How can I test my WSO sales page conversions before paying $40?

35 replies
Hi everybody - I've just completed my very first WSO and really need to learn how to make some improvements before doing a second one - so maybe somebody can help?
To start with I think I have some great, fairly unique and useful software to offer customers.
I decided on a price of $7 and promoted through WarriorPlus with 50% affiliate commission.
My conversion rate of hops to sales was only 3% - not great but that seems to be typical for many offers - yet that only produces around 20 cents a click to share - not very exciting.
If I offer 100% commission, then I need much more cash than I have available to keep bumping at $40 a shot.
At 50% commission, if I pay to bump my WSO direct traffic is less than half that from affiliates so sales will drop to a third.
Yes I'm creating a buyers list, but is a WSO really more effective than other ways of getting traffic and buyers?
I'd really love to get to the position of at least breaking even on paying for traffic and sales sometime soon.
But I can't initially put up a web page to split test my offer with PPC traffic before listing as a WSO - because then it wouldn't be a WSO! So how do you do this?
Maybe you can also let me know the level of cents per click that would attract some major marketers?

Thanks for taking the time to read - and maybe help?
Steve
#$40 #conversions #page #paying #sales #wso
  • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
    But I can't initially put up a web page to split test my offer with PPC traffic before listing as a WSO - because then it wouldn't be a WSO!
    Says who...?
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    • Profile picture of the author seafrontsteve
      Are you saying it's OK to actually first offer products for the same price as WSO?
      Or do I just need to add a little more to the price?
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrick
    Code:
    How can I test my WSO sales page conversions before paying $40?
    Definitely not by spamming..
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    If you give so much details about your WSO in your post
    with the link in your signature then you'll be seen as
    promoting your WSO without paying the $40.

    But on another note, NEVER, NEVER,NEVER in a public
    forum say that you can't afford to pay $40 if you
    are selling something. People don't want to buy
    from broke people. They want to buy from rich
    people.

    -Ray Edwards
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    The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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    • Profile picture of the author seafrontsteve
      Thanks Ray - I have removed my signature, as that is not my intention as I consider the offer over.
      It's not that I can't afford to pay $40 - I can and have, but I'd like to get at least $40 of value in return and still haven't figured out how to do this
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    • Profile picture of the author Patrick
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      If you give so much details about your WSO in your post
      with the link in your signature then you'll be seen as
      promoting your WSO without paying the $40.

      But on another note, NEVER, NEVER,NEVER in a public
      forum say that you can't afford to pay $40 if you
      are selling something. People don't want to buy
      from broke people. They want to buy from rich
      people.

      -Ray Edwards

      People want to buy products which have value and information. The bank account of the creator doesn't matter.

      One of the reasons why over-hyped income proof screenshots are shown in sales pages ?
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      • Profile picture of the author seafrontsteve
        Unfortunately, reading other threads today, suggests the success of a WSO depends more on the quality and hype of a sales page than the value and quality of the product - that's where I come unstuck

        Originally Posted by schwarzes View Post

        People want to buy products which have value and information. The bank account of the creator doesn't matter.

        One of the reasons why over-hyped income proof screenshots are shown in sales pages ?
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      • Profile picture of the author Raydal
        Originally Posted by schwarzes View Post

        People want to buy products which have value and information. The bank account of the creator doesn't matter.

        One of the reasons why over-hyped income proof screenshots are shown in sales pages ?
        That's what you'll want to think but this is NOT TRUE.

        The same product sold by a rich marketer and a broke
        one would sell more for the rich than the poor marketer.

        People like to know they are buying from businesses
        who don't need their money.

        You can split-test this for yourself.

        -Ray Edwards
        Signature
        The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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        • Profile picture of the author seafrontsteve
          Is that because they pay big bucks to get great copy for a sales page or because because of their reputation or both?
          I tend to agree - but haven't worked out the best way to start out without either of these?

          Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

          That's what you'll want to think but this is NOT TRUE.

          The same product sold by a rich marketer and a broke
          one would sell more for the rich than the poor marketer.

          People like to know they are buying from businesses
          who don't need their money.

          You can split-test this for yourself.

          -Ray Edwards
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          • Profile picture of the author Raydal
            Originally Posted by seafrontsteve View Post

            Is that because they pay big bucks to get great copy for a sales page or because because of their reputation or both?
            I tend to agree - but haven't worked out the best way to start out without either of these?
            If you are just starting out you don't have to pretend you
            are rich, but you don't have to mention your financial
            situation either. In selling, you are dealing with human
            nature and prospects don't want to think that they
            are "helping out" the marketer by purchasing their
            stuff. They want to think they are buying into their
            success.

            About 10 years ago, a client called in the phone to
            ask about my copywriting service. I joked with
            him saying that I thought he was a bill collector.
            He didn't cut the conversation there but just from
            the sound of his voice I knew he didn't want me
            writing for him. I was right. I never heard back from
            him again.

            Of course this is just one illustrative incidence, but
            especially when selling higher ticker items you don't
            want to portray a 'poor' image. This is the reason
            why real estate agents dress in fancy suits and drive
            cars they can't afford to buy. They are selling expensive
            products.

            -Ray Edwards
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            The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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            • Profile picture of the author seafrontsteve
              Thanks Ray,
              I fully undersand your point about not saying you're broke.
              I'm not - and obviuosly didn't explain that properly.
              The point I was trying to make is that nobody, no matter how much money they have, wants to keep spending (even $40) if they don't think they are getting $40 of value.
              I'm also not saying WSO's aren't worth $40 - but that I don't understand how to get enough value from them to keep repeating what I have just tried.
              So I'd really like a noddies guide of the steps to take to move from my present situation to one where it makes sense for me to keep doing new WSO's or bumping old ones.

              There's obviously lots of ways people know how to profitably use WSO. Some on WarriorPro have been bumped humdreds of times - yet appear to make no sales!
              I'd love to know some of these tricks.
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        • Profile picture of the author Patrick
          Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

          That's what you'll want to think but this is NOT TRUE.

          The same product sold by a rich marketer and a broke
          one would sell more for the rich than the poor marketer.

          People like to know they are buying from businesses
          who don't need their money.

          You can split-test this for yourself.

          -Ray Edwards
          Test what ? How to fake myself to show off i am rich and a self-appointed expert ?
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          • Profile picture of the author Raydal
            Originally Posted by schwarzes View Post

            Test what ? How to fake myself to show off i am rich ?
            You've missed the point altogether.

            Who said that you should lie? I said that
            you just do not say that you are poor.

            -Ray Edwards
            Signature
            The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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        • Profile picture of the author Patrick
          Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

          That's what you'll want to think but this is NOT TRUE.

          The same product sold by a rich marketer and a broke
          one would sell more for the rich than the poor marketer.

          You can split-test this for yourself.

          -Ray Edwards

          This........
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  • Profile picture of the author karlmay1980
    WSO's are usually the place to test how good your copy is and get reviews on a product, so I would say that is the starting place, but if it is a good valuable product and not junk then get a copy out the influential people on this forum and try get them to promote it, I cant see why they wouldn't as long as it is good and fits in with their usual promotions.

    You should also put your original WSO live in another marketplace to make sure it recoups your money, after all if you cant make the basic $40 back on a product launch then something is going wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author yourreviewer
    Why have you opened three threads to ask your question?
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    • Profile picture of the author seafrontsteve
      Didn't know I had.
      warrior Forum kept crashing saying database error when I was trying to post.
      I'll try to delete the extra ones.

      found one extra one - but it says invalid thread to me

      Originally Posted by yourreviewer View Post

      Why have you opened three threads to ask your question?
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  • Profile picture of the author edpudol1973
    If you have a good product and useful to internet marketer. You may want to contact big names and introduce your product to them.

    Offer them 60 - 70 percent commission
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    • Profile picture of the author seafrontsteve
      Thanks for the suggestion.
      For now I'm wondering whether to first bump the price up and offer on Clickbank?

      Originally Posted by edpudol1973 View Post

      If you have a good product and useful to internet marketer. You may want to contact big names and introduce your product to them.

      Offer them 60 - 70 percent commission
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7508131].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author karlmay1980
    What you need to do is write good copy that sells the product and then people will find out its true value, if it is quality then your not ripping them off.

    If you give them value put in a system that collects the feedback and also has them sharing this with others therefore maximising what you get from each lead and sale, this also then becomes social proof of how good what your selling is, and then you will sell more.

    You can then bump the price up due to demand when you put it on the other bigger market places.
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    • Profile picture of the author seafrontsteve
      Thanks for the suggestion KarlMay
      I guess that leads to the question "where do I find good copywriters at a reasonable price?"
      Good = enought to get WSO conversions up to 5 - 10% range
      Reasonable = I have no idea how much I need to pay.
      I know some guru's say they pay $10k + commission for copywriting - and I'm not looking for anything like that.

      Originally Posted by karlmay1980 View Post

      What you need to do is write good copy that sells the product and then people will find out its true value, if it is quality then your not ripping them off.

      If you give them value put in a system that collects the feedback and also has them sharing this with others therefore maximising what you get from each lead and sale, this also then becomes social proof of how good what your selling is, and then you will sell more.

      You can then bump the price up due to demand when you put it on the other bigger market places.
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  • Profile picture of the author jpsween88
    If you want to test it, while trying to gain profits I would suggest solo ads. This will help you get instant traffic (& hopefully profit) towards a targeted group of people. This can be very inexpensive and if done properly yield a great roi.

    You can go to "hiring now" section or "looking for help" on this forum to find a reliable solo ad business in your niche.

    Hope this helps
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    Please do not use your signature to promote affiliate/MLM programs

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    • Profile picture of the author seafrontsteve
      Originally Posted by jpsween88 View Post

      If you want to test it, while trying to gain profits I would suggest solo ads. This will help you get instant traffic (& hopefully profit) towards a targeted group of people. This can be very inexpensive and if done properly yield a great roi.

      You can go to "hiring now" section or "looking for help" on this forum to find a reliable solo ad business in your niche.

      Hope this helps
      Thanks for the suggestion.
      I have tried solo ads - but most only allow links to free offers.
      If you can recommend any that accept product referrals you can recommend, I'd love to have their details.
      Thanks
      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    I am *not* a WSO creator; I've never made one. Probably never will. (Don't quote me on that).

    But, I've been marketing and selling a variety of products and services (my own and affiliates) for well over a decade.

    It seems to me the question you're asking is "why wasn't my WSO profitable".

    All advertising methods have hidden intricacies.

    $40 for an "ad" (a WSO is essentially a paid ad with built in feedback) that brings targeted traffic from the warriorforum seems like a relatively good marketing method. But what are the hidden intricacies of a successful WSO launch? - One (in my opinion) is having your own list to promote it to. Feed the WSO platform with your own traffic. Another secret that I've observed is having reviewers who will say your product is the bee's knees. (This is sure to offend some people, but think of me as Honest Abe; positive reviews in the WSO forum are paramount to your success, and negative feedback can cripple you; I've witnessed this on a few occasions) - Finally, having people that help promote it is key.

    (NOTE: To experienced WSO creators who say I'm wrong, calm down (lol, some of these WSO creators are quite fierce indeed); again I've never sold one, and this information is based upon my observation alone. If you think I'm so wrong, correct me.)

    As to why it's not profitable for you? Well, you already have the statistics, you can tell better than anyone.

    Maybe your copywriting absolutely sucked?

    Maybe your conversions weren't great. At $40, it shouldn't take too many $7 sales to make your money back; but perhaps the demand for your product wasn't as high as you thought?

    Maybe your backend wasn't great (no upsells? You should have immediate upsells! Just ask McDonalds or GoDaddy what they think about upsells, and if they're statistically profitable). - At the very least, you should have an autoresponder promoting some type of upsell, preferably a high priced upsell.

    And finally, maybe your starting price was too low! (Would it have sold just as well with a $17 price? $27? $37?) Just food for thought.

    PS: I have no idea what your offer was, if you want PM me and I'll give it a second look.
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    • Profile picture of the author seafrontsteve
      Thanks Sarevok,
      I really appreciate your helpful reply.
      My copy definitely sucks - I pretty sure about that (even though I paid a few people to suggest copy)
      One major problem I have is that I am offering genuine, useful software.
      And haven't found marketing guru's doing this (other than wordpress plugins etc)
      So the advice I get from them is to sell at low prices (like $5) - which is possibly higher than the value of info-marketing products that typically get sold as WSOs?
      For upsells I could follow the herd and cobble together affiliate offers of other regurgitated PLR - and I REALLY don't want to start doing that.
      So for now I'm left with selling another of my software products at the same time as an upsell - and my preference is to sell one at a time.

      I'll take up your kind offer and write a pm now.
      Thanks and kind regards,
      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author williamrs
    Steve,

    In order to create a successful WSO you will have to make an investment. You will have to spend money on copywriting, designing, banners and promotion, payment processor, etc... Membership sites may involve expenses with platforms and plugins as well.

    So, $40 is just a small expense, a drop in the sea. It shouldn't be a problem for someone working with a good launch plan. After you launch the WSO and your JVs start mailing you should expect to make way more money than $40.

    If you have a product but don't know how to launch it, I recommend you to make some research and learn about product launch and JV promotions. Creating the product is just part of the process, promoting it properly is also a challenge.


    Regards,

    William
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    • Profile picture of the author seafrontsteve
      William,
      Whilst I agree "So, $40 is just a small expense, a drop in the sea" what I am finding REALLY tough is discovering a plan to at least break even at minimum cost.
      I really don't know up front how much I need to invest in 'a good launch plan' before I have a reasonable expectation of at least breaking even.
      For example, the big guys offer affiliate bonuses - but, so far as I can tell, never start this off from ZERO?
      What I'd like to learn is a minimum $ risk plan with a good possibility of breaking even that I can test and repeat until I start making a profit.
      Like many things online I've got information overload from all the possible things I could do for a product launch - but very little clarity on this bits that are essential even if I have to pay for them.
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      • Profile picture of the author williamrs
        Originally Posted by seafrontsteve View Post

        William,
        Whilst I agree "So, $40 is just a small expense, a drop in the sea" what I am finding REALLY tough is discovering a plan to at least break even at minimum cost.
        I really don't know up front how much I need to invest in 'a good launch plan' before I have a reasonable expectation of at least breaking even.
        For example, the big guys offer affiliate bonuses - but, so far as I can tell, never start this off from ZERO?
        What I'd like to learn is a minimum $ risk plan with a good possibility of breaking even that I can test and repeat until I start making a profit.
        Like many things online I've got information overload from all the possible things I could do for a product launch - but very little clarity on this bits that are essential even if I have to pay for them.
        If your intention is not to conduct a normal launch now, but just get your foot wet and test your WSO, I think you could do a rolling launch. Post the thread and then promote the offer with ad swaps (put the offer on your thank you pages and autoresponder series) and get some JVs along the next days (contact people and offer them an exchange, you promote their product and they promote yours).

        If you already have a good list, also consider conducting an internal launch first, put the sales letter on one of your sites and send them to that page to see if it converts.

        You mentioned that so far you've had a conversion rate around 3% with a $7 product. I honestly don't think it's very good. Of course, when well-known marketers conduct a huge launch they have 2 things in their favor: their name/brand and the "impact" of a huge launch (many people promoting the productn and talking about it during the pre-launch period).

        But at $7, you should try to get something better than 3% (it would give you an EPC around $0.20, which is not very attractive for affiliates), so consider an internal and a rolling launch, because it will give you time to test the sales copy and improve it. Then, consider creating a new (more advanced) version of the product and conducting a bigger launch in the future.


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  • Profile picture of the author karlmay1980
    If you dont have big money for a copywriter, try do a deal with one that maybe is quite new, you could ask them to do the copy for a percentage of the sales.

    Obviously make sure they have generated a few decent sales elsewhere first.

    try looking around this forum and I am sure you will find someone, give them the product, so they can see its value and work together on it, if you can make more than your money back because they can increase your percentage to a new level then all the better.

    But I would still try and get some marketers with big lists to check over the product and get them to promote, this way you get better traffic numbers and better conversions.
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    • Profile picture of the author seafrontsteve
      Originally Posted by karlmay1980 View Post

      If you dont have big money for a copywriter, try do a deal with one that maybe is quite new, you could ask them to do the copy for a percentage of the sales.

      Obviously make sure they have generated a few decent sales elsewhere first.

      try looking around this forum and I am sure you will find someone, give them the product, so they can see its value and work together on it, if you can make more than your money back because they can increase your percentage to a new level then all the better.

      But I would still try and get some marketers with big lists to check over the product and get them to promote, this way you get better traffic numbers and better conversions.
      Any copywriters interested in helping?
      Please drop me a pm
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  • Profile picture of the author FirstSocialApps
    Hey Steve,

    Just wanted to give you a tip since you and I both sell software. Something I have noticed is that when I first post a WSO I get good traffic but a lower conversion rate (Around 1%) this is from the window shoppers just browsing the top threads on the forum. However when I let the WSO fall to the 4th or 5th page I get much less traffic, but much higher conversions (around 5.5%), I believe it is because at this point my traffic is from people actually looking to buy software.
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