40 replies
Well I'll make this quick and simple. I've never had a refund, rather it's affiliate marketing or during my seminars. Here's why, people in general don't want their money back when they know or have a real reason beyond trying to make money. In other words what I do is I get personal with the crowd that I talk to and there are no sales that are made without a 1 on 1 conversation. They need to feel like I need their money as much as they need to make money. These two things are the rhythms of marketing. People believe in you more when you exert the energy to them that you believe in what you're doing. Passion about your craft.

If I were to sell something online I'd want the person to contact me first and talk about it. In my sells video I would give examples and let them know what they are buying is a course on education. I don't want people to buy because I can make more money, I want them to buy because they believe in the potential and certainty that it will give them the results that they want.

Usually people give refunds because they believe YOU didn't give the value of what you promised but if you look above you'll notice that if they get to a certain sense of awareness and certainty where they can feel this before they buy then they won't refund; this is because they will now feel it's a personal issue that they didn't succeed but I assure them that they will succeed by telling them "If you haven't succeeded in 30 days we will have a 1 on 1 phone conversation where we'll discuss how we can get you to your financial goals.

The other key is to make sure whatever you're selling is valuable as you say it is, because when it comes to 1 on 1 you'll need to set down some examples. It usually turns out that this person doesn't have enough energy, drive, time or money to invest into what they have bought. Which is fine because as long as you delivered on what you promised.

In case you're thinking... Yes I do collect cell phone numbers and I market to them through there phones very smart. I write down what product they bought from me and what is the difficulty level of that product and if they succeeded or not. If they haven't, what I'd do is...

One day in the future I'll message them and ask how they are doing and maybe present them a course that will be much less difficult and for those who have taken action and succeeded what I'll do is the exact same thing and present them something that is a little more advanced like just a 1 on 1 with me. The more passionate they are the easier it to convince them on what they need to become more educated.

I always tell people, "the more educated you are in your craft the more confident you are; PERIOD"

I hope this helps.

Daniel Brown - PAL
#refunds
  • Profile picture of the author khooster1
    You are a nice honest chap.

    There is always refund no matter how great your product is.
    Even the best marketers will face refund.

    Nothing much to boost about.
    Nothing shameful when there is refund.
    As long as you are providing great value, you will do fine.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7812280].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author dannygnenerate
      Originally Posted by khooster1 View Post

      You are a nice honest chap.

      There is always refund no matter how great your product is.
      Even the best marketers will face refund.

      Nothing much to boost about.
      Nothing shameful when there is refund.
      As long as you are providing great value, you will do fine.

      This is education you can look at whatever faucets you'd like to focus on. I've never had one refund EVER. SO there's nothing to be shame about and when I do get a refund I know as we all know it's a part of business but it does not have to be. How many people rent movies and get a refund back little to none right? It's about how that person is approaching his business model. Boost about? Don't get this confused with what other marketers are soaking you with. You have social media sites and then you have Facebook, being outside of the box is the best way to see what's in it.

      But you are definitely right value is one of the most important thing next to the person giving, presenting the value.

      As long as people think there has to be refunds then they will never strive to find a way to limit or eliminate them. Education is key to modeling your beliefs, not only about business but your approach to it's mechanics.

      Thank you for responding, each conversation helps all of us to just understand more perspectives.

      Daniel Brown - PAL
      Signature

      "How To Get Clients Begging To Pay For Your Services... And Close More Deals FAST!" Get Clients Now

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7812317].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    If you've never had a refund then you're not doing enough volume. Unless you're in a niche that has unique characteristics. What niche or market are you in?

    RoD
    Signature
    "Your personal philosophy is the greatest determining factor in how your life works out."
    - Jim Rohn
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7812334].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author dannygnenerate
      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      If you've never had a refund then you're not doing enough volume. Unless you're in a niche that has unique characteristics. What niche or market are you in?

      RoD
      Does products that involve internet marketing have enough volume? Or is his approach different to the typical marketer. The niche doesn't have a unique quality, it's the presentation of the content.

      Think Quick : Hot girl or Scruffy guy?

      Easy one right? Most men will think hot girl, most probably wouldn't even reason with themselves to choose which one or to ask "what am I choosing for"? One has to realize that people are vulnerable to things that they don't understand and curiosity can draw inspiration. Presenting the unknown isn't a bad thing and this is the reason we're here to educate them.

      See your first thought was "not enough volume" and I say "it's not about volume. I don't care about who doesn't buy I only focus on people who want to buy the same way I will encourage people to not buy if they are not fully ready to take action. But yes with a bigger volume of people will come refunds and I'm prepared for whatever happens. I do big numbers but in small increments. Being personal is a key in my model.

      I hope this brings some clarity.

      Daniel Brown - PAL
      Signature

      "How To Get Clients Begging To Pay For Your Services... And Close More Deals FAST!" Get Clients Now

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7812451].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
        Originally Posted by dannygnenerate View Post

        Does products that involve internet marketing have enough volume? Or is his approach different to the typical marketer. The niche doesn't have a unique quality, it's the presentation of the content.

        Think Quick : Hot girl or Scruffy guy?

        Easy one right? Most men will think hot girl, most probably wouldn't even reason with themselves to choose which one or to ask "what am I choosing for"? One has to realize that people are vulnerable to things that they don't understand and curiosity can draw inspiration. Presenting the unknown isn't a bad thing and this is the reason we're here to educate them.

        See your first thought was "not enough volume" and I say "it's not about volume. I don't care about who doesn't buy I only focus on people who want to buy the same way I will encourage people to not buy if they are not fully ready to take action. But yes with a bigger volume of people will come refunds and I'm prepared for whatever happens. I do big numbers but in small increments. Being personal is a key in my model.

        I hope this brings some clarity.

        Daniel Brown - PAL
        Partially disagree with you. I've done large volumes of sales across of wide variety of markets, niches, and sub-niches. Being personal is great, but in the real world if you have a refund policy, you are going to get them no matter how great your product or service is.

        Again, your content may be great, but if you're not getting refunds, you're simply not doing any significant volume. So pardon me if I'm skeptical that you're not getting any refunds. If that's true then you're not doing volume, no matter how great your content is or how personal you are.

        RoD
        Signature
        "Your personal philosophy is the greatest determining factor in how your life works out."
        - Jim Rohn
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7813541].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Malcolm Thomas
    As others have already stated, generally you will have refunds no matter how awesome or valuable that your product is.

    Refunds is simply a cost of doing business.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7812507].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author dannygnenerate
      Originally Posted by Malcolm Thomas View Post

      As others have already stated, generally you will have refunds no matter how awesome or valuable that your product is.

      Refunds is simply a cost of doing business.
      Great to hear, and as I've stated above, I haven't had a single one. Awesome is irrelevant and valuable is a given but it just seems like most people have such linear minds to not think outside the box, as if they are forever programmed to only see what they have been taught. Read some of my earlier posts. I've made more money than most people on here will ever make in their lives and it's because I know what I'm talking about and you know what's even better? I know what you're talking about too. I'm all inclusive... Think people! We know that in business there are refunds just like in life there is death; in which one is inseparable from another.

      Read the education don't judge it by the parameters of what you don't yet grasp because if you took up a training from me or the people I've been mentored by none of you and I mean none of you will see things like a typical internet marketer ever again. It's about being realistic and optimistic without inserting pessimism. In other words, what's the point of pointing out what you guys point out about refunds? I believe we're all smart enough to know that refunds are a part of business, But it does not HAVE to be. Think now...

      When I make sales I don't think... Hmmm I wonder when I'm going to get a refund?

      What if you are new to internet marketing and you make 50 sales and no one refunded. Naturally that tells you what? You don't have to have refunds to have a successful business.

      I really hope you all can at least grasp the outer edges of this spectrum of what I'm talking about. We are all each other's resources don't rain on something that can't get wet, it's self defeating.

      Daniel Brown - PAL
      Signature

      "How To Get Clients Begging To Pay For Your Services... And Close More Deals FAST!" Get Clients Now

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7812565].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author J Bold
        Originally Posted by drunkenmonkey View Post


        Every post in this thread is gibberish to me, your not making sense?



        Rod Cortez got it square on the nose, if you don't get refunds then your not doing volume.

        It's "you're" not "your." Yes, I am being anal and I make typos all the time.

        He's been very clear about why he doesn't get refunds. It's obvious. It's because he sells in person. One-to-one. And he offers great service. He's not selling stuff online. It's a completely different selling medium and for him, he's found that it leads to a lower refund rate, and in his case, a zero refund rate.

        If I remember correctly, he does seminars where he sells to people in person. Think I've seen this in his other posts.

        I don't really see the need for anyone to argue here. Just accept that everyone has a different viewpoint and experience from your own.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7813817].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
          Originally Posted by J Bold View Post

          He's been very clear about why he doesn't get refunds. It's obvious. It's because he sells in person. One-to-one. And he offers great service. He's not selling stuff online. It's a completely different selling medium and for him, he's found that it leads to a lower refund rate, and in his case, a zero refund rate.
          Yeah, everyone's jumped on the "I get no refunds" when I believe the point is to highlight that by being personal with your customers and offering a solution to their problem you can reduce refunds and have better customers.

          Another point I got from Daniel is that a customer is more likely to refund if they aren't entirely clear on what they're buying. Remove doubt and ambiguity and coversions may climb while refund rates should drop.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7814021].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author dannygnenerate
        Originally Posted by drunkenmonkey View Post

        Pardon?

        ^I've read that about 5 times and I still don't get your point?

        Ok your either just about to launch something or you don't "understand your own parameters" of logic to paraphrase.

        Every post in this thread is gibberish to me, your not making sense?

        This is the third person in as many days who has said they don't get refunds.

        I get refunds every single day. NOT one day goes by that I don't get a refund as SUCKY as that is.

        Now either I'm doing it all wrong or there is a Gene with a great big ass F'ng lamp out there that 3 people have found (apparently) that nobody else can find.

        One guy does (apparently half a billion in annual gross sales) with a ZERO refund rate and the other seems to think 7 figure vendors on clickbank have a 1% refund rate AND she knows that because some dude on posted it in 2008, apparently Clickbank release that information which er, they don't in todays world.

        Oh ooohhhhh...oh, oh, but apparently she said they WILL give me that info over the phone...so you know...

        Clickbank won't release prime data online, but if you ring them up, they'll tell you? hmmm yes?

        And now YOU don't get any refunds because of your self proclaimed "Awesomeness"?

        If being awesome by itself reduces refunds then I must be frikking FANTASTIC!!!

        Rod Cortez got it square on the nose, if you don't get refunds then your not doing volume.
        You've read it 5 times and still don't get the point? It's education, with education the only point is to learn. Before I hit my first $10,000 online I use to listen to people like you who would go and talk crap on another persons post then I realized after making what I make now that, it really doesn't matter what you say. I'm not here brag or anything and if you read my earlier threads, you'll see that I'm very clear on what I do.

        I see that you say you get refunds every single day, well that's great for you. If more refunds to you mean a better business then scale it up and find a way to get more refunds. You're looking at the wrong side of the moon here.

        No, there's no genie here, only human logic. Also, how come you talk as if you know these things for a fact? Have you ever made over $100,000 in a year from selling (presenting)?

        As I said above, yes refunds are a natural part of business "natural" but look at what parameters refunds come under. Look, research these things please. You seem like a smart guy that has been locked in a box and it's sad but... I'm not mad about your post because it just lets me know that I like where I stand even more now. It feels good to bask in knowledge that people are afraid of. I use to wonder "how come everyone isn't financially free"? But people make it clear that, not everyone is ready and they respond sporadically to the energy that makes millionaires. Trust me it's ok to sometimes look at information, read it and leave if it's not for you. Be a business man not a man swallowed by pessimism from things he doesn't understand.

        I hope you can read this one time and understand it.

        You seem like a great, opinionated guy, good luck and as always I'm here to help you and anyone else willing to listen.

        Daniel Brown - PAL
        Signature

        "How To Get Clients Begging To Pay For Your Services... And Close More Deals FAST!" Get Clients Now

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7815939].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Originally Posted by dannygnenerate View Post

    In other words what I do is I get personal with the crowd that I talk to and there are no sales that are made without a 1 on 1 conversation.

    If I were to sell something online I'd want the person to contact me first and talk about it.

    Daniel Brown - PAL
    You have explained the difference why you had no refunds.
    Customers are less likely to ask for a refund after a face to
    face encounter. It's the anonymity of the internet that allows
    people to ask for a refund so easily.

    -Ray Edwards
    Signature
    The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7812641].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author David Michael
    Great post

    There are methods that one could apply that I have been using with great success to completely eliminate refunds. For example, custom orders or prototyping.
    Signature
    Traffic Automation Solutions
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7813364].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author David Michael
      Originally Posted by drunkenmonkey View Post

      Yeah, fair point I have to say. That's the exceptions.

      There are many, many more...

      When was the last time you asked for a refund at a gas station for filling up a tank?

      Become a resource to a market.
      Signature
      Traffic Automation Solutions
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7813470].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author David Michael
        Originally Posted by drunkenmonkey View Post

        Well actually I have once.

        I put Petrol in my Dad's Diesel once. Hhahahahaha!

        I never did get that refund.
        Well you did ask so I'll give you that.

        Unless a product is defective I don't see any reason to expect or build in a refund rate into products.

        Another example or industry with zero refund rates are Real Estate and Lawyers.
        Signature
        Traffic Automation Solutions
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7813533].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author petelta
    Quick way to eliminate refunds... don't offer them.
    Signature
    TEESPRING Student Rakes In Over $116k In Less Than 3 Months
    Niche Pro Profits - How I raked in OVER $120k in 9 months with authority niche sites...

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7813414].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author higherluv
      Originally Posted by petelta View Post

      Quick way to eliminate refunds... don't offer them.
      You get less sales that way. Having a guarantee does increase refunds (up to a certain point, depending on what the guarantee is and how you actually promote the product), but you'll earn more...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7813561].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author David Michael
        Originally Posted by higherluv View Post

        You get less sales that way. Having a guarantee does increase refunds (up to a certain point, depending on what the guarantee is and how you actually promote the product), but you'll earn more...
        That is a blanket statement and not applicable to all industries. How many Lawyers offer a money back guarantee?

        Does eBay offer the seller a refund or money back guarantee to list items?

        Be careful there are many industries without this type of scheme.
        Signature
        Traffic Automation Solutions
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7813623].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Jacob Padget
          Yes. It seems to me that something very unsurprising has happened. In the microcosm of internet marketing, as with all things in life, people will agree on something and then take that as the unequivocal truth. Popularity of opinion is not truth. This covers whatever accumulation of training, mentoring, teaching or experience that you may have experienced throughout your lifetime. The most successful people - not the middle-class professional type of person - does not take the approach of "this seems to be how it is, and therefore, I will believe that it is" with the important things. That will only ever earn you medicority. The most successful of people search out the truth until either they get it or they admit that they're never going to get it and also admit to themselves that they have not got it.

          Immanuel Kant said something along the lines of, there are those who have workman's wisdom, and believe that they understand life based on "common sense". Above them, are those who use popular philosophy and figures of speech - slightly heightened versions of "common sense" - to impress the "workman" category. And then, there are those who look down upon all "common sense" and see popular philosophy for what it is: the sharing of opinion, in no way obligating the truth. I couldn't be in the latter category if I just took this quote as the truth because Immanuel Kant said it was so. But, I do agree with it, and it illustrates my point.

          And, my point is, to summarise, do not allow experience or textbook opinion to cloud your judgement. Think about the real potential of whatever area of life you're in, study it as impartially as possible and keep working towards the truth. And, if you don't understand a word I've just typed, that's absolutely fine: there's one more person who I won't be competing with.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7813716].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
          When your customers start asking for refunds and you are able to handle them by explaining or giving more value then you can consider yourself experienced.

          .
          Signature
          Use Feeder Sites, Articles, And Social Media Sites To Generate Unstoppable Traffic, FREE! Click Here Now To Get It For FREE
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7813858].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author petelta
        Originally Posted by higherluv View Post

        You get less sales that way. Having a guarantee does increase refunds (up to a certain point, depending on what the guarantee is and how you actually promote the product), but you'll earn more...
        At a certain point, earning more isn't the only factor in your business. Offering no refunds won't hurt conversions that bad when you've built a brand and a following. It also eliminates a big hassle, a customer support cost, and can clean up a buyer's list with people who really want to be there.

        It depends on how you want to run your business really. I personally offer refunds, but I know others who don't and it's not hurt them.

        Here's a direct quote from one of the Incansoft creators, BigMike, in an earlier post:

        "I've tried and tested a "No Refund Policy" for years now and it's never had a measurable impact on sales...period.

        No, that's not quite true - it stopped a lot of sales from serial refunders and tire kickers, saving me a lot of time and aggravation."
        Signature
        TEESPRING Student Rakes In Over $116k In Less Than 3 Months
        Niche Pro Profits - How I raked in OVER $120k in 9 months with authority niche sites...

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7813683].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author David Michael
          Originally Posted by petelta View Post

          At a certain point, earning more isn't the only factor in your business. Offering no refunds won't hurt conversions that bad when you've built a brand and a following. It also eliminates a big hassle, a customer support cost, and can clean up a buyer's list with people who really want to be there.

          It depends on how you want to run your business really. I personally offer refunds, but I know others who don't and it's not hurt them.

          Here's a direct quote from one of the Incansoft creators, BigMike, in an earlier post:

          "I've tried and tested a "No Refund Policy" for years now and it's never had a measurable impact on sales...period.

          No, that's not quite true - it stopped a lot of sales from serial refunders and tire kickers, saving me a lot of time and aggravation."
          Good info and applicable to the automated lifestyle. The only support request of any business should come in the form of "how do I become a reseller of your product?"
          Signature
          Traffic Automation Solutions
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7813759].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author cshilling22
          Originally Posted by petelta View Post

          At a certain point, earning more isn't the only factor in your business. Offering no refunds won't hurt conversions that bad when you've built a brand and a following. It also eliminates a big hassle, a customer support cost, and can clean up a buyer's list with people who really want to be there.

          It depends on how you want to run your business really. I personally offer refunds, but I know others who don't and it's not hurt them.

          Here's a direct quote from one of the Incansoft creators, BigMike, in an earlier post:

          "I've tried and tested a "No Refund Policy" for years now and it's never had a measurable impact on sales...period.

          No, that's not quite true - it stopped a lot of sales from serial refunders and tire kickers, saving me a lot of time and aggravation."
          Even if you have a no refund policy you are still at the mercy of chargebacks so if people really want their money back they are going to get it.

          Obviously this will be reduced if you offer value and deliver on what you promise.

          Having a no refund policy may prevent some people from buying, or prevent some people from asing for a refund, but there really is no way to ensure that no one ever receives their money back if they really want it.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7813976].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Farish
            Originally Posted by drunkenmonkey View Post

            Yeah, I didn't want to sort of comment on that per se because as Mike owns Incansoft he is pretty Hard-Core in terms of Volume, so if that works for him then so be it.

            That being said, I bet he gets slammed with chargebacks.

            Although I think he uses Paypal, which explains a lot, because if I had non-refund policy I know I'd get smashed with chargebacks.

            My refund rate is about 30% sometimes it goes to 35%, I've already written that off in my head every month because I just give a refund as soon as it gets requested.

            I've had about 2 Chargebacks in a year.

            One was one woman, who bought a Manual and DVD set, she requested a refund 3 months outside of of the 30 day period.

            I was STILL going to refund her, I asked her to return the Manual and DVD's which she did.

            But when I looked at the Manual, she had Highlighter penned every single page, and I do mean literally EVERY page.

            She then had the audacity to tell me she had not watched the DVD's, despite the packaging being absent and she also told me she had not been into to the members area, which I know for a fact she had because it was logged.

            I denied the refund, she then filed a Chargeback, her Credit Card company queried it to me on the phone, I provided them evidence and she STILL got her Chargeback.

            Bottom line is, if a customer wants their money back, they're gonna get it no matter what.

            Refund guarantee's are not really worth the paper they are written on, the only purpose they serve is that my sales bump right up with them than without them.

            I'm talking me personally, I've tested it.

            I could'nt offer a non refund guarantee anyway, because if my Merchant saw too many of them (chargebacks), they would shut my account.

            And I don't want that, it was an absolute mission to get a Merchant account in the first place.
            I like to add to this. Most Credit Companies will only give you 90 days of refund protection.

            I have a feeling in your situation, it is because you took the items back after the 90 days that allowed her to get the chargeback. If she had an email stating from you that yes I will do the refund just ship back the items, it probably worked in her favor.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7814149].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author David Michael
              Originally Posted by drunkenmonkey View Post

              It would have worked in her favor anyway, she knew what to say to them.

              In the UK you can still successfully pull a chargeback 3 years later, which sucks.

              "make em pay by moneyorder/cheque (hint, hint)"


              Yeah, when I used to use Infusionsoft I had a Cheque option. Out of say every 100 sales 5 might be a cheque.

              I don't have Cheque's as an option anymore for reasons I'm not going to say here.

              But I get what your saying.
              Yeah I understand, that is why I stated only for products in the $1000 plus range.

              And not for stupid ebooks or online courses that cost $999, real tangible products or services that are above the thousand dollar threshold.
              Signature
              Traffic Automation Solutions
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7814208].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author David Michael
            Originally Posted by drunkenmonkey View Post

            Yeah, I didn't want to sort of comment on that per se because as Mike owns Incansoft he is pretty Hard-Core in terms of Volume, so if that works for him then so be it.

            That being said, I bet he gets slammed with chargebacks.

            Although I think he uses Paypal, which explains a lot, because if I had non-refund policy I know I'd get smashed with chargebacks.

            My refund rate is about 30% sometimes it goes to 35%, I've already written that off in my head every month because I just give a refund as soon as it gets requested.

            I've had about 2 Chargebacks in a year.

            One was one woman, who bought a Manual and DVD set, she requested a refund 3 months outside of of the 30 day period.

            I was STILL going to refund her, I asked her to return the Manual and DVD's which she did.

            But when I looked at the Manual, she had Highlighter penned every single page, and I do mean literally EVERY page.

            She then had the audacity to tell me she had not watched the DVD's, despite the packaging being absent and she also told me she had not been into to the members area, which I know for a fact she had because it was logged.

            I denied the refund, she then filed a Chargeback, her Credit Card company queried it to me on the phone, I provided them evidence and she STILL got her Chargeback.

            Bottom line is, if a customer wants their money back, they're gonna get it no matter what.

            Refund guarantee's are not really worth the paper they are written on, the only purpose they serve is that my sales bump right up with them than without them.

            I'm talking me personally, I've tested it.

            I could'nt offer a non refund guarantee anyway, because if my Merchant saw too many of them (chargebacks), they would shut my account.

            And I don't want that, it was an absolute mission to get a Merchant account in the first place.
            make em pay by moneyorder/cheque (hint, hint) eliminate the automation of credit cards and automate you driving to the bank depositing cheques and moneyorders.

            Any item over $999 should be purchased by those two methods.
            Signature
            Traffic Automation Solutions
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7814176].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author higherluv
            Originally Posted by David Michael View Post

            That is a blanket statement, and not applicable to all industries.
            The original topic was regarding US (IM'ers). We are not lawyers, nor ebay.

            Originally Posted by David Michael View Post

            How many Lawyers offer a money back guarantee?

            Does eBay offer the seller a refund or money back guarantee to list items?

            Be careful there are many industries without this type of scheme.
            This is correct, but... caution here.

            I'm afraid that IM'ers may look upon the luxury that professionals (doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc) and ebay have and say, "if they can do it, why not we!"

            IM'ers may not enjoy the same foundation that these are people do...

            Originally Posted by petelta View Post

            At a certain point, earning more isn't the only factor in your business. Offering no refunds won't hurt conversions that bad when you've built a brand and a following. It also eliminates a big hassle, a customer support cost, and can clean up a buyer's list with people who really want to be there.

            It depends on how you want to run your business really. I personally offer refunds, but I know others who don't and it's not hurt them.

            Here's a direct quote from one of the Incansoft creators, BigMike, in an earlier post:

            "I've tried and tested a "No Refund Policy" for years now and it's never had a measurable impact on sales...period.

            No, that's not quite true - it stopped a lot of sales from serial refunders and tire kickers, saving me a lot of time and aggravation."
            True, the brand and following in well-established business does make a difference since such businesses have been known generally by many people before they decide to buy from them. They can perhaps get away without implementing a refund policy.

            Many netreprenuers on the other hand are virtually unknown until the instant a would-be buyer lands on their site. In these cases I would hate to see what huge of an impact a zero refund policy would have on sales as opposed to having a huge guarantee where the serial refunder thing, buyers' list and customer service tradeoff may not even matter at that point.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7814248].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author David Michael
              Originally Posted by higherluv View Post

              The original topic was regarding US (IM'ers). We are not lawyers, nor ebay.



              This is correct, but... caution here.

              I'm afraid that IM'ers may look upon the luxury that professionals (doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc) and ebay have and say, "if they can do it, why not we!"

              IM'ers may not enjoy the same foundation that these are people do...
              Internet marketers, if you are referring to affiliate marketing, then yes they should expect refunds or chargebacks on affiliate commissions as they really have no say in the refund policy of the products they promote, however the make money online business is no different than an ebay or a Lawyer, or an Exporter in that there are methods and ways not to build refunds into their model.
              Signature
              Traffic Automation Solutions
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7814292].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author higherluv
                Originally Posted by David Michael View Post

                Internet marketers, if you are referring to affiliate marketing, then yes they should expect refunds or chargebacks on affiliate commissions as they really have no say in the refund policy of the products they promote, however the make money online business is no different than an ebay or a Lawyer, or an Exporter in that there are methods and ways not to build refunds into their model.
                Again, I agree. And again, we need to be careful ... of course there are ways to dispense with the refund policies if marketing your own products with the appropriate merchant. Just sayin' it may not be the best interest for almost all IM'ers.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7814322].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author David Michael
                  Originally Posted by higherluv View Post

                  Again, I agree ... of course there are ways to dispense with the refund policies if marketing your own products with the appropriate merchant. Just sayin' it may not be the best interest for almost all IM'ers.
                  I know I just don't want others to be discouraged with the threat of chargebacks or refunds.

                  One way would be to not charge for ebooks/software, freely offer them, and charge for support/service to implement the techniques in the product
                  Signature
                  Traffic Automation Solutions
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7814349].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
                  Originally Posted by higherluv View Post

                  Again, I agree. And again, we need to be careful ... of course there are ways to dispense with the refund policies if marketing your own products with the appropriate merchant. Just sayin' it may not be the best interest for almost all IM'ers.
                  You're making generalizations regarding refund policies and conversion rates and now also what is not in the best interest for "almost all" IM'ers.

                  Unfortunately you have nothing but assumptions and speculative data to go on. There are MANY vendors who have chosen to get rid of all refund policies and conversions actually increase. Of course the opposite is true for anothing MANY vendors who have kept or implemented a refund policy.

                  Your blanket statements regarding conversions and what is best for almost all IMers is not helpful and provides misguided advice.

                  The only advice for any IMer in this regard should be to TEST what increases not just conversions, but specifically business profits.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7815463].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mikelmraz
    You haven't had a refund because I never purchased your product
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7814015].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kikolani
    I've only had to give maybe five refunds out of 350 sales of my first eBook which I think isn't too bad. While I would have preferred zero, I've had good experiences when communicating with the buyer who wanted their money back. It was good to get the feedback of what they wanted, much of which I can add to future revisions of the content.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7814321].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    I've never had to refund any ebook, only twice for reasons that were not related to the content – the first time my site was new and problematic and the buyer delayed to receive the book and cancelled for this reason. I fixed the problems and never had this problem again. I had to refund another ebook because the buyer was not aware that it was a digital product. That’s it. Besides these two times, I have never had to refund any ebook, but my field is mental health, it’s not internet marketing. And I have never counted all the ebooks I’ve sold since 2007…

    I'm talking about my own ebooks. I don't promote affiliate products.

    People like to find New solutions. If you'll sell products that really help them solve their problems thanks to new practical methods they will be extremely grateful forever, and they will purchase more products from you.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7814463].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author dannygnenerate
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post

      I've never had to refund any ebook, only twice for reasons that were not related to the content - the first time my site was new and problematic and the buyer delayed to receive the book and cancelled for this reason. I fixed the problems and never had this problem again. I had to refund another ebook because the buyer was not aware that it was a digital product. That's it. Besides these two times, I have never had to refund any ebook, but my field is mental health, it's not internet marketing. And I have never counted all the ebooks I've sold since 2007...

      I'm talking about my own ebooks. I don't promote affiliate products.

      People like to find New solutions. If you'll sell products that really help them solve their problems thanks to new practical methods they will be extremely grateful forever, and they will purchase more products from you.
      Thank you for posting this, I really hope more people understand this and grasp what you're saying.
      Signature

      "How To Get Clients Begging To Pay For Your Services... And Close More Deals FAST!" Get Clients Now

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7815945].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JasonBennet
    No matter how good the product is, there will be refunds. Besides knowing that the merchant will be providing lots of good values and content, the next important thing that I think the merchant should focus on is the sales conversion. If the numbers of sales is much more then the number of refund, it will be a good sign because it shows that the majority of the customers are happy.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7814476].message }}

Trending Topics