My first rant...and probably my last... (UPDATE - I've been paid)

by Rsberg
32 replies
I used to be pretty active on the forum and had to get away for a while and now that I'm back I'd like to start off with my very first rant...of sorts...

I won't mention any names of course as that would be against forum rules...but they know who they are...

I was recently invited to be an affiliate for a launch by an "up and comer" who had teamed up with another very well known vendor. Initially I will admit I was taken aback a little as I had only previously been approached by lesser known vendors (such as myself) so in some some way I felt as though I had made someones radar and it was a nice feeling. The product was one I felt was a good fit for my list but more importanly I think it actually has potential if used correctly so I accepted and promoted it.

The launch was a flop, at least in the eyes of the more well known vendor and the up and comer even appologized to the affiliates for poor copy that didn't convert well. As stated before, IMO it was a good product with lots of potential...but being a vendor myself I know things happen and not all launches are a huge success...such is life.

There was an affilate contest for the launch and I placed 3rd. I missed the required sales for the 3rd place prize money by one sale but did qualify for the 4th place prize (they were paying the top 5)...but still felt pretty good about it considering I hadn't been invited to the party until just 2 days prior to launch and didn't have a lot of lead time to properly promote it to my list (at least not as much as I would have liked). Honestly though that didn't really bother me, as I said I felt pretty good about it all things considered.

Now here comes the rub...

It's been a while since the contest was finished and one of the other affiliates who made the final leader board sent me an email asking if I had received my prize money yet. To be honest I had been so busy with my regular job I had forgotten about it (even though I had just seen the leaderboard email about 10 days prior). I told him I hadn't and he said he hadn't either...

That caused me to contact the up and comer and in the end after some tap dancing he told me that all of the money from the WSO went to the well known vendor and that the well known vendor said (and I quote from the Skype convo he pasted to me):

"the launch was a failed launch. we dont pay out prizes on a failed launch. there was no leaderboard. we sold very litle so nobody gets prizes"

(Names removed for obvious reasons)

After reading that I told the up and comer that wasn't acceptable and he told me he had paid the top 2 affiliates himself. I asked why I wasn't paid and in the end it boiled down to the fact that the top 2 were very well known names and he was worried about upsetting them.

As I said earlier...I'm not a big name so I guess it's OK to screw me over (as well as the other lesser known affilates who also made the required sales for their prize levels)...

So...in closing...IMO....it's things like this, the obvious lack of integrity on the part of both vendors (but more importantly the more well known vendor since he received the money from the sales) that gives IM a bad name. If we as a community (yes I know this is only one example but it's certinaly not the first time things like this have happened) wont even take care of our own then what does that say about us and IM?

I know one thing...I seriously doubt I will ever promote any of their future launches!

OK...rant over...thanks for listening.

Wishing you continued success!

Robert S.
#rantand
  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    Hey Robert!

    I'm confused cuz you said you missed the requirement by one sale - so you wouldn't qualify anyway, correct? Just wondering.

    On another note, don't let that one experience sour you on promotions.

    I promoted for someone not too long ago who had a leaderboard and all. I never get into all that - because even though I have an incredible conversion rate usually over 20%, I have a smaller list, so I don't rank like the big boys in volume.

    So this marketer who I had promoted for shocks the hell out of me - his launch was kind of a flop because of some unforeseen issues, so his big promoters didn't get to participate and he told me up front there wouldn't be a contest, etc. Again, I didn't care about that.

    What does he do?

    Sends me $1,000 for the hell of it when my review ends.

    How sweet is that? Keep in mind I only earned $4,000 - so he earned $4,000 too - and gave me 1/4 of his cut.

    Some people just have good ethics. And some don't.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rsberg
      Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

      Hey Robert!

      I'm confused cuz you said you missed the requirement by one sale - so you wouldn't qualify anyway, correct? Just wondering.
      I missed 3rd place prize money but they paid the top 5 so I should have been paid the 4th place prize. Sorry, should have better explained that (just edited my initial post to include that info).

      Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

      On another note, don't let that one experience sour you on promotions.
      It hasn't...just needed to vent really. More importantly I think it's in bad taste and certainly lacks integrity and professionalism for them to handle it that way.

      Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post


      Some people just have good ethics. And some don't.
      My thoughts exactly! I'm glad he took care of you, that shows class, unlike the two bozos I ran into this time.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        all of the money from the WSO
        Shoddy business. The comment above caught my eye - if this was a launch via WSO, I'd be reporting it to the mods. If someone is running "contests" associated with a WSO and not following up with payment as promised - well, one or two less bozos here wouldn't be a bad thing.:p
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        • Profile picture of the author Rsberg
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          Shoddy business. The comment above caught my eye - if this was a launch via WSO, I'd be reporting it to the mods. If someone is running "contests" associated with a WSO and not following up with payment as promised - well, one or two less bozos here wouldn't be a bad thing.:p
          Unfortunately it wasn't a WSO but both do promote WSOs here regularly.

          I totally agree...one or two less sure wouldnt hurt at all
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  • Profile picture of the author KingMedia
    IM is just like a regular biz... dealing with "people" no matter what. You still have the right to SUE if you choose to.

    That's what is comes down too. You have written evidence, etc. It's THEIR fault - they should anty up or face a judge.

    Yeah, I know the time & money to pursue that is silly - but you have a voice - the Internet is vast...
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    • Profile picture of the author Rsberg
      Originally Posted by KingMedia View Post

      but you have a voice - the Internet is vast...

      Yes it is and I have been giving that some thought....
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrick
    Nothing new, this is becoming a trend nowadays, where some idiot comes here, creates an account, does some philosophical blah blah blah in forums agreeing with usually most of the people, and then creating a WSO, catching people like you who are honest and hard working, get sales, vanish !
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    • Profile picture of the author Rsberg
      Originally Posted by schwarzes View Post

      Nothing new, this is becoming a trend nowadays, where some idiot comes here, creates an account, does some philosophical blah blah blah in forums agreeing with usually most of the people, and then creating a WSO, catching people like you who are honest and hard working, get sales, vanish !
      I agree totally but what makes this worse is that both of them have been around here for a while and the one is a very well known marketer and has had several succussful launches...

      He's the kind of guy that appears to others (especially newbies) as someone to immulate, respect and look up to...which IMO couldnt be further from the truth based on his actions and lack of integrity concerning this issue.
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      • Profile picture of the author Patrick
        Originally Posted by Rsberg View Post

        I agree totally but what makes this worse is that both of them have been around here for a while and the one is a very well known marketer and has had several succussful launches...

        He's the kind of guy that appears to others (especially newbies) as someone to immulate, respect and look up to...which IMO couldnt be further from the truth based on his actions and lack of integrity concerning this issue.
        Sadly, that's what internet marketing has been reduced to nowadays (specially in this forum). The competition nowadays is so much that people have to resort to different tactics to sell their products.
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      • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
        Originally Posted by Rsberg View Post

        I agree totally but what makes this worse is that both of them have been around here for a while and the one is a very well known marketer and has had several succussful launches...

        He's the kind of guy that appears to others (especially newbies) as someone to immulate, respect and look up to...which IMO couldnt be further from the truth based on his actions and lack of integrity concerning this issue.
        This is an excellent point, and I have to believe that no marketer worth promoting for would be any less appalled by the behavior you described than any of the rest of us. The good ones are probably just as concerned with getting rid of this type of marketer as you are; it reflects badly on them too.

        Sorry to hear about your experience, but in the end, you will do much better than the criminals who breached the contract they made with you, with nothing more than "we sold very little" as an excuse. I am glad to see not everyone is so anxious to suck up to the "cool kids" that they would mince words about such a blatant ripoff.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheNewGuy2010
    "If we as a community (yes I know this is only one example but it's certinaly not the first time things like this have happened) wont even take care of our own then what does that say about us and IM?"


    It says you live in a fantasy world.
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    Retired Internet Marketer.
    Gone Fishing....
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    • Profile picture of the author Rsberg
      Originally Posted by TheNewGuy2010 View Post

      "If we as a community (yes I know this is only one example but it's certinaly not the first time things like this have happened) wont even take care of our own then what does that say about us and IM?"


      It says you live in a fantasy world.
      Yeah I guess good old fashioned integrity and ethical business practices aren't in style any more...
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Damar
      I understand your frustration and it's not always fair what people do.

      It happens and it's not cool.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrick
    Originally Posted by drunkenmonkey View Post

    Bashing some big hitters launch on a open forum..that's probably your one and last invite your ever gonna get. Those guys all know each other like.

    That's a risky plot you got going on here right now. Never bash launches especially if your an aff.

    That guys next launch could do 7 figures and now your risking getting banned from promoting.

    ^^ In addition to that, he is bashing a liar who promised stuff but didn't deliver. Such a person can never make 7 figures, trust me, karma works
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  • Profile picture of the author Rsberg
    Originally Posted by drunkenmonkey View Post

    Bashing some big hitters launch on a open forum..that's probably your one and last invite your ever gonna get. Those guys all know each other like.

    That's a risky plot you got going on here right now. Never bash launches especially if your an aff.

    That guys next launch could do 7 figures and now your risking getting banned from promoting.
    Well first off I didnt mention his name or the product but more importantly I think you missed the entire point of my post...

    He is cheating affiliates out of contest prize money and blatantly said...

    "the launch was a failed launch. we dont pay out prizes on a failed launch. there was no leaderboard. we sold very litle so nobody gets prizes"

    So thats OK with you? You would just shrug it off because he is a big hitter?

    You can do that if you like but I'm not the type of person to accept that sort of behavior as the norm or being OK simply because someone is a big name...in fact, IMO that big hitter probably didnt get to be a big hitter thinking the way he is now...but now that he is one it's supposed to be OK?
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    • Profile picture of the author NeXtReview
      Originally Posted by Rsberg View Post


      So thats OK with you? You would just shrug it off because he is a big hitter?
      That quote sums up exactly what the Big Hitter is hoping on!

      Thank you for your post and warning.
      I hope my first WSO goes better today then your experience!
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      • Profile picture of the author Rsberg
        Originally Posted by NeXtReview View Post

        I hope my first WSO goes better today then your experience!
        If you offer a quality product and take care of your customers and affiliates you shouldnt have any real issues to speek of.

        Best of luck!
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          No. His launch just flopped.

          It happens. Not every big hitter launch flies. They get failures. I've seen them bounce straight back with a ripper.
          Excuses are a dime a dozen. Yes, launches flop but that isn't an excuse to go back on your word to affiliates. If you promise prizes or bonuses you should have the money to pay them.

          Someone who is a "big name" and can't afford to pay as promised....may not be as big as people are led to believe.
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          • Profile picture of the author Rsberg
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            Yes, launches flop but that isn't an excuse to go back on your word to affiliates. If you promise prizes or bonuses you should have the money to pay them.
            I dont doubt the person has the money to pay the promised prizes. The fact that he chooses not to pay simply because the launch was a flop...that's the sad part and certainly doesn't say much for his charecter IMO.
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            • Profile picture of the author Lloyd Buchinski
              Originally Posted by Rsberg View Post

              I don't doubt the person has the money to pay the promised prizes. The fact that he chooses not to pay simply because the launch was a flop...that's the sad part and certainly doesn't say much for his character IMO.
              It's surprising how many people cannot manage their money. Their idea of exercise is flushing money down the toilet. It could be that the person is just disorganized and busy spending trying to appear successful.

              But thank you for reporting this. It's good to know that this sort of stuff can happen to affiliates. (sigh)
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  • Profile picture of the author the_icon
    Originally Posted by drunkenmonkey View Post

    Bashing some big hitters launch on a open forum..that's probably your one and last invite your ever gonna get. Those guys all know each other like.

    That's a risky plot you got going on here right now. Never bash launches especially if your an aff.

    That guys next launch could do 7 figures and now your risking getting banned from promoting.

    Especially since your name is kind of public on here, he's going to know who you are.

    If he's on jvnp your totally screwed.
    Lol I dont think the OP will be wanting to work with them again anyway also it wasnt the big hitters launch, it was the newbie.

    Sounds like you may know who he is talking about and trying to defend them
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    • Profile picture of the author Patrick
      Originally Posted by the_icon View Post

      Lol I dont think the OP will be wanting to work with them again anyway also it wasnt the big hitters launch, it was the newbie.

      Sounds like you may know who he is talking about and trying to defend them
      The funny thing is he is warning the OP to be careful lmfao
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      • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
        Originally Posted by schwarzes View Post

        The funny thing is he is warning the OP to be careful lmfao
        That kind of warning is like telling a shop owner to pay the protection money demanded of them and shut up about it; it's a favor to the mob, not it's victim. Fortunately, the imagined IM inner circle has no thugs to break the kneecaps of victims who speak up.

        If the worst that happens is they don't invite you to any more of their launches, then what is there to be afraid of? One thing that can never happen in this niche is that anyone will be stuck with nothing to promote, and the op seems to have the skills; I think he'll do fine regardless whether the criminals try to freeze him out, which sounds unlikely anyway, just on the basis of this uncontroversial rant.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rsberg
      Originally Posted by the_icon View Post

      Lol I dont think the OP will be wanting to work with them again anyway
      Exactly right!


      Originally Posted by the_icon View Post

      Sounds like you may know who he is talking about and trying to defend them
      Was thinking the same thing myself.
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    Sounds like they "groomed" a few marketers they could fleece. With out knowing how much money the 'flop' produced, it sounds like you still did free marketing for them.
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    • Profile picture of the author BillyPilgrim
      Edmund Burke said it best:
      "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

      All this shrugging off is disturbing. It is for a weaker sort than me. At the end of the day, you did the right thing, pal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Greg guitar
    Originally Posted by drunkenmonkey View Post

    Bashing some big hitters launch on a open forum..that's probably your one and last invite your ever gonna get. Those guys all know each other like.

    That's a risky plot you got going on here right now. Never bash launches especially if your an aff.

    That guys next launch could do 7 figures and now your risking getting banned from promoting.

    Especially since your name is kind of public on here, he's going to know who you are.

    If he's on jvnp your totally screwed.
    I don't know if there is any truth to your speculation about the op being blacklisted or not, but I don't agree with your advice to avoid speaking one's mind when one is ripped off, for fear of being cast out of some imagined cool kids' club within the IM niche. The niche is too big to be controlled that way anyway.

    Your speculation certainly isn't flattering to whatever big names you have in mind. One would hope that legitimate successful Warriors would be as anxious to put ripoff artists out of business as their victims.

    If suffering in silence is a prerequisite to be part of some secret club of big list owners, better to go for another niche, or a different segment of this one, than try to get along when it means helping to cover the tracks of scam artists. I say speak your mind and let the chips fall where they may; live true to yourself, not sucking up to anyone.

    PS: besides all that, the op never mentioned any identifying details. As far as I can tell he violated no rule, and was calm and rational with his rant. It would be a red flag against getting involved with any marketer who felt threatened by what he posted. Being blacklisted by such marketers might be a good thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rsberg
    ***UPDATE***

    Interestingly enough I woke up to a PM by the well known vendor stating that I had been paid and apologizing for the "confusion" between him and his up and comer partner on the launch.

    The thing I find funny is the so called “confusion”…

    I saw the Skype conversation between the two of them, there was no confusion at all…

    When you say you don’t pay affiliate bonuses on failed launches it seems pretty straight forward to me.

    It’s amazing what one PM and an almost tell all thread will do huh

    Anyway, I hope this is a lesson for everyone out there (both vendors and affiliates)… if you’ve been cheated and it’s obvious it’s not a mistake or “misunderstanding” then you need to approach the individual involved. Sitting back and doing nothing accomplishes exactly that…nothing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Take the money - be the bigger man - and let them have their illusion of confusion.:p
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      Do clouds ever look down on us and say 'that one is shaped like an idiot'?
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