Help: How-to for fiction writers Niche?

16 replies
Alexa Smith, JohnMcCabe, and MYOB have been extremely helpful. I've read pages and pages of discussion from the three of them on the forms.

Still I'm frozen with analysis paralysis.
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I would very much appreciate if you could tell me. Do you believe I'm heading in the right direction? (Yay/Nay)
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I would like to build (long term) an authority website for (independent) fiction writers that would cover in great depth everything from the actual craft of writing, to the promotion, and marketing.

I know I would cover a range of topics (craft, creativity, motivation, writers block, outlining, book promotion) but always with the end user/reader in mind.

I.E Does this have value specifically for an (independent) fiction writer.

I will come up with the content by sharing my experiences with my own fiction writing (what has worked or hasn't), interviewing other fiction writers, and interweaving it with what I've learned from researching/reading other books on the specific subject.

A few examples that give an idea of what I'm thinking are:

The Creative Penn
Advanced Fiction Writing Home Page


My (affiliate) Income could come from some of these but not all over time:

Writing/Productivy Software: Outlining (Scrivener), Mind Maps, Apps (Rescue Time)
Author Platform Tools: Web Hosting, Email Services, Wordpress Themes
Audio Equipment (for recording audio books):
Books/Courses/Membership Sites: Marketing, Craft, Publishing
Consulting/Services: Book Design, Editing, Coaching
My own fiction books

I've looked far and wide for affiliate programs and there seem to not be much on click bank for what I'm looking for but many individual bloggers seem to have some promising stuff and these two stores below seem to have no shortage of info products.

Online Screenwriting Courses: Online Screenwriting Classes & Tips
Writing Books: Fiction, Creative Writing & Getting Published | WritersDigestShop


So in a nutshell

1. Initially narrow focus on my website (like only writing articles about outlining) but then expand on and cover more range of topics
2. Write very in-depth evergreen articles (1500+ words) that will be valuable years down the line
3. Leverage them and get them syndicated at as many places as possible by building relationships with other publishers. (I.E might write a long article on how to be more creative that while beneficial to fiction writers could possibly also be syndicated to a blog/newsletter for guitarists)
4. Build a list/trust
5. Promote a wide range of things that I've personally vetted/find useful for that particular audience.
6. Be consistent

I'm passionate and interested in the subject but worried I'm going into a niche that doesn't have enough commercial potential.

Am I being silly? Make the website or back to the drawing board?

Thanks,
Alex
#alexa smith #fiction #fiction writer #howto #johnmccabe #myob #niche #writers
  • Profile picture of the author Rainmaking
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    • Profile picture of the author markr1989
      You're completely right. I know the best way to truly learn this is to blow away as opposed to continue running in circles but it would be nice to know if I'm heading head first into a brick wall from day one.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by markr1989 View Post

    I'm passionate and interested in the subject but worried I'm going into a niche that doesn't have enough commercial potential.
    Yes indeed. That would be my worry, too.

    As a wannabe fiction-writer myself, I hang out occasionally in a few writers' forums and have at least a passing familiarity with "sites like that" (I know well three of the four you've linked to above), but I have no idea what the commercial potential is. I think you need to ask people like Joanna Penn, Randy Ingermason, and so on? Or at least to discuss it with the experienced members (or better still, perhaps, the owner/staff?) of the Absolute Write forum (rather than any of the other writers' forums I've seen, anyway).

    You've clearly given it a lot of thought, and identified plenty of potential monetization possibilities. This isn't in any way a criticism, but it's a hugely ambitious thing to want to try.

    Originally Posted by markr1989 View Post

    Am I being silly? Make the website or back to the drawing board?
    Sorry - no idea at all. I'm responding primarily because I was mentioned in the OP and you're called Alex and were apparently born in the same year as me.

    (I hope you do it, because I'll be a visitor/possible customer anyway - good luck!).
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    • Profile picture of the author markr1989
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Yes indeed. That would be my worry, too.
      I think you need to ask people like Joanna Penn.
      You have a good point. I was able to dig this up...

      Lessons Learned From 1 Year As A Fulltime Author Entrepreneur | The Creative Penn

      (apparently she made about 25% of her income directly through courses and the other 25% through speaking) and was making enough to walk away from her career after 3-4 years. So maybe that isn't so bad. Again so many different variables.

      BUT I will actually contact these people individually. Hopefully frame it in such as way as being a potential ally/partner down the line.


      Originally Posted by
      You're called Alex and were apparently born in the same year as me. [IMG

      http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/grinser/grinning-smiley-003.gif[/IMG]
      YES Columbo! Just imagine yourself without any cash and an inferiority complex! :p Haha. Time to get off the sidelines of life and "CRUSH IT" Gary V style.

      One more question for you article syndicators out there that I haven't been able to figure out on my own.

      While I can understand blogs/websites not necessarily needing new content aren't they NOT going to want to post the same article at the same time all over the web.

      For example if I'm a customer/surfer in the "writing niche" and I go to all three of these websites and I see the exact same article isn't that something these other publishers don't want to happen to them?

      OR is it more likely is it that you post it on your website first and then let everyone know on your "approved syndication list" they can use this piece of content WHENEVER they want and over the next couple of months they might put it in their rotation or whenever?

      Would it be wise to not only email them the plain text article with the link back to my website but also have a "For Publishers" page that lists all the articles anyone can grab for syndication with an explanation that they just need to have the link back?

      I mean in my limited experience I see guest posts by prominent bloggers all the time but I have a hard time believing someone like Tim Ferriss would ever post something that was posted other places. Is it a matter of dealing with A-list publications/bloggers slightly differently? Tailoring your article for their audience to make it "unique" and the other 80% the same exact article. I.E They get "special treatment."

      Okay that was a mouthful. But that's everything...REALLY!
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by markr1989 View Post

        Yes, interesting. Well, maybe promising?

        Originally Posted by markr1989 View Post

        While I can understand blogs/websites not necessarily needing new content aren't they NOT going to want to post the same article at the same time all over the web.
        Generally, they don't care. They want content because it strikes them in such a way that they want to share it with their own readers/visitors/subscribers/traffic because of its quality.

        There are people who imagine that "bloggers won't re-publish articles already published" but anyone doing a bit of research can see for themselves that it's just nonsense: plenty of people syndicate articles from Ezine Articles and from other places, too. All you have to do is find top-quality articles and see how widely some of them have been published. Not everyone thinks of their business in terms of "search engine traffic only". :p

        There are always a few people who - in spite of the enormous and consistent lengths Google goes to, to clarify this - will imagine that syndicated content is "duplicate content" (:rolleyes and that they'll somehow "get in trouble from Google" if they re-publish it, but one can just ignore them (recommended, because it's certainly a pain in the neck trying to re-educate them!).

        However, you can also send articles to people whose sites announce that they don't accept previously published work and find that they'll publish it anyway. If they want the article enough, they'll sometimes change their minds, I think. (I haven't done this a lot, but again, I know people who have).

        Originally Posted by markr1989 View Post

        For example if I'm a customer/surfer in the "writing niche" and I go to all three of these websites and I see the exact same article isn't that something these other publishers don't want to happen to them?
        Yes, it might be ... but that's perhaps more because the owners of those sites may see you as a competitor? Competing sites, in any niche, are hardly going to sydnicate your articles? (I think this is a problem that people in "IM niches" have).

        Originally Posted by markr1989 View Post

        OR is it more likely is it that you post it on your website first and then let everyone know on your "approved syndication list" they can use this piece of content WHENEVER they want and over the next couple of months they might put it in their rotation or whenever?
        Don't know - only time and experience will tell (not my niche!).

        Originally Posted by markr1989 View Post

        Would it be wise to not only email them the plain text article with the link back to my website but also have a "For Publishers" page that lists all the articles anyone can grab for syndication with an explanation that they just need to have the link back?
        I've never done this at all. I know there are people who do. It doesn't suit me. I don't like to do anything to draw potential publishers' attention to my site at all. (I have a link to my landing-page, of course, so they can find it when they check, which I imagine many do, but that's all). I want to send them every individual article they publish and build a relationship with them.
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        • Profile picture of the author AuthorMagic
          This is Markr1989 For some reason I have two warrior accounts?! (I'm an idiot)

          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post


          There are always a few people who - in spite of the enormous and consistent lengths Google goes to, to clarify this - will imagine that syndicated content is "duplicate content" (:rolleyes and that they'll somehow "get in trouble from Google" if they re-publish it, but one can just ignore them (recommended, because it's certainly a pain in the neck trying to re-educate them!).
          Thanks to you guys luckily I'm no longer one of THOSE people. Smelly! Hah
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Worst case scenario, start small and work up.

    There is no way that you can be everything you want to be right out of the gate, so focus on a tighter niche of content.

    As you have traffic and revenue coming in to support continued growth, then invest more into your website.

    Personally, I know there is a huge market for people who want to become better fiction writers and sell their fiction work. The only question is whether they will buy from you, and whether you have the skills to get people to your website and keep their attention once they arrive.

    On the monetization side, I think you are thinking too small and not looking at the bigger picture of what is available out there in the world to sell from your site as an affiliate.

    Perhaps, a good monetization strategy for your site would be to hook yourself up as an Amazon affiliate, and then personally review each of the books available in Amazon that address the needs of your target audience.

    For this niche, I definitely would not be looking at ClickBank products. I would be looking at Amazon products, and I would be looking at other affiliate networks and individual companies that run their own affiliate programs.
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    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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    • Profile picture of the author AuthorMagic
      This is Markr1989 For some reason I have two warrior accounts?! (I'm an idiot)..and If I stick around here I don't want people getting in the habit of calling me mark. hah :p

      By the will Bill I should mention you've been quite the goldmine yourself. I should of given you a shout out thanks. I appreciate for responding. Everyone really.

      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      Worst case scenario, start small and work up.

      There is no way that you can be everything you want to be right out of the gate, so focus on a tighter niche of content.
      Exactly. I plan on focusing in on specific area until I believe I've nailed the subject then slowly expand the site like the growing rings of a tree.

      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      The only question is whether they will buy from you, and whether you have the skills to get people to your website and keep their attention once they arrive.
      You're right but if there is any potential and I'm willing to play a long game. I'm not worried about that. Only that I win an empty mine. Haha.

      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      Perhaps, a good monetization strategy for your site would be to hook yourself up as an Amazon affiliate, and then personally review each of the books available in Amazon that address the needs of your target audience.
      I like that idea but in browsing over some other forum topics people were saying that people that buy books from amazon from affiliate links rarely buy more expensive priced products on amazon with the 24 hour window period and that is where the game is won.

      Is that true? Otherwise wouldn't I be getting a lot of checks in the mail...only they would be 5 cents. :p
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      For this niche, I definitely would not be looking at ClickBank products. I would be looking at Amazon products, and I would be looking at other affiliate networks and individual companies that run their own affiliate programs.
      I'm with you there. I was trying to brainstorm all the possible things I could sell an audience given that I can grow it...of course I'm not very original.

      I wanted to make sure there was enough potential product before I spent thousands of hours building my digital castle.

      If its appropriate I was planning on setting up a progress/journal and try to update it weekly/biweekly on what I've gotten done. It can be lonely in RL when trying to meet motivated/ambitious people.
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by AuthorMagic View Post

        I like that idea but in browsing over some other forum topics people were saying that people that buy books from amazon from affiliate links rarely buy more expensive priced products on amazon with the 24 hour window period and that is where the game is won.

        Is that true? Otherwise wouldn't I be getting a lot of checks in the mail...only they would be 5 cents. :p

        First piece of advice: Don't listen to idiots. :p

        The size of your checks will be determined by a few factors...

        1. You will get anywhere from 4% to 8% on the sale of a book, depending on your monthly sales volume.

        2. The price of the book being sold. If you are selling 99 cent books, you will see commissions on the sale of a book of between 4c and 8c. But most of the best books in this niche will be priced at between $9 and $50, so you will be seeing commissions from 4% x $9 = 36c and 8% x $50 = $4.00.

        3. The amount of traffic volume you can push through your site, and by extension, the number of people buying books based on your recommendations. If you suck at traffic, don't count on the money that hasn't arrived yet. If you can get 10,000 visitors to your site each month and 1% of those buy something from you, that would amount to 100 sales per month.

        4. When you start creating your own book titles for fiction writers to sell in the online bookstores, you can put a link to your website inside of your books, and as a result, you might just find that your traffic will go up and your sales conversion rate will also go up since more of your traffic will be better targeted.
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        Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
        Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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        • Profile picture of the author AuthorMagic
          Originally Posted by tpw View Post

          First piece of advice: Don't listen to idiots. :p
          You're a cheeky ******* Bill. Hahaha.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    Originally Posted by markr1989 View Post

    Alexa Smith, JohnMcCabe, and MYOB have been extremely helpful. I've read pages and pages of discussion from the three of them on the forms.

    Still I'm frozen with analysis paralysis.
    Others are already giving you great answers. I just wanted to
    jump in on this one point with a fact:

    Action kills fear.


    You've studied a lot, and put together a plan.
    But plans are two-dimensional, and we don't live in a 2D world.
    Get started, make some mistakes, own them and correct them.
    You can always make "continuous improvement" a part of your plan.

    Get started. Right now!

    "Pull the trigger and ride the bullet."
    --Roy H. Williams
    Signature

    The bartender says: "We don't serve faster-than-light particles here."

    ...A tachyon enters a bar.

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    • Profile picture of the author AuthorMagic
      This is Markr1989 For some reason I have two warrior accounts?! (I'm an idiot)

      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post


      Action kills fear.
      I've learned the hard way what INaction does...The same thing that happens when you let cement dry. Haha.

      Thanks Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author lotsofsnow
    Originally Posted by markr1989 View Post

    I would like to build (long term) an authority website for (independent) fiction writers that would cover in great depth everything from the actual craft of writing, to the promotion, and marketing.
    The easiest way to accomplish this is to become an expert first.

    Write a book, make it a bestseller and then start your web site.

    It is not that hard to create a bestseller. Just do it.

    Once you have accomplished that people will trust you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Louise M
    Hi Alex,
    I think you can make a business out of anything! If this is your passion, then go for it. You have the right approach of starting with a narrower focus then expanding from there. So why would it be silly?

    My opinion is to make sure your initial focus hooks your market. I'm wondering what do independent fiction writers really need or want? What's their biggest problem? Provide a solution to that and start with that 'solution focus' first, to attract and entice them to your site. If you're offering them a solution and they hear about, they'll come. Then you move on to the other fiction writing topics.

    You also have to make sure you're getting readers who want to spend money. You'd have to do more research, but just Googling 'how to write fiction' doesn't turn up a lot of ads in the results; 'get published' however shows tons of ads in the results (which indicates there's a market out there). That says to me that you'd want to focus your marketing on more profitable writing-related topics like publishing. Once you get enough traffic, you can also throw ads in the mix. Something to consider as you do article marketing. Guest posting is another technique you can try.

    I say go for it. Just make it work!
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    louisemandar.com Starting An Online Business Doing What You Love!
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    • Profile picture of the author AuthorMagic
      Originally Posted by Louise M View Post

      Hi Alex,
      I think you can make a business out of anything! If this is your passion, then go for it.
      I've always been divided on this. You can look to successful people like MJ DeMarco that sold Limos.com for a cool couple million and he'll tell you passion is for Ramen-bottom rung of society losers working at walmart.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCLa...q8XElA&index=4

      Yet other people I respect like Alan Watts makes a simple twist of logic that its stupid to do things purely for money because you will be

      "Spending your time doing things you don't like so that you can make money...that is so you can keep doing things you don't like. Which is STUPID.

      Better to have a short life doing what you like doing then a long life spent in a miserable way.

      ...Of course if you really like what are doing you can eventually become a master at it and get a good fee for doing it. "

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY50vvMjX_o

      I'd imagine maybe they're both on the extreme and so I'm trying to meet a middle ground where there is potential to create enough value and things that people actually care about yet still have genuine interest in it.

      Its an art. One I've not grasped.


      Originally Posted by Louise M View Post

      My opinion is to make sure your initial focus hooks your market. I'm wondering what do independent fiction writers really need or want? What's their biggest problem? Provide a solution to that and start with that 'solution focus' first, to attract and entice them to your site. If you're offering them a solution and they hear about, they'll come. Then you move on to the other fiction writing topics.
      Haha.That is something I also stumbled on too.

      Yet funny thing...what do you think the key is to becoming published traditionally or getting noticed independently.:confused:

      Writing well. Period.

      Time after time I see that fiction authors that aren't absolute lottery ticket winners that happen to be making good money (J.A Konrath, Dean Wesley Smith, Ect) had wrote millions of words and spent years learning there craft before they made a time.

      Yet it is a good point that I will have to educate my readers on the importance of learning craft and developing their skill because it isn't initially what people are looking for.

      What did Eban Pagan say? "Sell them what they want...give them what they need.":p

      Thanks by the way!
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    Writing fiction is not a step-by-step, formulaic process. If it was, machines could do it.

    How many successful writers of fiction spend any time at all teaching writing methods?

    If you want to help fiction writers, get people to your site who have the knowledge to honestly critique a fledgling writer's work.

    I can see a good site on marketing your writing being successful.

    I partly disagree with this...

    Yes, fiction writing isn't something that can be put into a step-by-step, formulaic process...

    But fiction writers are always looking for better methods to define their characters, write dialog, and describe those background items that will contribute to their overall story arc.

    Other fiction writers are going to want to know how to write sub-stories into their main story arc, and that comes to be with a technique rather than a formula.

    In the WSO marketplace, fiction writers buy a lot of products that help them to brainstorm a story line or the characters relevant to the story.

    Fiction writers need help with their writing and their marketing, the same as non-fiction writers do. They just need slightly different instruction to get them where they want to go.
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    Bill Platt, Oklahoma USA, PlattPublishing.com
    Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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    • Profile picture of the author AuthorMagic
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      I partly disagree with this...

      Yes, fiction writing isn't something that can be put into a step-by-step, formulaic process...

      But fiction writers are always looking for better methods to define their characters, write dialog, and describe those background items that will contribute to their overall story arc.

      Other fiction writers are going to want to know how to write sub-stories into their main story arc, and that comes to be with a technique rather than a formula.

      In the WSO marketplace, fiction writers buy a lot of products that help them to brainstorm a story line or the characters relevant to the story.

      Fiction writers need help with their writing and their marketing, the same as non-fiction writers do. They just need slightly different instruction to get them where they want to go.
      I agree with Bill. I understand that writing isn't formulaic process but neither is learning to play the guitar, run a business, becoming successful with women and yet they are all taught around the clock...or anything worth doing.

      Writing it is a skill and like all skills it needs to be practiced FIRST HAND. True. Trial and error. Blood sweat and tears. All that good stuff.

      Yet there is a methodology.

      Most writing/genres do follow certain conventions (three act structure) ect and the point of any of this education isn't to stifle or box a writer into a formula but help push them forward so that they don't keep reinventing the wheel, learn from those who came before them, and in time expand on the genre ect.
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