They Money is in the List...Just not MY LIST!

71 replies
Maybe I'm doing something totally wrong, but I hear that phrase repeated over and over again and it's beginning to sound like fanaticism chanted meaninglessly.

I understand that there are tons of businesses online which are making a killing with email marketing. But I'm definitely not one of them.

I listened to everyone when they said you must build a list. But the idea is obviously to build a responsive list so that you get a decent ROI from your email campaign.

I feel like I've been wasting money on my autoresponder since I signed up for one. This month, I decided to pull the plug on my GetResponse account because I'm not making a single dollar back to cover the measly $15/month I've been paying.

Before that, I was with aWeber for slightly more. Still not a dollar made using them either.

I'm guessing I'm just not trying to sell enough. I'm not hardcore into affiliate marketing, so I don't push products at people too often. Mostly I just blog and offer freelance writing services, so this autoresponder thing seems to be a big waste for me.

Sure, I have a couple of info products too but the email stuff doesn't seem to be effective for promoting that either.

If anyone knows of something I am missing, I'd love to hear suggestions. But please don't repeat the same thing everyone else has said. I understand you may be getting great results, but how can I do this?
#list #listjust #money
  • Profile picture of the author radhika
    It depends on type of the list. Ex: Lists related to internet marketing info products tend to make less money than lists related to health niche. (my experience).

    Try to be in constant contact with your subscribers.
    Ask them to participate on your twitter/facebook account. Try to involve them.
    And be patient.

    Nobody gets money from day 1. Well, I didn't... So don't lose heart

    .
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  • Profile picture of the author Mormo
    I signed up on a bunch of IM lists when I started but now I only read the posts from one guy. He's funny and always gives away free info.
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  • Profile picture of the author drewfioravanti
    It all comes down to having the right offer in front of the right prospect at the right time. You figure out how to do that through practice.
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  • Profile picture of the author raywarrior1978
    Originally Posted by ashloren View Post

    Maybe I'm doing something totally wrong, but I hear that phrase repeated over and over again and it's beginning to sound like fanaticism chanted meaninglessly.

    I understand that there are tons of businesses online which are making a killing with email marketing. But I'm definitely not one of them.

    I listened to everyone when they said you must build a list. But the idea is obviously to build a responsive list so that you get a decent ROI from your email campaign.

    I feel like I've been wasting money on my autoresponder since I signed up for one. This month, I decided to pull the plug on my GetResponse account because I'm not making a single dollar back to cover the measly $15/month I've been paying.

    Before that, I was with aWeber for slightly more. Still not a dollar made using them either.

    I'm guessing I'm just not trying to sell enough. I'm not hardcore into affiliate marketing, so I don't push products at people too often. Mostly I just blog and offer freelance writing services, so this autoresponder thing seems to be a big waste for me.

    Sure, I have a couple of info products too but the email stuff doesn't seem to be effective for promoting that either.

    If anyone knows of something I am missing, I'd love to hear suggestions. But please don't repeat the same thing everyone else has said. I understand you may be getting great results, but how can I do this?
    Hi Ashloren. I feel your pain. Right now I am spending 19 dollars a month with aweber and 15 dollars with get reponse because I am running the AAX free list building software where you make 2 dollars back per referral and I am not making sh*t!!

    There goes 34 dollars a month and I can't build a list for nothing. I have no money to even buy solo ads. Right now I am trying to build simple youtube videos with maybe around 300 searches a month and put my squeeze page link on the description link but this is worth crap.

    I am soooo frustrated how everyone here says do this and do that yet they don't even follow their own steps.

    I must be the only person in here who can't make money online.

    Thank God I have a freaking job or I would be starving to death with this IM thing, lol.

    I think I am going to cancel my chris farrell membership, 37 dollars a month plus both of my autoresponder that's another 34 dollars a month and saved me a total of 71 dollars a month and take my g/f to Olive Garden once a month.

    At least I will be doing something productive with my money instead of making this people richer and throwing my hard earn money away!
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    • Profile picture of the author Coach Ke
      Originally Posted by raywarrior1978 View Post

      Hi Ashloren. I feel your pain. Right now I am spending 19 dollars a month with aweber and 15 dollars with get reponse because I am running the AAX free list building software where you make 2 dollars back per referral and I am not making sh*t!!

      There goes 34 dollars a month and I can't build a list for nothing. I have no money to even buy solo ads. Right now I am trying to build simple youtube videos with maybe around 300 searches a month and put my squeeze page link on the description link but this is worth crap.

      I am soooo frustrated how everyone here says do this and do that yet they don't even follow their own steps.

      I must be the only person in here who can't make money online.

      Thank God I have a freaking job or I would be starving to death with this IM thing, lol.

      I think I am going to cancel my chris farrell membership, 37 dollars a month plus both of my autoresponder that's another 34 dollars a month and saved me a total of 71 dollars a month and take my g/f to Olive Garden once a month.

      At least I will be doing something productive with my money instead of making this people richer and throwing my hard earn money away!
      Hey check your email, I think I can help you
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    • Profile picture of the author Grace Li
      Originally Posted by raywarrior1978 View Post

      Hi Ashloren. I feel your pain. Right now I am spending 19 dollars a month with aweber and 15 dollars with get reponse because I am running the AAX free list building software where you make 2 dollars back per referral and I am not making sh*t!!

      There goes 34 dollars a month and I can't build a list for nothing. I have no money to even buy solo ads. Right now I am trying to build simple youtube videos with maybe around 300 searches a month and put my squeeze page link on the description link but this is worth crap.

      I am soooo frustrated how everyone here says do this and do that yet they don't even follow their own steps.

      I must be the only person in here who can't make money online.

      Thank God I have a freaking job or I would be starving to death with this IM thing, lol.

      I think I am going to cancel my chris farrell membership, 37 dollars a month plus both of my autoresponder that's another 34 dollars a month and saved me a total of 71 dollars a month and take my g/f to Olive Garden once a month.

      At least I will be doing something productive with my money instead of making this people richer and throwing my hard earn money away!
      Why do you use two auto responders? waste of money!
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      • Profile picture of the author Shaolinsteve
        I don't think anyone has asked about this yet but although you only have 150 subscribers, what is your open rate like?
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        • Profile picture of the author ashloren
          Originally Posted by Shaolinsteve View Post

          I don't think anyone has asked about this yet but although you only have 150 subscribers, what is your open rate like?
          I don't send out many emails other than my new blog posts (automatically send out from RSS through autoresponder). My open rate for new blog posts sent out to my subscribers is around 31% or so, according to my stats in GetResponse.

          I have only sent out a few emails other than that, and those get anywhere between 6 and 30%.
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          • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
            Originally Posted by ashloren View Post

            I don't send out many emails other than my new blog posts (automatically send out from RSS through autoresponder). My open rate for new blog posts sent out to my subscribers is around 31% or so, according to my stats in GetResponse.

            I have only sent out a few emails other than that, and those get anywhere between 6 and 30%.
            If you're only sending out content emails. That's why you're not making any money.

            If you want to make money, you have to sell.

            The two example emails you listed above. The first was a content email with a banner ad (no attempt to get people to click it beyond putting it there). The second was advertising a free resource (I don't know if there's some commission structure later on?).

            Bottom line. It obviously makes you feel uncomfortable to sell but if you want to make money, that's what you have to do. You can't keep giving everything away and hope to make it up on volume, that's just not how the game works.
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            • Profile picture of the author Malcolm Thomas
              Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher View Post

              If you're only sending out content emails. That's why you're not making any money.

              If you want to make money, you have to sell.

              The two example emails you listed above. The first was a content email with a banner ad (no attempt to get people to click it beyond putting it there). The second was advertising a free resource (I don't know if there's some commission structure later on?).

              Bottom line. It obviously makes you feel uncomfortable to sell but if you want to make money, that's what you have to do. You can't keep giving everything away and hope to make it up on volume, that's just not how the game works.
              This. You must be focused on selling if your goal is to begin making money online.
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  • Profile picture of the author JustinDupre
    You probably won't notice much in the way of cash until you have thousands of subs. New lists require rapport and trust.
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  • Profile picture of the author paul nicholls
    why are you cancelling your account just because you're not making more back

    it's not going to be like that for ever

    at the same time a measly $15 is nothing considering you have the opportunity to build a business

    working online is exactly the same as anything else. you need to budget a little bit of money each month to invest in your business

    if you have the mindset of "unless i make back the money i spend on tools each month i'm going to cancel my tools"

    you need to really have a good think and start changing the way you think and start treating $15 as an investment into your business each month not that you're losing $15 per month

    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author ashloren
      Originally Posted by paul nicholls View Post

      why are you cancelling your account just because you're not making more back

      it's not going to be like that for ever

      at the same time a measly $15 is nothing considering you have the opportunity to build a business

      working online is exactly the same as anything else. you need to budget a little bit of money each month to invest in your business

      if you have the mindset of "unless i make back the money i spend on tools each month i'm going to cancel my tools"

      you need to really have a good think and start changing the way you think and start treating $15 as an investment into your business each month not that you're losing $15 per month

      Paul
      I don't have an issue with investing in my business or working hard to build it up from the ground. But I have been paying for an autoresponder for the past year and have gotten about zero results from it since first signing up.

      My list is small, only about 150 people so far. I know that's really not much, but it also doesn't seem to be growing very fast either. I give away tons of valuable, free stuff all the freakin' time. Perhaps too much...I don't know. I just can't figure out how to channel my subscribers towards something which will benefit them and at the same time justify the small fee I'm paying every month to stay in touch with them.
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      • Profile picture of the author rmolina88
        Originally Posted by ashloren View Post

        I don't have an issue with investing in my business or working hard to build it up from the ground. But I have been paying for an autoresponder for the past year and have gotten about zero results from it since first signing up.

        My list is small, only about 150 people so far. I know that's really not much, but it also doesn't seem to be growing very fast either. I give away tons of valuable, free stuff all the freakin' time. Perhaps too much...I don't know. I just can't figure out how to channel my subscribers towards something which will benefit them and at the same time justify the small fee I'm paying every month to stay in touch with them.
        Here are your problems:

        - 150 subscribers is waaaaay too small to see any results. You may not get results until you actually hit 2000+.

        - You're giving out way too much FREE stuff, so you conditioned your list to be freebie seekers. This is nice of you, but eventually, people are going to get sick of getting free ebooks because they have 100 gigs of them on their hard drives. You may have some people on your list who wanted their fix and you didn't provide it to them.

        When I stopped giving out freebies and started giving out valuable information along with selling, my sales shot up dramatically.

        The good news is that you can still easily salvage everything since you have a small list of subscribers you can replace. It would have been terrible if you had 5000+ subs and still didn't make a dime off them.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bill Hugall
          Originally Posted by rmolina88 View Post

          Here are your problems:

          - 150 subscribers is waaaaay too small to see any results. You may not get results until you actually hit 2000+.
          .
          The rest of your info is awesome, but I take exception to this. I made money when I had 50 people. Making sure they know what they are getting into when they enter your list is key to making sales early. Review sites are great for this
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          • Profile picture of the author TerranceCharles
            People buy from people they know, like and trust. If you're building a freebie list through solo ads, adswaps, giveaways etc - more than likely these people have never heard of you, so the conversions will be far lower.

            Building a buyers list is much more targeted, these people know who you are, and trust your recommendations, that's where the best conversions come from. But, also - it depends on what you're sending to your list, and how many times you're sending it.

            The 3 main reasons people unsubscribe is because they get too much emails, the emails doesn't fit what they're interested in, or they don't know who you are. Most of the times, the way you build a list is how you'll lose a list. If you've built your list through adswaps, solo's, giveaways - that's usually what will turn them off and make them unsubscribe. So you don't want to heavily promote giveaways, and adswaps to them.

            Find out what your target is, the best thing to do is ASK your list what they're are interested in, instead of trying to figure that out yourself. You have to condition your list from the jump, and be consistent in your mailings. But, MOST of the time it also comes down to your headline and your adcopy that isn't pulling them enough to take action. Then, you have to have a proven product that CONVERTS.

            Segment your list according to what they're interested in, you don't just want to have 1 list and send anything to them. If they've replied to you, or take action, put them on a different list for different offers. It takes time, but when you build the right list, it will take care of you It's a two-way conversation - they're real people.
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            • Profile picture of the author Malcolm Thomas
              Originally Posted by TerranceCharles View Post

              People buy from people they know, like and trust. If you're building a freebie list through solo ads, adswaps, giveaways etc - more than likely these people have never heard of you, so the conversions will be far lower.

              Building a buyers list is much more targeted, these people know who you are, and trust your recommendations, that's where the best conversions come from. But, also - it depends on what you're sending to your list, and how many times you're sending it.

              The 3 main reasons people unsubscribe is because they get too much emails, the emails doesn't fit what they're interested in, or they don't know who you are. Most of the times, the way you build a list is how you'll lose a list. If you've built your list through adswaps, solo's, giveaways - that's usually what will turn them off and make them unsubscribe. So you don't want to heavily promote giveaways, and adswaps to them.

              Find out what your target is, the best thing to do is ASK your list what they're are interested in, instead of trying to figure that out yourself. You have to condition your list from the jump, and be consistent in your mailings. But, MOST of the time it also comes down to your headline and your adcopy that isn't pulling them enough to take action. Then, you have to have a proven product that CONVERTS.

              Segment your list according to what they're interested in, you don't just want to have 1 list and send anything to them. If they've replied to you, or take action, put them on a different list for different offers. It takes time, but when you build the right list, it will take care of you It's a two-way conversation - they're real people.
              This. Building a solid relationship with the people on your list is also something that many marketers fail to do. It's highly important that you continue to mail your list attractive offers and offer your list value, that they whenever you do recommend something to your list, they will be more likely to purchase what you recommend, because they trust you.
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          • Profile picture of the author johnsonf5
            I agree that 150 subscribers is too small of a base to get any real results. I have made some sales to small lists before, but to get the type of results that I'm sure you are looking for, I would say it's time to take action on growing your list.

            I wish I could tell you list building is easy, but for me it's not. Building a list with thousands, if not tens of thousands is not built overnight.

            Without knowing what you are trying to promote, whether it is your own product or an affiliate product, it is hard to say what technique you should be using to grow your list.

            I believe in the "buyers" list building method. This technique does however require you to have your own product or a product to market. This method is where you launch your own product and getting a buyer to optin to your list on the backend. Not only do you get paid for your product but you are building a list of buyers at the same time.

            In my experience freebie seekers will never buy from you no matter what, but customers that have bought from you in the past will most likely do so again.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bryan
          Originally Posted by JustinDupre View Post

          You probably won't notice much in the way of cash until you have thousands of subs. New lists require rapport and trust.
          Exactly!

          Originally Posted by ashloren View Post

          We must have been on the same wavelength, because I was thinking the same thing after I posted this thread. I have just added an about page here, what do you think?
          No, this wouldn't really effect your sales from your email marketing. It's good to have one to connect more with visitors of your blog, but as far as your optin rate, if the side bar is your main way of collecting leads, you may have a problem.

          If you want to increase optin rate, you'll want to add a clear value proposition where you have your optin form. Remove the "Email Newsletter" doesn't really Grab attention or tell them what you're giving them or how it is going to be worth them subscribing.

          In some cases if you are linking from forum, or somewhere where you're specifically offering them something free, you'll want to send them to a simple squeeze page. You can get some pretty high conversions, even with just an enticing headling optin and clear line on what they're getting with your optin box.

          Make sure where you're linking to your squeeze page that you have call to action for them so they know that what they're going to get, for asking people just visit your blog doesn't clearly tell them what they're getting and how it is worth it them.

          You can also put optin boxes at the bottom of specific pages and posts that have clear value propostion. There is some software like optiskin that can automate adding the optin form to the bottom of posts.

          Remember, you're building a business, and it takes persistent effort and time -- and more of that if you can't leverage your efforts with advertising, tools, and outsourcing. Just keep plugging away.

          It can be discouraging at times, but giving up, and trying something else if a major problem that a lot of people end up doing, which I've done myself. This takes away momentum, and you start all over doing something else from the bottom again. Everything takes effort, pratice, and there is a learning curve for every business model you take on.

          Just keep on building away and don't give up. Bouncing all over has probably been the biggest issue I have had along with many other when comes to struggling with internet marketing. Don't pay attention, to the Guroos that make it look like you do a little work and cash in. It's all a process and you need to master one business model and traffic source, before moving on to others.

          Good luck!
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      • Profile picture of the author Kukelka
        Originally Posted by ashloren View Post

        I don't have an issue with investing in my business or working hard to build it up from the ground. But I have been paying for an autoresponder for the past year and have gotten about zero results from it since first signing up.

        My list is small, only about 150 people so far. I know that's really not much, but it also doesn't seem to be growing very fast either. I give away tons of valuable, free stuff all the freakin' time. Perhaps too much...I don't know. I just can't figure out how to channel my subscribers towards something which will benefit them and at the same time justify the small fee I'm paying every month to stay in touch with them.

        You have only 150 subscribers, so I think you can't make any decision or conclusions having such tiny email list. Small percentage of people from email list takes any action,so for example if 10% clicks your links it would be just 15 people. Try to build bigger list , build 1000 email list,2000 email list and you will se much more money coming in your pocket than $15 .
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      • Profile picture of the author tonyb23
        Originally Posted by ashloren View Post

        I give away tons of valuable, free stuff all the freakin' time. Perhaps too much...I don't know. I just can't figure out how to channel my subscribers towards something which will benefit them and at the same time justify the small fee I'm paying every month to stay in touch with them.
        There's your problem right there. Giving away freebies to build your list results in having a list filled with cheap-skates. So there's no question why you aren't making money with your list. You need to focus on building a buyers list, not a list of freebie seekers.

        Don't be afraid to sell. Set up a survey monkey poll to ask your current subscribers what their biggest frustrations are in whatever niche you're in. Whatever trend you see is popular, make that into a product, and sell it to them.

        Once you've made it, bring the price down way low (under $10). Then I would introduce that product to new subscribers as early as you can. Maybe as an OTO after they've subscribed to your list. This will help you build your buyers list and weed out the cheap skates.
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  • Profile picture of the author mogulmap
    How big is your list?
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    • Profile picture of the author raywarrior1978
      Paul 15 dollars might not be nothing for you but it is for me.

      Maybe you make alot of money in your job, or maybe you don't even work. Maybe you make a killing online.

      But I bust my ass off in the hot ass warehouse m-f 10 hours a day making 9/hr

      So yes 15 dollars is alot to me. Do you know how much freaking boxes I have to pick up, pack and ship in 1 hour?? I bet you wouldn't last 1 day here. Then I have to give my money away to this autoresponder company when I can not build my list? Oh please!

      Of course it makes sense. Can you let me borrow 500 dollars so I can go to safe swaps and buy some solo ads? It seems you have alot of money..

      By the way I don't want your money, I was being sarcastic.

      Yea but don't ever say any amount is nothing to anyone in here because you don't know their circumstances dude.

      Anyways, I am out to make money the old fashioned way. Make some flyers and hand them out promoting clickbank products. This online stuff is way too hard. Now I see why so many quit. And if I wanted a mentor I have to pay. At my hourly rate it would take me 5 years to pay someone for a 1 day coaching session. I have to many bills to pay with hardly no income.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bryan
        Originally Posted by ashloren View Post
        I'm guessing I'm just not trying to sell enough. I'm not hardcore into affiliate marketing, so I don't push products at people too often. Mostly I just blog and offer freelance writing services, so this autoresponder thing seems to be a big waste for me.
        Don't be like 90+% that kill their relationship with their subscribers and their open rate with it.

        Right now you don't have a many subscribers, and being a new email marketer, your metrics are at the lowest since you are starting out and learning what works.

        Forget hype and remember you're dealing with people. You do need to know how to persuade people though, but you do that by being a real person and not resemble the sterotypical scumbag salesman, which many email marketers tend to embrace.

        At this time you don't have a lot of subscribers, so all your metrics will be low, which will include the actual visitors to your offer. A small percentage of visitors that visit your offer will actually buy. 1.5-4% is typical depending on your presell and your actual offer.

        Think of the process of your subscriber. They get a bunch of emails each day. Some they open, and some they don't. They open the emails that appeal to them the most at that time, but even then, that doesn't mean that will be interested in finding out more about the offer and click on the link. Those that may be interested to find out more, still may not buy.

        I'm sure you get a lot of emails, where people want you to buy something. So, use your experience to put yourself in the shoes of those that are receiving your emails. Make a swipe/example file of enaging subject lines, content, and calls to action, to refer to just to get the creative juices going.

        At this point, you need to focus on building that list bigger for you really don't have a big enough list to get a sale per mailing. It's possible, but like I said, out of those 150 subscribers, very few will likely end up on your sales pages through the process, and an even lower percentage will actually buy that do land on it.

        When you have more subscribers, you'll have more data to know what you need to improve in the process.

        I'm not going to get into more than that right now, but you can PM me if need more help. I don't mind helping people that are actually doing the work.
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  • Profile picture of the author onSubie
    Originally Posted by ashloren View Post

    I'm guessing I'm just not trying to sell enough. I'm not hardcore into affiliate marketing, so I don't push products at people too often. Mostly I just blog and offer freelance writing services, so this autoresponder thing seems to be a big waste for me.
    Hi

    From this description, you would really benefit from a list. It is hard to be too specific because you didn't tell us much about how you build and communicate with your list now.

    If you run a blog, then a list gives you a source of instant traffic. Just send an email to your list, "I just posted a new article (link)"

    I am also on some lists from writers. They send reminders of their services, specials and affiliate links to WSO's they think I might like.

    You should have two lists, a list of buyers and a list of freebie seekers.

    Anyone who has hired you for your writing service should go on your buyers list. These are people who have actually paid for your writing and may be likely to buy again if you remind them of your availability or send out "25% discount to former customers" type emails.

    Your freebie seeker list can be built with an opt-in at your blog or by driving traffic to a squeeze page. You could entice them with a free ebook, or if you want to promote your writing, maybe a pack of articles you have written that they can use with PLR rights.

    You don't have to hard-sell to your list. If you just like writing blog posts and offering writing services, that is all you have to promote to your list. It will drive traffic and bring more clients.

    Mahlon
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  • Profile picture of the author mhdeaton
    If you guys want help I'll be glad to try and help. Ill tell you what I know and what I do to earn 6 figures x 4 every year (Although thats down a bit this year) Im not a huge rich internet marketer, but I could probably help you more than them anyway. I can help you via email and skype - pm me your questions or concerns and we can ramp up into email and skype chats if I can help you.
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  • Profile picture of the author mhdeaton
    Hey your title here proves you can probably write copy :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author onSubie
    I think one thing that might help build your list. Ask people to opt-in for the freebies instead of "Pay with a Tweet".

    Also, the opt-in box you do have is not very visible and doesn't really offer an enticement to sign up. And it is a feedburner notice not an opt-in to your list. Did you already dump your autoresponders?

    The giant Sharasale display ad below it also pulls the eye away with a big yellow "Register Now" button that actually takes people away from your site.

    If they enter their email and hit "register now" their email does not get registered and they go to shareasale.

    Edit: Your blog looks very nice by the way!
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  • Profile picture of the author JHandy
    Originally Posted by ashloren View Post

    Maybe I'm doing something totally wrong, but I hear that phrase repeated over and over again and it's beginning to sound like fanaticism chanted meaninglessly.

    I understand that there are tons of businesses online which are making a killing with email marketing. But I'm definitely not one of them.

    I listened to everyone when they said you must build a list. But the idea is obviously to build a responsive list so that you get a decent ROI from your email campaign.

    I feel like I've been wasting money on my autoresponder since I signed up for one. This month, I decided to pull the plug on my GetResponse account because I'm not making a single dollar back to cover the measly $15/month I've been paying.


    Before that, I was with aWeber for slightly more. Still not a dollar made using them either.

    I'm guessing I'm just not trying to sell enough. I'm not hardcore into affiliate marketing, so I don't push products at people too often. Mostly I just blog and offer freelance writing services, so this autoresponder thing seems to be a big waste for me.

    Sure, I have a couple of info products too but the email stuff doesn't seem to be effective for promoting that either.

    If anyone knows of something I am missing, I'd love to hear suggestions. But please don't repeat the same thing everyone else has said. I understand you may be getting great results, but how can I do this?
    I just jumped over to your site to have a look. One of the things that jumped out to me was that you don't have an "About Me" page. Maybe your subscribers don't really know anything about you and are hesitant to even buy. Understand this which I 'm sure you already know, that people buy from those they know, like, and/or trust. Let them into your life a little so they'll know more of who you are not just what you do. That might help a little. Just a thought.

    Also encourage interaction with them by asking them to give you feedback. It goes a long way when others jump on your site and see the social proof. You do have a very nice site by the way.
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    • Profile picture of the author ashloren
      Originally Posted by JHandy View Post

      I just jumped over to your site to have a look. One of the things that jumped out to me was that you don't have an "About Me" page. Maybe your subscribers don't really know anything about you and are hesitant to even buy. Understand this which I 'm sure you already know, that people buy from those they know, like, and/or trust. Let them into your life a little so they'll know more of who you are not just what you do. That might help a little. Just a thought.

      Also encourage interaction with them by asking them to give you feedback. It goes a long way when others jump on your site and see the social proof. You do have a very nice site by the way.
      We must have been on the same wavelength, because I was thinking the same thing after I posted this thread. I have just added an about page here, what do you think?
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    Originally Posted by ashloren View Post

    Maybe I'm doing something totally wrong, but I hear that phrase repeated over and over again and it's beginning to sound like fanaticism chanted meaninglessly.

    I understand that there are tons of businesses online which are making a killing with email marketing. But I'm definitely not one of them.

    I listened to everyone when they said you must build a list. But the idea is obviously to build a responsive list so that you get a decent ROI from your email campaign.

    I feel like I've been wasting money on my autoresponder since I signed up for one. This month, I decided to pull the plug on my GetResponse account because I'm not making a single dollar back to cover the measly $15/month I've been paying.

    Before that, I was with aWeber for slightly more. Still not a dollar made using them either.

    I'm guessing I'm just not trying to sell enough. I'm not hardcore into affiliate marketing, so I don't push products at people too often. Mostly I just blog and offer freelance writing services, so this autoresponder thing seems to be a big waste for me.

    Sure, I have a couple of info products too but the email stuff doesn't seem to be effective for promoting that either.

    If anyone knows of something I am missing, I'd love to hear suggestions. But please don't repeat the same thing everyone else has said. I understand you may be getting great results, but how can I do this?
    I looked at the website in your signature and it looks good BUT when I went looking for the opt in box the first thing that happened as I scrolled down to find it was my eye was quickly drawn away from your opt in box to the big orange button a bit beneath it asking me to register for something else on another site, not yours...if I'm not mistaken. A lot of people are probably being distracted by it and not signing up, hence low numbers on your list. Take that orange button away and the advert for the copyblogger free material and make your opt in box more noticeable.

    That should help increase sign ups. You could try a pop up opt in box too.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    How many leads do you have? How often are you emailing to your leads? How are you acquiring your leads? Your problem may lay in one of these questions.
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  • Profile picture of the author Beverley Boorer
    Can't you use mail chimp? it's free and I believe it is quite good - though I think someone may have mentioned once that you can't use it for affiliates. That brings me to the fact that you seem to be doing two things with one list. Do you have the list for affiliate stuff and then offer them freelance writing services? Seems to me that you are trying to market your services to the wrong people.
    And remember that you don't want to train your list to want freebies all the time. Maybe you should push the sale a bit more.
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    • Profile picture of the author StingGB
      Originally Posted by Beverley Boorer View Post

      Can't you use mail chimp? it's free and I believe it is quite good - though I think someone may have mentioned once that you can't use it for affiliates
      You can use Mailchimp for whatever you want if you collect your email addresses from your site independently without using their autoresponder. Just upload your emails to them and click that they subscribed voluntarily. You can have a database of up to 2000 with up to 6 mailshots per month free. If you can't make a bit of money from that setup you never will.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill Hugall
    Ok building a list is simple and when it is a targeted list you will find it easy to make sales when your list is high quality. There are a ton of ways to do this and countless posts on how. The money really comes in after the list is built.
    Now people run around screaming free content like that is how they do it. I have found that effective email marketing is completely different then what most people think it is. Most people will even tell you about heir 20% open rates. even a few big name warriors may come on here and pan me for saying that that is high. Truth is that globally the open rate is around 7% and then 20% of those people click. Now once you get good at this you can aim for way higher and you should but when you start out these are real numbers and you can make some good money with them.
    Free content as I mentioned is misunderstood these days. you don't not run around saying free, free, free, come and see my free stuff. This is how you create a list of freebie seekers.
    Simply communicate with your list and keep them updated on what is happening with you and your business. When you come across a good tip, build some hype with it and get people excited about it. This is called event marketing and it is way better than anything out there. IMO This also works very well for affiliate offers and if you can add some bonuses that is even better.

    When all is said and done it isn't the list that makes you money. It is your ability to get your list hungry and excited that makes you money. Building the list is the easy part, being original and putting yourself out there is the hard part. I hope that helps good luck
    : )
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    • Profile picture of the author LittleKev
      [QUOTE=bilkat19;7702137]Ok building a list is simple

      No, when you are starting out, building a list is not simple. I am in the same position as the original op, except I have no list at all and I have just cancelled my aweber account. To build a list from absolute scratch is not easy as you have to promote your website/blog like crazy and with much more competition than ever before, it is getting harder and harder for newbies. As for trying to rank in the search engines for a new site with google changing the rules so often, getting your new site recognized is very difficult.
      When you are not an authority or an expert on any given subject it is hard to think that you are going to get many followers. That's from a newbie's perspective.
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  • Profile picture of the author ByEdvin
    I had the same problem when I started out.
    A lot is about were your traffic is coming from (you need targeted traffic)
    Second thing is that you have to have a converting sales funnel ( I do not men one a day follow ups ) but it can be.
    Try to think that your subscribers are your best friends... do not sell to them just recomend stuff that works. Allso if you think that they are your best friends you are not going to promote BS products that does not work to them. Try to make them succeed.

    You still have to have an autoresponder so I recomend that you go for mailchimp that is free.
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  • Profile picture of the author espresso
    You can use server side software for your autorespnder that's what i do
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  • Profile picture of the author Malcolm Thomas
    Don't give up. The money is in the list. Focus on getting more subscribers into your sales funnel and continue to test and tweak your email campaigns and your sales letters. Good luck
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  • Profile picture of the author RachelLily
    the list is just your guide. nevertheless, its just a list. if you won't follow it, its useless. its just there to get you back on track once you lost your way. still you have to work your way through. but most importantly, follow your list.
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  • Profile picture of the author howtogurus
    As a veteran marketer (I have been selling info products online since 1998) I have found that a list is extremely valuable. But you have to remember that you will really have 2 lists. The first one is a list of prospects, it sounds like that is what you have been building. This is a needed list, but there is no money there until you make a sale. Once you have made that sale the lead should be moved to your customer list. This is where the real money is. Most of our list sales come from repeat customers. Getting that first sale from a lead can be really hard, but once you make that first sale, additional sales becomes easy. So stick with the list and give it time.

    On the Autoresponder, no real need until your list gets bigger. The real benefits from autoresponders are to save you time sending out emails and to help you maintain your list/lists. If you only have 150 no real need for help on maintaining the list. If you don't do much marketing to your list then no real need for the autoresponder there either. You will know when you need one, when you wake up in the morning and say "I wish I didn't have to spend an hour today handling all of the email stuff." When you reach that point you will also have the income to afford the autoresponder service.
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    • Profile picture of the author darkonetoo
      Originally Posted by howtogurus View Post


      On the Autoresponder, no real need until your list gets bigger. The real benefits from autoresponders are to save you time sending out emails and to help you maintain your list/lists. If you only have 150 no real need for help on maintaining the list. If you don't do much marketing to your list then no real need for the autoresponder there either. You will know when you need one, when you wake up in the morning and say "I wish I didn't have to spend an hour today handling all of the email stuff." When you reach that point you will also have the income to afford the autoresponder service.
      I couldn't agree more.

      I didn't use an autoresponder until I had over 750 names on it. UGGG! It is a real time drain emailing a list that size - 20 names at a time - since my email provider would only allow that many in the bulk mail mode.

      And in additional response to how much you can make with a small list, I made $9,200 from one email to my 3 month old, 515 person email list - again, emailing in sectors of 20 - after prepping my customers with useful information 3 times a week for those months before I made an offer.

      Email marketing is nothing but "marketing". The best marketing is all about the relationship YOU feel and how the customer feels when he is in contact with you, whether they originate it or you do.

      REAL profits only happen when you can automatically trigger a trusted response from your clients. There are real secrets that only you'll be able to discover with your own clients.

      The best business relationship you can get exists when finally, the people on your list don't want to buy anything until they check with you first. Very doable, but it takes time and the desire to do it.

      DarkOneToo
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  • Profile picture of the author Jgmurray
    Ashly,

    Classic list building means generally speaking offering your potential subscribers some kind of value in return for their email.

    Presumably, at this point, your subscriber has found whatever it is your offering (i.e. your copyrighting course for example ) to be of sufficient value that they are willing to give up their privacy and give you their info.

    That's a BIG DEAL. And it needs to be treated as such. But also consider this, people are interested in what you have to say - and also products that you think are effective for them.

    You can't be afraid or embarrassed to sell something if you want to make money doing this, you have to be a tad shameless. But it doesn't mean you have to sell snake oil, people want value - give them value, and they will buy.

    A lesson I have learned the hard way is that you also can't give away the farm and hope that people will buy from you for buyings sake. You have to ask for a sale and do it fairly often. Otherwise they get "trained" to not buy. That's bad.

    As far as your site is concerned, there should only be ONE signup form and it should be yours. You may also want to offer something a bit more concrete then 'all the latest news' - even if you just say it differently. Get rid of the copy blogger offer all together. Offer it later in your email series for example.

    I would put my signup form right under that beautiful graphic of the girl next door and move the social media icons down further. It doesn't have to be gaudy with arrows and flashing lights, just highly visible.

    Your site, in my opinion, is beautiful and you are clearly talented. Tempt people a little more to join, be a bit more shameless, ask for the sale, and you will probably see both mailing list subs and conversions increase considerably.

    One OTHER piece of advice. If it's a money thing and you can write, develop a separate niche for making money and keep the writing/copyrighting as your 'first love' - that's why I do, it doesn't always have to be your MAIN PASSION as some will insist.

    In fact most successful IM'rs are in many niches.

    Hope this helps!

    Good Luck!
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    • Profile picture of the author Bryan
      Originally Posted by Jgmurray View Post

      A lesson I have learned the hard way is that you also can't give away the farm and hope that people will buy from you for buyings sake. You have to ask for a sale and do it fairly often. Otherwise they get "trained" to not buy. That's bad.
      Glenn from Viral Marketing : ViperChill and Pat Flynn from Passive Income: The Smart Passive Income Blog are killing it online, and they never hard sell and give away the farm. As well, they have more traffic than most Guroos without affiliates, and they convert buyers better than the many internet marketers that use hype and hardsell tactics.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jgmurray
        Originally Posted by Bryan View Post

        Glenn from Viral Marketing : ViperChill and Pat Flynn from Passive Income: The Smart Passive Income Blog are killing it online, and they never hard sell and give away the farm. As well, they have more traffic than most Guroos without affiliates, and they convert buyers better than the many internet marketers that use hype and hardsell tactics.
        Fair enough. I guess my point is that you have to ask for what you want and can't just hope that people will do it.

        Pat asks you like this page, join his list, download his podcast, etc. etc. he is very good at doing it.

        His free information serves to establish _credibility_ and his blog posts and income story serve to establish _curiosity_. Two key points to lure an interested buyer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert02011
    I think if you write some good content or get someone to do it for you and put some seo or keywords in the title and the first sentence or you post you will have success in time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Abhik
    Indeed the money IS in the list, only if you have a pretty responsive list. Now, *responsiveness* of a list actually depends on many things.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mormo
    If you put pics in the emails I will open them. Just sayin'!
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  • Profile picture of the author NewParadigm
    It's about building authority so people come to you as opposed to being a clingy anklebiter marketer. It's a subtle different but huge.

    Look at two bars next to each other. One has a line outside, the other has a guy yelling at you saying come on in, there is plenty of room! Which one intrigues you more?
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  • Profile picture of the author ymest
    HI there,

    I am on the same boat here! Spending 19 bucks a month and to be honest, it's all my fault! I need to really dig into this list building thing! I recently got a really good course, that I have not had time to implement yet because of ghostwriting assignment but 2013 is the year when I take care of my list...

    I'll keep you posted!

    Good luck with it all! I think that once you get the hang of it, send targeted emails to your followers, you'll start seeing results and if your list increases in the meantime, then all the better!

    Good luck with it all!

    Yoan
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  • Profile picture of the author MartinPlatt
    There are a massive number of ways to fail with e-mail list building. Did you test anything to see if there were better ways? Like for example, you suspect that you're not selling enough, so split test one as you currently are, one with more sales. See what the market tells you.

    How many people did you have in your list, and how were you getting them there? If you were not giving them something of value, and were asking for subscription based on 'keeping up to date with what is going on on my blog" then you probably won't have a massive number of subscribers. That is what an RSS feed is for!

    What was your squeeze page like? Do you have one? What is you opt-in like? Is it a plain, default one from the auto-responder? If it is, then that's not attention grabbing, and probably won't help either. Test it at least.

    What about your e-mails? Did you use attention grabbing headlines? If so, how do you know that you did? Were you testing different scenarios? Have you been watching your inbox to find what others do that works? Then tested that?

    At the moment, what you've said is a little like getting rid of your car because it's broken down, instead of working your way through repairing it.

    Now you definitely won't make money from your list, or ever make it work.
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    • Profile picture of the author ashloren
      Originally Posted by MartinPlatt View Post


      What about your e-mails? Did you use attention grabbing headlines? If so, how do you know that you did? Were you testing different scenarios? Have you been watching your inbox to find what others do that works? Then tested that?

      At the moment, what you've said is a little like getting rid of your car because it's broken down, instead of working your way through repairing it.

      Now you definitely won't make money from your list, or ever make it work.
      Here are a couple of examples of emails I sent out while I was using AWeber.

      Kindle Tips
      Copyblogger Email

      As for the car analogy, I would never try to fix my own car since I don't know what I'm doing and have no desire to be a mechanic. I'd take it to someone who knows how to fix it.
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      • Profile picture of the author MartinPlatt
        The Kindle one - I can see that you've explained what the product contains, but not in terms of what your subscribers might be interested in. You have listed features, but not how they will benefit the reader.

        There doesn't appear to be a link between the content that you're saying you're pumped about, and the action. I can see the register button, but what if I'm not all that bright? What do I do, and why?
        Perhaps try something like 'Click the "Yes, I want Free Access" button to get access instantly.

        You need to think in terms of the problems that you are trying to solve for your readers. Maybe start by calling out the problems so that the reader identifies with what you're talking about, then how you have used the product (if you have) and how it has the following features with the following benefits. These benefits completely get rid of your problems. I would only link to the sales page, rather than putting the buy button on the form personally. Let the vendor sell it for you.

        The car analogy - you would take it to get it fixed - not throw it away - that was the point I was making I don't think I'd try to fix my own car either!
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  • Profile picture of the author troy23
    I only tend to stay on the lists of the big name IM marketers or anyone offering
    good tips such as traffic tips.
    Anyone else I unsubscribe.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ross Dalangin
    You have to focus on the conversion and email series so that you won't end up doing the autoresponder provider. I did that before because I don't know what are the things needed. I used aweber and imnica mail and now end up using getresponse and now I'm so happy with the results. I test everything and study every process so that whatever I spend will get double in profit or even more. Your email series with the help of selling stuff, ad swap and solo ads will pay your expenses. After you set up your system, all you have to do is to get more traffic.

    Ross
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  • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
    If your list isn't responsive, then here's a few things to
    look at...

    1. The Quality of Your Subscribers

    Are you getting subscribers onto your list who are highly
    qualified prospects for the products and services you want
    to sell?

    2. The Relevance of Your Offer

    If you're building a list of quality subscribers and they're
    still not responding, then take a closer look at what you're
    offering them.

    Are your offers highly relevant to them?

    Look at how you can make your offers more irresistible.

    3. Quality of Your Copy

    If your list and offer are right and they're still not responding
    then take a look at the quality of the copy you're writing.

    Are you following the proven copywriting formulas?

    Dedicated to mutual success,

    Shaun
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    .

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    • Profile picture of the author Mormo
      Your about me page was good and got me interested in buying.

      I couldn't find on your site though what you charge or how to get a quote.

      Also would be nice to have a link about the how to sell adult material article.
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      • Profile picture of the author ashloren
        Originally Posted by Mormo View Post

        Your about me page was good and got me interested in buying.

        I couldn't find on your site though what you charge or how to get a quote.

        Also would be nice to have a link about the how to sell adult material article.
        Done and done.
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  • Profile picture of the author skyjoe76
    Your list is small to have any results.

    I used mailchimp to begin collecting list. When it's time for me to grow bigger, I paid for Getresponse, and imported the list over. Aweber doesn't allow importing without confirmation. Mailchimp is one way you can go to reduce your monthly running cost.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Unless your business model depends on a pre-programmed, timed sequence of emails, you do not need an autoresponder. There, I said it. Let the stone-throwing begin.

      Before affiliates for AR companies convinced everybody that getting email delivered without their chosen service was impossible, people used mailing lists.

      Ashly, if all you want to do is send broadcast emails, most hosting accounts allow 'unlimited' email lists. Look in your cpanel for 'mailing lists' and set up what they call an announcement list. That means only you can send messages to the list.

      I took a look at your site and your 'About' page. You have style, and the personality you show in your About copy will make some people really like you. Some won't, but that's okay.

      The main site seems to be a hodge-podge of content and affiliate offers with no real organization. If you want to promote your writing service, structure your content to do that. And your opt-in box should be very prominent. Maybe I'm being sexist, but a smaller version of the 'girl in red' icon of yourself above the form would be quite eye-catching.

      I looked at the sample emails, and I agree that there really isn't any attempt to sell. You came closer to selling in the one about the free course, but you were so vague that it sounded phony. I'd wager that when you sent that email, you really had no idea what was actually in it - just that it was new, free and had a way to monetize somewhere downstream.
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      • Profile picture of the author ashloren
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        Unless your business model depends on a pre-programmed, timed sequence of emails, you do not need an autoresponder. There, I said it. Let the stone-throwing begin.

        Before affiliates for AR companies convinced everybody that getting email delivered without their chosen service was impossible, people used mailing lists.

        Ashly, if all you want to do is send broadcast emails, most hosting accounts allow 'unlimited' email lists. Look in your cpanel for 'mailing lists' and set up what they call an announcement list. That means only you can send messages to the list.

        I took a look at your site and your 'About' page. You have style, and the personality you show in your About copy will make some people really like you. Some won't, but that's okay.

        The main site seems to be a hodge-podge of content and affiliate offers with no real organization. If you want to promote your writing service, structure your content to do that. And your opt-in box should be very prominent. Maybe I'm being sexist, but a smaller version of the 'girl in red' icon of yourself above the form would be quite eye-catching.

        I looked at the sample emails, and I agree that there really isn't any attempt to sell. You came closer to selling in the one about the free course, but you were so vague that it sounded phony. I'd wager that when you sent that email, you really had no idea what was actually in it - just that it was new, free and had a way to monetize somewhere downstream.
        John, I appreciate you coming out and saying what I had suspected was true. I have gone into cpanel and attempted to setup an announcement list, hopefully I did it correctly, lol. Thanks for the tip, much appreciated.

        You're right about the email, I was basically just a fan of Copyblogger so I knew their stuff would be worthwhile but I didn't know much more about it.

        Reducing size of thumbnail on about page now.
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      • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        Ashly, if all you want to do is send broadcast emails, most hosting accounts allow 'unlimited' email lists. Look in your cpanel for 'mailing lists' and set up what they call an announcement list. That means only you can send messages to the list.
        Sending mass email from a shared server is a good way to get blacklisted real quick! (even if your emails are 100% legit). The biggest advantage of using a service like Aweber and GetResponse is that they have good relationships with all of the major ISP's, which is why they can maintain (relatively) good delivery rates.

        If you send mass emails out from your own server... unless you want to spend half your working hours trying to keep your server whitelisted at all of the major ISP's... your delivery rates will drop like a rock in no time.

        $20/mo. is a tiny price to pay for good delivery rates.
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  • Profile picture of the author footbag_man
    Email marketing and email sales copy are a skill in themselves.. You cant just launch in and give it a go and then quit when you dont make sales..

    Also it sounds like you had less than 500 subscribers on your lists as you are only paying $15 per month.. That really isnt a big enough sample size
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  • Profile picture of the author Batags
    Does anyone else see the point in this post? Or is it just me, BTW i think she has a fantastic website that brings me to all her other great offers, and i do like to have extra lunch money

    I cant imagine why she would not have a list! With all that info she provides, You are A fantastic marketer -- kudos
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    Your site confuses me, is it supposed to be promoting your writing services or a make money online blog?

    It seems to be a bit of both and that doesn't really work.
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  • Profile picture of the author chiukev
    How about focusing on building that list first? Once you have a big enough list, the money will come.

    Since you're already a blogger, that would be the best way to drive traffic to your squeeze page.

    One thing I have to say though, if you're doing all this to make money then making money should be your focus when blogging. You can blog about anything, just keep in mind that in the end it's gotta make you some money. When you think this way, you'll start doing things that will move you in the right direction
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    Can You handle this much TRAFFIC?...for FREE?....and generate 2000+ leads day... after day... after day!
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  • Profile picture of the author tac88
    See that is where you are going wrong ! Affiliate marking is not selling !
    You want to be showing someone value and by doing this you want to show them the result and how to do something that they are looking for.
    So show them how you use that particular thing and the benefits that you received when you do it like this meaning showing them how .

    Buy doing this you are not selling you are recommending what worked for you and will work for them ..
    I hope that I explained that so you understand.

    I suggest that you get on some well know marketers lists and see how they do it !
    Someone like Frank Kern! He is the master at it !
    He sells in every email and gives value first.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by Brandon Tanner View Post

      Sending mass email from a shared server is a good way to get blacklisted real quick! (even if your emails are 100% legit). The biggest advantage of using a service like Aweber and GetResponse is that they have good relationships with all of the major ISP's, which is why they can maintain (relatively) good delivery rates.

      If you send mass emails out from your own server... unless you want to spend half your working hours trying to keep your server whitelisted at all of the major ISP's... your delivery rates will drop like a rock in no time.

      $20/mo. is a tiny price to pay for good delivery rates.
      Depending on how you define "mass email", I might agree with you.

      Sending thousands of emails daily is much different that sending a couple of hundred every week or so to a list of freelance prospects. Especially if one is sending them via a program residing on just about every hosting account on the market.
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  • Profile picture of the author Qamar
    Hi Ashloren, I can tell you why you are not making money from your list. Since you are asking this, I might as well help to point out where you went wrong. I hope after this you will re activate your account and rectify this mistakes.

    The most glaring mistake that you did is not promoting products frequent enough to your list. In fact, I hardly see anything being promoted by you to your list.

    You give away too much contents for free and always linked your email to your blog for free content. This is suppose to be good but you are overdoing it without trying to monetize enough.

    You see, majority of people subscribed in anyone's list knew that they will be marketed to. They expect to be marketed to but you are not doing this enough. You seems too shy to market to them, I suppose.

    One more thing is that you are not sending emails frequent enough to stand out from the other marketers that your list is in. Your email is going out too far apart from each other in order to create an impact to your subscribers.

    So that's about all that I feel you should change in order to see improvements in email marketing.

    What?
    How do I know all these?

    Well it is because I was in your list, that's why!




    Zul
    PS: I think your last email was about getting to know each other right? or something like that if I am not mistaken.
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