I am not talking about a tax return, I am talking about a specific document showing income from a specific payment processor such as PP and it breaks it down by month right on the document.

A tax return includes all of your income, this document only includes payments from that particular processor.

So, if you claim to have made 55K on a launch in say December of 2012 and you used PP for that launch, this document would show that you in fact did make that much and if you forged it and get caught you will go to jail. It is a lot different than showing an image and carefully chosen screenshots, you aren't forging an actual legal document

The reason so many post the stupid things is because all the idiots come out and demand 'proof'. You would think that most people would be smart enough to realize that it's not any kind of proof, since they can be faked so easily, but apparently there are a lot of naive or stupid people around.

How is that any better proof? I could make a million dollars and show you a 1099 to back it up - but that doesn't tell you HOW I actually made the money. I could have only made $10 with the method I'm teaching and you wouldn't know the difference from an overall amount like that.

Forging a government document may be illegal but forging an image of such a document is not. Big difference.

It would be better for the sellers to stop making outrageous income claims and for buyers to stop demanding proof and start using the brain cells they were born with.

Huge Point!!

If it doesn't matter than why include it as a part of the sales process, I think that is why I am asking?

Proof has been and always will be one of the most powerful forms of copy whether it be income proof, testimonials (which bring up a whole other discussion) and other items to back up your claims.

Very true, however it is nice to know the person you are dealing with has had success with what he/she is asking you to try.

In my spare time, which is not much, I teach young kids hitting lessons to better their baseball skills. I have way, way more kids wanting lessons than I could possibly ever get too.

Why? Because I was an All-American baseball player and still hold records at the school I went to in college.

Do I expect most or even anyone of these kids to duplicate that success? While I hope they do, I know probably none of them will.

Here's how I view the likelyhood of success if you powered through any one WSO.

1. No proof, no reviews. 30% chance.
2. No proof, reviews. 40% chance.
3. Proof, reviews. 55% chance.
4. Proof, claims of earnings (from buyers). 75% chance.
5. Proof, 5 or more claims of earnings (from buyers). 95% chance.

i don't believe any of the paypal or othres account are real , never.
Unfortunatly i see a lot of fake claim all day long.
WSO become hard to believe , just wait a few days after the launch and you start to see a lot of controversial post , compare to the beginning where all the promoters ( affiliate) they line up to praise the product .
It's a pity or it's a shame but anyway it's a jungle nowadayson the IM arena , cannot believe anyone no more ....that's the result , at least for me.:rolleyes:

And that is great, so the same applies, this isn't really about screenshots, it is about legitimate proof.

So, with paypal, you can log into your account for example and instead of using all the searches, etc. go right to the Legal/Tax documents and show your results based on those.

Yes and this brings up another point. I know a lot of people with great reputations on many forums and in many masterminds, etc. that can talk a big game but aren't making squat.

I know someone who for years has been one of the most well respected members of a real estate related forum, yet had never actually made any significant amount of money and for the most part was giving advice/opinions on things that he read about, heard about, etc. but never actually did.

When he would post ideas tons and tons of people would try them then come back with very dismal results or worse come back and say that they awesome ideas man, keep them up, without ever actually trying them, just because they wanted to be cool and associate with this guy on the forum and the cycle of bad information just kept spreading and spreading.

I doubt it.

Some people say it's possible to fake a live video walk through of a Clickbank, PayPal, Google Analytics, real bank account etc. I say that's 100% BS. Is it possible? Yes. Could someone realistically do it? No way.

I have seen people who pause their videos halfway through, then un-pause them on the page they want people to see ... that's an obvious scam. But I have never, ever seen or heard of a live, from-start-to-finish video walk through that has been altered, and I'd challenge you to show me an example to prove otherwise.

If you did the whole thing from start to finish without pausing, you would need some seriously expensive blackhat software to duplicate the site you're using and all its functions.

Either that or some kind of graphic artist / video guy / programmer who could change every single number frame by frame.

I just don't believe that anyone could or would realistically do that. The cost, effort and expense would be phenomenal.

Very nice post!

By being honest, for example I haven't done 2 million dollars yet, but of course if the price to get such a digit were scamming people by creating a stupid and useless product that teaches them NOTHING, I just prefer DO NOT taking their hardly earned money the bad way, and working hard on another one that makes happy my client, since clients worth more than money and long term business is the key

I'm with you there. I applaud the FTC for their efforts in weeding out claims without proof.

Kind of hard to argue with a 1099K along with a track record that you can easily find by doing a few Google searches though, wouldn't you say? or not?

I mean at a very minimum if you did a product launch in March 2012 you should be able to show at least your 1099K for March 2012 and a video logging in showing the sales. That would make an income claim pretty legitimate to me on a high profile launch.

If you can only show total sales and not actual income, you may be a good networker, you may have a bunch of friends who will promote for you, you may be popular, but you still didn't make any money or at least the money you claimed.

If you have multiple income streams as mentioned above as a way around this in that payment processor then the 1099K will show a higher amount than the amount you are claiming and adds even more legitimacy to you and your launch.

That is, if you are going to use income claims at all.

Imagine if this were required on any launch that makes an income claim, would that change anything?

Corey, would love to see the tutorial.

Also, have you seen any actual 1099K's or legal government documents faked as a part of a launch or sales process that you know of?

I know it is easy to fake screenshots/videos and even easier to use these to mislead, but I am curious if you have seen it done on any 1099K or legal government document.

Yes, I definitely mis-stated that, you of course have the right to due process.

This really wasn't meant to be a legal discussion at all, I was just curious why if everyone is making income claims using all these screenshots, etc. why not make them using the real documents? That is the question I can't seem to find.

Yes, Bill, I agree.

Question....If given all the same factors, everything is exactly the same in the copy but one makes a claim that the author made say 15K using the system

and the other had no income claims, which do you think would have a higher response rate?

Yep, sometimes it can have a negative effect. Last year I posted a screenshot of a million dollar bank account in a sales video and it didn't convert well. People have to envision themselves succeeding with your product. If they can't see themselves doing what you did, it doesn't matter how much you made.

This is going to sound harsh, but you really have no idea what you're talking about.

First, just because they sell a product containing a method or system, doesn't mean that they aren't still making money with that system. What is wrong with making even more money by teaching others how to do it, as well? Any good system will be duplicatable and shouldn't interfere with the originator continuing to use it.

The only time this wouldn't be the case is with people selling 'loophole' products. That is a stupid move since as soon as word gets out on a loophole, they usually get closed down.

Second point you make is that it's not charity if it's not free. When someone says they want to give something back, what rule is there that says they must do so without charging? I find the only people who ever say this are those who aren't making enough money themselves.

That attitude is the same one that makes some people bash rich people - it's called sour grapes.

And third, you say you'd value something just as much if given it free of charge. That might be true for you (although it's doubtful), but it's been proven over and over again that it is simply not true for the majority.

How many free reports or products have you downloaded and then never read or acted on? For the majority of people, it's a lot. Heck, most people have PAID products sitting on their hard drive that they've never even opened.

Proof of this last principle of human nature surrounds you. How many people on this forum are not making any money or not enough to actually mean anything? Why?

There is enough information on this forum for just about any online business model, that anyone who wished to do so, could build an online business and make money. I'm talking free information, not WSOs.

The only problem is that people are sitting around, waiting for a push-button solution so they don't actually have to think or do anything for themselves. Push the button; cash falls out of the PC.

Not one forum member has any excuses when it comes to knowing what to do. It's all laid out for you - years and years worth of tips, tricks and methods. You have to look for it and put it together, but it's there.

Attitude is a big part of success. I guarantee your attitude is holding you back from achieving the level of success that you could attain.