Jobs can be fun. My job was fun, at least the way I set it up. Most people don't like them because it's a cramp on their lifestyle, or they can't make enough money, or have bad working conditions, etc.

I don't want a job because I've realized that there is an entirely different formula that you can use for earning money. Instead of trading dollars for hours, you can leverage your time and other's time and provide value to hundreds-thousands of people for the same initial amount of work. Thus, you're trading a fixed amount of time for magnitudes more money, in a way that (thanks to the lack of scarcity/tangibility on the internet) is a win-win for both you and the people you're trading your value to.

Once you understand that, it makes no sense to go back to a 9-5 linear job. Why do a 1 dimensional value trade when you could make far more for far less with a 2 dimensional value trade?

Not to mention all of the aforementioned latent benefits to your lifestyle.

I think your title is misleading, or is it the post...:confused:

I personally think people who are considering quitting their jobs and trying full time IM were going to quit their jobs regardless of what their next step was going to be.

well that is why there is a saying that goes like this...

"love what you do and you will never work another day in your life"

Most people don't love what they do... and so they use IM for a way out.

It is also harder in this day and age to find a job that you would love... jobs are scarce and our economy is not fit to make a living anymore.

So instead of relying on someone else to make you a living, it is now necessary for you to rely on yourself and take control of your own future in order to make a living... hence starting an internet marketing business

P.S. If you can find a J.O.B that you love doing every day for 40 years then good for you... but I would rather fail over and over to try and achieve my dreams than to never have even tried.

Cut what you make in a job by half (tax) and then what's left cut it again by half (gas, public transit, time commute, lunch, coffee, missed opportunities, parking fees, etc)

So, at $7.25 bucks per hour, you're really working for ONE DOLLAR per hour.

Its not a job, its a modern serfdom.

if you truly 100% love your job and it makes you happy there is nothing wrong with it, but for me being forced to do things I don't want to do isn't exactly my cup of tea.

I want to do what I want when I want, and I wouldn't have it any other way

I don't think having a job is a bad thing, in fact you do need to have a job. The question is, are you spending your time wisely?, doing something you like?, or are you just surviving waiting to win the Lottery ??

Some people love the dream of IM
Few people live the dream
Most people work to survive...

Well said Tedwood!

The reason most internet marketers squint at the idea of a mundane 9 to 5 job is because the job itself is probably crappy. When someone thinks of a job, they probably hate the idea of reporting to someone else and being told what to do.

If you, like you said yourself, get into some type of work that you actually give a shit about or are super skilled and/or are interested in..well then your work doesn't really seem like work. You actually enjoy what you do.

For me personally, I went to college (never graduated although I'm very close to) but decided that it wasn't for me. I'm more a free thinker, willfully independent, breaking the social norms type of person.

The thought of someone telling me what to wear, when to eat, when I could use the restroom, take vacations, go home, and so on just pisses me off.

If I had a job doing marketing/seo work for a nice agency like yourself, I'm sure I wouldn't consider it work either. However I would probably still "squint" at the fact that I'm being told what to do.

I think I'd eventually get sick of not being able to express myself creatively. When you work for yourself, you represent yourself and you run things on your own terms. When you work for someone else, regardless of how much you love your work, you still have to obey someone else' command and do as they say.

My two cents.

cheers!

I have read a great quote by someone, "Take something as a profession which you love the most. You will not have to work for the rest of the life". Hopefully a lot of marketers will be inspired reading this post.

I think a job is good - especially if you're making alot of money from it. But if you're working at the Burger King... you deserve a "make job sucks" membership card.

A good job can fund your internet advertising. Sometimes that's where you have to start to launch new ventures.

i dont know about other people,m but I hate having a boss. I am a leader not a follower. I cant stand taking orders or doing busy work....

Folks, I don't know what kind of "jobs" you all have but I just don't get the whole "take orders" thing. I've had a full time job in IT for going on 20 years and never once had to "take orders". I really don't mean to come off condescending or flippant but you must have some God-awful "jobs".

I'm willing to bet MOST jobs involve nothing of the sort "taking orders from the man". Where does this come from???

Hey there.

I worked in the digital industry from 1995 until 2012 - doing pretty much everything right from being a junior when i started right through to Art Director for one of the biggest design agencies in the world, working on some of the biggest accounts going.

The reason i tell you this is because i've seen it from both sides of the coin - working at the bottom of the ladder right through to running the teams doing the work.

I can tell you that unfortunately those little perks are designed to make you feel like you are lucky to work in such a place.

You'll be expected to work over time regularly for nothing with the knowledge that if you say no there is a que of eager people right behind you who'll gladly take your spot. Take a look around you in those kind of places - everyone is young... and it's not because only young people know how to do this kind of work, it's because no one in their right mind after a certain age will work under those kind of rules.

Now - i am not saying that it's not worth it. You will learn far more under that kind of pressure and in that environment than you could teach yourself. But don't fall into the trap of thinking you have it good and willing to work for less money or longer hours for the privilege.

When you got kids, bills and well down the path of life a pizza once a month or being able to drink coffee when you w'ton just won't cut it! I think as you get older priorities change - there's a turning point where you realise that trading your time for money is just not worth it and unfortunately by the time most realise it's too late.

You seem like a smart person. So keep this in mind and my advice is to use them as much as they will use you. Soak it up and use that knowledge to creat your own path.

If you want some real perspective on working in these places, take a read of this article.

The author was a very well known Advertising Creative in the UK who sadly passed away recently from Cancer.

He says it exactly like it is and ANYONE wanting to get into design, Advertising on Marketing should read it.

Take a read

A Short Lesson in Perspective

Good luck with whatever path you choose.


The highlight from that article is this:


This has come as quite a shock I can tell you. I think, I’ve come to the conclusion that the whole thing was a bit of a con. A scam. An elaborate hoax.

The scam works like this:

1. The creative industry operates largely by holding ‘creative’ people ransom to their own self-image, precarious sense of self-worth, and fragile – if occasionally out of control ego. We tend to set ourselves impossibly high standards, and are invariably our own toughest critics. Satisfying our own lofty demands is usually a lot harder than appeasing any client, who in my experience tend to have disappointingly low expectations. Most artists and designers I know would rather work all night than turn in a sub-standard job. It is a universal truth that all artists think they a frauds and charlatans, and live in constant fear of being exposed. We believe by working harder than anyone else we can evaded detection. The bean-counters rumbled this centuries ago and have been profitably exploiting this weakness ever since. You don’t have to drive creative folk like most workers. They drive themselves. Just wind ‘em up and let ‘em go.

2. Truly creative people tend not to be motivated by money. That’s why so few of us have any. The riches we crave are acknowledgment and appreciation of the ideas that we have and the things that we make. A simple but sincere “That’s quite good.” from someone who’s opinion we respect (usually a fellow artisan) is worth infinitely more than any pay-rise or bonus. Again, our industry masters cleverly exploit this insecurity and vanity by offering glamorous but worthless trinkets and elaborately staged award schemes to keep the artists focused and motivated. Like so many demented magpies we flock around the shiny things and would peck each others eyes out to have more than anyone else. Handing out the odd gold statuette is a whole lot cheaper than dishing out stock certificates or board seats.

3. The compulsion to create is unstoppable. It’s a need that has to be filled. I’ve barely ‘worked’ in any meaningful way for half a year, but every day I find myself driven to ‘make’ something. Take photographs. Draw. Write. Make bad music. It’s just an itch than needs to be scratched. Apart from the occasional severed ear or descent into fecal-eating dementia the creative impulse is mostly little more than a quaint eccentricity. But introduce this mostly benign neurosis into a commercial context.. well that way, my friends lies misery and madness.

His post, first one.

The first sentence.

It assumes the earning is income as opposed to revenue.

It also assumes that there is an income from a profitable venture. Maybe the business is going bankrupt and the owner has $0 retirement, no medical insurance, no life insurance, and she almost always was calling me to borrow money because she always owed the IRS thousands.

Well of course it assumes income. That's the whole context of the debate (job vs working for yourself). If you aren't making any money working for yourself, then there is no comparison. Sounds like semantics to me.

And even if he were "wrong", that still wouldn't diminish the fact that YOU are commenting on what it's like to have a job when you've admitted that you never held one yourself.

What are you talking about?

Bottom line: You commented on what it's like to hold a job when, in fact, you never held one (by your own admission).

That's what we are discussing here.

What false argument did I make??

and how can YOUR argument be "solid" when you've never had a "job"? We are venturing into absurdity now.

Hi everyone,

very good point!

I also love my job and it is not bad even
if it is not connected with Internet Marketing

So you can do both!

All the best

Erwin

arguing about the rules of arguing.

classic

I wouldn't want to go back to a day job, but I'd never trade the years experience I got when I did have one. It was invaluable in many ways.

Having a job is not inherently bad. It can be bad though, if in the job you have a boss that is a jerk, a long commute, and/or duties that are gross, boring, tedious, and so forth.

My opinion is we aren't born to spend a large part of our life doing something we clearly wish we didn't have to do. This is based on the opinion of the person in question. My brother works for a Bank doing PPI and loves the job he has, with a capped wage and willingly working overtime to the tune of 70-80 hours a week, but because he likes that he has a routine.

I'm different, I like the idea of having my own business providing solutions to thousands or millions of people. I also like the idea of being responsible for how much I make and that I'm in control of how well I do. The freedom it can give is also a huge benefit because I'm someone who likes to spend a lot of time doing new things I've never done or spending time with friends/family. My ultimate goal is to create enough capital to finally start the business I've always wanted to have which is within the PC gaming industry, and to go more niche within the eSports (Electronic Sports) community.

I want to provide a solution whereby eSports is more widely known and accepted by all demographics. I also want to allow hundreds if not thousands to earn an acceptable wage playing in daily/weekly/monthly tournaments competing against each other. I've experienced the perks that comes from playing as a professional PC player and travelling around the world competing vs teams from other teams, earning money and gaining fans that respected what you did, even if it had to do with gaming.

The problem right now is: making a significant income is only reserved for the most elite players (a huge minority, I'm willing to say below 0.1%), and currently the solution for making an income is being able to travel to events, but without sponsorships which is hard to get without results to backup you're worth sponsoring, you have to pay out of your own pocket to travel, putting more pressure on players to perform well, which usually has the opposite effect, due to no mindset training.

My solution will allow people to do this starting online, with the ability to attend events in future. I can help others make a wage giving away money for tournaments, whilst using monetization methods that will ensure the business makes more than it's giving out to players

Some jobs are good and some are bad. But some things they all have in common are (1) you're working at the direction of someone above you, (2) you're giving a lot of the money you earn to someone above you, and (3) your employment is at the whim of someone above you. Personally, I don't like any of those things as much as working at my own direction, keeping all the money I earn and knowing that no one can fire me.

Admittedly, not all personality types are the same. Some people just don't want to fool with all the hassles that come with being your own boss, and some people gravitate to the supposed security of working for a large company. But on balance, I think that if most people had actual first-hand experience working for themselves, with all the advantages that confers, they'd never go back to working for anyone else.

Having a job is a good thing. It gives you a stable income. That income will put food on your table, roof over your head, and if you learn to manage your money, it will give you money for investing in your future business. For this check out T Harv Eker and his material.

You just need to adjust your thinking. Working is a good thing. Running a business is also a good thing.

Business can give you more money that a job can. But it can also cost you a LOT more than you bargained for if you start out too big, or in a foolish way.

If you feel you don't have the energy to work on your future business after a day at work, the problem is not your job, it is your lack of dream skills and wanting time and money freedom badly enough. If that's the case check out one of Tony Robbins courses like Personal Power or something similar.

Keep working on your future dream...the only way to loose is to stop trying. Adjust your course and go at it again and again and again and again...and again until you learn enough from your failures to finally succeed.

~Olav

Very simple:

Because this forum is centered around online business and entrepreneurship, and entrepreneurs prefer to build their own fortune instead of renting out their time to build someone else's fortune (which is the very definition of a job).

Why would you allow someone else to write into a contract that you can only earn $xxx per year and sign it? (most job contracts have clauses that demand exclusivity and stipulate that you must not run or work in any other business whilst employed by them)

That's just madness and a self proclamation that this is all you are worth. If you are happy being comfortable in life you're probably pretty selfish and missing the point of life itself - to make a difference to as many other people as you can whilst you are here, which is what you can do when you run a business...

I heard something recently on the net. I do not remember whose words were those. They were "people do not quit their jobs,they quit their Bosses". I felt that was right. The Boss makes his or her life miserable that he or she does not have any other go other than to quit.

I don't take well to being told what to do by a boss. I need to be my own boss, doing my own thing, in my own time.

And that's why you like your job because you have make tea whenever you want and get some takeaway pizza once a month? I'm pretty sure most companies allow their employees to grab a drink when they need one and a lot of companies do the pizza thing now, last place I worked for would order in pizza or bring in donuts and cakes and things for us. I was even given a bottle of wine once for hitting a target. Didn't make me like the place any more, the actual job was still dreadful. I can't be forced to like being somewhere doing a job I don't have any passion for because of pizza once a month and a one off bottle of cheap wine.

There's more to life than hot chocolate and dominoes.

I see no merit in me working hard so others can get rich. This is why I find 'normal' jobs difficult.

I was never held in a job, never. And I am an advocate of owning your own business. But the truth is to keep the balance of the eco system, some people must do jobs for others.

A job can give you access to places/equipment that no business people can have with all their money. It can also give you social respect and power. But at the end there is no good return of a job.

That's my 2cents

Some people like having a job and getting their paycheck at the end of the week/month because they like the security and that is cool, everyone is different

Others like to do things a little different and they strive to be their own boss, manage their work load and would rather be in total control over how much they earn rather than having to wait for a promotion at work in order to get a pay rise.

The way you have to look at an Internet Business is you have the ability to build something which is way way more valuable than any job you could possibly have.

Think of it like this.

What do you think is more valuable?

An email list of 10,000 raving fans that buy anything that you put out and a solid brand online in which people seek you out to purchase your products?

Or a Job that pays you $100,000 per year?

Now ok, $100,000 per year sounds great but in order to make that kind of money in a job it will more than likely mean you have spent a lot of money and time on education and you are fairly high up in your company. This means you probably have a fair bit of responsibility and you are required to work at least 40 - 50 hrs per week (and sometimes more)

When you build your Internet Business you need to be building your asset...(your email list) and your brand, this is the only way in which you will build any stability in your online business.

With an internet business you are not simply working 8 hrs per day in exchange for a weekly wage. You have the ability to think long term and build a very profitable business as you progress which you could make far more money than any job could pay you.

I am a carpenter and builder by trade and for 3 years I was working from 8am - 6pm mon to fri then I went to the gym for 90 mins then from 8pm till 1 - 2 am every night of the week and also all weekends i would work on my internet business and learning the skills that i needed to push my internet business forward

With an online business, (as long as you are doing things right) you are building a long term asset which will continue to only get more valuable each and every year

With a Job you are very limited to the amount of money that you can make because at some stage you will reach the most you can earn in your company. Not to mention you have to be there each and every day trading time for money without actually building any asset because you could get fired from your job at any time.

As long as you set things up correctly you will never lose your online income and business because it is your asset.

All this being said, Jobs are fine and some people like having a job and that is cool.

All I will say if you're the type of person like me that hates being limited to what you can accomplish and earn then focus more on your business rather than just working in a job.

Since starting working online 5 years ago I have enjoyed every minute of it and that is not something i can say about any job i have ever had

Paul

It shouldn't be considered a "job" if you have a passion for what your doing.

Find that passion

Some people don't like authority. Some people don't like rules. Some people don't like being called in on what they feel should be their day off. The bottom line is regardless of what the job title is, people are paid to do what they're told to do.

It basically all boils down to lifestyle choice and what you're willing to endure to have what you want. I've know plenty of folks who are happy living off the grid in the middle of nowhere, growing their own food, and having little need for "income."

yeah well most who sell the IM dream involves quitting the day job and working at home. Granted working at home isn't all it's cracked up to be, especially if you have kids. You still have to be productive at home and spend your time doing activities that will create motion in making you money.

In other words, working at home and not having a day job is a different mind set than most folks are accustomed to. In a job, you put in the time knowing that you will get a paycheck. But when you work at home you have to only rely on yourself and spend your time wisely. So yeah it's a double-edged sword.

Jobs are bad. Very bad.

Bad.

Without jobs, people wouldn't be able to buy shit. Therefor, people who are self employed would no longer be able to buy shit either.

The reason having a job is bad, is because you're putting your fate in someone else's hands, you're putting a limit on your income and earning potential, and your only chance of succeeding is if you please whoever is making the decisions.

Additionally, If you look at concepts like communism and socialism, they bear an uncanny resemblance to most workplace environments; the "regime" arrogantly feels that they have all the power, and they feel like they have the right to tell you how to look, how to dress, how to act, how to behave, what to think; they strip you of your individuality, make you a servant to their regime, and they would, in many cases, replace you with a machine if it was cheaper.

Basically,They don't care about you, your life, your happiness, your hopes, your dreams, or even, in many cases, making a difference in the lives of their customers; all they care about is making money for themselves, and paying you as little as they have to so that you don't quit.

And when you have input or ideas that could make the world a better place, or that could help improve things,you're often not allowed to go about executing these ideas because the people at the top are the ones making all the decisions, and rather than innovate, and find new ways of doing things that make life better for everyone, they often just want to maintain the status quo, and do whatever will make them money... why would anyone want that?

Of course, this isn't all jobs, but a large majority of them.

In most jobs, everything the people in power do is for their own benefit, and they give little regard to treating the people who make their business what it is as human being, or seeing them beyond a utility to make the company function.

When most successful marketres "squint" at the face that people have jobs they're directing it towards people who are looking to leave an undesirable job and enter a more desirable work and life environment.

That's not to say that jobs are bad because there are so many awesome jobs out there that can open to your eyes to new possibilities and eventually help you to build your own brand(s).

The marketers you see are narrowing down to their target market more than trying to say every job is terrible. It's the connotation of the rat race... people don't want to be involved in a 9 to 5 boring existence if they don't have to or else they wouldn't be looking for an alternative.

Hi there,

I don't think having a job is bad! Jobs are needed and running an internet marketing blog/company is a job! I think most people complain about the 9 to 5 rules, the lack of freedom, the stress of having to commute, the work colleagues, the work itself not to mention your boss!

I hold 2 degrees, one in Politics and another one in Law from a good London University! I worked in a law firm for a few years and in the end, I wasn't happy! For so many reasons! Most people there weren't that happy either so I decided to quit! I didn't quit "just like that", I had prepared my transition by reading and studying Internet marketing and took a chance! Now, this one route that I am exploring now is giving me confidence, much more than when I was working at the law firm! And, ultimately, I am responsible for MYSELF! So, maybe it was also a way of becoming really MATURE!

Now, this said, I am not abandoning the idea of maybe working a job again! In fact, I want to keep on studying and my next stop will be a PHD! This means I could teach at some point but at the moment, I believe that Internet marketing is giving me what I want! Plus, even though I ever work a "normal job" again, I am 100% certain that I'll carry on with internet marketing, part-time at least! Instead of watching TV for instance, IM is a really good alternative!

Anyway, my 2 cents!

Yoan

"Never kill your golden goose. Golden Goose meaning what ever is bring in the most money. Once you feel you have two Golden Gooses you may then and only then kill one off if you feel it is needed to be happy"

Because jobs suck, lets face it.

This is what really ate me away for the few years I worked a real job after college.
It wasn't just the fact that I could barely pay my bills.
It wasn't just the fact that I was busting my ass and didn't have a dime to put in the bank.

It wasn't the fact that I'd tell myself everyday "this is what your parents want".

It was the fact that most my brothers, don't work what I'd call real jobs. 3 out of 4 of them, make between $120,000 - $400,000/yr.

One of them is in sales, and some would call that a job, but its barely a job.
If he goes out 3 days a week, to 6-8 appointments, and closes 3, he'll make around $3,000 that week for 3 days work. But let me rephrase, its not 3 days of work. Each appointment takes about 30mins-90mins of his time.

So its not even 2 full days of work if you count the hours.

My other brother, works at home maintaining servers for large corporations. He is a computer wiz. He gets paid a lot of money, to sit at home all day watching tv, taking care of his kids, taking trips to lowes, and occassionally watching his computer screen. He does work don't get me wrong, just in small spurts throughout the day. Its barely what I'd call work, and he makes a lot of money.

I won't even get to my other brother.

But focusing on those 2, one who is great at sales, another who is great at computers, lead me to believe if I quit my job, and blend their skills for my own use, I could make money.

So I got into marketing. And it was the best decision I could have ever made with my life. Thats all I can say. I just commonly hear this line thrown around here that you have to work hard to make good money, and thats utter bs.

Really think about it. Look at some of the richest people in the world, I don't even think they could spell the word "j-o-b". Some of them own 40 different companies and haven't stepped 1 foot into any of them. They just know how to do the research, and know how to invest their money in smart assets. They let their money work for them.

For me, I don't even care what you call it. Because I work long hours but still don't consider what I do a "job". Its about having control over my own life. The ability to work where I want, when I want. The knowledge that I love what I do, and actually have money in the bank. The knowledge that I'm building true assets for myself, rather than someone else. Its definitely work, I just don't like calling it a "job". Jobs are for slaves imo.

LOL I find it ironic you ask why so many folks HERE think having a job is bad. Many people here are looking to get away from their job, because they do not want to work for someone else...be condemned to someone's "to-do-list" and scheduling.

And that in my opinion could never be bad.

In my opinion jobs are not bad, but if you don't want to work for someone else then it just isn't for you...period. I don't down anyone for having a job, but for those that don't want a job I commend them for looking for other options, like online marketing.

However, people should be warned that not having a job does not mean that you will no longer work. That's just silly to believe. You do it right you won't have to work HARD and/or hard for long, but whether you work for yourself or someone else, you will have to put forth effort to get your desired output.

Disclaimer: I have had jobs before. I even got my 4 year degree to get a better job. I was "jobless" for 2 years then went back to work after graduating. I recently quit my job and am now "jobless" again. A job isn't for me...but I don't believe jobs in anyway are bad.

Because people grow up with dreams of doing certain types of jobs. Circumstances don't usually allow people this luxury. Some are forced to find jobs just to survive and before they know it, those jobs become permanent. It's true a dream can't be too far fetched, but to answer your question, people don't hate working, they hate the wrong types of jobs. And I'm sorry to say this, but people who have dream jobs and who are looking to build passive income while laying on the beach and never working again are the lazy type of people.

I do not believe having a job is bad. But I do believe it is more out there then 9til5 And a lot of people are turning to home-based business for a lot of different reasons. Me for one, would love to work from home full-time and believe me that day is coming.

Having a job is not a bad thing providing you like your job and you are earning sufficient income that you can live comfortably on. If you are on a good salary then you won't need to work lots of extra hours in overtime to keep your head above water.

People who have a job but who don't enjoy the circumstances outlined above are more likely to be unhappy with their employment and they then start looking around for alternative ways of earning a living.
They usually start searching online and that is when they read those persuasive sales pages selling them the online marketers dream lifestyle and that's what has brought most of us to the warrior forum.... will this be good or bad for you and will you reach your dream lifestyle..?

I don't think there is anything wrong with having a job. Sometimes having a job can serve as motivation to succeed online. Hating going to work will make you work that much harder to build your own business.

No matter how well you perform, how well liked you are, or how long you've been at a job, there's always the chance that it will be pulled out under you like a rug in this economy. Like the saying goes, don't put all of your eggs in one basket.

I've worked with high ranking executives who made 6 figures and were with the company for 20+ years that were let go when things got bad.

Despite what I felt about my previous 9-5 and not to toot my own horn, I was one of the most well liked and top performing people at my old job. Everyone said I should run the company (hahahah :p).

Of course, things got bad financial wise and I was let go last summer, but I was already making enough off IM by that point so I was incredibly happy to go. If I wasn't let go, I still would have been there earning 2x the income, but at least I was saved the trouble of coming up with a good excuse to quit.

Like I said before, more power to you if you love your job, but don't put all your eggs in one basket.

I'm sure some of you are familiar with this article: 10 Reasons You Should Never Get a Job