the `full`credit, and the affiliate not getting any credit at all, then ok, I would say that simply the actual link tracking system is flawed (and obviously needs to be corrected).

                      Johnathan



                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      So here is what you're saying.

                      John Doe goes to site (via affiliate link) and makes purchase.

                      At the bottom of the page, it says affiliate=none.

                      But...when the sale goes through and the merchant sees his report, it
                      shows an affiliate name so he thinks it's an affiliate sale when in fact
                      the affiliate didn't get credit.

                      Wow, that's one sophisticated theft system if I've ever seen one. I
                      wouldn't in a million years know how to program something like that.

                      But let's say you're right.

                      This is EASY to prove.

                      All the merchant has to do is contact the affiliate and see if he got
                      credit for the sale that is showing up in the merchant's account as an
                      affiliate sale.

                      And let's see how many of these "accusations" are actually true.

                      I'd be shocked if we found even one.

                      The only cases I have found over my 6 years is this.

                      John Doe buys from my hop link.
                      I don't get credit for sale.
                      I call Clickbank and they say either "somebody else did" or "nobody did".

                      In most cases, if nobody did and I get the customer to complain to
                      Clickbank (because I offer bonuses) they credit me with the sale.

                      If somebody else did, I simply tell the customer, "you must have gone
                      there through somebody else's link" to which almost all the time, the
                      customer says, "yeah, but I did go to yours too."

                      Well, he must have gone to that other guy's last, in which case the
                      system tracked properly.

                      As I said, I know their tracking system has flaws. I am not in any way
                      denying that. I am no big fan of Clickbank hop links. But to say that they
                      are deliberately stealing commissions from affiliates...well, let's just say
                      that I need to see more proof than what has already been presented.

                      That's all I'm saying.
                      Signature
                      Make money from writing, find out how now.
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678533].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      John Doe buys from my hop link.
                      I don't get credit for sale.
                      I call Clickbank and they say either "somebody else did" or "nobody did".

                      In most cases, if nobody did and I get the customer to complain to
                      Clickbank (because I offer bonuses) they credit me with the sale.
                      So what happens to all of the commissions where the affiliate=none and no customer complains to the affiliate? (So the affiliate cannot contact CB and ask, "Where's my money?" ) :confused:

                      You say "in most cases" with no affiliate listed, you get credit for the sale. Who the heck gets credit if they don't let you get it?
                      Signature
                      "Fate protects fools, little children, and ships called Enterprise." ~Commander Riker
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678935].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                        Originally Posted by ShayRockhold View Post

                        So what happens to all of the commissions where the affiliate=none and no customer complains to the affiliate? (So the affiliate cannot contact CB and ask, "Where's my money?" ) :confused:

                        You say "in most cases" with no affiliate listed, you get credit for the sale. Who the heck gets credit if they don't let you get it?
                        In those other cases, I would have to guess that just the merchant gets
                        credit for the sale. But I can count those instances in 6 plus years on less
                        than one hand.

                        Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying there aren't problems. I'm sure
                        there are. I'm just not so sure that these problems are a deliberate attempt
                        on Clickbank's part to defraud people.

                        Does that make me naive? Maybe...but I have to believe that people are
                        essentially good or we might as well just nuke this rock and start all over.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678951].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Jackbgd
                Originally Posted by AdamWB View Post

                Steven,

                I have the upmost respect for you, but I 100% disagree with you here. Yes, I was once where you stood. It was pretty absurd, my sales were not faultering, and I was accusing people of jumping to ridiculous conclusions because it 'just did not make sense'.

                And you have to admit, the proof I am laying out here is pretty compelling. Actually it's not compelling, it's proof, 100%. Compelling would be if it were still up in question. It's not. Either their tracking system is bugged at the moment, or they are shaving sales. Which ever it is, it needs to be addressed. And I'm not even close to the only one experiencing these things. The forum complaints sprinkled around the net, as well as the people on this thread, are evidence of that.

                As to which problem it is, I really think it could be either. From a business standpoint, both make sense. They know they have no competition, they know 99% of affiliates won't notice, so they know they can get away with it. I guess we could go on and sit on a log and pout, saying "well nothing I can do oh well." But I think this problem is in the beginning stages of getting 'completely out of hand'. And if enough people take action, hopefully, they will take notice and do something about it.

                IF it were indeed a tracking problem, which is most likely the case IN MY OPINION, and they aren't doing anything fix it (which they are clearly not), then I still think they are technically ripping people off.
                Hey Adam, you said that clickbank has no competition. I'm a bit new to internet marketing... is there another way you can sell a product? and if they don't have competition why can't someone else get together and create a "new clickbank"? The owners of clickbank should be some multimillionairs, as far as I know they get a percentage for every single sale? Add that up...

                Another question, are you people talking only about affiliates not being able to get their sales or ALSO people that own products? Because this is HUGE money we're talking about... it's not just the affiliate getting ripped off but the vendor as well... let's say someone buys a product through an affiliate link, he get's to clickbank's page to enter his credit card number etc. he pays let's say 40$, (if 50% is the commission the vendor give the affiliate then) 20$ should go to the affiliate, and 20$ to the vendor (or clickbank get's 1-2$ percentage I don't know) - but instead - all the 40$ go to clickbank! and the vendor and affiliate don't even know the sale happened???

                That's outrageous. But I think the vendor can track how many visitors got to his sales page and clicked on the "Buy Now" or "Order Now" button? Right? The only thing they don't know is if the people that pressed "Buy Now" and got to clickbanks order page actually typed in their credit card info and made the payment. But probably 99% of people that click on "Buy Now" actually buy the product.

                I'm asking all this since I'm almost finished with an eBook and I have no idea what to do with it. By the way - I'm also an affiliate currently and this may be weird too - I put up my website, with 200 visitors (targeted, great bounce rate, great average time on site, great stats in general) - with 200 visitors I made 3 sales in 3 days. Every day one sale - then nothing for a week, then 2 sales in one day, then nothing for a week, then 2 sales in one day - the funny thing is that I currently have 500! visitors a day, that's 2 and half times more people visiting my site, also targeted traffic, DIRECT traffic, great stats, bounce rate etc. - and ZERO SALES. OK, maybe I got lucky a few times earlier, or I didn't? It's strange 'cause I expected that If I sell 1 book with 200 visitors, I'll sell 2 with 500?

                I guess it doesn't work like that. Or clickbank sucks?

                By the way thanks people, this forum is great. Tons of great people.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[690971].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author AdamWB
            Originally Posted by milan View Post

            Adam, I did not come up with any conclusions or water up the discussion, I told one of the possible reasons you're experiencing what you're experiencing. I suggested that your practice might be against the TOS of affiliate networks (buying through your own affiliate link just to get a discount), and that in such cases one cannot blame an affiliate network for not crediting those sales (that is, acting according to their rules). Now that you've confirmed that's what you do, I'll add that the name for the license of my software you used is not even similar to Adam B. which is not complaint with personal software licensing agreements. That practice is way different than getting a copy tio "make a review to possibly sell it". But, I'm not saying you're right or wrong, do as you think it ethical.

            Some of your comments are out of the line, I don't respect your buying practices, but I don't insult you. I'm not a wannabe programmer, I have tons of credentials and projects behind me. Including Microsoft Certified Trainer for the last 5 years where I teach top professional programmers.
            Milan, it's not unethical. Affiliates encourage it. They want you to buy their product, review it, and sell it for them - THAT'S HOW THEY MAKE MONEY. If a rebate gives you incentive to accomplish the above, more power to you. Give me 1 affiliate that disagrees with that, and I'll give you 100 that don't. That's just the way it is my man.

            And yes, you did water up my thread. Your post clearly had nothing to do with CB ripping people off, and accused me of something I did not do. The program in question, wasn't even your product. Therefore, you jumped to conclusions. Anyway, if you some personal problem with me, take it up in PM or email.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678389].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
              I managed to get a transcript of a conversation between two ClickBank employees.

              A: I've got Fred Smith on the phone complaining yet again:
              one week zero sales, the next week lots of sales.

              B: Well just do the usual trick. Go to his account and click
              on the "Activate" button. It always works - it is
              programmed to cause an onrush of sales and keep him quiet

              A: OK but I've been thinking. If that solves the problem then
              surely . . . that means you know what the problem is.

              B: Shhh. Lower your voice - of course I do.

              A: Then why don't you code it in

              B: Too much work. As you know I'm the only programmer here
              and I wrote the system twenty years ago in Cobol.

              A: But people are complaining.

              B: Well use the server 7 solution

              A: What's that ?

              B: I've put the code fix on server number 7.
              That's where we put the top sellers. So stick Fred in there.

              Any more problems ?

              A: Affiliate Jim Kelly can't get sales. He read at the
              Warrior forum that if you open a new account then
              miraculously the sales start again.

              B: It's not a miracle. New accounts get put on server 8
              where I've also put the code fix.

              A: So how long before you do all the servers.

              B: Oh it's only an hour's work but no hurry, we've got no
              competitors so we're not worried about annoying vendors and
              affiliates. Maybe next year some time.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678395].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author ShafirAhmad
                Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

                I managed to get a transcript of a conversation between two ClickBank employees.

                ...
                B: Well use the server 7 solution

                A: What's that ?

                B: I've put the code fix on server number 7.
                That's where we put the top sellers. So stick Fred in there.

                ...

                B: It's not a miracle. New accounts get put on server 8
                where I've also put the code fix.
                Why cant we all request that they put the fix in - if it only takes one hour, or at the very least, get transferred to server 7 and 8
                Signature

                Shafir Ahmad
                ShafirAhmad.Net My Blog

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[683433].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Janet Sawyer
                No smoke or mirrors then?

                Interesting - and more importantly Food for Thought!


                Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

                I managed to get a transcript of a conversation between two ClickBank employees.

                A: I've got Fred Smith on the phone complaining yet again:
                one week zero sales, the next week lots of sales.

                B: Well just do the usual trick. Go to his account and click
                on the "Activate" button. It always works - it is
                programmed to cause an onrush of sales and keep him quiet

                A: OK but I've been thinking. If that solves the problem then
                surely . . . that means you know what the problem is.

                B: Shhh. Lower your voice - of course I do.

                A: Then why don't you code it in

                B: Too much work. As you know I'm the only programmer here
                and I wrote the system twenty years ago in Cobol.

                A: But people are complaining.

                B: Well use the server 7 solution

                A: What's that ?

                B: I've put the code fix on server number 7.
                That's where we put the top sellers. So stick Fred in there.

                Any more problems ?

                A: Affiliate Jim Kelly can't get sales. He read at the
                Warrior forum that if you open a new account then
                miraculously the sales start again.

                B: It's not a miracle. New accounts get put on server 8
                where I've also put the code fix.

                A: So how long before you do all the servers.

                B: Oh it's only an hour's work but no hurry, we've got no
                competitors so we're not worried about annoying vendors and
                affiliates. Maybe next year some time.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[685332].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

                I managed to get a transcript of a conversation between two ClickBank employees.

                A: I've got Fred Smith on the phone complaining yet again:
                one week zero sales, the next week lots of sales.

                B: Well just do the usual trick. Go to his account and click
                on the "Activate" button. It always works - it is
                programmed to cause an onrush of sales and keep him quiet

                A: OK but I've been thinking. If that solves the problem then
                surely . . . that means you know what the problem is.

                B: Shhh. Lower your voice - of course I do.

                A: Then why don't you code it in

                B: Too much work. As you know I'm the only programmer here
                and I wrote the system twenty years ago in Cobol.

                A: But people are complaining.

                B: Well use the server 7 solution

                A: What's that ?

                B: I've put the code fix on server number 7.
                That's where we put the top sellers. So stick Fred in there.

                Any more problems ?

                A: Affiliate Jim Kelly can't get sales. He read at the
                Warrior forum that if you open a new account then
                miraculously the sales start again.

                B: It's not a miracle. New accounts get put on server 8
                where I've also put the code fix.

                A: So how long before you do all the servers.

                B: Oh it's only an hour's work but no hurry, we've got no
                competitors so we're not worried about annoying vendors and
                affiliates. Maybe next year some time.
                That's brilliant! Like a episode of...gosh...dunno..."The Office"..."Yes Minister"..."Seinfeld"?
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[695120].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author David Chamberlain
    Hi

    I've made a couple of sales recently and I walked the customers through the sign up process - it was for a membership site. None of tehm were recognised by Clickbank, I did this just to check. I'm not too bothered as it was only going to make me about $500 a year - so it's not big fish BUT it is $500 which should be in my pocket.

    It just makes me wary of promoting Clickbank products, why waste my time and effort on something that I may not even get recognition for?

    I emailed support and got a message on what a hoplink should look like. A bit patronising really. Has anyone started a petition? I'll sign....

    Regards

    David
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[677419].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Roy Carter
    Adam - re: It gets a little fishy when you're making 2-3 sales a day with around a 1:100 conversion rate, then nothing for weeks with a 1:10,000 conversion rate. I mean come on?

    I have to say that I too have been very concerned about this since the beginning of this year. I have one product that was converting very well and very consistently then suddenly bammo! Zero sales from consistent levels of high traffic. Too weird to be true.

    I have considered taking the product off CB but the dilemma is that I have a lot of affiliates promoting it and no way to contact many of them to let them know if I want to move it. I don't want to upset my afiliates as I value them highly but something has to be done as it's just ridiculous.

    CB deny any problems with their tracking as a matter of course, but too many people have now tested this and not been paid commissions for provable sales made. I've even heard several people say that they got someone to buy their own product via an aff link and the sale was not recorded.

    Like I say, my own experience with a top selling product that has dropped to zero has me hoping that CB get things sorted and fast. I've always thought CB was a great service but they surely cannot keep ignoring this problem.

    It's all very well for people to come on and defend CB, but when it happens to their own business they'll see how frustrating this is and perhaps understand that there are way too many people that this is happening to for it to be cast aside as not relevant.
    Signature
    "How To Hang Out On Various Exotic Islands
    Whilst Still Making Shed Loads Of Money...and stuff!"


    Get your FREE ISSUE entitled...'A Quick, Easy $2,000 In Your Pocket By This Weekend!'
    >> ---> http://LettersFromASmallIsland.com/sq1.html <--- < <
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[677420].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author lamborman
      are there any good alternatives to clickbank then guys
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[677427].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Dellco
        I'm pretty sure Clickbank is ripping off some of its affiliates, maybe not all but definitely some. And I'm likely to be in that "some."

        I have CB on many of my sites and I just know my sales should be higher.

        CB is smart, they make sure they give sales to enough people, (God only knows how much they earn) and these people will always show their big checks from CB and go around saying "What CB scam you're talking about?"

        Until it happens to them....
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[677496].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author theinfomaven
        Originally Posted by lamborman View Post

        are there any good alternatives to clickbank then guys


        Yes.


        http://siteanalytics.compete.com/e-j...com/?metric=uv

        Both have affiliate programs, by the way.

        E-Junkie & Plimus are my favs.


        Also, for custom solutions (if you don't care about affiliate traffic or want to manage that yourself):
        directtrack
        alertpay
        commission junction
        1shoppingcart.com
        automateyourwebsite.com
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[679671].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ArthurRose
    Banned
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[677600].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AdamWB
      Originally Posted by ArthurRose View Post

      Yes, CB rips people off, but I'm not surprised due to economy. To be honest, all affiliate and CPA networks do this, so just live with it.


      No.
      Yea, I've seen this with a few bucketshop CPA networks, but my tracking is pretty much 100% spot on with the larger more reputable ones. As far as CPA networks go, what ones have you found that do this to you?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[677621].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author captivereef
    Well i only make a few sales a day so my experience is some what limited. But i hav e noticed a sharp decrease in sales in the last month or so.

    One thing i do notice is that my tracking stats are screwed up bad. I redirect my domains to the click bank page via ezinearticles and no matter what i do i keep getting 50% of my stats saying no tracking code even though the TID is there when i check my redirect link.

    I also get some really weird tracking codes coming through that are 10-18 characters long.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[677663].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Amber Jalink
    I actually refuse to use clickbank for these reasons, even as an affiliate they still have nearly $500 in commissions on hold just because it was only a few sales, not enough "different" forms of payment. (Ridiculous - obviously these people haven't refunded, its been there since August of last year!)

    One thing that "might" be affecting it: If people have certain settings in their browser.

    i.e,. cookie tracking. I had this happen with one of my affiliate program scripts, even though it was supposedly the newest version, it didn't track properly if people had their cookies off or blocked. (I obviously switched aff programs very quickly, and compared my raw traffic logs to match those few up thankfully).

    Had it happening in a way with people logging into one of my sites, people weren't seeing the changes, even though they were there.

    It can come down to:

    - their browser
    - their browser version
    - their security settings
    - their cookie settings.

    You'd "THINK" CB would have sessions and IP tracking too, not just cookies, but I suspect that's a lot of what's happening here.

    The newest (full) version of IE really messes this stuff up. If so many have upgraded to the newer IE, they might be the ones causing these issues without even knowing it. It's really bad for cacheing and blocking unless you *know* where to change your settings.

    Food for thought - it might not "just" be CB's fault, might be a combination of these factors. (I also rarely use IE either except for testing LOL)

    Amber
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[677782].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Roy Carter
    Amber - re:- they still have nearly $500 in commissions on hold just because it was only a few sales, not enough "different" forms of payment. (Ridiculous - obviously these people haven't refunded, its been there since August of last year!)


    If you email them and just ask, they will release that money for you.


    Roy
    Signature
    "How To Hang Out On Various Exotic Islands
    Whilst Still Making Shed Loads Of Money...and stuff!"


    Get your FREE ISSUE entitled...'A Quick, Easy $2,000 In Your Pocket By This Weekend!'
    >> ---> http://LettersFromASmallIsland.com/sq1.html <--- < <
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[677814].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Roy Carter
    Hi Steven

    I don't believe that CB are intentionally ripping people off at all, for exactly the reasons that you outline. I DO strongly believe they have a problem with their tracking though, and a big one.
    Signature
    "How To Hang Out On Various Exotic Islands
    Whilst Still Making Shed Loads Of Money...and stuff!"


    Get your FREE ISSUE entitled...'A Quick, Easy $2,000 In Your Pocket By This Weekend!'
    >> ---> http://LettersFromASmallIsland.com/sq1.html <--- < <
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[677850].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by Roy Carter View Post

      Hi Steven

      I don't believe that CB are intentionally ripping people off at all, for exactly the reasons that you outline. I DO strongly believe they have a problem with their tracking though, and a big one.
      I don't believe that it's intentional either, but it's happening WAY too much. I just caught it happening yesterday, as a matter of fact.

      I clicked on my clickbank affiliate link and saw my affiliate ID extension in my address bar:

      /?hop=MyAccount

      I clicked on the link, scrolled to the bottom of the purchase page and saw "Affiliate = None".

      There was an upsell link and I tried that and got the same result. I then re-typed the entire hoplink address in there with my ID and tried again, but STILL didn't receive credit!!!

      I was NOT happy because I'd sent 161 clicks to this product with zero conversions.

      I called Clickbank and the gal I spoke to told me she FOUND a problem, but she didn't say what it was. She said she'd get back to me today. The merchant is huge in Clickbank and I don't think she wanted to incriminate anyone without getting all the facts first.

      I can't justify continuing to whine about something that can't be changed, however there are hundreds of other merchants online, many of which that are very credible, where I can be pretty much assured of getting credit for my sales when I promote their products.

      It doesn't matter if it's intentional or not, the fact is that it's not a joke, it's happening and needs to be addressed.

      If sales are being made, and the affiliates aren't getting credit, then someone else is benefitting from someone elses hard work and advertising budget.

      Sorry, but that ain't right.

      My two cents.


      Joe
      Signature

      My New "Share All" Blog Is Coming Soon! Online & Offline Marketing, More!

      http://www.UnCENTSored.com

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678318].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Roy Carter
    Interesting post Jennifer.
    Signature
    "How To Hang Out On Various Exotic Islands
    Whilst Still Making Shed Loads Of Money...and stuff!"


    Get your FREE ISSUE entitled...'A Quick, Easy $2,000 In Your Pocket By This Weekend!'
    >> ---> http://LettersFromASmallIsland.com/sq1.html <--- < <
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678017].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Hamida Harland
      Jennifer has just beautifully summed up my experience with Clickbank for the last few months. One week I might get conversions of 1 in 10 hops, next week the same products might not convert at all. It's very disheartening and I wish Clickbank weren't such a huge chunk of my income. Although the situation has forced me to diversify alot I still find it hard to find products that convert as well as Clickbanks (when they are crediting me with sales).
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678035].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author simba999
      Thanks Jennifer! Some super ideas about what is really happening there, I think I will use PayDotCom for my 1st info product then! I think Clickbank will start to hurt my sales if I go w/ them...even if I get a lot of affiliates, I want to go w/ a place that is at least more reliable.

      Sheila
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678084].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
    Originally Posted by cosmokid View Post


    When you email them you get their canned response - or when Steven emails his contact Jennifer or whatever there you get something a little more personal and nice. (Personal sidenote - By the way Steve, thanks for all the support you gave me last fall when I was having my problems online! I really appreciated it. It's good to be back here again.)
    Glad I was able to help.

    I think Clickbank's problems, which I think somebody above stated, goes
    beyond Clickbank itself.

    I know for a fact that many browsers, if certain things are set, will not
    write cookies correctly, if at all.

    Then there is Spybot. I don't know if that problem has been resolved or
    not but it was a problem at one time.

    Is Clickbank's tracking system great? Not by a longshot. I think there is a
    ton of room for improvement. I think they know this. I also think that if
    there was a way to improve it, they would do it.

    If I had to take a guess at this, I'd say the problem they're having is a
    similar one to one that a friend of mine is having with his site. He is stuck
    with an architecture that is old and outdated. For him to make the changes
    needed, it would cost him a small fortune. We're talking about a huge site.

    The problem is, he's not making enough from the membership to justify
    the cost of upgrading.

    Now, I know Clickbank is making a fortune every year. Still, they need to
    justify the cost of revamping their system to the board. If they can't
    do that (it's not about our problems) then it's not going to happen.

    The only way it will happen is if they lose enough business (something
    that's not yet happened) to the point where they have no choice.

    Then...something will be done.

    Do we have a long wait?

    Probably. Depends on how many merchants and affiliates get fed up with
    their poor tracking and go elsewhere.

    The problem is, they are so big and so popular, for every affiliate and
    merchant who leaves, 10 take their place.

    The campaign that would have to be waged to get people to stop using
    Clickbank would cost mega dollars to launch. I think even somebody like
    John Reese wouldn't find it economically feasible, unless he was the one
    coming up with an alternative to Clickbank.

    A lot of people thought PayDotCom was the solution. I honestly don't
    know why Mike hasn't done more to make it a serious contender. But the
    main problem is that merchants have to pay their own commissions. This
    is not an attractive option to first time merchants looking to get into the
    marketplace. So they go to Clickbank. On the flip side, affiliates don't want
    to promote products that they might not get paid for. I myself have been
    burned by PayDotCom merchants and thus will only promote products of
    people who I know personally.

    Bottom line...Clickbank has no real competition. And as long as that
    fact remains, there is no real incentive for them to do anything about any
    of their problems...if they do in fact exist.

    That is the reality that we have to deal with.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678038].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author simba999
    Good points about paydotcom too STeven....not sure what I will do then...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678092].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I agree, Jennifer. I'm tired of the apologists.

    I don't believe CB is intentionally "ripping off affiliates".

    However, their old, outdated tracking system is not reliably crediting affiliates and the result is the same as if they were stealing commissions.

    The complaints have increased as more affiliates are taking a look at their CB links. Sellers don't complain because the sales are going through - CB is happy because the sales are going through. The affiliate is left out of the loop because tracking links disappear randomly for some reason.

    Unlike other affiliate programs, CB has not upgraded it's tracking in years. If CB were as profitable as some think it would have competition by now. When PDC was started it was advertised as a replacement that would surpass CB - but it can't because it doesn't pay affiliates directly. That is CB's hook. From search options to find products to the tracking of sales, CB is an outdated site that refuses to invest in improvements.

    kay
    Signature
    Every child needs a pet because every family needs an optimist

    Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world for one dog.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678097].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author W.P. Allen
      We need more threads like this, not less!

      This is a business just like any other and if they cannot conduct their business properly then they need to be called out.

      People spend thousands of dollars promoting products through their system and expect their system to be effective.

      What if you invested in the stock market with an investment company and your stocks shot through the roof and you wanted to sell but you only get paid for 40% of your stocks total worth. You email your investment company (because for some reason they don't have a telephone number) and they send you an email back saying it's the economy's fault (or they don't respond at all). You'd definitely want to make a stink about it.

      Now imagine that this was happening to a lot of people. Do you think those people should just shrug their shoulders and forget about it.

      Clickbank should be harassed continuously until they fix this problem and if they don't fix the problem then everyone should dump them and find a reliable alternative.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678139].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jmn187
    My vote is there system. Its borderline stone age.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678113].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JordanFrancis
    There is obviously a problem.

    Those who declare there isn't just hasn't been effected yet

    So what ya gonna do about it?

    Whether the problem is intentional or not (I think not) the end result is the same = you not getting paid for work done.

    Clickbank, why have you forsaken us?!

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678138].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Chris Freville
    I met the Clickbank management team in London, personally, so I got to talk to them direct. I honestly dont think they would intentionally do such a thing
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678162].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Roy Carter
    Chris - I think most people realise that they are not intentionally ripping affiliates off, as has been said. But Steven is right, unless people start deserting them in droves (which has already started) then little will be done to force them to upgrade their system.

    I know that I and many, many others don't actually want to abandon them, but they are virtually forcing us to do so for future products because I believe they are well aware that there is a problem but they seem to want to bury their heads in the sand and hope it will just go away. It won't.

    If they responded to people's enquiries and concerns with the approach that they are aware of the problem and are working vigorously to sort it, then I think that people would feel a little more able to continue with them, knowing that the problem was being addressed.

    Instead they give glib answers. Sorry, but we have reached the stage where people are no longer prepared to accept that.
    Signature
    "How To Hang Out On Various Exotic Islands
    Whilst Still Making Shed Loads Of Money...and stuff!"


    Get your FREE ISSUE entitled...'A Quick, Easy $2,000 In Your Pocket By This Weekend!'
    >> ---> http://LettersFromASmallIsland.com/sq1.html <--- < <
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678210].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sajae102
    I was going to use Clickbank as a way to make sales, when I noticed that a lot of customers and publishers were complaining a lot about the products. The products at Clickbank are GARBAGE! They don't bother to screen their advertisers at all before accepting their campaign. In return, there are a lot more chargebacks, meaning in the end you will just be wasting your time.

    Also, Clickbank doesn't pay you unless you get sales using two different credit cards. i mean....most people who shop online use Paypal! I say create your own product and sale that...make an ebook, book, or cookbook and sell it online.
    Signature

    Need Quality 100% Copyscape Passed Original Health Articles for your website? Come check out this custom made informative health article pack-low prices!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678241].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mark .W. James
    you know whose a bigger lead shaver than clickbank?.. paydotcom!

    goto ejunkie.. its the best out there!.. for $5, they provide amazing features...
    simply put, you'd be an idiot to not use them.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678370].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author nmh
    OMG!!! What about Commission Junction or E-Junkie then? you all scared me to death as a newbie to use CB.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678387].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author One Inch Punch
      Originally Posted by nmh View Post

      OMG!!! What about Commission Junction or E-Junkie then? you all scared me to death as a newbie to use CB.
      I won't use CJ because I've promoted products they carry that they discontinued and did not notify me of it until a couple weeks later. Promotional money down the drain.

      FWIW, I'm with Steven. There's no monetary incentive for CB to shave sales and Steven laid out why perfectly.

      Having a slow week or a slow period doesn't mean CB is shaving sales. There's a lot of variables that go into this game and it would be wise to check them all out and get to the real root of the problem.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[683383].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Dellco
        I've heard of a bot that goes around harvesting/stealing CB IDs a while back, and there was not much anyone could do about it.

        I'm not sure how true this is.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[683404].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author cliffmaster
      Originally Posted by nmh View Post

      OMG!!! What about Commission Junction or E-Junkie then? you all scared me to death as a newbie to use CB.

      Same here. I just signed up with CB as an affiliate and then found this post. I'm stuck on what to do now.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[691684].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author wicked9690
    ClickBank may not be intentionally ripping affiliates off but they sure don't seem to be in any rush to try and permanently fix the tracking problems that many of us see on a daily basis.

    Like Steve said until ClickBank have some more direct competition they have no real reason to fix this. They still make their fees. They may lose some affiliates over this but more new ones come along everyday.
    Signature
    SublimeSEO.net - SEO services you can count on including our incredible SERP Ignition Package. Massive link diversity for one great price.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678410].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kkchoon
    I think many anti spyware and antivirus is blocking cookies from CPA network and Clickbank, may be this is one of the reason why many affiliate sales is not track correctly!
    Signature

    Powerful Indexer That Makes Your Backlinks Count ==> Nuclear Link Indexer

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678412].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JonStein
    Good Post, and Good responses:
    However, here is something I discovered on Clickbank. I set up to promote a product and readied the landing page, etc etc, then I tested the hoplink, to follow through all the way and make sure the clickbank/paypal page shows affilliate=*ME*. It did! HOWEVER: when i exited the page a popup came up, as they do, and offered a discount if I purchased it. I followed the discount page to ensure the affiliate link would also be on the payment page. BUT, when I arrived at the 'discount paypal page' affiliate=none . So I investigated a little further, and here is what I found. When the popup came up, and I clicked,
    it redirects to a NON-TRACKED page, in other words as if I entered the page directly and not through a hoplink. The redirected page was a totally different domain name. I do not think it is Clickbank, but it is the saavy marketers who set up redirect pages to avoid paying the affiliates.
    My advice is to follow all redirects and check to make sure the affiliate=*you* at the bottom of the paypal page. I am not sure if this solves the overall problem, but needless to say I will not promote a product that uses these redirects.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678422].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Joe Stewart
      Originally Posted by JonStein View Post

      Good Post, and Good responses:
      However, here is something I discovered on Clickbank. I set up to promote a product and readied the landing page, etc etc, then I tested the hoplink, to follow through all the way and make sure the clickbank/paypal page shows affilliate=*ME*. It did! HOWEVER: when i exited the page a popup came up, as they do, and offered a discount if I purchased it. I followed the discount page to ensure the affiliate link would also be on the payment page. BUT, when I arrived at the 'discount paypal page' affiliate=none . So I investigated a little further, and here is what I found. When the popup came up, and I clicked,
      it redirects to a NON-TRACKED page, in other words as if I entered the page directly and not through a hoplink. The redirected page was a totally different domain name. I do not think it is Clickbank, but it is the saavy marketers who set up redirect pages to avoid paying the affiliates.
      My advice is to follow all redirects and check to make sure the affiliate=*you* at the bottom of the paypal page. I am not sure if this solves the overall problem, but needless to say I will not promote a product that uses these redirects.

      Hi John,

      Actually, this is very common. I just learned about it from Keith Baxter a few weeks ago in an email he sent me, referring to how he chooses CPA offers. He says to stay away from offers like that for that very reason. He should know too, as he owns the CPA network, ModernClick.com .
      Signature

      My New "Share All" Blog Is Coming Soon! Online & Offline Marketing, More!

      http://www.UnCENTSored.com

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678464].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Ryan Campbell
        ClickBank has been ripping people off for far too long. Not only do they charge way too much they also keep any affiliate sales made by faulty affiliate links, at least the vendor should get that.

        If you want to use a better system which takes care of their vendors and affiliates you should check out PayGear.com

        Its free to sign up and you get far more features for about half the price.

        Warriors send me a PM and I will get you a $1000 promotion code
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678589].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author suaveymcsuave
        Isn't Clickbank a business? Aren't people in business to make money? I work (as a drone bee) for a multi-billion dollar company that has presence globally. It took them a few months to replace a missing doorknob from one of the lunchroom doors. Did the door still work? Yes. Was it causing plenty of complaints? Yes. But did the door still work?

        Pretty much it follows the old saying, "If it ain't broke then don't/why fix it".
        They still make money, the vendors still make money, affiliates still make money (albeit not consistently) so they probably don't care about the door right now.

        -Dave
        Signature

        I have a sloppy signature, so I print instead.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[680355].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author AdamWB
          K got a little update for you guys.

          Tried opening up another account as per the advice of a few members on this thread.

          Keep in mind I was getting several thousands hops and several weeks would go by before getting 1 sale per product with my other account. Within hours of opening my other account, 40 hops later, I get a sale. I only switched over one of my products to test this, but you can be sure I'm moving everything over to the new account again. Take it for what its worth, but I have absolutely nothing to gain in lying about any of this.

          Yea, I mean there's not alot we can do except piss and moan right now. But I hope this shuts up some of you naysayers that think CB needs excuses for their actions. I had a CB account for several years making several thousand per month before this happened, so those of you that think you're immune, think again.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[681784].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
            Adam,

            Originally Posted by AdamWB View Post

            K got a little update for you guys.

            Tried opening up another account as per the advice of a few members on this thread.

            Keep in mind I was getting several thousands hops and several weeks would go by before getting 1 sale per product with my other account. Within hours of opening my other account, 40 hops later, I get a sale. I only switched over one of my products to test this, but you can be sure I'm moving everything over to the new account again. Take it for what its worth, but I have absolutely nothing to gain in lying about any of this.

            Yea, I mean there's not alot we can do except piss and moan right now. But I hope this shuts up some of you naysayers that think CB needs excuses for their actions. I had a CB account for several years making several thousand per month before this happened, so those of you that think you're immune, think again.
            I'm glad that you took some good advice. You'll see that this new account will have good conversion rates for a month or two and then you will need to open another acct
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[681805].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author AdamWB
              Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

              Adam,



              I'm glad that you took some good advice. You'll see that this new account will have good conversion rates for a month or two and then you will need to open another acct
              Hey thanks for the heads up man. Its going to suck changing accounts every so often, but what can you do?

              Is there anything I need to know about switching accounts? Can I use the same payee address and name, and just switch the account nickname? Or does everything need to be different? Even the IP?

              For this one I just put it in one of my business accounts, but if I have to keep switching it, it would be annoying to have to set up a new LLC every time CB decides to start stealing again. What steps do you take to open another account? Feel free to PM me, or post on here, either way =)
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[681831].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
                Well, I've always set them up with the same information...

                Someone told me yesterday that it could be against ClickBanks TOS to do that, but it is against my TOS to steal my money
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[681850].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author AdamWB
                  Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

                  Well, I've always set them up with the same information...

                  Someone told me yesterday that it could be against ClickBanks TOS to do that, but it is against my TOS to steal my money
                  Cool, that makes it easier. And if its against their TOS I'm sure they would have caught you by now and banned the accounts, in which case they haven't. So I'm sure your safe =)
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[681859].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
                    Yeah, I'm hoping that it fixes itself soon or they resolve the problem. When I first started marketing ClickBank products and had money rolling in, I was so excited and it was like the holy grail.

                    I'd like to get back to a scenario where I could trust them to not screw me out of my cash again

                    Originally Posted by AdamWB View Post

                    Cool, that makes it easier. And if its against their TOS I'm sure they would have caught you by now and banned the accounts, in which case they haven't. So I'm sure your safe =)
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[681874].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                      Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

                      Yeah, I'm hoping that it fixes itself soon or they resolve the problem. When I first started marketing ClickBank products and had money rolling in, I was so excited and it was like the holy grail.

                      I'd like to get back to a scenario where I could trust them to not screw me out of my cash again
                      Jeremy, needless to say, all of this overwhelming evidence (how long can one
                      person stay in denial) is making me more than just a little sick over this whole
                      thing. Fortunately, I rely so little on Clickbank these days that it really doesn't
                      affect me much. But still, it's obvious this needs to be fixed.

                      I have made Jen aware of this problem and this thread and have yet to
                      hear back from her.

                      That bothers me as she usually gets back to me right away.

                      I don't know if that in itself means anything but needless to say, I'm not
                      happy about any of this.

                      I still don't think intentional stealing is going on, but I am convinced that
                      for some reason, problems creep into old accounts causing them not to
                      function any longer.

                      Of course this could all be because of what one member pointed out about
                      somebody hijacking high converting accounts. I'm no longer ruling that
                      out as nobody else should either.

                      If I had the time, I would dedicate all my hours to investigating this and
                      getting to the bottom of it.

                      I just don't.

                      But I am going to keep writing to Jen until I hear back from her.

                      Yeah, something is very wrong somewhere.
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[681890].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author psresearch
              Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

              Adam,



              I'm glad that you took some good advice. You'll see that this new account will have good conversion rates for a month or two and then you will need to open another acct
              So does that mean you don't go back to a prior account at some point?
              You just keep opening new ones?

              The reason I ask is because I'm trying to understand if opening up say 20 accounts and then rotating the links and passing tracking ids if necessary would work?
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[693390].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Frank Bruno
            Originally Posted by AdamWB View Post

            K got a little update for you guys.

            Tried opening up another account as per the advice of a few members on this thread.

            Keep in mind I was getting several thousands hops and several weeks would go by before getting 1 sale per product with my other account. Within hours of opening my other account, 40 hops later, I get a sale. I only switched over one of my products to test this, but you can be sure I'm moving everything over to the new account again. Take it for what its worth, but I have absolutely nothing to gain in lying about any of this.

            Yea, I mean there's not alot we can do except piss and moan right now. But I hope this shuts up some of you naysayers that think CB needs excuses for their actions. I had a CB account for several years making several thousand per month before this happened, so those of you that think you're immune, think again.
            I can attest to this as I've done the exact same thing a few weeks ago by opening up another account and changing my hop I.D and sure enough the sales started coming in again.

            Now after about 3 weeks the same thing appears to be happeing again.

            Frank Bruno
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[681865].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author nmh
      Originally Posted by JonStein View Post

      Good Post, and Good responses:
      However, here is something I discovered on Clickbank. I set up to promote a product and readied the landing page, etc etc, then I tested the hoplink, to follow through all the way and make sure the clickbank/paypal page shows affilliate=*ME*. It did! HOWEVER: when i exited the page a popup came up, as they do, and offered a discount if I purchased it. I followed the discount page to ensure the affiliate link would also be on the payment page. BUT, when I arrived at the 'discount paypal page' affiliate=none . So I investigated a little further, and here is what I found. When the popup came up, and I clicked,
      it redirects to a NON-TRACKED page, in other words as if I entered the page directly and not through a hoplink. The redirected page was a totally different domain name. I do not think it is Clickbank, but it is the saavy marketers who set up redirect pages to avoid paying the affiliates.
      My advice is to follow all redirects and check to make sure the affiliate=*you* at the bottom of the paypal page. I am not sure if this solves the overall problem, but needless to say I will not promote a product that uses these redirects.
      I think you might have hit the nail on the head!!! This could be HUGE!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678745].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
    Set up new accounts with new hoplinks....

    I must have 30 accts on clickbank now. Whenever they start with the shaving shit, I just open a new acct, change out my hoplinks, and my conversions go back to normal.

    After posting about this a few months ago, other people tried the same thing and had the same results.

    Anyone that says that Clickbank isn't screwing their affiliates is in denial.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678461].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AdamWB
      Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

      Set up new accounts with new hoplinks....

      I must have 30 accts on clickbank now. Whenever they start with the shaving shit, I just open a new acct, change out my hoplinks, and my conversions go back to normal.

      After posting about this a few months ago, other people tried the same thing and had the same results.

      Anyone that says that Clickbank isn't screwing their affiliates is in denial.
      Jeremy,

      That's a good idea, and very interesting. I'm going to try it and see if it works. If you're theory is correct, the obvious problem lies in CB's shady business practices, not some faulty cookie/tracking system.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678481].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author usfemail
        Yeah I agree with everyone about Clickbank's tracking not being correct. I have never gone more than two days without a sale. Now it has been 10 days and no sale! It looks like I have already started promoting other affiliate products. However most of my income currently (used) to come from Clickbank.

        It is very discouraging as I put in a lot of hard work and time online only to see my CB account with all zero's. That has not happened in a long time. I need to hurry up and change my affiliate programs today!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[683356].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

      Set up new accounts with new hoplinks....

      I must have 30 accts on clickbank now. Whenever they start with the shaving shit, I just open a new acct, change out my hoplinks, and my conversions go back to normal.

      After posting about this a few months ago, other people tried the same thing and had the same results.

      Anyone that says that Clickbank isn't screwing their affiliates is in denial.
      Jeremy, you know I have the utmost respect for you, but what is Clickbank's
      incentive to shave commissions? As I illustrated in my post above, Clickbank
      makes the same amount of money per sale whether the merchant gets
      credit for the sale completely or splits it with the affiliate.

      So what is their motive?

      If you can give me any rational kind of one, I can at least try to wrap my
      head around this. But right now, I just can't because it makes no sense
      business wise.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678500].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
        Steve,

        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Jeremy, you know I have the utmost respect for you, but what is Clickbank's
        incentive to shave commissions? As I illustrated in my post above, Clickbank
        makes the same amount of money per sale whether the merchant gets
        credit for the sale completely or splits it with the affiliate.

        So what is their motive?

        If you can give me any rational kind of one, I can at least try to wrap my
        head around this. But right now, I just can't because it makes no sense
        business wise.
        It doesn't have to make sense...

        Here is what I can tell you. When it first started, I had one clickbank account that was getting over 1000 hops a day between 3 products. I believe all of them were converting at the lowest of 1:80 so, I was making 10 sales a day on this account on average. Then a 3 week stretch with not one sale.

        So.....

        I opened a new account and switched up my hoplinks on my landing pages directing them to my new acct.

        Guess what happened?

        Then the same "dry spell" hit one of my other accts. So, again I opened a new acct and had the same results.

        At this point, clickbank sends me so many wiretransfers and paper checks that my bank probably thinks I am laundering money lol...

        Other people have done the same thing with the same results. So, this isn't a "one off" type of deal.

        They are stealing your money, my money, and everyone elses money. At this point, it is so evident that it doesn't even deserve or need any discussion.

        I'm not bitching about it. I'll keep opening accounts and keep raising their administrative costs for as long as need be.

        I would delete all of my accts with them and move on, but I'm not an idiot. Even with the shaving they do, they still give me a considerable amount of cash each and every month that I would deserve to be kicked in the nuts if I walked away from it.

        Sure, their are other alternatives, such as Paydotcom, but have you seen any of the sales pages there? They look like 4 year olds threw them together.

        So, for the time being clickbank is a necessary evil for me.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678521].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author hernan10
          How about this....

          guy A goes to make a purchase....
          guy A pays $97 to clickbank.
          Clickbank redirects guy A to the thank you page...
          Clickbank doesnt inform either the affiliate or the owner that a sale was made.
          Clickbank is richer by $97

          ?
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678527].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Johnathan
            Originally Posted by hernan10 View Post

            How about this....

            guy A goes to make a purchase....
            guy A pays $97 to clickbank.
            Clickbank redirects guy A to the thank you page...
            Clickbank doesnt inform either the affiliate or the owner that a sale was made.
            Clickbank is richer by $97

            ?
            Hi,

            That is true as well, however 'easier' to track and could get CB into hot water very quickly if discovered.

            All that would have to happen is one vendor keep a close watch on the sales->download ratio, and if he started noticing license keys/etc being generated that didn't have corresponding sales, could question it very easily.

            However, there are companies that do that
            Signature
            Make money from writing, find out how now.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678543].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author hernan10
              Originally Posted by Johnathan View Post

              Hi,

              That is true as well, however 'easier' to track and could get CB into hot water very quickly if discovered.

              All that would have to happen is one vendor keep a close watch on the sales->download ratio, and if he started noticing license keys/etc being generated that didn't have corresponding sales, could question it very easily.

              However, there are companies that do that

              Easier to track suspicious activity, true
              Blaming clickbank for this? nope!

              They could easily say somone hacked your server, the page was not no-index or anything really... nothing to implicate them...
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678554].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

          Steve,



          It doesn't have to make sense...

          Here is what I can tell you. When it first started, I had one clickbank account that was getting over 1000 hops a day between 3 products. I believe all of them were converting at the lowest of 1:80 so, I was making 10 sales a day on this account on average. Then a 3 week stretch with not one sale.

          So.....

          I opened a new account and switched up my hoplinks on my landing pages directing them to my new acct.

          Guess what happened?

          Then the same "dry spell" hit one of my other accts. So, again I opened a new acct and had the same results.

          At this point, clickbank sends me so many wiretransfers and paper checks that my bank probably thinks I am laundering money lol...

          Other people have done the same thing with the same results. So, this isn't a "one off" type of deal.

          They are stealing your money, my money, and everyone elses money. At this point, it is so evident that it doesn't even deserve or need any discussion.

          I'm not bitching about it. I'll keep opening accounts and keep raising their administrative costs for as long as need be.

          I would delete all of my accts with them and move on, but I'm not an idiot. Even with the shaving they do, they still give me a considerable amount of cash each and every month that I would deserve to be kicked in the nuts if I walked away from it.

          Sure, their are other alternatives, such as Paydotcom, but have you seen any of the sales pages there? They look like 4 year olds threw them together.

          So, for the time being clickbank is a necessary evil for me.

          I don't even know how to respond to this. If this is true, then this is
          one serious criminal activity and needs to be investigated by the proper
          authorities. Maybe I'm just in denial. I can't imagine a company with their
          reputation and the number of merchants and affiliates that they have to
          risk everything doing something like this. Because if it can be proven (how
          would you even prove this????) it would be devastating to the company.

          Well, like I said, if we want whatever is going on to stop we need to take
          action.

          And yes, I have seen the PayDotCom sales pages and products...another
          reason I promote very little from them.

          Man if this is really true (I'm still not going to bet my life on it that it is)
          then this is one very sad state of affairs.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678536].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author jcaviani
            Not intentional? Just how many complaint emails and forum comments does it take before it's intentional?

            I think it becomes more than intentional when there are repeated problems over many users reported in many venues that are not addressed by some sort of public relations effort. Sending canned emails implying you are some sort of banjo stummin' idiot is not a solution.

            Maybe the clickbank people have been watching too many government bailouts and they have delusions about being too big to fail.

            Frankly, the cookie method has too many pitfalls, not the least of which is a dollar hungry security industry set out to blur reality with their particular brand of fear mongering.

            It never ceases to amaze me how many people will trip all over themselves to ignore the obvious and how much fiction has been written disguised as a rationale for less than truthful behavior.

            The simple truth is simple and pathetic: If the problem were cutting into clickbank profits they would be on it faster than a dung beatle on dung, but since it's only affecting a bunch of proletariat affiliate plebes, let's let them look like a bunch of neophyte complainers while we appear to be above the fray sending out canned how-to instructions while we really do nothing except lie and steal.

            How many times did the FTC ignore the case against Madoff that was gift wrapped and delivered on a silver platter?
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678558].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
              Originally Posted by jcaviani View Post

              Not intentional? Just how many complaint emails and forum comments does it take before it's intentional?
              No amount of complaint e-mails and forum comments can make it intentional... only INTENT to deceive on Clickbank's part makes it intentional. And I for one, am not convinced this is some big scam on CB's end.

              It's down to a lousy, outdated tracking service and set up on their server.
              Signature

              Bare Murkage.........

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678562].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author forest1
                I found this thread interesting, I went from $150-$200 to nothing for a month and I have checked a lot of my affiliate links, in fact I have more active articles now than I did then but much fewer sales if any.

                Just out of interest if you open a new account can you use the same hoplink a I have way too many links out there now to change them all individually
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678594].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
              If you are getting a SUBSTANTIAL amount of traffic to your account and in the past had a decent conversion rate but it has suddenly fallen off the fact of the earth...try setting up a new account and see what happens.

              If you are getting 30 hops a day or some low number like that, you really can't guage anything with that,but if you are getting 100+ hops a day to a specific product and "all the sudden" are not getting any sales, give it a shot. I know of at least 10 people that have had a similar experience.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678563].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Hamida Harland
                Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

                If you are getting a SUBSTANTIAL amount of traffic to your account and in the past had a decent conversion rate but it has suddenly fallen off the fact of the earth...try setting up a new account and see what happens.

                If you are getting 30 hops a day or some low number like that, you really can't guage anything with that,but if you are getting 100+ hops a day to a specific product and "all the sudden" are not getting any sales, give it a shot. I know of at least 10 people that have had a similar experience.
                Yep, I'm with Jeremy on this one. Over the past 2 months I've opened a new account nearly every 2 weeks and it works. And these aren't accounts with a small amount of hops either - I have accounts earning $200+ a day consistently that go down to $0, and then back to normal as soon as I open a new account. Thank goodness for my link cloaker or I'd be forever changing links :rolleyes:. Sucks that I've had to go back to getting checks though because I really liked direct deposit.
                Signature
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678584].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author AdamWB
                Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

                If you are getting a SUBSTANTIAL amount of traffic to your account and in the past had a decent conversion rate but it has suddenly fallen off the fact of the earth...try setting up a new account and see what happens.

                If you are getting 30 hops a day or some low number like that, you really can't guage anything with that,but if you are getting 100+ hops a day to a specific product and "all the sudden" are not getting any sales, give it a shot. I know of at least 10 people that have had a similar experience.
                Ya, I'm going to try this today if I have the time. I'd be happy if I were getting a sale every 100 hops like I used to. It's now to the point where I'm getting thousands of hops before I get 1 commission sale. I'll report back later with my findings.

                Also, I'm not sure how my original post was not proof enough for some of you guys. I got legitimate sales, and was not paid for them. There was no cookie / tracking issues, I just did NOT get paid. The only thing I could do to prove it further is to set up some camtasia video showing the whole process. And maybe it has come to that.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678585].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author ahefner33
                  The thing is with all this, you can't really do anything about it. Even if you say get a mass of the people using them to stop, how do you go about that? Who needs to be informed about this so it can draw CB's attention? I kind of see this like with Adsense. People get nervous that their account can get banned for no obvious reason, so they want to switch but where can you go to find someone that equals Adsense?

                  Someone smart and had the knowledge/resources to start up a similar program like CB could make a killing.

                  I don't know. We can say all we want about them but who has the answer to start something that would draw attention to them and force them to change?
                  Signature

                  Adam Hefner

                  http://foodgawker.com/ - Warning - Don't go to if you are hawngry

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678644].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Bryan Zimmerman
                    It seems to happen to me like once every three weeks that the sales will just slow WAY down. You can just tell when it's happening because you'll have a couple products that just don't produce sales for a day or so like they normally do even though the hops are there.

                    Instead of changing links, I send them an email letting them know that their tracking is screwing up again, I have proof of someone buying through my link and it not showing up and that they need to get their shit together and fix what ever the problem is because they are not paying me my money like they should be.

                    Now I'll admit that may sound stupid, but EVERY time I have done this (3 so far), in less than 24 hours my sales go right back to where they were. So i'm not so sure that it isn't being done on purpose. I don't know how the sales could just get "turned back on" like that every single time it has happened.

                    I have the same account now that I started with months ago. I haven't ever changed it.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678688].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author jcaviani
                    No amount of complaint e-mails and forum comments can make it intentional... only INTENT to deceive on Clickbank's part makes it intentional. And I for one, am not convinced this is some big scam on CB's end.
                    ?
                    I think you missed my point. Unintentional means - you didn't mean to. How many "I didn't mean tos" do you need before it becomes intentional?

                    If you have droves of people saying your system is shaving sales and you do NOTHING except send canned emails saying, is your computer turned on, you DO mean to.

                    It may not be a clickbank scam, but as in politics, it's ultimately what people believe to be true that has the major affect.

                    The only way affiliates, the lowest rung on the food chain, will have an effect is if fewer people promote clickbank based affiliate products. Right now, there is enough new meat coming into the affiliate market every day for clickbank to laugh all the way to the bank. They don't have to care if YOU get paid because THEY still do.

                    But, as soon as THEIR profits are threatened in ANY way, their tune will magically change and some major pronouncement will suddenly appear as to how there is a problem afterall. We don't know how it went unnoticed, but now because we have all been born again, we are suddenly on your side.

                    Bottom line: Clickbank is engaged in a public relations game of brinksmanship and they will do nothing until someone forces their hand. They will atempt to stay above the fray and if they say anyhting at all, they will claim it's only a few neophytes having problems with their browsers or hoplinks. (sound familar)

                    You don't have to look too far to see how money changes people.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678691].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                      Now I'll admit that may sound stupid, but EVERY time I have done this (3 so far), in less than 24 hours my sales go right back to where they were. So i'm not so sure that it isn't being done on purpose. I don't know how the sales could just get "turned back on" like that every single time it has happened.
                      That's interesting. I've never made the claim of "intentional theft" as I don't have the data to back it up (though some others here might).

                      The comment above sounds like a "reset". Makes me wonder if the problem is a bug in their system that they know about but only fix when it's pointed out to them.

                      I had the same experience with a new account that quickly had several hundred in sales and then died. In my case I changed to an old account I hadn't been using for a while and the sales picked up again.

                      Has anyone tried rotating accounts rather than opening new ones? Just curious.

                      kay
                      Signature
                      Every child needs a pet because every family needs an optimist

                      Saving one dog will not save the world....but will forever change the world for one dog.
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678730].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Bryan Zimmerman
                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        That's interesting. I've never made the claim of "intentional theft" as I don't have the data to back it up (though some others here might).

                        The comment above sounds like a "reset". Makes me wonder if the problem is a bug in their system that they know about but only fix when it's pointed out to them.

                        I had the same experience with a new account that quickly had several hundred in sales and then died. In my case I changed to an old account I hadn't been using for a while and the sales picked up again.

                        Has anyone tried rotating accounts rather than opening new ones? Just curious.

                        kay
                        Thats pretty much what I was getting at. I think they have a way to "reset" the accounts so you don't have to change accounts again. It's the only thing that I can figure out as to why it almost immediately starts making sales like normal again once I email them.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678742].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author AdamWB
                          Originally Posted by Bryan Zimmerman View Post

                          Thats pretty much what I was getting at. I think they have a way to "reset" the accounts so you don't have to change accounts again. It's the only thing that I can figure out as to why it almost immediately starts making sales like normal again once I email them.
                          Feel lucky they are at least getting back to you. In my email to them, I showed them 100% proof of what was going on. I wasn't rude or offensive, I just laid out out the facts, showed them the transaction #'s etc etc.

                          It's been over a week and I have yet to hear anything back. Hmmm....
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678751].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author Bryan Zimmerman
                            Originally Posted by AdamWB View Post

                            Feel lucky they are at least getting back to you. In my email to them, I showed them 100% proof of what was going on. I wasn't rude or offensive, I just laid out out the facts, showed them the transaction #'s etc etc.

                            It's been over a week and I have yet to hear anything back. Hmmm....

                            Don't get me wrong, they don't respond to me. I've only got one email that was some bullshit automated resonse. I wrote them back and told them I didn't want their automated crap and that I wanted a real answer. I never got one. What I did get was my sales to start showing up again.

                            Now I know that clickbank is not "afraid" of me by any means. So I know they weren't like "Oh we better fix his account", what I think is that they know there is a problem, and they will "reset" what ever they reset to make it work again or clear out what ever is screwing up. Instead of asking for a response, I just told them I KNOW something is wrong and it needs to be fixed. Less than 24 hours later it was, all three times.

                            Just something to try and see if it works for others.
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678766].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Hamida Harland
                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


                        Has anyone tried rotating accounts rather than opening new ones? Just curious.
                        I have because I've always been hoping to use some of my older accounts which get paid by direct deposit. Checks aren't a great option for me because I've had checks go missing and they often take up to 2 weeks or more to arrive (I like to know exactly what day I'm getting my money). It didn't make any difference though - things only seem to get better when I open a new account.
                        Signature
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678784].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                          They must be getting hammered with calls because I'm trying to get through
                          to them and keep getting an "all circuits busy" message.

                          Yesterday, I was on hold a half hour before I finally just gave up.

                          With all these problems, my post office lost one of my Clickbank checks that
                          should have come Saturday. It's now Wednesday and still no sign of it.

                          With my luck, they delivered it to somebody else and they went and cashed
                          it.

                          Oh what I'd give for some competent services in this world.
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678796].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author ripsnorta2
                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                        That's interesting. I've never made the claim of "intentional theft" as I don't have the data to back it up (though some others here might).

                        The comment above sounds like a "reset". Makes me wonder if the problem is a bug in their system that they know about but only fix when it's pointed out to them.

                        I had the same experience with a new account that quickly had several hundred in sales and then died. In my case I changed to an old account I hadn't been using for a while and the sales picked up again.

                        Has anyone tried rotating accounts rather than opening new ones? Just curious.

                        kay

                        That idea occurred to me earlier in the thread. There's a class of software bug that manifests after a program -- or in this case, an account? -- has been operating for a while. It happens when a variable in the application increments past its maximum limit, and screws up any further calculations.

                        One of the most famous was with the Patriot Missiles in the first gulf war. They were sitting at operational status for days and weeks rather than the normal case of just being active for hours. This caused an important counter to overrun and end up back at zero, messing up the navigation with the result that they missed what they were aiming at. A simple reset fixed the problem, until a more permanent solution was found.

                        It seems there is a consensus here that after a certain number of sales have been made, or a certain amount of time has passed, that perhaps a counter or index in the software is incrementing past its limit and is messing with the affiliate tracking.

                        A new account starts at zero and thus works properly for a time until the right set of circumstances force it into (an uncaptured) error. This might also explain why some affiliates don't have problems. They might not meet all the requirements for the issue to occur.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[696477].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
      Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

      Set up new accounts with new hoplinks....

      I must have 30 accts on clickbank now. Whenever they start with the shaving shit, I just open a new acct, change out my hoplinks, and my conversions go back to normal.

      After posting about this a few months ago, other people tried the same thing and had the same results.

      Anyone that says that Clickbank isn't screwing their affiliates is in denial.
      I've got to agree with this.

      The tracking system is the problem and the problem is certainly not caused by affiliates. Who is responsible here?

      If someone eats food from a stall and dies from food poisoning, who's to blame? (By the way, 2 people here in Singapore died from eating an Indian cuisine. 40+ people were hospitalized. I think it's clear who's to blame)

      Someone has to to be responsible and it's certainly not affiliates.

      Fabian
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[688997].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

      Set up new accounts with new hoplinks....

      I must have 30 accts on clickbank now. Whenever they start with the shaving shit, I just open a new acct, change out my hoplinks, and my conversions go back to normal.

      After posting about this a few months ago, other people tried the same thing and had the same results.

      Anyone that says that Clickbank isn't screwing their affiliates is in denial.
      30 accounts! For real? Do you have to create a new email account as well?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[695131].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ankur sharma
    Hmmm may be cookie stuffing is stealing your sales.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678493].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    I'm with Jeremy here..

    I wouldn't say clickbank is keeping the commissh.. but I DO now 100% that the detail he described above works..

    My partner and I constantly test this on 2 domains of ours.. the moment we see some shady stats, we jump into the link cloaker.. switch all the hops to a fresh or other account...

    POOF... conversions stay normal....

    There is NO question on my end that clickbank has "tracking issues"...

    We work too hard and too smart to let it affect us on a grand scale, but if you aren't being pro-active about this, it can cripple your business. It would have crippled mine if we didn't take regular preventative action.

    Peace

    Jay
    Signature

    Bare Murkage.........

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678531].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

      I'm with Jeremy here..

      I wouldn't say clickbank is keeping the commissh.. but I DO now 100% that the detail he described above works..

      My partner and I constantly test this on 2 domains of ours.. the moment we see some shady stats, we jump into the link cloaker.. switch all the hops to a fresh or other account...

      POOF... conversions stay normal....

      There is NO question on my end that clickbank has "tracking issues"...

      We work too hard and too smart to let it affect us on a grand scale, but if you aren't being pro-active about this, it can cripple your business. It would have crippled mine if we didn't take regular preventative action.

      Peace

      Jay

      Jay, you and Jeremy are two of my most trusted folks here. If you
      say this is going on then I guess I just must be a damn fool to believe
      otherwise.

      I honestly don't even know what else to say.

      My only hope is that it's not an intentional thing on Clickbank's part and
      simply something to do with old accounts, though I can't imagine what
      would cause this.

      If however, it turns out that there is wrong doing and it can be proven,
      you can be assured that I will do what I can to warn others.

      But until I have proof of wrongdoing, (I don't want to get sued for
      defamation) I'm just going to have to sit tight.

      Oh, and Clickbank is aware of this thread.

      I just hope that they take it seriously.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678551].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    With my important niche sites/accounts etc...

    We use a link cloaker, so we can go into the dashboard and quickly edit out the faulty CB I.D. and place a new one in there.. works a charm and speeds up the process... not to mention hides ugly hoplinks

    Peace

    Jay
    Signature

    Bare Murkage.........

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678617].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author forest1
      Thanks for info I will be trying these new ideas tonight, if only I had thought about that in the beginning its a lotta hop links
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678635].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TerryTelford
    Hi Adam

    I think we all have a beef with ClickBank in one way or another. I have experienced the same issues as you have with sales not getting properly credited. But my biggest beef as a ClickBank publisher is the "stupid" returns.

    When I say "stupid" I'm referring to the reason for the return. ClickBank has refunded customers on more than one occassion with the customer's reason being "I don't know what I ordered."

    2Checkout has a far supperior system where they work with the publisher and allow you to contact the customer and see if you can help, before simply issuing a refund.

    So I am in the process of migrating all of my business over to PayPal and will be using PayDotCom to track my affiliates. Nothing is perfect, but I've had enough "stupid" for 2 lifetimes

    Talk again soon.

    Enjoy your day!
    Terry
    Signature

    Listen To "The $50 Millionaire" Free
    http://www.TerryTelford.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678724].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kkchoon
    Apparently Jeremy is very true about this... see the rip off report:

    Rip-off Report: Clickbank.com - Click Bank - CB - Affiliate Marketing WARNING: Clickbank.com Is Stealing Money From Affiliates - Click Bank Shaves Commission Boise Idaho

    I can't imagine Clickbank doing this, if they don't stop ripping people off, I'm afraid people will start to file law suit against them, very soon!

    Meanwhile, we just have to keep creating new accounts!
    Signature

    Powerful Indexer That Makes Your Backlinks Count ==> Nuclear Link Indexer

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678872].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Trader54
    I started with clickbank years ago and heard these same stories back then. Yet clickbank has grown bigger then ever.

    I have had the same account since day one and the past 3 weeks have been my best this year so far. So no need to change accounts here.

    Why keep bitching about it with these threads if you don't like clickbank just move on to some other program.

    And doesn't this break rule #1? Or I guess clickbank is the exception.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678880].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      The answer is easy....

      Originally Posted by Trader54 View Post

      I started with clickbank years ago and heard these same stories back then. Yet clickbank has grown bigger then ever.

      I have had the same account since day one and the past 3 weeks have been my best this year so far. So no need to change accounts here.

      Why keep bitching about it with these threads if you don't like clickbank just move on to some other program.

      And doesn't this break rule #1? Or I guess clickbank is the exception.

      Because there is not a good alternative to them. It's highly unlikely that I'm suddenly just going to stop promoting clickbank products and forfeit the thousands of dollars a month that they pay me lol

      Like I said, I'll continue changing accounts and increasing their administrative costs...what difference does it make to me?

      If you are not having a problem with them, that's great! But, why come into a thread and try to down talk the rest of us when you have some fairly seasoned people saying that clickbank is skimming and that it is for the most part proven?

      If you want to think the best, have at it. As for myself, I prefer to base
      my decisions and thoughts on reality.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678913].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Trader54
        Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

        If you are not having a problem with them, that's great! But, why come into a thread and try to down talk the rest of us when you have some fairly seasoned people saying that clickbank is skimming and that it is for the most part proven?

        If you want to think the best, have at it. As for myself, I prefer to base
        my decisions and thoughts on reality.

        Mine are based on reality to.

        And from my understanding this forum is open to opposite opinions
        and experiences.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678923].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Well, I just got off the phone with them and got all my accounts switched to
          direct deposit. I'm fed up with my post office more than I'm annoyed with
          Clickbank.

          I don't know, say what you want, but in all the years I've been dealing with
          them, they've been nothing but polite and helpful over the phone. I've never
          had a problem that wasn't resolved.

          I just don't know what to make of any of this.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678934].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Hamida Harland
          Originally Posted by Trader54 View Post

          Mine are based on reality to.

          And from my understanding this forum is open to opposite opinions
          and experiences.
          Of course, and I do believe that not everyone is experiencing these problems. However it's not that we don't like Clickbank (I certainly do) - people just want to see some solutions to the problem.
          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678943].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
          Hello,

          Originally Posted by Trader54 View Post

          Mine are based on reality to.

          And from my understanding this forum is open to opposite opinions
          and experiences.
          nobody said that opinions and experiences were not welcome or encouraged. But, I'm a little more than fed up with the "There is nothing wrong with clickbank" defense. Obviously there is, if it were not true then I wouldn't be able to for the most part control my income by switching accounts.

          I'm not the only one doing it either. There were 3 other posters just in this thread that have reported the same experience.

          If your experience has been good, that is great. But, don't try to convince the people that are getting screwed that nothing is going on, because there is something going on.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[679068].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AdamWB
      Originally Posted by Trader54 View Post

      I started with clickbank years ago and heard these same stories back then. Yet clickbank has grown bigger then ever.

      I have had the same account since day one and the past 3 weeks have been my best this year so far. So no need to change accounts here.

      Why keep bitching about it with these threads if you don't like clickbank just move on to some other program.

      And doesn't this break rule #1? Or I guess clickbank is the exception.
      Lol, read my first post. I used to be in your same position. Thought everyone was delusional, and it made no sense. Until it started happening to me. Mind you I was with CB for several years before it just started recently happening. So don't think your immune by any means.

      People who are skeptical of all this, just look at the proof. You have some pretty well respected members of WF that are being affected by this. Your opinion is your own, but don't tell us to turn the other cheek and ignore the issue. Maybe it will take CB picking hundreds of dollars per day in sales from under your nose to believe it.

      I hope the link in that other post is true. Involving the FBI may be what turns the tide. Only time will tell.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678940].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Trader54
        Originally Posted by AdamWB View Post

        Lol, read my first post. I used to be in your same position. Thought everyone was delusional, and it made no sense. Until it started happening to me. Mind you I was with CB for several years before it just started recently happening. So don't think your immune by any means.

        People who are skeptical of all this, just look at the proof. You have some pretty well respected members of WF that are being affected by this. Your opinion is your own, but don't tell us to turn the other cheek and ignore the issue. Maybe it will take CB picking hundreds of dollars per day in sales from under your nose to believe it.

        I hope the link in that other post is true. Involving the FBI may be what turns the tide. Only time will tell.
        I been with them over 5 years now with the same account. I heard horror stories back then.

        I hope your not referring to the rip off report. That is a joke. Anyone can post whatever they like to that site. If you believed all the horror reports you can read about paypal and lot of other payment processors who would you use?

        I still have not heard of any affiliate network better then clickbank.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678973].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author kkchoon
          Originally Posted by Trader54 View Post

          I been with them over 5 years now with the same account. I heard horror stories back then.

          I hope your not referring to the rip off report. That is a joke. Anyone can post whatever they like to that site. If you believed all the horror reports you can read about paypal and lot of other payment processors who would you use?

          I still have not heard of any affiliate network better then clickbank.

          Just a quick question, you never experience a sudden drop in sale? Why did Jeremy switch account and all the sudden the conversion back again?

          I can only imagine you make a lot of money and lost count...
          Signature

          Powerful Indexer That Makes Your Backlinks Count ==> Nuclear Link Indexer

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678996].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Trader54
            Originally Posted by kkchoon View Post

            Just a quick question, you never experience a sudden drop in sale? Why did Jeremy switch account and all the sudden the conversion back again?

            I can only imagine you make a lot of money and lost count...
            Good question.

            Yes I have had wide swings, I have 4 figure days and I have had 0 dollar days.

            Even if I looked at my stats and compared week to week I could be pulling my
            hair out. Just the other nite I looked at my last 3 years of data. Total traffic
            year to year and my total sales. Now thats on a yearly basis, and I can't believe
            how close it is as far as revenue per visitor.

            When I see some post and say I have 250 hops and no sales what is wrong clickbank is
            ripping me off. I have experienced the same thing, then I could get 25 hits and have 4
            sales. You have to look at it more long term. Traffic quality changes so much.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[679033].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Trader54 View Post

          I been with them over 5 years now with the same account. I heard horror stories back then.

          I hope your not referring to the rip off report. That is a joke. Anyone can post whatever they like to that site. If you believed all the horror reports you can read about paypal and lot of other payment processors who would you use?

          I still have not heard of any affiliate network better then clickbank.
          And that really is the biggest problem and the cause of all this frustration.

          There is simply nobody better.

          If I'm wrong, tell me who it is?

          Tell me who will pay your affiliates for you.

          Tell me who has as popular a marketplace, where you at least have a shot
          at somebody finding your product and promoting it.

          Tell me what other marketplace, as an affiliate, you don't have to worry
          about the merchant not paying you the commissions you're owed. My
          experiences with PayDotcom have made it so that the ONLY way I will
          promote anything from that place is if I know the merchant personally.

          So please...somebody tell me who is better.

          That's why I said earlier that whining about this problem (I agree there
          are problems, though I am not exactly sure I agree with what they are
          or if they are intentional) does no good.

          Come up with solutions.

          Get a hold of a big name marketer or group of marketers who would be
          willing to make enough noise about this that it makes a difference.

          Somebody come up with an alternative to Clickbank that will have
          affiliates AND merchants flocking to them in droves.

          Until somebody does that, all of this is just blowing off steam.

          And personally, I think there are more productive ways to spend your time.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678999].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Trader54
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            And that really is the biggest problem and the cause of all this frustration.

            There is simply nobody better.

            If I'm wrong, tell me who it is?

            Tell me who will pay your affiliates for you.

            Tell me who has as popular a marketplace, where you at least have a shot
            at somebody finding your product and promoting it.

            Tell me what other marketplace, as an affiliate, you don't have to worry
            about the merchant not paying you the commissions you're owed. My
            experiences with PayDotcom have made it so that the ONLY way I will
            promote anything from that place is if I know the merchant personally.

            So please...somebody tell me who is better.

            That's why I said earlier that whining about this problem (I agree there
            are problems, though I am not exactly sure I agree with what they are
            or if they are intentional) does no good.

            Come up with solutions.

            Get a hold of a big name marketer or group of marketers who would be
            willing to make enough noise about this that it makes a difference.

            Somebody come up with an alternative to Clickbank that will have
            affiliates AND merchants flocking to them in droves.

            Until somebody does that, all of this is just blowing off steam.

            And personally, I think there are more productive ways to spend your time.

            There really is no alternative or real competition for clickbank when it comes
            to selling digital products.

            I admit I don't know all the technical ins and outs of a business like this but
            I'm sure if there where easy solutions clickbank would be upgrading if it meant
            better business for them. And if they didn't that would mean the door would be
            open for someone else to move into this market. I don't see anyone with any
            answers or willingness to invest in a similar business. I mean if it was so easy
            then why wouldn't someone like paydotcom switch to become like clickbank,
            sounds there would be enough disgruntled clickbank affiliates that it would be
            very worthwhile.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[679087].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
    Maybe someone should do a little investigative work, find the direct phone numbers and addresses for the top guys at CB and start sending them package, after package, after package and call after call after call.

    A few weeks of that, especially if it is signed-received mail would wear anyone thin

    Then the senders would also have proof that it has been received.

    Does anyone live near the CB headquarters? Maybe drop in with a camera for an interview and actually ask what the hell is going on, with paper printout proof in hand. Dateline NBC style, like when they catch the perverts in the act trying to get with kids.



    James
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678898].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kkchoon
    Another blog post and comments about clickbank...

    The Clickbank Mafia | Clickbank Is Stealing My Money | Tatumba.com
    Signature

    Powerful Indexer That Makes Your Backlinks Count ==> Nuclear Link Indexer

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[678919].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author cncbuss
    I have heard the same in my circle of friends that CB is less than perfectly honest, and I'm sure there is fraud in some form there. But how can we cure the problem when we have no control over the situation? I woud dread being a newbie and spending a whole lot of money (which newbies often cannot afford to lose) on advertising only to get my click-throughs ripped off. Man, that really sucks.
    Signature
    Nothing worth pursuing is ever easy. www.perfectbusinessadvatage.com
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[679017].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author locke
    If people are unsatisfied with clickbank either as affiliates or people selling their own products, I would strongly recommend PAYDOTCOM.com... it has a great repuatation so far and they use paypal as their trusted payment system which makes buyers feel extremely safe... i've made several commissions from marketing affiliate products with their system and i've also tested their system on several occasions... haven't been let down yet (btw im not affiliated with their company, just a fan lol...)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[679053].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author nmh
    Why don't I hear much about CJ (commission junction)?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[679085].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Trader54 View Post


    And doesn't this break rule #1? Or I guess clickbank is the exception.
    Is Clickbank a Warrior, Guru, or God? No.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[679139].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author magicgrid
    hey there ... I'm having the same problem.

    I use prosper 202 to track all my sales through clickbank and this afternoon when I imported all my SUBIDS to check my traffic refers I;m showing different stats from CB

    Has anyone had this problem using prosper 202 and CB ??
    Signature

    Magic Grid

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[679183].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author The Mad Ape
    ClickBank is a sleazy organization. They do everything in their power to claw back affiliate commissions. I really do not know how they get away with their CDR policy.

    Further, on my blog I have affiliate marketers who earn in excess of $1,000,000 commissions from ClickBank, accusing ClickBank of outright fraud.
    Signature

    The Mad Ape
    ----------------------------
    www.tatumba.com
    www.TheClickBankMafia.com
    ----------------------------

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[679293].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ConversionCoach
    Banned
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[679375].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Trader54
      Originally Posted by ConversionCoach View Post

      I'm just surprised that nobody has commented on the solution / new competition for CB that has been mentioned before PayGear.com. Has anyone tested them? They look pretty attractive to me...
      Smells spammy ...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[679381].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
    Just checked you PayGear.com it is nothing more than a paydotcom.com clone but with more payment options.

    So far there is not a competitor to cb. e-junkie, paydotcom, etc... are all based on you handling your own payments through your own payment processor. None of them keep payout affiliates for you, send them the correct tax forms, take payment for you etc...

    CB is the only game in town at the moment. Although, I'm working on changing that, and suspect quite a few other people are too.

    James
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[679681].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author W.P. Allen
      Tell me what other marketplace, as an affiliate, you don't have to worry
      about the merchant not paying you the commissions you're owed. My
      experiences with PayDotcom have made it so that the ONLY way I will
      promote anything from that place is if I know the merchant personally.

      So please...somebody tell me who is better.

      That's why I said earlier that whining about this problem (I agree there
      are problems, though I am not exactly sure I agree with what they are
      or if they are intentional) does no good.

      Come up with solutions.

      Get a hold of a big name marketer or group of marketers who would be
      willing to make enough noise about this that it makes a difference.

      Somebody come up with an alternative to Clickbank that will have
      affiliates AND merchants flocking to them in droves.

      Until somebody does that, all of this is just blowing off steam.
      Jesus...

      No more excuses for Clickbank. No MORE EXCUSES FOR CLICKBANK!!!!!!!!!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[680195].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author floodrod
        Clickbank definitely goofs up from time to time, but I can't complain. Still better than the competition IMO
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[680208].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Dellco
          No one here mentions the fact that CB has your password under their lock and key.

          I always wondered why I could not change my password and had to use theirs.

          My guess is, so they can access anybody's accounts at any time they want?
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[680293].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author ripsnorta2
            Originally Posted by Dellco View Post

            No one here mentions the fact that CB has your password under their lock and key.

            I always wondered why I could not change my password and had to use theirs.

            My guess is, so they can access anybody's accounts at any time they want?

            Actually, it's more likely they are doing that to ensure that account passwords are using a secure method rather than a someone using a completely insecure method of password generation, like using the word "password" perhaps.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[696506].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author milan
      Originally Posted by jamesc32 View Post

      So far there is not a competitor to cb. e-junkie, paydotcom, etc... are all based on you handling your own payments through your own payment processor. None of them keep payout affiliates for you, send them the correct tax forms, take payment for you etc...
      There are a couple of processors which do that for you and more. The person above mentioned Plimus, they do everything you said and more.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[682037].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kelvin Chan
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[681893].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Steven,

      ClickBank for me at this point is a convenience...

      When I first started all of my energy went into clickbank, but with everything that I've leaned and done in the last year and a half I could replace the income if I had to. To do so though would be an annoyance.

      I don't think that they are doing it on purpose...If they were, that would make them one of the dumbest companies on the face of the earth. I do however think they are long past due for an overhaul as I don't think that it is a coincidence that a new acct = old conversion rates and old acct = no money or poor conversions from previously proven traffic.

      I do hope that they take this serious. I'm sure that I'm not the only one that is starting to pour more energy into other things like CPA, product creation, Adsense, and other revenue models. In the end, they will be the ones that lose out. The people that know how to make money will make it whether it is with ClickBank or someone else.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[681913].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
        Jennifer,

        You are absolutely correct...but, it doesn't appear that they are ever going to admit wrong doing here...Imagine the lawsuits that would follow do to money earned not being paid?

        Even though it makes them look like clowns they are probably going to stick to deny deny deny.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[681958].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Frank Bruno
        Originally Posted by cosmokid View Post

        But at what point does allowing ongoing, systemic problems to continue - plus this really suspicious behavior where a lot of us email them about the problem and then immediately get sales within a few hours (after a week or zeroes) start to hint at true negligence?

        So maybe they're clueless, maybe they feel like they can't fix these problems or whatever - an ETHICAL business at this point would not be engaging in CONCEALMENT of the problem (which appears to be happening) or NON RESPONSE (refusing to admit that there might be a problem.) Those are negligent behaviors. Not clueless behaviors. They have an ethical responsibility to address these complaints and stop the bull ****.

        Jennifer

        Exactly! Time will get the best of CB and everything will come out in the end.

        There are too many serious marketers who invest a lot of time and expenditure to treat this like a hobby.

        I seriously smell a large lawsuit. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if it was in the mix at this very moment.

        Frank Bruno
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[685003].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Janus
    A lot of conjecture here and a very serious issue that needs resolution.

    Apparently the problem is:

    1) Criminal Acts at CB (either the co or an employee)
    2) Criminal Acts outside of CB (cyber crime)
    3) Incompetence at CB (sometimes negligence can turn criminal through subsequent actions)
    4) Some combination of the above

    They always say "follow the money". So who benefits, can it be proven and who can prove it.

    The product provider has no way to influence payments so their off the hook, customers are apparently receiving what they paid for so they too are innocent, the affiliates are the ones screaming so they aren't doing it, CB (the Co) could benefit but they're also losing sales & affiliates to their competition but they could be incompetent or a criminal (inside or outside of the Co).

    So where's the proof? Currently there is none.

    Who can find out? Probably the FBI, a big league lawsuit (where someone fronts big bucks for the investigation and CB itself (if they're not incompetent or have liability). If the FBI investigates it, you won't know of the investigation for years and it'll be more years before they acknowledge it or arrest the criminals. Nobody can afford to investigate and gain access to the necessary records except the FBI. So you have to complain to the FBI and local US attorneys.

    The other choice, since individual lawsuits are impractical, is to bring pressure on CB to clean up the mess. First you would have to trust them to do so, it would help if they acknowledge that there was a problem and you trusted them to properly fix things along with notifying you of the outcome.

    That said, it seems like the most practical course of action for you is 1) move your business elsewhere 2) stay with the current status quo or 3) file complaints with the government investigative agencies.

    Looks like doing either 1) or 2) along with the bonus action of 3) is one practical solution.

    Good Luck All,
    Pat
    Signature

    Online Business Analysis & Credit Assessment
    CreditAides.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[682071].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Anthony Wee
    Geez aren't you guys afraid of getting sued by Clickbank one day for posting slanderous threads about them "ripping affiliates off"?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[682159].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AdamWB
      Originally Posted by Anthony Wee View Post

      Geez aren't you guys afraid of getting sued by Clickbank one day for posting slanderous threads about them "ripping affiliates off"?
      lol, I hope this was a sarcastic joke?

      Look, I'm not, nor either is anyone else posting slanderous threads. I would not be accusing anyone unless I had serious proof.

      I only call it how I see it. I got affiliate sales and didn't get paid for it - and I have proof of it. I also changed my CB account, and sales started miraculously occurring after a several week drought - and I have proof of that.

      SEVERAL well known, highly regarded and respected people of this forum are also reporting the EXACT SAME issue. I mean, come on. It's like trying to convince you people that the earth is round - how much more proof do you need?

      Actually, I hope CB opens up a case against its affiliates. Then it will be in the courts hands and maybe a little justice will get resolved. Power to em.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[682249].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Hello,

      Originally Posted by Anthony Wee View Post

      Geez aren't you guys afraid of getting sued by Clickbank one day for posting slanderous threads about them "ripping affiliates off"?
      If ClickBank or anyone associated with ClickBank wants to discuss it, I'm sure there will be no shortage of people that will be willing to talk to them about it

      I doubt that will happen though.

      There is nothing slanderous being said. Several people have stated that they went weeks with no sales and within hours of contacting clickbank sales started happening again.

      People have also stated that after days or weeks of no sales that they opened a new account and somehow miraculously started getting the same conversion numbers again.

      I know that everything I posted in this thread has been factual. No worries here.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[682446].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author captivereef
    I just opened up a new account and swicthed one of my products over, lets see what happens.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[682275].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mightyade
    John,
    I think there is sense in what Jonstein said. I equally believe that Clikbank has nothing to gain by duping you of your hard earned commission. doing so will tantamount to self destruction. We should try to appeal to some savvy marketers who are in the habit of using re-direction programming to avoid commission payment
    Signature
    Go claim a simple report on how to avoid loss in forex trading here
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[682376].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mikkosant
    Can someone recommend a link cloaker that makes it easy to switch out the hop links?
    Thanks
    Signature


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[682435].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Steve Steinitz
    Hi,

    I think it would be a useful experience to launch a class action (as mentioned above) against the entity being discussed here. It might even do some good. Does anyone have such experience?

    Cheers,

    Steve
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[683788].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author abelacts
    I believe not being credited as an affiliate is part of the business risks. If you think it happens to you, find ways to overcome this - as Jeremy proposed: create new CB accounts (assuming it works) or you can create your own products. Or you can dump CB totally.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[683876].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author usfemail
      Just wanted to let everyone know that I sent CB an email this morning about not getting any sales for 10 days (which is very unusual) and guess what. Already this morning I have made 2 sales. Coincidence?

      Maybe I will open up another account; although I have a question. If you can use the same information as your old account; do you close out your old account or does it stay open?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[684163].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Stallion


    Isn't that picture classic?

    Just wanted to let everyone know that I sent CB an email this morning about not getting any sales for 10 days (which is very unusual) and guess what. Already this morning I have made 2 sales. Coincidence?
    That is the story of my life, but Clickbank (about a month ago) told me I wasn't professional with my complaining and will no longer help me. It's apparently "unprofessional" to call them liars when they BS me with their "there's nothing wrong, check your campaign" and they also don't like it when you say you can prove there is a problem through simple statistical analysis.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[684267].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      [DELETED]
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[689109].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
        Originally Posted by alexa_s View Post

        In the Clickbank Forum, laughably, you're not allowed to discuss your declining sales at all.
        That's absolutely correct.

        We explain why in the rules.

        Forum Rules: Slow sales


        Harvey
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[689137].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author JordanFrancis
          Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

          That's absolutely correct.

          We explain why in the rules.

          Forum Rules: Slow sales


          Harvey
          Head. Sand. Problem goes away? Awesome.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[689657].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
            Originally Posted by JordanFrancis View Post

            Head. Sand. Problem goes away? Awesome.
            FYI, Harvey is the top clickbank affiliate of all time.

            Here's your basic problem friend: Cookie based affiliate tracking systems. Clickbank's in particular have been flagged as spyware by dozens of online security companies, including Webroot, Spybot Search and Destroy, Symantec, Kapersky, the list goes on and on and on. So it's highly likely that nice shiny new computer has a built-in clickbank cookie cruncher that crushes clickbank cookies long before you ever get a chance to get that affiliate comission.

            And it's not just clickbank, it's any system that uses affiliate cookies. The average is 30%, and that's with companies that aren't flagged by the internet at large as spyware (like clickbank is).

            So, what can you do? You can either bitch and complain on the forum, or you can work on a system that doesn't use the fragile affiliate cookie. Get rid of the weak link, and you're an instant internet billionaire.

            You up for the challenge?
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[693117].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author nmh
              Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher View Post

              FYI, Harvey is the top clickbank affiliate of all time.

              Here's your basic problem friend: Cookie based affiliate tracking systems. Clickbank's in particular have been flagged as spyware by dozens of online security companies, including Webroot, Spybot Search and Destroy, Symantec, Kapersky, the list goes on and on and on. So it's highly likely that nice shiny new computer has a built-in clickbank cookie cruncher that crushes clickbank cookies long before you ever get a chance to get that affiliate comission.

              And it's not just clickbank, it's any system that uses affiliate cookies. The average is 30%, and that's with companies that aren't flagged by the internet at large as spyware (like clickbank is).

              So, what can you do? You can either bitch and complain on the forum, or you can work on a system that doesn't use the fragile affiliate cookie. Get rid of the weak link, and you're an instant internet billionaire.

              You up for the challenge?
              I guess reading thread every day and seeing the problems I am wondering if what you are saying is correct about the cookies then if people are changing their accounts and they are getting a better conversion rate then how come those cookies aren't being picked up on the new accounts? The coding basically looks the same right?
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[693177].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
                Originally Posted by nmh View Post

                I guess reading thread every day and seeing the problems I am wondering if what you are saying is correct about the cookies then if people are changing their accounts and they are getting a better conversion rate then how come those cookies aren't being picked up on the new accounts? The coding basically looks the same right?
                Checksums. New account creates a cookie with a checksum that foils the cookie crushers for awhile, until they catch up.

                I admit it's only a theory, but it does answer a ton of questions.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[693347].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
              Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher View Post

              FYI, Harvey is the top clickbank affiliate of all time.
              It's hard typing out this reply while flying my private jet.

              I wish.

              Alas I think Floyd has me mixed up with someone else,
              maybe Ewen Chia. Guess our names are too similar.


              Harvey

              .
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[694092].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
                Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

                It's hard typing out this reply while flying my private jet.
                I know what you mean. That's why I use Dragon Naturally Speaking. Problem solved.

                Cheers,
                Becky
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[694517].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              [DELETED]
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[694134].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Trader54
                Originally Posted by alexa_s View Post

                That's why they're the ones losing so many of their affiliates.
                Your wrong. They continue to grow daily. Sales have never been better.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[694184].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Hamida Harland
                  Originally Posted by Trader54 View Post

                  Your wrong. They continue to grow daily. Sales have never been better.
                  I have to agree - I'm not 100% happy with Clickbank but why ditch a good four figure income just to spite them?

                  The only people I've seen leaving Clickbank were those who were only making a few sales a week because they didn't know how to market in the first place. Newbies these days are finding it all too easy to put the blame on CB when often alot of the problem lies with their own lack of marketing experience.
                  Signature
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[694198].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
                Originally Posted by alexa_s View Post

                However you look at it, Clickbank's problem is a problem that Clickbank have that their competitors apparently don't have. Clickbank, as far as I know, are the only ones lying, concealing, censoring and evading. That's why they're the ones losing so many of their affiliates.

                As observed above: "Head. Sand. Problem goes away. Awesome".

                What's difficult to understand about this?
                So instead of using your brain power to do something constructive like create a next generation affiliate system, you would rather just accuse anyone who doesn't bleat along to your conspiracy mantra as corporate toadies.

                As a wise man once said, "If you're not part of the solution, then you are the problem."

                Either fix the problem, or be the problem. Your call.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[694490].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                  Banned
                  [DELETED]
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[695974].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Michelle Adams
                    I've also been following this thread with interest. I went from regular sales to zero for almost two weeks, I was dumb founded. I just sent ClickBank an email explaining that I felt something could be going wrong with my account/tracking. Magically the very next day sales appeared and have continued to appear.

                    Askloz: I'm looking forward to see what you have to offer.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[696136].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author momkat
                      Michelle:
                      Were you still getting hops, but no sales? I am experiencing something like that right now.
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[696446].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Michelle Adams
                        Originally Posted by momkat View Post

                        Michelle:
                        Were you still getting hops, but no sales? I am experiencing something like that right now.
                        Yes still getting hops. I can't be certain of what's happened but no matter what, I have faith that ClickBank are not setting out to scam anyone, that doesn't mean the system isn't fail proof. If they do have tracking issues hopefully they get sorted out quickly.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[697186].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author jcaviani
                          Jennifer,

                          I couldn't agree more.

                          Clickbank gains nothing by entering the conversation. In fact, much like the people who are caught with their hands in the cookie jar by the 60 Minutes crew (and I'm not saying CB is guilty), their probable reaction is to say nothing or even hide.

                          In general, legal teams or PR firms commenting on behalf of any major company will offer nothing but canned statements. They will also go to great lengths to never admit to any wrong doing. Moreover, any potential settlements reached will seek to quiet their opposition and forbid them from further comment.

                          So, where does this leave the lowly affiliate? This is perhaps the best example of why being an affiliate is NOT a great long term business model. You have very little leverage even with proof in hand.

                          It's interesting, I have not seen one thing in the IM realm (idea, software, plan, consulting, etc.) that I couldn't get from someone else in the business world for much cheaper. The internet is a marketing channel not a business, but that's a topic for another post.
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[697862].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
                      Originally Posted by alexa_s View Post

                      My problem (and that of many others posting here and in other forums apart from the heavily censored Clickbank forum
                      You are referring to my forum - the ClickBank Success Forum at clickbanksuccessforum.com/forum

                      For the record we have never censored or altered any post -
                      apart from one exception. Moreover a ClickBank director has
                      told me he WELCOMES critical constructive comments so that
                      they can improve their system.

                      The exception ?

                      Ah yes.

                      If you come to our forum and accuse ClickBank of scamming
                      your post is removed and you with it.


                      Harvey
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[696447].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author easybiztools
                        Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

                        The exception ?

                        Ah yes.

                        If you come to our forum and accuse ClickBank of scamming
                        your post is removed and you with it.

                        Harvey
                        <grin> ... Harvey is being too lenient here. He almost wanted to send a terminator but we manage to dissuade him :-)

                        Back in 2002, I was still working in an IT company - slaving 10-14 hours each day. I got to know Harvey on the forum we've been great friends since. He took me (a green horn and a rookie) under his wings and I've learnt lots from him!

                        When I learnt about Clickbank back in 2002, I was excited and thought this could be my ticket out of the rat-race. Unfortunately, I found that Malaysians were not allowed to sign-up.

                        So I wrote in, and sort of pestered them about giving me a chance to join. Much to my surprise and joy, they actually took the trouble to reply, and even forwarded to emails to Steve Rouses (the CEO at that time).

                        He (Steve) wrote me, and asked me to give him a call.

                        I did, and I've been with ClickBank ever since. Never had a problem with them. As for Clickbank 'scamming' or 'ripping' people off - that's really, really funny. Why kill the goose that lays the golden eggs?

                        The *only* grouse I have is their liberal refund policy. No system or affiliate network is perfect, even the mighty Google's adwords/tracking is faulty.

                        I'll stick with ClickBank anytime!


                        Cheers,
                        Adrian
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[696502].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author AdamWB
                          Originally Posted by easybiztools View Post


                          He (Steve) wrote me, and asked me to give him a call.

                          I did, and I've been with ClickBank ever since. Never had a problem with them. As for Clickbank 'scamming' or 'ripping' people off - that's really, really funny. Why kill the goose that lays the golden eggs?

                          The *only* grouse I have is their liberal refund policy. No system or affiliate network is perfect, even the mighty Google's adwords/tracking is faulty.

                          I'll stick with ClickBank anytime!
                          Seriously - this is getting outright ridiculous. People coming on here, cheerleading Clickbank, thinking they are some sort of divine power that are above any mistakes and can do no wrong ---- when there is an OBVIOUS problem. The only way it can get any more obvious is if the CEO of Clickbank himself came on this thread and admitted it, and that's not going to happen.

                          I mean - are you guys even reading the thread before posting these comments?
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[697952].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mal Keenan
    I have noticed irregularities with my CB commissions for years. So this is nothing new. I even saw a thread a while ago here where product owner actually came out and admitted that many of their sales should have been affiliate sales but were not being registered as such by CB.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[684624].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Wayne
    Here is just a thought i had that hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet (I don't think
    so anyway). Clickbank has a merchant account with a bank to process orders, and if
    their refund rate or chargeback rate goes too high they have a danger of losing their
    merchant account and not being able to accept orders anymore. Clickbank has always
    had way more stricter standards with credit card sales than any other site I know of
    online, probably because of so many crap products in their marketplace. There have always been reports of people saying they are not able to order because of problems
    with their credit card. I would be curious to know what the average refund rate is for
    the people who are saying their sales start up again when opening new accounts. Maybe
    it could be possible that their refund rate is reaching a certain plateau where there
    account is being placed under stricter standards with the credit card processing and
    sales are getting denied. When they open a new account, they are placed under the
    normal credit card standards again until they reach the refund rate again that will place
    them into the stricter standards again. Not saying this is happening at all, but at the
    moment I can't think of anything else, and with all of the people that have reported
    over the past several years about trying to order and not being able to with their
    credit card, this may be another possibility.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[685022].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Wayne View Post

      Here is just a thought i had that hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet (I don't think
      so anyway). Clickbank has a merchant account with a bank to process orders, and if
      their refund rate or chargeback rate goes too high they have a danger of losing their
      merchant account and not being able to accept orders anymore. Clickbank has always
      had way more stricter standards with credit card sales than any other site I know of
      online, probably because of so many crap products in their marketplace. There have always been reports of people saying they are not able to order because of problems
      with their credit card. I would be curious to know what the average refund rate is for
      the people who are saying their sales start up again when opening new accounts. Maybe
      it could be possible that their refund rate is reaching a certain plateau where there
      account is being placed under stricter standards with the credit card processing and
      sales are getting denied. When they open a new account, they are placed under the
      normal credit card standards again until they reach the refund rate again that will place
      them into the stricter standards again. Not saying this is happening at all, but at the
      moment I can't think of anything else, and with all of the people that have reported
      over the past several years about trying to order and not being able to with their
      credit card, this may be another possibility.

      You know Wayne, this actually makes a lot of sense.

      I have one account, because of 2 chargebacks in 6 years, that has a
      very high allowance rate, even though my refund rate is only 5.68% for
      that account. Yeah, it doesn't take much for your account to get screwed.

      Point is, I've had several people actually contact me (who knows who
      doesn't) to tell me that they tried to order but couldn't. They didn't know
      the reason (probably because of their credit) but were unable to buy and
      wanted to know if there was another way they could pay me.

      Good point...this could have at least something to do with it.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[685039].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Stallion
    Wayne, That's a very good point and that sort of thing is probably playing out anyway, but I don't believe it is the problem. The reason I believe that is due to the fact that it has to be consistent. It wouldn't produce a great week of sales and a week of zeros. It would be consistent.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[685114].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author CWreports
    After reading this entire thread, and reading that CB is aware of the thread
    but has chosen not to respond I'm wondering if they're going through some
    kind of major systems problem or some form of system sabotage
    or perhaps a cyber attack.

    They could be frantically putting out fires as they pop by you all reporting
    inconsistencies in payment behavior... plus trying to correct the system at
    the same time. If this is the case it would definitely behoove them to not go
    public until "after'" the problem is fixed. Otherwise it would become a nightmare
    as they would be swamped with calls/complaints.

    I'm not condoning their actions in whatever case. It's just another idea of what
    could be the problem.

    Many companies choose not to announce a system problem until it's resolved.

    The only other conclusion I could draw from this is something of a more dire nature.
    And that's the possibility they have been impacted negatively by this economy!!

    Carol
    Signature
    “I must create a system or be enslaved by another man’s.” W.Blake
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[685369].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author st0rm
    this totally sucks, how can they get away with this s.it
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[685385].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author steve39
      I think there are 5 distinct possibilities when the customer types in their credit card number:

      1. The transaction goes through as normal and the affiliate gets the commision owed.

      2. The transaction fails due to an overzealous fraud protection system.

      3. The transaction goes through but the affiliate commission is stolen outright due to an infected customer pc.

      4. The transaction goes through and the vendor is mistakenly credited 100% of the sale.

      5. The transaction goes through and CB pockets 100% of the sale or the affiliate commission (unlikely).

      I don't think Clickbank is intentionally stealing affiliate's commissions, so of the transactions that are completed, where does the money go? I mean, it must go somewhere.

      If the vendors are getting 100% of the sale, how would they know what affiliate the money belongs to if it's not being recorded? Of those vendors, how many are likely to complain to CB that they received too much money? Some would, most would not.

      Either way, it's a huge mess.

      Steve
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[687050].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Neil S
    I posted this in the other thread but it was closed so I will post it here:

    Clickbank is not purposely ripping people off, it's just their tracking and payment system is terrible.

    In an effort to curb payment from fraudulent credit cards they have overcompensated by temporarily shutting down accounts if something suspicious happens. So this means all it takes is one suspicious payment to stop all sales to your account.

    This explains why when people change accounts their sales magically reappear.

    After testing selling the same products through different affiliate networks it became IMMEDIATELY clear that Clickbank was missing out on significant conversions.

    The most troubling aspect of this ordeal is it has been going on for so long that I question if Clickbank even cares. Surely if they did the company would have done something about it by now.

    I think what it has come down to is they would rather have affiliates make less money as long as they can prevent fraudulent payments. And if this mean affiliates missing out on sales then so be it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[687377].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Look, there is a simple way to determine if there truly is something going
      on with your account and I don't know why anybody hasn't thought of
      this yet.

      Let's say you've just seen 3 or 4 days of zeros after getting regular sales for
      weeks and weeks.

      Pull up any of the products that you normally get sales with using your
      hoplink.

      Go through the sales process, first checking to see if affiliate=<yourid> on
      the Clickbank payment page.

      If it doesn't, test it with another account.

      If that does then it is obvious that your account is being blocked for
      whatever reason.

      If there is no problem with affiliate=<yourid> at the start, buy the product.
      See if the sale goes through and if you're being credited for the sale.

      If you are, then the only explanation is that you're simply going through a
      dry spell.

      If you aren't, then there is no question that Clickbank is doing something
      to your account.

      This will at least give you some ammunition to fight with.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[687394].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author AdamWB
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Look, there is a simple way to determine if there truly is something going
        on with your account and I don't know why anybody hasn't thought of
        this yet.

        Let's say you've just seen 3 or 4 days of zeros after getting regular sales for
        weeks and weeks.

        Pull up any of the products that you normally get sales with using your
        hoplink.

        Go through the sales process, first checking to see if affiliate=<yourid> on
        the Clickbank payment page.

        If it doesn't, test it with another account.

        If that does then it is obvious that your account is being blocked for
        whatever reason.

        If there is no problem with affiliate=<yourid> at the start, buy the product.
        See if the sale goes through and if you're being credited for the sale.

        If you are, then the only explanation is that you're simply going through a
        dry spell.

        If you aren't, then there is no question that Clickbank is doing something
        to your account.

        This will at least give you some ammunition to fight with.
        Steven, I've done just that. As well as some other "tests". All tests prove that I am not getting paid for sales I rightfully should be getting commission for, and it also points to some type of tracking bug on older accounts. I'm not making this stuff up either, I have absolutely nothing to gain from it. In fact, I WISH I were wrong. Not getting sales vs getting sales taken from you - which would you choose?

        Although I don't know the exact time frame this starts to happen, I believe its impossible to tell, but it started happening to my account after several years. I'm hearing of others this happening much much sooner though, so who knows?

        I am documenting everything with screenshots, videos, and whatever else I can just in case I need it for evidence in the future.

        On a lighter note - I just bought your NRR #9 - I love em =)
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[687549].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Roy Carter
    I want to come in again here and say that it is NOT just affiliates for whom the sales are not being tracked correctly. Vendors too are suffering the same situation. As stated previously, I have a product as a vendor that showed consistent sales conversions solid as a rock and now, traffic in the thousands and zero sales. I mean, c'mon!

    And like many others, I've also seen a drop in affiliate sales from different acounts.

    My dilemma, as I've posted before, is that I want to switch my product outside CB, but I have affiliates who have links on their sites/blogs and it would seem unfair for me to take my product off CB as I have no way of contacting most of them.

    I have purchased Post Affiliate Pro Version 4 now to run my own affiliate program for various products, but I feel bad about letting affiliates down if I move my product to my own affiliate program without being able to contact them to let them know.

    No easy answer. What would you do?
    Signature
    "How To Hang Out On Various Exotic Islands
    Whilst Still Making Shed Loads Of Money...and stuff!"


    Get your FREE ISSUE entitled...'A Quick, Easy $2,000 In Your Pocket By This Weekend!'
    >> ---> http://LettersFromASmallIsland.com/sq1.html <--- < <
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[687724].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Trader54
      Originally Posted by Roy Carter View Post

      I have a product as a vendor that showed consistent sales conversions solid as a rock and now, traffic in the thousands and zero sales. I mean, c'mon!

      I feel bad about letting affiliates down if I move my product to my own affiliate program without being able to contact them to let them know.

      No easy answer. What would you do?
      Kind of a no brainer. If your getting thousands in traffic and no sales I'm sure the affiliates won't notice. No loss to them.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[687747].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
      Originally Posted by Roy Carter View Post


      I have purchased Post Affiliate Pro Version 4 now to run my own affiliate program for various products, but I feel bad about letting affiliates down if I move my product to my own affiliate program without being able to contact them to let them know.

      No easy answer. What would you do?
      Leave your Clickbank affiliate pages up, while starting your new affiliate program (using different landing page, of course). That way you won't lose any "old" sales, while all new affiliates and sales will go through your new affiliate program.

      In other words -- it's not an either/or situation. You can run two affiliate programs (provided you don't use the same sales page links).

      In addition, contact recognizable affiliates who're sending traffic and sales and encourage them to switch to your new program. (I realize you need to do this manually.) Or at the very least, contact your top affiliates to encourage them to make the switch. Perhaps give them sort of bonus or other enticement to make the switch (as it is a hassle).

      Cheers,
      Becky
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[689024].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author steve39
        What is also interesting is that I have received hops in the past from links that had been taken down months earlier. This happened today, actually. I just received 2 hops from a site that no longer exists. It was taken down last month and I stopped promoting the product.

        I have also had refunds appear after 4 months (well past the clickbank 8 week policy) and they've gone through. This happened twice.

        What if some of our sales are simply being bunched up and appear all at once? In other words, maybe we aren't missing any, it's just that some are delayed.

        I'm not saying this is the entire problem, but maybe a significant part of it

        Just a thought

        Steve
        Signature

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[689093].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Roy Carter
        Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

        Leave your Clickbank affiliate pages up, while starting your new affiliate program (using different landing page, of course). That way you won't lose any "old" sales, while all new affiliates and sales will go through your new affiliate program.

        In other words -- it's not an either/or situation. You can run two affiliate programs (provided you don't use the same sales page links).

        In addition, contact recognizable affiliates who're sending traffic and sales and encourage them to switch to your new program. (I realize you need to do this manually.) Or at the very least, contact your top affiliates to encourage them to make the switch. Perhaps give them sort of bonus or other enticement to make the switch (as it is a hassle).

        Cheers,
        Becky
        Yeah, thanks Becky. I reckon that's the way i'll end up having to do this.

        Roy
        Signature
        "How To Hang Out On Various Exotic Islands
        Whilst Still Making Shed Loads Of Money...and stuff!"


        Get your FREE ISSUE entitled...'A Quick, Easy $2,000 In Your Pocket By This Weekend!'
        >> ---> http://LettersFromASmallIsland.com/sq1.html <--- < <
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[691853].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bob73
    Its true that E-junkie are among the few out there that dont rip you off. But i thought they require you to pay for their services. Like there is a membership fee...not
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[687804].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
    You know what is REALLY funny? What most people still want to promote is CB products. They want to hear nothing of PayDotCom.

    I have said before and I'll say it again - if you're making 100 sales a day, you probably wouldn't notice if you lost 30 sales.

    Fabian
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[688986].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Seth Stewart
    I think Steven W.'s test offers the most clarity and best ansswer to this whole thread, as do almost all his posts. It's really great to have you onboard this forum, Steven, thanks
    Signature
    Before HOW to make money online, the question no one ever asks is, CAN I really make money online? Not everyone can, it simply may not be right for you. Before you waste years of time & tons of money, FIND OUT if Internet Marketing is right for you, and how to do it, with my FREE REPORT.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[689407].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      [DELETED]
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[689953].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author onlineads
        I know for a fact that ClickBank doesnt even convert the proper amount of hops in their Analytics section. I have cloaked plenty of ads to a landing page and have multiple counters implemented in the site to judge the traffic for myself.

        ClickBank's numbers are probably half than that of the counters. Just imagine how many orders probably had been processed that were not credited to me.

        I have begun to transfer to another affiliate company.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[689979].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by alexa_s View Post

        Though I wholeheartedly endorse your second sentence, I do believe it's possible the first one may not quite be accurate, on this occasion. The problem with Steven's suggestion is that it can clearly do no more than verify the affiliate-linkage process of something ordered by using your own computer, whereas if (as has been very repeatedly suggested and discussed and even allegedly evidenced elsewhere) one of the tracking problems is related to an adverse interaction with some of the pretty common types of software widely installed on customers' PC's, then following this suggestion can, by definition, throw no light on the matter at all.
        Alexa, you're right to a degree. Yes, there are definite problems with spyware
        programs and browser settings that block cookies or don't write them
        correctly, BUT...if you're getting no sales for 7 days and your test pops a
        sale, how likely is it that ALL those users computers are blocking cookies?

        That scenario is highly unlikely and therefore it is more likely that you're
        going through a bad spell.

        On the other hand, if your test does NOT register a sale, then you
        absolutely know there's a problem, like when I recently tested one of my
        hoplinks on MY computer and it came up affiliate=none. Now I know for a
        fact that my PC has nothing blocking cookies, as all other cookies worked.
        But for this one product...it didn't.

        So I know there is a problem somewhere.

        How widespread...that I don't know.

        The problem I had was for one day only, and I haven't been able to
        duplicate it since.

        That's the troubling thing about this mess. As a former QA tester of
        software, I can tell you with absolutely certainty that sometimes the
        causes of problems are the last thing you'd think of.

        I think the bigger issue is this...How hard is Clickbank working to FIND any
        potential problems?

        Nobody but Clickbank can answer that question. Anything we come up
        with is purely conjecture.

        I am not saying Clickbank doesn't have a problem and I am also not saying
        that they're working their tails off to find one, if it exists.

        The problem is...we just don't know what's what.

        And until an official investigation by an outside agency is made, we're not
        going to know what's what and this mess will go on forever...literally.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[690189].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author pearsonbrown
    You don't appear to be selling any Clickbank items, Jordan. What problems have you had with Clickbank?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[689761].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JordanFrancis
      Originally Posted by pearsonbrown View Post

      You don't appear to be selling any Clickbank items, Jordan. What problems have you had with Clickbank?
      Let me get this straight. You presume I don't sell Clickbank items, but at the same time want to know what problems I have had with them? Interesting. Hey, are you implying that if I were truly selling Clickbank items, I'd know they were utterly flawless?

      But anyway, to correct you, yes I do sell Clickbank items. I don't actively do it now though because I reason that my efforts are better spent elsewhere. Or at least not putting all my eggs in to the basket of a company who clearly have issues right now.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[690144].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author LordXenu
    yes, my clickbank sales have been going to shit lately too, and i have heard the same from many many webmasters.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[689961].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Sell
    If you feel you have followed there terms, why not complain. Mabye your own website ClickBankRipping.com ?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[690169].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Phenom
      Originally Posted by Sell View Post

      If you feel you have followed there terms, why not complain. Mabye your own website ClickBankRipping.com ?
      i think that's a good idea.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[691714].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author saxi
    I've heard someone run a test of the same product that appears on Clickbank and RevenueWire, CB had a high commission rate, but over all, considerably less total profit on the CB product by a factor of 3:1 even though there was 25% more commission on CB.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[690555].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author simba999
    What about vendors? Does Clickbank somehow mess up your correct sales as a merchant also? If you wrote an ebook and put it there at Clickbank, is there a chance you are not getting credited w/ all your sales correctly? Also, can i use Clickbank AND paydotcom on 2 separate salespages on my site? Are you allowed to use both?

    thanks all for your help! -Sheila
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[690570].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author saxi
      Originally Posted by simba999 View Post

      What about vendors? Does Clickbank somehow mess up your correct sales as a merchant also? If you wrote an ebook and put it there at Clickbank, is there a chance you are not getting credited w/ all your sales correctly? Also, can i use Clickbank AND paydotcom on 2 separate salespages on my site? Are you allowed to use both?

      thanks all for your help! -Sheila
      I think you can pretty much assume anytime a lot of money is involved, there is a degree of fraud involved.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[690580].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author AdamHolland
    I love e-junkie. $5/mo shopping cart w/ affiliate marketing built in... best money i ever spent.
    Signature

    Powerful Training - RevolutionProfits.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[691811].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Brett2000
    Hi,

    Wow, I've always wondered about this, it's funny that CB itself cannot identify stats and what is going on, or at least point everyone somewhere to look.

    Here's my take on it. I tried selling one product on CB, zero sales, I pitched it to my list of buyers, so not sure what was up with that, anyway that was many years ago. In between then and now, I've tried Post Affiliate Pro, and just about every other type of Affiliate software that vendors use, I can guarantee of all of those I tested, they dropped sales - even PAP (which can do it's best to try to record a sale). I even questioned some of the bigger affiliate houses about it - their reply was 'it happens, there's nothing we can do about it - we're crediting you with everything - it's impossible to lose a cookie', etc, etc...

    I found from my testing it is possible to drop cookies, they drop all over the floor, every day, the problem is that the processors are NOT cookieing the sale AFTER the sale is made, and cookies are dropped everywhere! There is only ONE solution I have found that works 100% - I use the Miva shopping cart - it tracks using more than just cookies, for example SessionID's, and I have never seen it drop a sale, or miscalculate on affiliates through all of my testing - using Affiliate Software built into it's own cart (a module from Viking Coders).

    So, after I also went from $100-$300/month in affiliate sales to $10-$30/month with OTHER affiliate software vendors I seriously questioned all of them - not a single one had an answer for it, and my opinion is unfortunately they just don't want to put the investment into setting up/tracking session ID's on each visit to their site - the coding for that can't be that bad (I'm a programmer myself). My impression is they just don't care, they are getting their money, and I've lost 10x my affiliate payouts - big deal to them!

    I really think this is an industry wide issue - and hopefully by posting this up here where others who also are losing their butts in affiliate revenue will see this and make a push to the vendors to invest in some R&D and FIX any type of invalid/dropped statistics on every visitor/purchase. If we all make enough noise, maybe some will start to change, then we can start moving to those platforms that are changing, and leave the others behind.

    I hope that can happen, and that other vendors can realize their are serious issues with trying to track affiliate revenue/sales on cookies alone (they don't work), session ID's are required, WITH cookies, and every sale needs to be double checked/matched with an affiliate id, etc...
    Signature

    Thanks, Brett
    Business Blog: http://www.profit-internet.com
    XSitePro 2 Custom Template Design: http://www.xsitepro2webtemplates.com
    Custom ECommerce / Membership Websites: http://www.bgswebdesign.com
    *ask me for Warrior Discount and save...

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[691904].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author James Seward
    Well that is the reason I use e-junkie whenever I need a selling company... And for my services I alway rely on PayPal, i just love them...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[693038].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Brett2000
    Nmh,

    > if people are changing their accounts and they are getting a better conversion rate then >how come those cookies aren't being picked up on

    Exactly! That is the question that CB and every other affiliate provider should answer. As I said previously, the reply I got was 'no', that never happens, you're getting all the credit, we don't care if you're not, too bad... and that was from a pretty big affiliate resource - so there you go...

    Floyd: > You up for the challenge?

    Exactly, this is not about finding out how to switch out profiles every month, it's more about getting the REAL ETHICAL questions answered by affiliate managers - why suddenly am I losing 90% of my affiliate revenue... you think 4 times is great, wait to you start losing 10 times what you had - then see how you feel!

    My point is - let's get these questions answered - is there some Internet Standards Committee assigned to this, and if not - WHY? They certainly have problems with assigning domain names and watching squatting, this seems way bigger than that, or at least at the same level - we're talking about real incomes of many people who have based their life earnings on providing content/linking to get their credit - why should we let affiliate managers/software companies give all of us the shaft?

    ASK for sessionID's on ALL of your transactions, tell them you want a link after the purchase - that you can place your own tracking code, and verify that it's working from time to time (that's called auditing, and I believe part of every single affiliate agreement is that you are allowed from time to time to audit the affiliate company to see that you are being paid properly - my guess is this would fall into that)?

    What do you think? When you start losing 5x, 6x, up to 10x your income - not just a small 30%, you will question it, so start doing it now... maybe we should all setup a community website that can address this issue?
    Signature

    Thanks, Brett
    Business Blog: http://www.profit-internet.com
    XSitePro 2 Custom Template Design: http://www.xsitepro2webtemplates.com
    Custom ECommerce / Membership Websites: http://www.bgswebdesign.com
    *ask me for Warrior Discount and save...

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[693204].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
      Here is the serious problem: CB basically has a monopoly on the affiliate information product industry.

      As long as people are still making profits and as long as vendors still continue to stick with them, they have no real reason to change their flawed tracking system.

      When people are still generating sales (even inconsistent ones due to the flawed system), they will still keep promoting CB products because the alternatives aren't there.

      Sometimes companies and people need a real jolt to wake up.

      Fabian
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[693281].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author nicholasb
    I have never had a problem with them, maybe it is because I set up a new account for every product I promote
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[693397].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sfive
    I really these affiliate company like click bank should be 100 honest.. not ripping people off.. that suck
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[693784].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jackbgd
      Sorry for the stupid question above, I just changed my clickbank account - and made a sale INSTANTLY... If this goes and I make more sales, then it's obvious that Clickbank IS ripping people off.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[693944].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author DirectoryKing
    I doubt that clickbank is ripping people off. What possible gain would they achieve from doing that.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[694144].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Brett2000
    Alexa,

    > Clickbank, as far as I know, are the only ones lying, concealing, censoring and evading. > That's why they're the ones losing so many of their affiliates.

    Did you read my posts? It is NOT just ClickBank, every affiliate management program has this problem!

    Anyone accepting the sales/stats from the standard affiliate software better be double checking it, and even if they are it's standard (as Floyd said) to lose 30% of your sales because of dropped cookies.

    That is why I believe the only solution to this is to have an independent auditing committee that can see that the sales/stats are close to correct, if they are not, the committee can make adjustments to the affiliate system to make amends. It's the only thing that is going to solve this - it doesn't matter how correct you believe your account is - or even if you change account numbers, or reset the account, it's always going to be wrong - and YOU ARE GOING TO BE THE ONE TO LOSE MONEY - not the Affiliate company.
    Signature

    Thanks, Brett
    Business Blog: http://www.profit-internet.com
    XSitePro 2 Custom Template Design: http://www.xsitepro2webtemplates.com
    Custom ECommerce / Membership Websites: http://www.bgswebdesign.com
    *ask me for Warrior Discount and save...

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[694350].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Stallion
    Either fix the problem, or be the problem.
    Why is it my problem to fix?

    Let me explain something to you... I'm in a business. I'm here to make money. I'm not here to play games or screw around with incompetent businesses like Clickbank. If Clickbank cared about profits, they would of fixed this problem a long time ago. Any business that doesn't seem to put their profit first are dangerous. It's the same reason they have shady products, and warez products (before a few days ago).

    Clickbank is shady, it's scummy and it lacks integrity.

    What needs to happen is that we need to see Atlas shrug. We need people to tell CB to frig off, call them out (publically) and send their traffic to the competitors. CB's competitors convert so much better than CB and everyone would be much better off if they'd stop subsidizing this pathetic behavior from CB.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[694527].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Trader54
      Originally Posted by Stallion View Post

      Why is it my problem to fix?

      Let me explain something to you... I'm in a business. I'm here to make money. I'm not here to play games or screw around with incompetent businesses like Clickbank. If Clickbank cared about profits, they would of fixed this problem a long time ago. Any business that doesn't seem to put their profit first are dangerous. It's the same reason they have shady products, and warez products (before a few days ago).

      Clickbank is shady, it's scummy and it lacks integrity.

      What needs to happen is that we need to see Atlas shrug. We need people to tell CB to frig off, call them out (publically) and send their traffic to the competitors. CB's competitors convert so much better than CB and everyone would be much better off if they'd stop subsidizing this pathetic behavior from CB.
      This thread is full of rants like this. Full of accusations with no proof.

      One that tried to start a thread with proof was called out for doctoring
      his clickbank stats.

      If your statement was true why are they the biggest in the business they are in.

      Their by no means perfect, but what online system is.

      "send their traffic to the competitors" that's the thing, they really don't have
      any competitors.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[694728].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author AdamWB
        Originally Posted by Trader54 View Post

        This thread is full of rants like this. Full of accusations with no proof.

        One that tried to start a thread with proof was called out for doctoring
        his clickbank stats.

        If your statement was true why are they the biggest in the business they are in.

        Their by no means perfect, but what online system is.

        "send their traffic to the competitors" that's the thing, they really don't have
        any competitors.
        I've given enough proof. If you choose to just outright not believe me, then that's your call. Although why I would spend my time writing a thread that was a complete lie is beyond me. I have nothing to gain from it. I guess that would mean the other people posting the same experiences are lying to? Yes, we are all part of a big affiliate conspiracy.

        First Clickbank - THEN THE WORLD!!

        Come on.

        And just because they are the biggest business in affiliate marketing does not mean they are immune to mistakes and/or fraud. History has proven that.

        If you're not experiencing the CB "slap" then consider yourself lucky. Like I said in earlier posts, I was in the exact same position as you were in - calling people out that were CB bashing. It just didn't make sense. Now look at the position I'm in.

        As far as "fixing" the issue - there's really not a whole lot people can do unless they have access to CB servers - I highly doubt anyone on this thread does. Calling / emailing CB doesn't do anything as others in the thread have experienced.So the next best thing raising the awareness. Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing =)

        P.S. My newly created CB account is doing wonderful. A BIG thanks to those who gave me the idea!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[695938].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
      Originally Posted by Stallion View Post

      Why is it my problem to fix?

      Let me explain something to you... I'm in a business. I'm here to make money. I'm not here to play games or screw around with incompetent businesses like Clickbank. If Clickbank cared about profits, they would of fixed this problem a long time ago. Any business that doesn't seem to put their profit first are dangerous. It's the same reason they have shady products, and warez products (before a few days ago).

      Clickbank is shady, it's scummy and it lacks integrity.

      What needs to happen is that we need to see Atlas shrug. We need people to tell CB to frig off, call them out (publically) and send their traffic to the competitors. CB's competitors convert so much better than CB and everyone would be much better off if they'd stop subsidizing this pathetic behavior from CB.
      You want a reason to fix it?

      I've got a billion of them, all with pictures of George Washington on them.

      Just come up with a better system than affiliate tracking cookies, and it's all yours. All you have to do is achieve what the best and brightest on the internet have failed to do better part of a decade, and affiliate programs will beat down your door to get a license to use it.

      How's that for a reason?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[694873].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Trader54
        Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher View Post

        You want a reason to fix it?

        I've got a billion of them, all with pictures of George Washington on them.

        Just come up with a better system than affiliate tracking cookies, and it's all yours. All you have to do is achieve what the best and brightest on the internet have failed to do better part of a decade, and affiliate programs will beat down your door to get a license to use it.

        How's that for a reason?
        I agree.

        Everyone seems to be able to point out whats wrong but no answers to fix it.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[694955].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
          Originally Posted by Trader54 View Post

          I agree.
          Everyone seems to be able to point out whats wrong but no answers to fix it.
          Actually ClickBank have.

          They introduced supplemental hoplink tracking back in May 2007.

          Details here

          -----------------------------------------------------------
          Tracking hoplinks and affiliate credit with cookies is 100%
          accurate in the vast majority of cases. For some percentage
          of customers, however, cookies do not work for tracking. In
          these rare instances, customers either have cookies turned
          off in their browser, have utilized new browser security
          and/or privacy parameters, or have other software installed
          on their computer that prevents ClickBank from setting a
          cookie at all. We have developed a new technology that will
          accurately track hoplinks and award correct affiliate credit
          for most instances where cookies are not set. This new
          technology works hand-in-hand with our current cookie-
          tracking system to ensure proper credit is awarded to
          referring affiliates.
          -----------------------------------------------------------

          Harvey
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[694985].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author ExRat
            Hi,

            Just following this discussion with interest and noticed a few notable comments -

            Hi Trader54,

            they really don't have any competitors.
            Traditionally, in most fields, this is a problem. But I imagine most affiliate marketers (myself included) accept the risks (of losing commissions) in exchange for the benefits of 'riding the crest of the wave' of a relatively new industry, where fast movers can clean up. There's always a price to pay - it's the uncertainty and also the certainty (of losses), in this one.

            Hi Brett2000,

            That is why I believe the only solution to this is to have an independent auditing committee that can see that the sales/stats are close to correct, if they are not, the committee can make adjustments to the affiliate system to make amends. It's the only thing that is going to solve this
            Hmmm. Call me cynical, but...in other areas of life/business, whenever this is introduced, it simply creates an illusion of security (often by design) and acts as a further buffer between the two sides, IE not helping.

            An (ahem) 'independent' auditing committee between two sides - one with tons of money held by the few, another with tons of money distributed between many, who are also independent of each other (difficult for them to communicate and group together).

            How difficult is it for the former side to bribe the committee? Easily enough that it happens almost every time without exception. The committee simply ends up working on behalf of their paymasters. Works a treat, in councils, governments and businesses worldwide. Besides, committees are never a good solution to a problem - they waste time arguing endlessly with each other, jockeying for position,ego and fancy titles. A bit like forums

            Hi sbucciarel,

            I wrote an article based on a Shoemoney article awhile ago about this
            You need to work on a better pre-sell to get my click (sorry, couldn't resist)
            Signature


            Roger Davis

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[695024].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author askloz
        Hold on to your hats then. I've been working on a project to take out clickbank, for 2 years. Hope to have it released by end of 2009, early 2010.

        Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher View Post


        Just come up with a better system than affiliate tracking cookies, and it's all yours.
        Signature
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[695064].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Janus
    For anyone able to get past the who, what, when, where and why issues of what was either done or not done, the sad thing is that ClickBank has not adequately corresponded with its affiliates about this issue.

    Good Luck,
    Pat
    Signature

    Online Business Analysis & Credit Assessment
    CreditAides.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[694804].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I wrote an article based on a Shoemoney article awhile ago about this

    http://dotcommogul.net/affiliate-mar...tion-programs/

    A lot of spyware programs eat cookies including affiliate cookies. It's possible that these programs are the culprit rather than Clickbank.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[694964].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Campers, I've been direct-linking (with redirect & mask ;-) a Clickbank product on and off for the last month or so. I've thrown a fair bit of Adwords money at it. It was making a few sales but I wasn't getting the ROI. I've been tweaking it, as you do. I got it to the point where I had Q.S. of 7/8/9 on my keywords and Good CTR - 5.5%.
    Last night, after reading this thread, I took your advice and opened a new Clickbank A/C. I threw $150 at the campaign. Same keywords/same ad. 7 hours later I have two sales - netting me $60. CTR of 7.22%. 224 clicks.
    Coincidence? Too soon too call. I'll wait until the end of the day. But if there's another couple of sales...
    BTW now I'm worried about the funds outstanding in my old account.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[696658].message }}

Trending Topics