PayPal Freezes Over 4 Million Accounts

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PayPal’s Ms. Hutchison (Senior Director for Global Risk Management) has been quoted in a few places stating that about 2% of all PayPal accounts have been frozen. Here's one place that quote is: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/02/te...users-say.html

As of 2011, PayPal manages more than 232 million accounts. So, what they are basically saying is that around 4,640,000 (2% of that) have been frozen at some point in time?

They should really think about it more before quoting numbers like "2%" - they think it sounds like a low number but in reality that's millions of accounts they have frozen.

I've been using PayPal for years and never had any problems with them personally, but I just thought these numbers were very interesting.
#accounts #freezes #million #paypal
  • Profile picture of the author 1millionaire
    I currently use Paypal and have for the last few years and I have only experienced them freezing my account once and all I did was call them and the problem was resolved immediately. I overall do not have any problems with Paypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    If the frozen accounts belonged to scammers, then more power to them.
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    • Profile picture of the author YasirYar
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      If the frozen accounts belonged to scammers, then more power to them.
      Yes, it can be that those accounts belong to the 'shady' once. Been using Paypal for years and am having no problems whatsoever.
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    • Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      If the frozen accounts belonged to scammers, then more power to them.
      The sad part is that 100% legit vendors can also get their PayPal account frozen if there's an unusual spike in volume (like a product launch, or an affiliate promo, etc).

      It happened to me....

      I've had my account frozen in the past and absolutely no scammy activity was going on. I just got a transaction spike due to an affiliate promo I ran. Trust me, it's NO fun when, in the middle of a promo or a launch, all of a sudden you cannot register transactions out of the blue.
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  • Profile picture of the author asiriusthoth
    Woah, that is quite a lot. I've been with Paypal (too loong!) and have never had anything like that happen before.
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    • Profile picture of the author operationoffers
      Not sure about everyone else but we had out account frozen 3 times. Here is what happened we received a payment for over 1000 and was originally given an excuse that all payments over a certain amount are flagged. Then we called back and was told our account was randomly flagged with no reason given. We called back again and were told there was a technical issue with several account then we tried one more time and were to that there was fraudulent activity associated with the account...well after 2 days and several threats if lawsuits they unlocked out account and apologized. Then did it all over again a week later with another payment. Their story constantly changes.. Their agents don't know what's going in most of the time and they openly lie. nothing but nightmares with this company. They are great if you don't run a business and only send and receive payments under 50 dollars. I still have three accounts which they never refunded money and never gave a legitimate reason. stay away
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      • Profile picture of the author CyberAlien
        Originally Posted by operationoffers View Post

        Their agents don't know what's going in most of the time and they openly lie. nothing but nightmares with this company. They are great if you don't run a business and only send and receive payments under 50 dollars. I still have three accounts which they never refunded money and never gave a legitimate reason. stay away
        Remember, not all the employees have access to all the information so they may not be intention lying and they definitely didn't make the decision to freeze your account. Just saying not to kill the messenger
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        • Profile picture of the author 1millionaire
          Hey all, these are all horrible situations no matter how you slice it. I found that if you are bringing in large amounts of cash through Paypal, you may save yourself some grief if you call to the credit dept. of Paypal and have your limits increased for transactions monthly and this may help.
          Good Luck,
          Pam
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          • Profile picture of the author CyberAlien
            Originally Posted by 1millionaire View Post

            Hey all, these are all horrible situations no matter how you slice it. I found that if you are bringing in large amounts of cash through Paypal, you may save yourself some grief if you call to the credit dept. of Paypal and have your limits increased for transactions monthly and this may help.
            Good Luck,
            Pam
            A lot of accounts that get frozen are already fully verified. For example, I had to send PayPal all types of info the first time I did over $20,000 in transactions within a single year.
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            • Profile picture of the author operationoffers
              Originally Posted by Chase Watts View Post

              A lot of accounts that get frozen are already fully verified. For example, I had to send PayPal all types of info the first time I did over $20,000 in transactions within a single year.
              Our account was fully verified with SS#, EIN #, Business License, DBA License. We spoke to them prior to starting the business & not just someone in customer service - but someone higher up - who said there was no issues they could see with our account or the way we were setting it up. We were 100% compliant with their TOS. They decided to limit our account due to a transaction we made to someone who had previously had another account permanently limited & thus they said we were linked to them. We have now made a policy of not keeping any money on PayPal - we only pay people using credit card that is on our account & do not accept payments with PayPal at all. This company relies on a computer program that searches the millions of accounts to flag for review - but once an account is flagged for review & the system decides to limit the account it is hard to get them to unlimit the account, as the system is what they used to make this determination. Basically meaning PayPal is controlled by a computer program & so the people on the phone can only do so much to assist you.
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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                I would be interested in knowing what percentage of users that 2% represents.

                I know that the percentage of accounts banned/blocked/nuked here is much higher than the percentage of actual users behind them.

                For example, when we went into the JV section and started nuking "questionable" accounts, the 12 or 15 most active all appeared to belong to a single person. That same person created new accounts and went into the classifieds section and tried to pull the same scams there. Sharp-eyed members spotted him and he got nuked there, too.

                All told, probably 2 dozen actively nasty accounts, all belonging to a single person. That's not an unusual situation, either.

                I couldn't begin to guess what the real numbers at Paypal would be, but I'd bet a very big chunk of that 2% are duplicates.


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              • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
                Originally Posted by operationoffers View Post

                They decided to limit our account due to a transaction we made to someone who had previously had another account permanently limited & thus they said we were linked to them.
                This is a major problem with PayPal. One way this works came directly from one of eBay's attorneys I spoke with a couple years ago:

                If eBay (PayPal) decides something John Doe uses PayPal to sell violates their terms or is simply a product the company does not like, such as a cookie stuffing script, John Doe will be banned from PayPal and also be subject to being banned from eBay.

                eBay will then review the transactions of everyone who bought the software from John Doe and also ban their accounts. In eBay's lingo, buyers are now "associated" with a previously banned account.

                The bans are not necessarily limited to those who bought the software, but could include other transactions with John Doe.

                The buyer then receives a notice of their termination due to a vague association with a previously banned account. The buyer has no clue what PayPal is talking about as they have personally not had a previously banned account. Unless they hire an attorney they likely never get an explanation, and their online business suffers.

                This is one reason Internet Marketers as a group can see a large number of bans. One person is like a virus who unwittingly causes many others to be banned.

                .
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    • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
      Originally Posted by Chase Watts View Post

      PayPal employees can see notes about customers in their dashboard. If your account is frozen for a reason, it tells the employee that reason. They then pass on that information to you because that's what they were told the reason was and they have no reason to think otherwise. They weren't the one that actually suspended the account nor would they have the ability to look into the issue anymore which is where the real problem is. The people you generally talk to on the phone can only pass on information they are told by others, they aren't the actual investigators or decision-makers.
      then it should have been the same story each time.. but it wasn't, so it sounds more like they just picked something out of the blue each time that sounded good.

      Originally Posted by fixie View Post

      Other paypal alternatives are getting more and more popular, I just can't wait for a permanent replacement of paypal.
      Originally Posted by Chase Watts View Post

      You've got awhile to wait for that
      I don't use paypal at all for business any more.
      Also - to a lot of people if you only offer paypal it shouts "I'm small time". right or wrong, I've had several friends and clients mention this.
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      • Profile picture of the author 1millionaire
        I beg to differ, I don't think it shouts small time at all, I don't see making thousands of dollars from the comfort of your home small time by no means. Paypal just happens to be one of the payment options that I use and I also accept credit cards through another 3rd party merchant. I believe in making it as convenient as possible for my customers.
        Have a good one
        Pam
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  • Profile picture of the author rmolina88
    Mine was frozen 2 times last year and I was able to resolve the problems both times without incident.

    It's still a crappy feeling, though.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
      When my account was frozen, I was put through a reinstatement process that required me to provide a significant amount of information, from my social security number to supplier invoices. I had very few eBay feedback problems or Paypal claims in my history prior to the freeze, and the whole thing seemed very arbitrary. It also didn't seem like any action was taken after I provided them all this info until I called them again trying to move things forward. At that point they did unfreeze my account, but it was a lot more hassle than I have ever been put through by a bank.

      At this point, although I use Paypal, I would never want to run a business that depends on Paypal for its existence in any way.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sue McDonald
    I have only ever had my account frozen once and that was when I was in the US and decided to transfer some funds into Paypal with the bank account that was connected to Paypal.

    When I went to use the money the account was frozen - when I asked them why they said I had to prove I was laundering money. It was a few hundred dollars and I said it came from the bank account connected to you. I had to wait 6 weeks till I got back to Australia because they wanted a copy of my passport and drivers license but I had let the license in Australia. It took another few days to get them to release the funds. Really inconvenient.
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  • Profile picture of the author manicmethods
    I had my Paypal account frozen due to a sudden increase in income. I phoned them up and it was all sorted within 24hrs. There's a lot of bad press about their support but I found it prompt and their staff were effective.
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    • Profile picture of the author mwright
      Originally Posted by manicmethods View Post

      I had my Paypal account frozen due to a sudden increase in income. I phoned them up and it was all sorted within 24hrs. There's a lot of bad press about their support but I found it prompt and their staff were effective.
      I agree. My experience with PayPal support has always been very positive.

      Someone I know even alerted PayPal before a product launch because they expected a sudden spike in income. Everything went smoothly.
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  • Profile picture of the author CindyPink
    maybe the accounts were inactive anyways thats why they are frozen. i dont think they will freeze an account with no valid reason. you can create a hundred account with the same given name but with a different surname. maybe thats why they froze some accounts.
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  • Profile picture of the author Worthen
    I run 30k to 50k $ a month through with no problems. Back in the 90s before eBay bought it was when it was a nightmare for me. I don't have troubles now. Am starting a new project and thought i would scope out getting a second account (not allowed it seems).

    The new project is selling digital product and might be problematic. Most of my transactions now are paying affiliates via masspay etc, so there's not tons of transactions like there would be selling to individuals. Will take some study.
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    • Profile picture of the author CyberAlien
      Originally Posted by Worthen View Post

      Am starting a new project and thought i would scope out getting a second account (not allowed it seems).
      You can have multiple business accounts if you have multiple EINs.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    I had my account "paused" for logging into my paypal account from brazil. But it was fully resolved after i showed them my credentials and that it wasn't compromised.
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    • Originally Posted by Randall Magwood View Post

      I had my account "paused" for logging into my paypal account from brazil. But it was fully resolved after i showed them my credentials and that it wasn't compromised.
      I had the same problem my paypal was frozen for loggin in from East Europe
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      • Profile picture of the author 1millionaire
        I have had thousands of dollars to go through Paypal, including for 2012 and I think I may have had two or three freezes on funds one was my customer's error and one was clearly someone who had actually Hacked into my Paypal account (logged in) and tried to withdraw my funds and for whatever reason was unsuccessful. Paypal requested that I immediately change my password to account and problem was resolved in a matter of minutes and account was restored before I got off the phone. Paypal has it's issues, but as the previous comments stated, if they weren't so widely used and trusted, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It can definately be inconvenient, but I personally thank Paypal for being as stringent and cautious in their process with all the scam and fraud that is out there especially with me experiencing it first hand. Paypal does handle their business when they need to. Definately better safe than sorry.
        Pam
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonBennet
    I have my accounts frozen 2 times and I have to go through many troublesome process to get my account activated back again. Now I will try to draw out my money whenever it has reach a certain amount.

    Not wise to leave a lot of money inside the PayPal as they might frozen my account overnight.
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    • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
      Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

      When my account was frozen, I was put through a reinstatement process that required me to provide a significant amount of information, from my social security number to supplier invoices. I had very few eBay feedback problems or Paypal claims in my history prior to the freeze, and the whole thing seemed very arbitrary. It also didn't seem like any action was taken after I provided them all this info until I called them again trying to move things forward. At that point they did unfreeze my account, but it was a lot more hassle than I have ever been put through by a bank.
      this was my experience as well.. in the meantime my business collapsed, my car was repo'd, etc.. all during which pay pal was holding onto tens of thousands of dollars of mine

      Originally Posted by Chase Watts View Post

      Remember, not all the employees have access to all the information so they may not be intention lying and they definitely didn't make the decision to freeze your account. Just saying not to kill the messenger
      actually, that IS intentionally lying. If they don't know why, but make up a reason, they are lying.
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      • Profile picture of the author CyberAlien
        Originally Posted by jasonl70 View Post

        actually, that IS intentionally lying. If they don't know why, but make up a reason, they are lying.
        PayPal employees can see notes about customers in their dashboard. If your account is frozen for a reason, it tells the employee that reason. They then pass on that information to you because that's what they were told the reason was and they have no reason to think otherwise. They weren't the one that actually suspended the account nor would they have the ability to look into the issue anymore which is where the real problem is. The people you generally talk to on the phone can only pass on information they are told by others, they aren't the actual investigators or decision-makers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
    I never had any problems with Paypal, but that number is alarming. I imagine the bulk of those were scam accounts.
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  • Profile picture of the author adetunji
    That'll be bad if those accounts belong to legit online business men
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  • Profile picture of the author Gengis
    I've had a few issues with them freezing my paypal account throughout the years but luckily it has always been resolved pretty quickly.. Within a couple hours or a day..

    I've never done $10k a month on paypal or a pretty big # like that though so maybe that's why but i hope to be there some day and it would suck to go through some of the horro stories i've read about them..
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  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    2 percent is a fantastically high number in and of itself. No wonder so many people hate PayPal. But the actual number is much worse.

    Start with 100%. Then deduct all the accounts that are never used. Then deduct all the accounts that are barely used. Then deduct all the accounts used to send a few bucks to family members. I'm guessing those accounts do not have issues.

    That 2 percent suddenly got a lot higher.

    Essentially, using PayPal is a high risk endeavor.

    Then, what percent of accounts in the "Internet marketing" field have been frozen?
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    • Profile picture of the author CyberAlien
      Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

      Then, what percent of accounts in the "Internet marketing" field have been frozen?
      That's what I'd love to see. It would be great to know what percentage of IM-related accounts that made over $1k/month have been frozen at some point in time.
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  • Profile picture of the author MartinPlatt
    What I think is really bad in these cases is that, there's no bad end to it for PayPal.
    I haven't ever had any problems with them, but if this happened, I'd want to complain about it, if it did ever put me in a situation where money was tight.

    There should be a watchdog to stop this from happening to innocent people, or companies get a black mark against their name. If they get a lot, they get a fine, or something.

    Might make them sharpen up their game.

    So what else would you use, as PayPal seems to be almost on par with credit cards?
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  • Profile picture of the author writeaway
    That is crazy. However, considering their volume, I am not surprised at all.
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  • Profile picture of the author fixie
    Other paypal alternatives are getting more and more popular, I just can't wait for a permanent replacement of paypal.
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    • Profile picture of the author CyberAlien
      Originally Posted by fixie View Post

      Other paypal alternatives are getting more and more popular, I just can't wait for a permanent replacement of paypal.
      You've got awhile to wait for that
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  • Profile picture of the author CBusiness
    I & associates have had about 10 paypal accounts frozen

    no scams. if anything, I lost omney b/c paypal's 'buyer protection' and 'seller protection' failed me in multiple instances.

    I have various ways I can get accounts with them but honestly have moved on to 3rd party services.
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    • Profile picture of the author CyberAlien
      Originally Posted by CBusiness View Post

      I & associates have had about 10 paypal accounts frozen

      no scams. if anything, I lost omney b/c paypal's 'buyer protection' and 'seller protection' failed me in multiple instances.

      I have various ways I can get accounts with them but honestly have moved on to 3rd party services.
      Reopening accounts because others have been frozen is clearly a valid reason for them to freeze them lol
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    I would have thought the figure was bigger than that.

    I have no problem with that figure because having your account frozen is generally part of the growing process with your Paypal account.

    If they were NOT freezing accounts that had abnormal activity, then I would be worried.

    The fact is we use Paypal to accept payments because so many of our customers trust and use Paypal also. If Paypal were not so strict in their rules then there would be a lot more fraud on their network and less of our customers would trust it as a payment option.
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  • Profile picture of the author rajeevsh
    1 in 50 doesn't sound too high, considering how popular PayPal is. It's terribly difficult to put together good fraud protection systems in place, and though PayPal doesn't do a great job of it, or the communication, I can see why they are so aggressive with their policies.

    I read somewhere, a month or so ago, that they are working on their policies for freezing accounts, etc. this year (i.e. 2013). I think that their new CEO (David Marcus) has been pretty good in this aspect, too. There was a case of someone on twitter (I think @goodonpaper) who got his PayPal account frozen and then that was reversed. The entire process was very interesting.
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    • Profile picture of the author CyberAlien
      Originally Posted by Sandakelum View Post

      So it's me and 4,639,999 other scammers
      At least you don't feel singled out
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    • Profile picture of the author 1millionaire
      TheDanBrown,
      It is good you have not yet had any issues and whose to say that you ever will, hopefully you won't. Overall I feel that Paypal is a pretty good services and definately serves it purpose.
      Good Luck,
      Pam
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  • Profile picture of the author Colin8ch
    As a processor that's an aggregator grows larger (like PayPal, ClickBank, 2checkout, Plimus...), they become less accepting of risk. You see evidence if this all the time when they freeze funds/ suspend accounts without warning or suddenly stop accepting sellers with specific types of products.

    Unfortunately one of the more common causes is that the seller has actually had some success, or launched a new product and their sales volume has spiked, raising a red flag and causing the processor to "investigate".

    This isn't going to change or get any better, thats one of the reasons why we built merchee.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zack Sprague
    I use to do free websites to get free money through paypal. It's been awhile since I have used paypal and my paypal account is limited due to the fact that an off shore seas bank account tried accessing my account trying to withdraw over $300 dollars from my account when I never linked a bank account before with my paypal account ever! I am telling yall the truth. But I want my paypal account back so I can use it for Internet Marketing ( accepting commission payments from various affiliate networks ) What should I do? I would have to give them my ssn and bank account info though?
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  • Profile picture of the author cephla
    It's news that like this that freaks me out at times. Just imagine waking up to a mail from Paypal informing of your account being shit. Dayam!

    P.S. Since I'm in India I suffer from some of the worst restrictions Paypal has concocted. Sigh. The short end of the stick I guess.
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  • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
    How about the innocent ones that got caught up in the fight, that is what bothers me most.
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  • Profile picture of the author yakim1
    I had my account suspended back in 2004. It cost me a membership site. I was doing something wrong on my sales letter. I advertised a 2nd tier commission, which was a no, no,

    After removing that info from the sales letter my account was reinstated. However, I lost all my subscription payments for the membership site.

    It was my fault. One cure for that would be to not take your customer directly to PayPal to pay. Take them to an intermediate order page where the order is confirmed.

    This way when PayPal radomly checks the pages that send customers to PayPal to pay, they only get to see the order confirmation.

    Even though they have frozen my account and have suspended several individual sales from time to time, I have build my business model around PayPals Adaptive API with parallel and chain payments.

    I'm currently waiting for approval of a chain payment Application ID. This is a very nerve racking period because I don't want to be denied. This process takes about 15 days and I only at the half way point.

    During the development of my software I think I have talked to people at PayPal every week and we are now starting to know everyone on a first name basis.

    You need to just follow the rules as best you can and don't log into your PayPal account if you are out of the country. After all your account should have as your bank account as a backup. So take care of things before you leave the country. You can check things out after you get home.

    Take their contact phone number with you and call for assistance. Don't login.

    Use your head, just how many people say they got into trouble logging into their account when out of their country?

    They are one of the best known by the public to pay. If you are not taking PayPal as an option, you may be leaving money on the table.

    Best regards,
    Steve Yakim
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  • Profile picture of the author OnPagePro
    Kindsvater makes a great point about association and being suspect with out evidence. If you have an ongoing e-comm concern you should step away from Pay Pal as your sole source of shopping cart provider. Since they are not a bank they are not subject to banking laws. Hence your rights are granted and limited by them as they see fit in the agreement you digitally signed when creating the account.
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