Do you guys use "loops" in your emails?

31 replies
I've been using a technique in all of my emails lately that has shot up my open rates drastically. What I am using are called "loops". I will explain what these are a little further down in this post.

I actually ran a test on all of this and was actually amazed how well these "loops" work in email marketing.

I'll tell you the results of that test in a second.

But first...What are these loops?

Open loops are thoughts or ideas you introduce to a reader but don't finish them till later. Your brain is programmed to want to know the start and end of things.

So until you finish whatever you were telling them, they'll have that thought or idea stuck in their head. Once you close it, they forget it like magic. Pretty weird, but awesome if used correctly!

Nested loops are several open loops or new stories that you introduce to them. Similar to the movie Inception where they talked about the whole 'dream within a dream' concept.

I wanted to try these loops in my autoresponder sequence and see how much I could increase the engagement of my subscribers. After writing 6 or so emails where I introduce several open and nested loops my open rates went from a low 3-5%, all the way up to a 14% open rate which is almost unheard of in the industry.

Pretty awesome results :-)

I have a few questions on how to incorporate these loops in my broadcasts.

I was wondering if I:

1. Should make a email series where I use open and nested loops? Similar to what I did with the AR sequence.

Or...

2.
Should I write it so there is a open loop in the beginning of the email and then that loop is closed by the end of the email?

3. Any other tips on making the most out of these loops in my email marketing would be appreciated


P.S: I used an open loop or two in this message. I don't know if you caught it or not :-P
#emails #guys #loops
  • Profile picture of the author drewfioravanti
    I don't use them as well as Andre, but I do use them. I am not as good of a story teller as him, either. It's probably because I don't write 5 emails at a time...which I really should.

    A broadcast is not really a place to leave an open loop unless you are going to close it in another broadcast...I guess like he would do with a PLR. So...it can be done but it can't be long term I wouldn't imagine.

    Otherwise it would be competing with your AR, and you can't pick it up in your SOS because everyone will be at different points.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7666474].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author LillySage
      Hm, seems pretty interesting...I haven't really tried loops before, but I'm going to start now!
      Signature

      Get my 149-Page Kindle Publishing System WSO FREE TODAY...FREE WSO TODAY!

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7666481].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Edwin Torres
        Originally Posted by drewfioravanti View Post

        I don't use them as well as Andre, but I do use them. I am not as good of a story teller as him, either. It's probably because I don't write 5 emails at a time...which I really should.

        A broadcast is not really a place to leave an open loop unless you are going to close it in another broadcast...I guess like he would do with a PLR. So...it can be done but it can't be long term I wouldn't imagine.

        Otherwise it would be competing with your AR, and you can't pick it up in your SOS because everyone will be at different points.
        Andre was actually the first guy I learned about loops from.

        Instead of a full on SOS sequence, can't one just say a story while incorporating an open loop inside of it, and then by give them a link which has the answer to the open loop? Thus the loop is closed?

        LOL that sounded so confusing reading it back

        Originally Posted by LillySage View Post

        Hm, seems pretty interesting...I haven't really tried loops before, but I'm going to start now!
        Write a few practice emails to get the concept down
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7666503].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author drewfioravanti
    Yeah...I think that is what the "Product Launch Sequence" is about. Are you still a AR Madness customer? I am pretty sure it is a lifetime thing. I know I am going through the updated version that was just released after I went through the last one.

    Basically it is a 3 email sequence culminating in an offer...if I remember correctly.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7666524].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Edwin Torres
      Originally Posted by drewfioravanti View Post

      Yeah...I think that is what the "Product Launch Sequence" is about. Are you still a AR Madness customer? I am pretty sure it is a lifetime thing. I know I am going through the updated version that was just released after I went through the last one.

      Basically it is a 3 email sequence culminating in an offer...if I remember correctly.
      Yeah but the product launch sequence is only for products right?

      The only bad thing about the course is he doesn't really imply what to do once their done with the autoresponder sequence.

      He only talks about product launch sequences.

      Did he ever mention how much to use them?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7666546].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author drewfioravanti
    Yeah...you've got it right. I mean, his last email would close the loop and say here is the product.

    It doesn't have to be a product, it can be anything. You were basically promoting the click the whole time.

    But...what would you send them to if not a product? A squeeze?

    I like the way you are thinking...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7666557].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Edwin Torres
      Originally Posted by drewfioravanti View Post

      Yeah...you've got it right. I mean, his last email would close the loop and say here is the product.

      It doesn't have to be a product, it can be anything. You were basically promoting the click the whole time.

      But...what would you send them to if not a product? A squeeze?

      I like the way you are thinking...
      Are you saying to do a product launch sequence for a squeeze page only? I don't think it'd be worth it in all honesty because you're just getting a subscriber, not a sale.

      Also, I need to start doing some PLS's but it takes a bit of time to write the emails but I bet they're super profitable.

      Besides doing PLS's he doesnt explain what to do in terms of broadcast. I contacted support but they havent replied yet so I dont know

      What're you doing?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7666586].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author stephenwaldo
    Ha, I definitely noticed your open loops throughout the OP – very well done.

    This is an excellent tip for any e-mail marketer, and I also can personally attest to its power. I've never called the technique "looping", but I do make a point of carefully crafting my transitions at the beginning and end of every e-mail.

    In my experience, the beginning of an e-mail determines how much of it a subscriber will read, while the end determines whether or not they will read the next one.

    So, at the end of all of my e-mails I deliberately leave my subscribers with a question. Then, I blatantly tell them that I will answer it in the next e-mail, sometimes even the giving them the next subject line so they can watch out for it.

    Really, when you think about it an e-course is actually just a really big loop. I definitely attribute that as the reason I get such awesome open rates.

    Speaking of, I don't know what the average open rate is in my industry, although I know it's higher than most. None the less, the list I spend the most time working on gets a minimum 40% open rate according to Aweber's stats, and I think that's pretty dang impressive.

    Again, this is a great post - very helpful and very powerful. Great job.
    Signature
    Need an awesome ghostwriter to fill in for you?

    Check out StephenWaldo.com
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7666602].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Edwin Torres
      Originally Posted by stephenwaldo View Post

      Ha, I definitely noticed your open loops throughout the OP - very well done.

      This is an excellent tip for any e-mail marketer, and I also can personally attest to its power. I've never called the technique "looping", but I do make a point of carefully crafting my transitions at the beginning and end of every e-mail.

      In my experience, the beginning of an e-mail determines how much of it a subscriber will read, while the end determines whether or not they will read the next one.

      So, at the end of all of my e-mails I deliberately leave my subscribers with a question. Then, I blatantly tell them that I will answer it in the next e-mail, sometimes even the giving them the next subject line so they can watch out for it.

      Really, when you think about it an e-course is actually just a really big loop. I definitely attribute that as the reason I get such awesome open rates.

      Speaking of, I don't know what the average open rate is in my industry, although I know it's higher than most. None the less, the list I spend the most time working on gets a minimum 40% open rate according to Aweber's stats, and I think that's pretty dang impressive.

      Again, this is a great post - very helpful and very powerful. Great job.
      Thank you! I wanted to help beginners to looping, while at the same time get some help myself haha

      So you basically you do the reverse by opening a loop at the end of the email to get them interested in your next one?

      Also, a 40% open rate is awesome, congrats!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7666697].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author drewfioravanti
    LOL...

    You said you wanted to send a broadcast with an open loop that is closed on a web page...

    I said that is basically the same thing as a PLS...it is outside of your SOS...

    Then, I was trying to figure out why you would want to do a broadcast with an open loop that is closed on a web page...

    Sell a product? You said no.
    A squeeze page? You said no.

    I like the way you are using the open loop in a creative way...I just can't figure out what the end goal is.

    Now I think I am starting to confuse myself. LOL
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7666618].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Edwin Torres
      Originally Posted by drewfioravanti View Post

      LOL...

      You said you wanted to send a broadcast with an open loop that is closed on a web page...

      I said that is basically the same thing as a PLS...it is outside of your SOS...

      Then, I was trying to figure out why you would want to do a broadcast with an open loop that is closed on a web page...

      Sell a product? You said no.
      A squeeze page? You said no.

      I like the way you are using the open loop in a creative way...I just can't figure out what the end goal is.

      Now I think I am starting to confuse myself. LOL
      Oh! Now I know what you mean.

      So yeah for example in the email I open a loop saying I'll teach them how to drive massive traffic. But they have to click on the link to find out what that is.

      The point was to teach them training.

      Now that I am thinking of this, this type of open loop doesnt sound very good LOL.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7666704].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Joe Benjamin
    This.

    Is.

    Good.

    -- Bad Azz --
    Signature
    **How I FLIPPED $80 into $690 Pure Profit With ONE EASY Method...2 to 3x Per Week...Only 30 Minutes Per Day (and how YOU can COPY my RESULTS, too!) **CLICK HERE FOR VERIFIED VIDEO PROOF**
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7667407].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Edwin Torres
    Anyone else use these loops in their business?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7668492].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Joe Benjamin
      Originally Posted by Edwin Torres View Post

      Anyone else use these loops in their business?
      I wish I could say I've done this. Sadly, I never have.

      ...and yet it only makes sense.


      There's something I discovered that gave me *chills*.

      But first I should mention...


      This is the same formula used in all the best captivating
      stories I've read.

      ...all the
      heart pounding movies I've seen.

      ...and all the spine tingling music I've heard.

      Here' an interesting thought:

      I appreciate *this* thread more than most any I've
      read thus far.

      The reason why is simple, yet under-stated --

      It packs a helluva punch in as few words as possible
      ...and it used the very strategy I didn't see coming till'
      the very end.


      I've made thousands as a copywriter and a marketer.

      ...even *I* didn't see it coming.

      You learn something new everyday in this business
      that can be the game changer and give you an edge.

      This is one of them.

      Of course, using loops and storytelling shouldn't be
      the only thing a marketer use in his sales weapons arsenal.

      ...but I can see how one could completely kill the
      game with this alone if they were totally *lazy*.

      And as for what I discovered that sent chills down my
      back?


      People are carpet bombed with information.

      Most of which is useful.

      Almost none of which is acted on.

      People don't WANT to be showered with free gifts
      and information.

      ...for a gift not used is a burden.

      "Where am I going to store this FREE information
      given to me...aw hell...I guess it'll go on my hard-
      drive with the rest of the free stuff I got...taking
      up valuable space...wasting valuable time..."

      What theyDO want (cue drum roll please)...
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .

      Is to be entertained.

      NOT lectured.

      Guided to a desired result.

      NOT forced
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      This not only makes it easier on customers and visitors.

      It makes it easier on us.

      This means LESS content to create. LESS effort to sell.
      LESS dollars to market.

      ...while achieving MAXIMUM results.

      The Law Of Least Effort.

      So many of us work harder to OVER deliver...instead
      of moving the prospect CLOSER to the basket for an
      easy layup -- we push them further BACK for a half
      court shot.

      Unless you play basketball for millions of greenbacks
      ...who in their right mind would bother to try?

      I'll leave on this note...

      Andre Chaperon is spot on. I see why the guy has so
      many fans and followers.

      Now I'm one of 'em.

      I'm off to the races.

      Thanks Edwin.

      -- Joe "Bad Azz" Benjamin --
      Signature
      **How I FLIPPED $80 into $690 Pure Profit With ONE EASY Method...2 to 3x Per Week...Only 30 Minutes Per Day (and how YOU can COPY my RESULTS, too!) **CLICK HERE FOR VERIFIED VIDEO PROOF**
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7669478].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Edwin Torres
        Originally Posted by Joe Benjamin View Post

        I wish I could say I've done this. Sadly, I never have.

        ...and yet it only makes sense.

        There's something I discovered that gave me a paradigm
        shift as I was walking away from this to take action on this.

        But first I should mention...

        This is the same formula used in all the best captivating
        stories I've read.

        ...all the
        heart pounding movies I've seen.

        ...and all the spine tingling music I've heard.

        Here' an interesting thought:

        I appreciate *this* thread more than most any I've
        read thus far.

        The reason why is simple, yet under-stated --

        It packs a helluva punch in as few words as possible
        ...and it used the very strategy I didn't see coming till'
        the very end.


        I've made thousands as a copywriter and a marketer.

        ...even *I* didn't see it coming.

        You learn something new everyday in this business
        that can be the game changer and give you an edge.

        This is one of them.

        Of course, using loops and storytelling shouldn't be
        the only thing a marketer use in his sales weapons arsenal.

        ...but I can see how one could completely kill the
        game with this alone if they were totally *lazy*.

        As for what I discovered? It's this...

        People don't want to be lectured.

        They want to be entertained.

        Entertained AND informed at the same time.

        Here's why I suspect this matters...

        People are carpet bombed with information. Most
        of which is useful.

        Almost none of which is acted on.

        People don't WANT to be showered with 'free this' or
        'free that'. It'll just sit on their hard drive wasted.

        It's too much to handle.

        What they DO want are simple instructions that are
        easy to follow leading to a desired result.

        When I think about it this makes doing my job much...
        much easier.

        That's LESS content I have to create.

        LESS effort I have to put in to get MAXIMUM results.

        And we work harder by OVER delivering...moving the
        free line as far back as possible for a half-court shot...
        instead of closer to the rim for an easy backboard layup.

        I'll leave on this note...

        Andre Chaperon is spot on. I see why the guy has so
        many fans and followers.

        Now I'm one of 'em.

        I'm off to the races.

        Thanks Edwin.

        -- Joe "Bad Azz" Benjamin --


        Thanks Joe for the compliment.

        And you're right about people wanting to be entertained not taught to.

        Some people call this mix "infotainment" and I've been trying to semi-master it these past few weeks.

        Thanks for your post because it opened my mind to the fact that people don't want to know TOO much information. The more you give them, the more it goes unuswed on their hardrives.

        I've been trying to give them link, after link, and I've wondered why I haven't gotten the results I wanted. Even though I was telling stories, I was lecturing them.

        AKA showing, not telling them when I should of just gave them advice with no need of extra content.

        So what Im gathering from what you said is. You can help the prospect more by giving them small little tidbits of advice, rather than giving them a full on tutorial on how to do something online?

        P.S: I just read your message again, and just noticed all the open loops you used. Well played :-P
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7669631].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author rankingconsult
    I just call it 'sucking somebody in' but it is not easy to do unless one has reasonable writing skills.

    For those who cannot get their head around the subject then think of it in terms of:

    Engaging content - write an email that you yourself would read as you find it interesting.

    Targeted message - make it personal. It needs to sound like you are offering them something that they really want or need without being to 'salesy'

    Curiosity - If you have not grabbed them by the end of the email verbiage enough to make them click that link, then throw in a line that piques their curiosity.
    Signature
    4Sale - IncomeScheme.com | eAdverts.com |
    MediAdverts.com | Medicals.info
    Got a video gaming site - Grab an Online Battle Script
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7669635].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
      If you use open loops in your e-mail campaigns, then at least
      use them skillfully where they become almost invisible.

      I think there's a balance to be had between being entertaining
      and holding your subscriber's attention and taking them on a
      series manipulative mind fecks of open loops that only close over
      a sequence of e-mails.

      Also, do a split-test where you measure the effect on end
      SALES for open loop campaigns vs campaigns without any
      nested loops before making your final decision.

      Dedicated to mutual success,

      Shaun
      Signature

      .

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7669736].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Edwin Torres
        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        If you use open loops in your e-mail campaigns, then at least
        use them skillfully where they become almost invisible.

        I think there's a balance to be had between being entertaining
        and holding your subscriber's attention and taking them on a
        series manipulative mind fecks of open loops that only close over
        a sequence of e-mails.

        Also, do a split-test where you measure the effect on end
        SALES for open loop campaigns vs campaigns without any
        nested loops before making your final decision.

        Dedicated to mutual success,

        Shaun

        Thats actually a good idea to split test this stuff, thanks
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7669749].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
    I learned about this from one of Joe Vitale's books.

    While meaning to try it, I've never really given it a shot though - thanks for reminding of it!
    Signature

    -Jason

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7669998].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author higherluv
    Derek Halpern on Social Triggers does the looping thing extremely well within his blog posts.

    I just subscribed to his list, so I don’t know if he does it in his emails as well - probably does!

    Still don’t know what SOS or PLS means though...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7670077].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Edwin Torres
      Originally Posted by scottgallagher View Post

      I have to chime in. I bought and took the ARM sequence course.

      Since, I've implemented loops and nested loops into my 63 day sequence. I have 5 unique sequences for 5 industries, with 17 emails in each.

      I tell my story, offer value in each email and leave each email open. Check out my sequence if you'd like.

      http://www.wonmarketing.com/report/

      I have to say my audience engagement has done very well. Everyday I'm responding and engaging with my leads. It works wonders. Period.
      I might need to re-read ARM again because I have a few questions. Maybe you can answer them:

      *How do you do broadcasts? Are they SOS sequences also? Or just open loops?

      *Do you promote products doing it the PLS sequence way? If so how is it working out for you?

      Originally Posted by jasonl70 View Post

      I learned about this from one of Joe Vitale's books.

      While meaning to try it, I've never really given it a shot though - thanks for reminding of it!
      No problem
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7670377].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author johndetlefs
    I seem to get a lot of these in Frank Kern's emails.

    He's very clever at coming up with "Watch this video, and make sure that you really pay attention at the 3 min 41 second mark where even I learned a new trick!"

    Is that an example of an open loop that the video closes? If so, that would be a great way to get click through on your broadcasts?
    Signature

    You only get one shot at life - make it awesome.

    Everyone else also gets just one crack at it - help make theirs awesome too... or, politely step out of their way.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7670422].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Edwin Torres
      Originally Posted by johndetlefs View Post

      I seem to get a lot of these in Frank Kern's emails.

      He's very clever at coming up with "Watch this video, and make sure that you really pay attention at the 3 min 41 second mark where even I learned a new trick!"

      Is that an example of an open loop that the video closes? If so, that would be a great way to get click through on your broadcasts?
      It very well could be because the link or video the visitor clicks on over to could close the loop and by him saying that certain time in the video will answer the open loop, thats genius
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7670438].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author johndetlefs
    Yeah, he's a very clever marketer, I've been following him for years, and I've been tinkering around with those sorts of loops for a little while now, I just didn't know what they were called!

    Now that I see it here though, I seem to remember that in the Copywriter's forum they talk about nested loops a lot as a way to keep attention over the full sales letter.

    It's a very clever "under the radar" technique, and thanks for reminding me of it... I think I'll start getting serious about it!
    Signature

    You only get one shot at life - make it awesome.

    Everyone else also gets just one crack at it - help make theirs awesome too... or, politely step out of their way.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7670475].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Edwin Torres
      Originally Posted by johndetlefs View Post

      Yeah, he's a very clever marketer, I've been following him for years, and I've been tinkering around with those sorts of loops for a little while now, I just didn't know what they were called!

      Now that I see it here though, I seem to remember that in the Copywriter's forum they talk about nested loops a lot as a way to keep attention over the full sales letter.

      It's a very clever "under the radar" technique, and thanks for reminding me of it... I think I'll start getting serious about it!
      Tell me how it goes
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7670701].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Edwin Torres
    For those people who've used/purchased any of the Autoresponder Madness versions, what are we supposed to send out as broadcasts?

    Is it supposed to be a Product Launch Sequence?

    And do we do these always?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7671797].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by Edwin Torres View Post

      For those people who've used/purchased any of the Autoresponder Madness versions, what are we supposed to send out as broadcasts?

      Is it supposed to be a Product Launch Sequence?

      And do we do these always?
      At some point you have to "do your own thing" - just split test the ones that work best and fit your style.

      You should take the information in Andre's course and modify it to fit your own business rather than trying to "copy" his exact system.

      The reason being - some folks are terrible at nested loops while others are terrible at "product launch sequences" and so on and so forth. So if Andre were to tell you the "exact" sequence to use it could actually do you more harm then help.

      Email marketing is one of the few areas where there is no "right" way to do it. You have to study the basic theories then use them to fit your own style of marketing, niche, and business goals.

      Long story short = Just use whatever accentuates your strengths and gets you the best results.

      Hope this helps.

      Cheers,
      Coby
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7672945].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Edwin Torres
        Originally Posted by Coby View Post

        At some point you have to "do your own thing" - just split test the ones that work best and fit your style.

        You should take the information in Andre's course and modify it to fit your own business rather than trying to "copy" his exact system.

        The reason being - some folks are terrible at nested loops while others are terrible at "product launch sequences" and so on and so forth. So if Andre were to tell you the "exact" sequence to use if could actually do you more harm then help.

        Email marketing is one of the few areas where there is no "right" way to do it. You have to study the basics theories then use them to fit your own style of marketing, niche, and business goals.

        Long story short = Just use whatever accentuates your strengths and gets your the best results.

        Hope this helps.

        Cheers,
        Coby
        Awesome! I've been studying a few different models and will see my plan of action
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7673507].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    Copywriters use loops all the time.

    In an email sequence...

    You can definitely open a loop in the first email...

    ...then resolve in the fifth.

    "Do you remember when I told you I'd reveal the number one method rich people use to grow their wealth in their sleep?"

    Personally...

    If I'm writing a sales letter or something like that, I'll always resolve the loop.

    But with emails...

    You have way more freedom to resolve loops at a much later time.

    You can even tease the resolution in your email subject.

    Mark
    Signature

    Do You Want To Make 5 and 6-Figures A Month As A Freelance Copywriter? My Copywriting System Has Made Over 600 Million Dollars. Discover More

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7674594].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Edwin Torres
      Originally Posted by Mark Pescetti View Post

      Copywriters use loops all the time.

      In an email sequence...

      You can definitely open a loop in the first email...

      ...then resolve in the fifth.

      "Do you remember when I told you I'd reveal the number one method rich people use to grow their wealth in their sleep?"

      Personally...

      If I'm writing a sales letter or something like that, I'll always resolve the loop.

      But with emails...

      You have way more freedom to resolve loops at a much later time.

      You can even tease the resolution in your email subject.

      Mark
      I'm going to test using open loops at the beginning of the email, and closing it at the end and maybe opening a new loop at the bottom.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7674641].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author roueric
        This thread is a great eye-opener!...

        I'm new to IM and just started ARM (at lesson #2)...

        Although I understood PLS and SOS I still don't grasp the way of implementing it.....Anyway, I"ll keep studying and hopefully I'll get better

        Thanks again for this thread!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7723724].message }}

Trending Topics