Since When Did This Forum Become A Sad Story Forum?

Agreed! If it's one story... that's perfectly fine. In this case it's growing and growing... not sure why.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I have noticed quite a few in the last few days. Though sad, I think this is not the place for it, otherwise there will be more and more sob stories, possibly seeking pity. Sorry, I don't mean to be inconsiderate, but the forum could lose focus if too many of these stories kept being posted.

If times are tough then I really think there are better things they could be doing with their time than posting about it on a forum.

It starts to make you double guess each of the stories also.

When you walk down the street and see one begger on the corner, you might be willing to throw him a dollar. But if you walked down the same street and saw 5 beggers along that same street you wouldn't give any of them your money because you wouldn't feel they are all genuine beggers.

Same is happening here.

Maybe it's time for a 'My Hard-Luck Story' sub-forum?

The truth is everyone has their own problems. No one's life is perfect. But we don't all post about them on forums. If you really want to talk to someone about something like that you are better off going to see a professional.

You have a good point regarding a special section for Warriors In Need. Although this would reduce the exposure of threads with that theme, I think if the forum would donate banner ad space people can click to go to that section, a good balance might be achieved. Actually, it might be better for the members in need because those who are ready, willing, and able to help would click the banner. Also, WF would not be abandoning members in need because they have done their part with the banner rotation. In addition to current webmasters and marketers in need, the sub-forum can also be the home of disaster relief threads.

What do you guys think about this idea? I've helped out suffering fellow webmasters in other forums in the past.

Warriors can help by donating OR adding a link to the sub-forum on their sig.

Just brainstorming as to what would meet the needs of general members while showing compassion and mercy to those in need. I am sure there is a win win situation somewhere.

I too agree to what you have said. This is a professional site I too would prefer it to be more logical and honest.

There are two scenarios

1. Desperation drove them to post it
2. Someone told them WF was full of suckers for a sob story and if it's good enough, people will give you stuff.

Since it's often hard to determine which is which, I often look at them with a tainted eye. I know there are plenty of genuine hard luck stories around and I get involved in charity WSOs when they arise, but particularly when the poster is unrecognized, I don't know who is suckering the WF and who is genuine.

Even with members ... an example: There was a guy who was a member of the WF from way back, but had left the WF and gone to another forum. Then he comes back with some sob story about his daughter needing to get her hospital bill paid off. It was only $2K, but he went on and on about it on the front page. Some people starting donating money and he came within a couple of hundred dollars of the 2K goal and continued to actually beg and plead to raise that last couple of hundred. It was very off-putting to me and I felt, suspect.

However, more to put an end to it, I sent it to my list with a sale that the proceeds went to him until the 2K was reached, which only took about an hour.

He got his 2K and have no clue whether he really used it to pay a hospital bill and have never seen him post back here again. He used the WF to raise a fast 2K with no real connection to the WF other than he used to be active here a long time ago.

So, I'm on the fence. I like to help people but I'd rather really know the person or go through an organization that helps many.

I don't mind. I helped a guy out a while back with some work because he "needed the money". He did it got paid and who knows maybe a ton of other people did the same and he made off like a bandit. I met my help quota and if I can help someone again I will.
I mean it is not like we are talking about full on coaching or giving out hundreds. I think helping is part of succeeding.Most people in real need will work for it. There should be a sob story section. Post your dire situation here and maybe get some help, but keep it off the main board.

Some are obviously taking the piss . . .




Whilst others jumped in feet first without experience . . .




Then there's those that just might be genuine :rolleyes: . . .

This is actually a very complex issue and not one that is cut and dried to the
point where you can say yes or no.

I have problems, plenty. But as far as I'm concerned, it's none of anybody's
business other than my close family. Not even my best friends know what I'm
going through right now.

And yes, that's my pride talking.

But what if it got to the point where it came down to life and death and I
knew that this was the ONLY place I could come to for help?

At THAT point, it comes down to WHERE do I post my plea for help?

If I post in OT, probably not as many will see it, though it's probably the only
"legit" area to post such a thing, at least IMO.

If I post in Main Discussion, more see it but is it appropriate there? Well, if
it's related to business, maybe. But what if it's a plea for help, such as in
somebody to work with me?

Isn't that more appropriate to the JV forum?

And if I AM allowed to post here, then what? Shouldn't others be allowed to?

And THEN ... when lots of people start to see that there are a number of "I
need help" stories floating around, they start thinking, "Hey, why not me too?
After all, I need help as well."

And THEN ... the scammers start to see that there are a number of "I need
help" stories floating around and they start thinking, "This is a perfect
opportunity to take these fools for all they've got."

And THAT is when the real trouble starts.

Sure, having Main Discussion suddenly cluttered with "Poor me" stories turns
Main Discussion into a nightmare because ultimately what happens is there is
no meaningful discussion on things like, oh I don't know, marketing?

And THEN ... this forum turns into something it wasn't designed to be.

But still, there are people who need help. And while I don't believe that we
should turn our backs on them, because of the potential for abuse and worse
(cons) how do we just allow it to be widespread?

I don't have a simple solution to this problem because there is none. There
are real stories of terrible suffering out there. There can be no arguing that
much.

The problem is, how far do we let it spread and how do we tell the real stories
from the scams?

My friend, if you have an answer to those questions, you are a better man
than I am.

And now, if you don't mind, I'm going to go back to trying to solve some of
my problems.

At least it gives me something to do.

To me, I feel that a lot of people come here with financial problems, and tell their story expecting others to feel sorry for them and to try and get free stuff!

Like, I have financial problems, personal debts, loan debts, pretty much owe the bank close to $10K, and living off a low-income (less than $40K a year). I'm here to try and learn how I can "do-less-make-more".

I guess people come here with problems and share it, to get advice and what not, but some people just expect to be spoon-fed.

In my experience here, these types of threads can spike, but I would not consider them a growing trend or even something indicative of the nature of this forum. In other words, this forum is not in danger of becoming a "sad story" forum.

There are far more regular threads here than the kind you're talking about. You can always tell what the thread is about by the title. So if this is something people don't want to read, or like, then simply don't read it.

Also, some have commented that it draws out the scammers and the overall effect is to dilute the general good will of people who may be inclined to help. What comes to mind is the parallel between honest marketers with something valuable to sell, and those who are the opposite and are (maybe) only out to scam people.

Let's go offline...

All the legit charities and those who copy the model and are only out to scam and take advantage of people with good hearts who want to help.

What happens here is just a reflection and microcosm of the world. Nothing profound with that thought.

One last thought is the possible effect caused by people having a hard time in life regardless of the reason. From what I've read over the years, people having a tough time can produce a negative effect in some people. The reason for this is it causes fear in some. It's the fear that tough times can happen, and that fear produces any number of negative reactions in people who are not having a hard time.

I don't know if that effect is present in those who are being vocal about these recent threads here in the forum.

I am not a charitable person so people will hate this post.

The problem for me, most the stories I see on here are flat out ridiculous.
Only a very small % pass through as "valid", and if your problem is that serious, you shouldn't be posting on a random forum in the first place.

It would make far more sense to go to a website where most people care. Like indiegogo which was designed for the purpose of collecting charity. WF was designed to drive capitalism/talk about marketing. I know WF is also a business, but its a setting where many people are in need of charity. Not just the ones asking. So when people do ask, it pisses me off. I immediately think about all the people who don't have the balls to ask, and are in even worse life circumstances. Thats what really angers me.

I know I sound cold and evil. Or maybe its because I've been through my own problems in life, and never once thought about coming on the internet for "help". I'll post small nonpersonal problems. But if its a serious problem, I could never put my life in the hands of some forum members, hoping they'd save me. That seems like a death wish all by itself.

I understand there are rare exceptions. Like people who practically live on this forum. In that case, if you have enough people who like you, then it sounds smart.

Its the people who come here saying, "I'm broke, in college, my life sucks... can you help me make $10,000/month working 1 hour a day?"

Or "my wife left me, I lost my job, I can't find work and have looked everywhere... can someone teach me how to get rich?" lol.

Maybe its because I don't trust people. Or maybe its because depending on others isn't always such a smart thing. If your life is f$#ked up, its up to you to fix it. I'm sorry, I know that sounds harsh, but welcome to the real world as my mother would always say.

She also raised me to NEVER ask for handouts. Or to never impose my problems on other people, because as bad as you think you have it, other people have it worse and aren't saying a thing. So WHO AM I to scream "help!" Wouldn't it be smarter to humbly take control of my own life?

And look, I'm not bashing everyone. There are definitely exceptions.
The problem is, those few exceptions become validation for the 97,000 other problems that are posted here.

It would probably be cruel to say people can't post personal problems. But I definitely think it would be cool to set some limits. I remember seeing someone on here by the name of "flag" something, forgot his name. All the kid did was post about his problems and how he wanted to make money. But he NEVER took any action. And he kept coming back whining about things. I almost believe the reason he never took action, was because people tolerated his threads and said "oh poor you, that must suck" blah blah. Warrior forum became some kind of dream world where everyone was empathetic to his problems. And all the people who hated him for whining, all held their breath (till the end at least and people starting losing it on him). If it was my forum, I would have gladly crushed his dreams and deleted all his threads. Right from the second thread he made.

Sounds evil I know. But so is life. And thats the only way you learn anything.

-Red

The purpose of the forum is helping people make money, not for people to cry in their beers over what they don't have or cannot do.

p.s. I don't drink, so when I hear people "crying in their beer", the first thing that comes to my mind is that maybe they could fix their financial problems if they purchased less beer. :p

We all have problems, stresses and challenges, but I should not be telling you about my problems, but rather seeking solutions.

When the conversation moves past seeking solutions into whining, we have a natural dividing line from which to nuke the thread. But, that is just my take.

>Since When Did This Forum Become A Sad Story Forum?

1997, which coincidently is about the time it also became a "let's complain about the 'needy' posts". You probably will want to learn to deal with these types of posts.

Dear Steve,


I agree with your opinion. Perhaps, you will also agree on the fact that coming at this respected forum and asking for help is only possible when someone keeps all the ego and self esteem at some corner. Although, I agree that there are fake people also but I believe that Warriors are smart enough to judge who is fake and who is genuine.


I have recently posted a thread where I have also asked for help because I do really have genuine problem. And I appreciate and thank all the Warriors who have offered me their valuable guidance and help. Why I came to this fourm? I thought this forum is my husband's family as he use to spent many hours here. I am unfortunate that I learnt nothing from him about IM, he is very knowledgeable person of this field (I think so). I don't know anything about IM and didn't even felt the need to learn the same as I was busy in my corporate job. But now I am in real trouble as my husband is in hospital, from last October 2011 he is not well and our all earnings have been stopped and bank balance is nil.


I am not fake, I am real and genuine. I dont want to beg here, I am not a begger. Rather, I wanted some guidance and help to re-establish myself. If you respected Warriors think that I am fake and wasting your time here then I apologize for the same and I will remove my thread. But I want to tell you that I am really in trouble and who so ever have doubts can see my husband's report. I will scan the same and send you.


My husband is a member here from last 6 years and have helped many people here and offline. He is fighting from his disease from April 2008 (when we came to know) and never gave up. But now this Warrior is almost on his death bed in hospital and I dont know what to do as I dont have any savings left and dont even have any earning source. I have no other choice left.


I am hurt seeing such posts, may be because I am in real trouble and seeing such posts are like a snap on me. I am feeling that I have become a begger here which was not my actual intention. I came here because I thought that every one comes accross some or the other trouble/problems in life but when it becomes critical you certainly need help from others. We are human beings and problems are part of our lives, but a person helps the other person in need because GOD cannot directly come and help us, GOD creates a medium to help people like us and that medium is people like you. My husband's disease is such that I cant disclose the same to my friends or relatives here in India. I was too fighting and striving hard for our survival till date, but not my courage have broken too. However, I am afraid that my husband is not aware of my recent thread and if he comes to know then one thing for sure that he will not feel good.


Anyways, I need to raise funds to save my husand's life and grow my kids. Still if you feel that this is not right way then please suggest me what to do?


With Warm Regards,


Preeti

I always looked at it as, if all you're missing is a paddle, you'll be all right. Some people actually end up so far up the creek they end up without a BOAT!

But seriously, I just chalk it up to the time of year. Many times all of this stuff comes out at the beginning of the school year or at Christmas because those are the times when coming up short is noticed most. And all the commercialization of Christmas doesn't help any.

It has been said that during the holidays suicides also spike somewhat, because with all the talk of spending time with loved ones, some people take stock of their lives and look around and realize, their loved ones are either gone or absent from their lives, or that that they have no loved ones and then . . . for some reason it looks like a viable out. Others look around and realize what they are missing and determine that they are going to go out and get what's missing, but instead of working for it they just ask others for it as the easy way out.

And I can see their point. When someone posted a story and video about a bus driver who was verbally abused by a bunch of school kids nobody expected the amount of money raised to end up north of $600,000. But it did. The person starting the fund just thought she could use a vacation. Don't know what she did with the money, but it was likely enough to walk away from that job and never look back! And that encourages the something-for-nothing crowd to give it a shot, this "internet thing".

Most times I just skip these type of threads. We all have problems. I don't know anyone who doesn't. If someone is so desperate, go to your family, friends, or local organizations for the help. I can't count how many times within our family and friends that we'll all given help to each other. Maybe these people are to embarrassed to ask family and friends for help, but have no problem being anonymous on a forum. Also, I don't think that most people know how to be resourceful.

I think it has always been like that. I must say I found it a bit odd at first, but I am now used to it. I mean, we are all different. I may not like some posts here, but who am I to say that they should not have place here?

You can always ignore them.

The reason for that is to get sympathy from the general public, and forcing them to buy or visit your affiliate link...

We have to think about solutions more than problems, and if someone has a problem and they are here, they need to think about what they can do to first change themselves, and then solve the problem. And if in dire straights, they need to go to a church, charity or government office for help.

Preets: You say

While I feel very very deeply for you in your situation, I'm having trouble assimilating some of your assumptions, and consequently, the conclusions that you have drawn from these assumptions.

The Warrior Forum is NOT family. It is a forum where Internet Marketing issues are discussed on a daily basis. I agree that it may feel like family to many, if not all of the members who use and contribute to the forum on a daily basis, but feeling is not basis for fact. The fact is, this is a public marketing forum. Not family.

You also state that you were busy in your corporate job. How is it that you do not see YOUR fellow employees in the corporation where you worked, and obviously, spent a lot of time, as 'family' yet you see an online marketing forum that your husband frequented as family. What am I missing here?

As Steve, the OP of this thread stated:

While I deeply feel for every single person on this forum who is going through difficult times, and I will do what I can when I can to help, I also believe, as other's pointed out, that there are other, more appropriate venues than the Warrior Forum that have been set up to offer assistance to those genuinely in need in most parts of the world.

If your motivation is seeking to raise funds to help you through your times of crisis, that is an honorable motive. However, the question remains - is the WF the most appropriate place to do this given it's structure, membership and ultimately, its purpose or reason for existence?

A couple random thoughts that popped into my head as I read through this thread...

- If a person shows up asking for charity and only has a few posts, there's a reasonable chance they're trying to play us for suckers. If it's a post from an established member who has never solicited help before, chances are reasonable that it's a legitimate request.

In the latter case, this is a community of sorts, and people establish relationships and even genuine friendships. Offline, it's those you have friendships and relationships with that you turn to when in trouble, so it should be no surprise people do the same in their online social circles.

- If a persons health goes to pot and they're getting buried in medical bills - legitimate need. If a person doesn't have the money for some payment because they live beyond their means - start selling stuff. There's a big difference between being in trouble because of unexpected health problems and being in trouble because of irresponsible behavior.

If a person feels so compelled as to tell their story, assuming it is true, then they should be free to do so, wither it is an appropriate medium or not, it is healthy to 'share', it doesn't necessarily mean a request for a hand out. Yes, we all have problems and hardship in life, but some do get down on their luck more then others, and truly need help, even words of encouragement or understanding is something. I figure, if you come across these threads, you have two choices, one, let it go and move on, two get involved, give what ever guidance or assistance you feel compelled to offer that you feel may help with their situation.

Let's see:

1) A warrior is in need and the person offers his/her products/services to that he/she can raise funds. Donations are welcome.

2) A warrior is in need and ask "how can I make money?" and asked if someone can donate to him/her.

I'd rather help warrior (1) than warrior (2).

+1 to OP and thanks for having the guts to raise it. It's about time the mods banned these types of posts. They have no place here.

This is my take, for what it's worth. In my time on the WF I've seen:
1) Appeals on behalf of long standing members. The common thing here is that they haven't been started by the member themselves but by a third party. The appeals were on behalf of long standing members who had given a lot to the community over many years.
2) Appeals made by scammers. I remember about 3 years ago a member who constantly told us all what a "god" fearing person he was and how wonderful he was. He realised that appeals were being made on behalf of someone else and suddenly had a dying father. He was banned
3) Appeals, such as one of the latest, made by people who are desperate to help a family member and are asking for work, not hand outs. We can all make our own judgements about the reliability of the story and decide for ourselves whether or not to give that person work.
4) Appeals, such as another one of the latest, made by people who because of their illness and circumstances maybe aren't thinking as they normally would. Depression is a difficult thing, and I'm sure we've all been there.

Whilst agreeing that WF maybe isn't an appropriate place for posting sad stories, I think we have to accept that for many people the world can be a difficult place sometimes.

I make my own judgement about who to support and who to ignore. I don't knock anyone for having the courage to ask when they are desperate/depressed/alone. Nor do I think any less of them for it. The fellow who is depressed was actually given some good advice in the thread. I hope he follows it and understands that people weren't knocking him, but were trying to help.

It's also easy for people in "poorer" countries to think that all of us in "richer" countries have more money than they do and should give it to them. That simply isn't true. The world economy means that anyone, anywhere can be in difficulties.

I wish I could solve the world's problems, but I can't. I wish I could help everyone in difficulties, but I can't.

I wish both of those posters well. I'm sure it took guts to post what they did and I hope their situations improve.

I also hope that others don't see their stories and think they will "jump on the bandwagon".

Like many situations in life, there are no right or wrong answers imho.

A "forum" is defined as a marketplace or public square for the assembly of the people, as in the ancient Roman Forum.

It also means "an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest." (Dictionary.com)

Which means that people posting about their travails is fine, and you posting about hating those postings is fine.

Personally, after a year of being a member and not posting much because I was scared I would look stupid, I dove right in, discussed the dire position I was in at the time, got suggestions, took action, and now am making a good living thanks to this very forum.

So I side with those that come here seeking help with their "sad stories".

Many people have no support network in their life, other than this forum, and I am proud to say I am a member of a forum where I see so many awesome Warriors step up and help their fellow man/woman.

Sad stories? Yes, unfortunately, with almost 7 Billion people on the planet, there are going to be a few "sad stories", too many I am afraid.

We should just count ourselves lucky to be fortunate enough to help these individuals and give them a chance, not a hand-out, and help guide them to where their hard work will pay off.

Patrick

There is a place for charitable stuff, but I'd suggest it be done very carefully, and only with longstanding contributors here.

For example I think if someone's been a longstanding multi-year member here and has a single isolated health or other emergency and is willing to work hard at a discount to help themselves pay off their bills, or wants to sell some of their stuff at a wso type price, and makes an appeal in a separate part of the forum, that may be ok.

but otherwise you get every darn 3rd-world country (or other) beggar from poor countries here making stuff up to try and take advantage of people, and that's not right.

I give to charity and encourage my lists to, for things like hurricane/disaster relief, children's charities, giving via redcross for relief efforts; that's good. but having some new person in here with a likely made up sad sack story to hustle money, i'd delete/not allow those kinds of posts. Personally I'd much rather contribute to things like children's hospitals than anyone else, since children should be helped first, imo.

and definitely i like the idea of making a 'warriors in need' type Separate subforum, subject to guidelines like the ones above, and never allow such posts in the main forum, as it doesn't look very professional imho; agree w/op

Hi,

NSFW -

What am I missing here?

Seems like there are two different aspects to this conversation.

1. The Sad Stories

These are the stories of people wondering what to do. These are the stories asking for a mentor, a suggestion, an idea - something that will move them forward.

Perhaps they include their back story thinking it will garner empathy from the warriors, and at times, it does.

Perhaps they tell the back stories to show where they are coming from so the people who can help will have a better idea in what to suggest.

Yet, for the most part, the answers are usually the same. The back stories just adds to it, but the answers warriors give them are usually the same with some variation.

I was working with a mentor once, and told him the whole story but before I could finish, he cut me off saying "what is it that you want?" A violin or a solution.

That was a hard hit but it taught me well. The back stories often have nothing to do with moving forward (we aren't talking trauma or the like where many will need closure to move forward and even then, some say it is not needed).

2. The Charity Stories

Seems like this is what most of this thread is about. People asking for charity? I haven't seen a lot of these. I've seen some WSO's supporting an organization or a specific long time member - but for the most part, I am not seeing this (but again, I don't look for them either).

I am a fan of supporting a charity with my work. Whether it is me losing weight (and doing so while supporting a charity for a school for kids with Autism) or running a race (multiple causes) or this year introducing my own charity together with my online work.

Some will say, there is no need for charity in here. Steve Jobs, cut off a charity venture with Apple when he returned to Apple saying let's focus on our growth and only then we can help others (which we didn't see happen).

And I get that. But it is not my style. I like giving. Money and time. It puts me in a better place to do more.

Tony Robbins, since he was 19, started his foundation feeding just one family on Thanksgiving. That was before he had anything. And now....well, we know the story.

OK, I got off track. But I do understand.

We do need to feel a bit more empathetic and understand that some of us have been there, but we also need to be caution as there are plenty who just ask for a handout that are either fake or when help is given, don't use it.

I personally think that the pity/sob story's should be deleted, 9/10 it's people that are looking to be spoon fed. Everyone has problems, however this is not the place to whine about them IMO.

I think it boils down to attitude. Some of these folks get so stuck in despair that it become difficult or seemingly impossible to 'be positive' or optimistic. It becomes a vicious cycle. It is more this loss of hope that I feel for people in these situations. I have experienced extreme financial hardship as well as personal hardship, broken back, lost my brother, relationship, job.... We still struggle, I make a bit online, but not enough to get ahead. Plus I work full time and when Im not working, my wife is. And we have 3 boys to feed and support. But we manage and we count our blessings. Some have been kicked down so much in life that they just can't see their blessings anymore (we all have those too). I went through a period of time after I lost my brother to mental illness that I did not care if I lived or died. I didn't care about much really, high gene went down the tubes, my home turned upside down. I was a single father of an autistic child. I actually often thought that it would be better for us if we both were gone. I lived in this dark cloud of despair and depression where I felt detached from the rest of the world for a long long time. That is the thing when you are in that place, the world keeps turning, people keep living and going about their lives. It is a surreal experience I would not recommend on even my worst enemy. Sure we all have problems and many of us have experienced financial hardship, but this level of hopelessness and despair? I decided that either I figure out how to live again or I would be stuck in this cloud for the rest of my days. Having my son, my sister, my niece and nephew and the prospective of many years ahead of me made me feel staying in this cloud was not what I wanted. How to get out was not clear to me, but thank goodness I did, some don't. Counseling and reading self help books helped me get through this. Some people don't, they stay stuck and it is this empathy for this level of true despair that compels me to say, let these people say what they need to say. If you don't like it, don't read it.