Marshall Wayne: Confessions of a Marketing Bad Ass

by VegasVince 15 replies
Several months ago I discovered this dude on Face Book. He has an almost magical aura about him and is among the most brilliant branding experts I've ever seen. His following on FB is almost scary in terms of engagement. Recently he posted one of the better, thought provoking rants I've read: It will make u think:

Unedited below:

CANDID CONFESSION: Back in college, I walked in on my girlfriend having sex with one of my best friends.

It was horrific. It was truly one of the first times I felt that I'd been ****ed over…pun intended for story purposes coming up.

Even though the image hung in my mind, and ate at me for awhile, I moved beyond it.

However, as bad the image was to me, it hung with them for much longer. Both of them, individually would apologize profusely, over and over, for years.

Long after I'd not even cared anymore.

It allowed me to realize that the person who gets screwed over isn't the person who loses the power. There is a transfer of karmic energy that occurs when such an event happens.

It's uncanny.

Fast forward to today.

I give the impression, on Facebook, that I make my living doing branding work for big name entrepreneurs.

That is highly untrue.

Here are some shocking statistics of what I've earned in my currency business versus what I've been paid by 'gurus' in the internet marketing world.

Currency Business: I've personally sold $9 million worth of my own products and services. If you include the dealers who came to me, whose businesses I set up, branded, etc….that figure soars far beyond.

There is hardly an Iraqi Dinar note being sold as an investment in the world today that I don't have some peripheral connection to.

Internet Marketing: $10,000 in 3 years.

Every person you have ever seen that I've done work for has either not paid me, or paid me so little that if you factor in my time versus what they paid, I would have done just as well working at McDonalds.

Why is this?

I let them pay what they think I'm worth.

These people make their living trying to figure out how to get the most money they can from people, while paying the least they can to people they hire.

(Some of you may consider that smart. I'll show you here why it's not.)

So when presented with an offer to pay what they think I'm worth, they can't help themselves.

It's like dangling meat in front of a lion.

They can't understand why I'm doing so. It short circuits their wiring.

In their mind, they can't imagine that a person has a larger goal than the immediate money gained from them, so they assume they are able to fleece an unsuspecting "designer".

I'm not a photographer.

I'm not a videographer.

I'm not a graphic designer.

I have become an expert in those areas, because I use my brain.

I care about creativity.

What I am is an absolutely ruthless entrepreneur, and I'll take years to go about crafting an image to get to a goal that I'm working towards.

The best way that I've found to own someone is to let them not pay you for hard work.

Even though it's a disease they can't control in the moment, their humanity takes over in the long run, and eats at them.

Last year, I worked for a few weeks on a huge launch for a famous infomercial personality.

Again, I allowed them to pay whatever they thought I was worth.

The emails about my work, from him, and the rest of the team, were the following:

Damn Marshall this is REALLY good!


I just came.

I came twice... My gf will not happy with you this evening Marshall with my lack of interest in her

These were emails from the team after I sent them the first finished launch video.

Seeing these responses, and knowing that the launch was somewhere in the neighborhood of $1 million, would lead you to believe that I must have been well compensated.

Zero Dollars.

Now, any of you reading this know that when I put something out, I don't **** around. I am a very serious human being.

Even when I know that I'm going to either be short-changed, or not paid, that doesn't change the fact that I'm still going to be me, and I'm a guy who has worked very hard for everything he gets in life, and gives the same respect to others that do as well.

That infomercial personality emailed me just over a month ago.

He needed a favor.

You know how hard he had to gravel to ask for that favor?

It was painful to watch it happen.

I've been seeing that more and more.

I've been quietly rising up the ranks in this market, without putting out a product, a service, or anything that is normally used to gain a foothold.

More of them are coming back.

They see that they made a poorly calculated mistake.

I'm hearing, "Hey, man. Aaaaahhhhh, that work you did for me...I really appreciated that. I'm sorry about you getting paid so little (or not paid). That's just wrong. I don't know how that happened……."

Graveling 101.

Moral: Be kind to people. If you need something from someone, don't try to finagle the lowest price. Business isn't a game. It's real life, with real people.

Pay what that person is worth. Just because you can negotiate the lowest rate, doesn't mean you should. That person has dignity.

And more importantly, they have hard earned talent that you don't have.

Have respect. Marshall Wayne

Peace, Vegas Vince
#main internet marketing discussion forum #bad #confessions #marketing #marshall #wayne
Avatar of Unregistered
  • Profile picture of the author goldbear
    Hard to reply to that. Only to say it is so well put. It stands on its own. Thanks
    Dr. Mike

    This is my website, I think you'll like it!

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7772798].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author drmani
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7772857].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Shelly9
        Can't we all just get along?! I am an artist and I can't tell you how many people would be happy to "let" me work for free. Like they are doing me a favor! "Here you can paint this for no pay and I will let you! Then I will tell everyone that you did it and how generous you were so that you can continue NOT to get paid!"
        I remember once I read something about the rules that a kindergartner is taught about life in general. It was called "all I really need to know I learned in kindergarten":
        Share everything.
        Play fair.
        Don't hit people.
        Put things back where you found them.
        Clean up your own mess.
        Don't take things that aren't yours.
        Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.
        Wash your hands before you eat.
        Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.
        Live a balanced life - learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some.
        Take a nap every afternoon.
        When you go out in the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands and stick together.
        Be aware of wonder. Remember the little seed in the Styrofoam cup: the roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that.
        Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die. So do we.
        And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books and the first word you learned - the biggest word of all - LOOK.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7772958].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan

    Good to see you posting, man. Love those interviews you did with Glenn Osborn (the NLP copywriter, for those who don't know). Hope you're feeling good.

    Thanks for the story. I would never let people "pay what they want." Budget is one of the three keys of Fit between buyer and seller, and it goes back to self-esteem. If you show up to the table with 100% of your problem-solving ability, like your friend did, and the prospect shows up with 25% (or 0%!) of the money you expect, and you take them on as a client, how are you always going to feel about that client?

    And whose fault is it?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7772957].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author VegasVince
      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post


      Good to see you posting, man. Love those interviews you did with Glenn Osborn (the NLP copywriter, for those who don't know). Hope you're feeling good.

      Thanks for the story. I would never let people "pay what they want." Budget is one of the three keys of Fit between buyer and seller, and it goes back to self-esteem. If you show up to the table with 100% of your problem-solving ability, like your friend did, and the prospect shows up with 25% (or 0%!) of the money you expect, and you take them on as a client, how are you always going to feel about that client?

      And whose fault is it?

      Thanks Jason......always had fun doing those Glenn Osborn interviews. For the record the thoughts shared are Marshall Wayne's not necessarily mine. I discovered him on Face Book many months ago simply due 2 the fact he has an almost scary ability to attract people and engage them via various branding methods. Very cool dude.

      I'll be interviewing him this Sunday re his currency trading biz.

      Continued Success 2 all......

      Stay Legendary, Vegas Vince
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7776374].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author shane_k

    Well if you read what this guy is talking about it seems like he has a strategy and a purpose for "allowing" people to pay him what they think he is worth.

    Seems to me this guy really understands the psychology behind this tactic and what can result from that.

    Although I think a huge determining factor is for the reason that this works for him (where it might not for others) is that he can produce results!

    He produces results, and then these clients want more of what he had to offer, but now they are realizing that he is worth alot more than they initially paid if, (if anything at all)

    Think about that.

    Imagine if you paid someone to do something, and afterward you realized that they were worth way more than what you paid them.

    How would that affect how you approached them a second time?

    and yea you could say well if I was able to pay him peanuts the first time, I will be able to pay him peanuts again. But, that would only work with someone who doesn't know or understand what they are worth. and it appears that his guy does.

    Now imagine how powerful what this guy is doing is

    he knows what he is worth

    he is demonstrating that he can produce amazing results that get his clients salivating and groveling when the come back to him

    he has a long term plan to craft an image to get to a goal that he is after

    and he has people who feel they are in his debt, and want more of what he has to offer

    I am willing to bet that soon his next phase will be to suddenly increase his prices exponentially and tell people that if they truly want the kind of results he can produce they are going to pay his prices.

    Seems like long term positioning to me
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7776618].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ronrule
    Eh, I dunno man... there's one glaring point here that seems to be getting overlooked: he already made $9 million trading currencies. It's easy to stand on a soapbox and tell people they should give more when your own house is in order.

    It's like when a celebrity starts a charity; they get millions of dollars in donations and help a ton of people, but it's only because they already had the notoriety and means through other income streams. You won't find very many running around saying "Everyone should start a charity" because the vast majority don't even get enough in donations to pay the founder a salary.

    I can totally identify with what he's saying, and do the same thing myself to some degree... I only sell one of my strategies, but there 47 others that are available to anyone who takes the time to read them. I've been a talking head on cable business news, interviewed in Forbes and CIO Magazine, and get at least 2-3 reporter inquiries a week which I always try to respond to. So yeah, I get the whole notion of trading your time for publicity.

    But take it with a grain of salt, because this model only works to sustain credibility - not build it. You'll go broke if you try and build it this way.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7776694].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
      Originally Posted by ronrule View Post

      Eh, I dunno man... there's one glaring point here that seems to be getting overlooked: he already made $9 million trading currencies. It's easy to stand on a soapbox and tell people they should give more when your own house is in order.
      I thought about that, too.

      If he was dead broke or struggling, I'm thinking he would change his pricing model.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7776797].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Alpha123
    Do you have a link to his facebook page?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7776724].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Publisher1953
    Ahh, generosity and value. Some thoughts to add to the puzzle.

    I contracted with someone on Odesk for website maintenance and updating after we paid US-based developers about $1,000 for a reasonably simple wordpress retemplating. The Bangladeshi guy asked $1.00 an hour. I've raised his pay to $1.25. Did I pay too much in the U.S. and too little to the Bangladeshi? No, I think. The guy in Asia is happy for the work -- and he will see his income rise; the developers in the U.S. are within our regional market area and can see, feel, and know the market's characteristics (and we only needed to pay them once, for the rights to do whatever we wish with the design.)

    I spend about three to five hours a week volunteering on the Google AdSense help forums. Pay $0.00. But sometimes I help a few people, and after a rather harrowing experience with a nutcase who tried to get my account disabled, ended up as a moderator or Top Contributor. AdSense income: About $50 to $75 a month. Credibility value: Immense (especially useful for my offline business.)

    Much of my working time -- and that of my company's salespeople -- is spent on voluntary community service activities. They have no "sales quota" for this work -- but they certainly have a time quota -- at least 25 per cent of their time. We volunteer, help out with marketing and advertising (free) write newsletter articles, and more. Does this stuff "work" -- of course it does, our current and potential clients know and trust us; and see us as having a larger purpose than the money-grab. So they buy lots more without much selling at all.

    It is easy, as others have noted, to be generous when you have a lot. When you don't have so much, you can still be generous, yet you don't need to give up your life quality and frugality. So last summer, I used airline points and sat in those luxurious big seats in the front of the plane and landed in Zimbabwe -- where I had lived several decades previously. I carried just a few hundred dollars in my moneybelt and gave it to a community that perhaps didn't need the money as much as others but still could use it. The community leader told me: "We have people in town here with piles of cash, who won't spend a cent. Your contribution is truly appreciated." But I wasn't starving.

    Money and value, generosity and selflessness, all are within our reach. We don't need to sacrifice frugality to be fair. My company's North American employees (who are paid fairly, and receive benefits) don't mind one bit my decision to use a $1.00 an hour Bangladeshi (and more of that sort to follow) because the added quality/resources helps them to do their work better. And we enjoy the fruits of the reciprocity principle by allowing generosity to be a fundamental part of our business strategy and model.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7776788].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Marc Rodill
    Great share. I really like it. Of course, as other people way more smarterer than I have already pointed out, it will only work for him because of three things: He can produce totally bad ass results, he doesn't need the money, and he cherry-picks out his highest value his clients, resulting in their obvious future need for similar ongoing work.

    Now, this strategy would totally suck with a bad prospect, ie. with a client who isn't actually producing results (and therefore has np real reason to hire him), or someone without the financial ability to pay him what he's worth later on. Imagine he created an informercial video for a client who never ran the damn thing? But then again, as you probably already know, selling anything sucks when you have bad prospects for what hyou offer.

    The cool part is, anyone can put themselves in a similar position within their chosen market, with a little design and strategic planning. There's no reason this won't work for anyone. But it's definitely not an overnight strategy. First of all, what you deliver has to be on fire. People aren't going to feel indebted to you for work that blows. Which means getting good and paying your dues.

    So in summary, it's just like Dan says. (I should get a shirt that says What Would Dan Do?) Never do anything for free... unless... you have a carefully crafted, well-thought out, specific strategy for doing so. And you're totally bad ass at what you do. Otherwise, doing work for free sucks. Especially if the free work you deliver sucks. So guess what? You might as well charge for it to pay for your education!


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7776901].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author VegasVince
    Originally Posted by drunkenmonkey View Post

    Some chicks find that pretty lame.

    Maybe that's why she cheated?

    Ahhhh u might think so.....but Marshall attracts more women then a lot of them
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7778464].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TTGT
    It's good to know there are a few real people like you out there Marshall. But you know if you give more than you get the rewards will be reciprocated ten fold, keep being yourself and stay real. Kudos.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9140911].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author IanGreenwood
    Because we all live (most of us anyway) in a capitalist society the big givers always get most kudos and gain most - in terms of publicity - from their giving. However the little guy or girl, who's on minimum wage, makes much more of a sacrifice giving a few dollars than a multimillionaire makes flying half way round the world to do "free" work for a charity.

    I would've been much more impressed if Marshall Wayne had never made this post, and never told everyone on FB about his "pay me what I'm worth" experience. But then, no one would have learned about it, and he would never have gained the kudos of making the post. So although he didn't make any money from his hugely successful branding exercise, he still managed to milk it for all it was worth in terms of using it as a branding exercise for himself on FB.

    Do I blame him for that? No, not at all. We all live in a capitalist society and... well, just what I said before. :-)

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9141124].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author greenowl123
    Very good post and I truly wish that more people had a conscience that would act more fairly to their fellow human beings.

    This part stood out to me : "their humanity takes over in the long run, and eats at them."

    Maybe in some people... but sadly, I could introduce anyone interested to about 5 people I know personally who have no humanity or conscience at all. One of those "persons" still owes me 500 bucks I lent him more than 10 years ago (I know I will never get it) but feels justified in not paying me back 1 cent. Luckily, I am doing just fine without that $500, but it still angers me that he never attempted to pay it back.

    For some odd reason, I have MUCH less problems with people online in business / financial matters than with people Off-line.

    Go figure...
    Free 40-page eBook "How To Earn With CPA Offers"
    + 14 Free Traffic Training Videos -
    Click here now. (no opt-in required)

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9141256].message }}
Avatar of Unregistered

Trending Topics