20 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}
20 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}

Single opt in VS Double Conformation

by Troy_Phillips
15 replies
As most of you who have read much of what I write know, I have never been a big fan of double (conformation) opt in. Since I am also a big fan of testing I decided to see what the numbers would be in comparison.

This is not a real test as I didn't measure actual traffic but actual signups and open rate and it kind of told me what I needed to know.

I did 200 signups in the WF and also the same number outside of the WF.

100 were single opt in 100 were double conformation for each group.

The single conformation group outside the WF had an open rate (average between 3 broadcast) of 72%. The double conformation group had 12 people not confirm. Their open rate was 68%. No Unsubs

The WF single opt in group opened at a little over 80%. The double opt in group had 31 non confirms. Yeah ... 31.The open rate was almost 49%. 1 unsub.

Pretty much identical campaign on all phases. There was no buy buttons presented in any emails.

The outside WF groups took 6 days to reach 200 signups. The WF group only took 4. No paid traffic was used outside the WF and only answers and no threads inside the WF. All campaigns were run 45 days ago. In other words .. no tricks or anything special in either campaign. Everything was content based campaigns .. no affiliates.

I was rather surprised at the WF results. Out of the 31 no confirms, the majority of them came from the same general area. After talking with some WSO sellers here .. it is the same area a lot of the serial returns come from.

I knew from past experience outside the WF is more responsive but I just never thought that the WF numbers would be so different. This is just a guess but I do not think it would have made a difference to those who did not confirm if they had been the ones going into the single opt in. The WF single opt in group opened at almost 100% for the first email but when they saw they were going to need to open more emails to get the information .. the next two email opens dropped considerably ... like I said .. to an average of 49%.

Once again those who were not opening the 2nd and 3rd emails were mostly from the same region.

My conclusions ... Single opt in or double opt in does not make a huge difference here. If you build your list strictly from the WF you probably are better off trimming that list every 7 days or so.

The list you do glean from the WF, after trimming the no opens and no confirms is a very responsive list. Like I said .. I never offered a buy button to any list member. I had 3 non WF members contact me and ask to be mentored for a fee.

I had 11 WF members contact me and request the same mentoring.

The fully trimmed non WF list now stands at 147 members. The trimmed WF group 107. If I had something to sell today .. I would contact the WF group first.

Troy
#conformation #double #opt #single
  • Profile picture of the author williamrs
    Nice case study!

    I almost always use single opt-in, because just like you, I used to get many non confirms. However, I didn't have the information that the non confirms come mostly from the same region and are serial refunders. If this is true, it may be easier to use double opt-in and get rid of those guys right away and avoid further problems.

    Thanks a lot for sharing!


    W
    Signature
    Steal My Profit Strategy



    >> Download Now <<
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7508662].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
      Originally Posted by williamrs View Post

      Nice case study!

      I almost always use single opt-in, because just like you, I used to get many non confirms. However, I didn't have the information that the non confirms come mostly from the same region and are serial refunders. If this is true, it may be easier to use double opt-in and get rid of those guys right away and avoid further problems.

      Thanks a lot for sharing!


      W
      I use Get Response and they offer a feature that lets me see who is opening and who isn't. I guess that is probably standard with the other AR programs but I don't know.

      It is just as easy to offer non confirm and trim the no opens after three or four emails.

      I was almost tempted to just block certain areas but have a couple of members from those areas who are just good people. I enjoy interacting with them. NO need of painting with too wide a brush.

      I wouldn't let one study ... especially by me, make a decision for you.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7508740].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author williamrs
        Originally Posted by Troy_Phillips View Post

        I use Get Response and they offer a feature that lets me see who is opening and who isn't. I guess that is probably standard with the other AR programs but I don't know.

        It is just as easy to offer non confirm and trim the no opens after three or four emails.

        I was almost tempted to just block certain areas but have a couple of members from those areas who are just good people. I enjoy interacting with them. NO need of painting with too wide a brush.

        I wouldn't let one study ... especially by me, make a decision for you.
        No, I wasn't tlaking about blocking people from certain areas, I was just talking about using double opt-in again to see if it works as well as single opt-in (it should, if most non confirms are not good subscribers).

        In fact, I have many good customers from the "high-risk" areas, so I'd never block an entire region. I think it's better to deal with the serial refunders and keep them.


        W
        Signature
        Steal My Profit Strategy



        >> Download Now <<
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7508768].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Joey Starkey
    I prefer single opt-in for MMO and IM. But for what I consider more civilian niches, Weight loss,
    business funding, herbal supplements I lean more too double opt-in.

    I just feel the MMO crowd is more used to being marketed too.

    Of course my biggest concern is not people not confirming or opening emails. But submitting
    spam complaints.

    Troy nice thread
    Signature
    The Memphis Gourmet
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7509662].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
      Originally Posted by Joey Starkey View Post

      I prefer single opt-in for MMO and IM. But for what I consider more civilian niches, Weight loss,
      business funding, herbal supplements I lean more too double opt-in.

      I just feel the MMO crowd is more used to being marketed too.

      Of course my biggest concern is not people not confirming or opening emails. But submitting
      spam complaints.

      Troy nice thread
      Thanks Joey,

      I never have worried much with spam complaints with single or double opt in. You have a record using either to show when and what IP they used to sign up.

      Most of the crowd outside the MMO niche actually think they are unsubbing by hitting the spam button. Although I get very, and I mean very few spam complaints, none of them have ever hurt me for the fact I have proof of them signing up.

      Ironically, the few complaints I have gotten over the years have come from the MMO niche. They are suppose to know better. Of course the word spam is used so loosely anymore ... many in every niche don't understand the true meaning.

      Out of years of testing, I have not ever noticed a significant difference in those hitting the spam button from single or double conformation. Manner of signup has not made a difference. Content, not emailing enough/too much, and people thinking they were unsubbing seem to be the main reasons.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7509713].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mrelk159
    Great study and definitely useful information, double confromation is a great tool for more saturated niches.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7510154].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
      Originally Posted by mrelk159 View Post

      Great study and definitely useful information, double confromation is a great tool for more saturated niches.
      Glad you enjoyed the study but would like to know how you used any of the numbers provided to concur double was better than single?
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7524366].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Troy, I'm curious. When you ran the confirmed opt-in, did you have any verbiage near the form or in the confirmation page about making sure the person really wanted to subscribe or that you hated spam or respected their privacy?

        The reason I ask is that for lists outside the MMO/IM niches, I use the confirmation more as a combination filter and commitment device than any kind of anti-spam statement. I don't even want the notion of sending spam coming up.

        Rather, I use the confirmation stage to up the commitment, ala Cialdini's example of starting with a small favor and gradually escalating it.

        The first step is the initial opt in - they've taken the step to enter their email address.

        The next escalation is when I ask for a favor, that being clicking a link to verify that email went through correctly. This also reaffirms that they want the next email.

        IIRC, in Cialdini's example, people were first asked to put a small notice in their windows, then a small lawn sign, and finally a larger sign. The control was people who simply were asked to put up the last sign. Those who started with small steps accepted the larger sign much more often than those who were simply asked to place the larger sign.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7524426].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          Troy, I'm curious. When you ran the confirmed opt-in, did you have any verbiage near the form or in the confirmation page about making sure the person really wanted to subscribe or that you hated spam or respected their privacy?

          The reason I ask is that for lists outside the MMO/IM niches, I use the confirmation more as a combination filter and commitment device than any kind of anti-spam statement. I don't even want the notion of sending spam coming up.

          Rather, I use the confirmation stage to up the commitment, ala Cialdini's example of starting with a small favor and gradually escalating it.

          The first step is the initial opt in - they've taken the step to enter their email address.

          The next escalation is when I ask for a favor, that being clicking a link to verify that email went through correctly. This also reaffirms that they want the next email.

          IIRC, in Cialdini's example, people were first asked to put a small notice in their windows, then a small lawn sign, and finally a larger sign. The control was people who simply were asked to put up the last sign. Those who started with small steps accepted the larger sign much more often than those who were simply asked to place the larger sign.
          John,

          I run a privacy link at the bottom of the squeeze but do not add anything on the actual form. Part of this comes from the point of not even wanting spam to cross the reader's mind as you pointed out, another part of it comes from the fact my tos states how their information will be used.

          Those of us who use W+ and/or JVZ may at some point be sharing their email addresses. I don't want to lie them over an email address. While I do not intentionally share or sell the information .. some of the shared scripts we use might.

          Troy
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7524616].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Confined To Life
    Really good information. I think there may be an issue though. Did you get equal traffic from WF and other sources for both of the two opt-in options? Or did you only use WF for the double opt-in and used another source for the single opt-in?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7510164].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
      Originally Posted by Confined To Life View Post

      Really good information. I think there may be an issue though. Did you get equal traffic from WF and other sources for both of the two opt-in options? Or did you only use WF for the double opt-in and used another source for the single opt-in?
      Like I said .. I did not have a way yo tell how many unique hit from the WF as only the Admin would have those exact numbers. I simply switched forms when the single opt in hit 100.

      The outside WF traffic was monitored better but I still used the same principle.

      In other words .. I know how many people clicked to the squeeze versus how many signed up but have no idea how many showed up to the WF party.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7524359].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
    The fully trimmed non WF list now stands at 147 members. The trimmed WF group 107. If I had something to sell today .. I would contact the WF group first.
    curious - why would you contact the WF list first?
    Signature

    -Jason

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7524471].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
      Originally Posted by jasonl70 View Post

      curious - why would you contact the WF list first?
      Jason,

      The WF list is a lot more responsive. This is due to my participation here as I have really not worked either list very much. The deal is .. 12-31-12 .. all my list in the MMO niche will be deleted. I will send one broadcast inviting them to my new list .. only one. That list will be entirely separate from all other list I have.

      1-1-13 will start a brand new case study/product showing how I build a list from scratch and the list will be from scratch as the members watch me build it.

      Since I am just coming off a no compete the list is only a little over 500 anyway (all mmo combined)

      Good to see you around again Jason .. always enjoyed reading your informed threads and post.

      Troy
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7524585].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Gengis
    This is a great study.. I personally would go for the one over the double confirmation because personally i hate if i have to confirm a subscription twice
    Signature
    My Craigslist Arbitrage Method Of Making Money On Demand -->

    http://www.warriorplus.com/w/v/f2fwlp
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7524634].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
      Originally Posted by Gengis View Post

      This is a great study.. I personally would go for the one over the double confirmation because personally i hate if i have to confirm a subscription twice
      Yeah .. I don't care much for double myself but we are not our target market. If someone started feeding email list to my forms I would go double in a heart beat .. one reason you will never see any niches other than MMO from me on the WF.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7525096].message }}

Trending Topics