Is Clickbank REALLY RIPPING Us Off? I did Some Testing. Surprise!

81 replies
Well, i must admit. As a major promoter of clickbank products (almost all my income comes through them) I have been a little worried with all the rumors about crazy wild swings in days.

First. I am not saying clickbank is ripping us off. This was just an experiment i did after hitting a few days of zeros when it appears i shouldnt be. I noticed other people having results making new accounts so i did it. Take it how you wish.

I have also had it happen a few times where I would go 2 or 3 days with ZERO sales even though hops have stayed the same or even gone up!

So its happened again and decided to test out everyones theory about opening a new account. Yesterday I had a day with zero sales. Then mid afternoon i logged on to see another zero dollar day. So i decided to open another account and see what happened. As you can see i opened an account with the exact same name just changed the number at the end from 1 to 2.



Well as you can see from the screenshot I havent even had hops going to the new account for a full day (i started sending all my traffic mid afternoon) and already at 76 bucks. Does that mean anything? Who knows. I have no idea. I guess it is a little strange though. Im not accusing clickbank of anything and it may be just a coincidence but it sure is a little strange especially with everyone else saying the same thing. im just surprised nobody else took some proof shots sooner to help us all out.

Try it out if you're hitting those zero dollar days. By the way hops never went down. Actually yesterday i had a record hops and no sales!
#clickbank #fake screenshots #ripping #surprise
  • Profile picture of the author Trixxie12
    im hitting 0 dollars anyway
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  • Profile picture of the author Planetman
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
      I tried doing this experiment too, but, almost one month into it and no sales on the new account. None on the first account either, so I can't draw any conclusions, besides the fact that neither one appears to be converting.

      I have noticed that tracking IDs get lost. On my first account, nearly half of my hops show up without a tracking ID. Every link that I know of that I have, I have used a tracking ID on it. But, it could be that I have some older links somewhere without a tracking ID. If so, I haven't found them yet.

      But, on the new account, I know that I have a tracking ID assigned to every link I am using for the new account. Yet, about 25% of my hops show up without a tracking ID.

      I know I posted about this last month, and someone had some good reasons why tracking IDs may be lost. Still, 25% is a large number (as is 50%), so it just leads me to wonder if tracking IDs get lost, what else might be getting lost? Maybe there is no connection but it's just one of those things that leads you to wonder.
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  • Profile picture of the author sourcecode
    Hmmm....

    I heard its good practice to have more than one account with clickbank so you have a new hoplink all the time for every product. But I dont know....

    I'm going to be pissed though when I finally get Adwords figured out and PPC, then have clickbank screw me lol...

    I better test too..........

    Anyone else have clickbank issues? And what other affiliate sites are trustworthy?
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  • Profile picture of the author trippmarxx
    Here's something interesting for you....

    Last week, I had the worst Clickbank slump ever. I mean, I've had zero dollar days here and there, and even had a few days that had zeros in the past, but never as bad as last week.....

    I went a full 8 days with NO sales. Zip. Nada. Zilch. Absolutely nothing.

    And, not only did I send hops through as normal - I had days that I sent more hops than ever before!

    In the past, I would send an e-mail to customer support, telling them to verify my links were in good working order. I usually got a canned response (as always).

    Well, I did the same thing on the 8th day that I had no sales. Guess what happened the next day? Over $100+ in sales as I usally do, and more sales today....

    Everytime I send them an e-mail when I run into a "slump", I send them an e-mail, then out of nowhere, sales return to normal within the next day.

    Coincidence? I don't know, but it sure as hell is a bit fishy. Their tracking system is garbage and ancient, that's for sure.

    I just get tired of their B/S responses, coming up with every excuse in the book as to why sales aren't coming through. I'm not an idiot, and I know and understand that there are many things that factor into sales, hence why sales flucuate.

    But, there needs to be an explanation when the traffic is present, and no sales are coming through for over a week, especially when you're like me and experience consistent sales on a daily bases. The B/S responses I get aren't good enough.

    More so lately, I've stuck to either creating my own products and sell them via PayPal, or I promote products that use the RAP or $7 script and payout instant PayPal commissions. Seems to be more worth my time.

    I'm considering creating and launching a product on Clickbank, just to test out things from the Vendor point of view, because it seems a lot of affiliates are getting screwed lately, while the Vendors don't notice much.
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      Does PaydotCom have these tracking issues?
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    • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
      Originally Posted by trippmarxx View Post

      Here's something interesting for you....

      Last week, I had the worst Clickbank slump ever. I mean, I've had zero dollar days here and there, and even had a few days that had zeros in the past, but never as bad as last week.....

      I went a full 8 days with NO sales. Zip. Nada. Zilch. Absolutely nothing.

      And, not only did I send hops through as normal - I had days that I sent more hops than ever before!

      In the past, I would send an e-mail to customer support, telling them to verify my links were in good working order. I usually got a canned response (as always).

      Well, I did the same thing on the 8th day that I had no sales. Guess what happened the next day? Over $100+ in sales as I usally do, and more sales today....

      Everytime I send them an e-mail when I run into a "slump", I send them an e-mail, then out of nowhere, sales return to normal within the next day.

      Coincidence? I don't know, but it sure as hell is a bit fishy. Their tracking system is garbage and ancient, that's for sure.

      I just get tired of their B/S responses, coming up with every excuse in the book as to why sales aren't coming through. I'm not an idiot, and I know and understand that there are many things that factor into sales, hence why sales flucuate.

      But, there needs to be an explanation when the traffic is present, and no sales are coming through for over a week, especially when you're like me and experience consistent sales on a daily bases. The B/S responses I get aren't good enough.

      More so lately, I've stuck to either creating my own products and sell them via PayPal, or I promote products that use the RAP or $7 script and payout instant PayPal commissions. Seems to be more worth my time.

      I'm considering creating and launching a product on Clickbank, just to test out things from the Vendor point of view, because it seems a lot of affiliates are getting screwed lately, while the Vendors don't notice much.
      Here's the big question: How do you prove it's clickbank?

      How do you know it's not antivirus software, antispyware software, a firewall, browser setting, or anonymous proxies blocking the cookies?

      Here's an even bigger question: Even if you prove it is clickbank, how do you fix it (assuming it's not an anti fraud gateway going absolutely nuts)? Can it even be fixed?

      Answer the first one, and maybe you have a lawsuit. Answer the second one, and you will be the next multibillionaire.

      How about it?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Brian
    I could somewhat understand the zero sales (some due to anti-spyware programs installed by users blocking clickbank cookie) but your screenshot of a sale without a hop, now that's something.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jakehyten
      Originally Posted by Mark Brian View Post

      I could somewhat understand the zero sales (some due to anti-spyware programs installed by users blocking clickbank cookie) but your screenshot of a sale without a hop, now that's something.
      no, lemme clarify. i had hops goin to that new account. all the hops that were goin to my original account i sent to the new account. and got some sales.
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      • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
        Originally Posted by Jakehyten View Post

        no, lemme clarify. i had hops goin to that new account. all the hops that were goin to my original account i sent to the new account. and got some sales.
        So you are saying that the graphic on the left represents 10 days when
        you sent NO traffic to that account ?

        Harvey



        .
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    • Profile picture of the author activetrader
      Originally Posted by Mark Brian View Post

      I could somewhat understand the zero sales (some due to anti-spyware programs installed by users blocking clickbank cookie) but your screenshot of a sale without a hop, now that's something.
      Why does it surprise you? No hop but a sale means that customer clicked through your link some days ago, got his computer cookied, came back a few days later, bought the product; affiliate got commission.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dellco
        This is graphic proof that something is not right with Clickbank....But will those guys do anything about it?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jakehyten
    from what i hear no. But who cares? paydotcom isnt really all that good.
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  • Profile picture of the author freudianslip27
    This is really concerning. It is just so hard to know what's going on these days. On one hand the economy has us thinking that people are "buying less", and then you see a thread like this one.

    I have done a lot of promotion for clickbank, I really hope they aren't ripping me off

    Matt
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  • Profile picture of the author sashagilberg
    that does look interesting, but it's no where near enough info to make an accurate judgment. Had you been making $500/day+ consistently and had that drop down to $0, then there's definitely something fishy going on.

    Secondly, you're getting decent sales of ~$150/day already, but my question is: did you have many $0/days before this?

    I think the Easter holidays could account for the drop in sales
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by alexgilberg View Post

      that does look interesting, but it's no where near enough info to make an accurate judgment. Had you been making $500/day+ consistently and had that drop down to $0, then there's definitely something fishy going on.

      Secondly, you're getting decent sales of ~$150/day already, but my question is: did you have many $0/days before this?

      I think the Easter holidays could account for the drop in sales
      This is correct. However, it should also be noted that one should expect a few days OVER the average/mean. This would be normal fluctuations.

      However, having fluctuations that are ALWAYS UNDER the mean should raise suspicion. And there are a lot more biases to explain being under: Tech glitches and dishonestly being two big ones.

      Some have said "it's the cookie", however this should also mean you should be "over" once in a while, as well as under, and should even out over time.

      Again, if one averages 5 sales a day for a period of time, then has a day with zero sales, that doesn't mean a lot, unless they are NEVER countered with days of 10 sales. Normal fluctuations says you should also be "over/higher" too.

      I use the term "average" when a "mean" would likely be more accurate.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jakehyten
      Originally Posted by alexgilberg View Post

      that does look interesting, but it's no where near enough info to make an accurate judgment. Had you been making $500/day+ consistently and had that drop down to $0, then there's definitely something fishy going on.

      Secondly, you're getting decent sales of ~$150/day already, but my question is: did you have many $0/days before this?

      I think the Easter holidays could account for the drop in sales
      I dont think ive ever been under $50 days in the last 5-6 months. What always happens is i all of a sudden drop to ZERO sales for 2 to 3 days in a row. And always to zero. not to 26 or 38 or 52. it just goes straight to zero. then all of a sudden it jumps back up to 100-200 days again.

      so its not easter holiday
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    • Profile picture of the author mdunn123
      Originally Posted by alexgilberg View Post

      that does look interesting, but it's no where near enough info to make an accurate judgment. Had you been making $500/day+ consistently and had that drop down to $0, then there's definitely something fishy going on.

      Secondly, you're getting decent sales of ~$150/day already, but my question is: did you have many $0/days before this?

      I think the Easter holidays could account for the drop in sales
      Totally depends on the market youre in. I had my highest sales today in two weeks today thanks to Easter...and no it wasn't in the Easter goodies market or anything close. Time at home and holidays are sometimes great for sales.

      I'm going to keep track of everything here on my end as well. My sales avg out to about $450 on a daily basis, and just about all my traffic is PPC. I Have ALL the numbers that can tell me if something is wrong or not. If something starts messing up, I'll first open up a new account...then I'll post as much proof as I possibly can everywhere I can

      I HATE the thought that they might be doing this, and I think the time might be coming up for a press release on this issue. If they got a little bit of media attention and the proper heat from the proper areas....they have to change something.

      Honestly at this point, I think that saying they're stealing money from affiliates is a long stretch. Yes, something is going on it seems, but to knock away at their own foundation seems unlikely at best. I do however think that there are major problems with their tracking issues and systems. As already mentioned they are way old and really need to be changed and updated.

      Again...Enough heat from the right areas, a bit of media attention, and something will have to change.
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      • Profile picture of the author tessmac9708
        Back in 2003, one of our sites which was doing serious business ( not clickbank related I might add ) was really down for about 1 week. I had one of my main competitors ring me asking if we were very slow or was it just him.

        It turns out that there was a new kid on the block advertising widely who was vitually giving the stuff away. Neither of us had spotted this, so while the traffic was constant we were converting less.

        Sometimes there is a reason you dont always spot.

        Just a thought.

        Graham
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        • Profile picture of the author Hamida Harland
          Does it not seem a little fishy that some of the bars for the smaller numbers are longer than the bars for the bigger numbers? Doesn't happen like that in my Clickbank accounts. It's not really a fair test if the numbers have been 'doctored'.
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          • Profile picture of the author Trader54
            Originally Posted by Hamida Harland View Post

            Does it not seem a little fishy that some of the bars for the smaller numbers are longer than the bars for the bigger numbers? Doesn't happen like that in my Clickbank accounts. It's not really a fair test if the numbers have been 'doctored'.
            Not only are they ripping people off they are now screwing with the bars.

            This way when you honestly use them to prove something like the poster did he gets discredited.

            LOL. They seem to be one step ahead of us.
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  • Profile picture of the author AnarchyAds
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    • Profile picture of the author sashagilberg
      Originally Posted by AnarchyAds View Post

      It is also clear that the poster directly above has never earned a clickbank check
      or that his could be bigger.
      what do you mean by this?

      and FYI, I've been getting paid by CB week in week out for over a year now.
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  • Profile picture of the author askloz
    best person to ask is Clickbank themselves and ask why the odd differences that makes no logical sense!

    Originally Posted by Jakehyten View Post

    Well, i must admit. As a major promoter of clickbank products (almost all my income comes through them) I have been a little worried with all the rumors about crazy wild swings in days.
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  • Profile picture of the author anton343
    I made my first internet sale ever with a clickbank product on the 28th Jan. sales continued to come in for a few weeks then nothing then a couple more sales then nothing until this week then 2 sales.

    I thought it must be the products I was promoting as clickthroughs continued so searched for other products.

    This week I promoted a windplans product using a brandable ebook in the last 4 days it has had over 730 clickthroughs but not one sale. Yet 2 sales have come with products with less than a dozen clickthroughs each

    Still can't work out what gets the sale, I know my traffic is targeted so I guess its just a numbers game.

    If the products I promote really converted at the 3% most of them claim i would be a happy man.
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  • Profile picture of the author Charlie Parker
    Surely I'm not the only one who recognizes the obvious discrepancies in that screenshot on the right??

    Look at the size of the bars and the amounts they are supposed to represent.

    So whats up with that?
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    • Profile picture of the author Dellco
      Screenshot or no screenshot, I'm convinced CB has an issue, and I'm going to do some testing of my own...
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    • Profile picture of the author sashagilberg
      Originally Posted by Charlie Parker View Post

      Surely I'm not the only one who recognizes the obvious discrepancies in that screenshot on the right??

      Look at the size of the bars and the amounts they are supposed to represent.

      So whats up with that?
      omg I can't believe I didn't notice that earlier, that's soooooo obvious lol. Not that it's relevant to the tracking issue with CB, but how do you explain that Jakehyten?
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  • Profile picture of the author Charlie Parker
    For what its worth I did some testing myself after a slow period. Results inconclusive.

    But that original screenshot can't be relied upon for a second because its been doctored for some strange reason.
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    • Profile picture of the author T.I.M.
      It does make me wonder.... but wouldn't clickbank be less sloppy in covering their shaving conversions?

      But I guess if you're top in the game you can make your own rules...
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  • Profile picture of the author Biggy Fat
    I wonder if anyone has ever thought that you just aren't getting any sales. No ripping off or anything, just that you're not getting conversions.
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  • Profile picture of the author mdunn123
    Originally Posted by Jakehyten View Post

    Well, i must admit. As a major promoter of clickbank products (almost all my income comes through them) I have been a little worried with all the rumors about crazy wild swings in days.

    First. I am not saying clickbank is ripping us off. This was just an experiment i did after hitting a few days of zeros when it appears i shouldnt be. I noticed other people having results making new accounts so i did it. Take it how you wish.

    I have also had it happen a few times where I would go 2 or 3 days with ZERO sales even though hops have stayed the same or even gone up!

    So its happened again and decided to test out everyones theory about opening a new account. Yesterday I had a day with zero sales. Then mid afternoon i logged on to see another zero dollar day. So i decided to open another account and see what happened. As you can see i opened an account with the exact same name just changed the number at the end from 1 to 2.



    Well as you can see from the screenshot I havent even had hops going to the new account for a full day (i started sending all my traffic mid afternoon) and already at 76 bucks. Does that mean anything? Who knows. I have no idea. I guess it is a little strange though. Im not accusing clickbank of anything and it may be just a coincidence but it sure is a little strange especially with everyone else saying the same thing. im just surprised nobody else took some proof shots sooner to help us all out.

    Try it out if you're hitting those zero dollar days. By the way hops never went down. Actually yesterday i had a record hops and no sales!

    Um.....look at the numbers and the bars from the first three numbers after the zeros at the top.....

    I'm a little perplexed here...
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    LMAO.. the bar for $128.72 is longer than the bar for $155.02

    And

    The bar for $140.48 is longer than the bar for $169.38

    FFS.... what is the purpose?

    Classic... doctoring a CB screenshot before you're even trying to sell something... haha
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  • Profile picture of the author pearsonbrown
    I think any Warrior who posts bogus figures here should be banned.

    What would be good would be for various Warriors to combine together their actual figures. Most people do not provide sample sizes which are statistically significant. By pooling together the results of, say, 100 Warriors, we could have a much more informed debate of what, if anything, is going on.

    Pearson
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  • Profile picture of the author TylerF
    I've been getting lots of hops from affiliates ever since i launched my product 2 months ago and so far there's only been 1 sale. that's like less than 0.5%.

    Well... maybe it's the problem of the salespage.. But the conversion rate is too fkin low..
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  • Profile picture of the author Mickm
    One of my products received almost 20,000 uniques over 2 days.. not a single sale according to clickbank, yet there's non affiliate reviews out there.. strange since I wasn't selling the product through anyone else other than clickbank.

    I've stopped using them now.
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    • Profile picture of the author o_brient
      Originally Posted by Mickm View Post

      One of my products received almost 20,000 uniques over 2 days.. not a single sale according to clickbank, yet there's non affiliate reviews out there.. strange since I wasn't selling the product through anyone else other than clickbank.

      I've stopped using them now.
      First up, not sure what's happening with the screenshots on this thread, will be good to see an explanation from the original poster.

      Second, AnarchyAds post re tracking CB sales with affiliates too is a useful technique - nice one.

      Third, Mickm - when you say 20,000 uniques and not a single sale - does this mean no registered sales on behalf of affiliates or just zero sales made by you as a vendor over the 2 day period? If you had a decent conversion rate on the product and it went down to zero over 2 days then of course CB payment processing is at fault (unless they processed payments without notifications - I guess you might have been able to tell with the number of downloads on the ThankYou page during the 2 day period)

      One things for sure, there's a lot of FUD going on around ClickBank at the moment on various threads and you would think they might want to engage to help put out some of the fires before their SNAFU becomes FUBAR (wonder if FUD, SNAFU and FUBAR have been used twice in the same paragraph before ;-)

      All the best,
      Tom
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      • Profile picture of the author Midas3 Consulting
        That thing looks to have been doctored to hell, and you don't win any prizes for effort either. Frankly you should be hung drawn and quartered. I'm at a loss to see what you're trying to achieve here.

        Initially I wondered if I had never noticed it before and it was some side effect of re-bills, but I've just logged into 2 of my CB accounts , one that has rebills and one which does not and under no cirumstances does that happen whereby the bars are not congruent with the sales figures, even if they are rebills.

        See attached:

        Clickbank has in my opinion some serious issues and your going to end up undermining those issues by providing what appear to be falsified documents which devalue the entire argument.
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  • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
    what an idiot!!!!!

    Is there a point to making up these stats?
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  • Profile picture of the author mogili
    Does it imply that affiliates should look at sites other than clickbank? Any issues with Paydotcom too?
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Okay, I have a confession to make.

      The most sales I ever got in one day from any Clickbank product I ever
      promoted (not counting new product launches) was 4. Usually, I'll get just
      1 or 2 sales in a day. So if I get a day with no sales, I honestly can't make
      anything of it. Naturally, if you're averaging about 1.5 sales a day, you're
      going to have zero sale days.

      Having said that, I have had periods that looked like this.

      Day 15 - 2 sales
      Day 14 - 2 sales
      Day 13 - 3 sales
      Day 12 - 0 sales
      Day 11 - 0 sales
      Day 10 - 0 sales
      Day 9 - 0 sales
      Day 8 - 0 sales
      Day 7 - 0 sales
      Day 6 - 1 sale
      Day 5 - 2 sales
      Day 4 - 3 sales
      Day 3 - 2 sales
      Day 2 - 3 sales
      Day 1 - 3 sales

      Now, over that 15 day period, I made 21 sales, but look at the 7 days
      in that period with 0 sales.

      I never could understand this. It would happen all the time. The answer
      I'd get from Clickbank was that this was normal, that sales didn't happen
      on a consistent basis. Sometimes you'd have periods of no sales for a
      variety of reasons including time of year, holidays, or whatever.

      Not having any reason to suspect anything else, I accepted it.

      But the thing is, I'd never change my Clickbank account. This one account
      that has shown these fluctuations, I have for over 6 years now. Eventually,
      things would get back to normal.

      So while it seems odd that these people who switch over to a new account
      suddenly make sales, I wonder how many would have seen the sales come
      in had eventually had they not switched over?

      I don't have the answers to this. I do know this much.

      That same 6 year plus account, whenever I use it to promote a product
      launch that has an affiliate contest, the sales come in like somebody
      opened up a water faucet.

      If there really was a problem with old accounts, wouldn't I not be credited
      with any sales?
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  • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
    Originally Posted by Jakehyten View Post

    im just surprised nobody else took some proof shots sooner to help us all out.
    It's probably because everyone realizes how easily such things can be doctored, so screenshots aren't really proof of anything.

    I know, I know... you're wondering WHY anyone would bother falsifying their "proof." What do they have to gain from it? Maybe a hot thread since "CB sucks" type threads are currently hot? Link exposure? Pats on the back from fellow Warriors?

    Beats me. *shrugs* Maybe you have some ideas?
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
    I don't get the argument about Clickbank being dishonest. They get the same 7.5% + $1 no matter if the affiliate gets credit or the Vendor gets the full sale.

    I can tell you as a fact, I've been a Vendor on Clickbank since 2003 and I've never had a customer contact me about an order and not be able to find their receipt credited to my Clickbank account.

    If they were really dishonest, Vendors would be affected as well. It's just not in their long term interest to do dishonest stuff.

    The other point to consider is, if affiliates were really getting screwed, you'd see a big drop in the percentage of sales referred by affiliates in their Marketplace stats. From what I can see, many Vendors on their network still have 80% or more of their sales coming from affiliates. I haven't noticed any meaningful changes.

    It's easy to blame someone else when your sales drop off. Unfortunately, complaining doesn't make them go back up.
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  • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
    you need a high volume to know the results.

    Someone making 200 or more sales a day is getting better statistics.
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  • Profile picture of the author hotlinkz
    Maybe I'm missing something here...but...exactly how does Clickbank benefit by not properly crediting affiliates? Seems the seller would be the one to benefit.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
      Originally Posted by hotlinkz View Post

      Maybe I'm missing something here...but...exactly how does Clickbank benefit by not properly crediting affiliates? Seems the seller would be the one to benefit.
      That's the point, they don't.
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      • Profile picture of the author hotlinkz
        Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

        That's the point, they don't.
        In fact, Clickbank looses when there are no sales. They charge fees to the seller and the affiliate. No sales, no processing fees to levy.

        It seems people are seeing their sales slumps as something Clickbank is doing.
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        • Profile picture of the author Janus
          Originally Posted by hotlinkz View Post

          In fact, Clickbank looses when there are no sales. They charge fees to the seller and the affiliate. No sales, no processing fees to levy.

          It seems people are seeing their sales slumps as something Clickbank is doing.
          Not necessarily, depends on whether sales are missing or the accounting for commissions are off.

          Don't all funds flow through Clickbank? Vendors would be screaming if their sales receipts didn't reconcile with their download activity. Clickbank monthly sales and cash reconciliations would indicate if the affiliate payout was out of balance. It would be more difficult to spot a problem among the individual account tracking.
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      • Profile picture of the author davesh
        i had been repeatedly asking for a refund of one product but clickbank is not responding i have lost hope of hearing from them i have placed the requeest for four times.
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        • Profile picture of the author Trader54
          Originally Posted by davesh View Post

          i had been repeatedly asking for a refund of one product but clickbank is not responding i have lost hope of hearing from them i have placed the requeest for four times.
          Contact the publisher.
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Bruno
        Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

        That's the point, they don't.
        Their system is antiquated. I.E their tracking sucks.


        There was a post made above about a vendor with a product using his own affiliate link and his aff account was showing no sales while his vendor account was.

        On a side note, I have no idea why the doctored CB screenshots from the orginal poster. Not only does it make the person who posted that look very foolish but it also muddies the waters with the CB issues on this forum. There are veteran marketers on this forum and this was idiodic to post bogus screenshots.
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        • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
          The OP is online yet has chosen not to comment on his foolish doctored screenshots....

          Hmm.. surprising?...
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          • Profile picture of the author Frank Bruno
            Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

            The OP is online yet has chosen not to comment on his foolish doctored screenshots....

            Hmm.. surprising?...
            JaY didn't you know Its called a "drive-by" or a "post and run" in Cyber world.... LOL

            Frank Bruno
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            • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
              Originally Posted by Frank Bruno View Post

              JaY didn't you know Its called a "drive-by" or a "post and run" in Cyber world.... LOL

              Frank Bruno
              LOL.. "post and run".. I can almost imagine his virtual Mercedes with tinted windows rolling by... haha...

              Gotta grab me a beer...
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              • Profile picture of the author Frank Bruno
                Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

                LOL.. "post and run".. I can almost imagine his virtual Mercedes with tinted windows rolling by... haha...

                Gotta grab me a beer...

                ROFLMAO Good one Jay! I can see it too!
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          • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
            Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

            The OP is online yet has chosen not to comment on his foolish doctored screenshots....
            Don't jump to conclusions. Remember the famous "wardrobe malfunction?" This is just a Photoshop malfunction.

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    • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
      Originally Posted by hotlinkz View Post

      Maybe I'm missing something here...but...exactly how does Clickbank benefit by not properly crediting affiliates? Seems the seller would be the one to benefit.
      They don't... the talk of a clickbank scam is ridiculous..

      HOWEVER

      My stats, testing and results prove to me without a shadow of a doubt that CB has tracking issues on some of their servers...

      I don't think this is CB scamming people, it's the result of a flawed and outdated system they have in place.
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      • Profile picture of the author Trader54
        Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

        They don't... the talk of a clickbank scam is ridiculous..

        HOWEVER

        My stats, testing and results prove to me without a shadow of a doubt that CB has tracking issues on some of their servers...

        I don't think this is CB scamming people, it's the result of a flawed and outdated system they have in place.
        I have no doubt there are tracking issues. Just like everything else internet related there are glitches.

        But then again who has a flawless system. Seems no one has an answer to a better alternative. At least not on the scale and size that clickbank is.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        [DELETED]
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        • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
          Originally Posted by alexa_s View Post

          Clearly.

          But the problem is, Jay, that the way they behave shows such disrespect and contempt for their affiliates, who have been trying to bring this to their attention for many months now, and who are met with denials, lies and evasions (in other words "dishonesty") that they really give the impression that for the same money they could be deliberately scamming people (I accept that they're not).

          If you treat people like sh1t for long enough, eventually they resent it and some of them do something about it, you know?

          The most galling thing of all is the way that any post that could possibly be interpreted in any way that might come across as being critical of Clickbank is censored at the Clickbank Forum. So they're even trying to prevent their affiliates from discussing the treatment they've been getting for the last few months. Difficult to have much sympathy with people who behave like that, isn't it?
          I don't disagree with you Alexa..

          I just think that if Clickbank openly discussed this issue, they may be adding fuel to a fire that is FAR from ready to be put out.

          They clearly don't know which route to take right now...

          The problems are intermittent, so they can't really pinpoint where/who is affected on a targeted enough scale for it to be effective in problem resolution.

          The shift to a hardcoded I.P. tracking affiliate system is probably too much change for what is such a small issue(the bad news is tiny in comparison to the good news and success stories that rarely get discussed in regards to CB).

          They could make a big switch, but, such a switch comes with it's own issues, it's own flaws and a whole new set of teething issues that a small outfit like Clickbank may not be able to deal with. Right now, they are running a fairly smooth operation for affiliates. I think they are just about trying to give the message of "take the rough with the smooth or leave it", Which is not entirely wrong in itself, is it?

          Some of my clickbank accounts plough along steadily with NO issues at all, whilst others need fixing from time to time..

          Peace

          Jay
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  • Profile picture of the author hotlinkz
    Jay,

    Your on track! Our government and corporations have everybody seeing "boogeymen" or is that "boogeypeople" behind every rock.

    There are also alternatives to Clickbank but it takes some "comfort zone" shifting for us to show our displeasure through action as opposed to just lip service.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gene Pimentel
    I don't use ClickBank as a vendor (yet) so I can't speak from experience. But in answer to the question "how does Clickbank benefit by not properly crediting affiliates?", as other have already said, they don't. BUT, the more persistent question in my mind is, whether or not it benefits them is not the point. The point is, are they able to accurately track all sales? Does their tracking system let some sales fall through the cracks? I've yet to see any solid evidence either way. If they are failing to accurately track, perhaps they just don't want to invest in fixing it, as it may involve restructuring the whole process. I don't know. What I do know is we should figure out a way to conduct a black and white test over a period of time to put an end to this debate once and for all.
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    • Profile picture of the author hotlinkz
      Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel View Post

      I don't use ClickBank as a vendor (yet) so I can't speak from experience. But in answer to the question "how does Clickbank benefit by not properly crediting affiliates?", as other have already said, they don't. BUT, the more persistent question in my mind is, whether or not it benefits them is not the point. The point is, are they able to accurately track all sales?
      You make some excellent points Gene. My question on this was actually meant to be rhetorical, mostly to make a point about erroneous "scam" theory that people are claiming before taking time to think about the situation.

      Clickbank has always been behind the "technology curve". My next point was, that there are other solutions that are less expensive and more robust. Why yell scam and start juggling Clickbank accounts when you can go elsewhere and maybe get more reliable service.

      If you are spending money to market Clickbank affiliate links and their antiquated tracking systems are not properly crediting your account - good business sense would dictate seeking a solution that does properly credit you for your efforts. Why continue to loose money.

      Of course, this is only conjecture, as I personally have not seen it happen on my account, and I have had that account since '99.
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  • Profile picture of the author Janus
    I think the ultimate point is that many affiliates feel there has been an improper accounting of their commissions with a valid basis for their suspicion. ClickBank incurs the total wrath because affilates don't know who else to blame.

    Assuming CB is not benefitting, then some other affiliate is receiving the commission properly due someone else. Then CB needs to convince their affiliates that all is working properly. One would think that CB conducts internal testing and internal audits on a regular basis to ensure a proper accounting takes place and no one is able to game the system. All that I've read on the thread is that CB issues no convincing replies if they reply at all. That's not good for business.
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  • Profile picture of the author stefanjames
    Wow this is interesting. Clickbank is one of my sources of income as well as to my surprise have seen 0 days when I think I shouldn't. Definitely something to look into. Great post
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    • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
      Originally Posted by stefanjames View Post

      Wow this is interesting. Clickbank is one of my sources of income as well as to my surprise have seen 0 days when I think I shouldn't. Definitely something to look into. Great post
      Don't focus too much on it.
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  • Profile picture of the author AlexKaplo
    Seems like this issue is not ending anytime soon...

    I've read countless threads about this problem and I'm pretty sure ClickBank themselves suspect something could be wrong... but why aren't they taking any kind of action to resolve this problem?

    I mean they could be facing a major lawsuit here...

    Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author Yogini
    I'd love to know if your username is assigned to a server or how the server issues operate. It does seem that when I've sent an e-mail to them I will get a sale within a day or two. I am not sure what that means or if it's a timeout process (which does seem to happen sometimes when I login). Also not everyone uses high speed dial-up. I know even with the wireless card from sprint or verizon, the stats page can load slow. This may be true for purchases and result in errors . If you are on dial up, this can only be worse. Also I am not sure about why certain credit cards get declined.

    Debbie
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  • Profile picture of the author Stallion
    I think Clickbank is broke. It's my honest opinion. I know everyone thinks it's profitable, but there doesn't seem to be anyone trying to go into the same business model. There's a lot of paydotcom like sites, but that's different. CB controls all the cash and falls under a much different regulatory body.

    I don't believe it's that profitable. CB has been running their business like crap for a decade and no one has really come in with the same game plan to beat them.

    We all know there is a problem. We all know and Clickbank knows it, even though they won't say.

    I just come back to two logical conclusions...

    a. they're retarded
    b. they don't have the money to fix the problem.

    My money is on B.

    Now, just so no one comes in with a "but clickbank does a million a day in sales"... that's revenue. That's not profit. I'm sure people will give a simplistic business analysis that resembles PDC, not CB. When you control a million dollars, hold it and distribute it to all the parties, you fall under a very different business model than PDC.

    There are no "real" competitors of CB... and that means competitors that do ebooks and hold the cash because there just isn't enough money in it.

    It makes the most sense to me. If you're rolling in the dough, you fix the problem, upgrade the system to the year 2009 and make more money. That's what a normal business would do.
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  • Profile picture of the author Yogini
    Harvey is right. What's interesting is that a lot of these same issues are in a thread from 2006:

    ClickBankSuccessForum.com :: View topic - affliate links dead

    Debbie
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Bruno
    Another interesting point I just thought of....

    Since CB sales don't show up for sometimes hours later in your CB account (Its not instant) the sales and tracking are obviously fed into a database.

    Anything database driven is easily open for manipulation.

    Frank Bruno
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    **NEWSFLASH**
    (cut to female newsreader voice)

    A Los Angeles forum moderator was shot down today in a gory "drive-bye" "post and run" incident... it is thought, the post-out (as opposed to shoot-out) was instigated by the nuking of a previous post, but this is not confirmed and the investigation continues...

    "Back to James for the weather, where you are"

    James: "Thanks Carol"

    ...... I really do need that beer

    Peace

    Jay
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Bruno
      Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

      **NEWSFLASH**
      (cut to female newsreader voice)

      A Los Angeles forum moderator was shot down today in a gory "drive-bye" "post and run" incident... it is thought, the post-out (as opposed to shoot-out) was instigated by the nuking of a previous post, but this is not confirmed and the investigation continues...

      "Back to James for the weather, where you are"

      James: "Thanks Carol"

      ...... I really do need that beer

      Peace

      Jay
      .....Continuing our earlier reports of the "Post and Run" incident that occured in a heavily infested IM forum (cyber gang) It was suspected that a rival gang member from the CB Maniacs had shot down all treaty hopes of coming to a truse after years of mayhem.(tracking issue)

      Frank Bruno
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  • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
    Did you call me JayX ?

    I was just doing a drive by post
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    • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
      Originally Posted by James Schramko View Post

      Did you call me JayX ?

      I was just doing a drive by post
      LOL.... Schramko goes gangster... that'd be an epic..
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  • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
    WTF? What is the point of this thread? Those screenshots are a joke!! That really annoys me seeing that on our board. Just another pointless Clickbank jab.

    TomG.
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  • Profile picture of the author bauger
    I think instead of using hoplinks to track stuff find a different alternative to track.
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  • Profile picture of the author Neil S
    Jay has it right above, Clickbank is not purposely ripping people off, it's just their tracking and payment system is terrible.

    In an effort to curb payment from fraudulent credit cards they have overcompensated by temporarily shutting down accounts if something suspicious happens. So this means all it takes is one suspicious payment to stop all sales to your account.

    After testing selling the same products through different affiliate networks it became IMMEDIATELY clear that Clickbank was missing out on significant conversions.

    The most troubling aspect of this ordeal is it has been going on for so long that I question if Clickbank even cares. Surely if they did the company would have done something about it by now.

    I think what it has come down to is they would rather have affiliates make less money as long as they can prevent fraudulent payments. And if this mean affiliates missing out on sales then so be it.
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    • Profile picture of the author steve39
      Originally Posted by Neil S View Post

      Jay has it right above, Clickbank is not purposely ripping people off, it's just their tracking and payment system is terrible.

      In an effort to curb payment from fraudulent credit cards they have overcompensated by temporarily shutting down accounts if something suspicious happens. So this means all it takes is one suspicious payment to stop all sales to your account.

      After testing selling the same products through different affiliate networks it became IMMEDIATELY clear that Clickbank was missing out on significant conversions.

      The most troubling aspect of this ordeal is it has been going on for so long that I question if Clickbank even cares. Surely if they did the company would have done something about it by now.

      I think what it has come down to is they would rather have affiliates make less money as long as they can prevent fraudulent payments. And if this mean affiliates missing out on sales then so be it.
      This makes more sense than anything I've heard so far. If this is the case, I wonder how long it lasts and whether the account ever returns to normal? I suppose only CB knows for sure.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Look, there is a simple way to determine if there truly is something going
        on with your account and I don't know why anybody hasn't thought of
        this yet.

        Let's say you've just seen 3 or 4 days of zeros after getting regular sales for
        weeks and weeks.

        Pull up any of the products that you normally get sales with using your
        hoplink.

        Go through the sales process, first checking to see if affiliate=<yourid> on
        the Clickbank payment page.

        If it doesn't, test it with another account.

        If that does then it is obvious that your account is being blocked for
        whatever reason.

        If there is no problem with affiliate=<yourid> at the start, buy the product.
        See if the sale goes through and if you're being credited for the sale.

        If you are, then the only explanation is that you're simply going through a
        dry spell.

        If you aren't, then there is no question that Clickbank is doing something
        to your account.

        This will at least give you some ammunition to fight with.
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