Made a deal, but felt I'm treated like a ghostwriter?

11 years ago

This part here would be enough for me to cut ties with them
"And if it sells, they'll re-consider giving some of the royalites?"
These friends aren't very close friends I take it?

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John2810 11 years ago

We meet frequently, and close enough to worry about this deal going sour and ruining our friendship.
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FreeMeal

11 years ago

Tell them you don't want to do it. Then publish it yourself without them. Or, publish it on your own, then hire them to promote it for you.

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RobertAxelsen

11 years ago

It sounds to me like you have either not clearly defined the conditions of your partnership, or you have agreed to something which they view differently than you.

Originally Posted by John2810

...
I sat there listening to them getting excited about it, paying me a few hundreds to come up with a book and initially refusing to let me handle any of the marketing, saying I should concentrate on writing the book and my other projects while they handle the publishing and marketing. Effectively, I'm giving them rights to my work, which they claim they don't have the time to do since they have their own commitments/day jobs.
...

Unless I am mistaken, you do not HAVE TO partner with them. Right now it seems to me like you have the leverage. Yet you agree to get paid for writing a book, which to me is the definition of ghostwriting (unless you go to a publisher to get paid in advance, which is a different thing).

I would ask them if they view everyone involved as equal partners, as I guess that's what you wanted. If their answer is no (which it sounds to me like it will be), you can just say that you are not interested in doing business that way - and stop working with/for them.

On the other hand, from what you have said they do not sound like people you should be doing business with in the first place. If you are real life friends with these people, then just leave it at that.

Originally Posted by FreeMeal

Tell them you don't want to do it. Then publish it yourself without them. Or, publish it on your own, then hire them to promote it for you.

Hehe, or what FreeMeal said

Anyways, good luck!

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Dmarcotte

11 years ago

So you are doing all the writing and they want all the profit? Not a good deal - I would second the idea that if they want to market it for you for a fee they can, otherwise I would call the whole thing off.

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Troy_Phillips

11 years ago

With "Friends" like that .. who needs enemies lol.

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John2810 11 years ago

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Will lookup on good articles on making deals and maintaining friendships LOL :p

It's just hilarious thinking how serious they were in getting the project started with their mindset that I'm just a writer and will not have my name as the author of the book.
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Corey Geer

11 years ago

Originally Posted by John2810

Hi all,

I have made an unofficial deal with some friends on publishing an ebook.

What irked me was that those friends seems to take me like an idiot.

And it's my time / effort to produce the content, and they seem to want control of that content. I sat there listening to them getting excited about it, paying me a few hundreds to come up with a book and initially refusing to let me handle any of the marketing, saying I should concentrate on writing the book and my other projects while they handle the publishing and marketing. Effectively, I'm giving them rights to my work, which they claim they don't have the time to do since they have their own commitments/day jobs.

And if it sells, they'll re-consider giving some of the royalites? LOL

It's my story, and work / time to produce the content. I can easily publish that book myself, if I were to go ahead with it.

This deal made me feel like i'm some outsourced ghostwriter, and somewhat stupid? LOL

Any thoughts on whether this kind of a deal should go ahead?

That's what writers do, they write content and then it's usually handed off to the new owner which has exclusive and full rights.

You can either

A: Freelance and offer writing services (in which case the buyer will retain all rights to the work).

B: Write your own work and Copyright it.

Yeah, it's not a dream job and there are things that are FAR more lucrative but that's essentially what writing is. You can either build up an income by writing for yourself, or offer services to others. Usually, royalties aren't even considered so hopefully it sells well.

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Rbtmarshall

11 years ago

Don't walk, run away from that arrangement. Unless you just want to concentrate on writing copy.

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KenThompson

11 years ago

Originally Posted by John2810

Effectively, I'm giving them rights to my work, which they claim they don't have the time to do since they have their own commitments/day jobs.

It's my story, and work / time to produce the content. I can easily publish that book myself, if I were to go ahead with it.

Any thoughts on whether this kind of a deal should go ahead?

If I'm correctly understanding this, it's your idea. The story is your idea?

If so, then I highly recommend you politely tell them you're declining "their offer." You say this is an unofficial deal. That's good. End it.

You have to be firm and resolute. Write your book, market it, and hopefully you'll make some money. But the entire process will be a valuable education. Then you can write another and use what you learned the first time to make it successful.

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BrightShinyObjects 11 years ago

I think you nailed it, to them you are indeed the ghostwriter. That's a respectable, good paying job if you pursue it. Problem is, it sounds like they're confusing things a bit. Maybe because you're all friends hanging out, the loose business approach developed.

When you do ghostwriting for a living, everything is in a contract. Doesn't have to be some big legal thing, just simple, straightforward, all spelled out. Everyone knows what you are expected to do and for how much. No surprises.

If they're giving you a few hundred, then in their minds they have paid you a respectable sum to write an ebook. And actually, a "few hundred" is a not bad for a 50-page ebook. Charging anywhere from $10 to $30 a page is normal. So low end $500, high end $1500. They might be getting you at the low end by the sound of it.

If you can put this on a formal, business-like footing, maybe you can save the writing gig and the friendship. Tell them writers have contracts. You need in writing and upfront, clearly stated how much will come to you after publication.

They might understand. Then again they might not!

If you can get this all in writing, try to get a percentage of sales put in your contract. Tell them you are working for low wages because it's for friends. And you're only doing that because you're willing to take the balance of what you should be getting after sales, as an act of friendship. Maybe they'll even feel grateful!

I hope it works out. If it doesn't, certainly use the research you've done for your own ebook/website. Can't waste words!

Good luck,
Mary
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TheSalesBooster

11 years ago

Well the question is... Who's idea was it?

Something tells me that if they are paying you a couple hundred dollars, then maybe you are just a ghostwriter. They are paying you to write the content for their idea / story. If that's the case then what do you expect? That's what writers do. They put peoples idea onto paper and get paid to do it.

But if this was your idea all along with your content (meaning your knowledge/stats/information/etc is all yours) then of course you should walk away.

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Tsnyder

11 years ago

I think we have a whole lot of people making assumptions
in this thread based on who knows what...

Several seem to think this would be a bad deal because,
as one poster said, they want you to do all the work while
they take all the profit.

I seem to recall you writing that they are willing to pay you
several hundred dollars to write the book. Apparently, it hasn't
occurred to anyone that you might be the ONLY person in the
deal to make money on the project.

Does everyone think these guys are just going to put the book
on the internet and thousands of people will flock to the site with
credit cards at the ready? Don't be silly. The marketing will take
lots of work and potentially lots of money up front depending on the
methods they settle on.

I promise you there are many people who would take this deal. The
up front money is guaranteed. If you want some of the back end,
assuming it ever exists, then negotiate a share of profits after expenses.

That... or write the book and market it yourself... pay all the up front
expenses... and take your chances.

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brentb

11 years ago

Yeah sounds pretty bad. I have had a bad deal once, some acquaintances knew I had some success online and was in it for a few years and knew programming (I am not a programmer, I know it just to use when I need or to communicate effectively with a web developer). So they pitched me an idea which I thought was pretty good and I informally agreed to come in on it with them. So they asked me for some kind of rough site demo so they had something to show at a pitch, did it but refused to do more without paperwork. So the papers are drawn up, CEO had 80%, other guy had 10%, one had 5% another 4% and me, the only one with experience and necessary skill 1%. Keep in mind they are all fresh out of college and had absolutely ZERO IM or entrepreneur experience. I said seriously? They said yeah. So I walked out. No regrets, they went out of business after 1 month due to wasting all their money on a terrible programmer who put them in the hole.

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Auzan

Banned 11 years ago

[DELETED]

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Sandra Martinez 11 years ago

It seems it doesn´t work for you. So, don´t do it.

Ghostwriting is not a bad thing per se. Marketing and finding prospects takes time, and special talents. Some books don´t ever sell.

But if you have no problems with the marketing part, and the idea and production is yours, and you don´t need money fast... it doesn´t look like a good deal for you.
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- Kay King 11 years ago
  
  If you are being paid "a few hundred" to write the book - then you are a ghostwriter on the project. Was this your idea or someone else's? Did you pick the subject or did someone else?
  
  If you don't like the arrangement - forget the few hundred and write the book on your own. If it sells, you'll get paid - if it doesn't you don't.
  
  However, if you signed a contract...that's another story. If you've already been paid some money you'll need to give it back if you back out of the deal.
  
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FirstSocialApps

11 years ago

I can see your frustration, however you have to look at things from there point. You say they gave you a couple hundred to write the eBook. They are paying you, and are treating you like an freelance employee because that is indeed what you are in this case. I dont see them doing anything wrong. If you want there money then you have to accept that they, as the ones who are paying, are in charge. The amount of compensation means nothing if you agree to it.

Now of course you are free to not accept there money and then you can do whatever you want. But you cant have it both ways.

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cpwebsite

11 years ago

I'm sure you can do marketing just as well as they can so write it, explain your issues, and don't give it to them unless you get royalties, and a big chunk.

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Chris Silvey 11 years ago

I would be very, very blunt with them. First I would ask them if they were crazy. I assume it is a good topic for them to get excited about and the ebook would have considerable value and take quite some effort to write. This tells me right off it is worth more than 200 bucks. What 10-20 sales and they will recoop on their investment?

Writing is the hard part. Marketing, though it sounds intimidating to some is the easy part. Whatever you get out of it after you publish it is residual income. Take that into consideration. Run away from this deal, because it screams that they are taking advantage of you and your talent.
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Randall Magwood

11 years ago

Next time be prepared for a situation where you're engaging in offering your services. Don't go with what's on the "top of your head"... have some questions lined up and have a scripted way of getting paid. Next time they'll feel stupid for testing your intelligence.

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Tsnyder

11 years ago

This thread is hilarious...

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Gengis

11 years ago

Maybe it's me but i really don't see what the problem is here. You are writing for them and they are paying you a few hundred for your writing..

You have 2 choices , you agree and don't worry as to if they see you as a ghostwriter or not (put your ego to the side)

Or

you simply say "no" and you move on.

This doesn't really seem like an issue

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techbul

11 years ago

I also don't quite get it. You have 2 clear alternatives:
1. Take the money they are offering and forget about the product
2. Launch the product on your own and forget about the money they are offering

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THK

11 years ago

Originally Posted by John2810

... I sat there listening to them ...

So you just sat there and listened and now complaining here at the WF! Do you want us to go and talk to them? (lol...just kidding mate)

Jokes aside, maybe you should make it clear that you want in on the marketing and promotion, that's where your interest is. Maybe they got the wrong idea and thought you are cool with the deal the way it stands now. Worth a shot.

If they refuse, time to move on I guess.

Tanvir

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sbucciarel

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by John2810

Hi all,

I have made an unofficial deal with some friends on publishing an ebook.

What irked me was that those friends seems to take me like an idiot.

And it's my time / effort to produce the content, and they seem to want control of that content. I sat there listening to them getting excited about it, paying me a few hundreds to come up with a book and initially refusing to let me handle any of the marketing, saying I should concentrate on writing the book and my other projects while they handle the publishing and marketing. Effectively, I'm giving them rights to my work, which they claim they don't have the time to do since they have their own commitments/day jobs.

And if it sells, they'll re-consider giving some of the royalites? LOL

It's my story, and work / time to produce the content. I can easily publish that book myself, if I were to go ahead with it.

This deal made me feel like i'm some outsourced ghostwriter, and somewhat stupid? LOL

Any thoughts on whether this kind of a deal should go ahead?

Honestly, if the deal is unofficial, I'd drop it. You obviously can write the content yourself and if they want a ghostwriter to do it, they'll need to pony up the cash for that. I wouldn't proceed with this deal. It'll only end in a big fight with the others over the rights of this book.

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Made a deal, but felt I'm treated like a ghostwriter?

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