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Is this unethical emailing?

by Rbtmarshall
23 replies
...and by unethical, I mean violating the can-spam act.

I just wanted to give people a warning about a recent email I received. So that you can be aware and not fall victim to the shady marketing tactic.


A few months ago I purchased keywordresearcher, it had potential to be a nice tool for what it did. After trying it out for a week, I had to cancel and ask for a refund, it had no proxy switching support, and kept messing up the adwords accounts used in it's queries.

When I asked for the refund, I explained the reason why. I was refunded pretty quickly with no problems and no further emails after removing myself from their email list.



well, that was until today. I get an email. apparently they decided to put my name on another list of their for a new tool called keywordorganizer. I got an email from them today promoting the product.


I replied back to the email, asking why I was added to another list when I removed myself a while back. And the reply was oops, that was for keywordresearcher this email came from the keywordorganizer list.


well. I never opted into that list and according to can-spam people cant transfer you from one list to another

CAN-SPAM Act: A Compliance Guide for Business | BCP Business Center

6. Honor opt-out requests promptly. Any opt-out mechanism you offer must be able to process opt-out requests for at least 30 days after you send your message. You must honor a recipient’s opt-out request within 10 business days. You can’t charge a fee, require the recipient to give you any personally identifying information beyond an email address, or make the recipient take any step other than sending a reply email or visiting a single page on an Internet website as a condition for honoring an opt-out request. Once people have told you they don’t want to receive more messages from you, you can’t sell or transfer their email addresses, even in the form of a mailing list. The only exception is that you may transfer the addresses to a company you’ve hired to help you comply with the CAN-SPAM Act.

I was told I would be removed from the new list. But, that is besides the point.
#emailing #unethical
  • Profile picture of the author robingg14
    I get tens of emails every day from people I have not opted in with. How can we avoid it in this age of super-scrapers? I am less apt to worry about an email from a former list I've been on than one from someone I have never opted in with. I dunno... don't like either, but the latter feels more like an invasion of privacy to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author TrentLee
    If all you did was ask for a refund of a product you bought, I don't believe that there is a legal requirement for the seller to remove you from their list(s). And as far as transferring your email to other lists, etc. it may be arguing semantics but at the end of the day you gave them permission to email you (I'm sure) and based on what you posted you haven't rescinded that permission.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rbtmarshall
      Originally Posted by TrentLee View Post

      If all you did was ask for a refund of a product you bought, I don't believe that there is a legal requirement for the seller to remove you from their list(s). And as far as transferring your email to other lists, etc. it may be arguing semantics but at the end of the day you gave them permission to email you (I'm sure) and based on what you posted you haven't rescinded that permission.
      No. I DID remove myself from the email list. Re-read my post. I said I received no further emails from them after removing myself from their list. Until their promotion today for a new product.
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  • Profile picture of the author TrentLee
    You didn't say you requested to be removed from their list, you only said you requested a refund. When you later said "...after removing myself form their list" I figured you meant you assumed you removed yourself from their list by requesting a refund, which I'm saying is not the same thing. If I made the incorrect assumption I apologize.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sue McDonald
    I have to agree it is very annoying when you know you unsubscribe from a list only to receive an email in the next few days from the person you have unsubscribe from.

    This has happened to me a few times and I have just unsubscribed again.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rbtmarshall
      Originally Posted by Sue McDonald View Post

      I have to agree it is very annoying when you know you unsubscribe from a list only to receive an email in the next few days from the person you have unsubscribe from.

      This has happened to me a few times and I have just unsubscribed again.


      My thought is that the spammers want you to do exactly that. To quietly ask for another removal and not broadcast the spam violation so that others are aware of it.

      this way they can still make it into the inbox of others. Others who don't realize they may have been spammed, but get lured into the offer. An offer that should have never arrived in your inbox the way it did.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rbtmarshall
    Originally Posted by robingg14 View Post

    I get tens of emails every day from people I have not opted in with. How can we avoid it in this age of super-scrapers? I am less apt to worry about an email from a former list I've been on than one from someone I have never opted in with. I dunno... don't like either, but the latter feels more like an invasion of privacy to me.

    Gamail helps cut down on spam for me. I look in my spam folder once and a while and there are hundreds every month.


    you can also report spam to the FTC.


    CAN-SPAM Act: A Compliance Guide for Business | BCP Business Center


    Forward unwanted or deceptive messages to:

    the Federal Trade Commission at spam@uce.gov. Be sure to include the complete spam email.
    your email provider. At the top of the message, state that you're complaining about being spammed. Some email services have buttons that allow you to mark messages as junk mail or report them spam.
    the sender's email provider, if you can tell who it is. Most web mail providers and ISPs want to cut off spammers who abuse their system. Again, make sure to include the entire spam email and say that you're complaining about spam.
    If you try to unsubscribe from an email list and your request is not honored, file a complaint with the FTC.

    the reason I posted this topic is because this spam(product) is related to our IM community. It's stuff like this that give us all bad reputation. and why some want to call themselves something other than internet marketeers
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  • Profile picture of the author Allan_Gardyne
    You unsubscribed.
    They kept sending you stuff.
    Yes, that's unethical.
    So if you give them bad publicity, they deserve it.
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
    Once people have told you they don’t want to receive more messages from you, you can’t sell or transfer their email addresses, even in the form of a mailing list.
    this doesn't really refer to in-house lists - it refers to lists that leave their business and are transfered/sold to another.
    It sounds like you placed you on multiple in house lists (which is perfectly legal and legit) as a form of segmentation, and their unsubscribe mechanism only took you off the one list (assuming you used a link from their email).

    It's probably just a poor system on their end - nothing nefarious. I doubt they would have anything to gain by trying to market more stuff to an unhappy customer who already un-subbed. As an email marketer myself, I would see zero point in this.
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  • Profile picture of the author sdkulkarniB
    Yeah It's unethical coz you are not a customer anymore
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    I don’t bother unsubscribing exactly because I have seen that many times this is not enough, there are too many dishonest people online.

    I saw many ‘unsubscribe links’ going to pages where you have only the option to change your subscription preferences, without being able to unsubscribe…

    Instead of wasting my time with this matter, I simply send the messages I dislike to the spam folder.






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    • Profile picture of the author fluffythewondercat
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      I don't bother unsubscribing exactly because I have seen that many times this is not enough, there are too many dishonest people online.

      I saw many 'unsubscribe links' going to pages where you have only the option to change your subscription preferences, without being able to unsubscribe...

      Instead of wasting my time with this matter, I simply send the messages I dislike to the spam folder.
      Not that it matters to me, because I'm pretty sure you're not on my list, but are you aware that for many mail user agents (such as Gmail or Yahoo Mail) you are also sending a spam report?

      Is it fair to submit a spam report just because you are too lazy or distrustful to unsub from a list?

      fLufF
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      • Profile picture of the author robestrong
        They screwed up. Not intentionally I don't think, though.

        You can give them bad press, but it's probably easier just to unsub from that list. They can't have you on a 1000 lists, and if you never opted in most email platforms will block their stuff anyways.
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        • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
          Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

          I don't bother unsubscribing exactly because I have seen that many times this is not enough, there are too many dishonest people online.

          I saw many 'unsubscribe links' going to pages where you have only the option to change your subscription preferences, without being able to unsubscribe...

          Instead of wasting my time with this matter, I simply send the messages I dislike to the spam folder.






          So because you didn't want to "waste your time", the sender most likely get's false spam reports filed on him/her??

          not cool
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  • Profile picture of the author andyfwther
    You make a good point Robert, some unsubscribe pages you get give you a list of all the lists you've been added to and others are a lot less transparent. The question is whether they added you to further lists after you unsubscribed. It seems unethical but as others have stated quite a common thing.

    Personally I have a separate email address for sign ups (I think it's got around 10k unopened at present). This kind of thing is all too common.
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  • Profile picture of the author napoleonfirst
    Of course, this seems to be unetical emailing and you should do something about it. There is law that protects us but you need to tell them what you have in mind, I mean if you tell them that you are going to suit them, they will have to do something about their misbehavior.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Robert, Jason is right. You misread the CAN-SPAM clause. 'Transfer',in this situation, means to provide to another company or outside entity. Using the word 'transfer' closes the "I didn't sell it, I rented it" loophole.

      When you made your initial purchase, you created a business relationship with that vendor even though you later refunded the purchase and unsubscribed from that announcement list. The previous business relationship was still intact, giving them the right to contact you about their new product unless you specifically notified them that you wanted no further contact at all.

      Look at it from a marketing standpoint. Just because the product you bought initially didn't work out for you doesn't mean that a future one won't either. They just covered their bases by informing you of the new product.

      How well they executed that task is another question entirely...
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonwebb
    If you have to ask then the answer is usual no.
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  • Profile picture of the author karlmay1980
    I am sure that infringes it somewhat, not sure there is much point wasting time worrying about it though and so many companies move people between lists and have them on numerous one after they opt in that it is difficult to control.

    Good to post it though just so people can be wary of using this company with bad ethics!.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by karlmay1980 View Post

      I am sure that infringes it somewhat, not sure there is much point wasting time worrying about it though and so many companies move people between lists and have them on numerous one after they opt in that it is difficult to control.

      Good to post it though just so people can be wary of using this company with bad ethics!.
      A lot of people (not just you, Karl, you just happened to be the last post before I commented) are confusing "ethics" with "compliance".

      It is quite possible to send totally ethical email which violates one or more aspects of some legislations (like CAN-SPAM).

      It is also very possible to send email which is ethically abhorrent and completely compliant with the same legislation.
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  • Profile picture of the author robin41
    Spam or not what I do not understand is why some marketers send 2/3 emails per day, sometimes with two or three links per email. I get 30/40 of such emails daily and this takes so much time to go through while I wish to concentrate on one aspect of IM (like CPA, or list building, or affiliate marketing) which I am trying to master enough to earn something.
    It's a pity for the good offers among them when I trash all the bunch.
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  • Profile picture of the author RachelLily
    If you cancel a subscription, and mail keeps coming, it may be necessary to add the junk mail's sender or domain to your blocked list. This may not always work, however. A lot of spam senders will randomize the "From" section, so you can't block just one. (For example, you may get an email -which is really spam- from Sk8tr92 and then the same email from the same spam people that says it is from Sk8tr49)
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