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When to cut ties to a loser

by Tom B Banned
23 replies
There was a good thread that disappeared that I wanted to continue having a conversation about.

The premise is when do you decide a project is a loser and move on.

For me, I have a plan put together. With that plan, I am able to measure what is working and what isn't working. I wouldn't be able to really get far without having an actionable plan in place.

Now, cutting a project off too fast could be a bad thing. I have been working on the same project for over 6 years now. If I didn't have a measurable plan in place, I would have cut it a long time ago. That would have been really bad.

Now the question for you, how do you decide a project is a loser or something you continue with?
#cut #loser #ties
  • Profile picture of the author Tom B
    Banned
    Originally Posted by napoleonfirst View Post

    If the project is way below the income I expect, I consider it a loser.
    Does it have to produce a certain amount of money fast or do you have other time constraints?
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  • Profile picture of the author robestrong
    This is an excellent thread. Knowing when to quit is rather important.

    1. I try to set projects that I know will be possible and will be successful. I take into account social proof (if it's based on a WSO), and my own skill level and relative experience with related projects even before I begin.

    2. If I find myself repeatedly putting it off, it means one of two things. Either I'm just slacking, in which case I apply myself and push myself through it, or I keep trying at the same thing without success, in which case it's probably not possible.

    Putting things off/doggedly working on them is my biggest indicator that I have to let something go, and it can go on for a long time before I realize that it definitively can't be done.

    The worst thing that can happen is to be working on an unfeasible project with someone else who can't understand that it's just not possible. Been there done that.

    3. When I notice that 5 or more times of trying something, I keep ending up with less money than when I started, I cut it free. Some people may be able to leverage it properly, if I repeatedly (not just 2 or 3 times, but at least 5 times), fail to turn a profit, then it's probably not going to work out and isn't worth my time.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Originally Posted by robestrong View Post

      This is an excellent thread. Knowing when to quit is rather important.

      1. I try to set projects that I know will be possible and will be successful. I take into account social proof (if it's based on a WSO), and my own skill level and relative experience with related projects even before I begin.

      2. If I find myself repeatedly putting it off, it means one of two things. Either I'm just slacking, in which case I apply myself and push myself through it, or I keep trying at the same thing without success, in which case it's probably not possible.

      Putting things off/doggedly working on them is my biggest indicator that I have to let something go, and it can go on for a long time before I realize that it definitively can't be done.

      The worst thing that can happen is to be working on an unfeasible project with someone else who can't understand that it's just not possible. Been there done that.

      3. When I notice that 5 or more times of trying something, I keep ending up with less money than when I started, I cut it free. Some people may be able to leverage it properly, if I repeatedly (not just 2 or 3 times, but at least 5 times), fail to turn a profit, then it's probably not going to work out and isn't worth my time.
      Cool! It sounds like you base it on actually completing the project and if it is taking time from other lucrative things.

      How do you decide which is more lucrative long term?
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    • Profile picture of the author ronr
      It is a fine between staying the course and going on to the next thing. You don't want to jump from thing to thing but you also don't want to stick with a loser.

      Sometimes when something isn't working I'll move on but not completely abandon the first idea. Often while I'm doing something else I'll come across new tweak or something else that could turn the first idea into a winner. It doesn't always happen but it's happened more than once for me.

      Ron
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
        Banned
        Originally Posted by ronr View Post

        It is a fine between staying the course and going on to the next thing. You don't want to jump from thing to thing but you also don't want to stick with a loser.

        Sometimes when something isn't working I'll move on but not completely abandon the first idea. Often while I'm doing something else I'll come across new tweak or something else that could turn the first idea into a winner. It doesn't always happen but it's happened more than once for me.

        Ron
        A very fine line. That is why it has been essential, for me, to have a plan in place.

        Like I said before, I have been working on the same project for about 6 years now. I have had success with it but also understand I can take it on to a whole new level.

        Once I get it to that level, I have plans in place to continue for the next 5 years.

        Now if I didn't see some success early on, I would have stopped. Heck, maybe some people would have stopped based on the early success I saw. For me, I had a vision and it has become a reality. I just needed to tweak here and there and stay the course.
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
    Thomas,

    I normally get rid of a project if it starts to stink :-)

    All joking aside, everything I do anymore is list based. I have found if I can get a targeted list member signed up, the majority of the time I can sell them.

    The promotions I use to get these targets on the list need to produce a certain amount of list members for me to continue to use them. The first thing I do is tweak an already proven squeeze to make sure the traffic is just not rejecting the landing.

    If I tweak several times and can't see results I cull the traffic source.

    The traffic may be great traffic but just not traffic I can convert. I used to think if a squeeze page worked for one traffic source it would work for them all but it doesn't. At the same time I can't take time to work a new source forever.

    Usually I will try 3 or 4 versions of a lander that worked well on most traffic sources I use. If I can't get them to convert I will try a completely different approach. At that point, if I can't convert, I decide to pour more effort into the sources I know are working for me and forget the new source.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Troy_Phillips View Post

      Thomas,

      I normally get rid of a project if it starts to stink :-)

      All joking aside, everything I do anymore is list based. I have found if I can get a targeted list member signed up, the majority of the time I can sell them.

      The promotions I use to get these targets on the list need to produce a certain amount of list members for me to continue to use them. The first thing I do is tweak an already proven squeeze to make sure the traffic is just not rejecting the landing.

      If I tweak several times and can't see results I cull the traffic source.

      The traffic may be great traffic but just not traffic I can convert. I used to think if a squeeze page worked for one traffic source it would work for them all but it doesn't. At the same time I can't take time to work a new source forever.

      Usually I will try 3 or 4 versions of a lander that worked well on most traffic sources I use. If I can't get them to convert I will try a completely different approach. At that point, if I can't convert, I decide to pour more effort into the sources I know are working for me and forget the new source.
      Yeah, I was tempted to use corpse in the title. haha

      Ah, great post Troy. Especially since you brought up something that may take more time to ascertain if it is a winner or loser.

      Lot's of different variables from traffic, squeeze pages, to offers, follow ups to tweak.

      I am assuming you try to monetize the list by sending offers.

      How long do you continue to work the list before deciding it isn't a good traffic source or bad niche for offers?
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      • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
        Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post


        How long do you continue to work the list before deciding it isn't a good traffic source or bad niche for offers?
        Like you said .. there are a lot of variables to work.

        You first need to make sure the funnel is converting. This takes a lot longer than many wanting to sell the new list building WSO wants to admit. At least it does for me.

        I try to send at least 2500 people through a funnel as I tweak it. By then I usually have it as optimized as I can get it. I may go back and work it some more in the future but usually It is what it is at 2500.

        During this testing period you do get to test several squeezes and traffic sources along the way. Still, if I have run 2500 people through and not converting at least 33% of the traffic to list members and 7% of those to buyers, I will send those 2500 list members to a relative offer in a funnel I know converts and start a new funnel.
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        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Troy_Phillips View Post

          Like you said .. there are a lot of variables to work.

          You first need to make sure the funnel is converting. This takes a lot longer than many wanting to sell the new list building WSO wants to admit. At least it does for me.

          I try to send at least 2500 people through a funnel as I tweak it. By then I usually have it as optimized as I can get it. I may go back and work it some more in the future but usually It is what it is at 2500.

          During this testing period you do get to test several squeezes and traffic sources along the way. Still, if I have run 2500 people through and not converting at least 33% of the traffic to list members and 7% of those to buyers, I will send those 2500 list members to a relative offer in a funnel I know converts and start a new funnel.
          Nice, some real numbers and hopefully new people can start to see how they can figure out what is working and what isn't.

          I found keeping the sales funnel as simple as possible when beginning works out great. I will slowly expand it afterwards.
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          • Profile picture of the author Tom B
            Banned
            Ok, here is a reason why I stopped one particular project.

            It was a real estate program. A great one and people loved it. So why did I stop working it?

            Purely long term potential.

            I didn't have anything else to sell to those real estate investors. You are pretty much giving yourself a raise by having multiple products that can be sold to your existing customers.

            I already had multiple products to sell to my main market. In fact, I can't stop coming up with ideas for more and more products for that main market.

            I really believe you should exploit your main market before hitting up another market. You will get bigger faster through leverage and synergy.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steve B
          Thomas,

          Not sure why my thread was deleted but oh well . . .

          Thank you for keeping the topic alive because so many IMers don't realize that they could have thriving businesses if they would only dump their pet projects that aren't working and move on to something that makes money.

          Evidence?
          1. So many people promoting the same products. There are not enough customers to go around.
          2. Stale and tired old ebooks that continue to show up on people's sites as products, freebies, and give-aways.
          3. Products that really don't work and methods that were out-of-date long ago that continue to be pushed.
          4. Clone sites where the owner broadcasts to the world that he is simply a copycat, or worse, a thief.
          5. Auto-blog type sites where they try to "set it and forget it." One of the curses of the Internet that screams "I'm too lazy to be creative."
          I'm sure there are other things I could say, but my original point was to have IMers take a look at what they are doing right now . . . and dump it if it isn't making them money.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author robestrong
            I don't particularly care about which project is more lucrative. Basically as long as they're making a decent amount of $$ (generally about $100/month or more), without a lot of extra work, I keep them running. Otherwise I kill them off.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
    Back when I was first starting, I used to waste a lot of time making $10/day adsense sites when I was neglecting projects on my primary money-making sites.

    Now, I just ask myself "Does the upside of this project outweigh the upside of not doing something on the to-do list?" and I can usually figure out the answer.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Ryan David View Post

      Back when I was first starting, I used to waste a lot of time making $10/day adsense sites when I was neglecting projects on my primary money-making sites.

      Now, I just ask myself "Does the upside of this project outweigh the upside of not doing something on the to-do list?" and I can usually figure out the answer.
      Ah, focus is important. I think I started a thread about that before. Yeah, you need to keep your eye on the ball. Something that can be very hard when you work a project for a long time. I definitely understand that!
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  • Profile picture of the author butters
    Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post


    For me, I have a plan put together. With that plan, I am able to measure what is working and what isn't working. I wouldn't be able to really get far without having an actionable plan in place.
    You already said my answer, if the plan originally designed fails and no further improvements are able to be made to make it into a success then the project would be scrapped. Generally it comes down to time, if to much time is being sucked away from me from a failing plan, then it would be scrapped and move on.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Originally Posted by butters View Post

      You already said my answer, if the plan originally designed fails and no further improvements are able to be made to make it into a success then the project would be scrapped. Generally it comes down to time, if to much time is being sucked away from me from a failing plan, then it would be scrapped and move on.
      You are way ahead of a lot of people on this forum. Keep up the good work.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    6 years. That's perseverance. I have a project that's about 3-4 months old that's starting to annoy me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      6 years. That's perseverance. I have a project that's about 3-4 months old that's starting to annoy me.
      You know I am stubborn. haha

      I never said I wasn't annoyed. I never said I didn't cry myself to sleep at night. haha

      Amazon is a great role model. They continued working their plan for years. Heck, they took a lost for many years because they were more interested in fast growth knowing the barriers of entry was very low.

      For me, I can see how this project will set the tone for many others. I just didn't have the investors to back me up like Amazon did.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

    There was a good thread that disappeared that I wanted to continue having a conversation about.
    I agree wholeheartedly, but I suppose someone didn't like the underlying analogy of burying their dead. It's a stinky subject.

    It really is an important topic because most of us have pet projects that we just can't bring ourselves to dump even though they don't add anything to the bottom line of our business. Even worse, often they cost us valuable time and money where a different approach may be less expensive.

    For me, the test is this. Analyze your business and ask yourself . . .

    • Could I be making more money with a different (product/strategy/model)?
    • Is there an easier or better way to accomplish the same task?
    • Are there similar ways to get the same results in less time?
    • Is there new technology or knowledge in my field that I haven't adopted yet?
    • Would my time be better spent investing in a new product than in promoting an old one?

    It's up to us as business owners to "work on our business" and shed the things that keep us from being as productive as we could otherwise be.

    Good luck,

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

      I agree wholeheartedly, but I suppose someone didn't like the underlying analogy of burying their dead. It's a stinky subject.


      Good luck,

      Steve
      Yeah, but burying them can produce great tomatoes. hehe

      Great post, Steve. I was hoping you would chime in again.
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  • Profile picture of the author ExpertSEOServices
    If I am launching a new product/project on the Warrior Forum I stop bumping my thread when I don't make back my investment on the bump thats normally the sign for me that its no longer profitable and time to move onto a new project.

    Its always a good place to test the waters to see if a product works well and how much response/reviews/interest you get on it here on the WF before moving it onto bigger sites such as CB and RAP Bank
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    • Profile picture of the author butters
      Originally Posted by ExpertSEOServices View Post

      If I am launching a new product/project on the Warrior Forum I stop bumping my thread when I don't make back my investment on the bump thats normally the sign for me that its no longer profitable and time to move onto a new project.
      I would be careful here to use that as a measure of success or failure, you are throwing all your eggs into a bump or two. This isn't an indication that the product is a "failure" it is an indication that you need to start testing your titles, sales copy and the funnel set up afterwards. You could of potentially threw away a good product on a $40 bump when quite honestly there could of been 100 other things wrong with the product before the customer has already seen it. Just thought I would mention that .
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        On a related note, one has to be vigilant for that nefarious 'point of diminishing returns', especially hard-core testers.

        At what point is squeezing that extra tenth of a percent out of your squeeze page more effort than it's worth? When is 'good enough' good enough?

        Maybe spending that time/effort/cash would be better served testing the offer in your email sequence, or the copy on your checkout page, or the conversions on your OTO/upsell.
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