Paypal dispute , What to do ?

20 replies
Hey guys hope you are doing well so i do CPA & PPC coaching where i charge money for my time , So i got message from a guy who wanted me to coach one of his "super affiliate" PPC coaching , Later i came to know that the guy who contacted me has hired that so called super affiliate and the person contacted me is paying his salary + coaching fee so at the end i ended up having a student who can`t understand English (Yes i am bad in English but he was worst ) and there is nothing like SUPER AFFILIATE . So summing up i spent my 15 days of valuable times (coaching time was 7 days ) even when i am out of my homeland for holidays i did coached him and at the end what i get is an email from paypal telling me that the guy who employed my student has opened a dispute against me to get all coaching fee back , What are your thoughts on this ? Should i refund him all coaching fee and consider i wasted my 15 days out of my time ?

I always try my best to teach my students and none of them ever complained , what should i do with this one ?
#dispute #paypal
  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    If you escalate the dispute and just indicate to Paypal
    that it was for coaching with reference to your website
    you should be fine. Paypal would rule in your favor.
    Coaching is a service and not a physical product.

    It's strange to ask for refund on coaching at the
    end of the service.

    -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrick
    Call paypal or reply to the dispute saying it was a service. Refunds are done on products and not services. Also ban that guy who did this, expose him in warrior forum.

    I come across a lot of people like this who think they can use the services of a person and then try to make excuses in your service and open a dispute on paypal. I have had 2-3 such occasions where I have met clients in forums, who wanted a refund from me after I did their work exactly the way they wanted it. None of them got it back though
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  • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Jonbones
    Not a physical product, intangible goods cannot be replaced or returned. Escalate it and it should be decided in your favor.
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  • Profile picture of the author gvannorman
    Escalate the dispute and let PayPal know that you offer coaching services and that is what the payment is for. I personally have never seen this before. But, maybe this guy just wanted some free coaching. But, no I would not refund his payment.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    You really have to wonder about some people. I am trying to get away from such a thing myself.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
    Now, if the payment was through credit card, I would say don't waste your time because paypal will not go against credit card company (Credit Card has the upper hand). You can tell if the payment took place through credit card from the dispute

    If it is not the case try to provide as much evidence (include snapshot of emails) and wish for the best. and don't forget to state clearly that it was a service.
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    • Profile picture of the author MP80
      Originally Posted by jdooley13 View Post

      If they used a credit card and do a chargeback, Paypal will roll over and let them get away with it. Not only that, they will charge you a fee because of the chargeback.

      I provided a service to a customer, corresponded with them PRIOR to providing the service, corresponded with them when the service was completed. All was great. Next day, they filed a claim with Paypal saying someone hacked their account and they did not authorize the service.

      I provided copies of all correspondence to Paypal and eventually got an email saying the Credit Card company was denying the claim and I was stuck.

      Really? I provide correspondence from the person (same email address as Paypal has own file) and they still cannot prevail?

      It is always SELLER beware with Paypal.
      Originally Posted by onegoodman View Post

      Now, if the payment was through credit card, I would say don't waste your time because paypal will not go against credit card company (Credit Card has the upper hand). You can tell if the payment took place through credit card from the dispute

      If it is not the case try to provide as much evidence (include snapshot of emails) and wish for the best. and don't forget to state clearly that it was a service.
      Anyone else had experiences like these with chargebacks (through a credit card company?)

      I'm wondering if providing the same kind of information (that Mark suggested) to the credit card company, can be used to win a dispute?

      Do many IMers win disputes against chargebacks, and is it worth disputing a refund request if the customer used a credit card to purchase?

      btw.. JDooley, I am almost certain that it is illegal for Paypal to pass on a chargeback fee to the customer (you.) Can anyone confirm this, or am I mistaken?

      EDIT: Just did some quick research and looks like I am totally wrong; Paypal does have the right to pass on the chargeback fee to merchants.

      From Wikipedia:

      To encourage compliance, acquirers may charge merchants a penalty for each chargeback received.

      In addition, Visa and MasterCard may levy severe fines against acquiring banks that retain merchants with high chargeback frequency. Acquirers typically pass such fines directly to the merchant. Merchants whose ratios stray too far out of compliance may trigger card association fines of $100 or more per chargeback.

      Consumers may abuse the chargeback mechanism at the expense of merchants. For example, consumers who experience buyer's remorse, or engage in other forms of friendly fraud, may habitually reverse transactions.

      Only 21% of chargebacks lodged globally are decided in favour of the merchant.
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  • Profile picture of the author aarthielumalai
    Originally Posted by speedylikesKJ View Post

    Hey guys hope you are doing well so i do CPA & PPC coaching where i charge money for my time , So i got message from a guy who wanted me to coach one of his "super affiliate" PPC coaching , Later i came to know that the guy who contacted me has hired that so called super affiliate and the person contacted me is paying his salary + coaching fee so at the end i ended up having a student who can`t understand English (Yes i am bad in English but he was worst ) and there is nothing like SUPER AFFILIATE . So summing up i spent my 15 days of valuable times (coaching time was 7 days ) even when i am out of my homeland for holidays i did coached him and at the end what i get is an email from paypal telling me that the guy who employed my student has opened a dispute against me to get all coaching fee back , What are your thoughts on this ? Should i refund him all coaching fee and consider i wasted my 15 days out of my time ?

    I always try my best to teach my students and none of them ever complained , what should i do with this one ?
    Once you delivered the service, you don't have to give them a refund, unless you have a refund policy (like a 30 day money back guarantee or something)? If not, escalate the dispute. Paypal does not offer a refund for intangible goods unless the seller allows it. Hope you get this sorted out soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gerald Arno
    Banned
    There should be no refund for intangible services like coaching.

    It should be clear, visible, and obvious from your sales page that there is no refund for a coaching program or consulting service. If someone persists to get a money back guarantee, I gladly decline him as a client. People who ask for a refund will never make it online.

    In my opinion, it's only ethical to ask for a refund if you didn't get what you paid for (tangible product) or you got something entirely different. But again, this doesn't speak for services.

    You don't go to the hairdresser and ask for a refund once she is done cutting. That's absurd. You decide that you don't want a haircut before you go in, or don't go in at all.

    If you go with the mindset into business that your only way to succeed is by making sure you get your money back, you are just wasting your time.

    Weak mindset leads to weak results.

    Strong mindset leads to strong results.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
    Banned
    Originally Posted by eglassman88 View Post


    Tell PayPal that you were offering a service and not a physical product. It's in their terms that they don't protect buyers against non-physical products.
    Correct ^.

    In fact, I've just had one too, spent several days doing a piece of copywriting for a client then out of the blue he did a chargeback against me at Paypal to get his money paid back to his account after spending the best part of 4 days on his project.

    Bundle up what you've sent to him so far into a PDF, upload this file in the Resolution Center where it says to add files to support your claim (include all emails exchanged in your communication with this student in this case).

    Then get on the phone to Paypal. Where the robotic voice asks you to explain what your problem is, just say: Chargebacks.

    When you get a person on the other end, explain the situation to them making sure to mention that it's a SERVICE you offer online and that the supporting previously uploaded PDF in the resolution center supports your case that they have in fact received your service.

    Next ask them (Paypal) to refund the money which is rightfully yours and for this full amount to be paid back into your account and can the case next be fully closed down?

    Do this and you will, without fail receive the money back in your account again.

    It's worked for me without exception in 100% of the cases where other people on the most spurious excuses have demanded their money back again.

    The way I see it is, the second you start helping somebody who pays upfront for a service, the second you start the process of helping them this person is taking from you your valuable time and expertise. Time and knowledge which has to be paid for. I don't care whether it's for 1 hour or 50 hours, I will not tolerate anyone wasting my time in this manner. Period.

    Good luck!


    Mark Andrews
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    • Profile picture of the author Alfred M
      I've had to deal with Chargebacks before and my biggest problem with them is HOW LONG paypal takes to "review" the case. It takes MONTHS to even get the money back.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Alfred M View Post

        I've had to deal with Chargebacks before and my biggest problem with them is HOW LONG paypal takes to "review" the case. It takes MONTHS to even get the money back.
        Cannot speak for Paypal in north America but here in the UK the money will be returned to you instantly if you follow my instructions above.

        Before you've even had a chance to put the phone down the money will be back in your account.


        Mark Andrews
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        • Profile picture of the author WorkAround
          Hello guys.

          That's a great set of guidelines to go through when dealing with a chargeback on paypal Mark.

          So let's say that someone asked me to get a website made for them, paypal is the only way to get the money off them and the person gets their website.

          They then go to paypal and ask for a chargeback and give the excuse of not getting their website.

          Will paypal listen to me, instead of the false chargeback?

          This is a great set of things to do if someone makes a false chargeback on you with paypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author jdooley13
    If they used a credit card and do a chargeback, Paypal will roll over and let them get away with it. Not only that, they will charge you a fee because of the chargeback.
    I provided a service to a customer, corresponded with them PRIOR to providing the service, corresponded with them when the service was completed. All was great. Next day, they filed a claim with Paypal saying someone hacked their account and they did not authorize the service.
    I provided copies of all correspondence to Paypal and eventually got an email saying the Credit Card company was denying the claim and I was stuck.
    Really? I provide correspondence from the person (same email address as Paypal has own file) and they still cannot prevail?
    It is always SELLER beware with Paypal.
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    • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
      Originally Posted by eglassman88 View Post

      Tell PayPal that you were offering a service and not a physical product. It's in their terms that they don't protect buyers against non-physical products.
      Yup
      its just 1, so you shouldnt be worried.

      Paypal will rule in your favour.

      You should only be worried if there are a number of people disputing with you.
      Then paypal might freeze your account and investigate.

      But if its just 1 guy, no problem.
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  • Profile picture of the author moneyman2010
    Yea if its a service and not a physical product most of the time PayPal will rule in favor of the buyer..check out the TOS...
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    • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
      Originally Posted by moneyman2010 View Post

      Yea if its a service and not a physical product most of the time PayPal will rule in favor of the buyer..check out the TOS...
      For a service (which is an intangible non-eBay product) PayPal will ALWAYS rule in favor of the SELLER. Why, you ask? Because 'PayPal buyer protection' only covers tangible items.

      This is perhaps the biggest mis-understanding in the history of online business. So many sellers have no idea they NEVER have to lose a dollar.

      Of course this is only true with native PayPal payments. If the customer used a credit card then they can still charge back.

      The best bet it to handle the customer refund before it reaches this stage. Set a policy for refunds and honor it.
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