I don't agree with what you said, so I'm gonna be rude!

by Peter Bestel 88 replies
I think this forum is great and in comparison to other places we're a fairly genteel lot, but...

RANT: I can't help but notice how some people's answers to posts are just plain rude!

I know that generating discussion is a key element to any good forum, but provoking arguments for no good reason just seems immature and unprofessional.

There's an impatience that comes across occasionally with one-line retorts that are unnecessarily argumentative at best and downright abusive at worst.

What possible purpose does posting like that serve?

Now, I'm not against a good debate, and I can appreciate that sometimes debates can escalate into an argument if not handled well, but sometimes it seems that folk get 'mugged' for no good reason.

From a personal perspective I have lost a degree of respect for people that can't seem to control their negative emotions and unfortunately this behaviour isn't confined to newbies. Some Warriors, both senior and new, demonstrate how to give constructive criticism and great feedback on a regular basis - they might be quite blunt and direct but they know that their words are heeded a lot more if they avoid being rude.

So come on you guys, chill out a bit and take a few deep breaths before pressing that submit button. Sending it may make you feel better in the short term, but to others it'll just make you look petty and stupid.

Peter
#main internet marketing discussion forum #agree #don’t #gonna #i’m #rude
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  • Profile picture of the author Imran Naseem
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      What's the big deal ?

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      nothing to see here.

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      • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
        I agree.

        Some people have an attitude of "I've been around here forever, I know a lot more than you so I'm gonna be rude about it" :p
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        • Profile picture of the author QuantumSuccess
          Originally Posted by annoyedgirl View Post

          I agree.

          Some people have an attitude of "I've been around here forever, I know a lot more than you so I'm gonna be rude about it" :p
          Originally Posted by Phil Jacobson


          I have hit 100 posts (wow big deal) and a part of me (small part) already thinks I have the right to lambast people. I needed to hear this.
          That,s the problem.

          We automatically assume that someone who made a lot of posts, has more knowledge than a marketer with only a few posts. We're giving them "Guru" status without knowing (at least in many cases) if they are really successful with their online business. (Of course, I don't mean the big hitters like John Reese, etc.)

          Let's not forget that there might be numerous reasons why a warrior has only a few posts to show for (lack of time = too busy to build and grow their business, etc.).

          Solution: Look for the quality of their posts and not the quantity.

          Hope this helps.

          Peter
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          • Profile picture of the author adamv
            People feel like they can get away with saying whatever they want to on the internet and say things they would never say to your face. It's like when you're driving on the freeway. If someone nearly crashes into you and you toot the horn to avoid a collision that same person is quick to flip you the bird.

            I don't believe they would do that to me if we were in line at the bank. I guess on the internet or driving in a car they realize it's more difficult for me to punch them in the neck than it would be face to face.
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            • Profile picture of the author TOPGUN08
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              • Profile picture of the author QuantumSuccess
                Originally Posted by TOPGUN08 View Post

                I sometimes wonder what this forum would be like if post-counts were disabled.
                Interesting thought, TopGun.

                I am pretty sure the forum wouldn't be that busy anymore.
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              • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  I agree.

                  Having said that, I don't even care anymore. Let people be as abusive to
                  me as they want. I have learned that it doesn't make me bad when they
                  call me stupid or whatever else they call me. It makes THEM look bad.

                  See, when people used to get rude with me, I used to blast back because I
                  was afraid if they let their degrading remark of me go by, it would make the
                  other members see me in a bad light. What I didn't realize is that by fighting
                  back, I was actually playing right into the abuser's hands.

                  It took me a long time (a very long time) but you will never see me get into
                  another war of words with another member no matter how rude they are.

                  In addition, I will never be rude to another member again. Yes, I have
                  had moments where I was less than kind. Nobody deserves it. Not even
                  spammers or other rude people. There is a nice way to tell somebody that
                  what they are doing isn't the best course of action.

                  Call it the kinder and gentler Steven Wagenheim.

                  I say it's about time.
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                • Profile picture of the author KimW
                  Perception is everything.
                  But it's also an abstract thing.
                  I know I sometimes come across as rude when I don't intend to,and there are other times I try to be subtle and sarcastic and it goes over the intended victims head.
                  That said, it would be impossible to count the number of times I have cut out the reply I was about to send and pasted to a text file on my dektop to either review or revise later. Usually it gets deleted,after I've come to my senses.
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                • Profile picture of the author zerofill
                  Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

                  Generally speaking, the computers (going back to the bulletin board days) are basically a license to be a real asshole, if you want. I never really understood that (excepting of course where discussions get heated and things get out of hand).

                  I know that for the most part, most people acting that way towards me online probably would think twice about doing it in person, hehehehe.

                  There's a good example of this in the last 4 or 5 posts of a WSO I'm running. The person, at least I felt, was just being flat out rude by his last post. I was amazed at a couple of his comments - some people just don't get it.
                  LOL...I looked at that...I guess I am being rude now too for saying that guy just seems like an idiot lol. Lucky he could form 4 words let alone 4 posts.
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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  "BIG" Mike,
                  I know that for the most part, most people acting that way towards me online probably would think twice about doing it in person, hehehehe.
                  Think very carefully about the implications of what you just said, sir.

                  I, for one, am sick of your attempts to apply physical intimidation to a forum of ideas.

                  You have no possible idea just how far you've dropped in my estimation in the past week or two. I very much doubt you care, for that matter. Which is fine with me.

                  Off to look for a "bozo filter" in this forum software...


                  Paul

                  PS: If that sounds rude, so be it. There are behaviors I wouldn't tolerate in my home. I see no reason I should tolerate them online.
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                  • Profile picture of the author zerofill
                    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                    "BIG" Mike,Think very carefully about the implications of what you just said, sir.

                    I, for one, am sick of your attempts to apply physical intimidation to a forum of ideas.

                    You have no possible idea just how far you've dropped in my estimation in the past week or two. I very much doubt you care, for that matter. Which is fine with me.

                    Off to look for a "bozo filter" in this forum software...


                    Paul

                    PS: If that sounds rude, so be it. There are behaviors I wouldn't tolerate in my home. I see no reason I should tolerate them online.
                    I for one enjoy reading both your posts...have since I joined...But I didn't see anything wrong with what Big Mike wrote there.

                    I think basically what he is saying in a way... is the same way many people myself included think.

                    First off...if I think someone is an asshole...I have no problem telling them on a forum or to their face. But many people attack others on forums because they have no real backbone in life...and would hide in a corner somewhere instead of speaking their mind face to face. Those people are what we refer to as "keyboard tough guys".

                    They constantly troll forums looking to be an ass at every turn...yet they are more than likely weasels in real life and scared of their own shadow. I don't mean in a physical sense either...I mean in a mental sense. They are weak minded...

                    Look I am 6'2" 300lbs...Most people in real life are intimidated by my size...But I have had plenty of little 5'5" guys 150lbs speak their mind to me face to face...I respect that... I am not going to kick the crap out of someone for speaking their mind.

                    So I am not so sure Mike is referring to physical intimidation as far as his over all physical stature...as much as referring to people who have no backbone away from their keyboard. They wouldn't say the same thing physically being there. Not for fear of being knocked out...just for fear itself.

                    I see a growing trend with todays youth...same thing going on. My oldest daughter...she can express herself on a computer and say things she can't say away from the keyboard. It is really starting to make me take notice of how wrong that really is. While my younger daughter will tell you how it is...no matter who you are...on the computer or off.

                    So my oldest has no backbone...and I am trying to get her to develop one...Or she will be a doormat all her life for people to wipe their feet on. That really really bothers me...

                    Now I could be wrong..maybe Mike did mean he would knock em out lol...

                    But often time text...is text...and people take it the wrong way. No voice inflection etc...when it comes to text.
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                    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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                      • Profile picture of the author zerofill
                        Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

                        You got it Karl - and more to the point, I said...
                        Karl? Put your glasses on Mike lol
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                        • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
                          Not guilty

                          I'm bigger than all of you, nur nur nur nur nur!!!!

                          (Must go and hide)
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                          • Profile picture of the author zerofill
                            Originally Posted by KarlWarren View Post

                            Not guilty

                            I'm bigger than all of you, nur nur nur nur nur!!!!

                            (Must go and hide)
                            lol...

                            Your ok...I'm to lazy to go lookin for ya HAHA...

                            Actually on a side note I did have a horrible temper...but they make pills for that...now I never get pissed off much anymore heh. Unless I forget them lol.
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                            • Profile picture of the author myob
                              Some of my most successful sales reps are the rudest people I know. Being polite and deferential could cost you sales, because that is often taken as a sign of weakness.
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                              • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
                                Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                Some of my most successful sales reps are the rudest people I know. Being polite and deferential could cost you sales, because that is often taken as a sign of weakness.
                                Well, there's certainly more ways than one to skin a cat, aggressive sales can work, just like bullies can get there own way - for a time. If your rudest sales reps are your most successful, I would respectfully suggest you update your staff training. I believe you'll see an upturn in your sales and have a happier, more motivated team.

                                I've no idea what your business is, but I can't imagine any market that would ever see politeness as a weakness, certainly not one I'd care to be associated with.

                                Peter
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                                • Profile picture of the author zerofill
                                  Originally Posted by Peter Bestel View Post


                                  I've no idea what you business is, but I can't imagine any market that would ever see politeness as a weakness, certainly not one I'd care to be associated with.

                                  Peter
                                  Bookies doing collections LOL
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                                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                                    This reply is to Paul Myers and Big Mike.

                                    You guys are two of my favorite people here. I think you both know that.

                                    Mike, when I first got here, you thought I was a scammer. Just recently
                                    you publicly came out and admitted that you were wrong about me and
                                    that I was a valuable contributor to this forum.

                                    It takes a big man to say something like that and I will never forget it.

                                    Also, you gave me some solid advice about outsourcing when I was too
                                    stubborn to hear it. Thank you.

                                    Paul. You helped me with one of the toughest problems I had when I was
                                    being scammed by a fellow warrior who thank goodness is no longer here
                                    to prey on the gullible.

                                    I owe you a debt that I can never repay for that. You saved me thousands
                                    of dollars.

                                    On top of that, you've given me some great advice and tips that have
                                    so helped my business.

                                    I am where I am today because of people like you and others here at this
                                    forum like Bev Clement, Andy Henry, John Taylor and too many more to
                                    mention by name. The brilliant people here have so changed my mindset
                                    on so many things.

                                    Seeing two of my favorite people go at it like this saddens me. If that
                                    makes me sound like a wuss, so be it. I've never been accused of being
                                    a Hulk Hogan type.

                                    Once words leave your mouth, they can never be taken back. Sometimes
                                    we say things that last for the rest of our lives.

                                    Anyway, that's all I'm going to say on this subject.

                                    I've grown much as a person thanks to this place.

                                    I intend to keep growing.

                                    Life's too short to be angry.
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                                • Profile picture of the author WritingMadwoman
                                  Ugh, I so agree with Peter on this one, I just can't tolerate pushy salespeople. I'll purposely avoid buying from them just so I'm not condoning their behavior, even if I really wanted to buy what they had to offer. I just can't do it because I know they'll think that kind of tactic works and keep doing it. Maybe it does work on some people, but definitely not stubborn Taurus women who refuse to be bullied. LOL

                                  Wendy


                                  Originally Posted by Peter Bestel View Post

                                  Well, there's certainly more ways than one to skin a cat, aggressive sales can work, just like bullies can get there own way - for a time. If your rudest sales reps are your most successful, I would respectfully suggest you update your staff training. I believe you'll see an upturn in your sales and have a happier, more motivated team.Peter
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                                  • Profile picture of the author myob
                                    We don't bully anybody into buying our products. We're just totally rude. If you don't want to buy, the h..ll with you. There's plenty of other people that will buy.
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                                    • Profile picture of the author melanied
                                      It seems like using the ignore function might make it difficult to follow the train of thought in a thread, though, or to be certain that you aren't bringing up a point that's been expressed upthread.

                                      For people that use the ignore function on other forums, how do you handle that?
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                                    • Profile picture of the author WritingMadwoman
                                      Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                      We don't bully anybody into buying our products. We're just totally rude. If you don't want to buy, the h..ll with you. There's plenty of other people that will buy.
                                      LOL! Allrighty then. Not much I can say to that, but more power to you if it works for you.

                                      Wendy
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                                    • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
                                      Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                      We don't bully anybody into buying our products. We're just totally rude. If you don't want to buy, the h..ll with you. There's plenty of other people that will buy.

                                      Ah well, to each their own. I must admit that gave me a little laugh.
                                      Whatever floats your boat, just glad I won't be needing your services.


                                      Peter
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                                      • Profile picture of the author Chris Monty
                                        Well, I do believe that controversy creates cash, but there's a right way and a wrong way to do it, for sure.
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                                        • Profile picture of the author myob
                                          Our target market is only to SMART shoppers, who want the highest quality products at the lowest possible prices. If you are a SMART shopper, then visit my store for the best value. Otherwise, don't even bother. You're just wasting my time.
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                                          • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
                                            Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                            We don't bully anybody into buying our products. We're just totally rude. If you don't want to buy, the h..ll with you. There's plenty of other people that will buy.
                                            Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                            Our target market is only to SMART shoppers, who want the highest quality products at the lowest possible prices. If you are a SMART shopper, then visit my store for the best value. Otherwise, don't even bother. You're just wasting my time.
                                            There's no denying it, you certainly walk your talk.

                                            Thanks for your contribution.
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                                          • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
                                            I think the original point big mike was saying was that people say things hiding behind a computer and keyboard they would never say face to face. That's the bad thing about the internet. People turn into @$$hole$ and spew out insults they wouldn't have the backbone to say in person.

                                            There's some people I wish I were in a room with them face to face to see if they would say the trash they say in person or if they are a coward who can only spew it off while hiding behind the safety and anonymity of a keyboard and monitor. Cause some people are so rude online but if they said half the stuff they say in person they would be beaten black and blue and learn their lesson. I don't often type and almost never say vulgar words but I can get physical (it's very beneficial-good exercise, burning off calories, increased heart flow, venting off anger, and releasing frustrations) :p
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                                            • I completely agree. This is the same mentality that is behind "road rage" and what I call "drive thru rage". Road rage was proven to be a much worse problem because people feel anonymous while inside their cars. I was a Restaurant Manager for Jack in the Box for almost 20 years. We saw this same thing in the drive thru; people can be downright rude while at the speaker box, but their disposition changes just a bit when they drive up and are face to face with us. It's a form of cowardice, actually.

                                              Originally Posted by annoyedgirl View Post

                                              I think the original point big mike was saying was that people say things hiding behind a computer and keyboard they would never say face to face. That's the bad thing about the internet. People turn into @$$ and spew out insults they wouldn't have the backbone to say in person.

                                              There's some people I wish I were in a room with them face to face to see if they would say the trash they say in person or if they are a coward who can only spew it off while hiding behind the safety and anonymity of a keyboard and monitor. Cause some people are so rude online but if they said half the stuff they say in person they would be beaten black and blue and learn their lesson. I don't often type and almost never say vulgar words but I can get physical (it's very beneficial-good exercise, burning off calories, increased heart flow, venting off anger, and releasing frustrations) :p
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                                              • Profile picture of the author adamv
                                                Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

                                                I was a Restaurant Manager for Jack in the Box for almost 20 years. We saw this same thing in the drive thru; people can be downright rude while at the speaker box, but their disposition changes just a bit when they drive up and are face to face with us. It's a form of cowardice, actually.
                                                It's wrong to treat people like that under any circumstances but it's just plain stupid to piss off the people handling your food before they serve it to you. Even if I'm getting piss poor service in a restaurant I'm still polite to the wait staff.
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                                          • Profile picture of the author Wild Boom
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                                            • Profile picture of the author myob
                                              The customer’s perception is your reality.

                                              No one could tell that I was actually just joking here. On the other hand, at first everyone thought the exchanges between Big Mike and Paul Myers was just playful bantering.

                                              What we often mistake as rudeness may be misunderstanding, because we are unable to see the nuances of facial expressions.

                                              I do seminars on customer service for local businesses, and my "rude" salespeople are presenting to the managers observations of their own employees to customers. In my seminars, employees express that do not even realize they are being rude, it's just their personality unaware of how it is being interpreted by the customer.

                                              The customer’s perception is your reality. Understand your customers, and always make a conscious choice to deliver amazing service. You’ll stand out because they don’t get it anywhere else. Care more than others think wise. Risk more than others think safe. Dream more than others think practical. Expect more than others think possible. Customer service is training people how to serve clients in an outstanding fashion. And always remember that customers don’t expect you to always be perfect, but they do expect you to fix things when they go wrong.
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                                              • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
                                                Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                                No one could tell that I was actually just joking here.
                                                I can see the point you were trying to make but as there was no ambiguity in your statements, no possibly way of misinterpreting your message, what other conclusion could readers come to?

                                                Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                                On the other hand, at first everyone thought the exchanges between Big Mike and Paul Myers was just playful bantering.
                                                I'd say it would have been a stretch to interpret their comments as 'playful banter' but I noticed that my ironic comment was misinterpreted - if I'd had a tongue-in-cheek emoticon I would've used it.

                                                Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                                What we often mistake as rudeness may be misunderstanding, because we are unable to see the nuances of facial expressions.
                                                Agree with this to a point. However, the rudeness that this thread is addressing is the unambiguous, obvious put-downs. No amount of facial expression or subtle body language cues would alter their meanings.

                                                Communicating emotion in writing is obviously limited by the author's skills, (as I've proved!) and the reader's ability to comprehend. The use of the little smileys help somewhat but yes, we need to take care with what and how we write thus reducing misunderstandings.

                                                Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                                I do seminars on customer service for local businesses, and my "rude" salespeople are presenting to the managers observations of their own employees to customers. In my seminars, employees express that do not even realize they are being rude, it's just their personality unaware of how it is being interpreted by the customer.
                                                I'm sorry, maybe it's me and maybe it's getting late, but I'm not sure what you're saying in this paragraph. Are you saying you teach sales people to be rude or just that your customers don't realise when your staff are rude?

                                                And if we're finishing on unattributed quotes:

                                                The meaning of your communication is the response you get

                                                Peter
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                                                • Profile picture of the author myob
                                                  Peter,

                                                  Thank you for allowing me to reply to what many may consider to be rudeness, of which is actually only a very sincere effort to demonstrate the problem of written communication. Even in verbal communication, the meaning may be completely reversed by change in tonal quality, or emphasis of a word or even syllable. In the Wild West of the American Frontier, many guns were drawn and lives lost but for the interpretation of a word by intonation. In this spirit, I will disregard your serious allegation that my unattributed quotes may be taken as plagiarism. For your information, in my customers service training seminars, my speeches are full of unattributed quotes for effect, but all attendees receive a book which gives full disclosure of the source of those quotes.

                                                  Not knowing if you are intentionally misrepresenting my statement

                                                  "I do seminars on customer service for local businesses, and my "rude" salespeople are presenting to the managers observations of their own employees to customers. In my seminars, employees express that do not even realize they are being rude, it's just their personality unaware of how it is being interpreted by the customer."

                                                  to insinuate that I am teaching my sales people to be rude, or that my customers don't realize when my staff is rude, I will dismiss this as perhaps my fault for not being clear in my communication. To this I humbly apologize.

                                                  To be more clear now, what my sales people do is conduct a customer service survey for my clients. They then present their findings to the manager or owner with recommendations for our customer service seminar series. My sales people are very good, and I could never be more proud of the service that they offer. They demonstrate that the employees, often with a language barrier or immature awareness, frequently appear rude to customers. My sales people demonstrate to the manager that a compliment, with emphasis on certain words and facial expression can be the most rude insult. And, conversely, an insult given with a smile, may be taken as a compliment. My sales people demonstrate unintended rudeness with finess. That was my point.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author lilmechante01
                                    This thread has mad me reflect quite a bit on things I’ve learned through the Law of Attraction, karma, and Deepak Chopra (to name a few)…so much so, that I’m adding my penny to it.

                                    At any given moment in time, our behavior has shadings—or the appeal of ambiguity. By seeing more ambiguity in the situation, you start to grasp how complex and interconnected everything is. External influences and circumstances always shade us, and people have a tendency to react through the ego out of a feeling of need to protect himself/herself. In reality, the external shadings aren’t as important as our reaction toward them. We are only human and remember the same is true about every person you meet. A person who demonstrates both positive and negative qualities, strengths and weaknesses is not flawed, but complete. Just remember that your reactions are really your own reflection in the mirror that you are seeing. :rolleyes:

                                    “The worst thing anyone says about me contains some truth—about them.” ~Deepak Chopra

                                    Personally, I am more of an observer and reflecter…I guess some here would refer to me as a lurker...but I see it as taking more a silent warrior approach—sit in quiet and stillness until it’s time to make your move, but when you do, do so quickly and efficiently, and make a difference for the greater good. Or, in the spirit of my inner lioness—listen closely and discern carefully before acting, rather than moving ahead impulsively and recklessly. And, darlin, when I feel the urge to roar I’ll do so for everyone to hear. If you choose to react rudely toward me or feel an egotistical need to invalidate my input, I will listen and reflect upon it to see if there is a lesson in it that I need to learn. (But, I will also warn-- this kitten has claws and knows how to use them). Some of the things I’ve read on the forum make me recall something a friend of mine has stated at times to various people who were in disagreement…and, it has it holds value when approaching negativity…I appreciate and accept your ‘reality’ (opinions, behavior, et al) but that doesn’t mean I have to accept it as my own. “Niceness can have an edge; snideness can be amusing.” ~Deepak Chopra

                                    So, to all of you reading this, or those I may have discussions with in the future…despite any differences we may have, I leave you with this (which I guess shows I have a sensitive too lol):p:
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                              • Profile picture of the author zerofill
                                Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                Some of my most successful sales reps are the rudest people I know. Being polite and deferential could cost you sales, because that is often taken as a sign of weakness.
                                The types of marketers that steam roll people don't last long actually...They make descent money for awhile and then disappear never to be heard from again...That tactic is useless in my opinion. Telemarketers have tried those tactics when they call me...I haven't had one come up with a good rebuttal when I start laughing my ass off lol. I can't help it for some reason...maybe it was all the punks I heard selling mortgages in the past...When I did some of that on the side.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Tiger
                    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                    Off to look for a "bozo filter" in this forum software...


                    Paul

                    PS: If that sounds rude, so be it. There are behaviors I wouldn't tolerate in my home. I see no reason I should tolerate them online.


                    Why not take the high road ? If you treat people with
                    dignity and respect, you feel better about yourself at the end of the day.



                    If a person says someone is being rude and then does the same
                    thing, doesnt that place them in the same group ? Of course it does.


                    The "pre-emptive strikes" just make for more war in the world,
                    nationally or personally. We need a lot more peace and a lot
                    less war.
                    Signature
                    We Get What We Settle For
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              • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
                I'm no too sure if the post count is an issue at all. Maybe it goes to some people's heads, but on balance, probably not.

                This is more about plain and simple human behaviour. I know it's just the way people are and I'm not naive enough to think that anything will change just because of this post.

                I don't really care if people lose their temper with me (not that they have) I'll deal with that if and when it happens. It's as a couple of people have eluded, when folk get unnecessarily angry or abusive, to me or anyone else, I make a judgement about them and I'd be less inclined to listen to or do business with in the future. Just my choice and my opinion.

                Other than that, when people are civil to each other, it just makes for a more pleasant forum experience

                Peter
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              • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
                Originally Posted by TOPGUN08 View Post

                I sometimes wonder what this forum would be like if post-counts were disabled.
                I'm curious as to why you would think post count is an issue for anyone. (It doesn't mean anything except maybe some people spend a tad too long on the forum.

                Kim
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            • Profile picture of the author Chipt
              Good points for discussion here I believe...

              I've also personally noticed some really unfair and unjustified [IMO] treatment of 'some people' here, while others can get away with murder doing the exact same thing... and some people can bend or break as many rules as they wish, while others must toe the line at all times...

              And these same 'aggressive' Warriors seem to base this on whomever made the original post to which they are responding/replying... and it's ok for some but not others...

              That said, I can see why and where people blast the idiotic forum spammers who on their first or second post put some assinine spam offer in the forum. Even then, though, IMO it's just much easier and much less waste of energy to just delete their idiotic post...

              I can also understand why new people here might ask a question that has been asked here at least a hundred times before over the life of this forum. Honestly, how would a new person know to search the archives etc. instead of just asking their innocent question?

              And if one person has ripped off other people here, I am all for setting them on fire right in front of everyone here. But alas, that violates the rules... and if it is truthful and can be proven, I really don't understand why that's against the rules...

              So -- other than the spammers who deserve the harsh treatment and the people who rip off other folks here, I guess I don't see what is gained by throwing someone else under the bus IF they don't really deserve it.

              Personally I think it embarrasses the original poster and makes the attacker look petty and childish...

              But that's just my opinion of course -

              Chip Tarver
              Signature

              Improve your online success permanently right now. Joint Venture Masters tell you the real insider info. Save $450 right now by checking out my *limited time* FCS WSO and change your JV success in a radical way permanently at http://www.warriorforum.com/forum/to...OPIC_ID=264511... and for less than $20 you can really save up to half your gasoline costs at www.CutYourGasCostsNow.com.

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              • Profile picture of the author Terry Hatfield
                From now on new rule all insults 2 lines long . . . oops this is one line.
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
      Not to mention many people will NOT do business with rude people.

      Best! :0
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  • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
    This is a dumb post and you're an idiot.
    Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
      Hehe, actually the main reason I see people getting blasted with one-liners is when they post something that has been beaten to death and could be answered with a 2 second search.

      Sure, it's not warranted, but neither is wasting everyone's time.
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      • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
        Its OK... That's the way some people are.

        We can not chage others, so we must change our outlook FOR OTHERS.
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        • I actually haven't seen too much of that here. Other places...whoa!! Watch out! I'm glad we're calling people on it if it's happening here, because this forum is SO much nicer than the rest of them out there.
          Signature
          -----------------------------------------


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        • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
          There are occasions where I don't 'pretty up' my language and I feel
          I might come across as cold at times. Not that I'm rude, well, at least
          I don't think I am.

          I understand the sentiment though - this forum is quite unique in that
          it is also a business venue, some people don't treat it as such.

          I think everyone should digest "how to win friends and influence people"
          Signature
          eCoverNinja - Sales Page Graphics & Layout Specialist
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          • Profile picture of the author Phil Jacobson
            I think that you had a lot of courage to write this thread. I have hit 100 posts (wow big deal) and a part of me (small part) already thinks I have the right to lambast people. I needed to hear this. Mind you, I am usually careful with my posts. I have learnt a lot about communicating and feel I have connected with a certain community here already.

            Phil
            Signature

            Why Drink Coffee only?

            www.GreenTea-Japan.com
            (Warrior Discounts)

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            • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
              This is an awesome post. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

              In the past two weeks that I've been posting here. I have responded, with venom, to what I felt were cruel and unnecessary remarks. I feel that I'm a great sport the majority of the time. However when I perceive that I'm under attack, I bite back.

              I think in forums, for many people, It's easy to hide behind words. In fact, some people here have barricaded themselves behind so much anonymity that it makes it even easier for them to be rude.

              That's why I keep my picture up. It's my way of keeping my accountability on the line.

              Whenever I reply to the actual subject that starts a thread. It's always with respect and occasional humor.

              But from now on, I will ignore (without being a pushover) what I perceive to be an attack, with a little more maturity. However, I won't shy away from an aggressive debate.

              This is a great forum in addition to being a wonderful place to build credibility in the IM world.

              So again, great post... a real eye opener.

              Sincerely,

              Marc
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              • Profile picture of the author jhongren
                This forum is like a big family and we treat one another with respect =)

                In fact, I have this feeling that the Big Brothers & Sisters are helping the newcomers out. =)

                John
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                • Profile picture of the author Lou Diamond
                  Hello,
                  I have a rule before I do a post on a forum or a reply to a email.
                  I read it several times before I hit the reply button.
                  This tactic has saved me many times from putting
                  my foot in my mouth.
                  Follow this rule and you will be safe.
                  Signature

                  Something new soon.

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                  • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
                    People can remember an offhand remark and hold a grudge against you for years...sometimes a lifetime.

                    I remember when I was just a young man a millionaire friend of mine said many times "you want to be nice to people you meet on your way up because they're the same people you'll meet on your way back down."

                    It pays to be polite and there's nearly always a positive way to express your opinions.

                    Kindest regards,
                    Andrew Cavanagh
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                  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
                    Originally Posted by Lou Diamond View Post

                    Hello,
                    I have a rule before I do a post on a forum or a reply to a email.
                    I read it several times before I hit the reply button.
                    This tactic has saved me many times from putting
                    my foot in my mouth.
                    Follow this rule and you will be safe.
                    I cannot tell you how often I compose a post, then say "aw... screw it" and just close the window without posting it. Most of the time, I am glad I did.

                    Brian
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                    • Profile picture of the author Jose Delgado
                      Originally Posted by LoudMac View Post

                      I cannot tell you how often I compose a post, then say "aw... screw it" and just close the window without posting it. Most of the time, I am glad I did.

                      Brian

                      I am 100% with you.

                      That always happens to me,

                      and whenever I do that, is because...

                      I think my post is either rude, or just flat out stupid.

                      (like this one.) :p
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                  • Originally Posted by Lou Diamond View Post


                    This tactic has saved me many times from putting
                    my foot in my mouth.
                    Lou,

                    What if you like the taste of foot?



                    (Apparently many people do...)

                    Michael
                    Signature
                    Know thyself...
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      • Profile picture of the author Dana_W
        There's always going to be new people coming on here who don't know how things work. And frankly, there's a few dozen main topics that people revisit here again and again. If nobody posted on those topics the board would be pretty empty.

        There's always new things to add to a subject, and internet marketing is continually changing and evolving, so what was good advice on a thread
        six months go may not be true today.

        Originally Posted by Kyle Tully View Post

        Hehe, actually the main reason I see people getting blasted with one-liners is when they post something that has been beaten to death and could be answered with a 2 second search.

        Sure, it's not warranted, but neither is wasting everyone's time.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
          Originally Posted by Dana_W View Post

          There's always going to be new people coming on here who don't know how things work. And frankly, there's a few dozen main topics that people revisit here again and again. If nobody posted on those topics the board would be pretty empty.

          There's always new things to add to a subject, and internet marketing is continually changing and evolving, so what was good advice on a thread
          six months go may not be true today.
          I'm not talking about issues that are 6 months old.

          I'm talking about topics that come up THE DAY AFTER a 10-page thread has finally run it's course.

          Topics such as "do long salesletters really work"... "what is a WSO"... "how do I get traffic to my blog" etc.

          Again, it doesn't excuse the behavior, but I do understand it.
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          • Profile picture of the author JFrost
            I agree with you Peter, I like positive
            Netiquette. Professionals know how to refrain from
            trench mouth behavior. Lets all remember to use good
            Netiquette
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            • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
              I get the impression from some posters that they seem to disagree with everything and mask it as "straight talking". lol it seems there is something wrong with everything for this people. They have issues, man, issues.

              Well, this is a just a forum for opinions. Some people treat it as their debating tournament. lol

              Fabian
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              • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
                Just yesterday I got some feedback from a client who said he bought my product after seeing how professionally I handled a rude and dismissive post.

                I got the sale and a great new client.

                The guy who made the post (and had a competitive product) didn't get anything except a bad reputation.

                I've heard these kinds of comments many times from people who've bought from me or hired me as a copywriter.

                It pays to be polite.

                Kindest regards,
                Andrew Cavanagh
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                • Profile picture of the author stevenwilson
                  You will run into rude people any just about anywhere.I feel any comment rude or not is good.
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                • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
                  Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

                  Just yesterday I got some feedback from a client who said he bought my product after seeing how professionally I handled a rude and dismissive post.

                  I got the sale and a great new client.

                  The guy who made the post (and had a competitive product) didn't get anything except a bad reputation.

                  I've heard these kinds of comments many times from people who've bought from me or hired me as a copywriter.

                  It pays to be polite.

                  Kindest regards,
                  Andrew Cavanagh
                  Yes, exactly my point Andrew. Being rude is bad for business, just as the contrary can be good.

                  Peter
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    • Profile picture of the author GrantFreeman
      Hey! don't you call me an idiot. Peter started it!!!


      Edit: Added 2 exclamation points to emphasize the worthless drama
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    • Profile picture of the author Asher
      Originally Posted by Kyle Tully View Post

      This is a dumb post and you're an idiot.
      You just proved him right. Heh.

      But I agree - there have been posts that I've read that are just plain rude in my opinion.
      I'm not going to name him but everytime I see his name/avatar, I just get ticked off
      because most of his comments are 2 sentences long and have no real content in them.
      Just very high-and-mighty statements. He's made 500 posts since July 2008 though.
      Almost all 2 sentences long. Okay, my rant's over and it isn't really related. Next!

      Asher
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  • Profile picture of the author MommyEnterprises
    I think you are goign to find rude people everywhere. I try to ignore any rude comments directed towards me unless it is coming from my husband, LOL!
    Signature

    Stefani
    Mommy Enterprises
    Helping Moms Make Money At Home $$
    http://www.MommyEnterprises.com

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  • Profile picture of the author Christie Love
    Originally Posted by Peter Bestel View Post

    I think this forum is great and in comparison to other places we're a fairly genteel lot, but...

    RANT: I can't help but notice how some people's answers to posts are just plain rude!

    I know that generating discussion is a key element to any good forum, but provoking arguments for no good reason just seems immature and unprofessional.

    There's an impatience that comes across occasionally with one-line retorts that are unnecessarily argumentative at best and downright abusive at worst.

    What possible purpose does posting like that serve?

    Now, I'm not against a good debate, and I can appreciate that sometimes debates can escalate into an argument if not handled well, but sometimes it seems that folk get 'mugged' for no good reason.

    From a personal perspective I have lost a degree of respect for people that can't seem to control their negative emotions and unfortunately this behaviour isn't confined to newbies. Some Warriors, both senior and new, demonstrate how to give constructive criticism and great feedback on a regular basis - they might be quite blunt and direct but they know that their words are heeded a lot more if they avoid being rude.

    So come on you guys, chill out a bit and take a few deep breaths before pressing that submit button. Sending it may make you feel better in the short term, but to others it'll just make you look petty and stupid.

    Peter

    Peter,
    I completely agree with you. While I understant that posting controversial opinions may get someone noticed a bit more on the forum, the blatant badgering that's been going on is something completely different. I feel so sorry for the people on the other end who are absorbing the back lash.

    There are ways to say things without being so blunt. My biggest issue is when a new person asks for help and instead of giving them the benefit of the doubt, they are being scolded for asking a question. These questions are the same questions that I had as a newbie.

    I understand that IM is a whole different ball park than any other business and most of us learn by actually researching on the web, which may be new to some also. But to tell a new person that "no one here will hold your hand" or "no one is going to help you, help yourself" is just unnecessary.

    I have found wonderfully helpful people on this forum with a big heart and the patience to help anyone who is serious and determined to learn.

    Yes, I've also noticed that new people are developing the same attitude as some of the more distinguished warriors with this type of demeanor. I actually had to catch myself as I was writing one post upon finding that I finally gained enough skills on a particular subject to provide input. However, I looked at myself and realized that I was becoming just like the people who were mean to me when I was new to the forum. When I was on the other side of this backlash, I felt belittled, stupid, dumb, whatever you want to call it ... all for asking someone for help.


    It's a shame that society has come to this. People forget where they once were. People forget that not everyone is fast learner as they are. People forget that people learn at different speeds.

    I think that some people feel that newbies will just post a question on the forum and leave... never to return. That's not true. Look at me. I'm still here and don't plan on going anywhere any time soon. I now attract Warriors with a different attitude, compassion to help others, and who welcome my many questions because they value my eagerness to learn.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tiger
    Originally Posted by Peter Bestel View Post

    I think this forum is great and in comparison to other places we’re a fairly genteel lot, but…

    RANT: I can’t help but notice how some people’s answers to posts are just plain rude!

    At times it is good to take a step back and remember the Golden Rule:

    Treat Others The Way You Would Like To Be Treated.


    It works well.


    /Steve
    Signature
    We Get What We Settle For
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    • Profile picture of the author Chipt
      Hey, Steve [and all] -

      Great point about the Golden Rule IMO...

      ... And I really wish I remembered who first told me this, but they quoted a new 'Platinum' Rule... which states:

      "Treat people the way THEY want to be treated and the way they would treat themselves."

      I am all for the Golden Rule and try to live by it for sure, but the added 'Platinum' version can cause a person to pause and think for a minute...

      All the best -

      Chip
      Signature

      Improve your online success permanently right now. Joint Venture Masters tell you the real insider info. Save $450 right now by checking out my *limited time* FCS WSO and change your JV success in a radical way permanently at http://www.warriorforum.com/forum/to...OPIC_ID=264511... and for less than $20 you can really save up to half your gasoline costs at www.CutYourGasCostsNow.com.

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      • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
        and the way they would treat themselves.
        Even masochists, Chip?

        A very good rule to live by generally, though.


        To add to Dana W's response to Kyle Tully, maybe newbies don't know how to search Google or the WF properly.

        I have a neighbour who spent 2 weeks searching the internet in vain for some very specialised information for her thesis.

        I found it for her in 15 minutes.

        Martin
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Chip,
        ... And I really wish I remembered who first told me this, but they quoted a new 'Platinum' Rule... which states:

        "Treat people the way THEY want to be treated and the way they would treat themselves."
        Tony Alessandra. His book, "The Platinum Rule," is well worth the investment of a few dollars at Amazon.

        Beats the hell out of "The Golden Rule." Would you really want a masochist to follow that in your case?


        Paul
        Signature
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        Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          I am pleased. There is an option in the user control panel called "Edit Ignore List." Add a user name to that list, and it will almost completely hide their posts from you.

          Peter may disagree, but I find that far more civil than arguing with someone with whom you have irreconcilable differences in beliefs, or who you'd just find annoying.

          As of now, there is only one person in my ignore list on this board. That makes exactly 3 people in the world whose communications I choose to auto-ignore. (The other two are extremist anti-spammers whose emails I delete automagically.)

          For the record, I'm probably in a dozen or more such "twit filters" myself. Doesn't cause me any discomfort at all. I recommend learning to use them. They're quite useful.


          Paul
          Signature
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          Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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          • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
            Banned
            [DELETED]
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            • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
              Oh you guys! You crack me up. I know you just staged that to be ironic!



              I doubt whether either Paul or Mike care what other folk think, but I reckon that demonstrates the point of this thread very well.

              The Ignore List is a great option if that's the only way you feel you can resolve the situation. It would be a very dull and unproductive community if we all liked and agreed with other.

              Peter
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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                Peter,
                Oh you guys! You crack me up. I know you just staged that to be ironic!
                Nope. Not even a little bit. At least not on my part.

                Mike is free to say and think whatever he chooses. The new software provides me a useful way to avoid being exposed to it, and to save us both arguing over things about which we'll never agree. I find that the single most excellent feature addition to the forum. That one feature sold me on using vBulletin for a new forum I'm starting. (Not a marketing board, mind you.)

                I wasn't kidding. There are only three people in the world I auto-ignore at the moment. Only one has been on that list for more than 2 months. He will never be removed. And, smartly, he doesn't care one way or the other.

                Old Usenet folks. We don't take killfiles personally.
                The Ignore List is a great option if that's the only way you feel you can resolve the situation. It would be a very dull and unproductive community if we all liked and agreed with other.
                Ain't that the truth!


                Paul
                Signature
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                Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  Dammit. I just re-read the thread and saw Kurt's comments about the ignore list.

                  That'll teach me to watch whose posts I miss.


                  Paul
                  Signature
                  .
                  Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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                  • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
                    Paul

                    I think I must be one of the others on your ignore list because I made the masochist joke before you

                    (or maybe it's just old age . . .?)

                    Martin
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                    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                      Martin,
                      I think I must be one of the others on your ignore list because I made the masochist joke before you
                      Ummm.... No. There's only one person on that list in the entire web. And only two others in the realm of email, neither of whom you're likely to know.

                      Telling the same jokes as me is hardly a good reason to ignore someone. Hell, you might get one before me that's worth stealing!


                      Paul
                      Signature
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                      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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                      • Profile picture of the author Italian Guru
                        Banned
                        [DELETED]
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                        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                          Do you guys seriously not have respect for each other?
                          That's irrelevant.

                          Mike's opinion of me is his business, and none of mine. My use of the ignore list should be read as meaning that, at the moment, I don't choose to read what he has to say. Nothing more should be inferred or implied by it.

                          It's an exercise in individual preference, and that is all you can safely assume about it unless told otherwise.

                          It's an old Usenet feature, which was called a twit filter, bozo filter, killfile, ignore list or ban list, depending on the software we used. It wasn't unusual for someone to put a close friend in the file for a short period if they got out of hand, as a way to avoid saying something they'd regret later.

                          Of course, there are other reasons. There is one person (not Mike, obviously) who's in my killfile for life. He's a misanthropic, racist xenophobe (yes, I'm aware that seems redundant), whose comments are so offensive to me that I choose not to pollute my brain with them.

                          The feature can be extremely useful. It's wise to consider carefully how you use it. Or respond to it. Ultimately, it's a matter of personal preference, and nothing more.


                          Paul
                          Signature
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                          Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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                        • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
                          Originally Posted by Italian Guru View Post

                          I was with the OP, Peter. I thought you guys were setting an example or bringing some humor.
                          I was under no illusion that they were anything but serious - I was bringing a touch of humour into it just to lighten the mood a little.

                          Peter
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        • Profile picture of the author Chipt
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Chip,Tony Alessandra. His book, "The Platinum Rule," is well worth the investment of a few dollars at Amazon.

          Beats the hell out of "The Golden Rule." Would you really want a masochist to follow that in your case?


          Paul


          Thanks, Paul ...

          I never want to act like something cool I heard way back is attributed to me, so I try to be careful and 'blind-attribute' it when I can't remember where I heard it... taking that one extra step so as not to appear to take credit for it.

          Tony is one sharp cookie, too.

          And my poor brain is chock-full of sometimes mundane info I have overloaded it with throughout the years. If I had a USB port in my head I'd go out and get another external hard drive immediately and offload some stuff...

          But hopefully and occasionally there is something good stored in my overloaded head, though, so I try to share anything others might find has some merit or applicability... regardless of whomever might have said it first.

          To do otherwise and falsely take credit for that cool idea would, as the thread here discusses, be rude IMO...

          Chip
          Signature

          Improve your online success permanently right now. Joint Venture Masters tell you the real insider info. Save $450 right now by checking out my *limited time* FCS WSO and change your JV success in a radical way permanently at http://www.warriorforum.com/forum/to...OPIC_ID=264511... and for less than $20 you can really save up to half your gasoline costs at www.CutYourGasCostsNow.com.

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        • Profile picture of the author Tiger
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Chip,Tony Alessandra. His book, "The Platinum Rule," is well worth the investment of a few dollars at Amazon.

          Beats the hell out of "The Golden Rule." Would you really want a masochist to follow that in your case?


          Paul

          The golden rule needs no improvment. Perfection cant be improved upon.


          Young children, nearly babies, understand the fairness of the Golden Rule.
          I have seen it.


          Its when people get older that they stop caring about obeying it, after they have been cheated a few hundred times, or have cheated others a few hundred ( thousand ) times. They almost always give in just to try
          and protect themselves from the onslaught of all the others who
          refuse to obey the Golden Rule.


          They launch those "pre-emptive strikes" against others and feel justified
          in doing so to "protect themselves".




          /Steve
          Signature
          We Get What We Settle For
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        • Profile picture of the author KenS
          All forums are like that.

          Part of it is the medium, that is, people feel more comfortable being jerks when you can't jap slap them.

          The other part of it is simply that we humans aren't meant to communicate via text. We miss a lot of visual and auditory cues when the voice and face are taken out of context with the words. This leads to a great deal of miscommunication and misunderstandings even when it is with people we normally know and have experience with.

          I saw a study a few months ago that showed that over 50% of all email correspondence was misinterpreted by friends. That should give IM people pause when dealing with your customers. If people who already know each other in the real world misunderstand each other in emails, imagine what it's like for our customers who don't know us personally and who already have their guard up.

          -Ken
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        • Profile picture of the author e-mail2u
          I use a rule 'if i don't have anything good/positve to say then don't say anything at all".

          karma has way of going in full circle, may be not today but sooner or later it will come back and bite you in the A**e.
          Signature
          Blackhat surveys | geoffreyfoggon | Free link shortening hide those affiliate links....
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        • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
          Quit your whining

          Just kidding []

          All seriousness, you never know who is watching.

          So my advice, which I don't always take heed to, is to always
          put your best foot forward.

          Jason
          Signature

          "Human thoughts have the tendency to transform themselves into their physical equivalent." Earl Nightingale

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        • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
          Obviously I have not taken the time to read everything... as this post is long and I like to automatically assume I know EVERYTHING just from reading the subject line...

          (How's that for an a-hole start up?! I'm sort of proud...)

          Anyway, here's my point:

          Forum dwelling bitch monkeys are the root of all evil and should be used to make you money. Take their satanic, hate dripping preachings and get everyone to rally around your point of view... It really does help sell a lot of products while keeping folks nice and polarized.

          I've seen this a bunch of times on my blogs... the SECOND somebody posts an idiotic-hate speech infused comment... the sales start coming in!

          You have to keep in mind that big silent majority out there... watching... learning... eating nachos and drinking wine while surfing ebay...

          Those people are smart enough to see through the pure stupidity of a "Key board cowboy" trying to act tough...

          So let them post, I say! Let them post all they want while the rest of us feign insult and our paypal accounts explode in the background...
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          • Profile picture of the author ExRat
            Hi Paul,
            What we often mistake as rudeness may be misunderstanding, because we are unable to see the nuances of facial expressions.
            That's because your huge orange moustache is covering up your face

            Nice way to make your point, BTW.
            Signature


            Roger Davis

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  • Rude, I'll give you rude.

    This post is just a bunch of bullsh$&

    Ha, just kidding!

    Good post, but I've just learned to accept the rudeness. I don't think it really phases me anymore!
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    "The successful man is the one who finds out what is the matter with his business before his competitors do"
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  • Profile picture of the author WinsonYeung
    Well, this is just part of human nature
    It is hard to change
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