Sales pages that pi$$ you off...

63 replies
I wandered what you, as a customer hate...OK, that's a strong word...dislike about sales pages or e-product promotion in general. You know, just stuff that make you roll eyes when you see them on a sales page.

Oh, and let's make this a carefree discussion - no flaming and don't mention specific authors or products.

So I guess I should start...
  • Whiteboard drawings - you can see this on pretty much every sales page these days. You know - the usual from-zero-to-hero success story complemented with accelerated video of a hand drawing sketches on a whiteboard. It's an OK concept, but horrendously overused IMHO.
  • Success story - usually when product lacks in quality in substance, a good ol' success story is used to hype up a potential customer. I get it, people in general need a strong incentive to buy e-products so a short background story is OK - but I'm not buying a story, I'm buying a product so I need to know what it can to improve my online business.
  • Videos you can't skip - this is a huge turnoff for me. I guess I'm a bit old-fashioned - I like a classic sales letter, which I can read at my own pace, scan through the text and focus on things that I find important. Video presentations are OK as an alternative, an optional way of communicating USP to your customer. Video presentations that can't be skipped or fast forwarded are just a pain in the bum.
What about you guys?
#pages #pi$$ #sales
  • Profile picture of the author Warrior X
    And the reason you see the three thing above used all the time? Its because
    they work.

    Jeremy
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    • Profile picture of the author IMHypeless
      Thank you, good sir Jeremy. Gee, I was wondering why so many sales pages use those techniques.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TrustedCopy View Post

      And the reason you see the three thing above used all the time? Its because they work.
      Call me a skepchick, Jeremy, but I don't believe that at all.

      I think it's because so many marketers assume that the reason they're seen all the time is that they work, to the extent that they become self-perpetuating ... whereas in fact the comparatively few people who really are split-testing them properly are typically abandoning them.

      Exactly like so many other things in internet marketing, in other words.
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      • Profile picture of the author IMHypeless
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Call me a skepchick, Jeremy, but I don't believe that at all.

        I think it's because so many marketers assume that the reason they're seen all the time is that they work, to the extent that they become self-perpetuating ... whereas in fact the comparatively few people who really are split-testing them properly are abandoning them.

        Exactly like so many other things in internet marketing, in other words.
        I partially agree. But never underestimate consumers' sheep mentality. Plus, IM products in general are made for an average, greedy, lazy online ''marketers'' searching for the next big thing, the silver bullet/loophole/ninja/underground system.
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        • Profile picture of the author jenki1
          When they start off with when I was on my last $ then go on to show the big house and boat and tropical holiday and "you can earn $50,000 in 2weeks with this method"

          Sales pages that ramble on about nothing to do with the product.

          Videos I can't stop, start and rewind when I want to.

          Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh
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        • Profile picture of the author PatriciaS
          Originally Posted by IMHypeless View Post

          I partially agree. But never underestimate consumers' sheep mentality. Plus, IM products in general are made for an average, greedy, lazy online ''marketers'' searching for the next big thing, the silver bullet/loophole/ninja/underground system.
          Whew! Thanks for that heads-up. I guess you won't be seeing me as a customer.
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      • Profile picture of the author Warrior X
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Call me a skepchick, Jeremy, but I don't believe that at all.

        I think it's because so many marketers assume that the reason they're seen all the time is that they work, to the extent that they become self-perpetuating ... whereas in fact the comparatively few people who really are split-testing them properly are typically abandoning them.

        Exactly like so many other things in internet marketing, in other words.
        Point taken, testing is important. Many are just copying what they see
        others doing, and that's not alway a good thing.

        But you have to start somewhere building a sales page.
        And all those things have been tested and do work. Not saying
        they're implemented well by everyone who uses them. Some do
        them well, some badly.

        Whiteboards: The one below has been selling for years and years, same old animation.
        Get Lean Flat Abs with Free Tips to Lose Belly Fat

        Success stories have been used by direct marketers for about a century.

        Autoplay videos: easy to test this one, and it should be tested. But I'm pretty
        sure the data leans toward autoplaying in most markets.

        My opinions, for what they're worth.

        Have a great weekend,
        Jeremy
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Thanks, Jeremy - you also.

          (I don't seriously doubt that "success stories" work, by the way! But, for the record, every single instance of split-testing of autoplay video I've ever seen myself has shown it to be a disaster, and I know from my own subscriber feedback across 8 different, unrelated niches that it's the thing all my customer-groups most hate, and most quickly avoid, on a site).

          Related point (not quite the same point, admittedly): http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post7497537
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            As long as I have a functioning back button, there's very little about sales pages that I feel strongly enough about to "hate" or that piss me off. I just back out and go on my way. There is no product I need badly enough to jump through hoops that irritate me.

            Having said that, one tactic does come close, and that's hijacking my ability to leave a page without shutting down my browser. You want to try one exit pop to make a last ditch effort? Fine. You want to cascade them until I do shut the browser down? You've just earned a coveted spot on my "never buy from or recommend this seller" list.

            I even had a pop-under appear that wouldn't let me close it until I "liked" a page I'd never seen. They got around my pop-up blocker by...

            Nah, I don't think I want to post a clinic on how to either beat my pop-up blocker or force phony "likes by real people"...
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          • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
            As both a consumer and a professional copywriter, I'm NOT at all fond of videos that hide the time-line and controls.

            Now, I'm aware that hiding *can* work in many instances. However, I still think it's a mistake in the majority of cases.

            Why?

            For two main reasons:

            1) Because without a time-line, the prospect typically has no way of knowing how long the video is.

            This is a HUGE problem. Asking someone to invest 3 minutes of their time is *very* different than asking for an hour or more.

            People are busy; almost everyone attempts to budget and schedule their time.

            2) Without controls, the sale could ultimately be lost if the prospect receives even a single phone call. However, with visible controls, they could simply pause and resume.

            In my view, it's foolish not to hedge your bets against the likelihood of someone being interrutpted by simply providing the *obvious* ability to pause.

            That said, you'll find conflicting opinions on this topic. Some marketers are proponents of the "grab-your-prospect-by-the-throat" school of thought.

            But, in this "age of skepticism," I find that thinking outdated. I'd rather make it EASY for prospects to receive my sales message rather than trap, trick, or force them into it.

            -John
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            • Profile picture of the author retirewithsandie
              Originally Posted by Johnny12345 View Post

              As both a consumer and a professional copywriter, I'm NOT at all fond of videos that hide the time-line and controls.
              I don't like them either but understand they can & do work. If I can't pause it somehow I close the window & that sometimes will bring a page to show what they were hyping. But if I pause it, I come back later when the "hidden" offer has been exposed.

              I know for my day job there are things that annoy the heck out of me but that old "market research" says that that's what people want, even though some coming through say they don't. Can't win for losing sometimes *sigh*
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        • Profile picture of the author Rbtmarshall
          Originally Posted by TrustedCopy View Post

          ...

          Whiteboards: The one below has been selling for years and years, same old animation.
          Get Lean Flat Abs with Free Tips to Lose Belly Fat

          ...
          I immediately clicked the back button when they said it's not my fault. But then, I started thinking that this person he is targeting want to believe it's not their fault. and that is setting the emotional stage early for his target consumer.


          That video probably works because there is effort put into the story, and the animation is an actual storyboard, not an instruction sheet, or teachers chalkboard style of use.

          Also, that looks like an actual whiteboard drawing played back fast. Not the type used in most videos seen around here
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        • Profile picture of the author PatriciaS
          Originally Posted by TrustedCopy View Post


          SNIP

          Autoplay videos: easy to test this one, and it should be tested. But I'm pretty
          sure the data leans toward autoplaying in most markets.
          You know, I ran across one the other day, and let it play for a few seconds (normally I just close the darned tab without further consideration). It hit me like a ton of bricks how utterly arrogant that young man is to think he had the right to dominate my time, my speakers, and my attention in that way (or try to), as if what HE had to say was the most important thing in the universe and completely trumped whatever else was going on in my life, or my mind, or on in fact on my computer (I often have Pandora on). It's such a huge turnoff to me that, as I already said, I just close the page. Done!

          Other things I don't like:
          • Long sales pages
          • No price on the sales page -- and even worse, when you have to give your email address before you even go to the pay page to find out how much (this too usually causes me to close the page)
          • more than one OTO or upsell or downsell
          I'm sure there are others... but these are my hottest hot buttons.
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      • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Call me a skepchick, Jeremy, but I don't believe that at all.

        I think it's because so many marketers assume that the reason they're seen all the time is that they work, to the extent that they become self-perpetuating ... whereas in fact the comparatively few people who really are split-testing them properly are typically abandoning them.

        Exactly like so many other things in internet marketing, in other words.
        True. On some of my sites I'm going completely against the grain of what's supposed to work and seeing good results. Things change, people get used to seeing things in certain ways and become blind to them after a while, so changing things up a bit can have good effects.
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      • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Call me a skepchick, Jeremy, but I don't believe that at all.

        I think it's because so many marketers assume that the reason they're seen all the time is that they work, to the extent that they become self-perpetuating ... whereas in fact the comparatively few people who really are split-testing them properly are typically abandoning them.

        Exactly like so many other things in internet marketing, in other words.
        I couldn't disagree with this more, because all of the top marketers that I know NEVER make assumptions when it comes to sales pages or funnels. NEVER.

        They test everything and go with what works the best...period. And they never stop, even when they're making six or seven figures.

        It has nothing to do with personal preference, nothing to do with "Well hey that guy is doing it, it must be good", and nothing to do with what's "hot" in sales pages these days...

        It's about what makes them the most money.

        The most important point? They don't care about threads like these, where people whine about their pet peeves and how it's not fair that they don't get to fast-forward through videos or how they don't like whiteboard animation...:rolleyes:

        They aren't trying to please everyone. They are trying to please the largest percentage of buyers in their market...Savvy?
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    • Profile picture of the author thedanbrown
      Originally Posted by TrustedCopy View Post

      And the reason you see the three thing above used all the time? Its because
      they work.

      Jeremy
      Agreed Jeremy!

      No need for the rest of the responses haha that's part of the natural evolution of marketing, and there's always going to be haters who don't like your marketing or your message...

      Just gotta deal with it.

      The reason cartoons are used a lot is because subconsciously we associate cartoons with learning some of the first lessons we were taught in life so when we're watching subconsciously our mind enters a state of learning.

      This makes the sales message more deep
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  • Profile picture of the author John Rogers
    Originally Posted by IMHypeless View Post

    Videos you can't skip - this is a huge turnoff for me. I guess I'm a bit old-fashioned - I like a classic sales letter, which I can read at my own pace, scan through the text and focus on things that I find important. Video presentations are OK as an alternative, an optional way of communicating USP to your customer. Video presentations that can't be skipped or fast forwarded are just a pain in the bum.
    That's a sure fire way not to get my business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Maui Joe
    lol @ being pissed off by strategies that work
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Maui Joe View Post

      lol @ being pissed off by strategies that work
      lol @ people who say lol @ being pissed off by self-perpetuating beliefs widely and often mistakenly assumed to 'work' but all too often proven not to, when properly split-tested.
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      • Profile picture of the author Maui Joe
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        lol @ people who say lol @ being pissed off by self-perpetuating beliefs widely and often mistakenly assumed to 'work' but all too often proven not to, when properly split-tested.
        it's interesting you should say that seeing as how i've used two of the things you evidently hate, with great success. not only that I'm using them because I *gasp* split tested multiple strategies only to find out that supposed "overused" strategies work
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        • Profile picture of the author IMHypeless
          Originally Posted by Maui Joe View Post

          it's interesting you should say that seeing as how i've used two of the things you evidently hate, with great success. not only that I'm using them because I *gasp* split tested multiple strategies only to find out that supposed "overused" strategies work
          You may be the biggest split-testing guru in the universe, good sir, but your trolling skills are weak.

          This thread is not about what works, it's about what we, from consumers point of view, dislike about sales pages.
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          • Profile picture of the author Maui Joe
            Originally Posted by IMHypeless View Post

            from consumers point of view
            therein lies the problem
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
    Here's the problem I have with posts like this..

    Usually they are posted by someone who still is has a mindset of a buyer, not a seller.. a consumer instead of a producer... people who still think of marketers as "them" instead of "us".. I could go on, but hopefully my point is clear.

    Go into a store.. ask a customer what they like or dislike about sales.. then ask an employee or the manager the same question.

    Their initial response reveals where the personally place themselves: as the consumer, or the producer.

    Off topic: I often use this technique when interviewing someone. If they say they have management experience, for example, yet don't answer questions from a managers perspective.. well, let's just say they've revealed where the truely are in their careers..
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by jasonl70 View Post

      Here's the problem I have with posts like this..

      Usually they are posted by someone who still is has a mindset of a buyer, not a seller.. a consumer instead of a producer... people who still think of marketers as "them" instead of "us".. I could go on, but hopefully my point is clear.

      Go into a store.. ask a customer what they like or dislike about sales.. then ask an employee or the manager the same question.

      Their initial response reveals where the personally place themselves: as the consumer, or the producer.

      Off topic: I often use this technique when interviewing someone. If they say they have management experience, for example, yet don't answer questions from a managers perspective.. well, let's just say they've revealed where the truely are in their careers..
      Jason (and anyone who posts a less eloquent jab about 'marketers bitching about marketing'), to be fair, the OP specifically asked for opinions from a customer viewpoint. And that's what he's getting.

      I simply put out an idea of something that would preclude a seller from getting my business. Since it is a personal opinion and a personal reaction, it only has meaning to the extent that I represent the typical buyer. At this point in my life, I probably don't, at least when it comes to sales tactics.

      As someone mentioned in another thread on a similar topic, you have to start somewhere. You have to have a baseline or control to test against. Maybe you start by leaving out the things your potential customers say they don't like, and let their behavior put the lie to it as you try different things.

      Seems to me that using a tactic just because someone (or a bunch of someones in a monkey-see-monkey-do arena like this one) uses it or claims it works is just as ignorant as not using it because someone says it doesn't work.

      So go ahead and look down your nose at people trying to avoid potential mistakes as they seek to get where you are now...

      And just to be fair, since that's what I'm trying to do here, your comment about the interview question is spot on. A bit off topic, but spot on nonetheless.
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    • Profile picture of the author IMHypeless
      Originally Posted by jasonl70 View Post

      Here's the problem I have with posts like this..

      Usually they are posted by someone who still is has a mindset of a buyer, not a seller.. a consumer instead of a producer... people who still think of marketers as "them" instead of "us".. I could go on, but hopefully my point is clear.

      Go into a store.. ask a customer what they like or dislike about sales.. then ask an employee or the manager the same question.

      Their initial response reveals where the personally place themselves: as the consumer, or the producer.

      Off topic: I often use this technique when interviewing someone. If they say they have management experience, for example, yet don't answer questions from a managers perspective.. well, let's just say they've revealed where the truely are in their careers..
      This thread is created from a consumer POV and as I mentioned in first post ... And I don't have to remind you about the WSO section of this forum. Not every member of WF is only a seller. Furthermore, a lot of newbie marketers start from WSO section. So yeah, you're damn right there's a lot of people with buyers mentality here.

      And it's not about ''we'' against ''them''. Most of us are both buyers and sellers.

      I personally use various techniques to hype up my visitors/potential buyers. And I'm don't have a problem admitting it. Heck, I wish less people are hype gobbling drones, but that's not the case.

      So yeah, I get it that we, the marketers, should give them what they want. I understand that hype works.

      The point of this thread is to initiate more of these "consumer POV" discussions since they can be beneficial both to buyers and sellers.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeff Williams
        Originally Posted by IMHypeless View Post

        I personally use various techniques to hype up my visitors/potential buyers. And I'm don't have a problem admitting it. Heck, I wish less people are hype gobbling drones, but that's not the case.
        So, only your IM blog is hypeless?
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    • Profile picture of the author LarryC
      Originally Posted by jasonl70 View Post

      Here's the problem I have with posts like this..

      Usually they are posted by someone who still is has a mindset of a buyer, not a seller.. a consumer instead of a producer... people who still think of marketers as "them" instead of "us".. I could go on, but hopefully my point is clear.

      Go into a store.. ask a customer what they like or dislike about sales.. then ask an employee or the manager the same question.

      Their initial response reveals where the personally place themselves: as the consumer, or the producer.

      Off topic: I often use this technique when interviewing someone. If they say they have management experience, for example, yet don't answer questions from a managers perspective.. well, let's just say they've revealed where the truely are in their careers..
      Even if you do consider yourself a marketer, though, isn't it the consumer's opinion that ultimately matters? If you create a sales page that other marketers admire but that turns off prospects, what good is that?
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      • Profile picture of the author Thomas Belknap
        Banned
        Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

        Even if you do consider yourself a marketer, though, isn't it the consumer's opinion that ultimately matters? If you create a sales page that other marketers admire but that turns off prospects, what good is that?
        Testing is the only thing that will tell you the answer to questions like the OP's.

        Asking people what they dislike will waste your time.
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        • Profile picture of the author Maui Joe
          Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

          Testing is the only thing that will tell you the answer to questions like the OP's.

          Asking people what they dislike will waste your time.
          exactly .
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  • Profile picture of the author GSX
    The ones that frustrate me the most are when you click to close the tab or go back, a dialog box pops up that says something like "Wait, don't go!!! For a limited time only, you can now get this product for $9.99 instead of $19.99, plus this free crappy bonus!". Then you close that one and another one pops up saying something like "But wait, there's more! How about only paying $4.99 plus 2 crappy bonuses?!?"

    Terrible approach to take, I'd hate to see how these people treat customers AFTER they buy if they're this bad even before they buy.
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    I don't like the sales pages that don't convert for me. Not too fond of those.

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  • Profile picture of the author Gordon P
    Originally Posted by IMHypeless View Post

    • Videos you can’t skip – this is a huge turnoff for me. I guess I’m a bit old-fashioned – I like a classic sales letter, which I can read at my own pace, scan through the text and focus on things that I find important. Video presentations are OK as an alternative, an optional way of communicating USP to your customer. Video presentations that can’t be skipped or fast forwarded are just a pain in the bum.
    Not only videos you can't skip, but videos where you nearly get a heart attack because of the sound volume. This is a thing that 90% of the time gives me a reason to leave the site.
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  • Profile picture of the author markethealth02
    How many people actually split test the conversions with sales videos compared to traditional sales letters?

    Personally Im a fan of sales letters.
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  • Profile picture of the author brentb
    I really hate 2 of your 3 complaints.

    I don't mind the white board if done correctly and it is a bit over used.

    Videos that can't skip, I instantly leave, or if I really want to see what is past it, I turn my volume off, minimize it, open another browser window, come back 15min later. But not because I wan't to buy, usually just to look at what their product is in the first place. Since the videos are SOOO SLOW to tell you what they are selling... ("Look at my lifestyle, don't you want a nice car... blah blah").

    Success stories are too much, just a few quotes from satisfied people are more than enough.

    Lastly, anyone who uses an ugly javascript pop up should just delete their whole site! Why not use an attractive on page lightbox element? I usually a JS pop will not out perform a Lightbox if you do it right so I never even bother using them anymore. Plus its more user friendly in that it does not block browser actions at all. Also lets you get approved for lots of ad networks that won't link to pages with JS pop ups.
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  • Profile picture of the author Simiv68
    I personally don't like the extremely long sales pages. I don't need all the convincing that the product is going to change my world by the time I wake up tomorrow. Tell me the benefits, price, and guarantee and I will decide from that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    I don't mind the white board if done correctly and it is a bit over used.
    In my day to day surfing of the web it's not something I see that often. I only occasionally see it used in the IM world.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ttrain
    I haven't tested this on a sales pages yet, but I've noticed an 80%+ opt-in rate for one of my squeeze pages after giving it a more professional look. It might even be a bit over designed for a squeeze page but visitors seem to appreciate it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gengis
    I personally don't like the videos that you can't control.
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  • Profile picture of the author ymest
    Anyone sitting on a beach with a computer saying " I made xxxxxx -usually lots of zero- from Coppacabana this morning! And so Can you! Sign up to find out the SECRET! Baaaahahha! And, yes there are lots of them! Who goes to the beach with a computer anyway? Sand in the keys??? Hello???? Common sense!

    Ok, rant over!
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    • Profile picture of the author Dustin Lyle
      It makes me giggle when a marketer critiques a sales/squeeze page from the view of a marketer...
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      • Profile picture of the author Rbtmarshall
        Originally Posted by Dustin Lyle View Post

        It makes me giggle when a marketer critiques a sales/squeeze page from the view of a marketer...
        It is kinda funny. But when the target market is marketeers, it's inevitable by an aware consumer.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Hugall
        I HATE those scripted actor CB products. You know the ones. I can't stand them and I will usually reply to anyone who send them to me. I have no need for those videos and people that make them are on my s*** list!!!!! I got a top secret script from a guy who used to work at Google and he gave it to me to help out.......... Now I am a millionaire and I want to help you live this dream. I can't stand that guy or girl.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post

          I couldn't disagree with this more, because all of the top marketers that I know NEVER make assumptions when it comes to sales pages or funnels. NEVER.

          They test everything and go with what works the best...period. And they never stop, even when they're making six or seven figures.

          It has nothing to do with personal preference, nothing to do with "Well hey that guy is doing it, it must be good", and nothing to do with what's "hot" in sales pages these days...

          It's about what makes them the most money.

          The most important point? They don't care about threads like these, where people whine about their pet peeves and how it's not fair that they don't get to fast-forward through videos or how they don't like whiteboard animation...:rolleyes:

          They aren't trying to please everyone. They are trying to please the largest percentage of buyers in their market...Savvy?
          Fair point about "top marketers", but there are an awful lot people who want to be top marketers without putting in the testing. They see Joe Gooroo do something on a landing page for a pre-launch and they want to do it, too. After all, if Joe Gooroo does it, he must have tested it, right?

          Which brings up the question...

          How do you know you saw the 'winning' side of the test?

          If Joe is running a multivariate test with 27 different combinations, how do you know you aren't seeing the 25th most effective combination?

          Answer - it doesn't matter if you're testing things on your product, your visitors, etc. If it works better than not doing it, cool. If it doesn't, then you know, and you can try something else.
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          • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post


            How do you know you saw the 'winning' side of the test?

            If Joe is running a multivariate test with 27 different combinations, how do you know you aren't seeing the 25th most effective combination?
            There are 2 reasons why I know these marketers are testing and going with what works the best:

            1)I'm privy to insider access on the results of certain CB vendor's campaigns and testing. This includes directly assisting a top-20 vendor run split-tests through Optimizely.

            2) When one of these sales pages which I know are owned by guys or companies who test everything stays the same for a prolonged period of time, it's usually a pretty good sign that they've found a winning formula.

            A great way for ANYONE to find out a good place to start with their own sales pages is to monitor the top sales pages for a prolonged period of time. Then, take some hints from what they're doing for your initial setup, and begin testing and tweaking.

            Anyways it's a moot point, and these threads are worthless. Smart marketers test, they don't blindly emulate, and they certainly don't make business decisions based on the pet peeves of how certain people on an IM forum "don't like videos [they] can't rewind" or anything like that...
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            • Profile picture of the author Rbtmarshall
              Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post

              There are 2 reasons why I know these marketers are testing and going with what works the best:

              1)I'm privy to insider access on the results of certain CB vendor's campaigns and testing. This includes directly assisting a top-20 vendor run split-tests through Optimizely.

              2) When one of these sales pages which I know are owned by guys or companies who test everything stays the same for a prolonged period of time, it's usually a pretty good sign that they've found a winning formula.

              A great way for ANYONE to find out a good place to start with their own sales pages is to monitor the top sales pages for a prolonged period of time. Then, take some hints from what they're doing for your initial setup, and begin testing and tweaking.

              Anyways it's a moot point, and these threads are worthless. Smart marketers test, they don't blindly emulate, and they certainly don't make business decisions based on the pet peeves of how certain people on an IM forum "don't like videos [they] can't rewind" or anything like that...


              all that proves is you know why one vendor goes with the ad they currently have as their control.


              which could change tomorrow
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              • Profile picture of the author Cool Hand Luke
                Originally Posted by Rbtmarshall View Post

                all that proves is you know why one vendor goes with the ad they currently have as their control.


                which could change tomorrow
                Wrong. It shows that I can use basic logic and common sense.

                I think it's pretty fair for anyone to assume that if marketers who they have seen split-test endlessly and pour thousands into their campaigns for months and years decide to stick with a single sales page design with no variants for months at a time, that the page is probably working for them... THUS, it's worth trying out some of the things they are doing with their sales pages for your initial setup.

                Again, testing is the answer, but you have to start somewhere, and modeling those who are making millions of dollars? Probably a pretty good place to start, don't ya think?
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                • Profile picture of the author Rbtmarshall
                  Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post

                  Wrong. It shows that I can use basic logic and common sense.

                  I think it's pretty fair for anyone to assume that if marketers who they have seen split-test endlessly and pour thousands into their campaigns for months and years decide to stick with a single sales page design with no variants for months at a time, that the page is probably working for them... THUS, it's worth trying out some of the things they are doing with their sales pages for your initial setup.

                  Again, testing is the answer, but you have to start somewhere, and modeling those who are making millions of dollars? Probably a pretty good place to start, don't ya think?

                  I had to go back and re-read your threads.


                  I see what you're saying, but you are talking about a small segment of the IM crowd. According to your wording you said "All the top marketeers..."

                  It seemed like you are arguing that other posters testing is irrelevant because it didn't match the test results you have observed from others. And that is where it didn't make sense
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  • Profile picture of the author Rbtmarshall
    Well people sell whiteboard services, so their marketing make you think it works when you search for information on them.

    But many whiteboard animations suck. They're just doing it wrong. The animation doesn't flow well with the sales copy, and the hand can turn out to be a distraction.

    The same style voiceovers. I don't know how to explain it, but the simple carefree 20something male did I mention simple narration of the voiceover. I've heard a similar sounding voice on commercials, and I think that is why people use them. But when its narrating a typical WSO style sales letter, it's really ridiculous.
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    Sales techniques that work on one demographic may not work on another. It is your responsibility to split test and see what works for you, rather than just doing what you see others doing. Often times, you will find the tactics that annoy you the most are actually the best converting tactics.

    With that being said, the IM niche is one of the hardest to sell in. The reason is because you are trying to sell to other marketers that already know your tricks, upsell techniques, sales letter formats, etc. It's like a magician performing in front of other magicians.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EWZobT4kdM
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  • Profile picture of the author nicholasb
    I highly dis like sales pages with picture of mansions fancy cars, money falling from the sky, an obvious cheesy actor, and anything that promises overnight riches with no effort of 5 click softwares.
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    • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
      Originally Posted by nicholasb View Post

      I highly dis like sales pages with picture of mansions fancy cars, money falling from the sky, an obvious cheesy actor, and anything that promises overnight riches with no effort of 5 click softwares.
      The four click ones are so much better. They require 20% less clicks.
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      • Profile picture of the author Thomas Belknap
        Banned
        If you are asking because of curiosity, then this belongs in the off topic section or post the rant on your blog.

        If you are asking because you want to know as a seller, you are asking the wrong questions.

        When you sell enough, you come to the realization that you will piss off people no matter what you do.

        It is unavoidable.

        Customers will say a lot of stuff but to truly know what works is when a customer actually hands over their money.

        So, as a seller, stop asking questions like this and start testing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Josh MacDonald
    Videos that you can't stop buffering.
    Page that you can't close without a pop-up.
    On page music or voice that you can't stop.
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  • Profile picture of the author edd666666
    I also hate long sales letters, come on people learn to summarize the benefits of your product, we "get" it.
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    Sorry... thread of fail. Cueball has it right again.

    Not sure what the point of the op is because it just comes across as a rant instead of anything constructive.

    Trying to apply logic to what are mainly emotional buying decisions is folly IMO.

    There is no one size fits all when it comes to sales copy - and as mentioned - you will never please everyone... otherwise someone would have hit 100% conversions by now.

    I also believe that because we are in this business, we are not well placed to give an objective view. we know all the tricks... the scarcity, the countdown timers etc.

    So it is nigh impossible to be objective. The only way to get real answers is to ask people outside of IM.


    Sal
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    • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
      Originally Posted by edd666666 View Post

      I also hate long sales letters, come on people learn to summarize the benefits of your product, we "get" it.
      no, actually.. I think you probably don't get it. Otherwise you would understand the problem with this

      Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

      Even if you do consider yourself a marketer, though, isn't it the consumer's opinion that ultimately matters? If you create a sales page that other marketers admire but that turns off prospects, what good is that?
      No - the consumers decision to purchase is what ultimately matters.

      One very important lesson I've learned over the years, off line and online:

      What people say they respond to, and what they actually respond to, are often 2 very different things.


      While I agree with Alexa that there's a ton of people who blindly do what others are doing, who in turn are just blindly doing what some one else did (all of whom are usually implementing it incorrectly -such as long sales copy), there ARE people who actually study and test things and implement with knowledge.

      For example: I also hate auto-play video. I truly hate it. But the few times I have tested it on some video-only squeeze pages, it converted much better than requiring someone to hit play. So auto-play video is what stayed on those pages.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ben Gordon
    What we dislike? Since when has marketing been about us?

    Marketing is based on the market. All these sales techniques are used because they work. We are a very small fraction of the actual market. Trust me, there are a ton more people that these sales pages appeal to and convert.

    Stop thinking you're the market and start thinking from the point of view of your actual customers who are going to purchase your product. Just because it doesn't convert you doesn't mean it can't convert your customers. I've seen so many mistakes marketers made due to poor research of their market.
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  • Profile picture of the author rmolina88
    Like most people said, I despise auto playing videos with no control display.

    Luckily, you can pause most of them by clicking on them, but they're still annoying.
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  • Profile picture of the author scrunchie
    I hate the same things that most people on this thread do.

    Autoplay video (Grr!), videos with no controls or timeline (bigger GRRR!) and videos that you can't skip.

    I'm a reader. I much prefer text.
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  • Profile picture of the author Henry B
    I personally don't like Sales Pages that have 50+ testimonials at the top of their sales page before you can see what the product is all about.

    You end up scrolling down half the page to see the sales copy. To me, it seems out-of-order.

    I rather see the testimonials at the bottom to support the sales copy. Just my personal preference...
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  • Profile picture of the author robestrong
    Originally Posted by IMHypeless View Post

    • Videos you can't skip - this is a huge turnoff for me. I guess I'm a bit old-fashioned - I like a classic sales letter, which I can read at my own pace, scan through the text and focus on things that I find important. Video presentations are OK as an alternative, an optional way of communicating USP to your customer. Video presentations that can't be skipped or fast forwarded are just a pain in the bum.
    What about you guys?
    I definitely don't agree with the other two, but this one is a KILLER. Whenever I see one of these videos I normally click close because most of the time they have a popup that will direct me to where I can read about/BUY the stuff which is what I'm there to check out anyways.

    If it closes then I just leave, or hack the page. Very little is worth me waiting $10 to be sold on.
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  • Profile picture of the author GuybrushT
    I still get very annoyed about those exit popups, especially when there's more than one of them. It just feels so desperate...
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  • Profile picture of the author geekology
    Other than the video thingie mentioned above ... I hate

    "From the Desk Of..." - At the start of those sales letters. Smells like some email from Nigeria
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