Internet Marketing is a Guru Business!

by milan
31 replies
Here is why IM is a guru business.
Like it or not it's:

BECAUSE YOU WANT IT TO BE

It's that simple.
This is not a rant, I just want to share this as a way of looking at things:

You want the gurus. You might tell that you hate the gurus,
but you actively search for the gurus.

The people who are considered IM gurus don't even position themselves as experts.
They don't claim to be great at every technique they recommend you.
And for most of them they are not really experts.
They are successful because they mastered one or two techniques, not many.

Yet, if they recommend stuff their recommendation influences your buying decision a lot.
Nothing weird about that. But if you say you hate the gurus, you're in denial.
People who hate the "official" gurus find their own "little" gurus to follow the very same way.

How many times do you see questions like these on this forum:
"Who is good on (insert something IM here)?"
"I need a mentor on...."
"Who should I follow on ...?"
"Who should I listen to ...?"

When anybody recommends a product it's most often the name of the author, before the name of the product.

Even with exact science subjects (like "testing") you rather go with something
because "so and so" does it, not because the science tells this works better in your situation.

If you look at other industries, people ask slightly more questions about the actual product than in IM. Am I wrong?
#business #guru #internet #marketing
  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Originally Posted by milan View Post

    ...
    If you look at other industries, people ask slightly more questions about the actual product than in IM. Am I wrong?

    LOL... you hit the nail right here.

    Sure, Linus Torvalds wrote the original linux kernel -- but the product "linux" is what is sought.

    Bill Gates did the first licensing deal for DOS with IBM, but we really think of Microsoft.

    Companies outlive personalities.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tyson Faulkner
      There are more 'Gurus' popping up in the IM field all the time. I think this is also affecting other niches as well though.

      One of the best ways to make sales is to gain trust. And becoming a 'guru' in your niche gives you lots of credibility. I think it's something most people in sales are striving for. It just makes it easier when your audience knows who you are and that they can trust you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adaptive
    I think Robert Kiyosaki's "cashflow quadrant" idea is helpful here.

    A lot of Internet marketers want what he calls an S quadrant business, rather than a B quadrant business. S quadrant means you're a solo superstar, a freelancer. You don't have a boss between you and your customers. You also don't have a system or team in place that lets you keep making money if you have a day off.

    A B quadrant business is one in which you own the system, and other people do the work. That involves a longer term view, a more systematic approach, and leveraging the talents of others. Michael Gerber's "E Myth" approach is all about creating a B quadrant business that makes at least as much money whether or not you personally do another day's work.

    To complete the picture, the E quadrant is an employee who only makes money by selling their personal time in someone else's system, and the I quadrant is an investor who funds, but doesn't design, businesses where other people both create the system and do the work.

    I think of this with a musical analogy.
    E quadrant: plays a pre-written part in the orchestra.
    B quadrant: conducts the orchestra
    I quadrant: donates money to the orchestra
    S quadrant: lead guitar

    Now if someone has an S quadrant mindset, they are looking for ways to be a solo superstar. How better than to follow another solo superstar? Who does the lead guitarist want as a mentor - someone who can teach how to follow the conductor? to be a conductor? to fund a concert hall? No way! The only mentor worth having is someone else who can show you some cool chords and riffs and inspire you to create your own blazing solos!

    Regards,
    Allen
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    • Profile picture of the author milan
      Originally Posted by Adaptive View Post

      I think Robert Kiyosaki's "cashflow quadrant" idea is helpful here.

      A lot of Internet marketers want what he calls an S quadrant business, rather than a B quadrant business. S quadrant means you're a solo superstar, a freelancer. You don't have a boss between you and your customers. You also don't have a system or team in place that lets you keep making money if you have a day off. ...
      Allen, I think we misunderstood each other a little.
      For example, Mike Filsaime: he definitely has a business. He sells software made by programmers in his office, and he has no programming skills and knowledge (even if he wanted to help them he cannot, so no way he is a freelancer). He also has another office where they help him with marketing (I guess). But the point is his company is "Mike Filsaime Inc.". Also, nobody refers to the company Income.com, people say "John Reese". People don t buy Income.com products, they buy John Reese s products...
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    • Profile picture of the author TheAngelGuy
      Originally Posted by Adaptive View Post

      I think Robert Kiyosaki's "cashflow quadrant" idea is helpful here.

      I think of this with a musical analogy.
      E quadrant: plays a pre-written part in the orchestra.
      B quadrant: conducts the orchestra
      I quadrant: donates money to the orchestra
      S quadrant: lead guitar
      As someone who both writes the music for the whole orchestra (or band), and playes a wicked lead guitar, I can tell you that both are necessary for "total" success.

      After all, people listen for the song, but it's the lead guitarist who has the girls throwing their underwear at him. I don't know any songwriters who have groupies.

      (Conversely, though, I don't know many lead guitarists who can write worth a ding. And the composer/writer gets paid over and over, while the guitarist might just get performance royalties.)
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    • Profile picture of the author Kirk Ward
      This is one of the best descriptions I have ever seen. I guess I could have moved along faster if I had read Kiyosaki's book ... or would I? Maybe, I would have just understood the system better.

      Anyhoo, it is a great description or summary.

      Originally Posted by Adaptive View Post

      I think Robert Kiyosaki's "cashflow quadrant" idea is helpful here.

      A lot of Internet marketers want what he calls an S quadrant business, rather than a B quadrant business. S quadrant means you're a solo superstar, a freelancer. You don't have a boss between you and your customers. You also don't have a system or team in place that lets you keep making money if you have a day off.

      A B quadrant business is one in which you own the system, and other people do the work. That involves a longer term view, a more systematic approach, and leveraging the talents of others. Michael Gerber's "E Myth" approach is all about creating a B quadrant business that makes at least as much money whether or not you personally do another day's work.

      To complete the picture, the E quadrant is an employee who only makes money by selling their personal time in someone else's system, and the I quadrant is an investor who funds, but doesn't design, businesses where other people both create the system and do the work.

      I think of this with a musical analogy.
      E quadrant: plays a pre-written part in the orchestra.
      B quadrant: conducts the orchestra
      I quadrant: donates money to the orchestra
      S quadrant: lead guitar

      Now if someone has an S quadrant mindset, they are looking for ways to be a solo superstar. How better than to follow another solo superstar? Who does the lead guitarist want as a mentor - someone who can teach how to follow the conductor? to be a conductor? to fund a concert hall? No way! The only mentor worth having is someone else who can show you some cool chords and riffs and inspire you to create your own blazing solos!

      Regards,
      Allen
      Signature
      "We are not here to sell a parcel of boilers and vats, but the potentiality of growing rich beyond the dreams of avarice."

      Dr. Samuel Johnson (Presiding at the sale of Thrales brewery, London, 1781)
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  • Profile picture of the author mirabe
    It's true! Trust is the key.... how many ways are there to make money online tons! But with everyone having a sales pitch it's hard to trust and filter out the junk but what I've notice is that you can't go wrong with having your own adsense website. Whether you build it yourself or buy it straight out of the box like me
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  • Profile picture of the author Danjunior
    I really do not think that IM is an guru business.As long as one understands the concept of internet marketing almost anyone can do it.
    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
    Originally Posted by milan View Post

    You want the gurus. You might tell that you hate the gurus,
    but you actively search for the gurus.
    That's what the gurus want you to think.
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    Dan also writes content for hire, but you can't afford him anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author warlords
    warriorforum.com is from gurus, by gurus, for gurus.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Long
    There is certainly a lot of truth in that.

    But this is the way of the world, both online and offline.

    We have different names for it in different industries, but it remains the same.

    There was a cartoon once (it might have been South Park) where the city marched against the "Mega-Mart" and ran them out of town in favor of the "little guy".

    So what did they do next?

    They poured into the "little guys" store in such huge numbers that he eventually grew into a....

    Mega-Mart.

    The world is few of a few leaders, and tons of followers. It's taken me a long time to accept that, but it's true. What has been a key point of learning for me, is that its possible to be a guru, a leader, an authority (or an Article Bully ) in just about anything, no matter how large or small.

    All it takes is consistent, focused effort in a single field over a prolonged period of time. Get good at that one thing, provide great value, help others, and...

    ...voila! Your a 'Guru'.

    ~Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
      Originally Posted by Mike Long View Post

      There is certainly a lot of truth in that.

      But this is the way of the world, both online and offline.

      We have different names for it in different industries, but it remains the same.

      There was a cartoon once (it might have been South Park) where the city marched against the "Mega-Mart" and ran them out of town in favor of the "little guy".

      So what did they do next?

      They poured into the "little guys" store in such huge numbers that he eventually grew into a....

      Mega-Mart.

      The world is few of a few leaders, and tons of followers. It's taken me a long time to accept that, but it's true. What has been a key point of learning for me, is that its possible to be a guru, a leader, an authority (or an Article Bully ) in just about anything, no matter how large or small.

      All it takes is consistent, focused effort in a single field over a prolonged period of time. Get good at that one thing, provide great value, help others, and...

      ...voila! Your a 'Guru'.

      ~Mike
      Very true. If you're in a specific niche, and you're the only one that is consistently 'talking', then sooner or later you are 'THE' voice for that niche
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    • Profile picture of the author milan
      Originally Posted by Mike Long View Post

      There was a cartoon once (it might have been South Park) where the city marched against the "Mega-Mart" and ran them out of town in favor of the "little guy".

      So what did they do next?

      They poured into the "little guys" store in such huge numbers that he eventually grew into a....

      Mega-Mart.
      Hmm.. you know, when somebody promotes in IM niche and keeps saying "I am not a guru" or "I do not want to become a guru" I think the person is either:
      1) Not honest with himself/herself
      2) Not completely honest with customers
      3) Just using that as a marketing twist. To say "I am not like those people" (like the us and them concept).

      Yeah, more or less, everybody is a Mega-Mart business
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  • Profile picture of the author shan beach
    wow! this is so deep. as a business major in college, i was always perplexed why the professors didn't focus on the corporate trust factor as much as the corporate bottom line. in my opinion, without a customers tust, your company will fail!

    thanks for this thread - insightful!
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Adaptive,
      You also don't have a system or team in place that lets you keep making money if you have a day off.

      A B quadrant business is one in which you own the system, and other people do the work. That involves a longer term view, a more systematic approach, and leveraging the talents of others. Michael Gerber's "E Myth" approach is all about creating a B quadrant business that makes at least as much money whether or not you personally do another day's work.
      I agree that a B business is going to find it easier to earn bigger money than an S.

      But I disagree that all S businesses don't make money if you aren't there and 'neglect' them for a while. I purposely aim for passiveness and hands-free-ness and I have to give props to Robert G Allen whos cassettes introduced me to the 'zero employee/hands free/multiple streams' mindset many years ago.

      I'm most definitely an S quadrant person. I wish I was a B, as I would have more leverage, but it doesn't suit me. I find people complicated. I'm complicated. :rolleyes:

      So I use automation (as much as possible) and create sites and systems that gain ranking/traffic and maintain it - and although they wouldn't last forever without any maintenance, they'll certainly carry on as normal for a good few months without me having to lift a finger.

      Again - I don't deny that you can boost earnings exponentially by scaling from S to B, but I would rather have the lifestyle than the extra money - because the money only gets spent on lifestyle anyway, and I don't need ridiculous amounts to do my Cheshire cat impression.
      Signature


      Roger Davis

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      • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Again - I don't deny that you can boost earnings exponentially by scaling from S to B, but I would rather have the lifestyle than the extra money - because the money only gets spent on lifestyle anyway, and I don't need ridiculous amounts to do my Cheshire cat impression.
        Going from S to B gives you any lifestyle you want hands free...

        Though I agree you have to be true to your self. I once tried to make it corporate and I hated it. Pulled out on a snap decision, caused some heartache at the beginning with some recriminations.

        But ultimately both myself and the other pasrties are better off because of it.

        This business is ultimatly about lifestyle choices

        And Roger food for thought...

        By going to a B style business you can actually walk away from busines altogether either by selling or delegating it out and still live the life style you want.

        By staying an S your tying yourself to the job, because if you stop it stops and no lifestyle

        Robert
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  • Profile picture of the author Adaptive
    Hi Roger,

    It sounds like you've found a happy way to have a foot in both S and B worlds. In my original post, I forgot to mention that Tim Ferriss is a great example of that combination.

    Regards,
    Allen

    P.S. Congratulations on figuring out a great match between business and the lifestyle you like to have.

    P.P.S. Love the DLR quote!
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  • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
    Can I be a guru please?

    I already have a server that crashes regularly
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Robert,

      Thanks for the advice - I understand your point, although I'm not sure about the 'pastries'

      I guess I should clarify a little that my main point was not to suggest that going from S to B is a bad idea at all or that there aren't massive benefits, but just that if someone finds themselves as an S type, there are still many ways to automate and semi-automate things, and also to create sites that require minimal maintenance and promotion - therefore allowing them to apply little time to it, or take days off whenever they feel like it.
      Though I agree you have to be true to your self
      I agree. I hit a wall regularly when I try and push myself out of the comfort zone. It's dangerous to get too comfy, but it's also pointless going too far the other way just to keep yourself on your toes - why make things difficult? I guess it's a balance between learning new tricks but also doing a lot of what you are naturally good at.

      I guess that's why I chose the nickname I did, because for me my greatest achievement was getting out of that infernal rat race, because for me it was daily hell. Now I can control my environment and answer to no-one and have 100% choice about where and what I do - I can't see myself changing that for any amount of money. Life's too short to allow others to mess you around for kicks, waste your time and deny you your dreams and happiness.

      And the benefits of the S type lifestyle are seductive and addictive - empty diary, no need for a watch, barely any need for a permanent location, only friends ring the phone or knock the door - peace, tranquility and it seems like there are 96 hours in each day in comparison to rat race days, during which I couldn't wait for 5pm each day.

      So for now, S quadrant daunts me not, and I want to emphasize to people that if it's passive income people want, they're in the right place - they just need to seek as many ways as possible to create it and get busy (it's always going to take work at the start).

      Thanks again. Perhaps I will have changed my mind completely about S & B in few years time. I've always been a little wet behind the ears and I'm probably not about to dry up too soon
      Signature


      Roger Davis

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  • Profile picture of the author TerryTelford
    Hi Milan

    There is truth in what you're saying. I think we all want someone to look up to and follow at any level of growth. It's much easier to follow someone who's already got the formula than try to invent it yourself. The tricky part in the IM industry is separating the people who actually know what they're talking about and those that are only pretending.

    I just answered a question from someone on this forum wondering how to get more sign ups on his squeeze page and guess what his product was? A system for getting more sign ups and making more sales. LOL.

    I would suggest that everyone find a mentor, it's a faster way to the top than floundering around on your own

    Enjoy your day!
    Terry
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    • Profile picture of the author milan
      Originally Posted by TerryTelford View Post

      Hi Milan

      There is truth in what you're saying. I think we all want someone to look up to and follow at any level of growth. It's much easier to follow someone who's already got the formula than try to invent it yourself. The tricky part in the IM industry is separating the people who actually know what they're talking about and those that are only pretending.

      I just answered a question from someone on this forum wondering how to get more sign ups on his squeeze page and guess what his product was? A system for getting more sign ups and making more sales. LOL.

      I would suggest that everyone find a mentor, it's a faster way to the top than floundering around on your own

      Enjoy your day!
      Terry
      Terry, that mentor part is very smart. And is how I often think and do, and suggest other people do. (but I have to clarify that for example, for my article marketing I find a mentor who is more successful in article marketing than myself). But that also confirms that people search for/want/need the gurus and IM is a guru business (because we want it to be)
      That fake guru mentality also rides on the way that people search for/want/need the gurus
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  • Profile picture of the author Adaptive
    Allen, I think we misunderstood each other a little.
    I appreciate your clarification, Milan.

    If we divide the business into its component aspects - product development and distribution - then I think Kiyosaki's distinction is still valuable.

    Filsaime's and Reese's businesses are clearly focused on the content that those particular guys have to offer. The development side is S business, with those guys as the stars. The distribution side is B business, with some unknown number of operations people handling fulfillment, support, etc.

    Like a restaurant with a star chef and anonymously efficient waiters, the examples you gave are S design and B fulfillment... and I think that's where lots of Internet marketers aspire to wind up.

    Are we closer to understanding each other, or do see another way to look at it?

    Regards,
    Allen
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    • Profile picture of the author seemar49
      A Guru in any field is an authority figure who is respected. The trouble with this label in internet marketing is the ones earning the big money (not all of them by the way) have exploited human needs and wants of wealth in return for their own fortunes. They do this using desire which is a powerful tool. Is it ethical, Perhaps not as it is based around false promises. That's why internet marketing has a bad press just as direct marketing had before the internet was around.

      We are all on a timeline at the beginning of the internet revoulution that is struggling to control mass communication with only general guidelines in place. It will be a long time yet before there will be global rules protecting fraudulent claims by less than etihical marketers preying on the desires of lesser people.
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  • Profile picture of the author milan
    Allen,
    That's right, they're still the stars. At least, a couple of times per year.
    I think they are all passionate about doing that, they don't mind at all.
    They don't really have to do it this way.
    They could transition to 100% business, but they don't want to.
    If you look at Income.com, I think John Reese is trying to make the
    product/brand bigger than himself, but over a period of years or tens of years.
    Seems more like an escape plan for the future, if he gets tired of this later
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  • Profile picture of the author DotComBum
    You or anyone can be a guru or expert in IM niche to anyone who joined IM after you or have less knowledge in IM than you

    For example you just come to the IM scene, I for I have more knowledge than you, I can claim myself as a guru, so anyone really can be a guru
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  • Profile picture of the author Magic Johnson
    Isn't this just the 80/20 rule.

    Most people can't run a business and fail before
    their third year.

    People look to Gurus because they are clueless and really want
    a boss to tell them what to do.

    Some will stay long enough to get out of this mindset and proceed
    on their own to find their way to success.

    Though, most will not stay long enough and write
    it down as a failure.

    I used to follow Gurus in IM, there's some good gurus but most
    teachings could be found in a Book for $15 on Amazon's store.

    But it's easy to get caught in Hype and start to worship someone
    who seems to be the person you want to become.

    That's how I see it. Also there's many people making money
    in Internet Marketing but this fields are all difference.

    More or less most fields just call themself "Webmasters" or "Seo's"...

    This is how I see it.
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  • Profile picture of the author TiAndrine
    Interesting post but it really begs the question...

    What is a guru?

    What does using that word (symbols of symbols...at least twice removed from the "experience" it attempts to share) really mean to the person using it?

    That to me is the deeper question of this fantastic post.

    Anyone care to dig that deep with me?
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    • Profile picture of the author TrafficWhizz
      Its just part of human nature. People strive to be better than what they are. They are always looking up to whom is ahead of them. In this case its the Guru's, the people who have made something of themselves.

      But its not only IM that has it's guru's! Basketball, growing up i idolized Scotty Pippen & Michael Jordan, most people did. We some day thought that maybe we could be on the same plane as them.

      Guru's are an essential part to any business, i say go for it, like who you like, iits only because we are trying to make ourselves better!

      Cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author Adaptive
    They could transition to 100% business, but they don't want to.
    I think the software industry provides a good example. Both Microsoft and Oracle have had leaders who want to be known as superstars of business, although obviously thousands of programmers, sales people, etc. are involved in implementation. Bill Gates wanted to be known and respected as someone who is personally and expert in software creation. When the company needed to develop a new way to make software, he made himself Chief Software Architect of .Net. Nobody knows or cares whether or not Larry Ellison could program a grocery list today.

    Regards,
    Allen
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  • Profile picture of the author Adaptive
    What is a guru?
    Tim, in the Internet Marketing world, I take it as someone who's thought of as having a mindset and a technique worth following because they've proven it works. Once a guru is selected, their advice can be followed without having to stop to evaluate or second-guess each item.

    The appeal is following in the footsteps of someone who found a good path to the mountaintop. The risk is that just over the next hill, the footsteps lead into quickstand... or off the cliff.

    Regards,
    Allen

    P.S. Thanks for the nice note, I'll write back soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author Galactus
    Originally Posted by milan View Post

    Here is why IM is a guru business.
    Like it or not it's:
    When anybody recommends a product it's most often the name of the author, before the name of the product.
    For established "Gurus" they can get away with mundane "launches" too thats the advantage of reaching the top I guess.
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